Alzheimer’s Is Optional

Heather Sandison, ND

Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Sharon Stills

My pleasure. So, many people probably know who you are already, but for those who don’t, maybe just tell us a little background of how you got so involved with Alzheimer’s and brain and all of that good stuff.

Heather Sandison, ND

So really this work found me. I think a lot of people assume that I had a grandparent or a parent who had dementia, that’s not actually the case. I feel very fortunate that that isn’t part of my genetic makeup. And this work is so compelling to me because there’s essentially unnecessary suffering happening in the world. I have watched patients reverse their severe dementia too many times to not want to tell everyone about it. So my very first patient who I saw with dementia was soon after I was trained by my mentor, Dr. Dale Bredesen and I was very skeptical of his approach. It made common sense to me, it made sense to me having a naturopathic background, you know, we’re naturopathic colleagues, and so we come from that perspective that the body has the innate ability to heal, that it’s a complex system, and that we need a solution that matches the complexity of the disease, right? 

It’s not gonna be a one pill kind of solution. And so Dr. Bredesen was talking in these terms, he’s a medical doctor, he trained at Duke, I believe, and he’s been a researcher for a long time. But what he found was that when we can stack these things, in biohacking speak, right, where we can stack things on top of each other, they start to work together and we get these, more than the sum of the parts, right? We get these really virtuous cycles of healing in the brain. And so hormones are one component of that. So my first patient who I’ve ever saw, I was very skeptical that something would happen, that she would get better. She had a MoCA score of two. So for people who aren’t familiar with MoCA scores, perfect is out of 30. And you do this worksheet where you draw a clock and you copy a box and you follow patterns and you count back by seven from 100, and you go through these, these different kind of brain quizzes. 

And then we get a score at the end. So hers was a MoCA of two, very severe disease. And I did not think that, because I had been told, I’m sure as you were by many well meaning, very intelligent people, that there was nothing you could do for dementia and to suggest otherwise would be to do a disservice, would really to do harm ’cause you were giving people false hope. Well, when I saw her six weeks later and she had a MoCA of seven, and she was a completely different person, my first thought was like, did we do something wrong? Did we measure it wrong last time? And like, what is this? It didn’t compute for me. And then when I realized like, no, this is working and then I saw it with several other patients, like how do you not commit yourself to like changing the narrative is my work in the world to tell people that there is hope for dementia. 

Now of course I would way rather prevent it than have to treat it, and we have the most success, you know, even people with measurable cognitive declines. So when they have MoCA scores below 24, so they have measurable decline, but they’re in the 20s still, that is when we have the most confidence. So my message more than anything else, like if you take nothing else away from our conversation is that if you are starting to notice or if a loved one around you is starting to notice that their brain doesn’t work the way it did five years ago or 10 years ago, that is the moment to get help and that we have so, so much more confidence, much less expensive, much less work, you take fewer supplements. There’s lots less going on when we can do it at that stage versus waiting until your MoCA is a two or even like a 16.

Dr. Sharon Stills

Prevention, prevention is always the best cure. But sometimes we are not in the preventative state. So there’s hope for everyone, but it’s definitely, I was talking about this yesterday, how it’s so important that those of you watching this, share this with the younger people in your life. Because if we just get the knowledge in our brains that, wow, there’s something we can do. Like Dr. Heather is saying, we were taught, oh, there’s nothing you can do. But if we can change that narrative, even in the younger ones, so they just have a little seed planted. So as they grow, if they see a problem, they know, well, I don’t have to follow that old narrative, I’m going with this narrative. So I love that, of course. And so for the women listening, we talk so much about bioidentical hormones and the importance, I mean, I say this all the time, it’s not just to get rid of your hot flashes or to drop a few pounds, but that there’s so much power in the prevention of chronic illness, such as breast cancer, osteoporosis. And of course Alzheimer’s among other things. And so could you speak to the women who are here listening and whether they’re already noticing brain fog or forgetfulness or they aren’t, what would you have to say to them?

Heather Sandison, ND

Yeah. You know, my feelings about hormone replacement have really shifted. And I think the consensus is also really shifting, with this women’s health initiative study that came out, I’m sure you guys have talked extensively about that, it was really, I think, taken by the media out of context. There was a lot of misinformation that was spread after that. And there’s still an immense amount of confusion about the difference between bioidentical hormone replacement and things like oral estrogens that are non-bioidentical, which is unsafe, right? Like there are components and ways of getting hormone replacement that are unsafe and do not make sense. So when we talk about women and Alzheimer’s, women are affected by dementia, much, much more than men, they have two times the risk of developing dementia in their lifetime than a man does. And then they’re also affected as caregivers. So women are much more likely to become the caregiver for someone who has dementia than a man is, and then caregivers. So in addition to being female and having risk, caregivers are two and a half times more likely to develop dementia in the course of their lives because it’s so inherently stressful to care for someone with dementia. 

So, you know, when you start adding all of that up, it’s women, this is a women’s disease. And Maria Shriver is somebody who puts a lot of effort into this conversation and bringing light to this. But I think that part of the reason, if this were a male disease, then there would be, I think not that there isn’t a lot of research, but maybe more thoughtfulness into how we do the research and what’s going on with the hormones. Another component of this is traumatic brain injuries put us at very high risk for dementia, and this gets a bit morbid. And so bear with me for a minute here. It makes me emotional to even like have this conversation, but I also wanna shed light on it is that women are more likely to be victims of domestic abuse, and domestic violence and repeated traumatic head injuries. There’s a ton of research about what happens to combat veterans. What happens to professional athletes who have repeated TBIs, but not to women who are, and right, there’s a lot of stigma around it, but there’s this massive part of the population who are suffering with cognitive decline because they’ve had repeated trauma, both emotional abuse, like physical trauma and emotional trauma. And then when it’s combined with asphyxiation, so if you’re being suffocated at the same time that you’re getting your head slammed against a wall, and then plus we have no idea what the effects, it seems like there is an effect of having, being in different parts of your cycle. 

So if your progesterone is high and that happens, it’s a different outcome if you’re in like your luteal phase or your, of course I’m blanking, but if you’re ovulating or if you’re in your luteal phase or like, or if you’re having your period right at that time, so your follicular phase, excuse me, that’s the word I’m looking for. I’m not word, we’re finding issues, right? So this conversation is like, there’s so little research around that. And then, you know, women don’t get the help they need because people don’t realize like, oh, the reason you can’t move out is because you are suffering with cognitive decline. Like I just moved recently, it is so overwhelming to move. And if your brain isn’t working right, then of course, you’re not gonna be able to like, do the work of moving out of your home with this like violent person potentially. 

So I know that this isn’t exactly the question that you were asking, but it’s this massive gap in the research. And then when we talk about kind of more the majority of the population, right, who doesn’t suffer from domestic violence, but who is approaching menopause and considering, should I get on hormones? You are absolutely right. Like, I have seen too many women, so many women who are thinking like, oh, I just have to like get through this menopausal transition that’s absolute torture and my brain is never gonna work the same or maybe it’ll work the way it used to in 10 years. But now that I don’t have the estrogen and progesterone in my brain, like this is just my new normal. And that’s okay, you do not have to accept that. Like you do not have to suffer, there are very, very safe options for you. And of course, I always recommend somebody work with a trusted provider to do that. This is a conversation around, you wanna be comfortable with the risks and benefits and knowing what to look for and knowing what to test and how to test it. I know you give great advice about the way that you do it, I do it slightly differently. Every doctor has their way of doing it. But working with someone who you trust, where you can have the thorough conversations about how to work through that and how to do it in a really safe, effective way is important. And no, you do not have to just grit your teeth and get through it.

Dr. Sharon Stills

Amen to that. Yes. Suffering and menopause. We’re breaking that train thought. Menopause is not related to suffering around here. It’s related to growth and new sacred act and good things. And yes, feeding your brain with the right hormones is a game changer. Because when I think about my patient population, which is largely populated by women who I’ve helped through the transition and are post-menopausal for years and years now, sometimes you just get removed because I’m so used to working with them. And they’re so sharp and they’re doing amazing things in their 60s and 70s. And I’m like, you are just aging backwards. And so that’s why we’re doing this to remind you all that that is not something you need to say okay to, and if you are suffering from domestic violence, then please you can seek help. And we know we’re not gonna give proper due to that topic, but that you deserve better. And there are shelters and there are ways to, to get yourself out of that situation. So I am glad you, sad topic, but something that is real.

Heather Sandison, ND

With the brain work that I do, treating traumatic brain injuries is certainly something that we do a lot of, because it’s so associated with dementia. And there are things that you can do for that, right? It’s not as simple as don’t fall asleep, you might have a concussion, we NAD+ and contrast oxygen therapy, phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylserine, high dose fish oils, methyl B12. There are formulas for functional neurology with chiropractors. There are so many things that we can do to reverse traumatic brain injuries as well, even decades later. So it’s much easier to do, in those first like 18 months after the injury, but there is still healing that can be done decades later. So again, don’t follow. Like I just reject the narrative completely that there’s nothing that can be done for traumatic brain injuries, that there’s nothing that can be done for dementia, I’ve just watched over and over again people heal.

Dr. Sharon Stills

So you just answered the question I was gonna ask, but I’m just gonna ask another question for someone listening. So say you’ve had a concussion, does having had a concussion and not attended to it with the things you’re talking about, the NAD and the phosphatidylserine and choline, and so forth, if you haven’t ever done that, does that mean it’s definitely gonna be affecting you down the road or couldn’t you have had a concussion and you don’t really have any everlasting ramifications from it?

Heather Sandison, ND

Yeah, absolutely. It’s kind of like the root canal conversation, right? It’s like conventional medicine is like, oh, like, there’s nothing you can do. You’ll heal. Your brain will heal. And there’s some truth in that. Yes, yes. Your body can heal. And it’s this terrain idea, right? Like that when we have repeated injuries or we have a large infectious burden, we have a large toxic burden, now you have this imbalanced system. And so any new perturbation, any new stressor, like a menopausal transition is going to be amplified, right? There’s gonna be more inflammation. There’s gonna be more dysregulation in the system. And so if we can keep the homeodynamic state relatively steady, if we can not be adding to that burden, if anything we can be reducing that burden, that’s what’s aging backwards, right? Like if you know, of course it makes sense, like if you get hit over the head with a baseball bat, like that’s gonna probably cause some damage and cause some harm. For some people, that may be like somewhat permanent, that may be significant enough that it throws off the pituitary function or it throws off something long term. For other people, it may be more mild, but any, and if we’re giving the opportunity, what we wanna do is give the brain everything that it needs to heal.

Dr. Sharon Stills

So for someone who’s listening, are there ways, are there ways to evaluate, like if you’re listening and wondering, how do I know if that concussion I had is affecting me? Are there diagnostic tests? Are there quizzes you can take to see if you have symptoms? How do you evaluate that for some?

Heather Sandison, ND

Now, there’s such a great question. And different people would give you different answers. Like Daniel Amen of the Amen Clinic, they do spec scans and they basically can look at cerebral vascular flow. So my understanding of what they do, they really pretty pictures of the brain. And they can basically say, you’re not getting enough blood flow here and there. And if you put that together with this story of, oh yeah, I hit my head, I fell out of a tree when I was seven and I hit my head in this spot and then they can say, oh yeah, that’s probably what’s going on there now. We don’t know for sure. But you know, when you put the story with the pictures, sometimes it all adds up. Then we do the wave-scan, which is an EEG and lots of different providers use different EEGs. It is a wet EEG. So it does connect to several different, a handful, probably 12 or 13 spots on the brain. There are different ways of doing that, but that gives us a read of how quick your reaction times are and it gives us a bit of a map of what’s going on in different areas of the brain. And again, sometimes we can associate, okay, I hit my head in the front, ’cause I fell off my bike or whatever the story is. And then that’s where there’s less voltage, like there’s less energy there. 

Or the P300, this reaction time there is different from the rest of the brain. So sometimes we can put those things together. All of those tests, they add up in terms of like financial resource, how much you need to pay for them. And so sometimes I’m like, well, NAD is anti-aging, and it’s gonna help to heal your brain. And so like, why not just, let’s just jump to treatment if you’re going to, if you have the story of having had concussions, you’ve lost consciousness. If you have that as part of your story, like what does it matter what the imaging says, let’s just jump in and treat you because you’re gonna get benefit. The treatments that we’re doing are so beneficial regardless, that I mean like phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylserine, IV NAD, like, these are things that I do for antiaging, for brain benefits anyways, it just becomes a higher priority if you have that history.

Dr. Sharon Stills

Love that. Love that. So what does your, I’d love for you to talk about, what does your prevention reversal look like and maybe share a little bit about Marama, which is such a unique yet needed place.

Heather Sandison, ND

Thank you. So yeah, at Solcere, at the clinic, what we offer is a dementia or prevention program and dementia prevention or reversal program, excuse me. And the reversal is essentially just like on steroids, we’re gonna do more, we’re gonna do it faster. It’s more urgent, but they’re very, very similar, right? ‘Cause it’s all of this is evaluating from Dr. Bredesen’s perspective, evaluating he calls up the 36 holes on the roof and really there’s like a thousand, but we’ll make it feel a little less overwhelming and just call it 36. And his point is that if you patch one of those 36 holes, you still have a leaky roof. So what we wanna do is be as comprehensive as possible. This is a complex neurodegenerative disease. And we need a solution with a complexity that matches that. So what we’re doing is evaluating hormonal function, trophic function, right? Hormones signal the brain to create new neurons. 

This is very regenerative. And when we think about the height of our hormones in our late teens and 20s, right, that is when we are skill building, that is when we are in college or in trade school. Like we’re learning new skills, we’re taking in new ideas, we’re a bit irrational maybe because we’re so open to so many ideas. And that is we wanna approximate that maybe not all the way to there, but we want more of that. Those connections being built right as we age. And we want this signaling. So this is our estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, pregnenolone, even thyroid hormones, vitamin D is a hormone. Our cortisol, melatonin, all of those hormones are so important for sending those trophic messages or those build messages. So hormones are a big component. Toxins, we wanna get rid of them, ’cause they’re kind of the opposite, right? Again, Dr. Bredesen he uses this analogy of my brain . So imagine your brain is a country, and if your brain is focused on defending against toxins or fighting infections, then you’re not gonna be building infrastructure of new memories. And you don’t want to maybe be doing both at the same time because now your resources are spread so thin, the ATP, that fuel or that currency, that each cell uses to make memories, to keep your brain, coming up with that word, that ATP is gonna be depleted if you’re in growth mode, when really where it needs to be is in defending or fighting. And so we wanna evaluate for all those things. Do you have mercury toxicity? Do you have mold toxicity? 

Do you have high levels of phthalides or PCBs that your body is spending a lot of energy fighting? How can we augment that process? How can we in a very safe, gentle, effective way help you get those toxins out so we can check that box and go, okay, that’s not interfering with cognitive function. Sometimes that does the trick. Sometimes it’s so incredible that getting those toxins out, cleansing and clearing up the brain, all of a sudden the lights come back on. Same thing with hormones. It’s like watching a wilted flower perk back up, it’s amazing. So hormones, toxins, nutrients. We need enough nutrients. We need enough of the right things. Again, B vitamins, like just getting enough B vitamins and sometimes the lights come back on, but we evaluate. So we test for all of those things, all of your minerals, your B vitamins, your antioxidants. Is your gut working? Are you digesting and absorbing? A lot of people are eating exactly the right things. We recommend an organic ketogenic diet for brain healing, not for the rest of your life, but at least for like three to six months, if you’re struggling with cognitive function, three to six months of a ketogenic diet can be very, very healing. 

And, but if you’re choosing to eat the right things, but you’re not digesting, absorbing and assimilating those nutrients, that can be an issue. And we might wanna go around the gut with IV nutrients, temporarily or injections. Think about other ways to make sure you have those resources that are necessary for healing. And then of course treat the gut. So we have hormones, toxins, nutrients structure. So structurally, molecular structure, you can have genetic predisposition towards dementia. And some people know this because of their family history, for other people, they find they have an APOE status of a 44 or 34, so they’re at higher risk. And what we do then right, is we focus on the epigenetics. So how we just have to double down, you have to work harder. If you have an APOE of 44, you’ve just gotta work harder than your neighbor, harder than your spouse maybe to prevent because you just have more of a likelihood to develop amyloid plaques or tau proteins in your brain. Those responses to, those are not the cause of dementia, right? Those are the response to an irritant in the brain. And if you have that genetic predisposition, you’re more likely to get more irritated in your brain quicker. So we need to keep those irritants away. We need to keep them down and out of the picture as much as is possible. 

So that’s molecular structure, then on the other end of structure, is your macro structure, and this is the way maybe an orthopedist or a chiropractor or your dentist might think of it. Can you keep your airway open at night? Is your head carriage way forward, cutting off circulation, both in and out of your brain, or are you keeping your shoulders, your ear and your shoulders in alignment so that you can get good flow up into your brain as well as out of your brain. Are you getting oxygen to your brain at night or do you have sleep apnea? So these are things that need to be evaluated. Are your sinuses clogged so you can’t breathe through your nose? Breathing through your nose, nasal breathing is essential to good cognitive function because it’s how we get enough oxygen to our lungs and then enough oxygen in our blood so that it can get to our brain. Blood flow is critical to good cognitive function, both going in and going out. And then sleep is critical because sleep is when that lymphatic detox happens at night. So if you’re not getting that good sleep, you accumulate toxins in your brain. So really important to prioritize that. 

And then oral health becomes very central here in terms of structure, do you have an, and then infections, infections is another piece of this, which is associated with gingivitis and gum disease sometimes is in those root canals, so not everybody has a bad root canal, but some people have root canals that have these latent infections that drive that irritation again, that beta amyloid plaque, tau protein neuroinflammation directly. So we need to take care of any infections, be very proactive about dental health. Lyme disease is another infection that directly causes plaque and tau protein formation. So we wanna be on top of that and herpes as well. So if you are somebody who gets, you know, one of the unlucky people who not only has been exposed, which is most people have been exposed to herpes, but there’s some unlucky people who have recurrent infections. 

We’re naturopaths, right? Like I’m not a drug pusher, but I highly recommend doing whatever you need to do, if it’s Lysine and some lithium, Melissa officinalis or lemon balm can be very helpful. So getting all your antivirals on board for prevention, and then if you need to take acyclovir or valacyclovir, taking them, don’t be afraid to do that because herpetic outbreaks triggers neuroinflammation. So you want to avoid that as much as possible. And then of course, COVID, COVID has also proven to really wreak havoc when it comes to neuroinflammation and cytokine production. So keeping that terrain, I always say all the other ones first, because that infectious component really, if you are not a great host for those bugs, then you should be in okay shape, right? This is, a lot of this is the hygiene, eating the foundations of health. And then stress. Stress is one of those ones. Like sometimes I mentioned it last and sometimes I mentioned it first, because it’s so important, but managing stressors, right? This is why torture doesn’t work. Because when you torture someone and they’re under immense amounts of stress, they can’t remember anyways. So you really, it’s like stage fright is a great example of this, right? When we’re under tons of stress, we just can’t remember, our brains stop functioning. 

And that is what we wanna avoid, right? We wanna be in that rest, digest, heal state. That’s when we make memories, that’s when we’re able to connect emotionally and memories are very much tied to emotion. That’s when we let go of the anxiety and the depression. That’s when our brains work best. That’s when we’re creative, that’s when we make those connections. So managing stressors, we all have them, right? Lots of things come up. So it’s how we manage them that’s most important. It’s a prayer practice. It’s a meditation practice. It’s breath work. It’s making sure you have good relationships, that social connection is so crucial. So those are, as if that wasn’t enough, right? Like those are the components. Those are the general components. And I’m sure everyone’s like, oh my God, I have to do all of that? Just getting started, just getting started and doing it early before you have symptoms, makes it so much easier.

Dr. Sharon Stills

Well, that was very comprehensive and I love it. And I wanna throw in a couple of just things when you spoke about herpes and COVID, one of the things that I have found to be the most powerful treatment is thymus and alpha, which is a peptide. So that’s like, I’m just my heart thymus and alpha is like, I just love it so much. And when you were talking about stress and memories, I always think of, we’re either making a beautiful memory or we’re learning a lesson. And if we can turn our stress into a lesson, into growth into what can I take with me, then it kind of tampers down the angst of it and it can become, oh, this is kind of, okay, I’m gonna roll with this and so just a little bit of a mind shift that can help you manage your stress, because you know by now that stress is always involved if you’ve been hanging around and listening to me, interview people, it always comes back to stress. 

And it is how we dance with our stress. We’re not gonna get rid of our stress unless we die. And yes, all those things you mentioned are just so powerfully important. And so I love that we’re bringing light to our brains and that we have to pay attention. And it’s not, we don’t need to settle for, I’m getting old. Like that’s just BS when you’re told you’re getting old. And so, of course you’re forgetful, of course you’re fat, of course you’re tired, of course you’re achy. It’s like, no, we are changing that narrative. That is not how it has to be. And you do need to put in a little work because imbalances are multifactorial as Dr. Heather just so elegantly explained, is it a lack of something? Is it toxins? Is it not sleeping? Is it not eating and absorbing and assimilating? And so sometimes it can be overwhelming. But for me, it’s always like, like patients are told, there’s nothing we can do. 

And when a patient comes into my office or your office, it’s like, oh my God, there’s so many things we can do. Where do we start? And so working with someone who can kind of help you navigate that and pick out the things that they think might be the most affecting you is really helpful. So have someone guide you so you don’t have to be overwhelmed and in this alone and ruling out or ruling in can be really like you brought up Lyme. And I think people forget that Lyme can really cause neuropsychiatric issues and neuro problems. And so these mold and these things we have to, I run these tests with patients. And sometimes it’s like, we’re just gonna run ’em because maybe we can rule it out and put it to the side. And if we can’t do that, then wow, we just found a really important factor. So thank you for being so comprehensive and changing the story, I guess I’d just like to end with what do you think the future of brain health looks like?

Heather Sandison, ND

Yes.

Dr. Sharon Stills

And you didn’t tell us about Mirama.

Heather Sandison, ND

I’ll use this as an opportunity to do that. So the reason I do this is because I believe that as a society, we are squandering one of the most valuable resources, which is the opportunity for intergenerational wisdom transfer, right? Like we have seniors among us who are at the height of their wisdom and experience. They know so much and have so much to contribute and yet we allow them to just degenerate, right. We put them in senior living facilities. So we ship them off, put them in front of TVs and feed them cake and cookies and pasta and sandwiches and cereal, right? Like the worst thing for their brain. And then they become, or they’re isolated. Maybe they stay home because they’re really attached to their home. But now they’re totally isolated because they get their driver’s license taken away. Nobody trusts them, and this is, again, it’s this absolutely like the heartbreaking squandered resource, because really there’s this opportunity for them to take care of like the youngest among us. There are so many wisdom traditions and indigenous cultures, but even like Scandinavian culture does this really well still. And so at Marama, I think of what I’m doing, there is like triaging, where we’re trying to help make the existing structure, the existing kind of societal norm of like people going to senior living. 

We’re trying to make that better, the best that it can possibly be, but really ultimately like my goal and the future of how society treats seniors is that one, we prevent any sort of cognitive decline, even the Lancet. So the Lancet is a journal out of the UK, very highly credible, totally conventional. And they had said in 2020, it got steamrolled by COVID. But it was like, I don’t know, mid-2020, they published their view on dementias. And they are saying that 40% of dementias can be prevented. And so if the conventional world is accepting that 40% can be prevented, I think that like 99% can be prevented with good food, good water, good sleep, you know, less stress, more exercise. The foundations of what we discussed today, hormone replacement therapy. We could have so much less of that. And then we keep our seniors in the fabric of their communities where they can continue to work if they want, they continue to take care of, they take care of younger generations, they are valued. And so that’s my hope. It’s that by the time I am older, the senior living facilities are obsolete. Like, yes, I have that business. But like, I hope that we can put it out of business in time because it doesn’t serve society. What serves society is having our seniors with us, our elders there to teach us. And so, yeah, as I get creative about what my next steps look like and how I contribute in this lifetime, that is my goal.

Dr. Sharon Stills

I love that. And I’m right there with you. And that’s why we are here reminding you all, who are listening, that this is not the end, menopause transition is not being put out to pasture. It is becoming a crone, embracing your wisdom. And yes, I am right there with you that as we age, we need to be revered and not set aside and integrated. I know when I would bring my granddaughter, when my mom was alive to see her and her friends, that my granddaughter would light up the place and it would just come to life and everyone would be so happy and we need more of that mixing and that learning from experience. So, oh my God, I just adore you and love you so much for all that you do. Where can people, I would love for the listeners to be able to learn more about Marama. And I know you have Marama at home, so where can we find you?

Heather Sandison, ND

Yeah. So we have maramaexperience.com is the website for Marama, M-A-R-A-M-A. And then Marama at Home is another offering. My hope is that this helps keep people at home. So I basically teach a course about how to implement everything we do at Marama in our immersive living senior living environment, how to incorporate all of that at your home. So what to do, what activities to do, what to cook, how to set your house up, what all the things, how to relate to people with dementia, all of that’s in there. So that’s Marama, M-A-R-A-M-A A-T H-O-M-E, maramaathome.com. And then Solcere, S-O-L-C-E-R-E, Solcere.com is the clinic. And I’m here with the team of providers that all are dedicated to helping people reverse their dementia. So we invite you to, yeah, look us up on the internet or give us a call and there will be notes, I’m sure. Show notes and stuff below. So thank you so much, Sharon, for having me, it’s always a pleasure. And as somebody who’s had the privilege of meeting your granddaughter, she lights up the room no matter where she goes.

Dr. Sharon Stills

As does your daughter, we’ve got a little play thing going. So thank you for being here. Thank you everyone for listening. I hope you become as obsessed with Marama and learning about Heather’s work as I am, and so blessings to you all, and we’ll be back with another interview soon. Until then, be well.