Healing Autoimmunity with Light & Sound Biofield Therapies

Christine Schaffner, ND

Oh, thank you so much for having me, I always enjoy our conversations.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

I do too. And we’re going to be talking about bio fields today. So should we just start with a definition of that?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, absolutely. And this is something that I feel very much a student and my knowledge continues to evolve as my patients teach me. And as I, I think as we’re learning more and are more open to looking at beyond our physical bodies in this way, and a mentor of mine is Dr. Beverly Rubik and she is a biophysicist out of UC Berkeley. And she came up with this terminology with a group of people in the 1990s to really put this into pub med, to make this more of a legitimate term that we could actually research and put science behind. And so there are different definitions floating around of bio field, but I, I think of our biofield as it’s this field of information and energy that surrounds us. And the more that I think about it, it’s not just a field that emanates from us, but it’s this bidirectional field that, you know, yes, we can go into the, you know, biophysics of our physiology and why we have a field that we can generate from our physical body. But as my understanding and my personal experience deepens into this field of information and energy that surround us beyond our body, some people might call the ether or the unified field. I believe this is a bridge to connect to that greater source of information that as we learn about and observe this. And if we can really get into what we can talk about, this coherent state, I think that’s where we can really just tap into this abundant well of health and information and access that I think we so desperately need for our bodies when we’re sick and when we’re not well. And, you know, just, I think it offers a lot of insight for healing, not only for our ourselves individually, but for the collective right now.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

You know, Rupert Sheldrake talked about the morphogenetic field a long time ago in terms of plant systems, right? And that information that is bidirectional. And so this is definitely not something new, but it’s new in, in what I love, what you’ve mentioned, is that now we’re able to access research on it. So we’re pulling it out of woo, pulling it into the scientific field for people that need to be able to, you know, taste, touch, smell, and, and feel it, which is, I think really that’s important if we’re going to have this make an impact on our medical practice, right?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Hmm, yeah. And I think that this information, as you are very well in touch with, is its ancient wisdom, right? And kind of there’s this Renaissance, right? And I think that there is almost this tipping point of us being open more collectively, of embracing this part of ourselves, especially with, you know, the advent of all of the technology that surrounds us. ‘Cause now it’s not a far cry for people to understand there’s invisible fields of information and energy that connect us right now, through, you know, WiFi, through cell phone technology, through, you know, all of this, you know, technology, for better or worse, you know, that it also, I think is a bridge to be like, okay, well, if we’re able to communicate in such a profound way through technology, why is it a far stretch that we can’t, you know, look at our bodies and our ecosystem from this lens as well. So it’s exciting.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

It is exciting. And I think a lot more diverse groups of people like from plant medicine communities who have accessed this field in a different way, and the scientific community in this way, and then tribal civilizations in other ways, and ancient modalities of medicine, and the word you use is tipping point. I think, you know, with that many diverse groups coming to the same information, it can’t help, but get out, yeah.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, I think, I mean, as we’re probably all very aware of the last few years and how that’s just turned society and our healthcare system upside down, I think that on one level where, you know, I’m an optimist, even though I know we’re going through so much right now, that where I really try to land on is that I know that there’s such polarization right now, but at the same time, I think most of us can connect whether, whatever can’t people sit on is that we need a change. We need a new system, that all systems need to be revisited. And I feel that in my heart, I very much feel that this, what we’re gonna have a conversation about today is very much, I think, of the future of medicine that bridging this, you know, information and bringing this into the mainstream understanding of how we’re wired and how we work, I think is the exciting part. Again, that we have this opportunity to just, you know, forage this whole new way of healing our bodies.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Mm hmm, so, accessing biofield through light, sound. I just did an interview with Jonathan Goldman on sound, the applications of sound, and let’s talk a little bit about light.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, light and sound again, light and sound frequency. All of these things I think are the future of medicine. And again, they’re not, you know, new they’re old, but maybe we have new technologies to implement them. And so when we think about the biofield, I talked about this, you know, field of information and energy that surrounds us. So it’s electromagnetic in nature, but we also have what we call biophoton emissions. And this is the work from Dr. Fritz-Albert Popp, who really studied this. And he really looked at that we are beings of light. And again, this is ancient wisdom that was just able to be measured, that we have this low light emissions that ourselves emit. And you know, what he found is that actually our, you know, from our DNA that we can not only have this information and the language of proteins, but it’s also the language of light that is a communication network in the body. And so biophotons can be emitted through light and they can travel through this network in the body. And I love the work of also Dr. James Oschman and he uses the term, what we call living matrix. And I really have tried to understand and evolve my knowledge about this, understanding about this tissue continuum from our nucleus, to our skin, to our field. We are this kind of, you know, not these disparate, separate, you know, compartments that we learn in anatomy school, like the arteries are red and the veins, and the lymph are green, and, you know. 

But, you know, all of this is good, you know, I think to have an understanding of, you know, the structures in the body, but when we’re in living tissue, there is no separation, there’s connection. And so I think light is a very important, you know, way that we can communicate, you know, on top of biochemical reactions, there are light reactions, and again, Popp studied that it’s kind of this Goldilocks kind of window that we don’t wanna have too much light or too little light in our cells. And there’s this idea of coherence, and this is kind of aligned, organized light that can be emitted. And he studied cancer cells, that they were basically leaking light. And then in autoimmune, or, you know, I guess, you know, it’s always evolving, but in the model of MS, multiple sclerosis, which can be viewed as an autoimmune disease, there was too much light in the cells. So it’s kind of looking at that balance of having, you know, coherent light emissions out of the body. And so I think about when people are going through an illness, one of the ways that we can help do to support their body is to add coherent light to their physical body, to restore communication, just like we would, if we had like a B12 deficiency, or, you know, vitamin B1 deficiency, or vitamin C deficiency, or these nutritional deficiencies. I think there’s this whole other way to look at potentially having coherent light deficiencies in body.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

So what’s an application modality for measuring the Goldilocks, the coherent amount and then delivering it.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah. You know, I think a lot of us have to use our clinical insight to kind of, you know, think about how, you know, our patients’, you know, physiology is maladapted and then using tools, you know, through either photobiomodulation or photodynamic therapy, which I’m happy to share more of. You know, my goal and my wish in my career is that we can have more tools within the clinical model that we can actually measure light out of our patients, you know. And Fritz-Albert Popp had a photo multiplier in his lab to be able to measure light coming from a cells. The closest thing that we have that I’m aware of at this time, Dr. Beverly Rubik introduced me to a camera called the Bio-Well that a Russian scientist, Dr. Karotkov came up with, and it’s using gas discharge visualization. So it’s looking at the light emissions from the hands and basically making it out through a mathematical algorithm, basically creating a biofield picture of that patient. And so that is one way to look at light in the body. But again, where I’m super passionate and excited about is how more of these tools can be accessible. And these, you know, there’s a lot of bioresonance tools out there or different, you know, energy medicine equipment. But I think the more that we can really focus in this idea of coherent light emissions being emanated from the body, I think that’s gonna just be a whole other, you know, way and lens to look at the body. 

Because again, when we’re looking at, you know, I wanna describe again photobiomodulation of photodynamic therapy, but one principle, I just wanna share that I haven’t stated that I think could also kind of gel this idea together is that I’ve been through my journey. I’ve been also studying the work of Dr. Joe Dispenza, and I really love his approach and kind of, you know, how he’s pairing research to his, you know, what he’s seen in his community. And one of the things he said when I was at a lecture that has just really, really stuck with me, and I think that’s why we have to look at these biofield therapies is that he said, “To change matter with matter takes time.” And I think we’re, I think that’s what we do in the functional medicine world. And, we do a great job with it. We have really great matter to matter tools, but I know in my heart, I get frustrated at sometimes how long it can be to recover a patient. But he says, when we understand the field and when we change actually the field, so think about it changing the biofield, we change matter. 

So this idea, if we can change the way our body communicates from a biofield or biophysics lens, kind of, it’s almost the organization above the biochemical model, then we can change matter more quickly. And that, I think is where, you know, I know you not to put words in your mouth, but I think we’re both open to the mystical and both open to people, you know, having these profound healings that are outside of this matter to matter model. And so I think when we think about how do we support our patients, bringing not only awareness to their biofield, but bringing tools to help support their field, this is where we can see patients get better, faster. And that’s where I think, again, light sound frequency has the opportunity to do. So, just to kind of give a, you know, just a narrative to understand why we’re talking about this, too. I think that, I don’t know if you resonate with that statement, but it’s a statement that has just really sat with me and has guided me since I’ve heard it.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Yes, absolutely. And you know, this is a place where it comes back to Ayurveda with the five different layers of us, where we go from the grossest, you know, matter of the physical body, to the energy, to the emotional, to the wisdom, to the spiritual. And, you know, when we get into those subtler layers, when we’re shifting things there, then that impacts the physical body in such a more dramatic way that if we’re holding onto a lot of trauma, mindset issues, you know, then that’s also influencing our physical structure. So, you know, this work must be done in these other layers. And so I love, I love this conversation. It’s so important.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, yeah, no, I think I totally agree. And I, you know, kind of bringing it back to kind of this idea of light in the body. So there’s two ways I think that I’m aware of at this point of how we can look at applications of light in the clinical model. There’s a tool of what we call photobiomodulation. And then there’s also a technique that I use in my office called photodynamic therapy. And again, I’ve talked about biophoton and light emissions, this idea that we communicate with light in the body, and then there’s this also this idea that we actually are wired to receive light in the body. So we have different parts of our cellular machinery in our, you know, especially in our mitochondria that are called chromophores. And they, again, not only respond to electrons and different, you know, cofactors of different nutrients, but also to different wavelengths of light. And so when we think about the electromagnetic spectrum, the visible range of light that we often can see, and the non visible, too, from UV to infrared, every light, that wavelength of light rather, has a biochemical impact in our physiology. 

And so when we think about photobiomodulation, we often often think about red light, right? So red light is very widespread right now. There are red light beds, there’s red light, you know, different units that you can hang on your wall, there’s combinations of red and infrared. So it’s all about when you think about photobiomodulations, you think about what is that wave length of light? What kind of chromophore effect will it have? And then also the depth of penetration. So how deep it can get into the body. So there’s a lot of different combinations of red with infrared and another range of infrared, you know, near, mid, and far can go deeper into the body. So for instance, I work with a company named Weber and they are named after Dr. Weber. Who’s a German medical doctor, who’s brilliant. And I have a couple different devices in his toolkit in my office. And one is a helmet and it’s a red, an infrared light helmet. And so the infrared actually is strong enough that it can go through the skull and it can get into the brain. And so it can have another whole mechanism of action in the brain. So it’s not only kind of being surrounded with the light, but again, you know, topically where you’re gonna put it so it can get into the tissue that you’re targeting. And so just staying on the Weber, kind of thinking about photobiomodulation. So we have the helmet, they have a watch that I really love that has laser light, that actually you apply on the radial arteries. 

So you’re getting red, yellow, blue, and green on the wrist, and you’re essentially getting those different wavelengths of light. I kind of, I really simply tell patients they’re, you know, getting biophotons in their blood. And so we think about red, you know, having a really profound effect on the mitochondria, helping with ATP and metabolic water, helping with circulation. Blue is actually a really great antimicrobial and antiviral in the aesthetic world. There are those blue light masks for, you know, helping with acne. So that can also help with, you know, our immune system’s ability to clear infection. Yellow, we like to call liquid sunshine, because it can help with serotonin production, vitamin D synthesis in the body. So it can help people feel, you know, a lot, it can be a mood uplifting light. Green can also help with oxygenation of the tissue. So it has an effect on hemoglobin and the ability for us to carry oxygen in our red blood cells. So you can kind of just again, get, you know, targeted exposure to this coherent light. Again, the sun, you know, provides all of these spectrums of light. You know, again, we need to be, of course, careful, you know, where we are with sun exposure, but, you know, nature provides a lot of this, but when we’re thinking about creating a therapeutic target, we can have these biohacking tools. So, you know, the application of light is photobiomodulation.

And then there’s another term that Dr. Weber taught me called photodynamic therapy. And there are different substances that we can ingest physically, either orally, topically, or through intravenous methods that actually are photosensitizers. And they can be taken up into our tissues, into our cells, and then prime those cells to be basically, that substance gets photo activated in the tissue, that it is to have an even stronger effect. So one really common example is methylene blue, which is a pigment that we’re using. It’s available through compounding pharmacies. It’s also available through supplements and, you know, on the internet, but I caution that you get a really good source of methylene blue. If you’re gonna decide to do it, it can be compounded or intravenous and methylene blue has some really amazing effects, and on its own, it can help be an electron donor and can help with mitochondrial energy. It crosses the blood-brain barrier. 

It can be a neurotropic, it can be mood enhancing. It’s really good for blood flow and circulation. Also anti-malarial, antiviral, it kind of does everything. It’s a panacea in a lot of ways, but it gets photo bioactivated by red light. So you could ingest methylene blue and you can create an increase or amplification in methylene blue by pairing it with that red light. So that’s that idea of photodynamic therapy. So photodynamic therapies used in the office in that way, In cancer, I don’t treat cancer, but there is kind of an application in oncology where you can actually use these photosensitizers with the different light for a tonic effect. And Dr. Weer has really amazing case studies with using photodynamic therapy in cancers. So, those are the tools that I use. You know, again, there’s lots of different things constantly coming out on the market. I feel, again, you know, just a few years ago, this kind of idea exploded and again, innovation, and, you know, capitalism, we have a lot of different tools that are at our fingertips for everyone’s budget. But yeah, I think just because of what we’re-

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Yeah, quick Amazon search and you cover thousands.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, I know, totally, totally. And I think with what we’re up against with just like all the stress we’re under in our body, that, you know, adding light, you know, to our bodies can be a really great tool.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Yeah. So what about the clinical applications of sound?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, sound is rather profound. I mean, I love sound within my own experience. I think sound has been a really amazing tool. And I think about sound in the same way I think about light. Again through Dr. James Oschman’s work and then there is a, there was a researcher out of UCLA. I always forget his name, but he actually studied the sounds that cells emit. And he actually studied like that a, you know, a sick cell versus a healthy cell, and kind of actually was able to record the cell, of the sounds that they emitted, and kind of like light there’s more of like, in a healthy cell, a coherent harmonic sound with when the cells are in a healthy range. And then when cells are dying or cancer cells, it’s more incoherent dissonance screeching. So there’s this idea that we communicate with light, but also biophotons is the term. And so I think that’s just a really wonderful way of kind of thinking about another way that we can communicate. So this idea of adding coherent sound that the body can help with communication. And then there’s this other idea that, you know, not only in the physical tissues, but in the field. And I know we both know the work of biofield tuning and Eileen McKusick, who’s been a thought leader of kind of looking at how trauma can get trapped in our own biofield. 

And she uses tuning forks to actually find where there is dissonant sounds and kind of that basically when there’s trauma in the field, it’s basically, there’s a sound paired with that trauma. And one way to kind of clear it from the field is adding coherent harmonic, you know, sound to help clear that out and not just talk about it, but just to have physically kind of, you know, almost smooth it over if you will, and release it from the field. And then that can have a profound physical effect on, you know, any autoimmune illness, or chronic illness, or acute illness, or just even mental health. So I think about sound in that way, and the way that I use it in my office is there’s my good friend, Kelly Kennedy, introduced me to this gentleman, Rasmus Gaupp-Berghausen, and he is Austrian. And he studied with Dr. Emoto for 20 years. And he Dr. Emoto for people who don’t recall, he’s the water guy. So he studied water crystals and how water really responds to intent. And, you know, basically very simplistically, if you have a healing intent, there’s beautiful crystalline structures in the water. If you have a negative intent, it’s kind of the water, you know, looks, you know, like you’d imagine. 

And so, you know, when we think about vibration, which is sound, it can affect water. And if anyone wants to Google kind of, I’m very visual. So I love the work with somatics, you know, where somatics is this, I think Hans Selye, I think is his name. I could be, you know, misinterpreting his name, but he invented somatics and this idea of studying vibration on matter. So just thinking about different sound waves, which are measured in hertz and how that can create different shapes and matter. So when you think about it, when we’re very much water, right? So when we’re applying sound to our water bodies, we can actually, I believe that our body communicates with light and sound and these patterns, you know, I think these patterns can actually have a positive effect in our physiology. And so Rasmus is brilliant and he came up with a technology that’s called Sound of Soul. 

So he, you measure, we do this in the office, and we measure your heart rate variability, and then the computer program has different types of sounds. And we basically can convert your heart rate variability to music, and then see how your heart rate variability changes. If it can, increases your parasympathetic tone while you’re listening to, you know, that sound, it also has a light application, so it’s sound and light. And so it’s almost like, I, I think about it, it’s like your you’re tuning your auto tuning, your own field with the music of your heart. You know, so it’s really, you know, beautiful and, you know, life is complicated and health is complicated, but there are these simple principles in a lot of ways. And I think what comes back to, you know, the more that we can really, you know, open our heart and get in a state of coherence via our heart rhythm, that has a really profound impact on our biofield, our physiology, our wellbeing. And I think this technology has really illustrated that for me.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Hmm, that’s beautiful. When I talked to Jonathan Goldman and his wife, they were just talking about, on their research that they’d uncomplicated a lot of the 40 years of sound therapy research that they’d done and come up with the basic hum.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Nice. 

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

And doing just like conscious humming, which is a pranayama exercise called Bhramari, that it comes out of yoga and Ayurveda, and I thought, wow, you know, it’s so amazing that this is free medicine, you know.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Really, totally, yeah.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Our own voices, you know?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah. And I think there’s that, you know, the nature of humans to innovate, there are all these tools that I’m sharing, but of course they’re either, everything that I’ve shared a tool. There is, you know, an inherent, you know, free access, you know, within all of us, right. Within nature, within ourselves.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Yes.

Christine Schaffner, ND

you know, the, as you said, the breath, our ability to tone and create music from within, you know, we’re getting, you know, inexpensive instruments to, you know, use. I mean, there are sound baths that are often in many communities, those bowls aren’t inexpensive, but you can go to a sound bath and experience that. I’ve had some profound shifts in my own being, and also in my patients, you know, just being in, you know, a community. So, you know, a field of community in, you know, these different ranges of sound, and people can have, you know, really feel like they’re, you know, are not only in a parasympathetic state, but it really clears and facilitates, I think, the shifting of energy out of their field.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Yeah. Yeah, this is really important, you know, because we share the field and as we do it for ourselves and then it’s assisting in others that are in the field, so this is a, it has ripple effects.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, and I think, you know, we think about our individual nature, obviously, especially when we’re going through a chronic illness, and another kind of, you know, a strong impression that was made within me over the last year, is I went to Joel Salatin’s farm. I was invited to speak, and I’m one of the speakers. I was listening to, he was, or he is on Capitol Hill doing a lot of public policy, studying a lot about health. And he was pouring over mortality data. And he found that the number one defining factor in his research for health, was not access to the most expensive medicine, but was actually community. And he went through this whole lecture around community. And I feel that, especially as we come out of this like isolation and this kind of really, you know, this really devastating time for many people, that the more that you learn on the, you know, the impact of community, but also as you mentioned, the collective field, it’s almost like, I feel like, especially in our practice, Keesha, we can’t leave that out of the equation anymore. 

And we do retreats and I’ve started to do a few. And I feel like it’s amazing how fast people shift in a collective field, rather than kind of the one on one time. And I think that that has to also be, you know, part of this, a new paradigm of medicine, really. Really accessing the collective and accessing community, not only for each other, but also for healing intent, you know, through the work of Lynne McTaggart and even Joe Dispenza and many, you know, ancient traditions, or even religion, you know, prayer, you know, like if we get a group of people for positive intent on another, you know, through, I think there’s many ways to break down what’s happening, you know, biophysically. But that, I think is again, I feel like we do our patients a disservice, if we’re not sharing that possibility for them, if they wanna participate.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Mm hmm, I couldn’t agree more.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Mm hmm. 

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Yeah, it’s a big, I think most people are seeing it too, you know, having the breakdown of community over the last two and a half years, people are starving for it.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

So it feels like there’s a lot of conscious intent around it right now.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, yeah.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

How to build the healthy foundation for a field going forward.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Mm hmm, rebuilding it, mm hmm, yeah.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Mm hmm, yeah. And it feels like it’s not even rebuilding because I don’t think it was that-

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Healthy to begin with.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, you’re right.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

We were all so busy and psycho crazy, you know?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

It feels like people are really coming to this place of no, like we really want, you know, and, I think that’s a positive, that’s come out of all this.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah. Creating the new, yeah, the new community, the new-

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Yeah.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, now I think there’s a huge opportunity. I mean, I think we’re in the midst of that transition of the old, you know, falling while we’re, you know, building the new and that can be really jarring or scary for a lot of people. But I think as you know, you mentioned, I think there’s this huge opportunity for really envisioning a really, a way healthier way to interact with one another.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Mm hmm. So why do you think it’s important to combine energy medicine with naturopathic medicine?

Christine Schaffner, ND

You know, I, as I mentioned, you know, in kind of my conversation, right, earlier on this idea of, you know, matter to matter takes time and when you change the field, you change matter. I think, you know, I’ve read James Oschman’s book, “Energy Medicine,” a few times, like cover to cover. And there are these, you know, pictures of, you know, this idea beyond lock and key, right? So we learn in, you know, biochemistry that, you know, hormone just kind of happens to fall in line with a cell receptor, and then they combine and change the shape and then a cascade of biochemical reactions help that translate into, you know, an epigenetic phenomenon and then translation of protein. And so that’s one way of looking, and not to say that doesn’t happen, but there’s this whole other idea of this coming together of these two molecules through the field of light and sound and electromagnetic interactions. 

And that, really, is the story behind the story of those two, you know, molecules coming together. And again, I think that this combination, not to throw the baby out with the bath water, I mean, we’ve learned a lot in biochemistry. I’m not saying that. We shouldn’t lose our functional medicine or our naturopathic medicine or our biochemistry. I think that’s all there and amazing, but how, you know, these times, you know, people are too sick, and, you know, too much is going on. Like how do we make that shine even more? And how do we really get the results that we want for our patients? We, I think bringing these tools that address, you know, energy medicine, address the field, I think we just can accelerate and amplify and really, you know, change people. ‘Cause I think unfortunately, you know, I see those patients, so, of course, change and they get it and they move on, and they, you know, have these amazing lives, and then suddenly they’re just walking this tight rope, you know, for like they’re better, but they’re just on this tight rope of, you know, still trying to keep everything, you know.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Their perfectionism is still there.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, exactly.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Rigid thought processes.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yes, exactly, right? You know, and so it’s like, I think that they.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

I know.

Christine Schaffner, ND

I know, I know, exactly. So it’s like if we can help them really like unpack it, that and really kind of change, you know, on this like deep level, then that’s, you know, where I think, you know, it’s, I think energy medicine is the language of that deep change, and on a whole other kind of level. I mean, I think as I study this, I’m like, why am I so resonant with this conversation and continue to wanna try to look at it from all these angles? And I think it holds the story of that our bodies are highly interconnected. We’re highly interconnected and that there’s this invisible field, whatever anybody wants to call it, whether they call it God, the unified field, the force, the, you know, whatever it is. But there there’s this sea of intelligence that we all have access to that we have to be awake to and we have to be observant of in order to connect with. And so I think the more that, you know, we just kind of look at this inner connection, and this like, you know, we have okay, from deep inside the nucleus, our DNA, but from that’s the microscopic to the macroscopic, and where this continuum, I think the more that we bring that conversation in. So I think that’s for really the insights and the inspiration and the deep wisdom comes from.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

I’ll tell you that, that where I’m working at in that mystical world right now, is one day I was coming out of meditation recently. And though the words, “It doesn’t have to be so complicated,” came up, and it was, you know, established joy, there is no such thing as you know, like the defect in the template is the idea of original sin. And that most of us living in this culture, whether we are religious or not, actually somehow think of ourselves as broken, unworthy, have to earn, have to work hard. Right? In order to, if we get all our chores done, then we can play and have happiness and joy, and the chores are never ending. And so that idea of, you know, that was given to me of just like, the concept of original sin is a defect in the template. I went, “Oh my gosh,” like that, that’s it, right? You remove that idea, and that you are perfection just as you are. The disease is teacher. It is perfection too. It is love it’s at, you know, like I’ve been, I’m recovering from COVID right now. And I’ve been resting in it as an act of love for a teaching that is meant for me. And, you know, that’s a very different experience from, oh my gosh, what did I do wrong? How did I get this out? You know, like it’s just, it’s just not rigid at all. You know? And so then everything can be soft and it can move. It can be more fluid, you know? And so I think that it’s a very interesting space to go deep into like the template of our society, what it’s built off of, you know? So we’re somehow broken.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Now, I think that’s such a-

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

So messed up.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, so it’s such an important insight, and you know, my daughter just turned four, so she’s still like in that magical space of like, you know, like, you know, I ask her, you know, she, you know, she sees me meditate sometimes, and she’s like telling me, “Mom, I wanna meditate.” And just like, I’m prompted, I’m like, “Emery, what’s meditation?” And she just says, “Opening your heart.” And I’m like, I don’t know where that came from. I never know. You know, you know, so it’s just like, but it’s just that, that innocence that we start,

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Yes.

Christine Schaffner, ND

This joy, this playfulness, this she’s a very happy child. And so, you know, I think we, most of us, God willing, start off in life in that way, you know? And then life hardens us to these, you know, these ideas of, you know, you have to work hard before you get the carrot or you gotta-

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Right.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Before you retire, and then you can enjoy your life, you know? Like, so how do we really.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

If I do everything right, then, then I’ll have this outcome, which is often in the functional medicine world where I see people going off the trail, you know, I’m doing everything right. How come I’m not getting the outcome I want, you know, and it’s actually that rigidity around doing everything right that’s causing the problem.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, yeah, and it’s like, totally. And it’s like, when people like, and how do you share that when, and like, people are ready to know that until they’re ready to hear that. And that’s their path, you know? So I, yeah, I mean, I feel like our physical bodies are just this amazing gift and this barometer though for our spiritual path at the end of the day, you know?

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Totally.

Christine Schaffner, ND

And so I think it’s, yeah. How do we really embrace? Like what if this was, you know, joyful and loving and, you know, we prioritize ourself, not from a, you know, a selfish point, in the sense that, that, you know, we’re feeling like undeserving, but like, we cannot give, unless our cup is full. I mean, that saying, I think it’s very, very true. And I think we all have times in our life where, you know, if we’re not embracing that, you know, the universe will remind us of that lesson, you know.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Tap, tap, tap.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Time to rest, it’s time to rest.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Here’s a new layer.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Totally, totally.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

Well, thank you so much for spending the time here and sharing even a little bit of your wisdom. I always enjoy hearing what you’re up to and what your latest insights are.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Oh, well, thank you, Keesha, the feeling is mutual. I always love learning from you, and I’m so grateful to be on your summit. So thank you so much.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C​

All right, everybody until next time, be well.