Eliminate Toxins for Autoimmune Healing in Your Home

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I always start off all my interviews because I always say we have a reason that we all sit here know with your own story. And I find that they’re quite compelling. The reasons that we all are doing the work that we do in the world, and I would love to hear yours and have you share it with our viewers.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I thank you. Like so many of us, I got to this auto-immune healing world through my own journey with rheumatoid arthritis. I was in my early thirties when I was diagnosed as a single mom with three kids. And, unfortunately for me at the time, I believed my doctors when they said that I couldn’t heal. So, I spent over a decade in decline, following their advice and taking the prescriptions. I was up to 10 prescriptions by the time, I luckily woke up and realized that perhaps there were things I could do, to at least improve my symptoms. I really never expected at that point that I could completely reverse them and heal. And so, you know, like many of us that is where my passion comes from. I want to make sure everybody knows that we can take control. And that’s one of the reasons I love this subject of how we can reduce our toxic load because again, it’s steps we can take to really impact our body’s ability to heal.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

You use that word control. And, I always call it control the biggest addiction that humans have. That’s really, that’s the thing we want is control, right. We want control over everything, including how we die and when we die, if we can have it, you know like there’s just so much around control. That’s present that I think auto immune disease, cancer things like that really sort of illustrate to us, oh, you really don’t have control. You never did have control in any semblance of control. You think you have is just delusional. But the thing that you have. Is control over how you respond to the things that are out of control out here, you know. So the idea that we can control out here is really, that’s never happening, it’s a myth. But we can control our own response to these things. And so this is what we’re doing today is allowing for that right. Like, okay, so what can I control? I can control what I put in my mouth, can’t necessarily control how polluted the planet is, right. But I can control the part that I have control over. And so, I really appreciate the subject so much because it does have a great deal of impact on how your immune system and genetics will express themselves, yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Absolutely, absolutely. And control and power are to me are connected. And, so many of us with auto-immunity hit a point where we really feel like we have lost our power. And so everything I do, you do it’s all about regaining that power, you know, educating making sure we know what our choices are and how to support our bodies. And so, yeah, this is, I’m a total geek. I love all areas of lifestyle connected to auto-immunity but this is an area very near and dear to my heart on my underlying cause of my rheumatoid arthritis is toxicity, so.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Is what?

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Toxicity, is toxic overload, heavy metals, loads, and environmental toxins. So, I thought it was passionate about it before, I’m even more passionate about it now.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Well, let’s talk about the role that toxic burden plays in auto-immune disease. We haven’t made a direct connection. So, let’s talk a little bit about that. What is the role?

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Absolutely. So, I like to look at toxins as cumulative, right. As you mentioned, our bodies are these incredible things and they’re made to heal and we are made to detox. But, due to things like genetics, some of us detox better than others. And like you said, different, we can take 100 people and give them the same exposure, and get probably 100 outcomes or close to it. But we are so overloaded now, you know people ask me all the time, why are the auto-immune numbers, you know on the rise exponentially? And I truly believe that one of the biggest reasons is this toxic burden, especially because as you mentioned, it affects everything. It’s our air, it’s our water, it’s our food, it’s everywhere. So, it doesn’t even need to be some, you know strange radioactive material or it’s just day-to-day as we move on the planet. And, so that chronic state of inflammation, our bodys always fighting. It’s doing what it supposed to do. These toxins are invaders and it just really sets up. And it, you mentioned gut health. You know, we know, you know the toxic load impacts that gut health leads to food sensitivities and auto immune responses. And so it’s this, vicious cycle, but if we’re not addressing, again where we can make an impact on our body’s exposure, I think it’s shortsighted.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

You know, I’m going to use the term to start us off with a little bit. In earlier times on the planet, coal miners used to take a little yellow canary down into the coal mine with them, and they would hang the cage up. And then they would pay attention, if the Canary fell over dead in the cage, they would know that slowly, slowly, these gases were accumulating in the shafts and that they needed to get out. So, the canary was the early warning alert system for them before there was a time of electronics measuring all of this. And so, we really, you know those of us with auto-immune disease, I think of us as those little caged canaries, you know we’re on this planet and our little cage of the world that we have created. And those of us that keel over, you know with an auto-immune illness are really the alert system for the rest of the world. 

That there’s something going on in the toxic burdens that the planet is holding between the air, soil and water. And then our practices of you know, dumping glyphosates and our farming practices. And just so much of what we do that is actually. COVID was amazing to show us, toxic burden of the planet before COVID. And then three months later so much had lightened because of our practices, right. And so I’m gonna just start us off with we are the canaries in the coal mine, the ones that are listening to this, who are interested in how to reverse their autoimmune disease. And so if you can think of yourself in that way and say, oh, I happen to have this system that shows early warning, right. And this is actually a beautiful thing. It’s not a betrayal by my body. It’s not something anyone’s done to me. 

This happens to just be the system that I inhabit, right. And, I do 100% of my patients, I do genetic testing on, and 100% of people with auto-immunity over the years have had mismatches between their phase one, phase two detoxification. And so, we really do have a little hitch in our get along when it comes to being able to get rid of the toxins that we’re exposed to. So, it’s not necessarily about the burden out here but our ability also to be able to release those things. And so, this is a really important talk and discussion. And so, I’m really glad for everyone that’s joining us. So, we’ve already kind of answered why it’s important to pay attention. And if your mamas, you know it’s really important to teach your children, right. Because this planetary problems not getting better and you’ve passed your genetics on.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Right, we’ve cooked those beautiful babies, sometimes in toxic soup, I know.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, and I always say, if you can’t find the energy and the bandwidth, and the mental clarity to do it for yourself, then make sure that you think about, okay. I’ve got a whole family here, right. That needs to, because 80% of autoimmune diseases are diagnosed in women. And so, you know, this is a really, also very relevant subject, you know. 

We have more fat tissue than men and we have breasts, right. We have this pelvis that has a little bit more fat around it, you know. we’re supposed to so that we can bear those babies. And then in that fat tissue maloo of breasts, that’s where our milk comes through to feed our babies. And so, this really becomes important for us to be able to unhook some of this, because a lot of these chemicals that we’re talking about are estrogen mimicking, estrogen disrupting, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And I mean, as you’re saying that I’m visualizing, you know, because we know that where those toxins are sitting is in our fat.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

It is really, it is really remarkable. And just to circle back to what you had said before about, you know, we are the canaries, and this isn’t a betrayal of our body formation. No, we actually shift our thinking and realize that it is a gift. We just sometimes need the support to uncover exactly what it is our body is telling us, so that we can correct it.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And having a really finely tuned subtle energy system like that, that can pick it up earlier is such a blessing. Because then that means you’re going to be a little bit more tuned, aware, educated, collaborative, you know, articulate about, what it is the rest of the world needs to hear. And so, if you can start that dialogue with compassionate curiosity with your system, then it can permeate out to the rest of your, your the rings of your community, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Absolutely, absolutely

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah. So my story is RA too Julie. In my early thirties, you know, and I was able to reverse it within six months. Because I really started that dialogue with my body, asking, okay, body why, why are we killing ourselves right now? Like instead of how do I get out of this as rapidly as possible? I really started asking that question instantly like, oh autoimmune means I’m attacking me. That means I’m at war with myself. When did I first want to die? You know, and that was a really important question. And so, that body that is such a gift that we’re given, you know, it has its own consciousness and it provides information all the time. And it will give that to you if you ask it. So, where is a good place to start, when we’re starting to talk about the toxins and iron in our home environment? Like where, where should we start? Because this is such a huge subject. And people can hear the stats that say, by the time a woman leaves her home she can be potentially exposed to 500 toxins in the morning, right. Before she’s even left the house and so, you know, it’s like, that can become so overwhelming. So, where should they start?

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Well, and I wanna point out that the home war, in my opinion is the place to start that control. We have control but also many people don’t realize that, you know, inside your home, you’re exposed to more toxins than you are out and about. Even if you live in a city. We just don’t think of it that way, but, you know, we’re inside our houses are almost air tight at this point. The chemicals used in the construction and, you know, your furniture. I mean, so it’s, and again, I’m not trying to freak anybody out, you know, it can be overwhelming. And why in RA the right way, for instance we take six weeks. Like this is a process.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

And again, just like every other aspect of improving your lifestyle, it’s not about perfection. I, you know, and it can take years to get, I know much, like because I didn’t have guidance, when I was first starting my healing journey. It took me years to optimize my diet. You know, I would make a change and it would seem better. And, it was this really slow process. And, I found the same thing because I didn’t have people like us guiding me, with cleaning up the products in my home. You know, I thought I was using really green products. And so, a place to start is I say, number one, before I go to which room to start in, ’cause you already mentioned one, is really educating yourself about the products you’re actually using. Because so many of them are green washed and marketed as natural or green, or clean or, and not. And I had fallen into that trap. I, you know, I was having some popular brand things that I thought were so clean and it took me a long time to circle back. So, first is familiarize yourself with what you’re using. And I do tend to, again, we let energy and lack of overwhelm drive where we start, right. So, I think the two biggest rooms in the house to create impact are the bathroom. I mean, those are just the two. So, and you did, you brought up, you know just ridiculous amount of toxins that women are exposed to in our cosmetics and our, you know even early luxury skincare products and our hair care products I mean, and, and, and.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I would say not even, I would say especially our luxury skincare.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

It’s true.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Because you know breast cancer shows up in higher socioeconomic classes more. Where there are treated leather seats and brand new cars and, you know fake fingernails, and bottled plastic water, and dry cleaning, and luxury skincare and haircare products. So, you know, that’s I think a really important thing for us to understand. The more you spend on your cosmetics and your skincare does not necessarily mean it’s better for you.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

No, not even a little bit, absolutely, absolutely. And it also doesn’t mean, you know, that the cheapest one you can find is gonna be grainy.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Although it’s, you know, like in Ayurvedic medicine which of course is 10,000 year old sister science of yoga, sesame oil, cold pressed organic sesame oil, very inexpensive. That’s what I use as a moisturizer, you know what I mean, like that is the least expensive thing.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

If we go back to basics, that’s right. But not from your beauty supply store 

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Again, when we really go back to basics well then that’s the perfect rule. I love, you know I won’t put anything on my body that I couldn’t put in my body. Like it’s a great rule to start with this doesn’t mean I eat my shampoo, no. But could I, and would it be okay? Yes, it would. And so, the bathroom is just loaded with, you know anything that foams from, you know, your soaps to your shampoos, toothpaste, you know is. I often, toothpaste and deodorant are usually the places, you know, I start and again, when I say it’s a process I don’t mean, you know, room by room, like a room a day. I mean, it can take a long time.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

To really, I encourage people to do their research and make their plan. And then as they run out of their products, unless they’re super motivated and they’re like, no, now that I’ve learned this, I don’t want this stuff touching me. That’s great too. But for cost and and stress management.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Level of energy you have, level of brain fog versus clarity, we know.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yes being there done that.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yes.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

So, the bathroom, I think is a huge bang for the buck, because it is so loaded with, can be so loaded with toxin. And so, and again, it’s direct contact, in our mouth, on our skin. And we know we have, you know we absorb through our skin, it’s our biggest organ. So, that’s often where I will tell people to start. And it’s often, one of the easier places for people to find clean products as well. I think, you know, they’ve become thank goodness, popular enough now, that you can easily access those cleaner items, for sure.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

One day I went through, I kinda do this, where I’ll go crazy over something for a day, you know. And then kind of try and get things knocked out. And one day I made, and I’m not suggesting this you guys, so please don’t hear this and say, oh, I’m gonna be a failure. You know, cause I’m not doing this. But one day I made deodorant and toothpaste, and sunscreen, and shampoo, and conditioner, and detergent for dishes, and clothing, and blush, and lips balm, and eye shadow. And I mean, I had so much fun and I, and an anti-aging serum and body butter. And I did this all in a day, but I had gone through pulled the recipes ’cause over the years I’ve done that. Ordered everything, got everything here. So that that day I could just do it. I had the containers, I had the ingredients, you know and I had a plan. 

And so I remember, it reminded me when I was a little girl living in Japan. My mom used to make gyoza. And what we would do is for an entire day, we would stand there, we’d roll gyoza and then we put them away in the freezer and you can do this. Like, you can make large amounts, large batches of something and you can put it in the refrigerator and freezer and it stays good. And so, you can do it that way, if that speaks to you or you can do one thing at a time. But I find that for myself, if I used to do that when my four kids were growing up at my home. On a weekend, I would take a day and I’d make a whole bunch of base things for food, you know and then I would freeze them. And then I could just pull stuff out, add to with fresh. And then I would have a very, you know, quick meal that, and so putting the energy into that organization is a really great way of doing this, you know.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Absolutely, absolutely. And even, I mean, that’s why I say start with, you know realizing what you’re using. And like you said, do your research first. So that whether you’re doing it rotationally as you run out of stuff. You already know what you’re gonna use, right. Or if you’re gonna make it, then maybe you already have the ingredients ready to go. Huge and the, your, I love the cooking hack too, I use all the time. I mean, those of us with auto immunity, don’t especially, you know, moms. We don’t wanna be standing in the kitchen or camp physically. Be standing in the kitchen every night, start a meal from scratch.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And my recipes for that day, by the way, I put together as a little booklet that everybody that’s in the summit gets for free. So those auto-immune detox, you know, home care recipes are part of this. And also Julie is giving her top 10 kitchen swaps to reduce toxic load. So you guys are getting the information, right. It’ll just be, and what I would encourage is also Julie when you just talked about kitchen hacks. I just realized, I was talking to my daughters about this. 

My dad passed away last week and they were, my whole family was here. And I was watching my daughters and my sons in the kitchen as they were making food for a crowd and they have learned to not be afraid of the kitchen, and not everybody has that, you know. And so, you know, I would say, if you can give yourself permission to fail at some of this and to mess up like that. I remember my kids used to watch something on PBS called Magic School Bus. And one, the things I loved about the beginning of it was let’s get messy, you know. And I just thought that’s so brilliant to be able to tell a child, right. So I’d say that to you too, just play.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

And it’s interesting that you say that, my youngest is 21 and she, people marvel at her all the time because she cooks.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Because, you know, she grew up, we cooked. And, she made all of my kids know how to cook are self-sufficient and it becomes a gift. But that, yeah, that willingness to make a mistake. I mean, we can’t get, you know, into adulthood without making mistakes.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

But right be willing to throw a batch away and say, well, that didn’t work. What did I, where did I go wrong? What can I adjust? You know and that’s how we get to the place where this is automatically running in. There’s no work at it anymore, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Absolutely, I made a new recipe last night, as a matter of fact. And I said, you know, we sat down to dinner and I gave the warning. Never made this before, didn’t even taste it before we sat down, you know, but I, you know, if it’s decent next time it’ll be even better ’cause I’ll know how to improve it. And absolutely we ended up being delicious, I mean. But it, you know, you just never know, but it’s.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Well, the reason I’m speaking to this is because I think one of the toxins and it’s that addiction to control is perfectionism. You know, and so I always say like, everybody with autoimmune disease has four Ps. Perfectionism, people pleasing, holding onto the poison and past pain. And also in Ayurvedic medicine, you have a fair amount of Pitta in you, which is that fire. And you know, that can cause inflammation. If it goes awry emotionally, mentally, spiritually, too. And so, you know, the addiction to perfectionism and control. It’ll show up in the kitchen and with finding the perfect non-toxic ingredients. And so, you know, it’s like just letting go without with compassionate and curiosity, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Absolutely

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Nice foundation, not perfection just found nature, right. We want the basis of what we’re doing to be supportive. And we can let go of the perfect or keep trying to let go of the perfect for sure.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right, right. All right so, we talked about toothpaste, we talked about and so what are some of the ingredients in toothpaste? You mentioned shampoo, soap, toothpaste things that foam have got some chemicals in there.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yeah, sodium lauryl sulfate and its cousins, and friends. So anything that, you know, for those of us of a certain age, that phone kind of equals clean, right. Like that was a pattern we had to change just like I used to be afraid of healthy fat. You know, I used to think that foamy things made for good point. We, so there is a little bit, again, of almost a learning curve, if you will of just changing that mindset. That something has to be foamy for it to be cleaning you or doing its job. And so, toothpaste is another one of those that you know, they like to make a nice homey toothpaste. But the other really, for me the big problem ingredient in most toothpaste. Well, I mean, there’s so many, I was going to say the word and I’m like, oh, artificial sweeteners.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right color, yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

But it’s fine, you know, we were, I was definitely like, raise you know, we need more ed, we need more right now. It’s a neurotoxin. I don’t want to put that in my mouth every day. You know, I just, I filtered out of my water. Why would I brush my teeth with it? And so.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Well its gotta, direct correlation to your thyroid health, you know fluoride those or lack of health. So if you remember that elemental table from high school chemistry right. Fluoride, iodide, bromide, and chloride all shared the same column with different weights. And fluoride is heavier than iodide. And so it kicks it off, so our chloride and bromide. And so then I had, we get iodine deficient because of this right. Which are, I would use as part of our immune system. And so, we wind up having this immune imbalance, when we’re introducing fluoride consistently or sealing our teeth with fluoride and, you know, all of this fluoride stuff that had really great marketing help, didn’t it?

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Sure did.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

It’s kind of milk.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Or sugar.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Or sugar, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yeah, definitely some good marketing. And it’s interesting that it is one of the areas where my clients tend to push back the most because people just don’t understand. And they’ve just received that messaging their whole life, you know, but I can’t use it. I can’t use a toothpaste without fluoride, you know, I’m gonna get cavities. Like actually that’s not, that’s not how that works.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

We’ll still give them an alternative, you know, you can do oil pulling. You know, again, 10,000 years old, they knew about those. They didn’t have fluoride. And so oil pulling with a little bit of cold pressed organic Sesame oil. And you don’t need very much ’cause you have to have it in your mouth 15 to 20 minutes, swishing it around. So your saliva is getting added to that. And so if you put a lot in there, you’re gonna be like. We’ve all had that experience in the beginning.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

They did out in the trash can, not in the drain people.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Well, I use old supplement containers, you know, spit it into that, put a lid on it. Yeah, yeah. So, and you can use people always ask me about coconut oil and you can, however, the sesame oil is better tested, and has a bit more of that toxic keylation piece to it. That doesn’t mean it was a little bit stronger for that. And as well as antiviral and anti-microbial, and moisturizing, and it’s good for your teeth. And you can add a couple of drops of an essential oil in there, like clove, or cinnamon, or mint, you know, to make it taste good. And it also has its own properties and swish it around. It’s just, like half a teaspoon, is all you need. And, while you’re in the shower, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

It’s good stuff, it’s yeah. So you get the benefit of not only are you not dumping more toxins into your body, but you’re also supporting your detox with it, so, yeah.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right yeah, and that will reduce your cavity risk which is what the fluoride is meant to do. So, it’s a really, really good. All right, so anything else in the bathroom, we wanna talk about makeup.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I would love to talk about makeup. I wanna touch on the deodorant antiperspirant thing, because again, when I was, I used the word pushback earlier and I was like, oh, that one also gives people push back. And, I yet to have a client who hasn’t eventually made a complete 180. But I have so many clients who arrive and they’re like, well, I have to use an antiperspirant. And so, we first work on breaking all of that because you know most heavily aluminum in them and also not great to be absorbing in your tender skin all day long.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Also right by your breast tissue and lymphatic drainage.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Pathway, we are supposed to, we have to sweat 15 minutes for and so we don’t wanna block that. And then that always leads to well but I stink in these natural deodorants don’t, you know don’t work for me. Oh, when you’re detoxing the other components in your life, ie diets. You recline that actually I don’t stink anymore. 

And so, you know, that’s always exciting for me when somebody who was so dug in, when we first meet and start working on this, you know when we get things dialed in and they’re like, you know I actually don’t have a body of water. And again, information, our body gives us. I know at this point in my life, if I feel like I have an odor, I’m like, okay, what did I eat?

 You know, what did I do? it’s information. It’s, you know, my first the risk body responds of letting me, which is great. It’s not painful. So, I just want everybody to know that’s contemplating a change. If you feel like you do have body odor, it will clear as you clean your diet up and manage your stress better, and do all of the detoxy thing.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

You know, and I would say, also play with us, again, I’m gonna use the word play not work on it. Where I had to find, when I found a commercial, when I was looking for a commercial brand to go from Secret, which is what I used to use, to something that would work for me in my head. I had to try a bunch of them. And I landed on Tom’s of Maine or Jason’s, I can’t remember but it was an apricot one and the others, the other flavors so to speak, wouldn’t work. It was just that apricots one that would work. And so then I use that one for a while until I could transition to something of play with this as you’re going and just experiment. And, you know, instead of having one failure say, well these things don’t work for me. Really stay with it and use, you really are whether you know, it or not, you are a giant science fair experiment. So it’s like, okay, let’s see what this does, you know. So, I would just encourage that to curiosity, you know, so body, how do you do with that? How do you like it? And what information are you trying to give me? Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yes. I went through the same process and, you know we all have different body chemistry.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yep.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

And so my daughter and I were going through the process together and it was fine. We didn’t end up with the same thing didn’t work for both of us. And so, it is the experimental approach is absolutely the way to win, because you’re already taking account for what we talked about before being ready and prepared to fail and get up and try something different. And so it is definitely and I’m not as committed, although you’re inspiring me. I do use several commercial products, but I’m really really careful about what I do use. Because some of my initial trials of homemade stuff were fails.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

And so, you’re inspiring me to try again. I’m gonna use those recipes and just take it to a whole new level and again.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Adjust right, adjust, like, oh, a bit more bitten like clay here might be nice, but I feel drier or a little bit you know, so you just kind of, oh, this is essential oil. I really like, oh, this one makes my armpit breakout you know. Like, it’s, you just kind of get information, your body’s giving you information all the time. So just document it like you would, if you were a scientist, you know.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yeah, I think if it like, you know, driving a car, I mean you don’t get in the car and hold the steering wheel straight and expect wherever it is you wanna go right. That’s what we’re kind of always doing. We’re always navigating. And then, you know, we get one thing figured out and then our body tells us something else, you know. It is, it’s very fluid process for sure.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, all right, so the makeup bag.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

The makeup bag, oh my gosh.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

The toxic bag of goodies.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Where to even start, I wanna just throw this one out just in case anybody doesn’t know, this goes for the makeup. It goes for, you know there’s no federal regulation or household products at all. So anybody listening, thinking, you know this can’t be right there, can’t be all these toxins. They are, the laws surrounding, you know protecting what is going into our cosmetics. I believe I could be wrong about the years. The early forties, I think the last time anything was put into that law to protect us. We have adjusted it’s unique situation in this country. We are, you know, companies are allowed to use almost whatever they want in these products. So I learned a lot by studying, you know what are they doing in Europe? ‘Cause they don’t roll that way in Europe.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

No, they don’t.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

No, not at all, so.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Like a, there that’s we can get even cleaner than that, but like right away. If it’s a product that wouldn’t be allowed to be used in Europe, I’m not using it for sure.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

But there are, now, this was another, again, you’re like a goddess. I never made my own makeup, I never tried. I did stop wearing makeup for a long time. And I went dabble. I would find, you know, a truly clean product and I would use it and it was gross. So, I wasn’t getting the results that I was hoping for. And thank goodness, you know just like finding cleaner food alternatives. Now, there are some really good.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

So many good choices.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

So many good choices, easy to access. They’re not a fortune. Really, really good companies out there that make full clean lines.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

The thing of it is, is when you detox or your emotions and you’re not resentful any more. I always you call resentment the most toxic chemical created on this planet and it’s done right here. It’s not dumped in the air, water and soil by giant corporation, right here. So once you do that work and so then you’re not scrunching your face and consternation about life any longer, right. And then, once you clean up your diet and you’re listening to your body and eating according to your genetics, and what your immune system is not reacting to, and really asking questions with compassionate and curiosity. I don’t wear makeup on my face you know.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

You don’t need it.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

You don’t have to, you know, I do a little blush in the winter time, which I have on right now. And my blush is a cacao powder based with a mineral added to it. Which is so cool when I was like, are you serious? Like, that’s so cool, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

So you’re in a sense when you do use it, you are feeding your skin.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

You’re put with no takeaway there’s no negative impact. And I, do, especially, you know, I work virtually in these days of camera, you know, I like a little mascara. Like, it’s great to have that little pop and again, really good options out there now. But do your homework because this is definitely an area where expensive

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

HomeWork, where you could go to look at the ingredients and what you have, even if it says natural and organic on top of it. Is environmental working group is a great place to go, right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

It’s my absolute favorite for every room in your house. If you are like me, you like shortcuts. The easiest thing I can recommend is the, so environmental working group, but the EWG verified products that’s it. There’s clean is you’re gonna get in a commercial product or makeup. And so I just, for the sake of time, time management and stress, and energy, you know. If I’m going to buy a commercially made products, it’s the EWG verified are the ones that I start with, because then I’m not, you know, why is it a two? Is it a fragrance? Isn’t it an alogen? It’s like, no, these are clean. Good and again, you still may have to play of what’s best for you, but it’s definitely, you know

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah. If it says natural fragrance or natural flavor. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I know and I, it’s interesting. I have had a hypersensitivity to fragrances for years. It’s been a really significant problem. Not a big surprise to eventually find out that I have valine toxicity. And I’m like no wonder. And again, that’s another, we get use to this, you know overwhelm. I have a family member who tries really hard at this point, it took a long time. Like, you know, I can’t sit in the car with you if you’re wearing perfume or, but people don’t even its not just your cologne, it’s your hand cream it’s, I mean, it’s the everything. And many people have used so many products, right. And the air freshener

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

The layering, yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Like their clothes smell, even if they think they didn’t put anything on with fragrance

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

To dryer sheet that their clothes were dried with, yeah, yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

So I love EWG. I love EWG verified and not even just products. It’s the same with, you know, which is off topic but it is a kitchen item, you know, their dirty dozen and clean 15 resources that they put out every year. You know, I, you will not catch me, you know eating conventional off the dirty doesn’t want this plus.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yeah. So, it’s just a fantastic resource to shortcut for people.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

In my cookbook, the autoimmune paleo cookbook. I, you know, I, the tagline on it is anti-inflammatory recipes with seven ingredients or less for busy people. And I would say the same thing is true. And I have the EWG dirty dozen and clean 15 in there and the resources for finding that. But, what I would say is the seven ingredients or less is great for busy people and seven ingredients or less, you know, the fewer ingredients and what you’re using on your skin is also a key, right. If you can pronounce all of them and you know what they are, and you would eat them. And there are only a few, you’re doing really well.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Absolutely, and again, be gentle with yourselves. It’s a process, you know, especially if you’re in the beginning of this cleanup journey, you know it really does take a lot of time. That’s why that kitchen slapped hand out, it’s 10 swaps. And again, I mean it could take 10 months to make those slots, but the impact would be amazing, even if it did, even if it was one a month. It’s huge, really huge.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

My, we have a whole bunch of birthdays in February. Mine was yesterday and then I have a son, and a husband February, right. And so the whole family was gathered ’cause of my dad’s death. And so my daughters were making birthday cakes for everybody at the same time. And, one of them was a red velvet cake and I don’t have food coloring in my home anymore. And my daughter said, do you have any beetroot powder? And I just remember thinking, wow, how cool is that?

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Well done mum.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I know, how cool is that, that she knew exactly, you know what to ask for, for a red velvet. And then when I said, I don’t appear, then she said, okay I saw some beets in there. And then she come, she went about making her own, right. Juicing some beats and experimenting with that to see if it would work. She was like, well, when I drink beet juice, my poop turns red in the toilet. So probably, you know, we’re all laughing about this, you know. So it’s that willingness to really move into something and say, would that work? And you know, oh, oh, I don’t have that. But how about if I tried this? You know and it’s just that with everything, it’s so great.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

It really is. And what a gift you’ve given her, right. And the cake could have turned out like a muddy brown color but it probably still would have tasted delicious.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

It was a muddy brown color, ’cause it was chocolate. It was delicious. It was perfect.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Fantastic and it is, it’s such a gift. And I love the, I mean the other gift you’re instilling in them is the, you know. That full circle of life, with what you guys are moving through as a family to you know, be like, yeah, we’re in this place and you know, it’s also our birthday month.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, yeah. It was really, really beautiful, actually. All right, so what other rooms? One of the things, one of my favorite hacks are detoxifying and environment is houseplants.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yes, I’m around it while you can tell

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Same here, but I have to tell you some things, Julie, one of my patients, he’s also a student of mine, said, I found out that one of the reasons I was having trouble recently is because my house plants had mold. And I went, oh I’ve never considered that. I have, y’all something upwards of 50 something houseplants you know. And she said, I’ve had this one for over 25 years. And it was a great big one and a great big pot. And it had mold, and so, you know, she was talking about like sprinkling diatomaceous earth over the soil every once in a while, you know. And I thought that’s what a great idea, so.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

The whole, you know, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Plants have so much value.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

But, you know, as somebody working on mold toxicity. it was really good to consider. I hadn’t considered it. And that plant that picked up that mold, you know, in the house, pass location somewhere.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right and so maybe creating a day, a year, this is what I kind of thought about maybe a day, a year, that I would go around and re-pot all my house plants, you know, they ask for bigger pots as they grow anyway. So, maybe I could investigate root system, give them new soil, making sure there’s not mold growing there. And so just a little new piece of information, that I had never considered that I got recently.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yeah, now you have me thinking too, about just the mindfulness around that and also the difference between pots that drain and pots that don’t, as well. So, and just for those of you that don’t already have house plants and want to start cleaning up your air. If you have cats, also look into some houseplants are toxic to cats and even dogs as well. So, just make sure you’re knowledgeable.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And toddlers

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

And children.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I thought the human babies you can tell my kids are grown now.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Exactly, that’s what I was thinking about too. I was like, oh yeah and kids.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

All of those creatures need care for.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yes, so what about furniture and carpet? And you know, if you’re building a new house, you know. This off gassing piece, playground equipment is one of the most toxic for our stick that rains on the wood in the Pacific Northwest here, right. It’s emanating our snakes. So, what to do about that?

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Well, still take your kids outside to play. We’ll start there. If you’re getting play equipment for your own home, you know it’s that pressure treated wood that is less expensive and last longer is what has the most arsenic and an off gassing in it. So, just educate yourself on what your options are but also, you know, people tend to think, well my home is newer, so it’s gotta be healthier. And again, the newer the home, the more airtight usually the home as well. All of the adhesives used in your flooring and your carpets and you mentioned your furniture, there are improvements being made. I think it’s by 2022 that the new standards will be in for all new home materials. But again, this is where knowledge is power because just because standards are improving, doesn’t mean like, oh, well then I’m, you know, I’m gonna get a new home in two years and it’s gonna be free of all this stuff. It’s not reducing the levels.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

It will be free of mold. And I think that’s where people.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Well,

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Supposedly

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

And that was, I have a, I built the home I’m in three and a half years ago and was so excited because I was working on my mold toxicity. And, one of the reasons why mold is still an issue is because it eight, they can be in, you know the plywood and the beams and the joist and in those products before the home is even built.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

And then, we’ve created this airtight and now we’re holding the moisture in instead of out. So the new home, I mean, you know we just always have to be aware of what’s going on around us. And I think that that’s the biggest key, you know even front load washers, you know it can be at like a great place for mold to grow and the gasket, if you’re not, you know leaving the door open and careful and checking. But the furniture issue should be improving. You know, we are finally learning that those fire returns that we’re putting on furniture and bedding, and mattresses, and clothes, and baby clothes and baby blankets, you know. We’re just wrapping ourselves up in toxins. And so those numbers also should start improving but here’s where, you know, air purifiers, plants, open your windows, when you can open your windows. Get that air because again, many of us are trained to think you know, it smells good in my house. And so my house is clean and outside is not and it’s actually the other way around. So get some fresh air moving through your home and be mindful.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Get outside every day and move in that air too.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Sunlight, and you can find them. And when were looking for furniture for this home. And there even four years ago, there was furniture that you know, has much lower VOC. No, flame-retardant, another kind of do your homework area. And again, don’t throw all your furniture out, but as you’re making new purchases really be mindful of what you

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Well I used to, I’ve done a lot of woodworking through my life and also I’m a photographer and did my own developing. So a lot of chemicals in both of those things. And over the years, you know, I remember back when we used to put polyurethane varnish on everything, right. And I kinda liked the smell of it. Like I liked the smell of my dark room chemicals, you know it reminded me of home, my dad working in the wood shop. And so, you know, you have to think about those things and you can now find those same exact products that do the job, but with less VOC. So yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Same thing, same thing. And you’re just speaking to my heart. My mom was a photographer. We had a dark room in the house. And so I, you mentioned the smell of the chemicals and I got that memory but I was also a kid that loved the smell of gasoline

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I know me too.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I don’t know what that’s about, but.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And that sticky, sweet smell of the crop dusters that we would go pull, you know it’s just like, oh gosh, you know, yeah.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

RA through toxic burden issue.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, I don’t know why I got RA. Yeah so, but also reversed it, you know, by being able to to bring the awareness to this. Being able to clean up. The first time I did a detox, I was so sick and so crappy. And then I remember remarking several years ago when I was doing, I do a 21 day cleanse, three to four times a year. And it’s not something you pick up off the shelf because auto-immune people usually have in phase one, phase two mismatch. You do not want to up regulate phase one at the same rate, you do phase two. So, and that’s why I got so sick the first time through, but I remember running a half marathon on a cleanse going, wow, I don’t even notice I’m detoxing right now. You know, like, cause I’ve caught up. My body’s now filtering real-time instead of all of the back story

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

That just gave me goosebumps. I mean, that’s you know, that’s my goal.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, and that takes some time to chip away and you know, get that, get all those filtration systems so that they’re operating in real time and not with a buildup of a lifetime. So, which is where we all have to start wherever we’re at.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Absolutely, and progress is progress.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yes, yes.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

We can all get there.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, all right. Well, Julie, is there something we have not talked about that you want to talk about?

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I just, ’cause I have to, ’cause I’m such a geek. Water, I said the word earlier.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, that’s right, big one.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

It is a big one. And it’s a two-fold because, you know. Depending on the quality of the water you’re drinking. If you’re on city water versus well water, I cannot encourage enough, you know, looking into a good water filter as a start. I always recommend a reverse osmosis at least for your drinking water. Ideally, you know the step up from there would be also your shower heads. Again, we want that chlorine and fluoride off our bodies. But, and then if you can, if you’re fortunate, I mean it was one of my most exciting things about building this house was that I got to put in you know, a full, a whole house reverse osmosis system that we just absolutely love. And, I have horses on my property. 

And when I turn that water on, I did not put a whole barn system in. I have troughs all over the property that wasn’t it didn’t really make sense. And when I turn that water on now that smell of chlorine that hits me in the face. I’m just grateful, but that’s not what’s coming out of my taps at home. So, I get a bit by bit, right. Depending on where you are, some kind of filtered drinking water. And because I said that, I need to say, you know drink it out of glass or stainless. Don’t, not out of plastic. Don’t buy the cases of the plastic bottles just give your body a break. And that is on my kitchen swap lists as well. But actually both of those things, the water and the plastic but that’s where they meet. And so many of us spend way too much time drinking out of bottles.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, it’s so true. I had a reverse osmosis system for my whole house and it broke while we were out of town and flooded the house. And then caused a mold problem that we didn’t know about that had to be dealt with several years later. So now we don’t have one. And so I will say, I want to move back to that again but you can buy shower filters. And they’re very easy. I recently moved to Portland for a few months for school and I’m back in my other house now. But, it took literally a half an hour to put a Berkey water filter on the countertop of this house I was renting to stick, you know, filters in every single one of the taps and the shower and boom, boom, boom. You know, I was all done and I had 45 houseplants in the place and, you know opened the window every night. Made sure the modem wasn’t in my bedroom, you know. Lloyd rural, well, you have a talk on EMF all by itself because it’s such a huge, right. It’s a huge one, but things like that you could, you can, you can really do.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I, my daughter is 21. She has done that in every apartment. She’s lived on campus in college. And also your place sounds just like hers filled with plants. She did the filters have the countertop murky. It was easy. If a 21 year old girl or an 18, 19 year old girl can do it, we can all do it.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

It was done. You know and I just wanted to just say that for people who kind of think like, well I don’t have thousands of dollars to spend on a whole house reverse osmosis system and I don’t have those a night, you know but they are very inexpensive. They shell these filters, you can put in your shower head and on the faucets. They really are and very easy to install. So I would just encourage that. And they have to be, you can’t put it on and leave it for the rest of your life.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Right.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Follow the instructions on the package. Make yourself a little tickler file about when to return back to them. But yeah, it works.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Very, very doable.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

What else, what else? There’s so many things that we can talk about.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

How many hours do we have?

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I know.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Yeah, but just, just that reminder. So we didn’t really touch on, so I’ll just throw it out there as a, you know. Room by room right. We started in the bathroom when we talked about the kitchen, because to me again, you know you’re putting that stuff on your own and in your body every day in the bathroom. And you’re, you know, hopefully using your kitchen every day as well. But you know, you touched on the, you know, the laundry room and the cleaning products you’re using and, you know just start to really notice what you’re what you, to everything you touch, what is it

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Again, it’s back to basics vinegar. You cannot go wrong with white vinegar.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

So true, it is so true. So I always say, you know room by room, bit by bit, be gentle. Yes, you’re going to try some stuff that you’re not gonna like and that’s okay. You just try something new. And when you think you’ve done it all, look around again. ‘Cause I’m that person, I just realized I’ve been using like a normal people, drip coffee pot for I don’t know how long the craft is stainless levelly and it hit me. I was like, Oh my gosh, the rest of it’s plastic. Like even though my water filters or the filter coffee filter was metal but it’s still not everybody needs again. It’s not about perfection, but for me personally I am working on BPA toxicity, toxicity, so on. And I had this idea of like, but I’m so clean. And I’m avidly, I don’t use plastic. I don’t have plastic in my kitchen.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right, I had to whisper to my daughter, at my mom’s house. She still has some plastic leftover containers and my daughter’s lateling steaming hot things into it. And I had to go up behind her and whisper in her ear. Don’t put hot things in plastic please hunny, well I’ll go find you a glass jar.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I think it was my pro tip for, you know the glass containers with the hot food. Don’t put the plastic lid on it while you’re not either.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Right, right. The heat is what makes all of that get released so

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

So many layers, so many. So for those of you wondering, ’cause I brought it up. What I did about the coffee pot is I got an old school electric fully stainless percolator. And I have to say, makes the best coffee ever. And there’s not a stick of plastic, you know that pop anywhere. And again, you know, I do this for a living. You know, I was thinking, well, I don’t use pods, right. If it’s not a curate that wasn’t, those are to me, right. You’re running hot water through plastic, so.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I will say that people don’t like me much. I live in and I’m, I always take people off of coffee. So hopefully it’s not even an issue.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

And to be fair, I, I was off of coffee for a really long time and.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I find that most people with autoimmune disease in their genetics, they do not process caffeine very well. And so it can cause inflammation, you know it can contribute to some of the problems. And so, I’m always trying to get people to drink dandy blend or Pomo or something different than coffee, so.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

I guess and there’s PU, I think Sip Herbal, the name of the company. There’s a new product out there for those that are like, oh, there are so many good alternative.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

There are, there are, yeah. Thank you so much, Julie. And again, the kitchen swap tool, the 10 swamps for your kitchen, we are going to have linked to Julie’s talk here and I’m excited for you to see it and to start that process and remember to be kind and gentle with yourself. And allow the part of you that has that perfectionistic streak to go play. Sit down, have a nap.

Julie Michelson, NBC-FMHC

Thank you anyway.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

That’s right. I appreciate your input. All right, so everybody, until next time be well.