The Precision Medicine Approach to Neurodegenerative Diseases and Total Body Health

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You bet I can. Anything for you, buddy. Thank you. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I have to confess. This is the second time we’ve done this. I forgot to hit record last time. He’s nice enough to do it again. So, very cool guy. So, appreciate that. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

No problem, bud. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

He has an amazing… and we’ll talk more about it. I think it’s like 45,000 square feet clinic and just the cutting edge stuff for basically training and brain injuries and things like that called the Resilience Code. It was found in 2016. He had a vision to create a comprehensive health and performance of personalized wellness plans, and Dr. Prusmack is certified functional medicine through IFM, an exclusive member of ILADS. He’s the only board certified neurosurgeon in the United States who also holds a functional medicine certification. That’s really cool. He’s a primary neurosurgical consultant for the Denver Broncos, United States Olympic Committee with a specialty in neurodegenerative diseases concussion, post-concussion syndrome, and performance medicine, and we’re talking before the interview here really about how traumatic brain injury… It’s just so different if you have mold or you have Lyme, and they really play a part together. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I should mention, if you look at his 12-page CV, it’s like Harvard, Columbia, tons of publication, book chapters, tons of presentations on stuff. You got to look up all the words on the title. So, he’s gracing our presence. I’m humbled. Thank you so much. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You’re welcome, Kent. It’s a pleasure to be here and your knowledge astounds me every time that we talk. I don’t know whether you’re a scientist, a doctor, or a spirit from above, but you help my patients, and you help a lot of people. So, I thank you for all that. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, thank you so much. So you practice precision medicine. What is that? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, so precision medicine is a type of medicine that looks at studying the individual and getting data on the individual rather than studying a disease. In traditional allopathic medicine, we use evidence-based studies, and what the goal is is to prove the efficacy of a certain intervention on a population that’s selected. So, what you’re looking at for example if it’s a cholesterol medicine, you try to make a very small window of very similar characters and people, and then you put them in two groups. I know you know this, and the point is you actually get an answer on whether a statin lowers cholesterol in a statistically significant way. So, it gives you a very weird number. It gives you a success rate on an average population. Well, I’ve never treated an average population. I’ve treated every single human being one-on-one. 

So, it’s almost like quantum mechanics where if you look at something on a small scale, you need quantum mechanics math. If you see something on a large fast scale, you need general relativity math. The point is it’s the frame of reference with which you’re making the analysis. So, it’s a very hard thing, and I know you know this, Kent. People are looking to provide tools. Big pharma, they’re looking to provide medical devices. They’re not looking to provide you with the right medical device for the right condition. So, what precision medicine is is it’s, all right, throw out all of the old thinking. Let me test you, and let me have you tell me what are your goals, what are your symptoms. 

I’ll throw out a blanket of blood biomarkers, electrophysiology of the brain, MRIs, radiology. I’ll do kinematic studies. I’ll just get everything, and then when everything comes back, we then play doctor, and what we do is we come up with a treatment plan, and the important piece here is we track it. S, in other words, I am firing blanks, like trial and error is what every doctor does, but what I’m doing is tracking what I’m doing so that I can learn quicker and through data analysis can get feedback on, okay, does this person with high cholesterol who you took off the stupid statin medicine that you put on berberine, did that lower the cholesterol? If not, well, that’s a good data point just for my data bank because over time, it may be in this subpopulation with these genetics, this statin doesn’t work, but unless you have time points of here’s a person in a sick state, and here’s all of the multiomics information, like every level from social down to molecular. You get all these levels of information. You get a pattern. So, then you get a person’s what we call, I guess, disease signature or health signature, and that evolves, and we track it over time. So, precision medicine is doing on-the-go N equals one medicine with a lot of data analysis and outcomes predicting, using this type of mathematics. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, well, that was really profound, and I agree where we’re taught evidence-based medicine is looking at this giant double-blind placebo-controlled trial, but you also look at those, and they’re so able to skew those, and they do one little thing. It’s like you look at the trials of two non-steroidal companies, whoever funded it, theirs came out on top, and by adult person who works in one of the CMOs where they do all the testing, but they’re not supposed to know what’s placebo and they know what’s what, and they get a huge bonus if it passes. So, they’re doing whatever they can, and also, I was looking at the approval of gabapentin, you know? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You look at the curve of versus placebo for pay. It was no different. There was one little dip, and they go, “Oh, right there,” and it’s crazy, and it’s true, and I tell patients, “This study shows this, but you’re not a study.” 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

That’s right. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I pay so much more attention now to case studies. Someone saying, “Hey, this works for this population,” and you look at the levels of evidence. It’s supposed to be a big double-blind placebo-controlled study, meta-analysis, retrospective studies, then case studies, but the lowest level of evidence that’s shown to be the least accurate is societal guidelines, and what do doctors look to? They’re shown to be 20 years behind. They’re shown to be totally biased. They only look at certain studies. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Exactly. I think of evidence-based medicine as the old textbooks in my library that when I need to learn what I think I can take away from a medicine or medical device or an intervention, that’s information that I blend in with my other peer review with experts like yourself that I have with my experience, databank and my database and my brain, and you know what a clinician does. A clinician sees so many patterns. We can feel when something’s off, and as long as you can start to identify the why and over many iterations, you’ll see that why several times, but if I need to know, like we talked about Morgellons today. 

Okay, complicated subject, but the point is at the end of the day, I have to help somebody, and you had a suggestion based off of expert pure guidance and what your experience is. Well, that may be life-saving. Well, the difference for me is that’ll be imprinted in my database, and I will have the data before and after all of these things, and if some pattern emerges, we’ll now have ability to clinically do analysis to say, “Hey, look. Here’s my Hansel and Gretel breadcrumb. This is how it happened,” rather than saying, “Let’s get 10 people with Morgellons. Let’s do five with silver.” It’s not real. They never fix anything. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, and even they show that a proven new therapy takes on average 17 years, except in the mainstream medicine, unless it’s a new drug in the sales force, and I said, “Why is that?” “Well, doctors don’t read medical journals.” They don’t. I was just talking to this Harvard glycosylation expert today, which I’m into because they’re trying to do this assay, but he had to teach a class, or he said, “There [inaudible 00:09:51] doctors.” He goes, “How many people… ” We were talking about medicine. How many people actually have read a journal article from front to back in the last three months? I said, “Probably zero of them.” He said, “Exactly,” and he goes, “Very few would read the abstract,” and the abstract often the studies show is not supported by the data in the study, but that’s not even why it takes so long for a proven new therapy. If you give a doctor, “Here’s 50 studies showing what you’re doing isn’t right or correct or the best,” they don’t want to hear it. “Don’t tell me. No, no. My patients are different. I’m doing fine.” 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, so trying to make a difference in providing a system, which over time we hope to spread out and be a type of data-driven multi-center, I guess, health and performance where not only do we offer all the data and analysis and testing, but also under one roof, we provide the care as well. So, we have a gym and we work with strength and conditioning coaches. Let’s say their dorsiflexion on their foot is inadequate on the left side and they have back pain and the training condition coaches on force plates can see that discrepancy and see asymmetries. Well, then they can come up with a personalized rehabilitation program that gets worked into their daily workouts where on my end, I’m looking at all their brain pieces. I’m putting them in neurofeedback testing, doing a brain map, neurofeedback, retesting, looking at all the biomarkers and providing a life plan. Whether someone comes in and wants to rule the world and run a business or someone can’t get out of bed and has an invisible illness that no one’s figured out, we take care of the whole gamut. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I love that, and I love getting a lot of data, and when people say, “Doctors. Oh, cardiac syndrome, fibromyalgia. It’s fake.” Well, when we get our base panel, about 30, 40 tests, we can pick them out without talking to the patient and how sick they are in about 80% of the time. There’s patterns like you’re saying. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

That’s right, and what’s important, like for me to make decisions and do something that I haven’t done, I really need to be comfortable, and I will never do something that I don’t research, look all over, but I need to hear it from someone like you or a Jill Carnahan, a Dan [Kinlener 00:12:29], like a PhD in neuroscience like the Lotta Granholm who’s the head of DU’s Nobel Anti-aging University, and we partnered with them so we could have an academic overtone, and I think that’s what’s important, and this ILADS chat room is amazing. I mean, I have more articles to read, and they’re specifically about what I want. They’re from people like us really bright from all over that have different perspectives, and we just throw our chum in the water to help the rest of us, and we get chum back, and it’s probably the single most effective learning tool I’ve had in several years to be honest with you. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I can’t [inaudible 00:13:15], and it’s like there’s so many posts and cool stuff to read. It’s just like, “Oh my God. It’s sucking up all my time,” but it’s worth it because you just learn so much more than if you were… You just never think about it. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Exactly. So, that’s what we do in Denver here and 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

That’s cool. So, it’s the Resilience Code. What made you call it that? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Well, there were two things I wanted to emphasize, and I wanted it catchy because my goal is not to put my name on a billboard. My goal is to change the way young adults and healthy people acquire their health that they see their health in high definition in an early stage. We go to school, and I can read Chaucer and Shakespeare, but I can graduate from Harvard and not know where my liver is, how to do my taxes, and I don’t know what a fever really represents. I think that’s a big problem because now when everyone’s having fever and dying, they look at someone like Fauci, and they say, “Okay, well, I guess he’s the one that we should listen to.” The point is that’s the one you should not listen to. His responsibility is the nation, which is a macro-health economic issue. It is not the one-on-one issue. So, where the heck 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It’s to make money on vaccines. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, macroeconomic issue. So, your primary care doctor, unfortunately, overworked, underpaid. Insurance companies dictate what they can do. How can I help someone when I’m only allowed to do X amount of tests if I say X amount of things? You can’t, and why the heck am I doing what someone else who’s not a doctor told me to do because they have some board and they… No. They found what is cost-effective and they build guardrails around it, and we have to go through the hoops. It’s total horseshit. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Doctors let it happen, and they always want to treat the patients. So, it’s come down to that, yeah, and it’s basically like these HMOs and things. They’ll get rid of the 20% every year that isn’t cost-effective. I mean, the doctors that are doing more tests, making more diagnosis, prescribe more things, getting people better, and they’ll just cut them and say they’re not cost-effective, and you get their bonus for doing nothing. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

That’s why the Resilience Code is cash. For large catastrophic traditional medicine interventions, we use insurance. So, someone needs to be referred to shoulder surgery. Someone needs an MRI. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

That’s what insurance is for, not routine care. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

That’s right. Unfortunately, hopefully, get some of the meds processed, but they know here’s your burn, here’s the membership, and this is what the outcomes will be, and you have a 35% chance of getting this better or a 65% chance because that’s what our database is meant to over time give. So, we’re selling outcomes and health certainty at the end of the day, but what I was getting to is I want to take what the gym is, what a high school kid’s health education, their coaching, and the primary care doctor and make Resilience Codes where people can come in, pay a price. You get your primary care, your functional medicine, your strength and conditioning coaches or PhDs. 

You have rehab and so you learn how to squat for football. You learn maybe what ADD is. You have all of these things that you get health intelligence as you get older. So, why do we need a gym where someone just says, “Go play in the jungle gym”? I want someone to test me and say, “This is exactly what you want to do for the goals you have. If I want to be faster, if I want to be thinner, great. You studied. I’ll do your personal program here, and you trial and error make me get that. That’s the same thing that happens with the functional medicine piece. Someone’s got Lyme’s disease or what I deal with is post-traumatic brain symptoms or post-concussive symptoms, so we see the hardest patients who had to drop out of the NHL/NFL. They’re four years out. 

They still have ringing in the ears. They still have blurred vision. No one’s been able to help them. They’ve gone to all the great places like BU or universities, NFL, and the issue is they didn’t take a 360-degree view of what’s going on, and a lot of these guys have mold toxicity. They have Lyme. There’s a study out of Harvard that post-concussive syndrome of people who are two years out with symptoms, 38% tested positive on CDC criteria for the western blot. 38%. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Wow. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

So, what I’m looking at, again, this is this 360-degree view of your health. I’m looking at Lyme’s disease to help out a brain injury. Why? Because, as you know, the neural inflammation induced from chronic Lyme’s disease and the microglial activation, what’s that causing? Neuroinflammation. What’s that causing? Inability for neurons to remain plastic and an inability for neurons to communicate. What do you get? Brain fog, vestibular dysfunction. So, you treat the Lyme disease and all of a sudden all the brain stuff goes away. It could be Lyme, could be heavy metals, could be an abusive childhood. It could be drinking, any toxicity that could pollute the brain. So, that’s 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

We’re saying like mold seems to be a big one. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Mold’s big. Yeah, I gave a talk at ILADS on mold issues, and we’re studying mold issues, and it turns out on people that we see, so the average person is about 42 years old. The average length of symptoms are four years. So, these are big-time people that have 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

They’ve been a lot of places. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

One-third. 38% Lyme, 33% mold, 11%… No, 15% gut dysbiosis, which is huge. The gut piece and the gut brain stuff. That’s a propagator in a lot of 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It got brain access more and more. We’re just hearing more. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

People have toxicities. So, what we call this whole field is environmental subconcussion. It’s the field that looks at environmental toxicities that could upregulate chronic neural inflammation, and that what pulled the trigger… What loaded the gun was the concussion, but what’s really pulling the trigger are the ongoing toxicities. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Did you come up with that? I love that term. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

No, no. A team in Toronto did, and there’s a really good article out of Frontiers back maybe 2018. It’s called Environmental Subconcussion, and they wrote a editorialized academic hypothesis, and when I saw that, I was like, “That glued exactly what I do.”

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I know. I just love the term. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

It’s functional medicine directed at brain injury, and it’s a multiomics approach making sure that the treatment comes. Hey, you may have to treat the social situation. You may have to treat a biologic situation, give stem cells. You may have to give peptides. You may have to do all these things, but if you don’t look at it in multiple layers and figure out the pattern of why this person has this flavor of post-concussive syndrome or CTE versus this one, like you need all of those layers, and that’s the reason we do all this data. It’s to start making a map of people’s health, and they’re going from a healthy state to a pathology state. Kent, people don’t go from like, “I’m healthy,” to, “I’m diseased.” There’s a continuum. Something happens. We have zero info on that. So, I want to shine the light in high definition on that piece, and I want to figure out the middle game of all these things so I can give you information that helps you. Doesn’t help a drug company, but it helps guide you make decisions. It helps people understand the why. I think it’s a big deal. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, no, it is, and people have to take an active role in their healthcare now especially when they’re sick, and I think people get… Or more and more, it seems like everyone’s sick or everyone has a family member who’s sick or a friend in a party, and they’re always like, “Oh my God.” They go through it, and you say, “Well, I would do this.” They say, “Well, my doctor says it does, but that’s not happening.” “Well, how’s that working for you?” You know? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, I’ve stopped. I would write lab slips form right there, but now I just give them a device, whatever, but let them call because a lot of them will never move forward even though they’re miserable. You know?

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, and Kent, I mean, I can’t tell you how many questions I get on COVID, okay? I’m a neurosurgeon functional medicine doctor. I now have maybe 100 post-COVID patients because what happens, the pathophysiology of post-COVID is very similar to Lyme. It’s upregulation of cytokines and chronic inflammation and dysregulation, clotting factors, et cetera, but the interesting point is when you talk to all of them, they have nowhere to go. They have nowhere to go because their primary care doctor has an N equals maybe 10. They send them to the hospital if their oxygen’s low. They don’t believe in the Ivermectin, which works amazing, and I have. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So does hydroxychloroquine. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

I mean, the second an elderly person has it, I go doxy, hydroxychloroquine, and Ivermectin immediately. Yeah, it’s not randomized controlled, but they’re alive. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I mean, if we were just to give the population, give them all, vitamin D, zinc, vitamin C, flavonoid, and then if they test positive, give them Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, there would be no pandemic. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

That’s right. That’s right. You need to look under the hood of the car to make sure you’re not going to break down before the storm comes, before COVID came. “You had metabolic syndrome, and you’re in your 80s, tough shit, guy or girl. Sorry. Your unhealthiness led to your demise.” I have compassion for anyone that passes away, but I also understand that we should be educating people in a way that people are compliant, and it’s not 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

In terms of COVID, you can 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You can.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

… as soon as you write something. I wrote something just on vitamin C, zinc, and vitamin D, and within 12 hours, FTC take down. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Right, so this is what you do. You set up a membership like Resilience Code, and then you take your own data and your own types of information, and you only allow it on a portal that they can access such that it is as authentic as we’re responsible for, and they come to me to say whether they get the vaccine or not or our group, and we have integrative cardiology, integrative oncology. We have so many different specialties. We have psychology. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I love that. So, give different memberships or how does it work? You have healthy people. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Oh, yeah, we have a lot of athletes. Yeah, so we get a lot of elite athletes that we become the primary care performance doctor, looking at micronutrients, hormones, things like that, but also supporting them so they can recover quickly. So, it’s a membership model. The model is more like a golf membership. You pay X. X gets you access to a lot of things. You have your own clinical psychologist, your own functional medicine doctor, referral to cardiologist, a screen of oncology, neurofeedback, and you have testing three times a year and any other testing in between. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I’m interested to try it myself. Actually, so how do you find out more? Are there different packages or is there… How would someone find out? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You bet. So, if you go to our website, it’s www.myresiliencecode.com, and on there, you can type in your information, and we have our chief experience officer. So, our CXO. Her name is Andrea Bieber. She used to work with me at the broncos and used to deal with their recovery services, and she’s a wonderful sales and customer experience. So, she’ll go over the different packages, six months, 12 months. What level do you want to include the brain? Do you want to include the oncology? Do you want to include these modules?

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I love it. Hey, this right here is the future of medicine. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

It’s got to be. The one thing we haven’t ironed out is economics. It’s expensive. So, what our business model is, let’s figure this out. Let’s take very good care of influential human beings that will give us an infrastructure of power. Let’s be authentic doctors that all communicate, all communicate with academic institutions to keep us all honest and not greedy, and let’s then own all of the health data and start to populate in the private sector what these health things mean. Let us figure out in part what the vaccines do, not in the evidence-based model. That’s your guy’s job. That’s fine, but in the N equals one model, and that’s what we’re trying to achieve, and it’s gone very well, but starting a business like banging your head against a brick wall every other day. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

No, it’s tough, but medicine is getting… It’s worse. Again, it’s so population-based, and everyone needs healthcare, but look at the healthcare everyone’s going to get. It’s scary. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

It is. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

If you go to the ER, have a broken leg or something, okay, but if you have something that’s complicated, it’s not in a little box, you’re going to have the toughest time. People just go, “Well, I’m going to the Mayo Clinic. I’ll see you in two months,” you know? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, and Kent, I’ll bet you’ve heard this. Oh my God. I had this problem. I went to the ER. It was measles every 12 hours, but one person, thank God, cared about me, and they’ve helped figure out and got me a floor room or some nice nurse or some caring doctor. It always comes down to someone who takes responsibility and earnestly empathically figures out how to help. It’s not a traffic cop. That goes for anyone, any doctor. There’s two type of doctors, the doctor that’s on time and the doctor that listens. You need a doctor that empathically listens.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I just love to hear, “I am so behind,” because all of a sudden, it’s four hours I’ve spent with the patient, and then the next person, but they’re used to it in alcohol, and I just get in and go in depth as much as I can, and yeah, I’m the least on-time doctor ever, but people don’t get mad at me because they know they get the time too, you know? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, so trying to fight the machine a little bit, rage against the machine and see what turns up. Right now, we have over 250 members, yearly memberships. We have virtual versions, so we can do virtual training, virtual neurofeedback, virtual blood work. We send our phlebotomists to whoever. Another thing. Kent, I know you know this. Phlebotomists are important. I can’t tell you how important one is. We’ve had two wonderful ones, and I’ll tell you, they make the entire process work. Why? Because they will take care of every wreck. They will get everything in a timely manner and you get good results. I can’t tell you how many times you have a bad phlebotomist. The patients get so pissed because someone lost it in the mail, didn’t work, got to come get it again. So, I think 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

multiple sticks. It’s like I did anesthesia, and you have a person. You go visit them after you saved their life 10 times. So, you’re so proud of yourself and you go in. They’re like, “Oh, I remember you,” and you’re like, “Yeah, you missed my IV the first time.” 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, exactly. It’s misdirection. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, it’s true. It’s like your front desk person, same thing. It’s like [inaudible 00:29:57] or leery that we don’t take insurance either like, “Hey, do these people care?” 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Can’t do it. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

If it’s not everyone in the organization does, one person can give people the wrong impression, and that’s true. So, that’s one of our doctors. He’s a family practice. He’s like we are now data collectors for the government, and it’s, “Refer, refer, refer, refer.” He was in our office seeing some patients, but it was… ” He just would refer out. We hardly ever refer. It’s like you got to take care of all the GI stuff. It’s maybe send a person to a cardiologist a couple times a year, but is that you’ve got to become the expert. I mean, there’s no way you can do neurosurgery or something like that, but I really think you could study old literature and be better than the specialists like gastroenterology. They’re just now discovering probiotics and the microbiome, the gut brain axis, and if you have a chronic endocrine problem, don’t go to endocrinologists. I tell them, “Don’t go to no B.” For chronic infection, don’t go to an infectious disease doctor. They don’t believe in it. So, it’s crazy. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, they actually serve a different science. They serve the outer skirts of disease. They’re disease helpers. They mitigate it. They don’t mitigate it. They help palliate disease after you’re already there. They’re great at it. If I have a bad staph infection of septic, America’s got a great system. Why? Because it’s directed at a thing. The person’s name doesn’t matter, right? but until they get there, like how did they get there? Who’s checked on their immune system all the time? Who knew what their food sensitivities were? Who knew if they had heavy metals that were dysregulating their immune system that led to them getting recurrent infections? Who didn’t get them to immunologists for IVIG if they had immunodeficiency? So, that’s the problem is we need each other, but we’re talking about two different games, and our game is about health. 

Their game is about disease. Their game is fixed with surgeries and devices and pharma. Ours is fixed with science and helping people with experience who integrate and truly want to help. You need an infrastructure of a four seasons type place. So, communication is key. is spoken to. Everyone understands the mantra of the Resilience Code. Why? Because I can’t spend that much time with every patient, but my strength and conditioning coach that’s trained me for 10 years, if he gets a patient that has ADD, he knows the dopamine pathways. He knows the reason for tremors, and guess what? One of my patients who has a question to him will get that answer. What do they think? What a great place. I really understand everyone is on the same page.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, and everyone sounds passionate about what they do or advice that you said like, “Go in the hospital.” There’s a hospital with sepsis, and I talked to the ICU doc and said, “Well, can you give me a high dose of vitamin C? They’re like, “Why? Why would I do that?” I’m like, “It’s been in every journal for the last couple years. It’s the only thing to reduce the mortality and sepsis.” So, the nurses were going to pass that. They wouldn’t tell them. The one feisty nurse goes, “I’m going to make him do it,” and then so she comes back, and she’s all smile. “They’re going to do it.” In about 12 hours later, I get a little cup, 500 milligrams of vitamin C, and they didn’t even know the studies, and I gave them the studies, and I doubt they read them. 

Or the other time I went in, I was out to dinner with my girlfriend, and their kids were like, “Your eye is so cool.” I’m like, “What are you talking about?” I thought, “It’s awesome,” and I’m like, “I better go check.” I looked in the bathroom and I’m just blown people just my whole life, right? So, I’m like, “I think I need to go to the ER,” and I go in. They’re talking. I’m like, “Look, my brain’s dying. Give me progesterone.” I’m calling people for peptides, and she’s like, “Yes. I told them about the progesterone. We’ll help [inaudible 00:34:14].” So, that’s neat. I said, “So, you’ll do it?” She goes, “We’ll read the studies.” “So, you’ll do it?” “No.” It turned out to be a [inaudible 00:34:23]. It was, growing up, one pupil is always bigger than the other, and I took antibiotics three days before, started go round, and that was my [inaudible 00:34:32] thing. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

That’s so interesting. Wow. That’s a good, interesting story. See? N equals one. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, I could’ve seen that. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Now, you know about it. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

They didn’t ask anything. They just said, “You’re fine.” CT, then MRI, and a pituitary MRI, and I go nothing, like what do you think it is? We don’t know. [crosstalk 00:34:52] curiosity.

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

The MRI was a good move at least. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. So, concussion. Talk about concussion. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You bet. So, people are hyperfocused on the diagnosis, which is about 10% of the problem, but it is the biggest problem front and center on stage, and the reason is because before you can actually discuss something, you have to define something, and in order to define it, people love objective findings. They don’t like wishy-washy findings. End of the day, concussions are diagnosed by health professionals. No tests, nothing else. Just like anything else we diagnose, we are supported with physical findings, radiographic findings, but it’s us that say concussion. So, my job with the Broncos, I’m on the field. I travel with them. The little guy or big guy that goes in the tent, and I help decide whether or not someone’s concussed, and if I’m suspicious, we will then take him to the locker room and do a protocol, and that protocol is a very smart what we call scout five or sketch six, and it’s a sideline concussion assessment tool. 

It has the best test. It has the post-concussive symptom score. Everything done data-wise, and it’s extremely objective. So, the NFL has done a wonderful job at objectifying it because they had a social pressure because people are sick, and we don’t know exactly why. Now, I’m not saying head injury causes CTE, but there’s some association. So, anyway, but everyone’s so hyperfocused on take them out of the game. Okay, they have a concussion. All right, we got that. Okay, now, what do we do with them once we say they have a concussion? We’ll keep them out of the game. Okay, but if I break my ankle, don’t I need rehab? Yeah. So, you’re saying just because it’s a confusing and a little more difficult to understand than the ankle, we don’t have to go rehab it. 

No. They only have rehab for people who are in a coma. That makes no sense. So, neurorehabilitation early is critical. So, I call it a hardware problem. Our wires, they are a bunch of highways, and when you bang your head, certain highways get potholes. Some highways blow up and some highways remain, and then inflammation occurs. So, if you’re trying to get to work, now your brain has highways with a bunch of fog on it, and what is these fogs? This metaphor is for my balance is off. I’m dizzy. I’m nauseous. I don’t like the lights around me. I feel like I’m falling down. I’m sad. I can’t get out of bed. I’m depressed, whatever it may be, and the problem is you’re like, “So, don’t you want to look at the highways and fix them?” So, what should you do? Test what highway is busted and rehab it so you can fix the hardware problem. Now, if you fix the hardware problem, then what are the things I’m talking about? It can throw off your balance system. People need a vestibular evaluation, everybody, and they need vestibular rehab. They need their autonomic nervous system tested. Dysautonomia or the hypersensitivity of our fight or flight, it’s huge because it can cause all of these things I’m talking about. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Huge. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Huge. So, if you’re not doing orthostatics for 10 minutes, you’re missing out on something huge. If they have POTS, they need Levine protocol, propranolol, midodrene, and that’s the reason people don’t get better. So, the reason is is people on the front end, they don’t look at the hardware and the software, the hormones, the nutrients, the oxidation, the mitochondrial dysfunction. That’s the fog. So, if you don’t look at that, then you’re missing on how the fog over time will make the potholes remain and make it very difficult to drive. So, that’s why we look at concussion like hardware problem, software problem. Software is environmental subconcussion. Screen for toxicities, inflammation, imbalances, genetics. Piece that puzzle. Rehab the hard wiring and let’s see what we get, and that’s what Resilience Code does. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Nice, nice. Actually, just by the way, you mentioned POTS. We’re doing it on a little pilot study on just BPC and TB4 frags for POTS because we find they just get better. We don’t even have to think about it. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Really?

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

But also, you should do a study with the Denver Broncos. Give them all BPC/TB4 frag every day to prevent a concussion. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, so again 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Or treatment. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

… Macroeconomics. NFL has a responsibility to entertain and keep guys safe and keep… They’re not interested in someone either augmenting or testing that experience that would get in the way of their game. I respect it. I understand it. That you can’t look at it as a team, but each individual player deserves a performance doctor that has their brain mapped before they enter the NFL, see what the NFL does to it, and give an honest opinion on… and help them along the way, and that’s what I do. So, yeah, I am on the field, and I’m a consultant, and I love helping the kids or young men, but my intellectual interest is helping each one on one doing a deep dive into the functional medicine to put together this environmental subconcussive burden together with some of these hardwiring problems. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I have a doctor, buddy, who has a couple ex-NFL players that can’t find their way home. I’m going to have him send them to you if you’d like. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Oh, yeah. I mean, we find so many different things because we have something to do. I can’t change the past, so I can’t change the concussion, but I can make you healthier, and instead of me just pretending if I’m some energy healer or a witch doctor may work in some cultures. Well, I want something that has data. 

So, I’m not going to treat you unless I have a bunch of tests. If I have a bunch of tests, I’m going to look at you and say, “Your magnesium’s low. You have a high deoxyguanosine level. You need antioxidants. You need alpha-1-acid. This is why. You got it? We’re going to track this. We’re going to see if you get better. If in three months you get better and these are better, okay, there’s our treatment pathway. So, you involve the customer or the client into that pathway. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

At the end of the day, if they understand what’s going on, and they won’t in the beginning, but football players are bright. I mean, these athletes, they seek, and they can smell what’s good for them. Man, you give them the right trail, they never get hurt. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, I mean, but they tend to just let them go, like nothing we can do, you know? Post-concussive syndrome. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Again, it’s not on there. It’s not their goal, and it’s not because they’re bad people. It’s because they’re looking at a different view. It’s relativity versus quantum mechanics. How do I keep everybody 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I love that analogy. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

True. It’s a different scale. It’s a frame of reference. My frame of reference is I care about you, Peyton Manning. I care about the team, but the way I have to care is different, and the way that you treat is different. It’s not inadequate. It’s just when you’re making global decisions, like if you got to bomb a country, it’s not an N equals one decision. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

That whole like how many people are going to get better? You don’t care about this particular person. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

That’s right. So, again, I just think you almost need a hardcore philosopher to help ethically divide, hey, this is a mathematics and thought process meant for this world. This is one for this world. So, when you see a politician talking like this, they have to talk like that or not because they’re actually trying to deal with the macroeconomics of some stuff.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It’s true. People say, “I want an honest politician.” No, you don’t. They would never be elected. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You want a great liar. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, yeah, they have to be. If they tell the truth, you’re going to hate them. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You want a great liar that keeps you safe, keeps your economy good, and keeps your kids healthy. If your person can lie to do that to whatever, good job. That’s the way I look at it. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, that’s true. So, you talk about CTE. Tell us about CTE. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, so there are people who have head injuries that don’t do well after several head injuries, and they get a neurodegenerative disease that they call CTE, which is chronic traumatic encephalopathy. It is a pathologic diagnosis. It is not a clinical diagnosis. What does that mean? That means that it’s only diagnosed for sure post-mortem. So, you have to be dead. You need a pathologist. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

If you have that diagnosis, you’re in trouble. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Or not, or you’re in a better place than we are. So, what gets you from head injury to that is a mystery. So, it’s something that happens over time. It does not correlate with the intensity of concussion, not directly with the number of concussions although statistically, if you had more concussions, they are more likely to have it, but it’s not a one-to-one ratio. So, there hasn’t been a good connection. There are some things that fall out, and one thing that seems to correlate is something called subconcussion. It’s actually not the number of concussions, which are defined as I hit my head and I have an alteration of a neurologic function for any amount of time. A subconcussion is I hit my head, but I don’t have a neurologic change. So, what does this mean? If I’m a boxer, a lineman, a ballerina, and a defensive back, okay, boxer, really bad subconcussion, why? 

Their sport is to absorb as many subconcussive blows as possible, and they get one concussion at the end when they get hit. Football. I’m a lineman since I played Pop Warner. The first step after the whistle is blown is I hit helmets so I can block a guy. You do that and take that over 20 years going to the NFL, it’s a lot of sub-concussive burden. Ballerina falls once, hits her head. So, the reason that numbers of concussions occur are it’s people in the trenches who are more likely to get subconcussions that get concussions, and this correlates with in one season in high school kids. Decrease neuropsychological exams, pre and post, change in white matter lesions on MRI, changes in blood-brain barrier over one season. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, that just goes quick. Yeah. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Now, you take that, and you say, “Okay, well, if the subconcussion’s loading the gun, what in those sub-populations of high risk get CTE?” CTE prevents with a mostly emotional mood presentation of behavior, impulsivity, aggressiveness of volatility where Alzheimer’s is more of a cold brain where you don’t remember where your keys is and types of memory goes, and from a physiologic standpoint, Alzheimer is an outside and degeneration. CTE is a subcortical or lower brain limbic system and a midbrain and why is that? Well, when you get hit, the center of gravity of the brain is in the brain stem, and as it attaches to the mesencephalon and the limbic system. So, the shear force is greater right where the projections of the vestibular system is, the limbic system, and so on. These type of pet scans they do at UCLA, you see these very hot metabolic regions in those areas, low in the brain where you don’t see those in Alzheimer’s, and you see it very cold out here. So, what’s the whole point of this? The whole point is, well, you piece this together. You’re like, “Okay, the mechanical force shears around the stem of the palm tree, and so that’s why that hurts. 

Oh, that happens to be where mood is. Oh, that’s how they present.” Well, there’s your loose connection, and then you can connect all of the exosomal changes, all of the biomarker changes, the tau protein changes and all that in between, but at the end of the day, this syndrome is really hard to nail down because there are studies that show that people have CTE who have never had a brain injury. There is a study of eight people. It was a case series, and they were doing random pathology samples of brains and not necessarily neurodegenerative disorders, and it was done in London, I think, and they found eight people that had CTE but never got a head injury.

So, then the question is you have this subset that head injury matters. You have evidence that you don’t have to have it, and it’s polarized in the public because when they publish that study at BU, important study. What was the cohort? People whose brains were donated to BU for pathological diagnosis CTE. Do you think that’s a biased sample? Of course, it’s a biased sample. It’s parents who want to help their kids and help the cause. God bless them, but they give them brains, and 99% of players had changes of it. No crap. That’s why you donated it, right? So, that’s what everyone says, like football causes… uh-uh (negative). Football doesn’t cause it. Smoking doesn’t cause lung cancer, but at one point it does, and at one point, head injury… think does. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It can’t contribute, and the guy from New England, the [inaudible 00:49:03] that killed someone and went to jail for murder. Did he have it? Or Junior Seau? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Both and so those behaviors fit. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, where they get aggressive and 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

I’m from Connecticut. He’s from Connecticut. I’m pretty sure that guy had Lyme’s disease with the head injury, and I’m telling you. Let me tell you, this is the final threat is the environmental subconcussion. What is it between Aaron Hernandez and some other superstar? I don’t know. Herschel Walker. Well, whatever. Well, they both hit their head a lot. They both have some probable issues here, but I can test that Aaron Hernandez had an ongoing neuroinflammatory burden, and I don’t know this. So, please don’t think… These are opinions.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I’m sure you’re right, yeah. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

He grew up in the Northeast. He’s exposed to Lyme. As you know, I had a lifelong of Lyme growing up in Connecticut that was miserable, but nonetheless, I think the missing link. It’s not Lyme disease. It’s ongoing toxicities in these guys who have these setups. So, whether Junior Seau was booze or whether it was heavy metals or whether it was a toxic social environment or whether you live next to a factory or whether… I don’t know, but my guess is that’s the cause, and what’s beautiful? That’s fixable. You can help those causes. You know that. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, yeah. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

So, my focus is to help that and it comes from my dad has CTE. My dad hit his head a lot. They missed his sleep apnea, his Lyme disease, his molds disease. He had parasites, and this is a good dude. I mean, I love my dad. So, that’s why I do this. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Wow. Wow. Yeah, I look back with my dad. He had chronic fatigue syndrome before chronic fatigue syndrome, and then he got demented very quickly, and it was just… All I could make out, they tied him to the chair in the hospital, was, “Please let me die.” Yeah, I’m sure, because our whole family’s infected. So, I know we had it lifelong. So, they had. So, obviously, he had it. My mom just sweated crazy all the time. It’s like we were the sweaters, and I would have like half my body would sweat. Then we’ll be freezing. It’s crazy, but let’s see. So, you’ve gone through everything. So, your approach is love it and how really this concussive syndrome, everyone thinks it’s just simple. Your head gets hit, boom. Hard enough, you get concussed. Then you get this post-traumatic brain syndrome, you know? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yep and it’s asking a lot of people, Kent, like people don’t know where their liver is. They don’t know how Tylenol works, let alone the brain, which took me seven years of residency, four years of studying neuroscience, four years of studying physics, and a lot of hit and misses to even get a global, I think, understanding of how some of it works. So, now, we’re asking people to make that advancement, and no one can do that, but I do think there has to be people that understand the whole system. They don’t subspecialize. Hell, I can operate through a tiny tube. I can put in a ton of screws. I can take out a brain tumor. That’s great, and God bless University of Miami for giving me that power, but there were people I couldn’t fix because I couldn’t understand what’s wrong with them, and I was helpless. 

There were people I’d fix perfectly with perfect scans, and they’d still hurt, and guess what? There was one person. She was a nurse in her 40s, got sicker and sicker, sicker, and she had metallosis from the hardware in her back, and she had mold in her bathroom, and this was a back patient. So, I said, “Move out of your house. Let me take out the hardware,” and they were systemic symptoms, not pain. You know the whole body pain, brain fog. Then I’m like, “Holy crap. I’m so monocular. I’m just putting in screws. I’m missing the picture,” like I’m missing with my dad. Everyone missed it in me for 30 years. It’d take every week. I had the worst anxiety. I had the worst ADD. I had muscle cramps my whole life. 

My testosterone level was below 200 when I was 14. I was a disaster. So, what did I do? I just said, “I don’t know why this is happening. I’ll just work harder. I won’t sleep. I’ll study really hard. I’ll lift weights every day. I’ll play every sport, and I’ll hope that some girl likes me someday.” You got to get through it. Unfortunately, I got some good fabric, but at the end of the day, man, my whole life, I’ve worn a weight vest, and my weight vest after I was treated by Dr. Kinlener, Dr. Carnahan, Dr. [Sori 00:54:23], Dr. Melamed. I mean, this veil lifted, and it was like, “Oh, this is what people are… Oh, okay.” 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You’re like, “Damn. That’s a lot easier.” 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

I’ve got a lot of dates. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It’s true. I think most people in so-called whatever we are, integrative medicine function, like they’ve been sick themselves and realized they’re very evidence-based, but realized, “Hey, something’s not working in this whole system,” and they look elsewhere, and that’s how I got… It’s like I would say 80% or so.

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

I’m still a neurosurgeon, but you have someone come in, and you know what it says. 40 year old with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, low back pain. They fill out the pain score, and you look at their body and everything’s a 10, and there’s some little disc that some doctor wants me to take out because they don’t know what to do with her, and she’s on OXYCONTIN and Suboxone and all that crap, right? You know this patient. The first thing you do is get nauseous going in there because you know you’re not going to make them better. You know you’re just a surgeon, but you know this person needs help, and they probably have SIBO, gut dysbiosis. They have some autoimmune disease. 

They have a high viral load. They have all of these things. I in my 15 minutes for the Medicare, I can’t do it. I’ll say yes, no. Well, it’s not about I’m doing my job. The problem is who’s really going to look at that person? Who’s the one that takes the time and says, “Oh, look, we need to really look into this stuff.” Well, then you run to an economic issue, but the point is there’s no one just saying, “You’re okay. You have a chronic disease. Here’s at least the places to look at,” to make decisions. There’s no one to do that. There’s no quarterback with health. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

That’s a problem, and the patients that are doctors, they’ll say, “Yeah, you talk to five different doctors. You have six different opinions, and they’re confused. They’re so stressed because this doctor says this doctor, doctor says this,” and then they go doctor hopping and shopping, and they have a bad experience, and by the time they reached us, they’ve seen 15 people, and in the study that we did 15 years ago, they saw on average 7.2 physician without any improvement. Now, I think it’s like 15-20, you know? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, yeah. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

They’re leery and they’re knowledgeable, and which is good, but I think before the internet and stuff, I remember you’re having to go to the library and go find the damn article, stick it on the Xerox and someone took that one article, whatever. Now, it’s just an overload of information. So, you got to sort out what’s good, what’s bad. You got to tell people, “Go on the internet. It’s great and then ask me. We’ll sort it out,” like a lot of doctors don’t read the internet. I’m the doctor here. Run from that doctor. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

I’m convinced now that you need a chosen like-minded or doctors or intellects of the same goal into some group, and that group on its own volition enters a chat room and has problems, and it’s almost like we’re all on call for each other. Okay, this person. Oh, it’s a brain problem. There was one about pseudotumor, and I know all about it, and I know the functional medicine piece, like let me help this person out, and even if they only execute one or two things, if that thing helped, we truly made a difference, and you’re heuristically getting to the answer. When you say, “Peptide for this,” da, da, da, got you. I’m trying it because I trust you. It’s the same thing with anyone on that call, and they’re very honest, and I think that you need clusters of these, and the velocity of information, that’s good information and effective. N equals one. I think that’s the way to set up medicine. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, I think it’s very profound, and it seems like everyone’s getting sicker and sicker. I could talk about this whole toxic burden and toxic brain. So, I think we’re in trouble with a lot of stuff, so I think you’re going to be very busy. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, well, when the ship sinks, I’m going to be trying to wade water for as long as I can. So, yeah. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

That’s great. Well, let’s see. Anything else? I think we covered so many great areas, and I think it’s just such great information for everyone. How do they find you again? 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Go on my website. It’s www.myresiliencecode.com. There’ll be numbers and things to fill out. There’s a nice video and website. It’s a private membership that has prices. We take insurances for particular things, but we provide the full cycle of care, and that would include exercises, brain, and we give access to doctors. So, I got people come in. They got a shoulder problem, I’ll get them to the best ortho. So, you have that. You have self-referrals. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Now, if they fly in, can you do part of the telemedicine?

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, so we have everything set up virtual. In fact, we had people on the East Coast. We send our vaccinated phlebotomist to them. We do virtual intakes. We can even do virtual kinetic testing. People can be with their cell phone, put in their pocket, do types of squats and movements, and you can actually get what’s called a behavior signature of someone’s state. We work with Harvard, this [FEEBX 01:00:14]. It’s a new company that looks at behavioral signatures that get tracked through their cell phones, but long story short, and we can deploy the plan remotely. We’ll call an IV place around where you live. We’ll send you the compound and pharmacy stuff, which we’re sending a lot of your stuff. Your products are amazing. The KPV has as worked well on one of our patients. Thank you for that help. Got my dad on cerebral prep while throwing a couple Hail Marys his way. I got him on double dose there, but my point was, yeah, we deploy it, and we become your virtual omnipotent health wife or health husband. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Nice. I love it. I love it. I’m going to call the number and [crosstalk 01:01:02]. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Good. Check it out, man. I think you’re going to love the people. It’s all about us communicating with each other, and it’s about people learning and learning about themselves and hopefully make a difference one day and we win and 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I don’t think my brain’s still right. I mean, I still… tariff and insomnia and still memory’s so much better. I mean, I could not take a… I’d fail an Alzheimer’s test, but 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You need all of your highways tested. So, now, you can have a picture and be like, “Now, you understand the why for the sleep.” Maybe it’s a vestibular problem. Maybe that needs vestibular rehab, which you do at home, right? Maybe you need neurofeedback because there’s a couple parts of your brain that despite all you did good for that software problem, you left a hardware problem. Well, you need electromagnetic fields or neurofeedback to start stimulating and potentiating that. In a way, that’s data-driven so that you can do a brain map, neurofeedback, check on sleep, brain map. Look, it’s all bright now, buddy, and you’re sleeping well. It’s the same thing for anything. It’s trial and error with good clinical oversight and academic intentions. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, no. I love it, yeah, and just the depth of testing you’re able to do. I love it. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, buddy. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

All right, man. Hey, thank you so much. Just love the information and you’re outside the box and just your whole global thinking. I love it. So, thank you and always good talking to you. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

You too. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, I’d appreciate it, and you’ll probably see my paperwork come by. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, I appreciate all your knowledge. You helped my practice out a lot and for yourself, and those who want the peptide view on concussion, I’ll leave you saying, “I put everyone on BCP157. I put them all on TB frag, phosphatidylcholine, high-dose N-acetylcysteine, ALA, and then the rest is data-driven. We’re starting to use the cerebro prep. That’s a new thing that, again, following your lead, and we’ll see how those things go, but that’s 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

been great on it. Yeah. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

We’ll have the data to see what it does and how it works because we’ll have testing pre and post everything. So, love still collaborating with you, buddy, and thanks for having me. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Sounds great, and thank you for doing this over again.

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC

Yeah, man. No problem for the right 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

All right. Get some sleep. 

Chad Prusmack, M.D., FAANS, IFMPC 

Thanks, man. You too. 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Bye-bye.