Could Mold Be A Trigger For Fibromyalgia?

Bridgit Danner

Is wrong with these.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Nursing homes. I don’t ever see it. Well, now that I started testing for two or three years ago, it seems like everybody has mold. What is what’s going on? What is the deal with these mold toxins?

Bridgit Danner

Well, when you say everybody, is it all people coming to you with chronic illness?

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, you know, when I say everybody, I mean, all my patients that I’m working with who are primarily fibromyalgia patients, people with a chronic history, you know, chronic. Yeah.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah. I bring up that part because I think it is a lot of the people who are dealing with chronic illness is a factor in their story is usually by the time you find out, you’ve got, you know, Lyme and mold and heavy metal like is they’re all kind of finding it all out at once sometimes. But mold really affects the immune system and neurotransmitters like we were talking about earlier, adrenal glands, the brain, the gut. So it just really sets you up to let other infections kind of thrive in you and other like imbalances continue to live for a long time. One of the reasons is you could still be in that same environment for a long time, or you could have gotten out, but never know. You had mold and didn’t really properly detox. Now it’s colonized in your body, so you’re still sick. So yeah, I think it is a background player quite a bit. 

You know, if we I always wonder, like if we took, you know, so many just random people off the street, how many would have mold and then could we compare their symptoms? Right. Because I think we all have some morphine, right. That right. And some people are doing better than others. So just a lot of take goes into play with, you know, genetics and other things in your health history. But yeah, I mean, I remember when I found out about my mold, I was like embarrassed that I had this, like, weird thing like that. No one would understand. And now if I’m like in an Uber and they’re like, why did you move to Arizona?  Like, because I have say I, you know, I lived in his moldy home and so we moved to Arizona and they’re often like, Oh yeah, I’ve heard of that. I’ve heard about that. So things are changing, you know, even I would say more mainstream. There’s more awareness that there is this thing that exists.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

You know, there’s some awareness. But in conventional medicine, if you go to your doctor and you complain of the symptoms, typical symptoms of fibromyalgia, brain fog or sleep diffuse achy pain, sometimes disabling pain, fatigue, irritable bowel. I mean, the list can be rather lengthy, you know, and that’s why sometimes patients get accused of being hypochondriacs. But, you know, if you were to share the symptoms, the last thing and even functional medicine doctors, the last thing they’re going to think about is, oh, well, maybe we need to ask them about more. I mean, that never even comes up in the conversation. And I shared this with Evan Brand and Richie Shoemaker’s book, you know, who kind of put mold toxins on the map, wrote the book all about mold, toxicity of mold, mold warrior, mold survivor. I never get to tolerate any more area. And when you read his book, he, you know, blatantly says he doesn’t believe in fibromyalgia is really believes that it’s just a made up diagnosis and that everybody that’s been diagnosed with fibromyalgia and probably Lyme has bio toxins coming from mold that have set this thing off. And if you look at the symptoms of mold, toxins, you know what they can generate? It’s the very same symptoms we see in fibromyalgia. So there’s really not a huge disconnect. I mean, there really is a connection between mold toxicity, generating a lot of the symptoms that we would see in fibromyalgia. Right.

Bridgit Danner

You know, it’s funny, when you listed off a few earlier, you know, those were the symptoms that I had. Yeah, I live in the Molly house and got pregnant around the same time. I had just horrible back pain during pregnancy, after pregnancy, get going. And I had IBS. I had to be like super strict with my diet, you know, didn’t anxious, didn’t sleep well, very anxious. So yeah, I think there can be an overlap. And sometimes like people think that mold symptoms are like a certain way. Like it’s just like sinus.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Or wheezing, allergy.

Bridgit Danner

Asthma. Yeah. And I would say the two most common for mold are brain fog and fatigue. But even those two for me weren’t the first two to show up. That wasn’t until I was down in the dumps that, you know, those things became more persistent and pronounced.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Yeah. I think the other thing is that people think of mold like the mildew in your shower. I think, oh, there’s a lot of you know, I see it on the shower curtain or whatever that is. And they think, Oh, well, that can’t be giving me, you know, a problem. I don’t even know. That’s not that’s not really not what we’re talking about. Right. We’re not talking about mildew, really. I mean, we’re.

Bridgit Danner

Talking to is mold and mildew can be toxic mold. However, the amount just, you know, on a shower curtain, we talk about Jasmine. You know, one tiny thing isn’t going to be enough, but lots of tiny things could be. But more likely, there’s a leak inside the wall. You know, something in the attic across base. I had a guy in my mold, someone said 100% of crawl space, a moldy hundred percent.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

He’s you know, that didn’t surprise me. It was you here was a 50% of the buildings that had some type of water damage. Yeah. And then what’s the stat? That 25% of the population has a genetic predisposition to developing an issue with chronic inflammatory respiratory syndrome Sears, which is more toxins. And so you’ve got 25% of the population is walking around. The weak link is is mold. And if they get exposed, they’re going to be the canary in the mine. I mean, they’re going to be the ones in a show. All those the symptoms.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah. Yeah. I can manifest differently for different members of the family can be kind of hidden some people think, well, what was the crawl space have to do with me? Yeah, air travel. I think that I’ve learned a lot about building biology in this process. I still don’t know as much as the experts, but, you know, something in your wall is not really trapped there. And there’s like gases and cracks and like, nothing is trapped, like, anywhere in the home. So, yeah, like in our house, you know, most of our really, I could say the only mold that you could say was visible is like a teeny tiny, like, water stain on our trim in the basement. Other than that, like, I really couldn’t tell you, oh, I think my house is money. And yet once we got into testing it, ripping things up, there was a bunch of mold. I was living in a rainy climate, too. You know, it does make it kind of harder when you’re anti probably your climate is pretty humid. Rodger and.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Oh, yeah.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah. So are humidity, more rain, you know, there’s more risk. But, you know, even here in Arizona, when houses are built correctly or, you know, there are some old homes, I do hear some homes here with mold.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Well, it’s interesting because, you know, I have patients that are referred to me for fibromyalgia. And then when I’m doing the interview and I’m looking through their paperwork in their labs and, you know, and then I start asking them about mold. And now I ask everybody about bow to my questionnaire. And I just you know, they it’s never occurred to them that that mold could be a problem that never smelled. They’ve never seen it. Sometimes they didn’t even know they had water damage because I just moved into an old house and didn’t know anything about it. But I’ve had, you know, several new patients that in the middle of the in the middle of the interview, it became apparent that they didn’t have the classic fibromyalgia where you have to struggle for sleep, struggle to stay asleep, low serotonin, all the things that we talk about here on the summit, it was obvious that their main problem was mold, toxicity and that was creating the symptoms that other doctors had. You know, finally, after going to all these different doctors finally said, oh, you have fibromyalgia and you know, it it was something that in one way to them, it was a relief and another was like, oh, my God, now I have to do, you know, because then you do the testing and it comes back and they’re sky high and some of these mold toxins, these mold strains. And you have to explain to them, which is really hard, that, hey, you need to move out of your house until we get this cleaned up. If we can get it cleaned up, that’s hard. I mean, that’s really hard to share that with somebody. And I can’t even imagine being on the other end thinking that you’re going to have to move out of your house or your apartment or your place of business, because every time you step into that facility, it’s making you sick.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah. Yeah, it’s huge because our places mean a lot to us and we have different kinds of attachments, you know, good or bad. So it’s tough. It’s like you’re already not feeling well. You mean I can’t even work? And now you either have to move or spend tens of thousand dollars on your place. And, you know, unfortunately, there’s really no shortcut. I mean, I do say that they’re going to be like synchronicities and like opportunities when you are open to them, you know, about a temporary housing you could get or help you could get, but it’s, you know, if if your space is quite moldy and your body and you’re quite sick, you have a dangerous combination. And it’s like, you know, we’ve had so many hurricanes and stuff lately. It’s like, you know, if your house is just taken away, we all understand that this is going to being an act of nature. 

But if your house is there and we’re saying like take your house away or move away, when it becomes like a decision, it can be quite a bit harder unless you’re Edinburgh and he feels like that guy. He was just like, No, you know, I really see the spectrum, you know, he’s so dedicated to health. You know, he had built a house himself, you know, amazing house that got compromised. And he just up and left. It just didn’t bring anything. It was like a bad act, you know. So I did see like all I think it has to go with like some people are already pretty minimal. It’s pretty whatever. But I’ve you know I’ve seen people still in their condo say fighting with away five years later they’re telling me they’re getting sicker and sicker. I’m like, get out of there. So I think our brain isn’t working. Well, yeah. You can sometimes make great decisions.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Do you think that everyone needs to move out if they find mold and they get I guess they get tested and they realize that there is validity that those mold strains are probably causing their health issues. Do you think they have to move out to get rid of it? Get rid of it?

Bridgit Danner

You know, I think it is a combo of some real illness and a real clear problem in the home. Yes. Minimum. While you were immediate because I stayed in the home well during remediation, some of it. And that was a mistake. I will say, Rodger, I’m more of a fan of moving on then than redoing the home because it’s so hard to get it exactly right. It’s talking sometimes replacing the docks, not even just cleaning them, placing the dock. I mean, we’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars on our house and we were still too traumatized to even try.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Yeah, so.

Bridgit Danner

So I think it’s better generally, you know, it’s like again kind of comes down to attachment. It’s like it’s still heavy. Yeah, it’s hard. It’s hard and it’s.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

I feel warm. I feel for him. But I’ve got this one patient that I’m thinking of that she had mold in her own house and it had moved in in a few years. But she obviously Hamo, I mean, you know, so I got her to do the de Beek’s test, the visual contrast, sensitivity tests that she may have recommends. And that came back, you know, just she was really you could tell you had definitely a lot of bio toxins on that. So what had Tester and then she tested positive and you know I think I see this a lot and you probably do too is that people have been exposed to mold in the past. They may have even gotten out of that facility, but that mold is still in them. So still giving them issues. And then if they get around some mold, seasonal changes, you know, the foods that you eat, some of those are moldy, you know, and the humidity here in the south, I mean, things when it rains that would set them off. And that’s what was happening with her. She got her. It took six months to get a clean test on her. So showed that all the mold was out of her. Her we she tested her new house. It was clean, but she went off to up to. Where was she? Somewhere in northeast. I don’t know. Stay with some friends for a month in an old house.

Bridgit Danner

A month? Yeah, that’s right.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Yeah. Yeah, it was really rainy and, you know, it came back and it just set her off. She. She had all this these and, you know, she had all these symptoms once again. So it’s something that is every, you know, so definitely a challenge to get rid of that and get it out of your life.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah, it’s a process. And, you know, in a way I’m thankful for having gone through it because I was a practitioner with a lot of resources at my fingertips. It still took me a long time, so I never tell people any kind of quick recovery. I mean, I’ve seen some quicker recover recoveries. Like, I mean, it’s almost best case scenario. If you moving to a place and you find mold fast and you get it pretty fast, that’s the best case scenario. Most of us have been in the place a long time and so they really develop issues. And yeah, there’s a recovery period like you’re talking about with your client. It’s not like you get out and you’re done. Now your body is like dumping, detoxing. Yeah, the systems are off. Yeah, but it does get better. Like, I think some of my clients will. I know. Like they’ll call a head to a hotel and ask questions like, I don’t do that stuff. Like I’m, I’m fine, really. Like if I got stuck in a moldy house for a month, no, I wouldn’t be fine. But I have other sensitivities. And so we’re going through just it doesn’t even have to be mold anymore, really. Can just be anything airborne or food borne, like you mentioned, that just sets off that that alarm system. Oh, we’re dealing with this again. So I have trouble when there’s no smoke in the air or allergens. So now I’m I’m working through some deeper level stuff to try to, like, lose that sensitivity.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Well, you know, so some people are much more sensitive to others. So you can have a family and you have maybe the husband has a genetic glitch. You know, his was an HLA HLA D.R. things we test for now that shows that genetically he’s predisposed to mold toxins everybody else is fine he has all the symptoms no one else does. Why could that not be fibromyalgia? I mean, you know, I mean, you’ve got this, you know, fibromyalgia, I think is you know, it’s just a name given to describe a group of symptoms. There’s definitely an underlying cause or causes, plural, that are creating these symptoms. And, you know, from functional medicine, the way that we practice, we’re trying to find what is the root cause or causes and then start to fix that. Resident is treating the symptoms. But what I’m really wondering more and more each each day that I work with patients with fibromyalgia and pneumo is is this a common straw that breaks the camel’s back? Is this the thing that finally gets them? You know, because it’s like it’s opportunistic. They get under a lot of stress. Maybe they have a surgery that goes you know, they have a lot trouble with the surgery or they get under stress at home, whatever. But then eventually that mold that wasn’t giving them any trouble, it just that’s it. They just can’t handle it. And that sets them off.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah, I think in my opinion, it’s a little opposite. It’s like the mold is slowly making them. Yeah. We don’t want. Yeah. And then you know you add something to it that so I thought like maybe for me, you know, I literally got practice in it. Mostly how my body goes through the hardest, you know, changes that went through, you know, as we see that with autoimmunity too. So, you know, it’s it’s interesting, I had this conversation recently like is it always mold type of thing? But I’ve been talking to some friends lately and their breast implants removed. So that’s a big topic now too. You know, there are other stressors out there besides mold. And I was neglectful or ignorant in my practice to not ask about that for many years.  So there are other factors, you know, as much as I do very much believe, like there’s a lot of mold out there. There are other things like I’m no heavy metal expert, but I know that that’s in some people’s cases playing a big role. So yeah, it becomes just like this whole conglomeration of things. But the thing I think is a little different about mold is this environmental and you cannot stay in that home and buy a bunch of supplements and do all these things and get better is going to limit you in that in that way. Like I really, you know, and I have clients come to me like that, like I can’t move for X, Y, Z reasons that we talk about it when I hit it is, you know, if I’ve already brought all these products from cell core or this or that is like I’m like, you can take them out. You’re just wasting your money because you’re going to have to take them again. When you finally move now. So I’m pretty harsh about that because I know that they’re just avoiding that harder decision right now.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Well, let me ask you, as far as testing, so a lot of people that they’re clueless, they don’t smell anything, can’t see anything. But I really I’m under the opinion that anybody that has when I kind of medical misfit diagnosis or medical misfit condition like fibromyalgia, that’s hard to explain and even harder to treat. Certainly hard to get over, you know, as people have been to numerous doctors, you know, it’s not unusual. I’ve been to 12 doctors over a 5 to 6 year period and they finally get the diagnosis. But we could say the same thing about chronic fatigue syndrome and Lyme and some autoimmune diseases that don’t even show up in blood work either. I’m under the belief that if you’re one of those people, you should at the very least test do the X test Dexcom See what that shows and probably be tested. You know, either test your home or test yourself or more. How, how, how do you recommend people test their home for mold there, there, there and see how it can be their business, too, right? Yeah.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah. I got home ten and stay home just because it’s the more likely. But yeah, I just met someone recently who’s a pharmacist. Got sticky batteries at work at a hospital. Hospitals are a big mess, schools, barracks, all sorts of things.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

I remember being a nurse. I got it after, you know, the the VA, you know, now that’s worse.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah. They don’t maintain those buildings properly either. So it can be tricky, you know, because there are more testing options now and it’s like hard to say the best one. And, you know, sometimes things can get missed. So I, you know, I do put in my book like all the kinds of testing I knew about at the time there. I’ll just tell you about like a couple of different dust tests. So one is the army and now there are some new variations of the army. The Army wasn’t really designed for resident residential mold home situation, so reading it takes some special interpretation beyond what you’re really going to get with your own eyeball. You know, you really need somebody who’s seen a lot of them understands a home and you need to test, right? Like you need to collect dust from different like levels, you know, like floor metal, high, like all over different areas. And then there’s a mycotoxins dust test that I kind of like as a practitioner because instead of just telling you kind of what species of mold are around and that that panel in the army is not all about toxic mold, it’s just kind of mold load versus like the outdoors. 

The micro toxin dust test is for actual toxins given off by toxic mold. So I like that part of it. However, their results are underwhelming as well. Like, kind of like you’ve got something or you don’t and it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t give you I’d say, frankly, neither of them give you a sense of what to do next. So you need someone or some knowledge what to do next. Right? Because this is just like functional medicine. It’s like, well, where did that come from? Yeah, that’s what you got to go fix. So it’s just a first step, sort of like with the body of finding out some information. If you’re a home owner, you know, you probably want to have a good inspector to come out like we had a great inspector. Luckily they do a moisture meter, you know, on the walls. They check your gutters, they check you. You know, we had all these problems I didn’t know about. Some people are renting. You don’t want to do all that. 

There’s also some plate tests that are really affordable. What is there called make I have it right here. You know, lyrics that’s really affordable and they can give you a guide to about like where to put the ones like you want one you know, by in your laundry room on your basement and then you can if only if mold grows, you can send it back in with a label and they will give you like a half an hour to interpret that. So there are, for better or worse, there’s a lot of options. Some of them can miss things occasionally. Again, I wish this were all simpler and easier to say.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

It’s not. I mean, there’s different you know, there’s different thoughts on this. And what do you say? I put you on the spot? What do you think of micro metrics? So the company of you familiar with micro metrics that.

Bridgit Danner

Resistance is a type of army or someone they describe the army, right. Yeah.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

I think they’re they have a test shoot. It’s a PCR, PCR based test.

Bridgit Danner

Okay.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

They talk about how, you know, I kind of feel like they’re everybody. The test for them is positive, you know, kind of what they’re saying. So it’s really hard, you know, it’s really hard to find a test that I think that is accurate, you know, to you know, I really don’t know if it’s that accurate.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I don’t want to frustrate people. I will say, you know, just like with a body like you, Rodger will do if you work with him, like you do a good history right? Think about the history of your home. And so I think he will just forget that. Oh, yeah, that bathtub flooded, you know, that time. And we just couldn’t and towels that we’re like people think that’s it right but if there got it, there was moisture under the floorboard and it didn’t dry in 48 hours. That’s the key amount of time it can grow mold that even as the now becomes dry, the mold will actually kind of sloughed off to try to find a new place to live. So it’s not just like dead, you know, and dried up as soon as the puddles gone right. 

There’s all sorts of scenarios, you know, and now with all this crazy weather we’re having, like, did you have a, you know, a great amount of rain and, you know, like for the house we lived in, we didn’t have it graded away from the house correctly. You know, our gutters were a little backed up and not draining correctly. So there is again, I’m not the best person to buy. I’m starting to get a better sense of like what to look for. Any kind of staining you see anywhere is not good. You shouldn’t have like a white stain in your garage or a black line. I’m here for it. There shouldn’t be any spot that gets wet at any time. It rains like every time. So there are ways to just start with like inspecting. And again, it’s a lot to learn and, you know, if you look, I want it to be cheaper. Well, you really have to get to know a home and how to inspect it. Are, you know, are you actually getting it in your crawlspace? Probably not. So it’s nobody else. So there are ways, you know, it’s just tough because it just really is a lot to learn when you’re not feeling good. So if you can get help that you can afford, you know, it can take some of the burden off of you.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Well, I think I do think you do a really wonderful job in your book, kind of laying out the pros and cons of the different testing. The push comes to shove. We’re in agreement. I think ideally if you can find somebody locally, they can actually come out to the house and has a good reputation that you trust. I think that’s the way to go and let them know that were. And I think that if you’ve got a medical mystery illness, if you got an illness like fibromyalgia and and you suspect intuitively or you do see signs of mold or you take the X test com and you see that you fail, that I think it’s worth a lot of getting yourself tested and I like these guys just couple them out now real time and then the Great Plains, the micro toxic test which I like, I like that quite a bit. And, you know, it’s not you know, it’s not inexperienced, not it’s not real expensive, not, you know, $300 or something. I think that test is. But if you’ve got an illness like fibro, you’re really trying to figure out what is going on, what is what’s one of the triggers. You know, that can be a big trigger. It’s creating the symptoms that we just pass off as, oh, that’s just fibromyalgia. 

Bridgit Danner

Because. yeah, ironically, like testing your body from all of this point is like easier than your home and cheaper it is.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

It’s like, yeah, I’ve gotten to the point I just don’t in terms of test I this test it they take the VIX test score and we see that that looks bad. And in the history that I take with them, if there’s any history of water damage, I just have them, you know, I just test them.

Bridgit Danner

Forget them. Yeah.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

We’ll deal with that afterwards.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah, exactly. Because if you see it in black and white in your body results and you may see something quite shocking that may motivate you or your spouse to, you know, take the next step and not.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

I mean, that’s a biggie. You know, with the fibro. So the spouse oftentimes doesn’t understand what their spouse is going through. Usually it’s a female. 95% of the people have fibro or female in they you know, do the same thing with. I hear a patient tells him, oh, Dr. Murphree says, I’ve got mold. We got to get it out of our house. When you hire somebody there, you know, typically, I should say to me, but unfortunately, sometimes they’re reluctant to do that because there’s a cost associated with it. And I understand it. I mean, it is I mean, it’s scary. And I guess it’s important to point out that everyone that’s listening to this, not all of you have mold, but if you’re, you know, if you’re willing to do the falling through the cracks, no one can figure out what’s going on with you tried all these different things don’t neglect getting tested for mold you know that can be a missing piece of the puzzle could be one piece but it could be a big piece  of putting you together again.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah, I would say it took me seven, eight years, seven at least to of symptoms to finally consider mold. So yeah, it’s not like people are just pulling this out of nowhere. Right? It’s usually like you’ve looked, you know, all sorts of things. You clean up your diet, you change your cleaning products, you done all this stuff and you’re still not feeling well. Right. And that’s such a frustrating feeling. So, yes, it’s a lot to take on. But I can tell you, you know, where I go to where I am now. I was on one of these interviews, Rodger, and somebody asked me, where do you think you’d be like if you didn’t find out about it? And I was like, I think I’d be dead. I think I just would have killed myself. Like, I just was having suicidal thoughts like, yeah, is this stuff is not make believe it’s it becomes as people listening know like if you’re having real chronic illness with you know, I was having lots of fevers and this and that and it’s like it’s no way to live. Yeah. So, you know, what’s another three or $400 to test your body for mold? Because I’ve been impressed with how well the body can recover. It’s not overnight. But yeah, I mean, there was things I thought, oh, I just can’t recover this or that. And, you know, I’m almost all the way there and I’ve learned so much about health and detoxing and self care. I’m going to be like the healthiest old person there is, right? Because I’ve built all these habits.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Yeah, well, so people I think afterwards, people kind of dismiss mold and I know I was guilty of that. But when you look at what can happen to your body when you get infected, my mom, cancer cancer’s a big one, shutting down your kidneys. So, you know, chronic CKD, chronic kidney disease. I had a patient here recently how I treated years ago for fibromyalgia and lupus and she was doing fantastic. She was a tough case, but she did great. Been in remission for a decade. I’m almost a decade here and then. But she moved in. She moved into an own house and started having some symptoms, started showing up. Then she got colon and then she ended up going to the doctor and found out in summer the blood tests, she had problems with her kidneys, that the labs were showing some kidney markers that referred to urologist and said, you know, your kidneys shutting down. 

And she said, well, you know, what can I do now? What’s the cause? We don’t know. What can I do? Well, and anything you can do, you know, you just have to go on dialysis eventually. Well, he knew better than to listen to that. I mean, she so she reached out to me and I, you know, I didn’t really know what was going on, but it turns out she’s saturated with mold. And I’m sure that, you know, the Cogan and cytokine storm Contribue added to that but yeah so she treated her and six four months later she goes back to the urologist. He says, I don’t know what you’re doing, but everything’s clear. Wow, everything’s normal now. I don’t take credit for that. I mean, I was just lucky enough, I think, to have met people like yourself and some of the other people that really tune me into that about mode. And I caught that. But here is somebody that was really facing dialysis. ES In the next two years. It was kidney failure and it was all due to these mole toxins. So they can be very dangerous.

Bridgit Danner

Very dangerous. Yeah, very much so. Yeah. And there’s certain mycotoxins or to this especially neurotoxic is that there were a U.S. kidney. So yeah. When you dig into like the literature has a lot right a lot of that came from animal husbandry and that because animals are generally eating grain and feed and it was moldy and so and so it’s a big business to keep your animals healthy. So there’s actually been quite a bit of study that started from all that world, which is pretty interesting. So yeah, if people are wondering if there’s, you know, information about mold, there’s actually quite a bit and it is a little scary, which I just think is just use it as a motivator to, you know, take action because yeah, if you stay in that environment, you know, heart disease, cancer, you know, I mean, my eyelid was twitching, you know, losing things. Like I just kind of got on like that. So you mentioned somebody’s going to stay in a house that was moldy. You know, another option just to kind of give people ideas, like sometimes going away is good. Like you can’t go stay with someone at the beach or whatever. And it’s okay to, like, ask for help. It’s not easy to ask for help, but, you know, some, you know, sometimes people will help you with a temporary living change and sometimes you will feel better right away. It can be sometimes hard to tell depending on the circumstances, but that’s one thing some people do is just take an experiment away from the home with a certain amount of time with a relative or what have you. And they do notice that their symptoms start to go down.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Well, I think that’s a great interview question. As a physician, just to ask them, do you feel better when you leave the house or you feel better when you’re away from work? Now, you know, there could be stress associated with the household or stress for the business. But when you ask somebody, you know, do you feel better when you go on vacation and you kind of dig into that and you realize that they when they get out of that moldy environment, their symptoms improve. You know, there’s there is definitely a a cause and effect that you can help them see. And sometimes that’s the only clue, you know, because you don’t smell anything. You don’t see anything. But it’s the fact that every time you step foot in your house, you’re becoming sick again.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah. Like, for me, I wouldn’t say, like, unfortunately, I didn’t have like a summer home in the Hamptons, but I was out more and I was traveling more and the weather was different, right? So in the summer, I would generally feel better and the winters, I’d be a lot worse. And I just thought, oh, you know, I don’t have great immunity. It’s like cold and flu. I would seriously every two weeks have have a cold or flu. Rodger. I had a sore throat basically all the time. You know, that’s an immune system that’s not working correctly. So sometimes you do have to like think about it a little bit. But yeah, I was always in a very wet climate indoors, more in my body on board and now looking back, it’s like, Oh yeah, of course I got sick every winter.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, Bridget, I want to make sure to mention your website because I want people to go. You’ve got a lot of resources at your website, and I really want to you know, there’s really not that many books out there on. I mean, there’s a few riches to book. No is a hard read. It’s a long, torturous read. And you know, to get that some of that I like your book is it’s very practical. It’s easy to read. It’s practical. It’s a lot of you know here do this the do it yourself DIY doorstep and that which I really like. So I would encourage them. What’s the website?

Bridgit Danner

I have it. Well, it’s like.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

You showed your book.

Bridgit Danner

It’s my website. It’s just my name, which is Bridgit Danner. And the book is the ultimate toxic mom role. God Cover Guide. Yeah, it says kind of still say this is a bit in its infancy. I mean, there are some good more books out there, but not many. And there really wasn’t one that addressed like the whole picture because it is like a whole thing. Right? You can’t just I mean, I’m more I’m stronger at the body part, but I was like, I know if I leave the home for now, people are going to be confused. So I really put it all in there and the emotional journey because like you said, it’s it’s very difficult. You feel very alone. So I just tried to hold space for okay, now you’re at this stage and you might be freaking out about this and just kind of like just hold you through the whole process.

Rodger Murphree, DC, CNS

Yeah. Well, Bridget, thank you so much. It’s been an interesting conversation. It’s one that I really feel like needs to be shared often in the health community. It’s something that’s just as you said, it’s just now starting to get out there. And I think we need to change that. And get people make people aware of all toxic toxins and that whole issue, you know, like we did in Lyme, you know, people didn’t even talk about Lyme until a few years ago. I think we’re going to see the same thing with mold. And again, I would encourage people to check out Bridget Dana’s website. So. Bridget Intercom Mm hmm. So thanks so much for being part of the summit. Joy hanging out with you.

Bridgit Danner

Yeah, it was really great to kind of give examples. I think that was a nice style and yeah, people can always reach out to us if they have any lingering questions. Thanks, everybody.