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Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Guest experts
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Welcome back to the Reverse Autoimmune Disease Summit Series, everybody. I’m Doctor Keesha Ewers. And this is the fourth iteration of the Reverse Autoimmune Disease Summit Series that you’re joining us for. And this time, we’re talking about the fourth corner of that puzzle, the toxic burden, so the autoimmune detox. And our guests in this particular part of this summit series are talking about all the different varieties of detoxification that need to happen when we’re talking about reversing autoimmune disease. So my guest today is Doctor Ritamarie Loscalzo, who is the founder of the Institute of Nutritional Endocrinology. She’s passionately committed to transforming our current broken disease care system into a true healthcare system, where each and every practitioner is skilled at finding the root cause of their health challenges. So I just wanna talk a little bit- When we start talking about your bio, Doctor Ritamarie, it’s comprehensive, and I love it. So you do a train-the-trainer and also train-the-person, which is what I do in my practice too and I love that because you’re actually helping more and more and more people out there become providers in this layer of educational need inside our medical care system. And I am so grateful for that. So her Practitioner Certification Programs empower health and wellness professionals to unravel the mystery of their client’s complex health challenges so that they can get to the root cause of health issues by using functional assessments and natural therapeutics to balance the endocrine system, the master controller. Dr. Marie is a licensed doctor of chiropractic with certifications in acupuncture, nutrition, herbal medicine and HeartMath. She’s also a certified living food chef, instructor and coach, and has trained and certified hundreds of others in the art of using palette-pleasing whole foods as medicine. Welcome to the series.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Thank you so much for having me, I’m excited to be here.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So one of the things that our viewers are really smart and savvy around autoimmunity, and so the talk title that we did was detoxifying your pancreas in order to support your immune system, and your endocrine system, and the way that your genetics express themselves. So when we put it that way, people don’t really talk about detoxing your pancreas. It’s sort of like a provocative way of talking about this, but what we’re really talking about is blood sugar balance. So what does blood sugar balance have to do with a supported immune system?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah, so when I look at it, I know you have your pillars, I have my five-part framework. And they’re all pretty much the same, we just take it from a little different perspective. And one of those pieces in the framework is blood sugar balance and we have to be balanced. And our modern diet and lifestyle does not lead to blood sugar balance. And I believe that ignoring blood sugar balance is a big mistake that a lot of practitioners make, especially conventionally trained because it’s not made like, “Oh yeah, you don’t have diabetes, you’re fine.” And in reality, all of the negative consequences of diabetes, the metabolic imbalances that can lead to autoimmune disease, heart disease, et cetera, start to happen three decades or more before the actual diagnosis. And a lot of people are running around like these fires that are not being acknowledged, and it can lead to autoimmune disease because there’s an inflammatory component and the cells themselves don’t get enough nutrition to be able to actually heal themselves, right? And to prevent that attack by the immune system.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Well, the thing about this, it can take anywhere from 10 to 30 years to develop an autoimmune illness, right? Is that in diabetes, and we’re not even necessarily talking about diabetes here, we’re talking about all of the spectrum that gets you more before that, right? We would like to catch you way before diabetes because at that point, by the time you get a diagnosis, your hemoglobin A1C is 6.5, then you have lost 20 to 25% of the beta cells of your pancreas. They’re gone.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
They’re gone, yep.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
They’re gone. And so, you know, burned up in the forest fire, and they’re gone. And so what we’re talking about right now is so important and it doesn’t have an immediacy, which I think in our culture people need to be having a hammer knocking on them. And so what we’re asking you to do is to kind of drop in to a collaborative relationship with your body that doesn’t require it to shout. Right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah, I love that. That’s a great way to put it.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, there’s no immediacy when we’re talking about the steps that happen before insulin resistance, which is the steps that has happening before diabetes. Right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly, yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So we’re talking about over here right now.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
I call it pre-insulin resistance.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Exactly.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
And I find so many people who are not classically diagnosable as insulin resistant or diabetic, yet they’re having these blood sugar swings that are up and down and up and down. And like you said earlier about the pancreatic function, every time the blood sugar goes above 100, every time, there’s a little bit more damage to the beta cells, and a little bit more damage to the beta cells. And you add that up over decades, and there’s a lot of damage to it. And then you end up-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
You just picture like you’ve got a beta cell, and you’re doing target practice with a gun. That’s how violent it is at what you’re doing, right? When you’re hitting up over 100, you have just had some shooting practice with your beta cells.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly. And it’s not worth it. I mean occasionally, you have a treat and it does that, but people are doing this every day. Most people, like I would say 90% of people are going over that 100 multiple times a day. Not even to say when they actually get to 100 as a fasting sugar. If your fasting sugar hits 100, you’ve been in dysregulation of your glucose for decades, for a really long time for it to get that high.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Well, in this part right here that I think people in that non-immediacy, that I don’t think they realize is also a lot of people now understand the role of the microbiome and autoimmune disease. That has been really well covered and it’s fantastic. So we have talks about it. Everybody has heard about leaky gut at this point, usually. By the time they reach someone like us, they’ve got the language around that. Now, when you have had for a long time this knocking the cell membrane, and sugar remaining out in the system because it’s not being brought in, and converted into energy for your body to use, who’s eating the sugar?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Who’s eating it? Well, whatever else is floating around in your bloodstream.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
The microbiome.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
The microbiome, yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So, people, I’m trying to make that connection, so that you when you listen to Dr. Ritamarie, you’re really getting it like, “Oh, that microbiome thing that I actually do by now know is so important. Oh, if I have sugar floating around there because it’s been knocking and there’s no room and it can’t get in and there’s no doorway in because of insulin resistance, then it is an opportunistic dinner time feeding for your gut flora. And the ones that feed on sugar are the ones that you don’t want to be ruling the roost. Right? You’re going to have some of them in there for sure but you don’t want them to be the main guys in charge. And so when you don’t have that sugar going in the cell properly, which is what we’re talking about that’s who you’re feeding. I think that’s really important connection. Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
I like that connection. It’s beautiful. And then when we think about leaky gut, those are the organisms that are producing the lipopolysaccharides and the other toxins that bore holes in your intestinal lining and allow things to enter and create, initiate that whole autoimmune process.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And you fed them with your-
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Sugar, donuts.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Your soda pop. Your toast, your toast with jam on it.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Your whole grain toast, your gluten-free.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Your Ezekiel bread with jam that has no added sugar or honey. Yeah, exactly.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Right, that’s what people-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
We fed them.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah, we fed them that way. And it’s just hard because it’s what we’re told from a societal standpoint, and then from even some functional medicine standpoint, it’s like okay, let’s just convert from the refined flour to the whole grain flour. No, the whole grain flour is still feeding that. And it’s still creating that insulin up and down surge that causes this damage.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And there’s something that I wanna also really kind of like help our viewers understand is when you go to see a provider who does not say this to you and says, you know what? 80, 20 is good enough, right? That means that they’re, they’re saying to you they don’t want to make you unhappy. When you listen to us we are the same with this, which is no, there’s no room. And it’s not us telling you, it’s your body telling you and we’re trying to help you listen to it. This isn’t a thing about negotiating with your provider. Well, can I just have this? No, you’re doing the data, you’re collecting the information. It’s from your body, not from us.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And so putting your provider there as the one that you’re negotiating with, Dr. Ritamarie and I don’t do that.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
You don’t negotiate, no, we’ll tell you right out–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Because it’s not us that you didn’t negotiate with, it’s your body.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
I didn’t make the rules, right? It’s this, they make rules and nature. And you know, depending on your genetics you may have a little bit more leeway but I have people test very, very carefully. So I know how much leeway they have. I have genetics that lead me towards more of an insulin resistance profile. So my leeway is very small. Someone else who has different genetics may have a little bit more leeway, but I think that negotiating is making you more unhappy.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Then giving up the things that you don’t want to give up because you are–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Because you’re coming from a place where you feel like your provider just kinda did this power over you move, which isn’t accurate. So not true, but it’s the way you might, in your little kid self feel that things are getting taken away from you. And so then you’ll feel power under like this little kid that doesn’t get what they want. And so, it’s important to have that conversation, right? Like who in there is feeling deprived because really what this is, it’s this body that even when you put it to bed, never rests, right? It never–
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
It’s very metabolically active when you’re in bed.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, it’s always working for you. And so what we’re doing is we’re saying, okay, so how can you turn toward this amazing body that never gets a break and say, oh, my gosh, you have been really hauling me around all these years, really, without gratitude and appreciation, how can I best support you? What do you need from me?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And so it’s a whole different way of thinking then. Well, why can’t I have that, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly, and you know what I turn around and say when somebody says that, well, can I just have this much of that? I’m like, sure, you can do whatever you want.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
But the results you’re going to get are this. And is that the result you want, you just told me that you wanted to have energy. You wanted to reverse your autoimmune disease or you wanted to get your gut function or you wanted to lose weight. You just told me all these things you want. I don’t know how to get them for you or help you to get them, if you continue to do these things that are eroding your body.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And we’re not getting them for you that’s the thing like we’re teaching you to get into this collaboration with the system of yours so that you guys can support one another and your body has its own consciousness, and so it’s like, no, it’s not betraying you. It’s just giving you data. It’s like your E on your gas gauge. You don’t get mad at your car, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Put a little sticky note over it and say, oh, look at that and that’s what we do with our bodies.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Or how come you need more gas? Why do you need that kind of gas?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Can I just put it’s convenient, I have some Coke here, I’ll just put that in. I don’t want to go to the gas station. And we can’t do that and that’s an analogy I use a lot.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
That’s the fuel for the car–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
They were here you don’t get emotionally tied in with your car on that. You just look at it as data, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah, got to feed you and here’s the best fuel for you, right? And that’s what we have to all–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
It’s individual for everybody.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
What’s the best fuel for me, and what’s the best timing of the fuel for me. And how do I do this? And like you said, your people are very smart and educated and that’s the people I work with as well. They want to know the why’s. And when I sit down and I explained to them, biochemically why I’m making a recommendation, they get it. And they go, oh, no wonder. Or if I explain their genes to them in such a way, they go, oh, okay, I hear you now.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right, that was why I did genetic testing on 100% of my patients, but we’re never treating the snip, we’re never treating the gene, we’re using it as like the X marks the spot. I always say on a pirate’s treasure map where you have to dig a little deeper, like, oh, here’s a place where you might want to pay attention. Let’s dig a little deeper and see what’s there, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So, let’s talk about how insulin contributes to inflammation. Because when we talk about auto-immunity any of the auto-immune diseases over 150 at this point have been reclassified as autoimmune including type two diabetes.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Including type two diabetes, yes.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And we throw them all in a bucket we can label the bucket inflammation. So how is insulin contributing to that?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Well, there has been numerous studies that show that people who have high levels of insulin or insulin resistant, but even have high levels of insulin before they’re diagnosed as insulin resistance which makes us question the diagnostic criteria that it increases the levels of C-reactive protein in the system. And we know that C-reactive protein is a, they call it a nonspecific inflammatory marker. ‘Cause it doesn’t mean you have lupus or thyroiditis or whatever. It’s a non-specific, it could be anything and it could be an injury, it could be a flu that causes it to go up. But it’s an indication that there’s inflammation in the body and when we have excess insulin, we have high levels of C-reactive protein which can affect the body in almost every place possible.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So the take home on that, the studies show is that when you reduce your carbohydrate load you drop your C-reactive protein proportionately 25% reduction, 25% reduction and you’ll see HSCRP. Is amazing, it’s like that.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Whoops, yep.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
And a lot of people throw out–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
They keep out proving that or why can’t I have this? It’s like, there’s the data right? There it is.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yep.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
And it does so much else. I mean, it raises your blood pressure and of itself will create issues that don’t lend itself to healing that causes this, the body to attack itself.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah and so, that inflammatory process, of course, when you’re attacking you, there’s no winner. So one of the pieces that will, I always talk about the puzzle, right? When the pieces of the puzzle in there when then insulin and sugar become a form of toxicity for you, how does that affect our genetics which is another piece of the puzzle?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Well, the genetic, we have these genes, right? And we’re born with them and people go, oh, my God I have this gene or that gene, I’m gonna get this disease or that. And it doesn’t mean you’re gonna get this disease or that, it means–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Please stop right there.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yes.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Everyone sync that in please absorb. Please absorb.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, that’s not what this means.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
It’s a tendency, right? And the way you live your life will determine which of those genes are gonna be expressed and which not. And when we have this high level of inflammation and you’re causing damage to the cells and the DNA, it causes things to get expressed. So you may have all these genes that say how, I have a ton of genes for anxiety, ton of them, and I have genes for Alzheimer’s, I have genes for blood sugar imbalance. I’m not gonna get diabetes just because I have blood sugar imbalance, because I’m aware and I’m cognizant of it and I keep my carbohydrate levels. So I keep my antioxidant levels high. I exercise, I sleep, I do all the things that will prevent me from going down that path. But if I start eating Snickers and M&M’S like I did, when I was in my twenties, I would have diabetes by now. Probably and be on anti-anxiety medication, you have hypertension and all these other things. But I choose different activities that don’t activate those cells that don’t damage the DNA.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Reese’s peanut, butter cups and peanut M&M’s here.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yes, me too, exactly. Yep, isn’t, yes taking through there too.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, I used to eat them to stay awake so I could study.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
I used to eat peanut at dinner, because I’d rush from school to my job and I’d be on the train and what else could you eat? You get to work and you have to have something down, and it was peanut, M&M’s–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And I’d used to play the solo game and I worked in the hospital, where I would go down. I worked on the seventh floor, I go down to the basement vending machine. I would buy a doubles Reese’s and then I would walk the stairs or run them up to the seventh floor and think I kinda had that, oh, I just worked off.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
You point it off.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, so talk about that, like this negotiating that we do with ourselves, right? And people will always say, like, okay, so when we talk about leaky gut, they’ll say, oh, if you have leaky gut, you have leaky brain. Or if you have leaky gums, you have leaky gut brain and leaky gut. If you have leaky blood vessels, you’ve got… So all these leaky things, right? But one of the things I teach a lot is, and if you have leaky boundaries then you’ve got all of that going on too, and I’m not necessarily just talking about the boundaries with others in your life, but with yourself, right? The one that wants to go down to the basement at the hospital and push a little bit and then watch the magic orange candy come down, stick it her pocket and race up the stairs and think, right? That she’s just taking care of it, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
You didn’t care of it, I don’t have any calories in a Reese’s, I’m probably several hundred, right? Two, 300.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Mm-hm.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
You have to run it a decent speed at least 30 minutes to burn about 180 calories. So just think about that when you’re negotiating that little two minute run up the stairs, how many times you have to go up and down those stairs to burn the Reese’s that you just took?
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Well, that’s you mentioned the grams of sugar that are in there.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Well, yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Now, today in those days it was just sugar and nowadays it’s gonna be high fructose corn syrup.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Mm-hm, which screws up your liver.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right, so there’s no amount of running, that’s actually going to take care of that. And so that’s called exercise anorexia and I definitely had it and I was a sugar addict. I used to run long miles, marathons and that’s what I would do. Oh, three brownies. Okay, that means 15 miles, 15 miles tomorrow, I’ll do that, that’s okay. A 15 mile run out do me some good, right? That doesn’t equal, those things don’t go together.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
No, no, no, absolutely not.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Oh, but they’re homemade brownies, oh–
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
So made with whole grains.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
No, no, white flour.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
White flower.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Apply your sugar back in those days,
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
That’s good.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
right? But hey weren’t processed, so somehow that must mean something, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Right, right.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
No.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah, I love that concept of boundaries with ourselves, ’cause we bargain anybody who’s ever done any emotional eating, you know that if there’s something in the house and you’re like I am not gonna eat any more Reese’s tomorrow but I bought this big bag of like 15 Reese’s, so I might as well finish them tonight.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
But they don’t get to–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Start a fresh tomorrow.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
And I’ll start a fresh tomorrow and then you make another trip to the store and it also, you maybe you’re a good for a day or two and even a week or two.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
But it usually comes right back and you go, huh, how can I resist this?
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So I’m seeing a lot of this with tongue and cheek but I’m also wanting to point to the extreme pain that is here, right? This is a lot of pain that is happening because then on top of all of that comes shame and guilt and lack of worth and how come I can’t just, and what’s wrong with me, right? All of those things that go when you you just named emotional eating, right? So when I exercise anorexia all of this negotiation and lack of boundaries for self, we’re not saying like, just do it, right? You’ve got these gut bugs that you have fed sugar too for years and when they wake up at two o’clock in the afternoon, they’ll say, I’ll eat now and they definitely know what they want. And so that’s when you’re cramming through the pantry, like is there anything, right? So when we’re talking about those, I just wanna make sure that you don’t see us saying it’s light, it’s not light. And part of what Dr. Ritamarie is pointing to here, is when you can start to check your blood sugar when you can start to really monitor, right? This is different than getting on the scale every morning. This is different.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yep.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
This is actually really turning toward your body, a scale once a week, fine. So that you can kind of track things on that level but we’re talking a micro level right now.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly, and it’s important that you get, and it’s very empowering actually to test your blood sugar, I don’t mean testing it first thing in the morning, once every year, when you go in for your annual physical or even more often than that. But it’s actually, there’s a very specific methodology for testing your blood sugar, so you could see what the peaks and the valleys are, and you can see, well, what caused that? So it’s empowering. Oh, I got stressed out and screamed at my kids at that hour and I didn’t eat anything, but my blood sugar went up or I just–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Wait, wait, wait right there. I didn’t eat anything, but my blood sugar went up. That’s the killer that people don’t get, like I don’t even eat anything that you’re talking about but my blood sugar is out of control right there, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly, and I call it the candy bar eating effect of stress.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yep.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
I remember writing an email or a blog post a few years back where it was must have been an email. It said, I ate a candy bar today and now everybody on my list knows I don’t eat candy bars anymore. That’s not something I did, so everybody opened that email of course, to read it. And it was, well, I didn’t get the pleasure of eating the candy bar, but I lost control and I screamed and yelled, at something I could have just meditated for two minutes on and calm myself down, my blood sugar went up to 150.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
That’s what would have happened to maybe even higher if I had eaten a candy bar, maybe not. Maybe that was exactly where it would have gone and they didn’t get the pleasure of the candy bar.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right, well, I discovered this when I was a floor nurse and when I was like 20 years old. When someone would, I worked in the cardiothoracic ICU and I put together the cardiac rehab program and so I would see people before they had surgery. And then after they had a coronary artery bypass graft and then I would see them afterwards, right? And anyone that was diagnosed with diabetes I started seeing that like, they’ve been NPO, nothing by mouth and yet their blood sugar is sky high right now. And it’s the stress response, right? Their need for insulin goes up in the face of stress.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yep.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So, that’s… And I was like, whoa, okay, I haven’t called it the candy bar effect but the, that stress response to whatever’s going on.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Whatever’s going on.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Whatever’s going on.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yes.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So, is why I hone in so much on emotional work in my practice is because it affects everything. Not just the need for right insulin, but I want people to hear that when you just said that, like my blood sugar went up when I screamed and I didn’t eat anything ’cause that confuses people.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
It does, yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
So like I’m just eating, I’m eating all the things you told me to eat, I’m doing a good great job. Why am I, why is it just . I feel like I’m just listening to yourself.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
That’s actually the perfection thing that’s causing the problem here.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Well, yeah, I was just talking about that to somebody today that perfectionism that causes us to get so stressed out and then to Benji because we can’t be perfect. I actually had to give somebody permission yesterday to eat dark chocolate, because she was willing to let go of the ice cream and the candy parts of the cake and all this other stuff. She goes, I just need something, so I get frustrated, I can’t give it all up. I said, eat dark chocolate. She goes, what? That has sugar, that’s gonna… I said, you know what? It doesn’t have as much as all the rest, and it doesn’t have all the gluten and the dairy and all the inflammatory stuff in it. I’m just gonna give you permission right now. Just eat dark chocolate. And then when you’re got the other stuff then we’ll talk about how do we manage it from there. But she knew it, ’cause she was so perfectionistic that if she’d go for a day or two without eating the ice cream or the cake and then suddenly it’s like, she was overwhelming and then she just go back and eat it all.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Well, often what’ll happen is a day or two and then not seeing something happen as a result.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right, and then going ballistic ’cause it’s like I have an expectation that what I do is going to make this change. And it’s that high level of hypervigilant expectation that’s actually causing the problem.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I see that all the time and inflammatory markers too.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Right.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right, it’s like this heightened is this gonna work, is it’s gonna work, is it’s gonna work. I’ve tried everything, like you can’t break and insomnia pattern with that kind of energy, right? And I just sleep calming, just asleep if I do this, it’s like, well, no, you’re probably not.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
That maybe worse.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, I know.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
You’re worrying about it.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Exactly, so we’re pointing to blood sugar but it’s actually everything that goes with this, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
And, yeah and that stress response, right? I call the, at the heart of just about every, if not every chronic disease, chronic condition is hyperreactivity of the sympathetic overload, the sympathetic nervous system being the fight flight nervous system. And when that’s hyperreacting, where high levels of cortisol, which raises blood pressure, raises blood sugar, it causes you to put belly fat on and burn away your calf muscles.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And it causes you to express your genetics in a way that you perhaps don’t want them to express, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Oh, want to express exactly.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right, yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Right, and that’s the it to me I find for people the hardest thing for people in this type a hypervigilance situation that’s harder than the food changes, easily is changing the stress response.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, yeah, the energy around it, yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So you were doing a list and I broke in because I’ve really wanted people to hear the candy bar eating effect, but without the candy bar–
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
What was I saying?
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I’m so sorry.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
It’s okay, we gave some good information.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
We arrived on it.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what did I say, they said that the kind of–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Reasons that your blood sugar always go up.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Oh, yeah, so watching your blood sugar, right? So you measure.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
You measure it before you eat, you go, oh, it’s an 85, good, that looks like a good number, you write it down to, make sure you write it down ’cause you won’t remember it three hours later, no way. You write it down and then you go, okay, what is it right after I finished my meal? You write it down. And then most people have a peak like where the blood sugar is gonna get the highest it’s gonna get about 45 minutes later. Some people have, or some people are an hour. If they’re eating really slow, lots of fat or slow absorbing foods, maybe it’s an hour and a half, but you kinda I have them do it every 15 minutes to start, just to see is, do you have a pattern of where your peak is? And you go, oh, I just ate a sweet potato, I thought sweet potatoes were healthy but my blood sugar peaked at 150, right? That’s not good. It doesn’t mean you can’t eat sweet potatoes anymore. It means that maybe the sweet potato alone didn’t have enough minerals with it. I have you, oh, we’ll try the sweet potato smaller portion with a big green salad or steamed kale or something like that.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
A little bit of ghee, little bit of protein.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah, whatever it takes and you basically measure that, and you figure out what you can eat to keep your blood sugar in that nice steady range. It’s so empowering, that’s where we started with, It’s so empowering, whereas that stress response is so disempowering, right?
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So monitoring very, very closely on a micro-level as opposed to a macro-level, which is getting on your scale. Because that’s a bunch of, the scales giving you a bunch of information that is kind of far upstream. It’s not downstream where you want to start.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Right.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And so that can become very frustrating, right? To just deal on that macro-level instead of over here, right? It’s like, oh, I see you now I see what’s happening if I put that in, I see you body, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yep, exactly and I was just thinking this, but there’s so many things that tie into the weight. But as you talk about that, we measure weight of our own a week, but there’s so many changes in our weight throughout the day. How much water did you just drink? How much coffee did you just drink? How much exercise did you poop? There’s all kinds of things that affect it. So if we were to step on the scale every 15 minutes throughout the day, we may see patterns and then not be so scared when we see ourselves up a little bit, oh, that’s just part of my pattern. Oh, typically at two in the afternoon because I’ve just whatever, it’s my lowest. So I’m gonna test it then, but who wants to get on the scale every 15 minutes?
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Kind of–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I kind of feel like there’ll be less of a shame cycle about blood sugar than there will be about weight as a data point because in our culture, right? Looking a certain way is, goes with weight. You can actually have be an insulin dependent diabetic and not be shamed in our culture.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right? But over here, we’re cultured into this, the way I look, is so important about my acceptability into society, which is very sad. That’s so sad, right?
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
It is.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
And then that makes it worse because you have this body shame and then you just give up and you just, I’m a hugger look this way anyway. Okay, I’m going to go on the diet again. Oops, I didn’t do that. And it’s just the cycle of gain, lose, gain, lose and typically there’s always an increase after the cane lose gain again–
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right, I found you again with friends.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
I’m in the war, looking in the eye I’m making a party out of this.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I know.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
No, it’s sad.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I know.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
So there’s ways to do that, these instruments, the little blood glucose meters are like $15 at Walmart’s, right? And the strips can be very inexpensive there as well. You can also get a continuous glucose meter for people who don’t want to poke, you have to get somebody to write a prescription for you but you put it on, I have one on my arm here. Yeah, you can’t see it through there, it’s a little bump there, but I wear one. Just why? Because I know how to eat, but I know that I can look and go, oh, I just, yeah, I shouldn’t have gotten so stressed, yeah. It gives me the biofeedback immediately and so I just keep everything nice and steady. So I enjoy wearing it just for that reason, some people might wanna get one and do it for a month and just see all those and get your patterns and then you can make some changes. I find if I take it off and I’d go for a month without it, I’m like, oh, it was a little bit more of that, organic low Han sweetened chocolate. And I’ll have a little bit more in that,
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Right.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
eating between meals as opposed to just having discrete meals or I’m eating too close to bedtime ’cause I’m not measuring. So, hey, when you don’t measure it it’s not there, right?
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Mm-hm, it’s ostrich in the sand.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
But then when you pull your head out and then you get your lab work back, it’s like, oh–
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Whoops.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
It didn’t just go away.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
That’s not right, no. And it’s so nice to feel empowered as opposed to handing over the responsibility for your house to someone else.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, I agree, that is what you and I are both about is teaching you to actually be in charge of your own reality. And that’s why I love having a sister in this world and why you’re here, so…
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Exactly, I love it.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So you are offering a breakfast menu option book and I went as your free gift and this is such a great idea because people will say, well then if I can’t have waffles and a can’t cut pancakes and if I can’t have, right? I always want to erase that anyway. But if I can’t have that, then what do I eat? So this is brilliant, so if you wanna tell everyone a little bit about it.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
I would imagine cat hormone hacking breakfast menus, and the ideas that they’re breakfast whether you eat breakfast, first thing in the morning or you do intermittent fasting and needed it two in the afternoon, it doesn’t matter. But when you break your fast, you wanna break it with a well-rounded meal. So there’s five components that I tell you about and I give you some menus for that, and then there’s a bunch of recipes in there. But the five components being, you want something with greens, you want something with good omega-3 fats. You want something with a lot of fiber, right? You want something that has protein, and then my fifth one is probiotics, that’s your bonus. Something with good organisms to feed that microbiome. So those five components you may go out, do I do that? I give you some menus and some recipes.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Beautiful, beautiful.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Yeah.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Love eggs with greens, a little flax oil and some kimchi on the side, you know, hmm. So that’s a really good idea. So, we’ll have all of that with Dr. Ritamarie’s talk and her contact information. I just wanna say thank you so much.
Ritamarie Loscalzo, MS, DC, CCN, DACBN
Oh, you’re so welcome, thank you for having me and just for making it so fun.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
All right, everybody until next time be well.
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