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Dr. Goel is a medical physician and founder of Peak Human Labs. His mission is to speak knowledge of the latest cutting edge medical tools and science in order more people to live in a Peak mental, physical and spiritual state. You can learn more about his work at longevity.peakhuman.ca. Read More
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D., is a psychologist with over 40 years’ experience as a business executive, serial entrepreneur, educator, and author. She is President and co-CEO of HeartMath® Inc. with HeartMath founder, Doc Children. Deborah has penned a dozen books herself and co-authored with Doc Childre the Transforming book series, published... Read More
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Hi, everyone, I’m Dr. Sanjeev Goel and you’re listening to the Advanced Antiaging Technology Summit. And today I have Dr. Deborah Rozman, Ph.D. with me. Dr. Rozman is the Founding Executive Director of HeartMath Institute, and a key spokesperson for HeartMath and the HeartMath system around the world. Along with helping develop, oversee and conduct HeartMath training programs since its inception in 1991, she has 30 years of experience as an entrepreneur, business executive, educator and author. Dr. Rozman gives media interviews and keynote addresses worldwide.
She’s appeared in documentary films, tele-summits and major magazines and on major television networks and internationally syndicated radio programs. She has trained and spoken to Fortune 500 companies, government agencies, and the US military scientific health conferences, schools etc. Besides authoring a dozen books herself, including the award winning, Mediating With Children, Dr. Rozman co-authored the five book transforming series with HeartMath founder Doc Childre. She is regular columnist with the Huffington Post. Dr. Rozman covers a range of topics in her speaking engagements and presentations, key among them the hearts role and stress management, resilience, heart and performance, heart coherence technology, and the current shift in global consciousness. Thank you, Deborah, how are you?
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Oh, I’m wonderful, good to be here with you.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
I’m so glad that you’ve taken the time today to tell us all about this technology. So maybe just I’d love to just understand a little bit how you got into understanding the value of this, I think heart coherence if that’s the way of describing it, and story would be great.
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Well, there’s lots of stories. Mine’s probably starts when I was young. I was at the University of Chicago studying attitude change theory, I’m a behavioral psychologist. And it was all in statistics at the time, and I knew I wasn’t gonna learn about how to change my own attitude or help anyone else do that, that way, and so that started my search for methodologies that would work and things that weren’t just philosophical, or religious, involved in meditation and yoga, but I was always looking for a way to research, how one could understand the physiology and have that enable us or facilitate us to change behavior. And I met the HeartMath founder before HeartMath was called HeartMath.
Doc Childre who was a stress researcher, and this was in the late 80s. And he said, you know, stress is gonna keep getting worse and worse and worse, ’cause of all that technology that’s gonna be coming. And, you know, people don’t know how to live from the heart or manage their emotions. Nobody ever teaches us that. So he wanted to research, how the heart and brain talk to each other and see if we could find some keys there. And he talked about the intelligence of the heart, which he intuitively through his own meditation understood was something real and accessible, not just metaphorical, like the wisdom of the heart. In all cultures, talked about referencing the heart as a center of intelligence or wisdom from the ancient Greeks, the ancient Egyptians, the ancient Chinese.
And it wasn’t till the 15th century, where it all got compartmentalize, like, this was intelligent, and nothing else was, and the brain. And we still are living in that paradigm and it’s really hurting us. And the only way you can really begin to understand yourself emotionally or manage stress reactions is when you synchronize our brain nervous system you really get alignment inside and get a perception shift is the key to powering up behavior change. So our research discovered, at the HeartMath Institute, which we started to do this research, that when we’re feeling frustrated, stressed, anxious, angry, any of the stressful emotions, the heart rate rhythm, the beat to beat changes in heart rate that happen over time, create a pattern that’s very chaotic and disordered. And it really mirrors how we feel inside. The more angry, upset or worried we are the more chaotic that rhythm pattern is. Measured by something called heart rate variability.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Right.
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
And when we’re feeling love, care, kindness, compassion, joy, the more uplifting qualities of the heart, that HRV pattern turns into this beautiful sine wave pattern, a coherent waveform. And so we call it HRV coherence. And then we began to do a lot of research of A, how do we shift from the stress reaction into that coherent waveform? How do we get our HRV to change? You know, bio hack the heart, really, and how do we do it? And then if we do do that, what happens in the pathways between the heart and the brain?
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
talking about, I mean ’cause I’ve been reading about that obviously more variability is good, like, that’s what they’re saying, is that .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Yeah, . Good question, there’s two different ways of measuring HRV. One is the amount, you know, how much your heart rate can vary from peak to peak, like 90 minutes, beats a minute down to 60, and how flexible we are to go from one to the other, like, if you’re sitting down and you need to run up a hill, you want to get to that higher heart rate very quickly. And then just like an athletic performance, you wanna be able to bring it down very quickly. That’s called amount of HRV. What we discovered at HeartMath Institute was the pattern of HRV over time. Meaning whether you have a little bit of HRV amount or a lot. What does it look like over a minute of time or three minutes? What’s the pattern? What’s the waveform? That’s where you see emotional state, and that was profound. That was published, in the American Journal of Cardiology in 1995, as the first time that there had been any link between emotional state and the rhythms of the heart.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
So this heart rate, does a normal sinusoidal variation that happens with breathing, right? Is that what you’re saying that.
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Yes, but.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
announced as if one is more in a relaxed state?
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Actually, you’re asking the right questions that I can respond to. Coherence is not relaxation. When you are in a relaxed state, and you’re breathing in a relaxed way, you’ll see a little more of that sinusoidal wave form, but really, it’s more parasympathetic activation, relaxation is parasympathetic. And what you’re seeing in the whole HRV is the interaction between the sympathetic nervous system, which speeds up heart rate, and the parasympathetic, which slows it down. So in relaxation, you’re gonna see more going down, more of the slow down, and in coherence, they’re even. And what that does in the power spectrum, if you’re a scientist looking at this is that the two branches entrain.
They synchronize. Coherence is synchronization between the two branches of the autonomic nervous system. And that increases the amount, it powers it up. And it actually enables the entrainment of the brainwaves ’cause it’s such a strong signal. So as you practice coherence, which is not just a sleepy, relaxed state, it’s a high performing state, ’cause you don’t wanna, you’re not gonna, when you wanna perform, you don’t wanna just be relaxed. You wanna be relaxed, but present. Ready, in the ready state, but relaxed. So that combo is what happens and how you feel when you get coherent. And so practicing heart rhythm coherence, you can breathe yourself into that, but that doesn’t feel good very long. It’s really the emotional shift that enables you to sustain that without having to focus on the breath.
So HeartMath techniques are starting with heart focus breathing, and then adding a positive renewing emotion to that, like appreciation, or gratitude, or love for your pet, or what you feel, you know, a warm hearted feeling and putting your heart into it as the saying goes, that’s what really creates that coherent rhythm, and that’s when we know just doing that for a few minutes synchronizes the brainwaves all the way to the frontal lobes. So your executive decision making is sharper, you have clearer thinking. It enhances your ability to make effective decisions and your connection with intuition and flow. So it’s really a ready state for the flow state, and it has a lot of other health benefits ’cause the autonomic nervous system is controlling 90% of your body’s involuntary function. So coherence is an optimal state for health and performance.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Just so I understand and to apologize .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
It’s okay.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
It is a tougher part. So you think coherence of the autonomic system is in coherence with the parasympathetic is in coherence with the sympathetic is that what’s happening?
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Yeah, they’re entrained. So imagine these two branches, one’s speeding heart rate up, one slowing it down and imagine those peaks and the frequency spectrum entraining. Synchronizing. As it, they synchronize at 0.1 hertz to become one peak, instead of the parasympathetic here, and the, you know, high, low frequency here, they become one frequency.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
So it becomes stronger and lower, like that are lower, because they’re both acting in unison.
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
They’re both, yes.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
And then you’re saying that the brain is also frequency of the brain .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Right, alpha rhythm synchronizes to that frequency, there’s two pathways by which the heart communicates to the brain. There’s actually more neural traffic going from heart to brain telling the brain how the body feels, than there is from the brain to the heart, and that’s just turning physiology upside down. And both are important. But the hearts input to the brain is really telling the brain how the body feels. And from blood pressure waves to electromagnetic waves, and through the vagal nerve, the vagal traffic from heart to brain. There’s more wires going from the heart to the brain through the vagal nerve than in the other way. And it passes through medulla in the back of the head right to the amygdala, the emotional memory center. So when you’re afraid or panicky, and your heart rhythms all chaotic, it triggers in the amygdala memories of when you had that before, it reinforces what is the trauma, or the emotional memory stored there.
When you switch into coherence, it starts to bypass that or it starts to sue that, and it starts to give you new perceptions and feelings. And then it also another pathway goes straight to the thalamus, which is responsible for synchronizing cortical information. And when you’re frustrated, or angry, or stressed, that signal is sent from a heart rhythm pattern to the brain, saying chaos, in coherence, and the thalamus then triggers the fight, flight, fright reaction, the stress response to protect you, a survival mechanism. When you’re in that coherent wave form, the thalamus synchronizes cortical functions, so now you’re operating in alignment. And it’s beautiful that with just a little intervention, you can take charge of a lot of that neural traffic.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
So let’s flow state. You were saying that this happens, if this is kind of what happens in flow states, when people are, I don’t know, performing in sports, or whatever, are they more likely to be in this type of coherence, or let’s say meditating? Is this .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Depends on the state of the emotion. You can be meditating and sitting there and fuming inside at your boss the whole time, and you are not gonna be in coherence. Or you can be in a state of joy, and feel connected to life and nature. And yes, 0.1 hertz, that frequency is nature’s resonant frequency too. So if you get into the coherence, you feel more connected with others and nature and your own larger self. So if you’re in sports, depends if you’re in a sort of flow state, and you’re breathing, and you’re feeling, and you’re connected, and you’re just in that intuitive flow, you’re likely to be in conference.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
You know, when I first heard about it I thought, oh, maybe this is related to energy systems and, you know, like, other medical systems, like chakras and things like that. Where we, you know, we have a heart center. Why do you then tie these, are these things tied at all? Like, with different .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
They sure are. I mean, the energy, we call it the energetic heart. That’s where the spiritual heart so to speak, the heart center, where you know, connects with the physical heart. And you see the evidence in the heart rhythm pattern. So when we feel we’re in these intuitive flow states, we’re getting a download of information, we’re connected to something, our higher self, or whatever we call something larger than our day to day consciousness, we’re usually in more heart coherence, ’cause everything’s synced up. And you wanna know that the chakras are receiving this information from somewhere outside of time and space. So you’re getting these downloads from some other dimension. And that’s certainly coming through all the centers but the heart centers the main trunk line. Love and the qualities of the heart are the main activators of that universal connection.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Perfect. So just one quick. So I wanted to maybe just tell the viewers a little bit about what does this actually look like? How does one actually use the device? I don’t know if you wanna talk about it, like .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Sure, well, the device looks like, this is called a lightning sensor, and it plugs into your iPhone. We also have one that’s a USB C-wired sensor plugs into your Android phone or tablet. And we have a Bluetooth sensor, which I didn’t bring with me which plugs into you know, either one can be used with Android or iOS.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
ear and is just like .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Yeah, it clips onto your ear. All of them do the same functionality, whereas the ear is one of the best places to get accurate heart rate. And then the algorithm and the firmware in here converted it to heart rate variability. And then from there, they look at how much coherence or synchronization is in the HRV pattern. And it all works with an app called the Inner Balance App, which you can download from the Apple Store, it’s free or Google Play Store. This you have to purchase. But the app is a trainer. We call it the Inner Balance Trainer ’cause it trains you of how to guides and how to actually get into that heart rhythm coherence state and gives you feedback when you lose it. And you become more conscious of what takes you in and out.
And it’s very sensitive. So you can be in the HeartMath techniques are what make it work. You’re practicing this shift of the heart and heart focus breathing, and then activating a genuine warm hearted feeling such as gratitude for someone or something in your life, it doesn’t matter what, it’s the feeling that counts, and you see your HRV changes, you do this, and it’s very empowering to see wow, I did that, and then you keep doing that for a little bit to sustain it, and after few minutes it’s synchronizing your brainwaves, and you can actually feel like you’re at more ease, more clarity, more clearer thinking. And the app has different guides that take you into different ready states like before asleep, or how to connect with more intuitive decision making about a choice you need to make.
Or anything that can prep you for more ease and flow like flow states. Like there’s probably seven major league baseball teams that are using this in the dugout, you know, pre and post. And golfers use it pre and post. SportsEd TV, which is just launching is featuring it. For all sports, for soccer to basketball, because, again, you wanna get in sync before you perform or whatever you wanna do creative projects, or if you are stressed out, you that meeting or something triggered you, that email that you just got, you wanna be able to quickly get back in sync so that you’re responding from more of who you really are instead of your reactive self. It helps you regain emotional poise and recenter really quickly. And the whole idea is, yeah, there’s coherence scoring in there to improve your score and baseline.
But the whole idea is to have the carryover effect. When you get your autonomic nervous system in coherence, it carries over into your next activity. You know, so you’re more harmony in your interactions, more creativity in your work, more ease and flow in your day to day. And that’s what you want, how to live life more effectively. And this is the ready state for that, ’cause it’s the body’s in nature’s natural frequency, you wanna be able to return to and then after a while you develop the reference, what it feels like, and what the technique you use just to get back there. And you don’t need to use it all the time or as much, but it’s been training, it’s like training wheels on a bike you do wanna use it to know when you’re actually in HRV coherence instead of assuming you are.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
obvious to me. Like I mean, I can tell you that when I’ve started it I always, like it has a color coded wheel, I do a whole round stuff all green. But it does, once you get it, it happens but I wouldn’t have, when I first start think that I feel any that I’m worse or anything. It’s .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
That’s right.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Like it’s not something that .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Most of us, you know are trained to live from here up or when we think, think happy thoughts, we’re thinking. The feeling shift and the emotional shift, which is required for real behavior change, or real attitude shift, opens up new perceptions. It’s quite astounding how you can be perceiving this reality, you know, he did that to me and projecting what that means and you get coherent and you go, wait a minute, that wasn’t even real. And you know it in your heart, and then you perceive a different possibility.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
like 95% of our time is probably not in coherence then?
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Oh, no, you’re right. In most of our time is not in coherence. You know, with deep sleep, deep, peaceful sleep, we go into coherence. And when you’re really loving, you’re in coherence. You know, when your heart is open and connected, and you feel that, when you’re playing with your puppy, you’re probably in coherence more than in most times. So the idea is, how do you get back to that whenever you want to. And then as you create more of that in your baseline, you have more natural coherence in your system, even when you’re not using a technique.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Right, what is the science on is there studies that looking at sleep improvement, that people ?
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Yes, we have a book called The HeartMath Solution to Better Sleep. And, again, so much of our sleep disturbances, and there’s so many people nowadays who have a hard time sleeping or staying asleep, is due to the unresolved stress of the day. It disrupts our circadian rhythm, it disrupts our metabolic rhythms, and it’s very much involved in weight issues. And it’s hard to turn the mind off. You know, or we wake up with the same problems, we go, oh no. And the anxiety creates a pattern of incoherence. And it doesn’t just shut off when you’re trying to go to sleep, it can sustain, making it harder. So what we wanna do is learn emotional self regulation skills.
That’s not suppression, it’s not venting, something come back to inner poise and balance as needed. And that powering up through HRV coherence feedback is a accelerator for that. You can use it for with other techniques that you find valuable too, meditation techniques, but you wanna get into heart rhythm coherence first, and then do whatever other techniques you find helpful.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
One of the things I came upon on your site was this idea or about group coherence.
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Yes.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
I would love to hear and learn more about that was happening .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Well, one of the biggest problems we have in society is getting along with each other, right? You know, there’s so much bias, political, religious, and people just are so sure that their way is the right way, and everybody else is wrong. And unfortunately, that just creates tremendous separation and all the problems we see in politics and often wars. And that’s gone on for eons. And so one of the things we’re designing is an app where you can get in sync with your loved one, or a family or group of people, and look at your average coherence score, and together, go deeper in the heart. Put out more love or care compassion or the qualities of the heart, and increase your score and their collective score.
So it’s a fun way of getting more resonant with others. And as you do that you understand each other more, you’re more forgiving, and you’re more intuitive. So it’s wonderful for relationship. But it’s also wonderful for business. Being in the boardroom and creativity, or for team sports, of getting more resonant and in sync with each other so that the collective or the group effort can be more efficient. It’s more fun that way, too. So we have a new app that we’ve launched from HeartMath Institute call the Global Coherence App. And there you can create social groups, you can use it with the same sensors, and you also can see on a global map, where you are practicing in the world and where everybody else is.
So part of the research HeartMath Institute doing now is research on Global Coherence. With magnetic field detectors in different parts of the world seeing what the earth’s heart rhythms are, what the earth pulsating rhythms are from the Schumann resonance, which are the same frequencies as our brainwaves to the electromagnetic field emanating from the center of the earth’s geomagnetic field, which is overlaps the same frequencies as the human heart, including the heart rhythm at .1 hertz.
So we can see how we can synchronize with nature and with earth and how earth’s changes affect our heart rates, and we can begin to do some experiments. But the main experiment is what happens you get a collective of thousands of people getting into heart coherence and putting up radiating love or compassion into the planetary energetic field at the same time. It’s uplifting to all who do that. And we’re researching to see what benefits that has for the field, for the planet, for humanity.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Wow, and you were saying that this could be used with other technologies as well. And or techniques to.
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Techniques. Well, it’s own technology. I mean, you can combine it with other things just to see how it relates. But really, there’s people, for example, who’ve told me they’re Orthodox Christians, they use it with the Jesus prayer, because that’s it the same mantra, the same rhythm as your coherent heart rhythm. I thought that was really interesting. And so people use different types of meditative techniques to see which get them in more coherence. There’s different meditation techniques, some are intended to have you dissociate, and then you’re not gonna be in coherence. But a lot of them are intended to open the heart, and have you experienced more loving kindness, which will put you in coherence.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
I’m curious, what about psychedelic experiences? And has there been any studies looking at ?
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
We haven’t done any research directly with people in different states a psychedelic experience, although I’m sure individuals have. It really, if you put it this way, whatever your methodology, if you’re feeling uplifted in the heart, it’s likely you’re gonna be in more coherence. And if you’re not, and you use the inner balance technology, use the techniques, it’s likely gonna lift you into coherence, and you’ll feel more uplifted in the heart without having to take the segment out.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
That’s awesome. Where can people learn more about, where can our viewers go to learn more about ?
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Sure, there’s three different things you can do. One is you can go to HeartMath.com, HeartMath.comm/experience. And you can download the free 90 minute interactive video that has HeartMath techniques. And we’re giving that away for free. We started as soon as COVID hit the planet, when we first brought it out a year ago, March. And it’s been wonderful, people had so much help with it, that was our gift to say, here’s some of the science, here’s what we’re doing. It’s a beautifully professionally developed film, or interactive learning experience, in 10 minutes sections, where you actually practice some of the HeartMath techniques, and it talks about the inner balance app.
So you have that, there’s something called the HeartMath facilitator, which, you know, you can get the technology, the inner balance with instruction. And that’s at HeartMath.com. And then, you know, that’s how I would suggest people start with but you can buy the sensor, just by gonna HeartMath.com/tech, TECH, and explains the different sensors, we have the professional version for health professionals, called the emWave Pro, we have the inner balance, which is what we’ve been talking about, we have a Handheld emWave stress reliever. So that’s all explained there .
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
can actually do some of these episodes, even without the sensor,
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Of course.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
you can’t get the feedback from the device, which I think seems to be very helpful.
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Yeah, I mean, that’s what we do, then develop the device, because we have the techniques, they work. And in the HeartMath experience, you don’t have a device, you’re gonna learn the techniques without the device, they work we had that for years, we develop the technology rather than have people sit in our lab with this big lab equipment to see what was happening when you use the techniques. And so that gives you a chance to refine very quickly your practice of the techniques, but it’s the techniques that work, the technology is just the feedback tool that helps train you into more accurate and refined use of the techniques.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Has you’ve been in the stage looking at, you know, blood tests or biomarkers to kind of see how people are aging?
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Well, here’s a very interesting study we did in the early years of HeartMath, it’s since been replicated. We were teaching one of our techniques is a woman’s health clinic, there was an experimental group and a control group. And they practice the HeartMath techniques. And we took salivary IGA samples, before they learned anything and then about five weeks after, and they agreed to practice a few minutes a day, every day, or at least I think it was five days a week them two days off in the protocol. What happened was we sent the IGA samples to the lab. At the end of the study, the lab called us and said, what DHEA a supplement are you giving these people? And we said there isn’t any supplement because they all agreed not to take anything extra, was a real controlled study.
And the only variable was practicing these HeartMath techniques. He said, while the group had an average 100% increase in DGA, and an average 23% decrease in free fracture cortisol. You know, pregnenolone is the precursor hormone to both DHEA and cortisol. And he couldn’t believe that it was just a self management technique that they were just getting into HeartMath rhythm coherence, and it had that impact. But once he studied our research, he understood the autonomic nervous system controls 90% of our bodies and voluntary functions, including our hormonal balance, our immune system, our digestion, our sleep rhythms, I mean, so much. That’s what yoga teaches. And here, you’re really going right to the heart of the matter pun intended, and seeing what’s going on and feeling it so you develop that relationship and you learn how to regulate your own autonomic nervous.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Okay, a lot of sense to me. I think this is great. I’m really excited. And I hope the listeners got the gist of what is going on with HeartMath. I think this is such an important topic I wanted them .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Well, thank you. I mean, DHEA people may not realize is called the anti aging hormone. Cortisol is called the stress hormone. And the more stress you have, the more it shrinks your telomeres, which are the aging markers on your cells. And that is the fastest way to age just not deal with your stress. And everybody has challenges with stress waves these days, from the global situations to the acceleration of change, to whatever their own personal issues are. And again, if you can get into coherence, you can ride these waves of change with more balance and poise and produce more DHEA, which helps aging.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
What does next year look like for her HeartMath and what’s happening .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
This last year with COVID is menace expansion for us because more people are waking up to the heart, more people are feeling the nudge that it’s about the heart, that we’re not gonna solve our global problems just for the brain mind. And they’re, you know, they’re finding out about HeartMath. So we didn’t intend giving away the HeartMath experience to be in order to increase our list size and sell more product but that’s what happened. And so this year, we’re offering again for free, for people in our health professional certification program. We have 20, 30,000 health professionals who work with patients and have them use the sensor the HeartMath sensor in their balance out or the emWave and we’re developing more games, we have games right now in our emWave Pro and emWave Handheld. Make it fun to practice because it’s all about practice and increasing your baseline. So we’re growing in the corporate market, the hospital health professional market, the sports market, and the general public so and spiritual market, people use it to enhance their meditation.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
For sure. Yes, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time, Dr. Rozman. That’s .
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
You’re very welcome. Please come to HeartMath.com/experience and get your free program.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Okay, awesome.
Sanjeev Goel, MD, FCFP (PC), CAFCI
Thank you.
Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.
Take care.
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