What does Toxicity and Autoimmunity have to do with an EBV Viral Infection?

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

I love being here.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Our guest but people like you and, like, we have so much to talk about, right?

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Yeah, we have so much to talk about. Let’s go.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

So one of the things when we were just starting this morning, right? We were talking about the fact that, “Oh, we can talk about this and we can talk about this.” And one of the things that we were talking about was, okay, so current food resourcing, you know you were saying “Salt is not salt. Corn is not corn. Microplastic in all stools tested. In 90% commercial salt research is showing dah, dah, dah.” So I’m gonna let you go with that right now. And we’ll just put a quarter in you.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Okay, let me go fast and give some samples. Just because people, I think, were in denial saying, you know, “I eat food.” There’s, you know, we’ve been eating food for hundreds and hundreds of years. So there’s that for you. So couple of things here. You know, we have made so many changes in that environment the last few hundreds of years, 200 years, notably 50 years. And when you look at even old studies from 20 years ago, 15 years ago it’s very clear that American population is depleted and deficient in basic nutrients. They’re just not meeting even meager American standards. They’re not very high standards. In key nutrients like magnesium, zinc, antioxidants like vitamin C, very simple. 

But if you look at studies, it’s interesting because even protein level in produce is decreasing. And the DNA complexity in the soil and microbiome of the soil is really important. And that’s in organic soil it’s much healthier. In commercial soils we’re losing the most nutrients. And so if you look at the detoxification you have to have a couple of components. You have to have nutrients that run detoxification properly. And very simple things, let’s say very simple things selenium. Selenium is extremely sensitive to soil quality. It’s hard to get selenium in the soil right now. It’s not what it was 50 years ago. And selenuim, without selenium you can’t have proper thyroid function but you cannot make your most important antioxidant in the liver for detoxification called glutathione. It’s one of the ingredients, you have to have that. And you know, and the list goes. Common things that we do-

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Well, let’s talk about this for a second because I wanna hit on a couple of the studies in Peru. There are over 350 kinds of corn historically. And so in the Incan Tombs archeologists took corn out from these hundreds of years old, right, tombs. Where are these ears of corn still in tact. Studied them. They had more nutritional value than the corn that is being pulled out of the soil on this planet today.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

There’s not much nutritional value in the commercial produce we grow. And you know, when I moved to this country only, what, 25 years ago? I moved to Michigan and I remember eating tomato first time. And then I was eating a strawberry. Regular, you know, tomato, strawberry. And I couldn’t pinpoint what was wrong with those foods, I was not tasting the foods I was used to tasting, just because the farming, you know, practices have been so aggressive in this country and we’re losing top soil. So there’s like not much left. And even, I have to say, even in the organic produce that I eat here I do remember the intensity of flavors of certain seasonal foods from Poland and sometimes from local, you know, it was local. When I was growing up, it wasn’t so commercialized. I don’t get that flavor from organics. 

They just don’t have the intensity. So you can see that we have shifted the DNA, the nutritional makeup of what we eat and that reflects the studies. And we are so deficient. And if you’re deficient, you can’t run your processes very well. And detoxification is one of them. And then, you know, on top of that American diet doesn’t provide enough fiber. You don’t have fiber, you don’t move two stools a day. You are retoxing, you are redistributing toxins. They should be evacuated through the stool and getting out of the system twice a day. If it doesn’t happen in the colon, the colon will still reabsorb what it can, keeps reabsorbing the little bits of anything, water, you know, anything else I can take out of that stool. And if you have toxins in there, they will be reabsorbed. 

So even, you know, you have there’s double whammy then there’s triple whammy. Many years ago environmental work EPA had a study showing that the concentrations of toxins inside your home and right outside your home there is eight times concentration inside just because of the way we build and the way we insulate, the way we seal. And then we have forced air redistributing all the toxic debris. And then people live on the communities, aging communities. They move to Florida, they move to golf course communities. There they have contamination in the water. That’s some of the worst heavily sprayed areas.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I have been on rants for years. And you’re the first one that I’ve heard say about this because golf courses are contaminating our planet and all of the golfers that are listening to me right now, I’m so sorry, I know it’s offensive for you to hear this but how are those greens maintained? With a whole boatload of toxins. And it just goes into the groundwater.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Yeah. Yep. What people don’t understand is, and I hope our listeners will hear me on this, we are a closed system. In a way think about it, the water you drink is the same water dinosaurs were drinking from. This is the same system up and down, up and down, recirculated. So the concentrations of toxins that we getting is higher. There’s nowhere to go. We need to clean that somehow. So yeah, I mean, you know, you probably heard of studies on what’s going through umbilical cord in pregnancy. What the infants that are born now are coming with, they’re already intoxicated, so to speak.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And then we create breast milk, which has got all-

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

And the jet fuel… And, oh, there was a study years ago also on the women breastfeeding and jet fuel was in every sample of breast milk, regardless of where the woman lived. And, you know, jet fuel impairs the thyroid. There’s a thyroid epidemic right there. People don’t know that microwaving destroys nutrients. It’s hard to get studies but I have found studies, they are in my book and boy, like 97% of flavanoids, cancer protective flavanoids from broccoli, are lost just in microwaving. 

Whereas 11% is lost in steaming, huge difference. So if you rely on, you know, you go to a restaurant, we don’t these days so much, but I was having a sneak peek and I would see that in restaurants they’re microwaving our meals. I was, like, wait. I didn’t ask for microwaved meal. And I had a case of lead toxicity, most likely from garden hose. Garden hoses have lead in them. There’s garden hoses you can buy that are without lead, very special product, you have to know about it, but you don’t know about it. If you are a gardener and you use the produce, you’re gonna garden, you’re gonna get lead in your produce. You’re gonna eat that. And then people love bone broth. If you really make bone broth and cook it 12 hours, where is lead stored? In bones. What happens if you get everything out of your bones because you’re cooking and cooking and have lead out of the bones into the broth. And that’s been documented in a bone broth from organic chicken. Organic chicken doesn’t then qualify as, you know, lead free. We have lead in our bones. You and I.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I know, we do.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Yeah, we do. And especially with the lead, you know, history of lead that we were exposed to in gasoline before, until the seventies, I guess. Yeah. So I would say yes, we talked about salt. Was 90% of commercial salt that has microplastic and every single person tested had microplastic in their stool. This was a European study. People are from different countries. I think Russia, Finland, you know, Italy, they had microplastic. Plastic really confuses our immune system, can lead to cancer, autoimmunity. And plus, of course, Epstein-Barr virus. Viruses like that can trigger autoimmunity. That’s well documented. So I think people don’t understand, they’re looking for a detox this and detox that, but you can’t detoxify if you don’t have sound B vitamins. B vitamins are depleted in stress. 

B vitamins need to be supplemented daily for women because we are peeing it, pee it out, the B vitamins are coming out our ears, we’re losing those B vitamins. And so now more than ever the nutritional status is really paramount because and even in functional medicine I see this oversight. People don’t bring it in enough that our immunoglobulins, our immune cells are cells. And every cell requires nutrients. And they have nutritional needs. And then nutritional needs are nutrients, basic nutrients, bare basic nutrients like B vitamins, magnesium, zinc, antioxidants, lots of antioxidants,. And so, like in terms of viruses, if your nutritional status goes down, the virulence of viruses increases because of the genome changes in the virus due to low nutritional status. They hate antioxidants, but they thrive in low nutritional status. And so it goes, so we have more infections.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

One of the things about B vitamins, you know, is also 35% of Americans with genetic testing are, we’re finding out, that they are under methylators. So then sometimes taking B vitamins is actually, as a supplement, is worse for you because your body doesn’t know how to break it down and it has this overload of something it can’t manage. So kind of knowing that status, right? Or if you’re low in CoQ10 are you going to be able to take the B vitamins from your food and be able to make it into ATP units of energy, right on that Krebs cycle? We have so many genetic issues these days because of the exact same thing that we’re talking about. Our depletion, our toxicity, our burden in our bodies, right? 

So this is, I remember the very first time that I listened to Dr. Robert Rountree at the Institute for Functional Medicine talk about the toxicity of the environment and he was going through, Oh my gosh, I just remember sinking back further and further into the back of my chair. And this was probably 10 to 15 years ago. And he was talking about, “Yeah, the children’s playgrounds, when it rains, cadmium is released. And oh, when you eat rice, you have arsenic.” And you know, and I just remember going you know, like everywhere there’s toxicity, you know, and it’s like we have these bodies on fire because of all this inflammation, because of this toxic overload that reinvigorates Epstein-Barr virus. And it triggers our genetics to create the epigenetic expression of autoimmunity and cancer and heart disease. And I just remember going, “Oh my gosh.” You know? And so I can feel like our viewers kind of feeling that same way. And then, so what is it that we do with this information? This is really important piece.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

It’s very important because we are not genes. The expression of our genes depends on actually what we do. And you know, let’s say, I’ll give you an example of myself. Regardless of my genes, I had, you know, I am committed to a sound foundational diet, organic for many years, it’s not free of pesticides, but it’s the least pesticides exposure. Supplementation, you know, just being aware. Basics. Exactly. And I remember I was in my forties and a colleague of mine who has a big functional medicine practice tested my female hormones. And she was amazed that they were normal. Like, we don’t see these. He still shows it to her, PAs, you know, to her assistant. He’s like, “This is what it should look like.” Why is mine normal? And why is women’s not normal? What is the difference? 

The difference is choices because at the end of the day what happens is we have the bucket that you mentioned, we have a bucket full. And so the body is amazing If the bucket is full, you have to start somewhere. The body will start rearranging things and working for you. You just need to give it a little bit more and puncture that bucket so some of the toxicity- This lesson is very simple. You know, it’s very simple. If you have to go off, keep your shoes in the trunk of your car and don’t lick the ball and take some herbs for liver before and after, and B complex, for example. If you feel good on it, just like you mentioned, if you’re okay with that. So the things that we can do I think it’s like, you know, you drive it. You know, we learned in America without a car in America, you can’t really function. 

You can’t really get to places. So it’s a given that a 16 year old, you know, gets driver’s license and drivers classes and then you drive, right? So we have a new vehicle that we have to learn to drive. That’s bottom line. And, you know, it should be discussed in school, it should be discussed by the doctor. You know, this is it. You know, you need a new car, a new license, let’s learn to drive. What does it mean? It’s not enough to not to have- it’s not an option to drink tap water anymore. It’s just not an option. So this is one thing to be aware of, get some kind of water filter. It’s not an option to just mindlessly pick a nice paint. You do want the paint that has no volatile compounds, simple, you know.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

No VOC, you guys.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Yes, yes.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And get another extra coat. It doesn’t glide on quite as nicely as that lead based paint does.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

You know, I wouldn’t even know about that glaze.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

But you can actually sleep in the same room with it the night you put it on, you know. I mean, it’s so amazing to paint with that paint as compared to the old days when, you know, it would be like fumes everywhere. Yeah. No VOC.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

And you know, simple things that people don’t understand in this culture, you know, I’m from different culture. So we were kind of more aware, I guess. I’ve been in the States for 25 years. This is the first house in my life in the States here that doesn’t have forced air. Aleluya. And we were talking with my husband looking for, you know, places in America that don’t have so much mold because I’ve been exposed

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

But you wound up in The Pacific Northwest.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Well, listen, my husband was saying Arizona and then we’re looking at statistics. It’s the second worst mold. Why?

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

The air conditioning.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

You know, houses are so sealed to create normal temperature inside when it’s so hot outside. And then Jason Kester, who is a mold assessor, says, you know, “It creates this moisture inside the walls that you don’t see.” And I know in the sixties they sealed the homes. The windows were small. You know what we do in Poland? We open the windows and get drafts.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

That’s what we did too. We throw them open, you know. I sleep with my windows open. We have the windows open during the day. Yeah.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Simple fun. If you looked whatever you have stewing in the household, you know. The particle boards have formaldehyde diluted, open. So I think, you know, simple things, the air we breathe, air filtration could be good. The water we drink, we just have to have a filter and, you know, what can we control? These things and the choices of what we buy, we can control these things. We totally can. My husband came with very high glyphosate which is the most powerful most common pesticide herbicide on this planet. And the coalition was saying, you know, it’s not food, that’s not food. It’s gotta be water. This is just too high. And it doesn’t matter where you live. You know, we are on pristine island here, you and I, and we were living in the well water but it’s still picking up the rain, and the rain is picking up chemicals. It’s, you know, we’re stuck, we’re still in a closed system. Just being aware and being smart, suddenly you feel better and it’s not big changes. It’s just creating new habits, learning to drive.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And I, you know, I think another piece around this is also to not think about a detoxification process as an isolated event that you do every once in a while, that you live your life as, you know, people will say, “Oh, that 21 day detox you put me on. I never wanna do that again.” You know? And I’m like, “That’s actually how I eat every day.” You know, it’s not 21 days. And I take those supplements all the time. I will for the rest of my life. I take a supplement that we carry called “Femme Protect” which helps remove harmful estrogen metabolites through my liver because I have genetics that do not do a good job with that. 

And when I test sure enough I have these really elevated 4-Hydroxyestrogen metabolites. I take “Femme Protect”, I don’t have that problem. And it, you know, I don’t eat soy. I don’t have these issues with, you know, eating things that are estrogen mimicking or putting things in plastic. I’m really clean. But we have this environmental issue with a huge load of estrogen reproducing and mimicking, you know, things in the air, water and soil that no matter what. So you have to do things that assist if you know that that’s what’s going on. I also take another supplement that I will take for the rest of my life called “Complete Detox” which actually matches my genetics and it’s gonna happen until I die because my genes are not so great at getting rid of stuff. It likes to hold on. 

So, you know, this keeps me clean. When I do my data, I wind up having enough selenium. I haven’t, you know, like all of these things work. My thyroid is perfect. My estrogen and progesterone are in a good ratio with each other. I’m detoxing properly. And when I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis I was not detoxing properly. I didn’t know any of these things. So, you know, it’s really being in a collaborative relationship with your body that instead of thinking, “Oh, this is a deprivation”, you’re actually looking at your body and saying, “Gosh, you know, you’ve been carrying me around all these decades. How can I support you? How can I help you?” Right? And it’s like a whole different thing, you know? So I think that that’s an important mindset change that we live in a very toxic world and we need to help our bodies in whatever way that they need, which includes watching out for mold in our environment. Right? Doing the things that you’ve been talking about, making these changes.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Yeah. Yeah. One low hanging fruit is also Wi-Fi technology because it’s relatively easy to turn it down. So let’s not forget that because it’s a toxin, it’s an environmental, it’s a toxin and it can confuse a lot of things in the body. You know, it’s interesting that you say that, you know, you hold on to toxins. Me too, my face too is not so good but let’s say I just maintain, you know, regular lifestyle and some supplements. And they, and the only thing that can happen is if I don’t move my bowels twice a day, I will get a headache. And now I understand why, because I’m backed up, the toxins are retoxing and I’m holding on to them. So I need to make sure that I have two bowel movements a day. 

No, I’m all about movement, flow. And it’s just, that’s what it is. It’s just the simplicity of it is amazing. And the fact that the body has capacity and intelligence way past our brain’s ability to comprehend it. And it’s amazing. I mean, we have more neurons, synapsis than the stars in the Universe? So, we don’t appreciate the body enough. And like you said, we need to love it, embrace it and support it. Like, what else can I do? I am so sorry that I wasn’t helping you all these years cause I had no idea, but now I’m a better steward. So you can do all the magic for me. I don’t even have to think. You take over and you do what is beautiful.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And it never rests. You go to sleep and your heart is still pumping. Your liver is still dumping. Your lymphatic system is still draining. Your lungs are still exchanging oxygen. Your brain is still functioning. Your body never gets a break until you die. You know? So it’s like, what do you mean deprivation? What do you mean I can’t have Oreos? You know? I mean, I don’t get that. Like this poor body. Why would you stick sugar in its gas thing? Right?

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

You know, there’s, there’s one layer that I have to give people. One is that when your nutritional status, in particular, zinc, decreases you don’t pick up the flavor so much. And another layer is that, you know, if you’ve lived in America all your life, if you go to a place like Poland or a small country with more local produce, you’ll be blown away with a flavor or simple things like strawberry or cherries. Oh my gosh. I, you know, I hear this “I went to Germany. I had an egg. Oh my gosh! It was the most amazing egg in the world.” No, it wasn’t. It was a normal egg.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

It was an egg.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Yes, but in America we look at food as fuel, as necessary. And so there’s a lot of sugar and salt come into, you know, restaurant foods or food products because you can’t- the produce, the nutrients level is dropped. So the flavor is not there. I remember one of my patients was excited. She’s starting to eat vegetables. And she took a picture of, you know, frozen corn and frozen peas. It wasn’t organic, but it was vegetables. And each of these bags had two ingredients, corn, sugar, peas, sugar. Why would you add sugar? Sugar is toxic because it’s not sweet enough. Why is it not sweet enough? Because it lost the nutritional Oh, how beautiful.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

My daughter just brought this to me.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Oh, how nice.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I know. See? It’s all a rainbow of vegetables, a couple of eggs, right? It does have some Cholula sauce on it. Cause we love our Cholula in my family.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Well, you know, I’m sympathetic to people that haven’t experienced what the food should taste like and the herbs, culinary herbs, and spices help that, as you are just saying, but if you can experience what it should taste, then the food will create this amazing experience of pleasure. And that’s what draws us into the right foods. It’s not happening here that much because, you know, the pleasure is in sugar and salt. That’s what hooks us. Cause there’s not much flavor otherwise.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

And we feel bad when we do that. So yeah, we go in this retox detox rollercoaster with food. Yeah. Yeah. So what is the impact in the next couple of minutes that all this has on Epstein-Barr virus? I wanna make sure that we talk about detoxification’s role for Epstein-Barr because the CDC says 95% of Americans has Epstein-Barr.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Right.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

So let’s talk about like, what is this? And what can people do with it?

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Well, the first thing is do you have chronic medic condition that doesn’t seem to go away no matter what you do? Do you have autoimmunity that doesn’t respond to functional medicine, as you know? You have celiac and you’re gluten free and you’re still not doing well? Is there something, but here’s research that says if there’s something going on like that you need to exclude chronic Epstein-Barr virus. And that would mean that exactly that your nutritional status is tanking. You know, the first thing that will tank your nutritional status is stress because physiologically you’re peeing up, you’re sweating out nutrients like B complex we talked about, major player for ABD as well. And if your antioxidant level drops that’s gonna boost the virus. If you eat junk food, that’s gonna boost the virus. It’s very sensitive to antioxidant level. It creates massive doses of massive amounts of oxidative stress. So antioxidants are the most important. And you know, we don’t know that zinc is a mineral. But they’re also antioxidants and they can stall the virus. So in people that have strong nutritional status the virus cannot really do much. You know, we probably both have the virus in us.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

I totally do. And I want, I’m so happy you’re making this point because the medical medium Anthony William has kind of said “Epstein-Barr virus is responsible for all your ills” and you know, and I’m like, well, we all have it. You know? And so let’s talk about like how to be a hospitable host for it and how to be an inhospitable host? Which, you know, is this, I just gave a COVID vaccination alternatives webinar last night. And 2000 people showed up because they wanna know what else can I do besides vaccinate. And it’s, you know, I talked about the role of the virome and when you talked about outnumber the stars. So do the number of viruses that are within the us and that we’re exposed to, right? So this terrain versus germ theory and how they work together, like if your terrain which is fed by nutrition, is inhospitable then Epstein-Barr is not a player.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

No, no.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Nor is my Lyme. I’m also positive for Lyme, everyone.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

You’re not your disease, you’re not a disease to identify with. And that triggers, you know, the avalanche of chemicals secreted in stress and the rest is history. Yes. I think, you know, that’s why people can recover from something like EDV one day, learn how to turn down the volume on all kinds of toxicity, fumes, you know, air, water, food. In our community in particular dioxins are problematic. Dioxins are in fireworks, in burning forest, burning wood, fireplace, wood-burning fireplace. So, you know, I teach people to stay away from those. That can reactivate EBV that’s not well studied. So environmental toxins, Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi for this community’s particular detrimental. They’re just more high.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

We’ll talk about EMS though. You guys make sure you tune into that one on the summit because it’s a really good one. We really deal with the toxicity of of EMS in that one and why.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Yeah. And that is real for this community, that really needs to be cleaned. And then with the mixture of Wi-Fi technology and molds together, that’s not a good mixture. Because we have some evidence that if you expose black molds to, like say, a router, Wi-Fi router is gonna start producing mycotoxins much faster. And so, you know, and the way that the houses are built today, the craftsmanship, the shortcuts, you know, that bothers me. That we, you know… So it’s about 51% of commercial properties and homes have molds, and you mostly don’t see it.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Yeah, yes.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

So there’s like, yeah, that intensity. And then if you have Wi-Fi in combination of Wi-Fi exposure and mercury in your teeth still, then you have this current building that there’s some not very pleasant studies as well without combination. And if you add ABD do it as a triple that can reactivate EDV too. So yeah, it’s just being aware and doing not being overwhelmed, but just taking positive steps. And I think positive steps is beautiful foods, enjoyment and feeling successful that you have clean water, you know. Open those windows and breathe in the air, you know, getting out in the park, just not licking the grass in the park cause that’s sprayed with pesticide too.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

with the trees, right? It’s exchanging your carbon dioxide and oxygen with the trees, you know? It’s so important.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Oh, there’s lots of studies on the trees and the chemicals they secrete. They actually know you’re coming. They can secrete chemicals that actually have powerful qualities. So that’s medical prescription in Japan. That’s very common. They have a culture of forest bathing.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Forest bathing, yeah. It’s really important, yeah.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we have back to basics.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

Dr. Kines, thank you so much for sharing even a fraction of your wisdom with us today on this. It’s a big subject and I really appreciate you taking the time.

Kasia Kines MS, MA, CN, CNS, LDN 

Thank you for doing this.

Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C

All right, everybody until next time, be well.