Eric McDonald – Activate Telomerase to Stop Telomere Loss, Studies and Data

Kent Holtorf, MD

I mean, think it’s a great Molly to go over and, you know, as, as a supplement than as a drug, because yeah, God forbid you do something to prevent aging, you know it’s like, they’re not cure cancer. Too many people lose their livelihood.

Eric Macdonald

That’s true. So from 2002 to 2007, we did additional testing on the product and then we eventually marketed the product and launched it in 2007. So you’ve heard the phrase “timing is everything”. Two years later, you know, we got a really strong foothold into the tumor biology, you know, world when the Nobel prize in medicine was awarded to Elizabeth Blackburn, Carol Greider in Jack Schostek for identifying this enzyme telomerase that actually once activated, you know, that it adds these nucleotide bases to the telomere. So we were at the right place at the right time. And the curves on the product sales was just, I mean, because

Kent Holtorf, MD

I imagine you trying to explain it to someone, you know, this is what it does and they’re like three heads, like, why do I want that? And then that becomes common knowledge.

Eric Macdonald

It’s taken awhile, but you know, I was really quite surprised at how the the lay person, you know, knew about Telomeres so it got a lot of press, it was on 60 minutes, you know, like a thing in 2010  and then we just took off and then we had two other studies that were published in rejuvenation research in 2011 and 2013. And that again, just added fuel to the fire. And we just took off exponentially. And so here we are 2021 and we still are the only clinically proven telomerase

activating product on the market.

Kent Holtorf, MD

I was going to say, I don’t know of any other studies that when people say, Oh, this may do it. This may do it. Theoretically,

Eric Macdonald

You’ll get a lot of companies that will have, you know, these little knockoff companies or physicians that come up with some formulation and they’ll say clinically proven to activate telomerase. And it’s because they have like a Astragalus as an active ingredient, they don’t do any of those studies. They basically cite all of our studies and it’s not the same because we extract a single molecule out of the root. I mean, you start with a stragglers, but this is a given species of astragalus. And then we extract the molecule out of that. So it’s

Kent Holtorf, MD

Do you guys have a patent because a lot of people, they don’t do patent because you when have to do a patent. You kind of give away the secret sauce, right.

Eric Macdonald

We have a patent on the extraction process because you can’t have a patent on a naturally occurring substance.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And so, but it’s, it’s sophisticated, so someone can do it. They do do it. You give, then you can go after them. If you had to go after anyone

Eric Macdonald

On several occasions. Yes. And it’s, it just gets to the point where, you know

Kent Holtorf, MD

Or probably sometimes just make it

Eric Macdonald

You’re threatening them you know, you’re going back and forth. They don’t have the studies, they claim they can do this. And there’s only so much you can do, you know, and it’s, if you’re going to waste your money in court, you know, to do what I mean, they have to prove that their product works. They have to have the studies and, you know, studies for a very small company are very expensive. I mean,

Kent Holtorf, MD

Oh yeah and it’s interesting, our patent defense it’s one of our patients had a patent on all mobile searches, so he’s trying to Sue Google and it was just, of course did not go well. Yeah. And so yeah, that’s, that’s tough. I guess studies are very expensive. That’s why you don’t typically see them with supplements and they seem to be getting more and more expensive. You know, as time goes on to do a decent study, you guys have what? 10?

I have 10 peer reviewed trials to date. Yes. Wow. Well, we’ve been spending a little bit more than a million dollars per year on clinical trials. And we’ve been going since like 2005 with the studies. And then we found that, you know, I came in, I came from the pharmaceutical industry. I 

launched Lipitor and Cognex the first drug, when I came into this field, it was like, you know, it’s a little bit hard. Yeah. But that was an exciting time in my life. And I worked for Parke Davis and we had a product called Lopid which was a lipid regulator and its claim to fame was HDL increasing, and doctors would be like, well what’s HDL?. So there’s a real, kind of interesting bookends to my career, starting off with Lopid in like the early eighties. And now here, where you got two products that are basically ahead of their time.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. Nice. Nice. I remember lopid. What happened to that?

Eric Macdonald

I went generic. Gemfibrozyl is the generic name and Pfizer acquired Parke Davis, which was a division of Warner Lambert back in 2001.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Oh, gotcha. And like w what these studies did you study different population groups, different like what have you found? You know, where does this…

Eric Macdonald

We’ve had, we’ve had with pilot studies, we’ve had for a nutraceutical, pretty significant other studies, but the pilot study that we did was published in ophthalmology clinical ophthalmology in February of 16.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And that’s, that’s, you know, it’s tough to get

Eric Macdonald

and two way, you know, in a certain journal.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Sure. That’s a major standard medical journal.

Eric Macdonald

Right. So it was a pilot study that was looking at macular degeneration. So now that’s like you had to put a different hat on now, now I’m on the pharma side, you know, so we’re trying to just dibble dabble and try to figure out when it comes time to do major clinical trials for a possible submission to the FDA, for a pharmaceutical agent, what the best thing any company can do is strive. What therapeutic category do you want to be in? And what indication do you want your product to have?

Kent Holtorf, MD

Now? Can you talk about those because they’re

Eric Macdonald

No, I can’t. I can’t to, you know, to the normal world, you know, this is obviously it’s available, you know, the study, anyone can look up the study, but so that basically told us in 2016 that this particular agent, or this molecule passes the blood-brain barrier because it’s having impact in the retina. So then that triggered this whole response of now let’s do clinical trials and, you know, neurology specifically Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s, so those are just basically getting kicked off those studies.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. Again, yeah. It’s you know, the chunk of change and and it’s nice, it’s that it’s such a long history of use without side effects. And, you know, normally you’d get these drugs and they’re like, okay. And they were, but you know, now like a third eye or whatever. Yeah.

Eric Macdonald

Or the company starts with a dose or throwing a dart near, and they’re using like a 300 milligram tablet and they find out that 300 causes severe gastrointestinal problems. So then they go back to the drawing board and they say, well, let’s, let’s go with a hundred milligrams. Let’s see what that does. And then they get that sweet spot. They find it. But unfortunately, sometimes it takes a long time.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. And I was on last, this whole week conversations with the whole COVID thing and what’s true. What’s not, and you know how some of these huge pharma companies have so much money, you know, they can predetermine their studies by manipulating just the way that data’s done. But that’s awesome. Yeah.

Eric Macdonald

Well, there’s two of them two major studies that were published during the last couple of months. You had Maria Blasco out of Spain, she’s a big tumor biology, cancer expert. She heads up the cancer Institute out of Madrid. And she’s been a Telomere person for probably as long as Elizabeth Blackburn. And when she heard that the initial problems that people were seeing with COVID-19 that were long related, you know, like pulmonary fibrosis, she said, you know what? And it’s infecting the elderly. She’s like, what, what happens to the elderly? Their telomeres are shorter. And what happens in people with pulmonary fibrosis at any age, their telomeres are shorter.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And even like diabetics and hypertension. .

Eric Macdonald

Yep you can look at any study where you have twin studies. They did the astronauts have the, you know, the one that went up and it was up in space and, you know, the international space station for like up to a year. And he came back his telomeres were drastically shorter than his brother. But that was just going up and coming down, they did a baseline and it came back. But after about six to nine months as telomeres bounce back and they were the same as his.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Well, they should be a few seconds younger As of, you know, going the speed of light and less, you know, but I was watching a thing, like if you have a baby on a spaceship like that, the kid is going to be so different. Like when you can’t even get pregnant, you know, the, the sperm, I don’t even know where to go. And and they still have no bones. And like, you know, we’d be aliens. If we basically had generations in space, we would come back as aliens. How about that? And come back, you couldn’t walk. You couldn’t, you know,

Eric Macdonald

All those, you know, scifi movies are real.

Kent Holtorf, MD

It is you come back green a little head. Awesome. But yeah, I love that you guys put, I mean, the  companies don’t do that. I mean, they just typically don’t put so much money back into research

and you know, just 

Eric Macdonald

What’s fascinating though, is that all the studies that we’ve done, it’s kind of like this molecule has like a Midas touch. It’s always showing some results that is generally favorable. And if you think about it, you’ve got a product that’s impacting the DNA, you know, the end caps of the DNA, the telomeres, and we’re lengthening telomeres so in essence, we’re making this cell, you know, act like a younger cell. It can replicate more. I mean, the Hayflick limit is basically 50 replications and it goes through either apoptosis or it becomes senescent. We’ve had in the Petri dish and vitro have been able to have a cell continued to replicate ongoing. It doesn’t see a Hayflick limit.

Kent Holtorf, MD

I used to think I’d like to live forever. Now. I don’t know with all this crap going on.

Eric Macdonald

Well, the most important thing is, Hey, like

Kent Holtorf, MD

Just live healthy, I live very, very sick and you certainly don’t want to live. I’d rather not. You know? So this prevents that,

Eric Macdonald

Well, that’s David Davidson, Davidson, Claire out of Harvard. He’s the one that is basically, he said, Hey, you know, I don’t think in my lifetime. And I think right now he’s like about 50 years old. He said, I don’t think in my lifetime, I’m going to be able to take the mean age and have people live longer in his lifetime. He said, but I know for a fact, I’m going to be able to make those last two decades of your life a much healthier two decades of your life. And you know, we do, we do have it so backwards. You know, we really do. I mean, you work all your life. So you retire at 65 and you live to 85. Those are your two worst decades of your life from a health point of view.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Oh, Hey, you’re alive a nursing home. Oh yeah. You had a stroke, you got heart failure, diabetes. You got. And if you look at all the money, put in as well to keep someone alive for a year, it’s just the resources, you know? And I don’t want to live in a wheelchair and, you know, basically without my mental capacity and kind of living like that now. But the yeah, it’s, it’s a different live better longer, you know, then and then let me go, you know? But yeah, it is interesting. It’s like, well, but you know, grandma in the home and we’ll visit her for 20 years, like who wants that?

Eric Macdonald

Next door neighbor? My next door neighbor is 72 years old. His mother is still alive. She’s 104. And when I first moved here, like 13 years ago, she would come and visit and she would walk upright and, you know, walk down the street. And you’re like, she turned like 98, you know, he goes, yeah, I go, wow, she’s got a posture, like a 60 year old or a 50 year old. And, but she’s miserable. Especially during this pandemic, she’s 104 years old. And her husband died when he was 98. And she wants no part of being here anymore, which is sad.

Kent Holtorf, MD

What’s the use. I mean, I’d say if I’m that old, I’d love it. You get the right to say whatever you want, anyone you want. And I had this theory too, like in nursing homes, if people all dementia, they lose that frontal lobe and lose that inhibition and whatever their inner person comes out. That’s what they really are. It’s kinda like you know, me drunk or you got the guy who’s just chasing the women just nice as can be. And, you know so I think it’s interesting, but yeah, it’s take advantage of those golden years and retired at work in and, and live. And that’s what you guys are, are helping people do.

Eric Macdonald

So you asked me about different, you know, criteria that we looked at in our, in our studies. So our most significant study to date was I call it our Spain trial. It was conducted in Spain. The tumor testing was done by life length with which most people, if you’re familiar with telomere testing, they’re like the gold standard. And they’re based on

Kent Holtorf, MD

A couple of questions.

Eric Macdonald

And so we did a study, 117 subjects, double blind, placebo controlled. We had them on a doses of our starting dose, which is 250 units per day. And then we had another arm taking four capsules a day or a thousand units of which at that time we had a number of people, you know, the typical American way, you know, one’s good, two’s better mentality. And when people have deep pockets, they wanna they figure, Hey, you know, I’m 70 years old. I wanna take more. That might help me. And lo and behold what we found out is that the sweet spot in this particular study, which the inclusion criteria, everyone had to be CMV positive. So same cytomegalovirus, Herpes, number five. And the reason why is because the science was already out there, if you’re CMV positive, you’re a, basically a senescent T cell factory.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. You have your immune system shot and you’re probably going to get cancer. And you probably feel like crap and yeah, you probably have multiple medical problems 

Eric Macdonald

Ironically. I mean, the seropositivity rate is pretty stunning in the United States at the age of 10 30% of the population at 10 is positive. And it goes 1% per year. So by the age of 30, it’s a coin toss as to  whether you’re CMV positive or not. And it’s an asymptomatic condition generally. But if they do get symptoms from what I’ve been told, it’s like lupus, like some symptoms that happens generally later in life. But my word, if you know that you’re seeing them be positive and knock on wood, I’m CMV negative. And I mean, blocks I’ve had, you know, you know, coal source, the net, you name it. So I’ve had a number of the herpes strains, but I, I’m not CMV positive. I was low.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And it’s all about the immune system, you know, and I think to younger and younger people, we’re finding because of, you know, pesticides, toxins, you know, Roundup it’s like, and everything just suppressing the immune system. So the low it’s kind of like when you get the chickenpox or they bomb over the chickenpox. No, not really. It’s still there, it comes back out of shingles and drops. So it shows that all these people are getting low immunity and getting on EMFS. Like, it’s a problem. Like I.

Eric Macdonald

I just got my second vaccine on the shingles last Friday.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Oh don’t do it. Okay.

Eric Macdonald

I did because that’s the last thing I want.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. But no, no one should be getting shingles. They, you know, they need to fix your [inaudible], you know, it didn’t need it. You got, you got enough.

Eric Macdonald

My dad had it pretty bad at like age of 75. And he said it was one of the most miserable things he’s ever experienced and he’s done kidney stones and you name it. So

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah, yeah, no, that is true. It’s sometimes

Eric Macdonald

Had it in his mouth. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, MD

But yeah, more and more people are getting it because their immune system, we become immune modulator clinic because it’s just the, cause all these illnesses, you know, and as you get older and the more sickness you get the worst of immune systems, and now you get reactivating infection like CMV and shingles and everything’s a vicious cycle and you fix the immune system. And which that means is it replicates fast. And so it was the gut with the gut brain access. So you need to be able to have the cells keep up.

Eric Macdonald

That’s right. That’s right.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And so they need to be able to replicate, which requires telomere line.

Eric Macdonald

Yep. And they’re also noticing that the T cells and COVID-19 patients are being drastically impacted the CD four and CD eight T cells are, I mean, you can, we, we offer a UCLA immunology test that looks at about 10 different biomarkers of immunology, every clinical study to date, we’ve used the UCLA test to identify, you know, how people are reacting. We have a, what they call the CD8 to CD 28 negative, which is a marker for senescent T cells. So, yup.

Kent Holtorf, MD

I gotta check that out. Cause that’s you cause there’s really no great, like through standard tests and requires lab core like great ways of looking at the [inaudible] clinic, but we got to make a lot of compromises. Yeah.

Eric Macdonald

Right. So the four biomarkers that UCLA offers in this test are unique and custom. So you’re not going to find those at lab Corp or quest or any other.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Can you name those again? Cause this is for doctors

Eric Macdonald

CD8, it’s kind of like CD8 forward slash CD28 negative. And then you have one that measures naive T cells, you know, of course you want naive as good it’s young, that’s a CD8/CD95. So both of those positive, those are two, those are two biomarkers that are great to know. You know, you want to make sure that you have a good amount of, or optimal amount of CD95’s, which are naive T cells.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Because they need some reserves.

Eric Macdonald

Yeah, absolutely.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And so does the telomere length correlate with these?

Eric Macdonald

CMV correlates with the CD28 negatives? Cause you’ll have a very, you can almost look at this UCLA test and be able to identify someone that’s CMV positive, but you can’t definitively say that you gotta do an IgG titer to rule out CMV, but you can look at the numbers and you can say, if you look at it at enough of these Dr. Joseph Raphael got it all broken down, you know, what’s optimal, what’s, you know, okay. What’s normal. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Now, do you find these chains taking the product for

Eric Macdonald

Two studies that were published in 11 and 13? Look, use that test and there was a statistically significant improvement in senescent T cell reduction.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Interesting. And how long of a period does that take?

Eric Macdonald

Well, the study was one year in length. So typically you’re going to see immune response three to six months. Yep.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Okay. And then also you hear a lot of different telomere tests and here, well, it’s not the average, it’s the number of percent of short telomeres. Can you comment on that?

Eric Macdonald

The most important thing is the methodology that’s used. So you get a lot of these finger stick those are all PCR and PCR is just going to give you a mean or average telomere length. And that is amplified. They’re not actually measuring the telomere. So you want to use, you know with a call, see, it’s been awhile. I was telling you, but there’s life length, which is out of Spain. And then you’ve got repeat diagnostics, which is out of Vancouver, Canada,

Kent Holtorf, MD

Repeat?

Eric Macdonald

Repeat, Repeat Diagnostics. And both of those two companies use fluorescent in situ hybridization. So they’re actually fluorescening the telomere and measuring the individual telomere in the sample. So it’s a more exact measurement of what your telomeres are. And a repeat diagnostics looks at granulocytes and lymphocytes. So your granulocytes are what they call your God-given telomere length. That’s coming out of your bone marrow. They do not replicate. It’s kind of like a, like a handy, yeah, they don’t because they die in 24 hours. So, and they only come out like an ambulance when you really need it. So they pop up, they do their work and, you know, it’s kinda like you know, certain insects that come out for, you now, one day and hopefully find their mate and be on their way. So then you got the lymphocytes which can circulate in your blood for a decade and they do replicate. So you’ll.

Kent Holtorf, MD

I’m sorry decade?

Eric Macdonald

Yup. Yup. And you’ll find, you’ll find that those two cell types are generally a killer base different on average. So say as a 50 year old man, your lymphocyte will be 6.5, which is 6,500 base pairs. And then your granulocytes should be about 7.5.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Okay.

Eric Macdonald

So basically what it’s saying is the best you’re going to get at that point in time in your life is 7.5. If you do nothing, because that’s what your body is able to produce, but over time, but over time, yes, it’ll degradate and you’ll lose basically a full [Inaudible] base pair per decade. So if you’re starting off at, you’ve probably heard 10,000 base pairs at birth. And then usually as you get into your seventies and eighties, you’re roughly around 3000 base pairs. So now we’re talking seven decades of life and you’ve lost 7,000 base pairs.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Now, is that cells on average or for new cells?

Eric Macdonald

That’s just on average. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And so let’s say you know, we’ve been wanting to do this for a while is, you know, do a longevity program. And so we use TA65 we check their telomere length and then also about

Eric Macdonald

I would do their CMV status. I think that’s very important.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And do you think the percent of short telomeres is important measure as well?

Eric Macdonald

It ‘s very important. It tells you, so if you get like the average, it’d be like saying, all right you took a class in college and you got a 3.0, you gotta be in that class. Okay. But how did you get that? B were all of your tests? A 3.0, or did you have a couple of 2.0 a couple of 4.0 and you average three. So that’s where that short telomere comes into play. It kind of tells you really how bad you are or how good you are. So if you have a low percentage of short telomere that means that your mean telomere length is pretty rock solid. Like you got a lot of good grades. Okay. But if you have a high percentage of short telomeres, that means that you’re really kind of dye pulled with your telomere length. You got quite a few of that are short and quite a few of them are long to give you this average.

Kent Holtorf, MD

So, so when you find someone who let’s say, it’s kind of like, seems like a big spread versus they’re more say, let’s say they’re the same number. What’s the difference between the two people?

Eric Macdonald

The difference is, is that the ones that have a higher percentage of short telomeres it’ll end up catching up to them.

Kent Holtorf, MD

So, so they got some stress on those particular cell types and

Eric Macdonald

And every telomere I mean, we got 23 pairs of chromosomes. Okay. So you got four telomere on every pair. So you got 92 telomeres in your body and only takes one to get critically short. And the cell stops replicating.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And then which then causes all that inflammation to die.

Eric Macdonald

The bell becomes senescent, becomes cytotoxic. I use the analogy like when you have like a bunch of grapes and you’ve got them sitting out on the table and one starts to frost up, right. It starts to start to go bad. Well, what’s the next grape to go bad? Is it on the other side of the bunch? No, it’s the one that’s adjacent to the one that’s cytotoxic. So the same thing happens with senescent T-cells is that that cell become it’s rotting and it becomes cytotoxic and it basically poisons the other cells that are around.

Kent Holtorf, MD

So do you want to do like a Senolytic program and get rid of those cells before starting TA 65?

Eric Macdonald

Dr. Cleaver is a big advocate of the Senolytic approach. And I think that it’s, I think it’s ideal for someone that’s CMV positive that has a senescent…

Kent Holtorf, MD

It’s not hard. I mean, you can do a number of peptides and even flavonoids, you know, other things. So maybe do a couple of weeks or a month of that and then start. And then when would you recheck the telomere status?

Eric Macdonald

I would not do it but annually because the, you know, the accuracy of the test, you know, is one in which if you were to do it like three months from now or six months from now, yeah. You’re going to get, as, as Joe Raphael says, you got to look at your telomere testing, like a 401k. You do it every year and you just monitor your portfolio. Cause you’re gonna, they call it the oscillating hypothesis where you’ll get this, you know, almost like a sign wave it’s going down. You the line on your numbers going down, but you can’t get too excited because you know, maybe your baseline test life was good. You had no stress, you had nothing happened. And then a year later, you know, you had, you know, the death of a child or something tragic, or this pandemic we’re living through. I bet you every the, well, not even the U S the world population, I bet the lost telomere. It was quite a bit.

Kent Holtorf, MD

So what do you think is the biggest influence on shortening of telomere, stress?

Eric Macdonald

You name it, everything we know that’s bad for you impacts your telomeres, smoking obesity, stress, you know x-rays living in a city versus living in the country.

Kent Holtorf, MD

I’m going to search. Cause then I did. I just did a presentation on EMF’S and peptides protecting from EMF’S. And I couldn’t believe the studies on EMF’S. I’m going to see if they shortened telomeres. I bet you they do.

Eric Macdonald

Possibly. I don’t recall. I mean, there was a big study that came out about hypobaric chambers. I think it as in London and they showed lengthening pretty significant lengthening of telomeres, but it’s kind of like a Dean Ornish’s Mediterranean diet showing telomere improvement. But it’s gotta be realistic for example, this, this hyperbaric chamber. They had to be in it for 90 minutes every day for like three months. Well, I’m sorry. The average American does not have that capability.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Only MichaelJackson. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Eric Macdonald

It’s great to know, but not necessarily, you know, ideal and even Dean Ornish’s study. I mean, when you really kind of dig into it. Yes. The Mediterranean diet is favorable, but man, I mean the way that they had to live on that diet. 

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. I always say you don’t live longer. Just feels like it just dragging, but yeah, that’s what, I’m more like, have fun and take peptides, you know, but you know what I’ve seen, I wanted to ask you is some of these people like elite athletes and they’re doing triathlons and they’re in the best shape and you check their telomeres and they’re terrible.

Eric Macdonald

Yeah. Or do their like glycanage or their DNA methylation. And it’s awful. It’s awful. It’s oxidative stress.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. I’m like, these guys are the epitome of hell. And and it’s like, dude, sorry. You know? And so that’s why, I mean, I work out religiously every four months for eight minutes. I don’t care rain or shine. I’m doing it. You know, so, yeah. But that, that was very interesting when I, when I saw that it’s consistent too. But let’s see. Oh, let’s talk about your cream.

Eric Macdonald

Oh, TA65 for skin. Yes. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. So I’m a big fan. The we have to lock it up at the office because all the staff takes it. I think

eventually I have to hide it from my girlfriend because she tries to bathe in it.

Eric Macdonald

Takeaway is when a lot of people don’t realize, like you say, she bathes in it and a little bit goes a long  way. It really does the four ounce tube, which I think is more than gracious. I mean, it’s, it’ll last, it should last at least four months again, unless you’re bathing in it. But if you really, you, I mean, it’s an a Malian, what I call a tri ceramide base. There’s three different ceramides in this vehicle. And it spreads really  nicely. And ideally, just especially on your face, just a thin coat, because what you’ll find is that if you put too much on it, doesn’t absorb, it only absorbs a small amount of it. And then it just sits there. And then you have this kind of like, almost like, you know, sticky mess.

Kent Holtorf, MD

But you know what stuff works when you have to lock it up at the office, right?

Eric Macdonald

Yes, no most people that use it really do enjoy it. And they like it. We get a body just about a 20% reduction in fine lines and wrinkles of the crow’s feet. You’ve got about 10% pigmentation, you know, like a redness reduction. The real takeaway is we have an 89% increase in skin firmness.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Oh, that’s interesting. Because most things don’t claim that do that any hair growth?

Eric Macdonald

We were going to be doing this study in here, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you can tell, it’s not, it’s not working for me, but you know, again, I don’t use it every day. I, should I get the product

Kent Holtorf, MD

Well, it’s, it’s like, you know, the gobblers children’s children have no shoes. It’s like, like I find all the stuff like right here and I don’t do it, but I’ll go do it while I’m out of state or something.

Eric Macdonald

Yeah. And then we had a two to three fold reduction in inflammatory cytokines and proteases so like IL6 TNF alpha, MM.P. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, MD

So, so what is that mechanism? And and that’s another anti-aging of course.

Eric Macdonald

We see that both in the skin cream, as well as the oral, the skin cream, you know, if you’re measuring, you know, the impact on the skin. Yes. It’s the skin cream is got a bigger impact on the skin, but orally those inflammatory cytokine improvements on the oral is probably, I always people, when people say, should I start on the skin, a skin product? Or should I start with the oral? And I said, well, the oral systemic,

Kent Holtorf, MD

I mean, if you’re in LA, do the skin cream, doesn’t matter how you feel, it’s how you look. That’s right.

Eric Macdonald

A lot of people using the combination of the oral as well as the skin cream.

Kent Holtorf, MD

So that’s interesting. I’m just kind of thinking back with the, you know, with the COVID and when that was my first thought, and, but also, you know, of course everything is, you know, lowering that inflammatory cytokine storm with that, have you done any studies or anything with COVID?

Eric Macdonald

No. And we, I know that our federal government is, you know, got their antenna out there loud and clear, you know, with people that are trying to claim their product. We say, COVID, I said, don’t touch it with a 10 foot pole, but a lot of, like, I was telling you, I like that Maria Blasco and Dr. Aviv out of Rutgers, he did a study and I mean, it makes the, the hypothesis makes perfect sense. Okay. It’s not impacting the younger generation, it’s impacting the elderly. What’s the difference between those two telomere length, you know, and when it’s impacting the lungs pulmonary fibrosis, as I mentioned to you, you, you do telomere lengths on pulmonary fibrosis, and God forbid you have a husband and a wife that both are, you know, IPF, they then generate another type of diseases. The name is like this long, and those kids don’t live to be, but maybe three years old, but you look at their telomere, their test results. They’re awful, awful. Pulmonary fibrosis you’re in like the one percentile for telomere length.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. And the nice thing, the type of , you know, with peptides is the TB4-frag huge studies on fibrosis, especially cardiac UL, diabetic nephropathy, and fibrosis and, and breaking down that fibrotic tissue is really interesting. And just another interesting thing that I was reading is that they found out a pathologist found that when he checked the lungs of the code base, they had no thyroid in their lungs. And so they had, it was, you know, one first and trial , but was totally sick. Then they’ll also do gave him a big dose of T3. Boom, just totally reversed it. So interesting stuff.

Eric Macdonald

I think when, when this virus eventually, you know, says bye-bye and the data that we will be able to acquire, I mean, hopefully we don’t have this issue of this magnitude ever again in our lifetime, 

but it is phenomenal when you think about a virus that impacted the whole globe. I mean, you think about national or natural tragedies and occur, hurricanes, Volcanoes. It’s so defined into the area of this is impacting the whole world, especially where you’re at right now. You’re a pretty much a hotspot still, right.

Kent Holtorf, MD

It’s closer to the ground, but it’s like no one should be dying from COVID. I think if someone dies in a hospital, I think it should be a big lawsuit. There’s so many medications. I mean, I gave a talk peptides and STEM cells for COVID-19 , you know basically you know, respiratory failure, dramatic improvement, right? Who’s getting that, just giving glutathione you know, of course, even people on respirators giving vitamin D and 5%, 5% mortality on the vitamin D 50% when they didn’t get it, like, okay, cost 8 cents. You know, and these hospitals are refusing to do it. I think there should be liability there, but it’s like, Hey, we need the vaccine. We need the vaccine.

Eric Macdonald

So here’s something fascinating. African-Americans have longer telomere than Caucasians from Europe. But when you look at COVID, they have a higher death rate to COVID than European Caucasians. And it’s kind of like, okay, well then maybe it’s not a telomere thing. Well, when you think about African-Americans in general, you think about hypertension, their hypertension numbers are off the charts. So now we’re looking at the angiotensin receptor and and that’s basically the pathway for, for COVID is, you know, they, they used to this, the bus driver, you know, so it’s, it’s fascinating. And I think the results that we’re gonna hear you know, when they put the data all together.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. If they do it, honestly, I don’t know. I can’t get started. It’s like,

Eric Macdonald

Oh, I hear ya. I hear ya. And it’s hopeful that the human race will be able to find ways to be able to, you know, I got to find it. I got a funny feeling. This is going to be like flu vaccine or the flu. We’re

going to have

Kent Holtorf, MD

No flu anymore. No colds. Yeah. Everyone’s COVID and show me a study that mass health or lockdowns health that we follow the science. Black helicopters are coming down already.

Eric Macdonald

Well, I would also like to see the results of, you know, the rate of typical mortality, like heart attacks, lung cancer, all the things, the top, top four, do they?

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. Yes, no one’s hit by a bus anymore. It’s COVID.

Eric Macdonald

Well, that’s true.

Kent Holtorf, MD

It’s crazy. And yeah, I think it’s so political basically yeah, people are just,

Eric Macdonald

That’s not going away apparently from what we’re seeing, so

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah, that’s true. But yeah, back to the good stuff. Yeah. the product you guys have been around tried and true and proven and scientifically based and, you know, put your money where your mouth is. And you know, I don’t know any supplement that’s done 10, you know well-done studies where do people purchase this and give advice on how to implement it into your, to a doctor’s practice.

Eric Macdonald

Yeah. We have a whole like marketing, you know, package that we send to our new physician licensees that join us. The obligation to sell it in your practice is just to buy a one-year supply for one person. We provide you all of the, you know, patient brochures, Dr. Brochures. and then I, I even offer my services for like open houses that practices will do where they’ll have like a wine and cheese evening. They bring what they feel are the ideal TA65 patients. And let’s face it. We know that from this price point that we have we’d love to say that everyone can afford it, but, you know, we know that not everyone can, but at least at least five to 10% of an average practice. And in this, in this peptide world, you know, these practices, I would say probably more than 50%, if not more of your practice could be candidates for TA 65.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. And I think people are finally realizing it’s like, we have patients that like, Oh, I don’t want it. And if my insurance doesn’t cover it, I mean, if you want to deal with insurance, you’re gonna get the most minimal care I’ll give you, break your arm or something. Great. You know? But anything other than that, you better be an educated health consumer. Finally, that’s cutting edge. And I’ll just say a quick story, I had terrible Lyme. And I had no immune system. And I had sepsis and I was in ICU and I’m asking the doctors about, you know, IV vitamin C was the only thing shown, reduced mortality and sepsis in the last 40 years. And they never heard of it. And I’m like, what? It’s been in every journal, let alone every ICU journal, you know, the critical care journal. And then, so like the nurses were kind of passive.

Kent Holtorf, MD

And then I finally got this one nurse who was fight. She goes off, I’ll tell him, you know, I’m okay. She comes back big smile and says, he’s gonna do it. He’s going to do it. They won’t even look at the papers. I printed the papers out for him. And it’s just going to do it. I’m like, okay, that’s good. And then about five hours later, she comes a big smile, a little cup with 500 milligrams of vitamin C. I’m like, I go to 7/11 and get a 2,000.

Eric Macdonald

Just give me two oranges will ya.

Kent Holtorf, MD

So it’s scary. But you know, I used to get really mad at the doctors, but they’re also in a system that if they were to say, I do IV vitamin C the hospital [Inaudible] we don’t do that. That’s not what we do, you know? And I have other incidents where at a blown pupil, you know,at dinner and all my girlfriend’s kids like your eyes is so cool. I’m like, what, what are you talking about? And I go look at the bathroom. Like, that is not good. My whole eyes, the pupil, which either stroke, you know, basically. So I go in and they’re like, Oh, okay, well, what’s your family history. I’m like, okay, give me any of these peptides, give me progesterone. And they’re like, Oh that’s interesting. We’ll take the studies. And then you’ll do it with the study. Like, well, we’ll look at the studies. I give them studies. They’re like, I didn’t say we do it. And so I’m calling people, [Inaudible] gonna save my brain, you know? And and it turns out they do MRI CT [Inaudible]. Not that it was a Herxheimer from Lyme and growing up one, pupil was always bigger than the other. So I had Lyme since I was a kid,

Eric Macdonald

Where’d you grow up?

Kent Holtorf, MD

Huntington beach.

Eric Macdonald

Okay.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. So whether, of course, no lyme of course, but yeah, no, but yeah,

Eric Macdonald

No, I mean, prevalence obviously pretty low out there. Okay.

Kent Holtorf, MD

I wouldn’t find it so high. In fact, we had a other person right next to our fountain Valley, a CEO who we diagnosed with Lyme, just very sick and same guy who had the [Inaudible] actually and do them better. And his doctor, his doctor said, there’s no lyme. This is quackery. And he calls just panic. Saying, there’s no way. So the diagnosis is so wrong. I try to explain to them. And then two weeks later his dog gets totally sick and they bring the dog in. The vet goes, he’s got lyme. So I’m like,

Eric Macdonald

So you started going to the vet,

Kent Holtorf, MD

The Seinfeld Kramer. But yeah. So I think this is just, you guys have been ahead of your time and,

you know, quality evidence-based, you know, well,

Eric Macdonald

And it all comes, it all comes down to awareness. So when I’m at any given show and I have the opportunity to spend the time, not this much time, but let’s just say 10 minutes with a physician. The close rate is astronomical. You know, it’s just, they hear what I have to share with them. And they buy the product. We have so many people that every year, you know, I’m ready for my year supply. Do you have any specials going on?

Kent Holtorf, MD

Well, I’ve found is that all of a sudden, I forget to take it. And I’m like, I could feel my telomeres shrinking. It’s like so yeah.

Eric Macdonald

I mean, that’s, that’s like the number one question that people ask is, you know you know, to their doctor, what am I going to feel when I’m on this product? And I, and I kind of say, well, I really wish I knew what it felt like when my telomeres are growing. It’s people have to put it in perspective that that’s really what this product does. It does impact your biomarkers of immunology. And we’ll have a 500 patient study published this year looking at all of our dosage strengths. So I’m in a BID regimen or versus QD. We want to find out where the sweet spot is for, you know, we saw that in the Spain trial. We want to see if that replicates in the United States, but we’re also not looking at telomere in this study. We’re looking at the biomarkers of immunology.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, it made me think too, not feeling anything. It’s kind of like also, you don’t feel your, your arteries are becoming clo

Eric Macdonald

Right? Like blood pressure medication, most people don’t know, you know, and they’ll just make a decision to stop taking their blood pressure medication. I think blood pressure medication is one of the lowest compliant drugs that people take. They fall off because they’re like, Oh, there’s Mark, you know, and lo and behold, you know, they’re coming into the doctor with, you know, 180 over 120, you know?

Kent Holtorf, MD

Yeah. And so I imagined cardiovascular disease, highly associated with telomere length?

Eric Macdonald

Yup. Cardiac tissue. Yeah. And people, people will say, Oh, well I have an average telomere length, but I have severe cardiovascular disease, you know? Well, what does that mean? I said, well, unless we’re doing a biopsy of your cardiac tissue. I mean, what that tells me is that if you’re average and you have terrible, you know, cardiac tissue, then you have other parts of your body systemically, that’s doing much better than it normally would to be able to do it as a biopsy.

Kent Holtorf, MD

Well, if you can answer this, but does it selectively increase the lower telomeres or let’s say when you take there, do you see a change in the percent of short telomeres versus the average burst? Or what do you typically see?

Eric Macdonald

Yes. I mean, it’s kind of, it’s, it’s fascinating how the human body works when telomerase is introduced to somatic tissue or somatic cells, it goes where it should. Yep. So I use the analogy. It’s like a mother that has, you know, a single mother that has five kids and one of them sick, you know, she’s going to attend to that sick child and think of that sick child as being the one with short telomeres. Yeah. It’s fast.

Kent Holtorf, MD

It’s I don’t know. Now I’m thinking of him when I know they’re short term or they’re not. But I think, I think that is awesome. I mean, that right there, I think that’s a great closing piece of information because that’s key.

Eric Macdonald

Yes.

Kent Holtorf, MD

One’s longer. It’s making the shorter ones longer. So,

Eric Macdonald

And I’ll tell you, it’s companies like lifeline that were able to identify that for us, you know, because they do measure not only the mean telomere length, but they also do the critically short or the short percentile life length and they’re out of Spain, so you can reach [email protected].

Kent Holtorf, MD

And so again, cause the doctors do, they set up an account and then

Eric Macdonald

Yeah. They ship ’em kits, you know, and then I’m not sure exactly some companies have it to where you pay 10% for the kit, you know, and then you get, and then when you send it in, that’s when you get charged for it, life length. I’m not sure if they’re on that. That’s my now go, actually what they do is they ship it to a, a, a location just outside of Philadelphia and then it’s a flash frozen. And then every, like every Tuesday they send the batch to Spain and then they try to generally you get the results in two or three weeks and that particular blood work and the analysis that’s done and how they provide you. It’s not just like one sheet this way or telomere length is, I mean, it’s a whole booklet of ways in which to improve, you know, if your results are not that good

Kent Holtorf, MD

Stole mine in my bathroom, which I’m planning to do along with,

Eric Macdonald

But I will tell you and everyone that’s listening. If you’re doing tumor tests annually, you do not want to do a [inaudible] test. If something really is tragic going on in your life, I’ll never be able to do it, or if you’re sick and right now, you also want to make sure, cause your workout schedule is quarterly through your workout exercise. But again, people, people that do strenuous exercise, they need to take a day off and then take their tea. Then do their two number test

Kent Holtorf, MD

Can do a day. You might as well, you know, do better.

Eric Macdonald

I’d also like to you know, offer anyone that’s listening to this that wants to purchase the product. They can call our main office and the office number is (212) 885-5508. And they can put the passcode summit and we’ll offer we’ll provide them a special discount for being listeners of this program. If anyone has any questions or wants to information, you can either go to [email protected] or they can come and email me directly. And my name is Eric [email protected].

Kent Holtorf, MD

We’ll try to get that up and writing. And so with the summit discount will was at 80% off. I think

Eric Macdonald

It would typically be our conference specials that we, that we give to physicians that come to our

conferences, which unfortunately has been kind of dry this year.

Kent Holtorf, MD

It’s been tough, but that’s, I’ve take advantage of you guys at the conferences all the time. Well, awesome. Hey, it was fun. Educational impressive. So thank you so much and you are one of our wonderful sponsors and I suggest you go to the website and take advantage of all the information and the stuff money is great for your patients. So thank you very much. That was great. Thanks so much. Bye bye now.