Feed Your Microbiome

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

My goodness. Thanks guys. I am so excited to talk with you and you know, I’m such a fan of your work and I’m glad this is happening.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Yeah, this is gonna be great. So, how’d you, how’d you get into this work? That’s what I wanted to know. What, why this.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

So, I was in hindsight, a very weird kid and I thought I was normal then, and then hindsight is 2020 was like, yeah, I was strange. So, I was in high school packing, like, bell peppers and, like, raw fruits and vegetables and superfoods and random stuff.

Edward Levitan, MD, ABIOM, IFMCP

Weird

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah. Super weird. I was like 14 years old doing this. Like, that’s very weird. But I didn’t think I remember people saying things but it didn’t faze me and I think I was okay with being different in that way because I was reading research around health and the benefits around food and nutrition science around. It was so exciting for me. So that was me as a teenager and then evolved to me wanting to be formally trained in this stuff. So I went to Southern California University of Health Sciences and got all my doctor training and post doctor training and functional medicine. So I just love this stuff. I guess that’s the point, you know. So I, I guess it was meant to be when I think of like the bell pepper lunch as a kid and I would use my paycheck. I used to work In high school. I worked at the finish line selling shoes at like 16 years old and I used my paycheck to go to the health food store. And spent all my money on the most random, like super food and supplements and bio hacking before bio hacking was the thing. So, I hope that, I think that answers your question. What type of person I am.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Yeah. Did you come from this? I mean, was your family into this or were you the odd, odd person out?

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

I, they were interested in health and wellness, but I made them look like the standard American. So I just like was like far on the spectrum where I would like, they would make fun of me in a nice kind of way. But like, yeah, I was the outlier even amongst people that were interested in health and wellness at that time and still am too like my family is still interested in health and wellness. But I like a little bit further down on the spectrum.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Well, let’s talk about food then. So talk to us about the connection between gut health, brain health and mood and, but just so, you know, I’ve given so many presentations called Food and Mood that I’ve lost count. Like that’s just a great presentation to talk about it.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

It rhymes. There’s so much science around it works on so many levels. Yeah, it’s, I mean, it’s fundamental right? And many people there still divorced from that realization. They think they really, there’s lack of agency, I think for the average person out there that’s not making that connection, that quite pivotal connection between how they feel and the choices they make every day and they think maybe it’s genetics or it’s just their stress levels or it’s their relationship and all of those are factors, right? But there’s only so much things that we actually have influence over. But when you look at the foods that we eat, it’s a major part of how we feel, both from a mood standpoint and energy standpoint, which impacts our mood. So, I mean, it really all begins with how human body is designed, right? I mean, you all know this, but for people that are newer to the this concept and the reality that our gut and brain are formed from the same fetal tissue. And so it begins when babies are growing in their mother’s womb and how that goes. What does that pregnancy look like? And then we get our first round of our microbiome as sort of a epigenetic heirloom from her mom. And we get sort of inoculated with her microbiome and how the baby is born is also c section versus vaginal e impacts that gut garden, which if you think about it, the intestines kind of even resemble the brain and they are inextricably linked physiologically through the gut brain, access the vagus nerve and our gut is for many reasons. Researchers referred to the gut as the second brain and 95% of serotonin is made in the gut and stored in the gut. 50% of dopamine is made in the gut and stored in the gut. So it influences brain health and mood in many different ways. 

A from a nervous system standpoint, that’s certainly true. B also from, just from a microbiome standpoint, there’s many studies that are showing and have certain for the past decade plus in the journals of how microbiome balance influences neurotransmitter synthesis and production. So certain colonies are better than others at producing beneficial metabolites to influence how our mood is. And people that have a lot of dysbiosis bacterial overgrowth, people that have SIBO other forms of dysbiosis people that have even fungal overgrowth. And SIBO we know that these overgrowth can influence cravings, right? And actually influence how the foods that we go to its wielding a lot of influence on how we feel from an emotional standpoint. So the second brain is massively important. The gut is massively important when it comes to our mood and the foods we eat influence that microbiome. So every food we eat is either feeding gut health or gut health problems and some in incremental ways that we don’t really notice it some significantly and cumulatively over time. So it’s a confluence of factors. It’s not just one thing but food and you talk about toxins eloquently as well, food and all of the things that we are consuming in a day, whether it’s from food or on our skin, etcetera, the air, we breathe even. How is that influencing our microbiome and that is massively influential on our mood and emotions.

Edward Levitan, MD, ABIOM, IFMCP

Yeah. No, I think it’s kind of funny because as you mentioned, like everybody thinks, oh got microbiome, we’re just discovering it now and it’s been around, we’ve known about it, we’ve known about the serotonin dopamine and it’s just now come to the forefront.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

And so let’s drill into this then. So in any given day. So what I’d like to do for the moment is set aside, I don’t know if we can, but set aside the impact of the thoughts we have the sleep we did or didn’t have the relationships were having and stress if we could set those to the side for a minute because we, I don’t know, we can’t, but because those are their own type of microbiome and toxin influencers. But if we set that to the side, do our best and we focus solely on food for the moment, even separating, you know, don’t eat while you’re stressed, don’t eat while you’re running around, chew your food. Put those to the side. What are ways that people can really drill into. What am I doing that is either helping or harming me? Can we get into that? Like really at, at and because there’s people from all over places on the spectrum who are listening. So I’d like to make sure we give them like, what’s the next step?

Edward Levitan, MD, ABIOM, IFMCP

The one thing caveat is I like how you said helping or harming or foods that serve you and not, or don’t serve you as opposed to good foods or bad foods because we don’t want, it’s not a moral judgment. It’s really, there’s no confessional here. It’s just what is actually going to serve you for a long, healthy, vibrant life.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah. So you’re talking about like, what would people do just when you’re looking at food itself? Is that where you want to start?

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

I would like to, it’s really basic but, but for example, if you can put things in categories and these categories of foods or foods that increase the chance of dysbiosis of these are foods that are, that raise the probability and these are foods that lower the probability, just put it into.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

100%. I love that. And I agree with you too as far as the moral judgment of it. And like this conversation around toxic diet culture and diet culture and anti diet culture and body positivity. And there’s no such thing as a bad food. Like to me, I really say it like this continuing to eat foods that don’t love you back. It’s like staying in a toxic relationship and wondering why you’re still miserable. But avoiding foods that don’t love you back isn’t restrictive. It’s self respect and it’s that paradigm shift that I think is important for people because there’s just so much like tribalism and wars when it comes to, especially in social media around this. And in part, it’s because of diet culture, right. It’s been shoved down our throats for so long and it’s about weight loss and shaming people and all about how people look and that isn’t good. And there’s a lot of the rebound effect is like this complete opposite. 

That absolves all logic when it comes to foods and there are foods that don’t love the average human back and that and avoiding that isn’t diet culture. It’s awareness that these foods just don’t work with human physiology, some in bigger ways than others. Some people have more resilience and can handle some of these. Some people don’t have much resilience at all when it comes to these foods and it’s okay to talk about that. It’s not a moral judgment. It’s just what’s the interplay between those foods and our physiology, our microbiome, our inflammation levels, our energy levels, etcetera. So the human body is alive because of brilliant biochemistry and the foods we eat influence that biochemistry and by the microbiome is a major part of that. So what I would call the inflammatory core for are the four foods or food additives ingredients that can’t even really call them foods. Their ingredients in foods that are most likely to disrupt the human microbiome, to feed dis biosystems to increase things like intestinal permeability, like leaky gut syndrome and drive systemic inflammation. So number one would be industrial seed oils, things like canola oil, vegetable oil, soybean oil, you can get better versions of those. You can get organic versions of those. But the problem isn’t the oils by themselves per se. You can make an argument about that, but it’s really about the modern American diet and its balance of Omega 36 and nine more than anything else is that we’re already coming in eating out of alignment with human biochemistry. 

And that’s maybe the preface of all of these things are going to be talking about is what researchers refer to as an evolutionary mismatch, epigenetic genetic mismatch that our microbiome which is symbiotically evolved with the human species is living in a brave new world, just like our genome is living in a brave new world that the foods we eat are out of alignment because our genetics haven’t changed in 10,000 plus years. But yet our world has changed so much in such a dramatically, dramatically, finite period of time when you’re putting that in context with the totality of human history, which I know you all talk so much about. So the when you’re looking at industrial seed oils, it’s the processing at. Yes, it’s not in its whole food form. Yes, but it’s also high Omega six. And the modern American diets already high in Omega six. So it’s just perpetuating that imbalance of Omega 36 and nine, which we need all of these probably unsaturated fatty acids, but we just need a proper balance to be more in alignment to decrease that chasm between epa genetics or the world around us and the foods we eat and our D N A. So, and that will bring homeostasis in the body that will balance inflammation levels, that will balance the gut etcetera. So that’s the conversation and industrial seed oils. Number two would be added sugar which most people listening to this or watching this will know sugar is a problem 

That’s not really controversy, but it’s even the nice sounding prettier sounding better marketed euphemisms for sugar, right? That, that sound a lot better when the things like agave nectar where it sounds so natural, like they’re just like breaking the agave, squeezing it into the cup and disturbing it up and it’s so organic. The reality is it’s still processed and still high in fructose. And the modern American diet is already high in fructose and sugar. So it’s just contributing to the sugar already higher sugar diet. If it was just the random drink with a little bit of a gaby, it’s no big deal. It’s the sheer amount of fructose consumption that the modern American is having so be mindful of the grams of added sugar you’re having in the day no matter what the source, even if it’s quote unquote more natural and third would be gluten containing grains. So that’s a big conversation about, is it the gluten or is it, what we’ve done to the gluten? Is it the hybridization or genetic modification? Is that the life to say that it’s a complicated conversation? It’s all of the above, right. But in part, I mean, from an evolutionary standpoint, humans, eight grains largely prepared a certain way, soaked and sprouted. It wasn’t genetically modified hybrid ice, but it also was a food that stored well during famine. Now, we’re like feasting on famine food year round. And on top of that, what we’ve done to the grain as far as the growing and then what we put on the grain.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Wait, wait, wait. Will, I have to jump in here because you, you’ve literally just touched on my passion play, which is zonulin and gluten and leaky gut. And yeah, I’m a total celiac and I’m also someone who’s been following Alessio Fasano for years. Like we used to joke about him being my boyfriend and I’ve said this to him in person. So it’s not like it’s behind my husband’s back or anything like, yeah, you know, I’m a total, total groupie. So you know what you didn’t, you did gloss over here is that 40% of us, including me. I’ve got two copies have at least one copy of a gene that makes you more sensitive to gluten. And what happens is if you have that gene and you eat gluten, you have elevated numbers of receptors, their terrible name. It’s called C X C R three. When you eat the gluten, it binds it, that increases the production of something called Zahn Wellens, which tells your tight junctions in your gut to open your tight junctions are keeping the out outside world from your inside world. And you open those for four hours every time you eat gluten that someone like Ed, he’s got much better genes than me. When he eats gluten, he opens his tight junctions for like 15 minutes because he doesn’t have the gene. But I’ve got the gene. So I’m opening for hours on end. So basically, what’s that? I can’t do 40% of people as well. Four out of 10. So it’s pretty statistically possible that if you react to gluten, you have a gene and you’re opening up your system. So I just had to comment on that.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Because we’re, we’re like genetic twins in that way. So I have different methylation gene snips as well. Like gluten does not love me back. And that’s okay to say that, right? It’s not diet culture and there are better versions of gluten, right? I don’t know. I mean, everybody’s different but I like when you look at sour dough bread or ancient grains that you can have better for you versions where someone with the R gene variants, I would not recommend them having it. But you are like there, it’s a spectrum, right? It’s like gluten sensitivity spectrum and there are people that when they deal with other things, like I deal a lot with people that have chronic lyme or people that have mold toxicity. That when we empty that bucket significantly, then they can maybe reintroduce some of these better for you versions of gluten containing grains in moderation and be fine if they enjoy it. Look, we’ll see what, how resilient we can get your body and the body is amazingly resilient even with these gene variants.

Edward Levitan, MD, ABIOM, IFMCP

Or don’t forget, you can also go to Europe, which a lot of people tolerate gluten in Europe and can’t do anything here.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

So exactly, the wiggle room that I see from my patients that either live in Europe or go in on holiday there or, you know, work trips. And then I think, okay, I know the fact of like the better quality of Grain 100%. But then I think how much of it is also the stress component when you’re on vacation, right. And it’s like you’re supportive of the parasympathetic. Your body is a little bit more resilient when you’re eating in a better, you know, so it’s probably such a combination of things, right. So, and then the last would be conventional dairy, you know, dairy, there are better versions of dairy. Certainly it can be a great food for some people, especially the better versions of it. But for the sake of simplicity, dairy can be reactive to a big percentage of people in the United states upon a spectrum, right? It’s not one size fits all, but looking for better versions, either fermented dairy like coffers or yogurts or these type of cheeses can be better, more digested because the casing is kind of broken down a little bit, right. It’s a little bit more digestible but and also the grass fed aspect of it, what that cow cow is eating and then the subtype debate today to Casey. And so I, I find the patients that do the A two milks, the A two cheeses tend to be better because it’s decreasing. That epigenetic genetic mismatch for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, humans would have consumed a to dairy sources. Now, most of the cows of people are consuming the dairy that they’re consuming from. The cows are beta A one. So that’s something to think about. But then, you know, there’s goat, goat sources and sheep sources and camel sources of dairy that I also find to be a little bit more agreeable to the average person who really, really loves their dairy. And we have to find a better version for them.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Do you know how expensive camel milk is?

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

I’ve never bought it myself, but I can imagine. I haven’t looked at the price I could, I mean, look, we need more camel farms in the world. Apparently.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

I this is our new business venture. There’s finally an down in Philadelphia. Tell me something. How would people know if they’re eating a two versus a one.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah. Well, brands want you to know it because they’ll charge a little bit more for it. And, you know, and I’m sure the quality costs are high across the board to raise this type of dairy in the United States. So it is typically marketed but certain types of cows tend to have higher percentages of A two as well. So if you go to New Zealand, some African species, Ireland, they tend to have these cows that are more predominant in the A two. But if you go to the health food store, you’re going to see a two milk for a reason because they’re really a letting you know that they are in this better version, this more agreeable to the human microbiome and human immune system that debate a tune. So people just need to ask at the health food store, ask at the health food store, do research of the brands. Even if it’s, I mean, it’s gonna be on the label. It’s gonna be on the box most of the time because they want you to know. But if not, then if it’s like a farmer’s market or if you’re going to a local farmer, you just have to ask what type of cows they have and do some research on the cows that tend to have the A two. But most of the time it’s on, it’s going to be on the box or label in some degree.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Okay. So a two is good for you.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

A two is better for you but that exists on the spectrum to like I have some patients that have a two milk say two cheeses and they still have reactions to it. So it’s less problematic but still it’s not all, it’s not one size fits all even with that better for you version.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Alright. So we’ve talked about the things the bucket of four things that you would say pro inflammatory anti microbiome health. What are the, what’s the bucket that really sources microbiome diversity and health?

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Air ice cubes. I’m just joking. I’m just joking. So the one thing I it’s core for it doesn’t rhyme. So I don’t want to add 1/5 but when I wrote the inflammation spectrum, I had a sidebar to have like plus one and I was actually I was plus one maybe. But I want to say and then we can jump into good stuff. Is alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, alcohol because it is a, it’s not a food, but people consider it a food. And I would just say that is a massive detriment to people’s gut health and increases intestinal permeability. It’s a neurotoxin. It really whole host of reasons that I would look at that because the reason why I bring it up is that many people that are health conscious, we’ll still keep that in and then they realize they don’t wonder why they still have brain fog and fatigue and they can’t lose weight and have digestive problems. So, just look at alcohol implication just because it may be organic and better for you. Your regular consumption of it. For some people, it could be a problem to keep them stuck at a plateau. So I just want to talk about that. I’m not gonna be a teetotaler puritanical person, but I’m just saying that’s something to think about.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Well, it’s not moral, but you also won’t detox if you’re drinking alcohol because you have a much bigger toxin to deal with. Which is,

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah, totally.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

And the sugar in the wine and the glyphosate in the non organic wine. I mean, I think it’s a huge potential.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah. Right. You’re right. Absolutely. The additives that are allowed in domestic wine is like insane and then not even, they don’t have to put it on the label. The amount of stuff anyways, the good stuff that people can have, it depends on who you talk to. Right. You’re gonna have debates and all these things. But let’s talk about, let’s look at the macronutrients. If our body is alive because of biochemistry and the foods we eat, influence the expression of our biochemistry. Then look at proteins, fats and carbs and the most nutrient dense bio available sources. And there’s a lot of bio individuality about which proteins, fats and carbs work best for you. What proteins, fats and carbs love you back and there’s a lot of nuance here and even healthy foods, what works for one person may not be the best for you at this point in your health journey. So everything I’m gonna say has a caveat and this is what I do for a living. So it’s like, yeah, I could tell you a patient where that, that food doesn’t love them back so much. So that’s where labs, health history, experimentation and bio individuality taking that into consideration come into play. 

But you know, I think most people would agree. Maybe not a few carnival people. Paul Saladino would be agree that fruits and vegetables are fantastic. If you have digestive problems, I would say cooking down the vegetables, having them more soft soups and stews work wonderfully pureeing the vegetables if you’re extra, extra sensitive. But using over time rehabilitating your gut gaining resilience, you could have the salad and not having a flare up from a salad. That’s a problem. That’s not the salads fault. That’s your gut that needs some TLC. But fruits, I have patients even cooked down fruits sometimes into sort of a compote where we really do soft cooked foods for a while, for people to have more reactive digestive issues, more food sensitivities, things like histamine intolerance and mast cell activation syndrome. But not everybody has to go to those great lengths to make it more digestible. So look at fruits and vegetables because the fiber and the polyphenols are really helpful at really supporting microbiome diversity, which is a good thing for those people write for its associated with this long healthy lives and healthy fats, things like wild caught fish, grass, fed beef, avocados, olives, extra virgin olive oil can be wonderful. 

And some of those obviously the protein content of that and then really dialing in protein optimization throughout the day and not all protein is created equally. I mean, there are essential amino acids and people, there’s a lot of, I think confusion around protein because the protein grams are thrown out so much. But they don’t actually look at the amount of essential amino acids that we need to get throughout the day to thrive, to feel great from an energy standpoint, but muscle building standpoint recovery standpoint. So something that we do for patients expect, you know, for some cases, more than others is really dialing in protein optimization throughout the day. And you know, that could be grass fed beef, wild caught fish, a lot of non place and non plant based versions of it and sources of protein. And then many plant based sources of protein too. If your body tolerates it depending on how plant based they are. We have patients that are completely vegan and they want to be for different ethical religious reasons. And we want to make the best thoughtful, most nutrient dense, well formulated vegan vegetarian protocol there is. So I that’s sort of the science and art, of what I do in functional medicine is I have to take the labs and health history and their goals. But then what do they enjoy? What will they eat consistently? Because if there’s a lot of stress and anxiety around the food, even if it makes sense clinically, that stress and anxiety around food is going to create a completely different result around as far as us achieving their goals. So those are some foods that we bring in.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

I’d love to actually talk about the impact of stress on digestion and how stress acts to impair digestion, impair absorption. And where do you fall on that?

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Well, yeah, I mean, it’s, and that’s sort of, I call them metaphysical meals to my patients in the books. It’s like you could be eating the best food under, under the sun. But if you’re serving yourself a big slice of stress every day, a big slice of shame every day or unresolved trauma every day, that’s junk food for your body just as much as a food that’s gonna raise inflammation levels up. So it’s very important, but it’s a lot more nebulous, right? It’s a lot more, it’s difficult to say, well, don’t stress, it’s easy to be prescriptive with food, right. These foods are more likely to disrupt your microbiome in raise inflammation. Avoid those. Yeah, that could be kind of difficult. But it’s a lot more of a complex conversation to have around shame and stress and unresolved trauma, but they’re important. And I see reintroduction of food happens so much more unimpeded. Lee whenever we deal with the mind body component, I see food sensitivities reversed whenever we deal with the mind body component. So it’s massively influential this headspace. And that’s how I say it like you can’t, what are you feeding your body? But what, what are you also feeding your head and your heart as well? Because those things matter cumulatively over time. But to unpack, that is a lot more in depth.

Edward Levitan, MD, ABIOM, IFMCP

So how do you actually is there? Does the body actually manifest trauma or how does that work?

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah, it does. Yeah. So if you look at different theories out there in the mechanisms of how it works, but polly vagal theories, I think a good place to start about that. There’s different stages of somebody’s nervous system and the gut brain axis is a major part of that, right? And the autonomic nervous system and the Vegas is really, hence the term policy vagal. It’s the Vegas translates as the wandering or the wanderer. It’s the longest nerve in the body really is what innovates the brain and the gut and goes into every organ. And it’s the main regulator of our parasympathetic, the resting digesting system. So it’s a massive part of that. So when people have unresolved trauma and that’s a big topic to write, what is trauma and what does that look like. I mean, one of the things we have patients fill out when we’re having their initial telehealth consult is an ace score, an adverse childhood experience score. That’s just the beginning. Then it’s like what happened after that and really understanding the nuance and what, what was cumulatively there in their life as far as trauma and stress and their relationships in their life and how that impacts their body. But now we know it doesn’t just impact their health. But then when you look at the researcher on intergenerational trauma and how things can impact generations to come of how different methylation genes are expressed. People that are prone to this hypervigilance and prone to sort of this sort of O C D sometimes as propensity For auto immunity and metabolic syndrome and type two diabetes. 

All of these things are being researched as I’m coming into this world, didn’t even make the decision that how they were born matters, right? The pregnancy of when they were in Utero, but also generations back which can seem like, wow, I’m screwed. What am I supposed to do with all of this? But the reality is the human body is amazingly resilient and as trauma can be inherited so can healing. And I see patients up against them seemingly just insurmountable things go to the other side of what seemingly seems impossible and really in my mind, they are healing not just themselves but their children’s Children and generations they’ll never get to see because of what they’re breaking those ancestral chains of trauma and pain and shame and disease. So it’s, it is. Yes, it’s a factor. Yes, it’s something we have to look at to truly heal, but it’s not insurmountable. This should be a message of hope for people that are hearing this. 

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

So many ways that people can heal and it sounds like we also have a me a piggy on, on the on the summit. So people will be able to listen to her talking about trauma specifically and ways to interrupt that. But where when you’re looking at stress and food setting trauma to the side for a moment, are there tips and techniques that you recommend people take on to minimize their experience of stress during eating?

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah, definitely. So the concept that we teach to patients is using food as a medicine and a meditation. So it’s really practicing mindful eating and really doing what you can to this isn’t always possible. I don’t want people to be dogmatic obsessive about it. Then they stress about not stressing and they stress about creating the perfect environment. They become super legalistic about it, don’t do that. But there should be a grace and lightness to all of this and ask yourself, is there a grace and ease to this? And if there’s things you can do to change or to leave or sometimes accept the situation, pick one of those things. Do I need to accept change or leave? If something is not light, if something is not gray, because we need to start making these conscious decisions and more of a mindful conscious awareness around our life itself. But food is a major part of that because most people, most of us are eating three times a day, at least what is the environment in which we’re, we’re eating. 

So sit down whenever you can to chew mindfully take in, you know what Eckhart Tolle calls present moment awareness. Even when you’re eating food really taking in because that breath awareness, inner body awareness, food awareness like taking in the present moment is supportive of the parasympathetic, is supportive of vagal tone, right? It’s it’s improving vagal tone when somebody constantly, you know, on fight or flight mode stressed, looking at the phone, whether eating, chewing, eating really quick, standing up and going on to the next thing that’s not supportive of vagal tone that’s really supportive of the perpetuation of that sympathetic overtone, which is already hyperactive in most people. Most people are all to varying degrees stuck in that sympathetic fight or flight stress state, which is not going to be great from a digestive standpoint. And it’s not gonna be great for digestion and absorption. And people have to realize we aren’t just what we eat, we are what we absorb. We are we assimilate, we are we metabolize and most people have to varying degrees, dysfunctional digestive systems that impair what we can get out of the good food, you know, and really nourish ourselves. 

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Yeah. It’s interesting that, you know, it’s just thinking about because this is the environmental toxicants, autoimmune and Chronic Diseases Summit that, that link to absorption and gut permeability is critical because I’m not sure that everyone’s making the link. Like, why are we talking about food? Well, it’s, it’s, it’s foundational. A but b when you’re looking at resolving and reversing auto immunity and chronic diseases, if you’re in a state of fight flight or freeze and you’re not in a parasympathetic rest relaxation, you’re not gonna be absorbing, you won’t be detoxing, you won’t be healing. So we really want to tilt the scales on a consistent basis towards parasympathetic instead of instead of jacking you up.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah. And it’s cumulatively right. It’s like people, maybe people do it once and then they won’t maybe give it the credibility that it needs. But it’s like going to the gym once and saying, well, it didn’t work for me. It’s going to take consistency to really say, how am I going to create a sacred space around my meal time whenever I can? And then if the random time where you are eating on the go, it’s not gonna matter as much because your consistency is there for most of the time. And that’s gonna be really restorative to repairing your system, your nervous system repairing your endocrine system and repairing, repairing your digestive system.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

We always joke in our house because I took on about eight months ago, chewing my food at least 25 times per mouthful. And I keep saying, do you know how long it takes if you are chewing your food 25 times? I’m always the last one at the dinner table. Like they’re like moving on. I’m like, no, I’m still chewing. You can’t leave the table. I’m still chewing. Impacted my experience because I’m not looking to rush through my meal. I’m looking to have an experience at my meal and the chewing accused me to slow down.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah. It’s an anchor in the present moment. Yeah. It’s a great tool is mindful chewing. Right? And the family, the family is like, yes, we get it. But the more of us should do it where it’s less odd. Right. It’s less odd if everybody’s doing it together.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

I’m odd for now. Maybe you’ll take it on, you know.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

So you’re, you’re like a solid 22 tour. It’s like,

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

It’s like 3 to 4. And then they say, well, you know, I’m like, how did you finish that so fast? I’m on my fourth fight. And you’re done. I don’t get it. So you talk about food piece. Can you talk a little about that?

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah. It’s, to me it’s the, the antidote to the food tribalism. I think that goes on. Right. It’s like this, all this vegan vegetarian, carnivore, keto, whatever diet, culture versus anti diet culture. Like the world is filled with so much discord and wars of all types and tribalism and keyboard warriors. They’d never say things to your face, but they say it on Twitter. The reality is we need less of that because there’s a lot of people, there’s a sea of people that are really, really confused. They’re having reactions from foods. They have, I mean, the statistics speak for themselves. I mean, some 50, some percent if not more have massive insulin resistance issues. I mean, really slight studies of 80, of some blood sugar problems in the United States. 2 50 million Americans have an autoimmune disease. The amount of people that have anxiety and depression and fatigue. I mean, this is broad swaths of our population and food plays a major role for all those people. So then to create all this food confusion and diet wars, it really is. People don’t know what to believe and they could substantiate anything at the click of the button with when it comes to this, this noise and this, I don’t want to call it misinformation because they’re well intentioned people and that’s what what’s worked for them. 

And that’s where the losing the art of bio individuality and having different thoughts without saying this is the only way and anything that doesn’t fall into my little box is problematic because there’s so much nuance and context and spectrums to consider when it comes to something like human health. So that’s what I mean about food piece. It’s for my patients and anybody that listens to the podcast that reads the books, I talk about these concepts because it really is, what is your, be your own end of one experiment? Which is your body love and which is your body hate. And that way it’s like all the noise out there. It’s like tertiary. It’s like you hear it, you can listen to it but it doesn’t rattle you because you have food, peace and you know what loves you back. So that’s what, what food piece is all about. It’s to me a third way to go into nutrition. It’s not diet culture, anti diet culture. It is eating foods that love you back and having awareness and it’s sort of a mindfulness around there. Yeah. There are some foods that don’t love you back and you’ll be more, it’s not like I can’t have those foods because you’re using food as a medicine and a meditation. You’re able to eat mindfully and say, oh, that food didn’t make me feel so well. Do you remember that consciously for next time? And it’s not avoiding that isn’t restrictive. It’s just no, I like feeling better great more than I thought I wanted that food that didn’t love me back. Or you may choose to have that food that didn’t love you back. But you’re probably gonna have a little bit less of it because you are being conscious around it and maybe it was the socialization and you’re out with your friends and you would normally have it. You’re gonna have some of it, but you’re, you have an awareness to not have unhealthy boundaries with something that doesn’t love you back. And I think part of food piece is really talking, extending this conversation around boundaries. We talk about boundaries and a lot in our culture right now when it comes to relationships, I think it should apply to foods that don’t love us back as well.

Edward Levitan, MD, ABIOM, IFMCP

The thing I’m thinking about is everybody does have their own food that they, that’s right for them and treats them well and other foods that doesn’t. And I love the not being dogmatic about it because I know for myself, I think a lot of our patients also, it changes Like sometimes some years you’re gonna want to be, have more meat. Other years you’re gonna want to stand more vegetarian and that’s how your body is. So really having that fluidity, that ability to dance with the food you’re eating and not being dogmatic about it, I think is definitely the approach take,

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Yeah, 100% agree with you. And even from an ancestral standpoint, you think of like seasonal eating, that can look more even to use that example of more on the war, more meat based, more plant based, that’s something that humans would have done for a long time, you know, depending on who you’re talking about. But, yeah, it’s, that’s even if you look at the hot tribe in Tanzania, that’s a good example. There are seasons where there having more plant based and more, the more meat based and they have some of the best microbiome on a planet, these tribal microbiome. So that’s okay. And they don’t identify as being vegan or carnivore. It’s just they’re eating mindfully. Yeah. What’s there? Right. Yeah, exactly.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

This is awesome. Well, I’m so happy that you’ve joined us for the summit.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Thank you so much for having me. 

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Talk to me about where people can find you.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Everything is that DrWillCole.com. That’s D R W I L L C O L E dot com. But yeah, the links to the telehealth clinics there and the books and podcasts, all the stuff.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Everything Dr. Will.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

All things me. I never shut up. But you know, whatever.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

This has been really great because these are, you’ve given category the food that don’t support the microbiome. You’ve given categories of food that you’ve given a thoughtful approach to eating in ways that can increase microbiome diversity by improving absorption. So there’s a lot of things that you’ve given to people.

Edward Levitan, MD, ABIOM, IFMCP

Not just about trauma and taking care of trauma and taking care of how important it’s not just about food, it’s really the whole package.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

It is, it is your package. Hey, it’s like when you spend all, you know, you guys do this, but when you like spend your day looking at the nuances that make somebody better, you have to kind of realize that you can’t put people in the box because there’s so much, so much complexity that gives rise to people’s health issues.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Yeah. And I think that’s a beautiful thing to sort of end on is trust yourself and work with the provider and you will improve so well. Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Environmental Toxicants, Auto Immunity and Chronic Diseases Summit. We’re really grateful to have had you on today.

Will Cole, DNM, IFMCP, DC

Thank you.

Wendie Trubow, MD, MBA, IFMCP

Thank you.