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Kent Holtorf, MD is the medical director of the Holtorf Medical Group (www.HoltorfMed.com) and the founder and medical director of the non-profit National Academy of Hypothyroidism (NAH) (www.NAHypothyroidism.org), which is dedicated to the dissemination of new information to doctors and patients on the diagnosis and treatment of hypothyroidism. He is... Read More
Dr. Gordon Crozier is a leading medical practitioner, researcher, and lecturer in areas of integrative and functional medicine as it relates to cellular therapy. At his practice, The Crozier Clinic, in Orlando, Florida, he is a pioneer in the research and application of peptide therapy, a revolutionary treatment that stimulates... Read More
Dr. Gordon Crozier is genetics-based medicine expert and recognized leader in both the research and application of integrative medicine. He is the Medical Director of Crozier Clinic in Orlando, Florida and a nationally recognized author, speaker, instructor and has made numerous televised appearances. Dr. Crozier examines patients at a cellular level to find their root cause of illness and develops a personalized approach to recovery when all other options have failed. Join Dr. Crozier as he discusses his favorite peptides and other therapies that he uses to treat the toughest patients.
Related Topics
Antibodies To Brain And Pituitary, Autism, Autoimmune Diseases, Autoimmunity, Bpc157, Cancer Patients, Cellular Regrowth, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Immune Modulation, Lyme And Cirs, Muscle And Tendon Recovery, Natural Killer Cells, Peptide Therapy, Peptides, Thymosin Alpha OneKent Holtorf, M.D.
Hello, this is Dr. Kent Holtorf with another episode of the peptide summit. Today we welcome Dr. Gordon Crozier. He’s a big deal. We’ve had a lot of great people that have knowledge, but he’s a leading medical practitioner, researcher and lecturer in areas of integrative and functional medicine, as it relates to cellular therapy. People come from all over the world to see him. His knowledge base is truly incredible. His lectures just blow people away. So we’re very happy to have you. Thanks for being on. I’ll finish your bio, but we really appreciate you taking the time.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Thank you. It’s good to be here.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Great. And he looks great too, At his practice, I think he treats the sick of the sick, bring it on type clinic in Orlando, Florida. He’s a pioneer in the research and application of peptide therapy, a revolutionary therapy that stimulates cellular regrowth and systems. He’s recognized as the country’s leading authority in emerging treatments. He’s highly sought after nationally and internationally and a highly sought after speaker. He’s a best-selling author. He’s been featured on national TV, radio, journals and medical publications. So as I said, we’re so happy to have him. And he’s going to talk today about inside secrets revealed with actual patient case studies. So we’re going to hear about true studies and what he did to get these patients better. And I imagine you’re not the first stop for anyone, that they’ve been to many doctors.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Most of my clientele, most of my patients, have been around the block. They’ve been to all the big name hospitals and research centers and really had minimal results to no results. And some of them have been to 22 plus physicians in the past, including, some of them, integrative medicines in the past, and they just can’t get well. So I like the challenge, I guess because you know, it’s all about cellular health, as you were saying, it’s all about the cell and how to repair the cell so you can help and heal the whole organ systems. So that’s how I like to find what’s actually triggering what
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It sounds like you’re really the House type medical doctor, a medical detective. And I know it really takes passion and you’re tired. You go home I’m sure you’re hitting the research. I got to find out how I can help this woman. I think it’s awesome. And that’s what being a doctor is. It’s not what it is now. Being a doctor now is an algorhythm, but I just love the fact that you do that and you’ve been doing it a long time, just a great knowledge and so generous and sharing all your knowledge. So again, thank you. Do you have any favorite peptides?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Oh, wow. I have a lot of favorite peptides, I use a lot of peptides a lot. Probably my favorite of all time is thymosin alpha one. I use it so routinely on myself and so many different patients and I love what it does. And especially right now, when we’re worried about our immune systems and all that, it really helps to modulate that immune system. So it won’t overdrive it.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Can you talk a little more about the mechanism, how it works compared to the other thymosins or
Gordon Crozier, DO
So thymosin alpha one actually is a modulator and it helps to balance the TH1 and TH2 pathways, because you need some inflammation in your immune system, but you don’t want it overdriven so that you actually will drive it into an autoimmune response. So that’s why thymosin alpha one will work a lot of times with people with autoimmune diseases, which I use a ton of it in autoimmune diseases, because it helps dampen down that overdriven immune system. So it actually helps with every aspect of the immune systems and your natural killer cells. It’ll modulate them and it modulates them, it doesn’t overdrive the natural killer cells. It just modulates them so that they will work correctly. I love it because it works so perfectly and I’ve used it, they’ve actually been out of it several times recently because I think everybody’s using it now. That’s really helped a lot with my cancer patients. I get referrals from some of the cancer centers here in Florida for people that are undergoing chemotherapy, that these doctors know that they’re exposed. And so I add thymosin alpha one in to that, and they don’t end up with pneumonias and other diseases because of their chemotherapy,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I’ll make a disclaimer. We’re not saying it treats cancer.
Gordon Crozier, DO
No, it doesn’t treat cancer.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
But it’s approved for cancer in other countries, but we’re not saying it treats it, but it’s interesting when you look at cancer relapse, it’s basically the level of your natural killer cell function is going to determine your relapse level. So chemo destroys your immunity and then they do nothing about it. And the nice thing is this will boost it, but people thing I’ve got autoimmune, I don’t want to boost my immunity. They think it’s all or none, but it’s kind of like a teeter-totter right. And so boost the good immunity and lowers that inflammation and that auto-immunity. So that’s great. There have been tons of studies on it.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. There’s tons of studies on it. It’s been studied in over 70 countries and that’s why the cancer doctors around where I live here, even from the other coast, refer patients because they –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
They do? Oncologists, you try to give them anything and they go, don’t touch my patient.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, I’m not going to without their approval. And I never do. We always talk beforehand.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
They’ll blame it.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So they always talk to me beforehand. They’d say I’m sending so-and-so patient, they had stem cell transplant for whatever disease, leukemia, multiple myeloma or something that. They said, we know you can help with some of these things and boost them and help them. And we would like you to do that, just let me know what you think. And then I would call them back after I evaluate them. And I said, I think that these modalities, including thymosin alpha one would be good. A lot of them never heard of thymosin alpha one before.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Am I dreaming? They are actually oncologists who will call and say, Oh, can you see my patient? You say no. And you can send, at least my experience is they never want to read a study. They don’t care. They look at the algorithm and it’s weird to me is that they don’t even test what chemo or whatever is the cancer most sensitive, they just give their recipe. and then if I’ll give the patient here’s some studies and they say no, he wouldn’t read them, just don’t do it.
Gordon Crozier, DO
They won’t read them, I’ll give them to them, but they just want me to give them the gist of what they say. So it’s up to us.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s a step forward. Yeah. That’s good. What other ones do you like? What other peptides do you use a lot of?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, I use a ton of BPC157. I use it both orally and injection because I see athletes too. I lift weights, so I’m in the gym a lot. And so I have all the gym rats.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
What is that? A gym? I’ve heard of that?
Gordon Crozier, DO
The gym rats?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I think I saw one a couple of years ago.
Gordon Crozier, DO
I like to work out, so that’s kind of one of my things, that’s my release. And so I use a lot of BPC157 for a lot of these people that are strained, muscle strain, tendons it really helps them to recover from a lot of those things. and I love it because it works for that.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I think it’s a double edged sword because all these bodybuilders and things, they’re way ahead of the curve in terms of their knowledge versus doctors. They know so much and they use it. So, unfortunately it can get thrown in with, Oh, it’s for bodybuilders and it just helps recovery but it also boosts mitochondrial function, other things too. Unfortunately they find out what, what works and then everybody goes, Oh, it’s a bodybuilder thing, you know? Or that’s what someone’s doctor will say,
Gordon Crozier, DO
What somebody else will say, right?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. But that’s awesome. And the kind of cases you see everything from neurologic to hormonal, Lyme, CIRS
Gordon Crozier, DO
Lyme and CIRS probably is 80% of my practice, Lyme and CIRS because every single Lyme and CIRS patient, they all end up with some type of autoimmune disease, so they all have some autoimmunity,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I just love that because I’ve given lectures on that. And they’re basically all shown to have antibodies to the brain, pituitary antibodies, hypothalamic antibodies, but you need either a special test when it’s the brain, or there is no test for the ones to the hypothalamus and pituitary, only in research. And they’ll go to the rheumatologist and get a diagnosis because they’ll have a bunch of different antibodies, autoimmune antibodies and that’s where they come and go and they’ll get diagnosed with mixed connective tissue disease, meaning it’s autoimmune, but we don’t know what it is. Or, anti-fossil lipid syndrome. They say you’re gonna have it for life. I’m like, no you won’t. And these titers just go up and down and it goes along with it and we’ve kind of changed, and it sounds like you have too.
I started because I had Lyme and I want to know why you got into this, but I did antibiotics, just massive antibiotics and it didn’t work because my natural killer cell function was, like, one and there was no immunity to kill it. So it doesn’t matter how much antibiotics you give. We’ve become really an immune modulatory center. And all the labs you do that on chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, Lyme, Alzheimer’s, Autism and everyone’s immune system is thrashed. You have toxins, the CIRS, it’s bad. Kind of going a little backwards, but initially what got you into this crazy medicine?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, it was really my own story and what happened to me, and I didn’t realize it until I was – I was clinical faculty at the University of Kentucky and I got sick. I had undulating health ever since I was in the second grade. In the second grade, this is back before anybody knew about Lyme disease, I was bit by a tick in Minnesota, which is one of the hotbeds, and I suddenly couldn’t read. So I had to be taught how to relearn how to read. I went from the top of my class to the bottom being called a retard by everybody in my class, because you could actually do that back then.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And how old were you?
Gordon Crozier, DO
I was in second grade, so I was about seven, eight years old
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And they, of course, said okay, why would you all of a sudden regress?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right? Why would you regress? Well, nobody tried to figure it out.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Okay. Yeah. You go to rehab, whatever. Yeah.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So I always had undulating health all my life. So I was clinical faculty, I was actually setting up rural women’s health clinics throughout Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia and Southern Ohio and trying to help with rural clinical help to help people in these areas with their health. And it was difficult. It wasn’t an easy go. That was my job, primarily, there at the university. And then we taught residents and all that stuff, but I got really sick. I was doing surgeries and I had some residents with me and I was teaching them some laparoscopic techniques and we were starting to do robotics back then.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So you were surgery?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah, I was OB GYN. I did gynecological surgeries using the robots and robotic surgeries. And so I taught the residents. I started getting so much pain and I just kept moving forward, you know? Yeah. I’m in a lot of pain, unbelievable pain. And I noticed I was kind of forgetting some things a little bit at that time, but what happened was I just started passing out for no reason at all. And I passed out a couple of times in surgery. I went on medical disability, of course.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah, that doesn’t look good. You don’t want your surgeon doing that.
Gordon Crozier, DO
You don’t want your surgeon passing out. So I went on Medical disability, nobody could figure it out.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Arhythmia?
Gordon Crozier, DO
No, I had no arythmias that they could find. I think it was really POTS. And the thing was is that, nobody really figured it out.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
No one tries to figure it out is the problem.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So I began doing my own testing. So this is back in 2006, 2007. I started doing my own testing on myself and I’m going, oh my goodness, I have Lyme disease. And, oh my goodness, my inflammatory markers are really out of control. I started looking at my inflammatory markers and I’m going, wow, I’ve got something else pushing down my immune system. I don’t have an immune system. I kind of figured it out on my own and I kind of listened to some other, there weren’t a lot of Lyme doctors back then, there were a few, but you know, just trying to figure it out.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Would you also say, I really think that people say, Oh, what specialty? It doesn’t matter, but it matters what you learn after you’re out. And it’s just incredible. I really think you can look at old literature and be a better specialist in about two months than most specialties. Not surgery or something like that, but all these other ones, because they’re just stuck doing what they were taught in residency. The only studies – they don’t even read the studies, they say they do – is a drug rep comes in it’s something new on the formulary. I did a paper on it, what doctors know, because people go, why doesn’t my doctor know this? In Annals of Internal Medicine they found that doctors are practicing 20 years behind what’s available in the medical literature. They do not read medical literature, even though they say they do.
And when they do, they may read the abstract, but they really don’t. But even worse is that if you give a doctor here’s 10 studies showing what you’re doing is not the best treatment, they don’t want to hear it. Nope, no, no. My patients are different. It even got into the LA times saying that doctors that don’t want to follow, they say they’re evidence-based, but you give them the evidence and they go, no, I don’t believe that one because it’s not what I do. I don’t believe that one. Which is why you look at levels of evidence basically got the randomized, double blind placebo controlled. Then you got meta analysis and single blind and case studies. And then you have societal recommendations, which are the worst level of evidence. What do most doctors go by? Oh, cardiology society, endocrine society, says do this. It’s the worst level because they don’t change their opinion based on new evidence. They have a position and they don’t change no matter what comes out. It’s frustrating, but you sound like you’ve got a good mix, good relationship with the standard docs.
Gordon Crozier, DO
I try because we have to. I’ve gone through it because I actually was reported to my board by a plastic surgeon who didn’t believe that the breast implants that the woman I was seeing, she had breast implants and I’m going, I’ve done everything for you. I swear, it’s your breast implants. I’d just go back to them and see if they are. She went back and asked him, can my breast implants be making me sick? And he reported me to the board saying everything I was doing was a bunch of hoax and dah dah dah. So we all have to go through those fights. So because of that, I’m trying to make friends with my colleagues around here to let them know that this is a valid form of medicine. All I’m doing is reading research and seeing what can be applied to the human person so that they can live a better life. I don’t say I can cure anybody. I don’t say that I can make them totally well or heal them, but I can tell you, I can make you have a better life.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I like that. But it’s funny if a doctor can’t do it, it’s quackery. If they don’t know about it, you know? It’s interesting, but doctors are miserable, they’re stuck – I get so mad at doctors when I take a step back and okay, they’re stuck in a system where they can’t basically do anything anyways. Why read the study because they can’t say I’m going to do this new treatment. When I had Lyme, I was in the ICU with sepsis and I remember the nurses going, this is the HIV patient that keeps coming up negative, you know? And then there were studies on IV vitamin C and I asked the intensivist about it. Never heard of it. And I asked can you just get it, it’s so safe. And I’m also, I’ve got a blown pupil, give me peptides, give me progesterone and they wouldn’t do anything. Then the ICU guys with the vitamin C, finally one nurse said I’ll go make them do it, here, give me the studies. And I don’t know, eight hours later, they’re going to do it. And they came back to my room six hours later with 500 milligrams of vitamin C.
Gordon Crozier, DO
You’ve got to be kidding.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I can go to 7-11 and get that. So you got to laugh or else you get depressed. Our whole medical system, and I don’t know if you’re on the ILADS list, but Dr. Horowitz, there was a patient that a Senator asked him to help with and give them glutathione to reverse basically ARDS, lung failure with COVID-19, and the board wouldn’t approve it. There’s no downside and they didn’t get it to them fast enough, it took too long, so sad, but what he had to go through just to give the safest thing that we give, how many times a day? They go I’ve never heard of it. Well, here’s the study, and he couldn’t convince him and the patient died.
Gordon Crozier, DO
There’s over 300,000 studies in pub med on glutathione and they won’t do it. That’s a peptide too. It’s a tri peptide.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Exactly true. And no one should be dying from COVID 19
Gordon Crozier, DO
No.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It’s absurd. They’re letting people die just to get a vaccine. We need a vaccine. Even if you just go to give everyone vitamin D and Zinc, I don’t know if I should be saying all this, but I mean, simple things and then peptides. I did a talk on peptides and stem cells and exosomes for COVID-19, which we have to edit this out, showing there are studies that show significant benefit. There’s a bunch of trials and these things are cheap and safe , but we don’t want that. We want expensive and patented and it’s crazy. But I could go on and on, I’m going to get myself in trouble.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Let’s not do that.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Let’s do some case studies.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Sure. So the first one is a Parkinson’s patient. So let’s talk a little bit about Parkinson’s. A lot of people go on a lot of Parkinson’s meds, and this was a 74 year old who was really on a lot of meds and he’d been on them for a long time. Well you know the longer they’re on them, they really don’t work very well. And that was his big complaint and why he came to me. So he came to me because his meds really were not working well for him. He would take them and two hours later, he’d start to get rigidity and cogwheeling and he couldn’t do it. He was having problems focusing. He was also getting a little bit of depression too. He was a very analytical guy. So he would put everything out and have everything very strategic. Every time he came to me it says at this time, at this time, and he had everything in 15 minute increments all day long for weeks on end. And he expected me to look at all these graphs and I’m, oh my, a little bit over the top. He was a smart guy, very smart. He built a cockpit in his basement and all these things, so he came in, he really wanted help
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Just think what he feels like. He was a brilliant guy and now he’s just frail, debilitated. And they just give them meds and say go away.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. Here’s your meds, go away. You know? And he had been to a lot of places and I won’t say some of the hospitals because I don’t want to get in trouble
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. They go, I’m going to Mayo clinic. All right, I’ll see you in a month.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So he came in, he did have some elevated inflammatory markers. His TgIf beta was elevated. So he had inflammation, his C4a was elevated. So you were thinking oh, does he have CIRS? Does he have, what does he have?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I just want to mention those are inflammatory markers that most doctors will say, oh, inflammatory marker, the C-reactive protein. That’s all they check, which we find isn’t often elevated in these patients. So these are different, more specific inflammatory markers.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right. So they’re inflammatory markers that I look at. I look at all the inflammatory markers
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Everything’s inflammation, you look at all the diseases
Gordon Crozier, DO
Exactly. That’s what I find out with a lot of the Parkinson’s patients is they have a lot of neuroinflammation. So naturally when you have neuroinflammation, nothing is really going to work quite correctly. So he had a lot of it. In fact, his C4a was 1,960. I’m just looking at it right here. I pulled it up.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
At what lab?
Gordon Crozier, DO
This is through Quest.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Do you have a problem getting that?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Now I am. This is a year and a half ago.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
All the key tests, natural killer cell function, [inaudible] growth factor. Beta. Those are the three they screw up every time.
Gordon Crozier, DO
They always mess them up. And sometimes if I get – like when I got this back, this was a repeat, because I said, Oh, that’s way too high. They didn’t do something right. Let’s do it again. So I said, let’s draw it in our office, because I can do that and they come and pick them up so that I can actually know that this is really, it was processed correctly.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Those have to be processed correctly.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So we did it and it actually was the same. So I guess it was right.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I went to Quest myself and the phlebotomist was, Oh, this is that doctor that writes for so many tests. I’m likem, oh yeah, I heard he’s really cute. And then she goes, Oh, let me send off your natural killer cell. I’ll be right back. I go, okay, that’s great. Getting back no specimen [inaudible] Quest, but they’re all terrible.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. It doesn’t matter what lab you use anymore. It’s independent. So he was just desperate for something, his C-reactive protein was actually elevated too. It was 11.4. So he had a high C-reactive protein. His homocysteine was 14. I’m just looking at his labs right now. I pulled them up. And so he had high inflammation, even on the inflammatory markers that normal people look at, the normal physicians that don’t look a little bit deeper. So he just really wanted help. He wanted something and you know they’ve done lots of studies on glutathione and how it works. And we’ve all probably seen some Parkinson’s patients. If you do an IV glutathione, they’re pretty good immediately, but it’s only going to last a very, very short period of time. So it’s really not good because we need something that’s going to work a little bit better.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Those IV studies were out a long time ago.
Gordon Crozier, DO
A long time ago.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Again, it’s that old research
Gordon Crozier, DO
Old research.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Have you found giving, NAC continuously to Parkinson’s patients is beneficial, which converts to glutathione.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. I will do that because most people, the NAC it’s the systine component. So a lot of people, when you study most people – because I always do an amino acid profile on everybody –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I’m going to get into the tests you like later, just so you know.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Oh, okay. I try to use ones where their insurance is going to pay for it. So I will use amino acid profiles from Quest and LabCorp through standard ones if I have to. But then I also use something called Vibrant of America. It’s probably one of my favorites. So I use a lot of their testing for their environmental testing too. So I always do amino acid profiles because if I’m going to be giving any peptides, peptides are amino acids in chains. So if you are short on amino acids, a lot of times those peptides are going to break up to provide the amino acid that is actually needed in the body. And then you don’t really get the full benefit. You might get some, but you’re not going to get the full benefit of that peptide. So that’s why I always do that. So I can actually optimize their full amino acid profile first because I think it’s good for us to know, and I can’t necessarily remember every time. Oh yeah. That is a 15 chain peptide. And it has [inaudible] I can’t remember those. So I do look them up from time to time, to make sure that that person, if that person is deficient on amino acids, I want to make sure it’s not one of the ones that I’m going to be giving in a peptide.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Is your thought that it will take it from the peptide.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And do you replace with amino acids IV or orally?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes, I do. I will do it first IV wise and then do it orally.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I think that helps with everything, and I think when we were talking before about how the peptides are really synergistic with so many different therapies and while they’ll work on their own, but basically it’s exponentially with every other treatment
Gordon Crozier, DO
I think so. I think exactly that way.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I mentioned a doctor came to one of the conferences and talked about BPC157 and said, Oh my gosh, it makes everything work better. And I had never met her, it was Dr. Tringale who we’re going to interview next. She’s just in love with it. It works great on its own, but even better when you use it with other therapies.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Exactly. And you can take that orally. It’s very stabilized orally. Most of them you’re getting them stabilized to take orally and that’s the why that I love about what you do is because you are actually going to the next level to actually help these things be stabilized for oral use. And that’s, what’s so amazing about you.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I think I could have retired with the money we’re spending. But no, I love it too. It’s kind of like researching and trying to make a better mouse trap.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. So because he had such high inflammation, of course I put him on oral regimes and I put him on – he was on NAC, of course. But I also really did some IV therapies with him too of amino acids and some other things so that we could actually –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Do you like ozone?
Gordon Crozier, DO
I do like ozone.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s one of our mainstays, I think it goes along well with everything.
Gordon Crozier, DO
I think ozone works well with most treatment modalities and I think it really augments a lot of them. So I love ozone. But I started him actually on thymosin alpha one, and I started him on that first because of his inflammatory markers. I wanted to make sure we were modulating things. And just looking at even his monocytes, monocytes I look at for gut and bowel inflammation because there’s some evidence, you’ve probably heard Dr. LaVelle talk about it many times, Jim LaVelle, that if your monocytes are over seven, you probably have some bowel inflammation. I look at that on every single person, because there’s a lot of people, they don’t have bowel issues, but they might have a little bit of inflammation there. That little bit of inflammation in their bowel is going to make them not create some of the neuro peptides that [inaudible].
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah, it’s so connected.
Gordon Crozier, DO
It’s so connected.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I’ve even stopped doing food sensitivity because they’re positive of everything, all these big [inaudible] coming through. On everyone. Even pretty healthy people it’s all this American diet and stress and whatever else, toxins, pesticides, everything. But everyone’s bowels are messed up and I think it’s a big part of the whole vicious cycle.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right. So I started him on that thymosin alpha one, but then I also put him on C -Lank and C-Max.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Can you talk about those?
Gordon Crozier, DO
I love C-Lank and C-Max. So C-Lank, it is a modulator, there’s some evidence, I have an article that I actually had pulled up a couple of weeks ago and it was on how C-Lank affects GABA, but C-Lank also affects genetic expression for neurotransmitters. I had not seen this article before and it was way back from 2018. Why did I not see this article before?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Well, there’s so many.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. That’s why I try to read at least six to eight every morning. You know, that’s my morning routine, I’m going to read six to eight articles,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
You do every morning more than most doctors do in a year. Just let you know. I mean, that’s totally true.
Gordon Crozier, DO
But you’re falling behind if you don’t. That’s my thing. I still feel like I’m falling behind and that’s why, putting things by you, you find different articles than I do. So I have different people that can say, Hey, have you seen this article, this great article about whatever.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I love that when people send me, or patient’s find something, because I remember 15, 20 years ago it used to be you’d have to go to the library, find the journal, which often wasn’t there, take it and stick it on the copy machine. Now it’s information overload, right? There’s so much, you have to keep looking at all these services. That’s the problem, I have so much stuff thrown at me. It’s trying to take the time to just sort through them, even to see which ones you want to read. And if I were to pan over the stacks of journals that are in my to read pile it gets crazy.
Gordon Crozier, DO
It does. It gets very crazy. And then you spend this time reading this article and you figure it out it’s not even statistically significant. I spent all that time on that article and it’s no good. I like C-Lank because of that, and it also helps to increase bone derived neurotropic factor.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So between,C-Lank and C-Max they’re both good for brain? I noticed that with C-Lank, when I’m stressed I go, where’s my C-Lank?
Gordon Crozier, DO
There’s a lot of emphasis that it’s an anti-anxialytic. I will use it on my patients that are overly anxious, too. And it’s very easy to use, just nasal spray, just carry it around with you, put it in a nasal spray, but they say it won’t work after it’s out of the fridge. I don’t know.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And I don’t think I’ve ever seen a side effect from them.
Gordon Crozier, DO
No. no, I haven’t had any.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
We do the injection. We’re working on oral.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, that’s great.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I can’t guarantee that it absorbs yet, but when we can, I’ll let you know.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, let me know. And C-Max of course, as you know, it helps with dopamine and dopaminergic activity, which is part of the Parkinson’s things because there’s dopamine receptors and they’re not expressing enough dopamine and their dopamine receptors aren’t working correctly.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s the whole key, right?
Gordon Crozier, DO
That is the key for Parkinson’s. So I like those two simultaneously, together,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Also dopamine for depression , motivation, all that. And cerebrolysin, I think you were using.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes. and actually this guy did get cerebrolysin too, because I could get it back then. Now, we can’t get cerebrolysin.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Can you just explain what cerebrolysin is?
Gordon Crozier, DO
So cerebrolysin is a peptide that actually comes from pig brain, but it actually helps with the neuro connections. There’s some theories that it actually helps with some of the enzymatic functions in the brain. So the enzymes are working correctly, the neuro connections are developing and working correctly and there’s some articles on helping with [inaudible] tangles as well. There’s some good.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That goes along with Alzheimer’s and it increases connection. So in theory, it should make you smarter, you know, the more connections – So recently the FDA said it’s a biologic. It will be available orally, which studies show it works through EEG studies showing it. But I love cerebrolysin as well. It’s been around forever and used in Europe as a standard therapy for Alzheimer’s, traumatic brain injury, anything neurologic and we are so behind on all this stuff. I’m sure when you give lectures people go why haven’t I heard of this stuff? And they’ve been around forever because they’ve been around forever and there’s no patent on them, that’s why you don’t hear about them here.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right. Right. And cerebrolysin was great. I used it on a couple of football players, ex-football players, that actually had a lot of brain injury and brain trauma. We had some, MRIs actually showing a difference in the brain volume from before to after. And I used to use it in some old things. Now I don’t want to use them because the FDA doesn’t want us to use it anymore. So I don’t want them to think I’m using it.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It’s like hey, if it’s safe and it works, they’re going to try to take it away. Yeah. I remember it was at a stem cell conference in Florida, it was NIH, I think, they just studied, they could tell what position the football player played, professional football players, by where the brain damage was. And you can reverse it.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. Yeah. And they’re showing it not just even by cerebrolysin, but there’s other things. There’s so many things that are becoming tight for us to be able to even get, and then you’re beginning to worry about the quality.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I’m very scared that all the stuff’s going to be taken away. I’m thinking, okay, what country do I move to? Or why don’t we all get together and buy a yacht, park it four miles off the coast and we can do whatever we want.
Gordon Crozier, DO
I’ve thought about that same thing. I thought I could just get a yacht and go four miles off the coast. And then I thought well, it’s a quick flight down there to Barbados, maybe I could go to Barbados. It’s only $250,000 to become a citizen of Barbados, so I can become a citizen. Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Maybe we get a two for one. Yeah. I think I have a coupon.
Gordon Crozier, DO
There we go. So I also did some other things with him because I really believe just like in the Alzheimer’s patients, you need the proper fats for the brain. So I always give them phosphatidylcholine. Phosphatidylcholine is one of my things that I use a lot of IV wise and I use a lot of it orally. And it helps a lot of these patients because almost every one of my patients has some kind of neurological insult.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I like it better for chelation, getting rid of heavy metals, toxins. I think it’s great.
Gordon Crozier, DO
I think it does a great job and people tolerate going under chelation better with phosphatidylcholine than with EDTA or DSMA. So I think that they don’t have to go under those harsh circumstances and we still can get some great results. And I’ve actually found that for some of the environmental toxins, like Roundup, when I test somebody – everybody has Roundup in them, right?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Why is it still on the market?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. I test a lot of those environmental toxins, but I find that phosphatidylcholine, really I can get good results of bringing those down very nicely withphosphatidylcholine, not any other agent, just phosphatidylcholine. That’s why I really love it
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I agree with you and the studies on BPC157 shows that it’ll protect the body from numerous toxins. They did studies on alcohol, protect the liver from basically high liver enzymes, protect from overdose of medications, prevents a hangover too, mycotoxins, neurotoxins. So it’s nice it prevents that damage from them. We are bombarded with toxins, so everyone should be on it, really,
Gordon Crozier, DO
Really, we all should be on BPC157. I have my kids on it.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Again, what’s the downside? You can say cost, but it’s not that expensive. You can do a thousand times a dose. They can’t find a toxic level.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right. That’s the nice thing about it, right? And that’s the nice thing about a lot of the peptides, nobody’s ever been, really, there’s a few that have some toxic issues with them, but I haven’t found hardly any of them to really have any problems at all.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Compare that to any medication. Over the counter, antibiotics, or when you look at the studies on TB4 or BPC, you can take a thousand times a dose, no toxicity. Try that with anything, Tylenol, try it with water. It’s less toxic than water.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, our water’s pretty toxic. So, he was ecstatic. He actually began to be able to move quite normally. I didn’t really take him off any of his other medications.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
How long after starting this stuff?
Gordon Crozier, DO
So he started feeling more aware and cognitively he felt like he was back about two weeks after starting everything. So, two weeks, and really when you began to look at his inflammatory markers, his inflammatory markers came down, it took three months for his inflammatory markers to really come the whole way down to a normal range. But they came down, they were in the normal range. The last time I checked him –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
From 11, the CRP was 11 or something?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. 11.4. And he came down. Well, he was still, let me look back to what he was three months out. He was still up there a little bit, he was 6.2. But you know what he is today? I just saw him not too long ago. So I’m pulling up his labs here. I saw him three weeks ago and his CRP was 0.4.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
You’re the man, I love it.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So it’s great because now it’s a year and a half out and he has more of a life. He goes out with his wife, they walk every day, they do all kinds of things. They moved from New Jersey down to the villages.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Think of the impact on his life. Wow. What did the neurologist say?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, the neurologist is saying, Oh, this couldn’t be, it’s just by chance.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So they’d rather believe it’s a miracle.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. They said your medications just now started working, so make sure you keep taking his meds.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s good. Yes. It usually takes four years to kick in.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Now I’ve had some patients that have gone back to their doctors with neurological issues and they’ve gone back there and he says, Oh, you’re not using a cane to walk in here. And he said, I must have misdiagnosed you. And he walked out and never saw the patient again.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Have you seen ALS patients at all?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So the ALS patients come in, they’re in a wheelchair, they’re jogging and they go back to the neurologist. Oh, it must have been misdiagnosis and they’ll never admit it was the treatment. Or one patient with a hurdle cell cancer and her doctor was like you have to get this taken out tomorrow or you’re going to die. And then she came and saw me. I said, I think we can reverse it, so give me six months. And we did, got the scan, the biopsy, it’s gone. She goes back to her doctor who she was very friendly with and thought he’d be so excited. He wouldn’t come out of the room. And just told the front desk to tell her she’s no longer a patient.
Gordon Crozier, DO
You know, I thought we were supposed to be happy for our people and in our patients when they got better, no matter if I get them better or somebody else gets them better. I’m always excited when somebody gets better and I don’t have to be the one that gets them better.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
If you can learn something from someone else, awesome.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right. We’ve got to learn from each other and I don’t understand the hostility between all the physicians and why we’re trying to cut each other’s –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Anything else? I’m going to babble so long because I love hearing all your stuff. We’re gonna go on forever. Anything else with that one or do you want to move to the next one?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Let’s move to the next one so we can get some people with some gut issues.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
All right. Sounds good.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Because of my own history with Crohn’s, so I had Crohn’s as well, not just Lyme and mold, but I had Crohn’s as well and Hashimoto’s. So I get a lot of Crohn’s patients just because in one of my books, I talk about the Crohn’s issue.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Just back to the Parkinson’s, did you check for Lyme or anything?
Gordon Crozier, DO
I did because of his C4a being high and C3a being high. He had both of them high, so I checked. All of his other, his ACTH, MSH, ADH they were all normal. His Western blot, but I don’t go just totally on that, so we went to the [inaudible] route and I did that test and he was negative on that. So then I did some PCR. I did the PCR test too. And he was negative on all of that. So he did not have any Lyme, which I was surprised because –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Until proven otherwise.
Gordon Crozier, DO
He did have some environmental toxins and I have to be honest, he did have some environmental toxins. They weren’t the worst environmental toxins I’ve ever seen. I see healthy people that have that amount of environmental toxins.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Again it goes along with genes and all the other stuff, strep is huge. If someone has Lyme, I think they’re going to be fine, but then you add on stress and mold and genetics. So it’s just, we’re being bombarded, and it seems to me at parties or whatever, everyone coming up, I’m sick, my sister’s sick…everyone’s sick.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Oh yes, I know. I went to a party the other night and everybody’s coming up to me. Oh, I need your help, I’ve got this. Or I’ve got that.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Do you get this? I say you should do this, this, this, or test this. No, my doctor says, that’s not it. I’m like, okay, how’s that working for you?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right, exactly. So this was one of my favorite patients. She was a 42 year old female. She had three children, she really wanted to be active and she was on biologics, of course, like most Crohn’s patients. They’re all on some kind of biologic, but they weren’t working for her. And they were making her so fatigued. She said I can’t even enjoy playing with my children anymore because I’m so fatigued. Everything’s out of whack with me. I just can’t figure it out. I’m just tired all the time. And her father is a dentist around here and her father had some patients that came to me. So that’s how she ended up coming to me. And she came in and really all her numbers were perfect and I’m like, I’ve not seen this before, even in my patients that are just coming in for anti-aging, they don’t even have this good numbers.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah, people always say what if you don’t find anything? It hasn’t happened yet.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So I was just kind of shocked at how good our numbers were, but her gastroenterologist had shared all the slides and all the things. So she really did have Chron’s. Nothing was helping her with her Chron’s. And, she was losing some weight and she did a lot of yoga and she already ate pretty pristine. Although she was Italian and she loved her pizza and her pastas. So she ate a lot of gluten. A lot. And I addressed that right away where let’s stop the gluten. Let’s try to get gluten-free things because there’s a lot out there that’s available. But it’s hard for the Italians to do away with that. She actually was in one of the local newspapers around here because of her story, which actually it was talking about peptides.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Oh, I was going to say congratulations, but you never know.
Gordon Crozier, DO
I’m going oh my goodness, now I have a target on my back. Right. So I was a little bit worried about that because she told her story in this newspaper. And I was like, oh no, I really don’t want that kind of publicity.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It’s scary. You find this safe treatment that helped someone with a horrible illness. And the first thing you think of is oh no.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So I started her on BPC157 right away, but I also did some thymosin alpha one because I really think that that helps with modulation of the immune system because Crohn’s is really an autoimmune process. So I always do that with my Crohn’s patients or anybody with autoimmune I’ll put them on thymosin alpha one. That’s just what I do. And so she was on both of those from the get-go, from the beginning and she really started getting some benefit. I don’t know if you’ve read any of the articles on how C-Lank actually helps with the healing of the gut as well. So I actually did put her on some C-Lank and that’s when I had some C-Lank that we didn’t have to do it intranasally. You could actually give a sub Q injection of it. So we did sub Q injections for C-Lank for her. And you know what, she came off all biologics because they weren’t really helping her anyway.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And C-Lank is another immune modulator.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. So I think it was primarily her immune system that really was out of balance and really causing that issue,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
What was her [inaudible], beta, CPRA, natural killer cell function
Gordon Crozier, DO
Her natural killer cells were great. They were normal. I was really surprised. but she was good. Her, TGF beta was normal C4a, C3a.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I would have bet money that someone with Chron’s…but it’s interesting, just a little similar story, It was an eight year old girl that mom brought in. They tried everything, were going to do a collectomy. Basically the BPC157, the TB4 fragment orally, and just dramatic change. We also did some stem cells, what are they now, signaling cells. [inaudible] D cellulite, Dramatic improvement, right. So no longer need a collectomy. And then she went and had dinner with, it actually turned out to be my partner, and said, Oh my God, we’re so happy with this doctor that they were going to do surgery on her and he got her better. And my partner’s like, is it Holtorf? She goes, yeah do you know him? He’s like yeah, it’s my partner. So it was funny, he’s a family friend of theirs.
Gordon Crozier, DO
That’s great.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
An eight year old, saved from a collectomy, you know?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. I have a little 11 year old boy like that too right now, and he’s so much better
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I imagine you treat autism?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
But don’t the autism kids look just like the CIRS, the Lyme
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. And there’s so much the same. So I have a story about that because my 22 year old son was on the spectrum. You know, he had the flapping hands, he couldn’t look at you in the eye. He just really, socially was very awkward. He’s a very intelligent boy, but just socially was really, really awkward and really had a hard time. He went to go to college and he couldn’t even go because he couldn’t go into the classroom because he got so distraught and it was just so, it didn’t even work out. So I paid for college for nothing. , But I started treating him and we got him a lot better. So those peptides work well for those –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I like stem cells, and the exosomes and the peptides are great. Yeah. I can tell you a bunch of stories of kids where the mom’s sending a video, playing basketball, the basketball just went by him. And we’d have to do him before anyone comes in because he’s just throwing F-bombs like crazy, no one could get near him. Now he comes in and goes, can I have a hug? He’s sarcastic, he gives [inaudible] and they show him doing gymnastics and actually playing basketball. Pretty amazing. Yeah.
Gordon Crozier, DO
That’s like my son. Most people would look at him now and say he’s normal. He’s normal. He’s not the same kid he used to be. He is normal. And he actually is now working for eight different doctors and he’s their medical assistant and he loves it. He likes to stay busy, but he’s out there. He’s social. It’s wonderful.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s awesome. That’s great.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So she was doing great. Now this is one story about her. I want people to know. And I think it’s really critical that people realize that they’re going to have to pulse these things on and off the rest of their lives. They’re just not better. And then you walk out there and you’re great. Because she did get decellularized growth factors as well. And she did so well from that. And she just, her bowel movements were normal. Everything was completely normal. She loved it. She felt great. She had more energy. Probably about eight months to nine months later, she started feeling bad and she didn’t come back in right away. She didn’t say anything. She just thought, Oh, it’s gonna pass. It’s gonna pass. Well then before long she starts getting worse. And then she comes in and it’s like starting all over from scratch. Where if you realize that this is going to be the thing, if you have BPC157, you can take it all the time. But if you can’t afford to take it all the time at least pulse it once you’re better because you’re going to have to be on that on and off forever.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
For whatever reason, the stress, genetics, the toxins you’re exposed to, mold, whatever they got going on.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, yeah. And that’s the reason. And when she came back in the second time, she had CIRS markers that time. So she really did. And her genetics really show that she had HLA where she really couldn’t get rid of the mycotoxins well, so her mycotoxins were probably we needed to bring them down and we needed to get those CIRS count back up
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
What therapies do you like for getting rid of mycotoxins?
Gordon Crozier, DO
There’s something I really like. It’s called MycoBind, and it’s by PHP. So that MycoBind, I see their results for their mycotoxins come down pretty dramatically, not right away, but over time. I love it because of that. And I think that combined with phosphatidylcholine is kind of essential for bringing down those mycotoxins.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
With the MycoBind, I think like the cholestyramine it just binds everything else and it’s such a hassle. Is it easier to take the MycoBind?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes. So the MycoBind, I don’t think it’s binding all the nutrients like the cholestyramine. The cholestyramine a lot a lot of my CIRS patients never tolerated that. So you put them on [inaudible]. They were all the same. Nobody tolerated them. So I had to find something else. So when this came available I was so ecstatic because I was actually asking for it for a long time. There were a couple other doctors asking for it too, for quite a while. And so I love it because it has the okra and the beet together. And it has that fiber component from both of them that is actually the proper electrical charge. So you have to have the right electron charge to actually pull those mycotoxins out, right? So people that are doing charcoals and stuff like that, they don’t realize that the charcoal is actually the same charge as the mycotoxins. You’re not actually pulling the toxins, you’re pulling other toxins.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I don’t know. I’m just amazed that you’re getting down to this biochemical cellular level I’m just thinking how many gastroenterologist talk about that.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Not too many. So we did get her better again, but it did take a little bit longer the second time around. She wasn’t better in three weeks.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Did you check her house for mold or anything.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. I had her check her house. So immediately when she came back in and I realized, Hey, you’ve had a mold exposure. Well, then I found out the whole thing is she was separated from her husband. She moved out, she moved into a different place, so she had all this stress, a lot of stress. And then she had moved into a moldy apartment building. And I’m going, this is what’s going on. You’ve got to get out of there. You have to be in a safe place. Thank goodness you’re renting this place. I always encourage everybody, if you’re renting, have that place inspected before you move into it.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Having some inspectors that it’s hard to find, are they going to, especially ones that do the remediation themselves , Oh, there’s mold everywhere, you know? What tests do you like for home?
Gordon Crozier, DO
For the home? I use a guy. His name is John Bodey, he’s an environmental guy. He does a lot of the government buildings as well, and he tests them for mycotoxins. So I use him for testing, but if I’m going to just test, some people use the [inaudible] I don’t think that’s so accurate, always. There is something from Real Time where you can actually swab the filters in your furnaces, and you can actually send that off to see if you’re having them floating out through the house, because a lot of these molds are behind the walls and you don’t see them.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
We want to know what’s out in the air
Gordon Crozier, DO
But the gases are coming through and it’s really hard to test those gases. So everybody wants to test the mold that’s out here in your room. You might not have mold. You’re going to have the gases out here because the mold is probably behind the walls. I want to know what the mycotoxins are in my house. And so I use the Real Time, I do that. I swab ours from time to time, and then I have a friend comes in to test.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I don’t want to open a can of worms, but EMF, thoughts on that?
Gordon Crozier, DO
EMF? I put EMF blockers everywhere in my house.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. So I have a guy coming over tomorrow to our house, I’m building a house, to check everything. The builder let everything get moldy. He’s like, oh don’t worry about it. No, I’m worried about it. I mean, you see black mold everywhere. That’s a mold guy, but the EMFs, I told a bunch of people just turn off your wifi at night. And people say I don’t believe in that, but a couple people did it and they’re like, I slept better. And then all of a sudden didn’t sleep and I realized I didn’t do it. I did it and started sleeping better. So I think it’s another area, just wait till 5g.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right, right. I’m a little concerned about that, but our wifi turns off automatically every night in our house. In fact, that’s why I came to my office to do this.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Intertesting. And it makes mold grow faster too.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes, it does. So now I do EMF blockers, on my laptop here, I have an EMF blocker on here.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Do you think those work, the little dots and things like that?
Gordon Crozier, DO
I’m not sure how well they work, but I feel better when I have them on and I have one on my phone. I put them on my kids’ phones. So, I feel better when I have them on versus don’t have them on. So I don’t know how much of a thing that is. And I don’t know how to actually study these things and test these things to see if they’re really working or not. And so that’s what I’d like to find the science on these things, to see how
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I’ll ask the guy tomorrow. He’s the man supposedly, and he’s going to come over and analyze our house and everything.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, when you find that out, you let me know, because I don’t have an answer on that stuff yet.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I’m going to ask him that I didn’t think to ask him that, but I’m going to ask
Gordon Crozier, DO
I really haven’t studied that enough. And to be honest with you, I have some EMF patients, but most of them actually have mold.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It is, it goes together. They just get sensitive and where other people go that’s crazy, because I’m fine, and I’m exposed. With mold, people who are in the same house, it’s one person who is the one who’s sick because they have all the other stuff going on. Or vaccinations, who’s going to get vaccination harm. You look at their immune system. If their immune system is off, they are much more likely. And I think it’s kind of a marker and a cause, whatever it is, makes them much more prone. For instance, I had Lyme and if I had a flare, I’d be allergic to everything. And when I didn’t, I wouldn’t, you know?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. It’s strange how that goes, you know? And I know when my mycotoxins levels are going up in my body and I live in Florida, so we’re pretty humid out here. It’s pretty humid. You know, I have to be kind of careful, but I like to go over to the beach a lot. And you can tell because I’ve got some sun on me because I go to the beach a lot, but I love the salt air.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Those negative ions, or even in the shower you think better. That’s why I have a little notepad that sticks because all your great ideas are in the shower but then you forget when you get out. Same at the beach, it just kind of clears your mind and you think better. But again, I’m babbling too much. Let’s go on. I think we have alast one.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So I have two we can talk about. We can either do another Chron’s patient or we can do this, I have a patient he’s interesting. Why don’t we do this one? He’s a Tourette’s. So a lot of people think, Oh, Tourette’s. He’s a 44 year old he was a father of triplets. He was busy. He was always working. He was a hard worker. and so he didn’t have Tourette’s as a younger person, he really developed Tourette’s around the age of 40 and it was just kind of suddenly. And so trying to figure out his history, it was really kind of difficult. But he started having some random jerks. So then, he was a carpenter with his dad, and he couldn’t really do the carpenter work anymore. And so he just started getting worse and worse and worse. To the point where he’s making the grunts and the noises and he can’t control anything, but he was also getting –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s so hard, the self-consciousness and ability to work.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Then he started getting muscle rigidity. So he was from Alabama and he went to one of the major medical institutions there. And they put them on medications, but the medications did nothing for him. He was still –
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Like the anti-seizure meds, just stuff to slow everything down?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. So he was on a lot of anti-seizure medications, but he was also on lots of high doses of benzos. And I’m like, well, my goodness he was really on a lot. So when I did his results, he actually had positive for CIRS. He was really a CIRS patient. And I really thought, did this CIRS really induce a Tourette’s type thing? I’ve seen CIRS for people with dementia, people with ALS, people with all kinds of different things. but that was my first Tourette’s patient that actually was positive for CIRS.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Can you define CIRS for everyone?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. So CIRS is chronic inflammatory response syndrome. And a chronic inflammatory response syndrome usually happens because of biotoxins, toxins put off by biological organisms, like mold mycotoxins, but they can also, you can have CIRS because of toxins put off by Lyme, Bobesia, Bartonella, you name it, all those things are going to put off some type of toxin. So he actually had had a mold exposure, not realizing it and
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
One thought is that the combination of stress, a chronic infection and then a toxin. So I think there’s often an underlying infection.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, he had high Epstein-Barr titers too.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
No Lyme?
Gordon Crozier, DO
His Lyme was negative, but he had high Epstein-Barr and I was surprised. He was from Alabama. I was surprised he was negative. He was one of my first Alabama patients that was negative for Lyme.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
But there is no Lyme Alabama..
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. Right. There’s no Lyme in Florida either. For him his TgIF was 32,000
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
All kinds of inflammation. Basically his brain was just inflamed.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. His brain was inflamed. So Vibrant of America has something called the Neural Zoomer.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I was going to ask you because I didn’t recognize the name of the company. Neural Zoomer. How do you like that compared to the other PANS tests?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, I use a PANS test too, so I can’t say that I use one or the other more, but I do the PANS test too because I belong to that society.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
You want to take on everything, man.
Gordon Crozier, DO
So I like them both, but this one just seems that it hits a few more. So he had some antibodies to some things that really were key and instrumental for the anticholinergic things. He had antibodies for the blood brain barrier. He had a lot of inflammation in the brain basically. And so because of his inflammation in the brain, I said, we’ve got to pull your inflammation down. It’s got to be number one. And naturally, for the brain, you’re going to need fats. So you know that one of the first things I do is start IV Phosphatidylcholine on him. But I said, you know what, I want you to get this fast, so I want you to know this is my first trial of doing this. So my first trial of doing it is I filtered out thymosin alpha one, and I put it through a filter and I actually gave him thymosin alpha one through IV. But I filtered it.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
No, Hey, we do the peptides and I have some studies [inaudible] thymosin beta 4, and TB4 frag is actually a much smaller [inaudible] And suppressing microglial activation.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. The microglial activation is key.
Kent Holtorf, M.D..
The brain on fire.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. And that’s basically what I had was a brain on fire. I started giving him the thymosin alpha one, he was on BPC157 because he had gut inflammation too. And, of course BPC157 I love for everybody anyway. I just think itt works for everybody, so he was on that. We did do TB4 on him as well. And, I did do decellularized growth factors on him. Which are great, they’re a great anti-inflammatory they do cross the blood-brain barrier pretty well. And really brought a result for him but he does come down every three months and just do a little bit of a tune-up with me.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So did he stop having Tourette’s.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes, yes.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
You should write that in a journal.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. I I’m in the process of writing his.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Are there any cases of that?
Gordon Crozier, DO
I don’t know. He was diagnosed with Tourette’s, but did he truly have Tourette’s? I don’t know. Was it really more of the CIRS?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Oh, he didn’t really have that. He just likes to scream and cuss at people.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right, exactly. His kids really loved it and he went back to doing his artwork too. He was an artist, he’ll have to go back to doing his artwork. So it did take me a while, a long while, to get his TgIF beta down and his natural killer cells up. He didn’t have any natural killer cells.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And so you used melanatan, I think you said?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes, I used melanatan on him as well.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Can you talk about melanocortins?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, I love that because it’s a melanocortin and as you know, that helps with neurological and it helps with a lot of people think it’s just basically for the [inaudible] system, but there’s evidence that it really helps with serotonin uptake and it helps with neuromodulation. So that’s why I like that melanocortin system, because it’s so key in the circuitry of the neurons. So the neurons really respond to the melanocortin system.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
and again, KPV, which is a fragment of that, we’re coming out with some more potent and very anti-inflammatory. but the melanotan, known as the Barbie doll, because you get weight loss, increased libido, and you get tan. I found it’s great for younger people, but if you’re older then you get dark spots. I actually tried it and I’m like this isn’t working, I’m very ADD, this isn’t working into more and more, all of a sudden I am just so dark, I”m like some strange, I don’t know what continent or whatever, but I’m like, Oh my God. And that’s kind of a problem. and like PT141 for erectile dysfunction that’s another melanocortin which can cause some skin darkening. A little bit’s good, but in older people, dark spots and stuff.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yeah. Especially if you’re Irish, you don’t want to
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
KPV again is just the tripeptide it has all the anti-inflammatory, but doesn’t have the melanocyte stimulators. So you don’t get the skin pigmentation.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes. That’s a great product, great product. And it probably crosses the blood-brain barrier much better too, because it’s a smaller fragment.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. And for mast cell, which is such a big problem,
Gordon Crozier, DO
Mast cells are horrible. We have so many people with mast cell issues today. It’s just become a huge, huge issue. And, I don’t see too many people addressing the mast cell issue yet.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It’s all the nerds on the mast cell mastermind, but they’re still going after the direct. And I’m like, look upstream and modulate the immune system and you’re going to fix it and also corticotropin releasing hormone is huge mast cell stimulator. So if they have high ACTH you want to give a little bit of cortisol, not a ton, not prednisone or anything, but it’s bringing that ACTH down, which will lower that CRH. Mast cells are huge. But even my girlfriend ended up all of a sudden got dermatographia.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Oh really?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
She didn’t feel too bad. I was like, wait a minute. What’s going on? So that’s when we called the mold guy in and we can’t find any mold. But of course she won’t listen to me whatever say do this test. I have to send here to one of the other doctors in my office because God forbid she listens to me. But it was crazy, you know?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right, right. Yeah. And dermatographia, you know that’s a mast cell issue right away. So she has way too much
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I do love that when you have a new patient and all of a sudden you take a pen and it flares up. They’re like, what? It’s so common.
Gordon Crozier, DO
It’s very common anymore. And so that’s why you really have to address that melanocortin system, but the melanocortin system really helps with a lot of these issues, with neurological issues of course, because it does not happen neurologically. So that’s why Iike the central nervous system and the hypothalamic issues with that are kind of key.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s like everything. It’s inflammation in the hypothalamus, diabetes, causes the insulin resistance, the brain, you get depression and anxiety and sleep disorders and pain, all that.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Exactly. And you address that and you address the hypothalamus these people with the pain syndromes, it really helps them a lot.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And I did review on HPA Axis dysfunction and chronic fatigue syndrome. And they found there – I think chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia did a disservice to people because it’s like, oh, press on 11 to 18 tender points, which they have nothing special about those tender points. The rheumatologists take 20 minutes to do it. Do you have muscle pain? Okay. Do you have a sleep disorder. Yeah. You got fatigue. Okay. You got fibromyalgia. And then compare it to chronic fatigue syndrome, which is symptom-based and they found the difference though, was that the fibromyalgia patients had inflammation in the hypothalamus while they chronic fatigue syndrome more in the pituitary. So, which makes sense pain center and the hypothalamus. And so you fix that. And also it was like 57%, no more than that, 60 something percent of fibromyalgia patients had autoimmunity, which just shows that it’s all immune, all inflammation.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right. And they develop autoimmunity in their brain. And so neurological autoimmunity is a real thing that we’ve got to start addressing and getting it calmed down because that’s why a lot of these people are presenting with neurological issues and nobody can really pinpoint it because it really doesn’t fit any specific category.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
They roll their eyes, as soon as they come in and say they have fibromyalgia or Lyme, the doctors go, Oh my God, and, I know you probably have this. It’s like we have patients crying on the first visit, or when we do the labs and show them on paper that they’re sick. Oh my God. No one believed me. And you know, do you really believe me? I’m like, yes, it’s right here.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes. This is it. I see it right here. And that’s what I love about doing what we do, because you get some, it’s hard because they’re demanding, the patients are demanding, they’ve been sick forever and they’ve been neglected and they’ve been told they’re crazy and it’s all in their head. I know I was told that.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And they’ve tried so many things where doctors say it’s placebo, but they don’t respond to placebo because nothing’s worked.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Right. Right. And so when you help them it’s just worth it, It just makes it so worthwhile.
Kent Holtorf, M.D..
Exactly. That’s, that’s why you can, it’s tough, but go in again the next day.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Exactly.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It’s awesome. I can see you’re just changing so many lives on a daily basis that you’re probably like, people are so thankful, you’re like, Oh yeah. That’s what I do.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Exactly. We have to just train enough other physicians because I can’t treat everybody.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It’s true.You’re just by yourself?
Gordon Crozier, DO
Yes. I’m just by myself. I kind of would like a PA or nurse practitioner to come in with me at some point here. So, we’re just recovering a little bit from COVID too, so once we grow a little bit more.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
[inaudible] my assistant. So awesome. This has been great. I don’t know how long we’ve been talking.
Gordon Crozier, DO
I don’t either. I don’t even know what time it is.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I love all your information and you’re so humble too.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Oh, thank you. You are too. I love your knowledge base too. It’s just so great. We’re going to have to get together.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Hey I’ve been thinking about some things actually while we’re talking because we’re certainly like-minded and your passion is just amazing.
Gordon Crozier, DO
Well, thank you. So is yours, and I’m glad you’re getting the fragments of these things and getting them so that we can actually take them orally and really getting where we really need to get with these because the FDA is not going to come against a fragment of something, they don’t even know what that is.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
We’re trying. I didn’t know much work it would be and how expensive. I wouldn’t have done it if I knew, but, I love it. And like you, researching, which can take so long, but when you find that little nugget it just makes it. I lose a lot of sleep. I don’t have much balance in my life, but I think my tooth just came out that I knocked out and my [inaudible] I got this from Amazon and glued it in on.
Gordon Crozier, DO
You’ll have to get to the dentist.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
..broken and the guy screwed it up, so I look like I’m mad. I’m not mad.
Gordon Crozier, DO
You still look good.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
I’m from LA, but awesome. Hey, thank you so much. Uh, talk to you forever and thank you for taking the time. I mean, I know so many people pulling out your coat and wanting your attention. So thank you.
Gordon Crozier, DO
You’re welcome. You take care.
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