Spa Day for Your Heart: How Far Infrared Saunas Can Reverse Heart Disease

Connie Zack

Thank you so much, Dr. Kahn. It’s so great to be here. I’m so excited to talk to everyone and talk to you.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

And I know you’re in the corporate now health world, and before that, you were in the corporate Procter and Gamble world. Just take us back, I mean, how did you and your husband Aaron, an absolutely amazing guy, take this leap into creating a field that, 22 years ago really didn’t exist? And just a little background story on that.

Connie Zack

Yeah, the quick story is my brother was really, really ill when I was working at Procter and Gamble, in the pharmaceutical side, and so was Aaron. And he discovered with the help of a holistic dentist, and when I talk about it, now that it’s been more than 20 years, it’s really amazing that there was even a dentist that, you know, knew about infrared way back then. But the dentist’s theory was that mercury was leaking into his body, and that the reason he was so sick, ’cause my brother was so, so sick. Very young. We couldn’t go on any family vacations because he couldn’t. He had vertigo, he had fatigue all the time. He was dizzy, he couldn’t go in an elevator. It was really bad. And this dentist recommended infrared. My brother did some research and found that there was really just one type of infrared sauna at that time and he bought it and it changed his life. And here I was at P&G studying science. You know, I was working in the cardiovascular division, as well as I also spent some time in the gastrointestinal division. And, you know, we were spending lots of money and time on research trying to help the body. And I saw, you know, this wavelength help cure my brother without any drugs and without any side effect. And so I decided to take, I love when you say leap, ’cause that’s exactly what it was.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

Well, Aaron at the time was not your husband yet, right?

Connie Zack

He was not. Yeah. Good memory. Wow.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

And you decided let’s just do a startup, when the words started wasn’t quite as common. And I mean, it could have turned out to be ended up working at a grocery store, and here you are running a big business, so.

Connie Zack

Well, you know, we were so passionate about, both of us, both Aaron and I were so passionate about wanting to do something in this world that made an impact and made a difference, specifically when it came to wellness and helping people live a healthier life. And we thought we were doing that at P&G, but reality is, you know, all of these pharmaceutical, there was side effects, right? And that really wasn’t curing anything. It was just kind of temporarily, you know, and you know this as a doctor, just kind of temporarily making a difference. And when we saw the cure, I mean, saw my brother, I mean, it changed his life, like literally changed his life. We thought, gosh, maybe this is what we’re supposed to be doing, and we just took it one day at a time. And actually, I worked both jobs for a while. Aaron quit and started, and then I worked at P&G, and we tried to get our company off the ground, and here we are today.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

And just to take a little side turn and come right back, the reason your brother healed his mercury toxicity, which is a real deal, whether it’s an environmental occupational exposure, whether it’s the more common fish and mercury silver filling exposure, is that infrared sauna has the potential to exit toxins from the body, a detoxification. There’s all kinds of science and woo woo about detoxification. But you’re sitting in front of a beautiful, beautiful Sunlighten infrared sauna. I think it’s the mPulse 3 in 1, which I use regularly in my home. Tell us a little bit just on this topic, detoxification, then we’ll get to the heart, and we’ll get to the technology in your saunas. But I mean, what does infrared sauna, why don’t we just break down, what is it to start with? I mean, you used the word wavelength, and why don’t we just start there and you go?

Connie Zack

Okay, so infrared is part of the massive light wavelength, right? It’s very, very long, and it’s just one small part. And within the infrared spectrum, there are three categories of light, and there’s near infrared, there’s mid and there’s far. And they work with the body in very, very different ways, which we could talk about later. But the important part is there are no harmful rays. This is really the part of the sun’s rays, without the UV, that are natural, safe and healing for all living things. Everybody, we receive infrared every day when you walk outside with the sunshine. Your body emits infrared. But what happened with my brother is he heated, you know, his body up with infrared, increased his circulation, which we’ll talk about with the heart. And the infrared is absorbed into the body, it works with the cells to detoxify the body. The difference between infrared, while I’m talking about it, and just regular, traditional heat is your body is hot because the infrared is going into the body and working with the body. Regular heat, like traditional heat, like hot saunas gets the air hot. So it’s a completely different experience with how the body works and responds to the heat.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

So these energy wavelengths of infrared sauna can actually penetrate through the skin invisibly. A few millimeters? What do we know?

Connie Zack

Well we know, so near infrared, near infrared goes the deepest. Far infrared doesn’t really go deep. It’s just it is absorbed with the body, with the water molecules, and that’s where you get the transformation, you know, is the absorption and the working with the light, working with the water molecules inside the body. Near infrared, which is delivered without heat. There is no heat, because it’s called near because it’s the closest wavelength to the sun. You can’t deliver near with heat. It would be way, way, way too hot. So you have to convert the energy into LEDs in order to receive it into the body, and that goes the deepest into the skin. So there’s benefits with near infrared. And then mid infrared, while I’m talking about the wavelength, is not as hot as near infrared. It can be absorbed. It’s hotter experience in the air than far infrared. Far infrared has the coolest experience in the air and actually is probably the most therapeutic of the three for detoxification specifically. Specifically for that benefit.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

Good news is if everybody listening is not a physics and engineering geeks, you just turn the sauna on and it does it for you. You don’t have to dial, like “Back to the Future,” the scientist and all the buttons. So you don’t have to do the gigawatts. It’s all there. You just turn it on. But one last comment on your brother. So he heated his body up internally. Most people sweat, maybe not profusely, it varies, and in that sweat can be concentrated toxins that eliminate, go take a shower when you’re done, eliminate from his body and gradually, gradually, gradually lower the burden, in this case of mercury his body, but there are other toxins. I remember reading a study a few years back that they actually took sweat droplets from people in the gym sweating, and they took sweat droplets from people in a sauna sweating, and there were more toxins concentrated in the sauna sweat than the gym sweat, which is also a good habit, of course, but it is accelerated. I don’t know if we know why that’s the case. It’s a deeper, more central core temperature rise with infrared sauna than with just exercise, I imagine.

Connie Zack

Right, it’s the way it works with the cells, the absorption into the body. And that’s why it’s so important if you’re trying to detox, but that’s one of your goals, you really want to have the temperature as low as possible, which is counterintuitive. People think, oh my gosh, I wanna sweat so I’ve gotta just blast myself. It’s not true because the hotter it is, the less of the energy that gets into the body and starts working with your water molecules. It’s all about it being absorbed and working with the water molecules and making everything vibrate and everything, you know, resonate and then pushing and transforming the cells. And we’re working with Dr. Hamblin right now who is, you know, such an expert on light therapy, and he’s the one that’s really helping teach us kind of the methodology and the why behind all these results that we’ve experienced for 20 years. You know, he’s just joined our scientific advisory board, and he’s helping kind of break down the value of each wavelength and why it does what it does.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

So that actually is a perfect segue to the next area I just wanna cover with you. Michael Hamblin, for those that don’t know, is a Harvard professor. Well published, many textbooks. And usually regarded as the expert on red light therapy, also known as photobiomodulation. And before we go there, I just wanna ask you, so people are aware of high heat steam saunas, maybe at their health club, maybe their shower does that. People are aware of dry, more Arizona like saunas, usually pretty darn hot. And now we’re concentrating on the third class infrared saunas. So just two minutes on the differences and maybe the scientific, you know, load of studies for this type of sauna you produce, infrared sauna versus the other two that I mentioned.

Connie Zack

Yeah, so we did, well, okay, before I get to the study. So just a quick 30 second difference is steam is moisture and hot, you know, hot, hot moisture into the air. A lot of people like it. It’s a personal preference. The traditional is hot air, typically temperatures 170 and above, 180, 190. Most people, Dr. Khan, cannot stay in a traditional sauna that long. And what we are learning still, you know, after all these years is so many of the benefits are correlated to the amount of time, and the more time, depending on what you’re looking for. There’s a lot of great studies right now on depression and mental health, and the longer that you can stay in there, the better that it works. The infrared works with your brain and it helps to alleviate depression. So the issue with the hotter the steam in the traditional, right, is that people feel like “I’m done.” 

And they also, it changes your energy level. A lot of people with traditional and steam, they get zapped and they just, they don’t have any energy. People, when you used infrared, it actually does the exact opposite. It restores your energy. I mean when I’m done, I’m just like, I’m ready to go conquer the world. So that’s the really quick 30 second difference. As far as studies, there was a study done in 2005 at University of Missouri, Kansas City on infrared versus. It was a double blind, placebo controlled, randomized trial. And so because it was placebo controlled, you couldn’t tell which one was which. And the infrared, with our Sunlighten technology, our product produced significant results, specifically as it relates to heart disease, which is, you know, one of why we’re here. It statistically significantly lowered blood pressure versus the regular sauna that had an element of infrared. It also had some traditional heat, but it didn’t have our specific type of infrared, did not do the same thing. So, you know, it does matter. You know, some people say heat is heat is heat, and you know, in some cases that is true. But when you’re talking about transformation, it does matter.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

And I wish we could go down the path you brought up rather amazingly about new data about infrared sauna and mental health and depression. We’ll have to do that for the Reverse Your Mental Health and Depression Summit.

Connie Zack

There you go.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

I wanted to circle back for a minute and say that is an extremely exciting field that people should read more or contact your company and get more information. But let me, one more on the technology of all this. A red light panel in your workout room, some gyms have it. It’s not an infrared sauna. How does that energy therapy, that Dr. Michael Hamblin has so elegantly researched, differ and overlap a bit? And can it be incorporated in an infrared sauna for a all purpose energy experience?

Connie Zack

Yes. So yes is the direct answer. It is very different. So here, let me try and make it really easy. So within the near infrared part, so forget the mid and far for a second, and that’s where the study was done on detox and heart disease and all that. So we’re gonna put that aside. But we’re just talking about the near infrared, the part of the near infrared spectrum that goes the deepest that I was talking about is in the invisible light category, okay? So that’s what I call photosynthesis. There’s tons of research studies you can, I mean I can send whatever. The next level, it starts to move over to the colored light, and the next unit of measurement over is red light, and then the next one is blue light. And red light, it has tremendous, you know, benefits for the skin, and can help with different other conditions. But it is not going to increase your core temperature because there is no heat. So there are benefits, and we can talk, we could talk forever about just the near infrared light category. There is a benefit to combining and adding. So in our Sunlighten sauna, the 3 in 1 we talked about, the ones behind me, we have the near infrared in their LEDs in the invisible light category. We are adding, that’s part of our plan is to add the red light, ’cause we know now that when you add red light to the invisible light, to the far infrared and the mid, when you have all those four, wow, like you have the entire spectrum. So that’s great. But they’re different. They operate in different ways, and the near infrared alone is not going to be able to, you know, by itself probably reverse heart disease, and increased circulation. And all the things that when you wanna mimic exercise, which infrared always try to make it easy, it’s kind of similar to exercise the feeling that you feel, that’s really with the far infrared category. Does that make sense?

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

It does, and in fact, we can look forward in the future to having a full spectrum infrared sauna with red light therapy incorporated. So I usually think of hot and red as hell, but that sounds like heaven.

Connie Zack

Exactly.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

So let’s turn to that term that I think most listeners have never heard. W-A-O-N therapy, Waon therapy. That is really an amazing database of research, and it’s really on target with the theme of this summit, reverse heart disease naturally. And tell us about the Japanese researchers going back probably three decades plus, and kind of just a little overview about real science. Everybody, this is not, you know, a trade magazine conversation. This is peer reviewed, published data. Every cardiologist, every internist, every person in the public can go online and read. And what they’ve developed in Japan, but we can incorporate it anywhere.

Connie Zack

Correct. It’s accessible, which is what I love about our product is you can, you know, you can use it anywhere. So what’s really interesting, I was thinking about when I was driving here and thinking about the summit is the reason really, one of the reasons that I decided to take the leap in the first place after my brother, I saw the transformation of my brother, is I started to do my own research on infrared and what data was out there. You know, I’m like, “Is this woohoo or what? What is this?” And the Japanese had done already, this was like you said three decades ago, they had done extensive research on infrared and how it works with the body. And the majority of the science at that time was all connected to the heart. All connected to the lining, all connected to how does infrared help with the heart. So Waon, that’s how you say it, correct?

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

Correct.

Connie Zack

Yep. So wa is soothing, I believe, and on is warmth. That it’s this soothing warmth therapy, and just another reminder, that doesn’t have to be hot, hot, hot, you know, to get the benefits. So the way they do it is you’re in there in an infrared sauna for 15 minutes, and then you come out, I think it’s for 60, if I remember correctly, and then you’re wrapped in like towels or blankets. And they have been doing this research, I mean for like you said, decades. And the findings are significant heart benefits, you know, lowering blood pressure, you know, helping increase circulation. I know there’s some really powerful ones with congestive heart failure as well.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

Yeah, incredible congestive heart failure data that, you know, they’re taking frail older people with heart disease. And I just wanna emphasize, the Japanese have done basic science. Why might far infrared sauna benefit a heart patient? ‘Cause it does seem to have a beneficial factor, and you were about to say the lining of arteries, the endothelium, and I think listeners to the summit will probably hear the word endothelium over and over and over, and nitric oxide production over and over. But they’ve done the basic science to show that it improves endothelial performance, and then they’ve transferred to humans and not healthy humans, sick humans with advanced disease, with weak hearts. And they’ve shown improvements in the blood values of congestive heart failure patients, the ejection fraction measure of the heart increasing. That is such a critical comment. We use drugs to do that. We had a interview with Dr. Mark Houston about metabolic cardiology supplements to raise the ejection fraction. But infrared sauna is in the medical literature as improving and you wanna improve your survival, improve your ejection fraction. 

They actually measured how many feet these people could walk, ’cause these were frail people. Partly the reason they wrapped them for 30 to 60 minutes and had ’em hydrate. Most people could probably skip that with a sauna like yours. But these were, you know, medical patients. And you know, in the cardiology literature in Japan, infrared sauna is as promoted as the pharmacologic and other aspects of heart recovery, or healing your heart naturally, not just with, you know, pharmaceutical agents. So pretty amazing. You mentioned a study in 2005 about blood pressure. So I just wanna make sure, as an important cardiovasc endpoint. So many people are looking for natural solutions to either minimize or maybe eliminate their blood pressure medication. So you have actual science there. I just saw a study in the last few months about, you’re going to exercise or you’re going to exercise plus jump in a sauna after exercise. 

Randomized study out of Finland. And blood pressure improvement in people with blood pressure problems was greater if you combine exercise with sauna therapy, to exercise alone. You can be a little cautious, stay hydrated. If you’re weak and dizzy, you know, always pay attention to the way you feel. But you got a powerhouse there behind you. So tell me a little bit, be proud as I would be if I were co-owner of such a great company, your husband Aaron, about why the technology, and I may botch this, solo carbon technology. Talk a little about EMF. People are concerned. Why are you different? And why don’t they have to worry about safety issues?

Connie Zack

Yeah, so I’ll do the solo carbon first, and this is something we discovered in 2005 when that study happened and we had that stat sig results, the significant lowering of blood pressure, as well as there was toxin removals, increased circulation, increase quality of life scores, versus the other one that did not deliver. And that’s when we started to do research of what is it about our heater, what is it about this that is so powerful? Because the other one had infrared, right? So why? So essentially, it’s that quantity and the quality of the wavelength that we’ve been able to patent and deliver into all of our heaters. And essentially, to make it really simple, we found a way to deliver the highest amount of far infrared possible in the most efficient way. 

So we have taken out all of the other wavelengths, all of the other, what I would call kind of noise in the air, and just focused on the highest quantity of the healing wavelength. So it’s really efficient, you know, when you’re in there, and you can get in there. Here’s another thing I really wanna mention, because I mean, Dr. Michael Hamblin has beat this into my head. He’s like, “You can start receiving the benefits right when you turn it on.” So you don’t, I think people sometimes feel like they have to turn it on and like, you know, wait. Let it get to a really hot temperature or whatever. That’s not true. The energy starts to work with your body right away, and he really encourages, you know, us to keep talking about getting people to get in there right away, and they’ll notice a big difference in how they feel if they just get in there when it’s a little bit cooler, ’cause then it really gets into your body faster, because it’s not competing with, you know, the air.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

My wife gets the first 30 minutes and I take the next 30 minutes. We may have to start joining ’cause we have a two seater, so we could be there together. But I usually there’s a dog in there for a few minutes too. They love it.

Connie Zack

Yeah, yeah our dogs too. So then the EMF, I didn’t answer that question. So we have done, I mean, when we first started we always made sure we did everything to protect the electromagnetic field. But since, I don’t even know, gosh, it was five or six years ago, we really put a lot of time into getting everything we can out, meaning no electromagnetic field being emitted inside the sauna. And then we tested it, we had a third party come in maybe two years ago just to show, you know, so it’s not us saying it, it’s somebody else testing our EMF at every level. Because mPulse, it has three wavelengths, there’s a tablet, you know, it’s a lot more complicated than some of our just one person like the Solo, which it’s easy to cancel out that EMF. 

The mPulse, it was harder. So we’re constantly working on getting it from virtually like really, really low to non-existent, which is where it is today. So people can know that, you know, when they’re in there, they’re safe. And then there’s also the easy button, like you said, but there’s an easy button for specifically heart health, so for cardio. So you go in there, so you don’t have to think about, how do I do this? Just go in there, press the cardio button if you’re looking for heart health benefits, and then it’s all done with the computer behind the scenes, so you don’t have to worry about it.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

There’s a weight loss button. Isn’t there like an anti-aging button?

Connie Zack

There’s the anti-aging, I love that one. It has a lot of near infrared. There’s a detox button, relaxation, and another one of my favorites is pain relief.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

And you know, it certainly is a great place to stack other self-help therapies. A lot of people meditate in a sauna. I call that sauna-tation. It’s like it cleans out your body and your stress. I mean, you can listen to gentle music. There are people that do a little yoga flow, depends on the size of your sauna. And other, you know, combined therapies to benefit even more. Just be a little careful with electronics. Your phone and your laptop, should you bring it in, will heat up pretty quick. So may be a place to leave those out and have a little refuge. I think a lot of us find our sauna is a safe place to hide as much as possible. Now, that’s great. And you know, since you brought it up, I mean your products are more expensive than some of the saunas, you go into a big-box store. I think you’ve talked about solo carbon technology being one reason. Very, very low third party tested EMF being another. I mean, you have the full spectrum, you have near, mid and far infrared. That’s, you know, extremely. Is that not only unusual, is that unique in the market? Or it’s unusual in the market?

Connie Zack

Yeah, it’s very unusual. Well, we have the patent on two or more wavelengths being in the same place. So that’s part of the reason that it’s unusual ’cause it’s patented technology. But that does make it a little bit more expensive. But we do have other choices. I mean, I am all about accessibility, like making sure that everybody has an option. And so, you know, if you can’t do the 3 in 1, we have smaller models that are far infrared. We have the Solo, which is what kind of started it all. We still have that little product.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

And that’s a little tunnel that works perfect in an apartment or a studio or a house. But it’s on the lower price spectrum, but you get all the benefits, so.

Connie Zack

Yeah, it’s fantastic.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

It’s not a group experience.

Connie Zack

No, not a group experience, but you know, there’s something valuable about being there and by yourself.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

Yeah, absolutely. A little bit like being a mummy, but it’s antiaging not accelerated aging. So yeah, and then I think I read in the news, you just built a big sauna for one of the sports teams in Kansas City?

Connie Zack

Yeah, the Kansas City Chiefs. That sauna is just beautiful. Yeah, we’re starting to do a lot more custom for athletic facilities, because a lot of these teams are seeing the benefit for muscle recovery. You know, are very own Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey and Chris Jones and a lot of the Kansas City Chiefs players had their own first, and they started telling their trainer, and they noticed the difference in their body healing faster. And so yeah, they invested in a large Sunlighten sauna for their facility. And Sporting KC has one too, which we’re really proud of.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

I mean, typically in your home infrared sauna, you’re sitting pretty close to the panels. If it was a larger device, is there a fall off at which if you’re six feet away, you’re not gonna get as much benefit as if you were a foot away?

Connie Zack

That’s a great question, and so it depends on the wavelength. It doesn’t really matter for the far infrared, which is the one again that provides the heat that detoxifies the body, that also clinically has been proven in 2005 to, you know, help with heart disease and lower blood pressure, increase blood flow. So that one, you’re perfectly fine to sit anywhere you want in the cabin. If you are looking for the near infrared benefits, the invisible light that we talked about that has no heat, that, you have to be right next to it. So when I was using near infrared myself for pain relief for when I was training for a marathon, I would go in there and I would literally put my foot and my knee right up next to the LEDs, and that’s where it needs to be. It does make a big difference. If you’re removed, like if you’re sitting and there’s an LED in front of you, you need to be like right up next to it. You know, when I used to take for the anti-aging program, I used to put my face right on the LED before we would go out to, you know, any type of function, and that’s where you’re gonna get the benefit. If you’re far back, you’re not.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

Right, I wondered ’cause we have a common friend who built some fitness centers in Detroit with infrared panels as you exercised as a group, and I wondered how far can you be? But if it’s far infrared, you could be on a bicycle, you could be doing yoga, you could be swinging a kettlebell and still receiving far infrared wavelengths that would penetrate into your body. That’s interesting. Very, very-

Connie Zack

Yes, as long as you have enough. You know, you couldn’t do it if it was just, if you were in a room and there was just one panel. You know, but if there’s enough for the far infrared part. Near infrared, no, you can’t. That’s a really big, that’s an easy, easy answer ’cause the data all shows. I mean, you have to literally be right next to the LED to get the benefit. Every step you move away from it changes the benefit.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

Okay, well, that’s very good. Any last few comments you’d like to contribute? I think I just wanna hit the highlights. A lot of research in animal studies in humans with infrared sauna, and the human research on cardiac conditions from high blood pressure, to atherosclerosis, to a very serious condition, congestive heart failure, cardiomyopathy. Waon, W-A-O-N therapy is remarkable and it’s still a secret. I mean, you know, very few cardiologists might mention that to a patient, and they might find that a fitness center in town has one of your devices they can access, or they might choose to purchase one. So these are hidden pearls. We talked briefly, you tantalize us about mental health and depression. We talked about blood pressure, specifically weight loss, anti-aging, detoxification, and then some new products you’ve got coming down the road. I mean that’s, I think, an exciting, you know, package of information you’ve provided. Any last pearls you’d wanna share? There doesn’t have to be but.

Connie Zack

Well, I just wanna emphasize again, because, you know, I’m so passionate about science, and for people who are listening who want peace of mind that they’re getting exactly what they’re looking for, especially when it comes to heart disease and helping, you know, to make their heart a healthier heart. We know for sure, we did, you know, I mean a study with a Sunlighten sauna. There’s not a lot anymore of product specific studies that have that type of an outcome. And so that was a really powerful study in 2005 that was double blind, placebo controlled, randomized. I mean, it was a robust study that delivered significant reduction in blood pressure, so ultimately, obviously helping to, you know, live a healthier heart. That’s a pretty powerful data point that was with a Sunlighten product. So that’s probably the one thing I would just, you know, leave people with is that peace of mind that it’s been studied with the product that’s not this product, but the technology that’s in this product behind me. So they know that it’s not just, you know, kind of some box with-

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

And if somebody wants to, they’re intrigued by all this and learn more about your company, it’s a simple URL, but why don’t you share it with us?

Connie Zack

Yes, Sunlighten.com. So S-U-N-L-I-G-H-T-E-N.com, or you can call us direct, or you can go to the website. We have a chat. We’ll meet you wherever you wanna be meeted, so.

Joel Kahn, MD, FACC

And all over social media, LinkedIn, and Instagram, and Facebook where you’re posting the science of everything we talked about. Well, thank you very much for your time on a busy day. Lovely Kansas City. Say hi to your wonderful husband. And you’re doing so much good. And I know all the listeners today either already knew this or are going, “Oh my god, I totally missed that this was real and science and not just about grandpa sitting in a hot tub,” like they remember in childhood. This is cutting edge and it’s a routine part of my integrated practice to bring up the therapeutic advantage for so many different conditions. So thank you, thank you. And I know people benefited from your wisdom and your hard work and your courage too.

Connie Zack

Well thank you so much for having me. It was an honor to be here.