How Gluten Can Destroy Your Brain and Nervous System

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah, I think it’s such an amazing field of research in the last really the last 20 years. I mean there’s been a number of tax, number of research studies done on diet right? Just generally how diet affects the microbiome and how the microbiome regulates the production of neuro chemicals like serotonin and dopamine and that in turn affects how we think and you know how we feel rewarded for our behaviors or how we feel depressed or how we might feel anxiety. And so there’s no shortage of research now connecting the microbiome and the food right to our thoughts and I think many, many now in the field of psychiatry and neurobiology are turning to the microbiome to say depression is actually a form of intestinal leakage right? Or of intestinal inflammation called neural inflammation. But it starts in the gut and I think that’s where really in my wheelhouse that’s where gluten really shines and comes in because we know there’s so many different ways that that gluten can impact the G. I. Tract but even not just gluten also grain as a whole right? For other reasons.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah absolutely. And so you know there’s a term called leaky brain and I know that you know I’ve talked about it in a lot of my discussions and so leaky brain you know a lot of people have heard of leaky gut right? That term came out I don’t know 8 10 years ago and became very popular in the functional medicine. Natural health world, leaky brain is kind of a new term that we’re starting to understand. And it may be a you know it’s a strong indicator, a strong link between issues going on with leaky brain and mood disorders. Increased neurological inflammation and degeneration. So can you elaborate on that some more?

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah. So if we use gluten kind of as an example, one of the things that we know gluten can do just just in people with gluten issues is it causes a disruption of the barrier of the cells in the G. I tract. Right leaky gut. And so think of it as microscopic pinholes that are being punched in the tube of the gut lining. And what happens next is that allows for poop to leak into the bloodstream. But even more it allows there are certain bacteria that live in our gut and when our gut is sealed not a big deal these bacteria will produce byproducts. One of the byproducts that’s been discovered is called lipo policy Sacha ride or LPS. And what happens with leaky gut is this product can basically leak into the bloodstream and it can affect the blood brain barrier. It can actually disrupt the blood brain barrier, opening up, opening up that barrier as well, allowing for things that shouldn’t be allowed into the brain, right? And this is where some of that neurological inflammation can come in. So if you back it up again, leaky gut allows for the progression of chemicals to leach across the gut barrier that can then in turn affect the G. I. Tract. And then and then even beyond that if we are going again deeper into gluten, the malnutrition that’s caused by gluten for so many, you know, the B. Vitamin deficiency, the mineral deficiencies, you know, can disrupt the body’s ability to repair, right? So if we’re talking about, you know, the blood brain barrier is A is a tissue right? It’s epithelial tissue that has a tight seal. And in order for that seal to be formed you need B vitamins, you need nutrients. And so with that malnutrition comes an inability to repair that barrier. And with that gluten damage comes the ability for that barrier to be broken down. So when you’re breaking it down, but then you’re malnourished to the level that you can’t rebuild it, then it becomes progressively chronic and it allows for inflammation to really set into the brain over longer periods of time. And so again, beyond depression beyond anxiety. What are we seeing? We’re seeing cognitive decline, right? If you will dementia and that there’s a lot of people think of Alzheimer’s and it’s a disease in the elderly, but we’re seeing that much earlier. And I know you’ve probably seen that in clinical practice where people come in and it’s not like they’re forgetting their spouse’s name, but they don’t have the ability to walk into their kitchen and remember why they walked in there, right? And it’s like, why did I come in here again? Or they go to the bedroom? Why am I here again? And that’s kind of the early onset of that, that brain fog early onset before it becomes full blown dementia, it becomes, I can’t remember what I was supposed to be doing here in this place, right? And so it just kind of slowly progresses over a period of time, the longer it’s allowed to perpetuate.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

That’s a really big issue, cognitive decline. Alzheimer’s neurodegenerative conditions in general huge issue, really growing. And you know, the what’s happening, the health of the gut is playing a significant role with that. Now, let’s go back to gluten, what is it about gluten? Because you know there’s I know there’s like alpha glia din which is you know, a protein component of gluten what is it about gluten that is contributing? You know that’s basically causing the leaky gut. I know that gluten for example stimulates zonal in its proteins, adrenaline release. Can you go into some of those kind of more of the mechanisms behind how this is causing leaky gut leaky brain?

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah, so for people with it’s important to know that for people with gluten sensitivity. So I want to be clear there because some people would argue that gluten is bad for everyone. I don’t know that we know that, I don’t know that we have enough research that and I mean I’m the biggest advocate of a gluten free diet probably in the world, but at the same time I think it’s important to delineate, you know, for somebody who has gluten sensitivity and and the way I define that is genetically if they have the genes the positive H.L.A. Genes that predispose them to react to gluten. From an immunological perspective then now we’re in trouble because what happens is gluten is a protein and really it’s not, we use the term gluten as a singular term, but really it’s a plural term, we should say glute tins because there’s as you mentioned a minute ago alpha glidden, which is a type of gluten found in wheat. And then there’s like sakhalin found in rye and horny and found in barley and Zane found in corn and origin and found in rice. There’s lots of different forms of gluten, I think. It was 2010, it was a group of researchers from Australia discovered it was like 400 new forms of gluten, 40 of them were more toxic than the gluten found in wheat. And so we have to look at gluten ones as a whole. And that’s why I say grain free as opposed as when I wrote my book. No grain, no pain. I didn’t write no gluten, no pain because the connotation that gluten is only found in wheat barley and rye is incorrect, but it is an FDA approved definition and globally it’s the accepted kind of definition for celiac disease. But again, we want to look at the family of gluten proteins. 

If you have the genetics for that reaction, what that means is when you subject your body to gluten of any kind or any form, your body is more going to perceive that gluten as an enemy the same way it would perceive a virus or a bacteria that doesn’t belong as a potential threat. And it’s going to create an immunological or an immune response against that gluten to try to neutralize it. And so there are many different types of immune response is one of them. It has to do with the interaction with something called trans glue laminates which is an enzyme secreted in the small intestine. And so what happens we get an autoimmune response against that and then that can create damage to the lining and villus atrophy which leads to leaky gut. There’s also the connection that Fasano discovered as you mentioned where Sandelin played a role the disruption of the gut barrier as a result of zonal in production and other bacteria can do that. 

To gluten is not the only thing. It’s not the exclusive in causing leaky gut but it is one of the most well researched foods or food proteins that we know can do it. So there’s the autoimmune damage to the intestinal lining which is actually celiac disease. Then there’s the up regulation of zonal in and then there’s the immunological response that can lead to antibodies of other varieties that can also damage the gut. But also then there’s an immune response that can lead to the production of chemicals called cytokines and interference that can also damage the gut. And then there’s now new research coming out showing that it can interact with a special receptor in the gut called a toll-like receptor or A. T. L. R. And that it induces inflammation through toll-like receptors. And so there’s all these different mecca and pathways and that’s the problem doc is that you get people go to their gi doctors and they get a celiac test, right? Which is really even the celiac testing is not specific because basically what they’re doing is a biopsy of the small intestine and and you know, you know the small intestines the surface of a tennis court, right? The surface area. So it’s like taking little microscopic fragments of a tennis court and saying this is the whole tennis court and you know obviously you could have damage on one side of the court, not damage on the other. And it’s the same with your intestines. So biopsies can give you a false negative as far as a diagnosis. But then you also have the blood tests that measure antibodies one of the antibodies being for only for Glidden. Well gluten is one type of gluten found in wheat. But then you have antibodies like transfer contaminates and it’s been widely shown that many people with gluten sensitivity do not produce trance contaminates antibodies. And so if you’re getting those types of tests done and then your doctor says, oh eat gluten all you want. You don’t have celiac disease, it can be a very misleading thing. And that’s again going back to genetic testing if you have the genetic markers that gives you the predisposition to react to those proteins in a negative way and that’s where it’s a preventative issue because gluten sensitivity is not a disease. 

It’s just in my opinion, it’s a state of genetics, you either have the genes or you don’t and if you have them and you eat gluten then your body will view it as an enemy and it will attack or try to neutralize it. And if you don’t have them not so much now, there are other aspects of grain beyond gluten that can cause immune responses and that’s different. Right? So that’s where some people, for example, when they buy bread and they react to it and then they go over to Europe and they say I didn’t feel as bad when I went to Europe. Well, glyphosate which is this chemical, you know, pesticide sprayed double sprayed on most grains today there’s also Atrazine, which is another chemical. And then there are also other components to grain. Like there are families of proteins and grains called amylase trips and inhibitors and serpent ends, which can cause immune responses that have nothing to do with gluten. There’s the fact that grains are a highly mold contaminated food and can contain mycotoxins which can make people sick. So there are other aspects to grain that damage the gut lining and can cause leaky gut gluten is just probably the most famous.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah, yeah, it’s a really good rundown. So in summary, celiac disease is really a late stage disease. Not an early stage diagnosis. You’re catching something way after many years after it’s developed in the body. and traditional medical testing when it comes to celiac and when it comes to you know gluten sensitivity in general is very limited because they’re only looking at a certain fam a certain group of antibodies for a certain group of proteins but not getting the whole wide spectrum of gluten sensitivity and really to go upstream. We want to look at the genes HLA D. Q. Genes which tell you if you have that predisposition or not. And you know you also talked about obviously certain enzymes like trans contaminates as well you know that can really factor in there and then that was gonna be one of my questions was a lot of people will say yeah I can’t eat wheat in America but I go to Italy and I’m able to consume bread and I feel great and that that could be a number of different factors, could be what’s being sprayed on the wheat could be you know the quality, perhaps there’s more mold and mycotoxins on the wheat that you’re eating here compared to there. So there’s a number of other factors but it’s not not necessarily the gluten component, is that correct?

Peter Osborne, DC

That’s correct? Yeah so there’s that’s why I always want to say differentiate whether or not you are gluten sensitive because if you truly are gluten sensitive don’t go eat the grain in Europe because the other thing we know about about gluten sensitivity is there’s a fourfold increase in risk of death if you don’t change your diet and you don’t want to you don’t you don’t want to give yourself the false impression that you can just go over there and gorge out on on pasta and bread.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah, that’s really good. And I mean, people definitely need to know that and understand that’s very, very serious issue. And so, you know, when we’re looking at gluten sensitivity, what percentage? I know you do a lot of this genetic testing, What percentage of the population has gluten sensitivity, jeans. And I know, you know, when you’re testing, you’re looking at a certain a certain population group that’s coming in that Has autoimmune conditions, has chronic health issues. So I’m sure the percentage is higher there. What would you say it is as a whole? And then what would you say it is for people that are dealing with chronic health conditions?

Peter Osborne, DC

My experience with chronic health conditions, it’s in the order of magnitude of 99%, at least. That’s just based on my own personal clinic, as far as globally. I think there are several researchers that have published on this topic, but if we’re looking at What is the suspicion of gluten sensitivity, you know, on the scale of magnitude of everyone, right? So like some researchers say it’s only celiac disease, therefore it’s only like that 1%, which I don’t agree with. And then, but there are some major papers published in the World Journal of Gastroenterology that closer estimated about 7%. They believe that about 7% of the global population has a gluten sensitivity issue. And then there are doctors like myself who do a lot of this testing and we have different ideologies about quantitatively how many people actually have this issue. I personally believe it’s closer to between 30 and 40%. S few others do as well. So, without actually testing everyone in the world, I don’t think we have an exact number that we can give. But I I mean, if we’re just going conservative estimation 7%. That means if you’re in a room and there’s six people around you, one of you are gluten sensitive and that’s a rather large number compared to how many people are actually trying to follow the diet.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah, without a doubt that is a large percentage of people. And so when we’re looking at some of the main symptoms, you know, a lot of people think it’s mainly digestive issues because of course they’ve heard about celiac disease, but there’s this, you know, growing about body of research looking at this condition non celiac gluten sensitivity. What are some of the hallmarks of that?

Peter Osborne, DC

Symptomatically, it’s very esoteric and it’s it’s very subtle until it’s not so like, as an example, many people will struggle with chronic inflammation and I see a lot of people with joint pain that just won’t go away, it was a joint pain that was caused by a non traumatic issue. So it’s like they injured their joint. It’s not like they strained or sprained something or, you know, we’re lifting weights and you know, and had an issue. It was just, hey, my joints hurt all the time and I don’t know why or my muscles are constantly sore and tight and I don’t know why. So, joint pain, muscle pain is a very common hallmark for many, which is the, you know, again, that’s why I wrote no grain. No pain was to bring more awareness to that. 

But then they’re also hormonal problems that we see a lot with females. So, disruption and cycle heavy PMS symptoms, especially in the area of anxiety and depression around the cycle. We also see a lot of neurological problems associated with gluten. So neuropathy, that’s numbness and tingling in the hands and, or feet. But also I would call neurological neuropathy of the brain being brain fog right, Which is lack of focus, lack of concentration, inability to remember things clearly. Word recall problems are very early onset symptoms. We see a lot of skin manifestation eczema can be a manifestation of gluten sensitivity for many. So, if you’ve got unexplained, eczema diagnosed for unknown reasons or purposes and you’re just rubbing the steroid cream on your body to try to keep it at bay. You want to look at gluten as a potential trigger. There are other autoimmune skin conditions. 

One that is directly linked to celiac disease is called dermatitis or Peta for miss. That’s less common. But it looks like almost like chicken pox. It’s like little blisters that raised on the skin. And then there’s also a psoriasis and vitiligo that have been linked to gluten sensitivity. Another really big one that people aren’t aware of is Hashimoto’s, Hashimoto’s is there are a number of research studies now that link or show that people that go gluten free their antibody levels completely plummet and drop and go away. So, if you’ve been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s based on, you know, thyroid proxies or any thyroglobulin antibody levels being elevated. You should ask your doctor to measure you for gluten sensitivity or do a trial gluten free diet and see if your thyroid numbers don’t dramatically improve because that’s a very, very big one where people just don’t realize they’re connected, right? They got the hypothyroidism diagnosis and they have no idea that there is an association with diet and hypothyroidism. Most endocrinologists, as you know, don’t train a nutrition and have no idea that there’s a correlation. So they just tell their patients to die, it’s not important. Just stay on the Synthroid for the rest of your life type deal. But those are some of the really common ones.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah. And that’s critical when we look at thyroid hormone that’s so important for brain function really helps turn on the mitochondria within the brain. So brain symptoms are oftentimes a sign that there’s issues going on with lower levels of thyroid hormone production and and most typically because of antibody damage to the thyroid tissue. And so when we look at gluten, when it’s affecting and causing neurological symptoms, is that mostly because it’s just driving up inflammation in the body or is it actually impacting, like is it actually a nerve toxin?

Peter Osborne, DC

Both, Gluten is a nerve toxin in their number of studies and I’ve seen this clinically where people are making antibodies against their own neurological tissue and those are measurable, those are things that you can actually measure. So that’s one aspect is that it drives the autoimmune process against the nerves against the brain and and the other is generalized inflammation. Of course, if you’re if you’re eating a food that causes or drives up inflammation, one of the primary hormones that your body will make in response to chronic inflammations cortisol which elevates blood sugar and causes application and now you end up with, you know, they call Alzheimer’s type three diabetes now, right, so you’ve got excessive blood sugar being dumped even if the diet is not high carbohydrate and that’s as a result of that excessive, you know, release of cortisol. So and a lot of doctors will treat it with more cortisol. 

So when they give a corticosteroid now, blood sugars going up even higher and blood pressure’s going up higher. And of course that increases the risk for neurological conditions as dementia but also stroke. And then there’s, you know, there’s other evidence showing that that just not necessarily looking at antibodies per se, but just looking at neurological conditions and gluten free diets. So one of them being seizure disorder and epileptics, you know, epileptics. There’s a lot of research showing that gluten free diets actually improve reduced seizure in patients that have been diagnosed with epilepsy. There’s a lot of research on keto, which a keto is a gluten free diet, right? So you’re, you know, you’re going basically you’re going gluten free, but you’re also going low carb simultaneously. And that that has a major impact on neurological healing and that can affect epileptic seizure disorder. Then you also have anxiety and depression. There a number of studies showing that when people go gluten free, a lot of times their anxiety diminishes or the depression goes away. And I think that, you know, some studies show there’s an antibody connection where there’s not immune process to that and other studies just simply recognize it through inflammatory markers like crp elevations and gluten free diet. So I think I think it’s probably a little bit of all of the above and my experience it is and that’s why I try to be as thorough and measure as much of this as I can so that I can be as objective about understanding why something is happening to a person as opposed to not.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah for sure. And you also talked about how gluten sensitivity can cause nutrient deficiencies. You mentioned B vitamins earlier. What are some of the other major nutrient deficiencies that are associated with gluten sensitivity?

Peter Osborne, DC

You know that the top five that I have seen over the years? Number one is iron. So iron deficiency you know leads to oxygen deprivation to the brain and it can cause clouded thinking and anxiety and trouble sleeping. So irons number one, number two is vitamin B. 12. Number three is zinc, Number four is vitamin D. And number five is omega three. Specifically E. P. A. I see a lot more E. P. A deficiency from the Omega three family than any other type. And again E. P. A regulates inflammation. Vitamin B 12 regulates myelin production around nerves. So you can get and rob the anxiety, depression with that iron deficiency can cause very similar symptoms to iron deficiency. And then you have vitamin D. Deficiency and vitamin D. Is one of the major immuno regulators of the body. So a lot of times people with vitamin D deficiency have predispositions toward developing autoimmune disease against all of their tissues, not just anyone in particular. And then with omega three. Again the omega three regulation just purely regulating inflammation and quantitatively how much inflammation occurs as a course of daily action because we all make inflammation to regulate you know maintenance and repair of cells. It’s when that inflammation is higher than our ability to heal and repair it where we go into a repair deficit. So those are five key nutrients that I see on a very regular basis in people with gluten sensitivity.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah. And that’s interesting vitamin D. D. Efficiency. Now obviously a good percentage of our population is vitamin D deficient and we get it naturally from the sun. You know we obviously get a little bit from our nutrition from egg yolks from organ meats, things like that. But very very small amounts. Mostly we’re getting it from the sun. So are you saying that was it the vitamin D. Deficiency that perhaps increased maybe the inflammatory reaction somebody of gluten sensitivity had or was it that some that the individual that had gluten sensitivity has the genetic markers and then also is consuming gluten, increasing inflammation in their body. They’re not able to absorb the same level of vitamin D. That they would if they were on a healthier diet more genetically congruent diet and they were exposed to the same amount of sun.

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah. So I mean vitamin D. Is a fat soluble vitamin, right? And one of the hallmarks of celiac disease is fat malabsorption, we look at a number of different fat malabsorption markers in the stool to identify whether or not that’s actually happening. And so vitamin D. Being fat can be affected in that way. It’s also important to know that many people with gluten have liver gallbladder issues. And so what happens if they’ve had their gallbladder removed, it’s also gonna affect their fat absorption of vitamin D. From the diet. So they may have been affected in that way. But the other reason I speculate that vitamin D. Deficiency is so great in these patients is mainly because they’re inflamed they’re eating food that is inflaming them. And so they are using more vitamin D. In an effort to put the fire out in an effort to regulate the immune reaction. And so there it’s not even necessarily, they may not be getting enough. It’s just that their demand for it goes up to try to put out the fire.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah that makes sense. Another nutrient that I commonly see deficient is magnesium as well. Are you seeing that associated with gluten sensitivity?

Peter Osborne, DC

I do, it’s a very common one as well. It’s just those were my top five ones we see more of than anything else.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah magnesium deficiency plays a critical role when it comes to brain health neurological function you know, so there’s a lot of issues with that as well.

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah, no doubt. I mean I see the gambit, I mean when we do our tests for nutrition, I mean we’re usually testing all 40 essential nutrients and everyone that walks through the door and so it widely varies, right? That’s one thing I’ve learned is that you could guess at saying everybody needs X, Y or Z. And even if they were the most common, you could be wrong a lot of the time because it varies so widely. And I think that just base is basically, it boils down to biochemical individuality. You know what, what one person may suffer with as a deficiency may not be the same as somebody else. And for a very various number of reasons.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah, for sure. Now when it comes to naturally healing the body when it comes to neurological conditions, somebody has gluten sensitivity. Is it enough to just go on a gluten free diet?

Peter Osborne, DC

Sometimes? Yeah. I mean I’ve had people write in to me, Hey, I read your book and it changed my life. My neuropathy went away. I had it for 20 years. I get letters like that on a regular basis. So whether or not they were supplementing, don’t know, they weren’t forthright with all of the things they were doing, but people reach out to me all the time. Just just saying how much diet changed, improved or impacted it. And I’ve seen it both ways. I’ve also seen cases where we had people with severe neuropathy, they change their diet, it didn’t go away. And it was because they had developed such a severity of nutritional deficit that we really had to supplement through that to get them over the hump. And in some cases because the damage to the G. I. Tract was so extensive, we had to supplement them with much higher doses to create passive diffusion absorption through the G. I. Tracts so that they were capable of getting the nutrition that they needed in order for them to just heal from the previous years of gluten induced damage.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah, that makes sense. And I know in your book, no grain, no pain. You put people on a grain free diet and so a lot of people will go on a gluten free diet and they’ll look for foods that are labeled as gluten free. But a lot of those foods obviously have corn, they have different grains rice and made rice is very common what’s considered a gluten free alternative. So that’s, you know, that’s, we’re finding that in a lot of the foods and then also you had mentioned how a keto diet can be really helpful. Natural, really a ketogenic diet. Originally how it was taught was gluten free. But now a lot of food manufacturers are actually making keto approved foods and they’re using wheat gluten as one of their top ingredients. So you really do have to be careful. You can’t just look at a label that says gluten free.

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah, I know. Unfortunately anytime a diet reaches mass popularity, the food manufacturers get ahold of it, warp it manipulated and create garbage for the rest of the world. Unfortunately, a lot of those people who aren’t aware continue to struggle, they think they’ve gone on a healthy diet that should have resolved a lot of their issues and they’re still struggling. I see that a lot and people that come to me who following keto and they’re buying a lot of the keto product as opposed to just eating real foods.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah, for sure. And in your book, no brain, no pain. You have actual meal plans, right? So you set up meal plans, you know, that really help people and guide people through this grain free diet. What are some of the big challenges that people have when they first start coming off of grains, like as far as, you know, just kind of changing out what they’re normally eating and what kind of good replacements can they make?

Peter Osborne, DC

I think the biggest challenge is analysis paralysis, They just don’t know what to eat. So they need a reference a resource to kind of give them recipes and ideas. And the other challenge to that is that they don’t cook their own meals, like they eat out a lot. So it’s, it’s like, okay, you gotta worry about cross contamination, you gotta worry about hidden gluten because those can be deal breakers for a person’s recovery. So I think it’s the analysis paralysis of I can’t eat out. I’ve got to focus on what I can make, so what can I make? Right? And so it’s a learning curve of recipes. One of the things that we do at gluten free society is I have a, have a chef that works for us and he’s making new recipes all the time and we just put him up at gluten free site, it’s free gluten free recipes, you just click on that tab and you can pull up hundreds of food ideas and recipes ideas to help you to help you navigate through through that aspect of it. 

I’d say the other biggest challenge psychologically is dealing with family and friends who don’t understand that a little bit is not okay, right? 20 parts per million of gluten, that’s a breadcrumb can cause inflammation for 2 to 3 months. And so if you’re trying to recover from a chronic autoimmune disease and every weekend you get a gluten bomb on your cheat day, you’re not gonna make it very far, the diet is not going to really reap a lot as much benefit for you as you would have hoped. So, you’ve got to really be clear around family and friends that, you know, you’ve got to stick to the diet and you need their support. Otherwise it becomes a constant battle against the very people who love you who just want you to have one little bite or try, you know, especially around the holiday season, you know, just try one little cookie. It won’t hurt you, you know?

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s amazing. One little breadcrumb for certain individuals that are very gluten sensitive can cause a cascade of inflammation and damage in the system for up 2-3 months.

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah, I mean that the half life of a gluten antibody is like well ranges from 30 to 60 days. That means, what that means is when you eat gluten, you make antibody against it. And that antibody creates a complex that damages your tissue. That’s part of what causes the inflammation. And that antibodies half life, meaning it takes half life is the the half the time that is required for your body to break it down. Right? So the half life of the gluten antibodies 30 to 60 days. So if you’re lucky at 30 days, you’ve gotten rid of half of that level of antibody damaging antibody. If you’re not lucky, it took you maybe closer to 60 days. Right? And then and then that’s just half of it. You still got the other half still in you that you have to still metabolize out. 

And that’s that’s why it’s so important to know that because of fire, which is what inflammation is. It’s a chronic fire, just like a campfire, it’s very hard to start one. But it’s very easy to keep it burning. What do you do for a campfire? You just have to throw a little fuel on it periodically and it will keep burning. And that’s what people do is they think that that sunday meal or that little cheat here or there. It they’ll be okay with it and they will be better avoiding gluten most of the time. Don’t get me wrong, like, you know, 95% less gluten is better than then nothing. But if you’re really trying to overcome auto immunity, remember that that process takes about 18 months. And if you keep agitating your immune system once a week, it’s, it’s gonna take you closer a lot longer if you ever even do overcome it. My experience, 18 months is the quick side of of a recovery. Three years is the noncompliance side of recovery.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah. Now what are some tips for people that are eating out? Maybe they’re traveling, things like that? What are some tips? What can they look for when it comes to restaurants? What should they say to their waiter, their server when, when they’re ordering their meal.

Peter Osborne, DC

I think keep it simple meat and veg right cooked separately? I don’t want any, I don’t want to cook near the breaded stuff. You know, ideally if you’re having to eat out, you would call ahead and figure out which restaurants might cater more to lifestyle, which restaurants are gonna serve organic. I always say, go eat where there’s a chef, not where there’s a cook, there’s less mistakes. Chefs take more pride in their food and cooks are generally just a hired gun that are gonna cook whatever recipe that is, you know, on the menu. The other reason I say it where there’s a chef and not a cook is because chefs use real ingredients and cooks generally use food that’s deliver from the back door from Cisco. And if you know that big food conglomerate, you know, the chicken breasts are delivering is probably more likely going to be chicken parts that are glued together by meat glue. And so meat glue has actually been shown to irritate people with gluten sensitivity. So you could eat what you think is a chicken breast, that’s actually like a chicken hot dog. If your chicken breast tastes like a hot dog, you know, you’re getting meat glue. And that’s something that will irritate or exacerbate a celiac or gluten sensitive individuals. So eat where there’s a chef call ahead that way you don’t get there and you’re to hold up and a lot of people get embarrassed. I don’t want people to fuss over my diet needs, we’ll call ahead, look at the men, you know what you’re gonna order and that way when you get there. You can be concise with the waiter and kind of get more of a feeling as to whether or not even trust the food. The other thing you, you could do two and one of the things I do is, I take a food suitcase. I mean I’m packing beef jerky sometimes dried food. It’s things that are easy to have a longer shelf life that if I get in a bind and I’m gonna do some fasting on that vacation. You know what I mean? Like I’m gonna do a little bit more fasting and I’ll have some of my own food that I know I can trust that I’ll eat and if I come across a restaurant or two here or there that I know is gonna serve organic fair and give me this some options with where I feel comfortable. I’m not getting massively cross contaminated. I might patronage those types of places.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah, I agree. I think it’s really important to do some research on the front end and that will save you a lot of time. And then also just make sure the server knows that especially if you are somebody that has a significant gluten sensitivity. Just let them know on the front end. Like, hey, I have a significant gluten sensitivity. I really need to make sure that the food I’m consuming doesn’t have it in it. And you know, they’ll obviously scramble around to make sure that you know that they’re cooking your food kind of separate from other people. Because the last thing a restaurant wants is you know an ambulance showing up at the front door is not good for business. So yeah they’ll make amends for you there now. What are some key supplements that you find especially on the front end? Like somebody that maybe that’s had maybe a diagnosis with celiac right that or somebody that’s just you know is dealing with gluten sensitivity and they’ve got a lot of gut issues. What are some of the main supplements on the front end that you think can really support that person as they’re initiating the healing process.

Peter Osborne, DC

If we’re guessing without tax guessing Hands down a multivitamin. A high quality multivitamin because you want to just get kind of a shotgun of everything coming into you because of the years of gluten induced malnutrition. Number two in omega three fatty acid with a higher concentration of E. P. A. Than D. H. A. Not cod liberal. Because if you do god liberal you get a ton of D. H. A. But you won’t get hardly any E. P. A.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

What ratio do you like? Like a 3 to 2 kind of E. P. A. To D.H.A.

Peter Osborne, DC

Ratio 3 to 2 or even to to to something closer to equal but not not D. H. A heavy and then the other thing that I would suggest is B. 12. I mean just based on the level of of deficiency, the commonality of the deficiency because it’s super common actually, gluten in a number of studies has been shown to damage parietal cells in the stomach which destroy the ability to make intrinsic factor. And so B. 12 being you know needing intrinsic factor for its absorption, it’s kind of got a unique mechanism in regards to that. So B 12 is very important as well. Other supplements that I would suggest a good gluten busting enzyme. I have something called gluten shield that we use that is designed to degrade gluten. Should you be eating out or going through your learning curve. And let’s say you got cross contamination, you didn’t know but you took the enzyme on the front end of the meal that just basically help protect you and break that gluten down that potential for accidental exposure is very important. 

And then, you know beyond those things, a lot of people with gluten sensitivity have a lot of damage to the G. I. Track. And so a good quality digestive enzyme might also be a good idea for those individuals just so that they can start digesting and absorbing the nutrients from the real food, the non gluten food that they’re gonna start eating. And that way because I’m a food first kind of a guy. I think you’ve got to have food right supplements are supplemental to good food, you can’t eat bad food and take a bunch of supplements and expect that your health is going to be superior. So the enzymes themselves at the front end can be very very effective and helpful at helping you get the most out of the real food that you’re eating.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah for sure. And then you know there’s some gut soothing agents to that can help be supportive like things like L. Glutamine glycerin, ated licorice root, aloe vera. Are you a fan of things like that?

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah. Actually I have a formula with a lot of those different use telekinesis to kind of help code and line the G. I. Tract for those individuals who are really struggling in that way. And then another strategy to, and I know you’re aware of this one is fasting fasting is one you know one of the quickest ways to help the gut. He’ll non supplemental E. Is just letting it rest right? Don’t irritate an already irritated gi tract. And sometimes the act of eating itself is the irritant when the gut is trying to recover. So that can be helpful and then vitamin C. Is one of my favorite. One of the things I’ll do if somebody gets gluten exposure. One of the things we have them do is flush out their bowel with high doses of vitamin C. And the way we do that is it’s basically it’s it’s and we do it in a powder form. So don’t try this with pills. If you’re using a vitamin C pill, you’ll be miserable. Use a powdered form, but six g of vitamin C every 15 minutes mixed in three ounces of water on an empty stomach of course, and stay home Like because you’re gonna start going to the bathroom and going to the bathroom aggressively, it’s like prepping for a colonoscopy. So if you’re like trying to go to work and do this, you’re gonna be back and forth to that bathroom, you might have an accident. So do this if you’re staying home but flush flushing the bow out with vitamin C. Does two things. One it helps flush out any gluten. You know that you were exposed to number two. There are studies that show that vitamin C. Actually, there there are cell studies that show that without vitamin C, gluten damaged guts have a harder time healing. So saturating the G. I. Tract with vitamin C. Gives it a nutrient that’s really quite beneficial at at healing the damage. And so that’s why it’s one of my favorite, you know, things for people to do post accidental gluten exposure to help them get back on track.

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Yeah, that’s a really great tip. And this has been a fantastic interview with Dr. Osborne, so many great great tips here and so many great, such great information when it comes to really understanding gluten sensitivity and I know you’ve got your book, no grain no Pain, which is fantastic book that I recommend. All the listeners go out and get no grain no pain. Where else can people find out more about you? I know you have the gluten free society, working people access all your resources there.

Peter Osborne, DC

Yeah, gluten free society dot org or dot com. Either one. You know, we have, we have tons of resources, thousands of videos and articles that you can read and just type in what you’re looking for, related related to gluten and you’ll probably find an answer if you don’t email us because we want to make sure that we have all the resources on the net. And if there’s something that we’re missing that you need an answer to, we wanna, we wanna be able to help you with that. And then number two, we have a master class. So] blue technology, the master class. And if you go to gluten free society, it’s free. You just sign up for it. It’s absolutely free. You can take it, it’s a 14 hour long master class. It will teach you everything you ever wanted to know and more about how to go gluten free the right way

David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS

Awesome. Well again, thanks so much for your time, your expertise here, always enjoy our conversations and guys definitely go out, check out no grain, no pain. Check out gluten free society and check out his master class. We’ll see you all in a future presentation. Be blessed everybody.