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How Mold Toxins Destroy Your Sex Life & Relationships

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  • Discover how mold toxins might be the unseen culprits affecting your libido
  • Understand the role of detoxification in enhancing communication in relationships
  • Get actionable tips to rejuvenate your sexual life
Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Hi, everybody. Dr. Diane is here. Welcome to another amazing interview at the Sexual Health Summit. I’m excited to bring on our next guest mold expert. We’re going to talk about mold and energy and how all of this ties into sexual function. Evan Brand, welcome to the summit.


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

Thanks so much for having me. This is a huge problem that nobody wants to talk about. I’m glad that you’re doing this because, in the clinic, I’ve seen over 2000 clients in the last decade. One of the questions on my intake form is, Is your libido adequate? 99 out of 100 of these adults that take that say no. Occasionally, you’ll get a man who’s like, Yep, no problem. But in terms of females, at least 90 out of 100 say their libido is not where it used to be. then, of course, that creates a lot of marriage tension. I gave a talk recently for Mosaic. They just got bought out by Great Plains. I run more organic acid testing than almost anyone, and so they wanted me to do a talk for them. I titled The Talk Mold and How Mold Leads to Marriage Dysfunction or How Mold Leads to Divorce. I painted this picture, which I want to talk about with you today, to show how we can impact the issue of a health issue and, of course, your sexual life. then, of course, affecting your marriage, your relationships, how you treat your kids, and how you treat your spouse. If you are having sexual dysfunction, I see it affects your daily life, too. How confident are you in your job? It could directly impact your income, your career, and everything else.


Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Yes.  There is so much you said there that will spin off in this, in our time together today around, exactly what you said around. It’s not just about sexual function. It’s about how that impacts relationships, confidence, well-being, and how you deal with stress. great intro. We’re going to unpack all of that, but before we do, can you just tell everybody a little bit about who you are and how you got into this world of mold, how you started making the connections in your clinical practice with the thousands of people you’ve treated, and how you started making the connections between mold and sexual dysfunction? I know you mentioned your intake form, but just talk to us a little bit about who you are, why you’re passionate about this, and beyond your intake form, what else helped you make those connections between mold, toxicity, and sexual dysfunction?


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

Sure. Well, like most of us, we’re all wounded warriors. We didn’t do this because we wanted to. We did it because we had to. Throughout my whole twenties, throughout business school, and in college, I was suffering. I was diagnosed with IBS. Then I also had anxiety issues and depression. I had terrible skin. My sleep was a wreck. I just felt awful. I bounced around from doctor to doctor. I got a few prescriptions written. I never filled them for acid-blocking medications and antispasmodics for my gut issues, and not once was nutrition brought up. So this was 2007, eight, nine. then I came across Paleo, got rid of grains, got rid of gluten, got rid of dairy, way better, not fully better. Then I met more friends in the natural health space. I started a podcast in 2012, which is a long time ago in the health podcast world, and then I started interviewing people, and every time I interviewed someone, I’m like, I’m learning, I’m getting these golden nuggets from these interviews. Like, it’s incredible. So then I got into functional medicine testing. I ran a stool test. I found out I had parasitic infections. Then I treated those and got rid of them using herbs. Then I had H. pylori. A very common bacteria damage the parietal cells, reduces stomach acid, creates a lot of malabsorption, a lot of nutrient deficiencies, and causes neurotransmitter problems. It can affect your sexual health as well because now you’re getting robbed of your nutrients. I had to fix that infection. Then my wife and I started having kids.

We built a brand new house. We had mold in the crawl space, didn’t know about it, started waking up dizzy every day, and had blood pressure problems. A good buddy of mine is Dr. Jack Wolfson; he’s a cardiologist. I texted him about my issues. I’m like, Jack, I’m dizzy. My blood pressure is going crazy. He texted back one word in all caps. Mold. I thought, There’s no way it’s a brand new house. He’s like, Find it. We found it, fixed it, remediated it, and moved out. Ever since then, clinically, I’ve transformed from being the gut guy because I was primarily helping people with SIBO, Candida, parasites, and other digestive issues to now having this whole new can of worms, which was mold toxicity. So I went and looked back at all these cases where I had suffered, or maybe we had success, and then the people relapsed. Let’s say we fix their gut on a three-month gut protocol, and then three months later they’re like, Hey, I’m back in trouble again. Well, we would just rotate herbs. Let’s try this probiotic instead. Let’s do this gut-healing support. You need more adrenals; let’s throw in some more liver-up your thyroid Zoloft. Let’s work on antibiotics. But then we were missing this big smoking gun, which is the mold. Now I zoom in on that. I still fix the gut issues and the mood issues, and all of that works with a ton of children as well. But now I’ve had to have, like, pretty controversial conversations with people because there is this issue where the wife is sick and the husband doesn’t believe the wife thinks she’s crazy, so now she’s pissed off. She’s not going to want to have sex. She’s mad at this dude. He doesn’t believe her. She’s been suffering for ten years, and he doesn’t believe her. I’m now almost like a therapist in a way, because I’ll get this stubborn, skeptical husband on these phone calls, and I’ll point out the lab testing that we ran. I’ll say, Look, here are the Petri dishes that we’ve tested in your home.

Your master bedroom has 20 colonies of Aspergillus. Also, your wife’s levels of ochratoxin, which is a mold toxin that comes from Aspergillus ochra, are very damaging to the cerebellum. It affects the endocrine system. Most mold and toxins would be classified as endocrine disruptors. Most of them are highly estrogenic. There is a big link between excess mycotoxins and breast cancer and colon cancer. These are very toxic substances that people breathe in water-damaged buildings. I take this skeptic husband. I’m going to look at your wife’s levels. This is why she’s anxious. We pull up her organic acid, and we look at her brain chemistry. This is why she’s depressed. This is why she has no sex drive. This is why she’s exhausted all the time. It’s not because she’s getting older. It’s not just because of the kids. It’s because of this. So luckily, I’ve saved many marriages by using the labs, too. Then illustrate what’s happening under the hood. Most people, when they think of sexual health, think only of emotional problems. Well, it’s an issue with me and her. She gained weight after having babies. She doesn’t feel as sexy, or he’s got a beer belly, or he’s got erectile dysfunction, as we think of these surface-level things. But to be able to paint a picture of mold exposure in your basement driving the erectile dysfunction or the lack of pleasure and intimacy, like, that’s an important thing that nobody’s figuring out.


Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Yes, it’s an important issue. There are so many things you just said that I want to tap into and make sure that we’re emphasizing. One, this thing that you’re bringing up around new homes, and I see this with so many of the clients I treat around new homes, doesn’t mean they’re safe. Just because it’s needed does not mean anything as far as mold or no mold, like we don’t; it’s like the body. We don’t know what’s there until we look under the hood, as you’re saying. That’s one point that you made that I think is important to overemphasize, because I just see that so commonly, people just can’t wrap their brain around it, and another point is that in getting to these roots from a standpoint of what you’re saying around mold and marriages, that is beyond some of the basics. Let’s go a little bit deeper there. If somebody has mold and they have erectile dysfunction, let’s tease that apart a little bit more in detail. What’s happening here? People understand what’s happening more mechanistically, where mold is leading to erectile dysfunction. Can you go deeper into that?


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

Sure. Yes, there are several mechanisms. The first step is easy. It’s the neurochemistry part of it. If you just look in PubMed and type in ochratoxin and dopamine, all the literature is there, which says that mold toxin is present. Just to be clear about what we’re describing here, you’re in a water-damaged building. Okay. This may have had a plumbing leak. The kitchen faucet and the toilet overflowed, the bathtub and the shower pane were leaky, there was a roof problem or the wedges, excess humidity, and over time, even just access humidity can build up in the home and create problems because our houses are built tight. We have good windows and good doors. We don’t have many drafts. There is no dilution to the pollution that’s building up in the home. Even just moisture can create this issue. As these molds grow, they want to stake out their territory. They essentially farmed out these mycotoxins. Mycotoxins think of them as mold farts, and you breathe them in as innocent bystanders, and they get stored in your body; they hang out in the bile. There are other places in the body where mold hangs out mycotoxins specifically, but ochratoxin is probably the most common one, and it directly damages the part of the brain that helps make dopamine.

Now, on organic acid testing, you’ll see the low dopamine. You’re going to see a symptomatic lack of drive, a lack of energy, a lack of focus, and a lack of concentration. They may get bored easily. They may have addictions. Like they’re just flipping through every social media app, seeking that hit, or they’re addicted to coffee, stimulants, sugar—who knows? Gluten-free cookies, and alcohol—it could be something to try and self-medicate the brain chemistry issue. The other mechanism would be nitric oxide. Mold directly affects blood flow, and it can create what we call hypercoagulability, where there is a lack of blood flow to the extremities. A lot of these people will report cold hands, cold feet, and a cold nose, as well as weak or nonexistent erections if you think of that as a blood flow problem. This is why Viagra and some of these other drugs work with the vasodilation effect. If we have that problem with mold, I’m not going to put you on Viagra because I don’t prescribe it. But what I may say is, well, let’s do a blend of some amino acids; let’s throw in some citrulline, some arginine, or some other things to act as a natural vasodilator to get the blood flow back to your hands, to your feet, and to your privates so you can have a sex life.


Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Yes. Thank you. There is so much to be said there. One thing I want to emphasize is one of the things I see so commonly. I imagine you do too in your client population. We share a lot of similar types of people from the old world, like ochratoxins and aspergillus. These types of toxins are only found in food because there is so much literature out there. That is like, oh, these are food-derived toxins. You can see studies on this. So there is this misunderstanding that you’re helping to show people that’s so important around us like this is in our environment. This is not just a few dry things, and it’s not the food deprivation that’s making people sick. It’s when they’re breathing in the mycotoxins. So that helps to show that. one of the things, and there are a few different things I’m going to spin off from what you said because it’s important. But one of the things I want to take a step back because I know when people listen to these summits, as I know you’ve done, hundreds of these talks, we have our practitioners, we have our summit junkies, tend to listen, and I’ve listened to a bazillion of these. Then we have other people who are probably hearing this for the first or second time. You’ve talked about the organic acid test about this problem a couple of times now. Can you talk a little bit more about what the organic acid test is? Just a little bit more around, like the utility of that, and in particular in this world of sexual health that we’re talking about here?


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

Yes, let’s look at one because the picture is worth a thousand words. We’ll look at this as a fun case study. This was a little boy who was three years old when he came to me, and he was one of five children. The mother had tree roots that had busted through the foundation in her basement. So when it rained, they had water in their basement, and the whole family was sick. But this little boy was on the verge of getting kicked out of school. He was the top priority because the teachers were sending notes home. The mom works full-time for the government. She’s like, I cannot quit this job. I need my kids in school. Fix him. 

We ran some labs, and then one of those who ran the organic acids, which is a fasted urine sample, woke up in the cup, got this back to the lab, and with that, we got about 75 pieces of data from it. On page one, this is my favorite page because it shows the biggest smoking guns of all. In this case, you’re looking at these little triangles. folks that are watching along, you’ll see the little triangles. Hopefully, they’re going to be somewhere in the middle. Too low is sometimes an issue, but too high is a problematic situation, meaning these acids in the urine are too high, and we link those to certain molds. In this case, this poor boy, this number two right here, a long word, 5-hydroxymethyl-2-furoic acid. This indicates this poor guy. He’s had so much Aspergillus exposure that he’s now colonized. Now this kid needs antifungals up his nose. He needs antifungals in his gut. We can use herbs. I’ll show you the result of how we fixed it down here. Arabinose. This is a gas that is produced by Candida. We know this poor boy’s got massive Candida overgrowth. In this whole section down here, more long works, hydroxybenzoic, hydroxyhippuric. These are bacterial overgrowth markers. We know this kid has a bacterial overgrowth problem, too, down here four crystals high. We assume he may have even had Clostridium difficile, which is a problem. It kills many people from diarrhea, and hospitals battle antibiotic-resistant strains of C. diff.

It’s something not to mess around with. Luckily, herbs don’t have that problem. I don’t get freaked out when I see them. But this was a mess. This opened up a whole new potential for this kid to heal because he was doing speech therapy, behavioral therapy, and all these other types of therapies. And guess what? None of that was the root cause. He could have done that for 20 years and never fixed a mold problem. That’s why I love the OAT test because you get a really deep look into what’s happening underneath. Now, in the case of someone who has sexual dysfunction, a lot of times these women primarily talk in memes, but they know we’re somehow a little more protective. Maybe the extra testosterone helps protect us against this toxicity. So, the women typically have lower testosterone, and I believe they succumb to the toxicity more so. But in these females, we’re often going to see mitochondrial issues, too. You get a good window into that here. If these markers are high, that indicates some level of toxicity to the mitochondria, which could be from things like vaccines that have heavy metals or, if it were some chemical exposure living next to a farm, like agricultural issues or not eating organic, these pesticides can damage the mitochondria. Then there’s a woman who’s tired and has no sex drive. We’re going to look at this, and we’re going to factor that into brain chemistry here, too, so we can take a look at dopamine and serotonin. These are beautiful windows into what’s happening, and it’s not a perfect match. Sometimes people are low in serotonin, and you ask them about their symptoms, and it doesn’t match.

You’re like, okay, fine, we’ll leave it alone. But a lot of times, as is spot on, they report those deficiency symptoms, which could be irritability, poor libido, poor motivation, or poor drive. You get nutrients on an OAT test. We love looking at that. People with mold are going to be pretty low in vitamin C and B vitamins. You’re going to burn up like jet fuel, and we often see these quite low. Glutathione; you’ll often see deficiencies there. He’s on his way toward that. The higher this number goes, the more deficient you are. I love an OAT. So after a year, we put a protocol together. After a year, we’ve retested this kid. You could see he was four now, and we fixed everything except for a tiny bit of bacterial overgrowth. But in terms of colonization, the Candida was completely resolved. You could just be excited about the paper. The paper confirms we did a great job. It’s more about the mom saying, “Hey, look, teachers are now sending notes home. What did you do? We have other kids that need help like him. How did you fix him?” That’s the true reward for me.


Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

It’s cool to see clinical results, but when you see the symptoms change and lives change, that’s the magic of what we do. Just for all you listeners about sexual health, to tie this all together, like, wow, this to this example of the test was on a three-year-old kid, just think about this. The same principles. Being tied into what Evan’s already shared with us around, oh, the impact of mold on neurotransmitters, on the circulation, and these sorts of things, I knew I wanted to come back to them. Thank you for showing that. That was a helpful example for people to understand the utility of that test. I want to come back to bring in more of the ladies, too, from the nitric oxide standpoint and the blood flow of just talking about how when we’re talking about circulation and blood flow to the genitals, to the extremities, to all these areas that can get impacted by mold and by that lack of circulation, that women also have erectile tissue.

Everybody that’s listening, if you’re when we’re thinking about erectile dysfunction and the guys, remember that we also, as women, need that blood flow to the erectile tissues of the female genitals just like men do. There is erectile tissue that is dependent on blood flow. just to make sure everybody truly understands how that all ties together in the whole picture. where we should go next because I know what people are probably thinking about what you’re showing in that test example is okay; you said you fixed it awesome. I’m sure everybody is thinking about, well, how did you even do that? Can you talk to us a little bit more about, like, treatment and how you approach this as a root-cause issue? Again, listeners, yes, we’re talking about more, but remember, this is a root cause—one of the many root causes of sexual dysfunction. If you can talk to us about treatment, one of the things it’s important to emphasize is that what you said earlier is that you’re not prescribing; this is like natural stuff. There is this misunderstanding that the natural stuff is not as strong when sometimes it’s even more effective than the pharmaceutical.


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

Yes, for sure. I talked with Dr. Neil Nathan. He’s one of the popular MDs who wrote a book called Toxic. We talked about it on my podcast. He’s a conventional medical doctor, so his ideology on it was that you need to use antifungals like fluconazole, itraconazole, and Nytatins to beat this problem. I’ve proven it wrong hundreds of times. We’ve done it successfully using herbs. I’m not saying that there is no place for pharmaceuticals. I’m just biased against them because I haven’t needed them. The side effects of herbs and natural medicine are virtually nonexistent. There are zero known negative interactions between these herbs. They provide synergistic benefits. One herb plus another equals three, and you get more bang for your buck when you combine these herbs. Typically, just to be clear on what happens to most of these women, they often have gut issues as well that we don’t necessarily see the full picture of in the OAT test. So that’s where we may come in and do a stool test.

Often, we’ll do a GI mat panel as well, which is a DNA stool sample at home where you can measure all sorts of infections, like in this case, where we had E. coli. We didn’t have H. Pylori, surprisingly, but we had some prevotella, which can create joint tissues. We have some Proteus, any of these autoimmune-triggering bacteria, or a problem. We’re looking at females for these because we know, for example, that Klebsiella can create Hashimoto’s. A lot of these women with Hashimoto’s also have low sex drive. They’re hypothyroid, because they have antibodies attacking their thyroid, and because they have a gut infection. It’s important to fix these issues. then we can also measure parasites. We’ll see a lot of parasites in sexual dysfunction. I had Giardia years ago and Krypto. Luckily, I got rid of them because I love to be out in lakes, rivers, creeks, and streams, and if you like to be out in water like that, a lot of surface water in the U.S. is contaminated with parasites.

If you swallow some, get it up your nose. It’s not rare to go camping for a week at the lake and come home with parasites. It wouldn’t be a rare situation if your plan is dirty, as I like to get, so we’ll also measure gut inflammation, which we see a lot of issues with, including fat digestion and pancreatic enzyme function. These are just another set of diagnostic tools. then protocol-wise, usually, it looks something like this. We’ll put together a blend of some antimicrobials. This is a liquid tincture. We’ll put together some Saccharomyces boulardii multi-strain probiotic blends. If there are colonization issues, you’ve got to make sure you treat the sinuses as well. It’s not on this sheet, but we’ll often use an herbal antifungal spray in the sinuses that can be helpful, and then binders; you have to have binders on board. This kid got better. We tested his mycotoxins, and I know this is about a kid, but honestly, if I told you it was a 47-year-old woman, you wouldn’t know the difference because, on paper, these issues look the same.

You could see here that this kid, at first, had extremely high levels of ochratoxin. And then we retested him a year later. It takes at least a year—probably two or three, though—to fully fix this. You see, we got the numbers way down. There is still some ochratoxin on the map, though. Eventually, the mom gets tapped out financially because she’s paying for five kids. You try to balance things like budget, cost, and sanity. But yes, in the females, often in that protocol, we’re going to go ahead and put in some libido-promoting herbs anyway. There are several different blends that we’ve used. Douglas Labs makes a good one. A friend of mine from Bio Ray, whose name is Dr. Stephanie Ray, has a good tincture that we use, and there are several other blends. A lot of them are going to have horny goat weed; they’re going to have maca damania; maybe some Eleuthero, Siberian ginseng, and Rhodiola is a good one, which I love because these women are too tired to have sex. If you get some Rhodiola in their system, usually a little perk up a little bit.

I like to blend adaptogenic herbs with libido-promoting slash hormones, supporting herbs like the maca, maybe even elk antler, or some of these natural pro-androgen type blends for females. They’ll perk back up like I had a woman in Brazil; supposedly, she hadn’t had sex with her husband in ten years. I don’t know if that’s true. That sounds crazy long. So we got her on a protocol to fix her parasites, put her on some hormone-boosting herbs like that, and six weeks later, she’s like, “Hey, I’m back to having sex. Guess what? My vagina can get swollen. Now I have blood flow down there.” I’m like, “Cool.” These issues are fixable. I’ve heard pharmaceuticals are coming on the market for women. If it’s not already there, like a low-dose sex drive formula for women, I can look it up for you, but I looked into the mechanism of it, and it’s an SSRI rebranded as a sex drive drug.


Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Yes, there is a lot to be said there. You said something that I feel is an important direction we want to go, which is the topic of energy. I feel like so many women and men lose their libido and their desires, in part because of overwork and overwhelm. I don’t know if you’ve seen the book by Dr. Libby Weaver, The Rushing Woman Syndrome, whose title focuses a lot more on women. But it’s looking at this full complexity—what’s happening in our society around go, go, go, sympathetic overdrive, multitasking all the time. hard to be focused on the present and thereby focused on things like pleasure and love and touch and connection. Let’s go into this whole thing. Even I know, we can talk about moles, mitochondria, and energy, so we can talk a little bit about more mitochondrial energy and how that’s all tied into this libido picture. That would be amazing.


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

Yes, let’s do it. Well, women are more emotional, and you all need time to warm up. Men are typically insensitive to that. We’re like a fire hydrant. You can just turn us on in two or three minutes, and we’re ready to go. Whereas for women, it might take 20 to 30. In the modern world, especially if you have kids, I’ve got three kids of my own to even have time and find the time to give you those 20 minutes of foreplay. It’s like you have to work that into the schedule. Let’s get granular in terms of the actual day-to-day stuff because we could get geeky and functional medicine, but that still doesn’t fix your scheduling issue. If you have the ability, let’s say if you guys work from home or if the husband can comYou’re going to shut him down. You’d rather just veg out on your phone on the couch. The reality is, that you’ve got to try to think about your circadian rhythm, and your cortisol levels are not elevated or shouldn’t be at nine PM, so your tank is already pretty much empty by then. From a cortisol perspective, if you think of cortisol as like your smartphone battery, you’re already at like 9%, and here he is coming after you. You’re not going to want it. You have to recharge first. Then tomorrow comes, and then you put it off again, and then you end up in one of these sexless marriages. There is a whole thread on the Internet now on Reddit called Dead Bedrooms, and it’s growing exponentially. It’s this huge epidemic of couples that have, quote, dead bedrooms now, and everyone’s trying to seek help from each other. e home for lunch in the middle of the day. If you’re waiting until eight or nine PM after your kids or your teenagers have worn you out and now, at nine o’clock, he’s going to try to come after you, what do you think’s going to happen?

You’re going to shut him down. You’d rather just veg out on your phone on the couch. the reality is you’ve got to try to think about your circadian rhythm and your cortisol levels are not elevated or they shouldn’t be at 9 p.m., so your tank is already pretty much empty by then. From a cortisol perspective, if you think of cortisol as like your smartphone battery, you’re already at like 9% and here he is coming after you. You’re not going to want it. You got to recharge first. then tomorrow comes and then you put it off again and then you end up in one of these sexless marriages. There is a whole thread on the Internet now on Reddit called Dead Bedrooms, and it’s growing exponentially.  it’s this huge epidemic of couples that have, quote, dead bedrooms now and everyone’s trying to seek help from each other.

This is not a rare situation, just to reiterate. Since the invention of the iPhone, this has compounded the problem. They did a study on women, the vast majority. It was more than half. I forget the exact number, but more than half of women said they would rather play on their smartphones at night than have sex. Now you’re hijacked because of these software developers and engineers. They’ve created so much pleasure for you. watching your favorite Instagram story and linking to her favorite necklace in flip-flops. You saw in her beach photo that that was a bigger hit of pleasure than your spouse. In a way, you almost have to go on a fast from social media.

I’ve deleted all the social media apps off my phone, and I’ll still be able to access them on the browser because I’m still a content producer. I produce YouTube videos, and I produce podcasts. I still have to be there, but I’m not wanting to engage anymore on my phone. It’s a terrible, addicting thing. A friend of mine, Paul Saladino, called it a device of despair or something like that. Schedule your sex. Try to do it earlier in the day. Don’t wait until nine p.m. If you drop the kids off at school and it’s just you and your spouse, go home, get it in, then get it done. Because if you were going to say, “Hey, tonight, honey, tonight, I promise,” it’s not going to happen. Take your pro-androgen nerves in the morning. You both pumping your adaptogens and and getting your B vitamins in. I find organ meats to help boost libido. You could buy it as a professional organ supplement. I sell grass-fed organs in capsule form. Or if you’re eating meat generally, I find vegetarians and vegans. They generally have a lower sex drive. Not always, but generally. If we can get these people at least some eggs, some organ capsules, or organ meats, we start to see the vitality perk back up. There is a reason in tribal societies: when a woman is seeking to be pregnant, the tribes are going to give her the organs.

They’re going to give the more prized parts of those animals to these women who wish to be fertile and aroused. Also, I would say you’d be surprised at the number of women that I talk to who say they don’t even kiss their spouse because all this asks simple questions, just to poke around. It’s like, okay, sex drives low. How often do you hug and kiss your husband? “Oh, we don’t do that.” “What do you mean? You don’t hug and kiss? Not even once?” I’m like, “Okay, do you ever make out?” “No, we haven’t done that for years.” I’m like, “Seriously?” I said, “Do you still have sex?” They’ll say, “Yes, just for him.” I’m like, “That sounds terrible.” I’m like, “How does this go down?” This is just a wham bam, thank you, ma’am.” That’s what my grandma, my great-aunt Paula, said. Rest in peace, Paula. That’s what she would tell me. She would say, The typical man wants a wham bam. Thank you, ma’am. The women don’t. Men, you’ve got to slow down.

You’ve got to dedicate some time. If you’ve been in a relationship for longer than five to ten years, it’s going to take some time. This may be a little controversial, but I’ll just shoot it out because it’s the reality. They’ve done studies on rats. They take a female rat or a male rat. They’ve done it both ways. It’s the same biochemistry both ways. They’ll take the female, they’ll introduce a male rat to her, and they’ll measure her arousal. Then they’ll introduce the same rat. Over time, that arousal from that same male starts to decrease, which is just natural. They introduce a new male to the equation and her arousal skyrockets. Same thing. Vice versa. Male rats and female rats: boom, boom, boom. The same arousal drops. New female arousal. New female arousal. Am I saying you all have to become swingers? No, I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that in the biochemical sense, you do get less of a hit from that person. You have to do things to stimulate that same hit, which could be more foreplay or more time together. At least kissing and hugging.


Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Yes. Thank you. There is so much there. I love everything you’re saying. I need to. To bring out a couple of key points. One point is the concept of foreplay. So many people think of foreplay as this thing that you do for, like, a couple of minutes before you do the big act. Foreplay is so much more than that. Foreplay for like a lot of sexually successful couples that I see in long-term relationships is what starts from the moment that true sex acts end. It’s like the touching, the kissing, the touching each other on the arm, wherever, when you’re walking by them in the kitchen, like all these little types of things, the flirty texts—all of that is foreplay. The reason it’s so important for women is that we, too, like women, have such a slower response to circulation on the right side of getting that blood flow to the genitals. Like men, it’s like, “Oh, what genitals?” It’s rough. It’s fairly fast. Think about something sexy. There is a response. For women, there is just a much slower buildup because the circulatory system does not respond in the same way. The other thing I’m thinking about as you’re talking about all of this with this animal, with this rat study, is that it’s making me think of Esther Perel. In her book, Mating in Captivity, she has the best. I love how she describes this whole mating in monogamous relationships where it’s like, okay, like the rats, you put somebody new in, it’s novel, you get a dopamine hit, and all of a sudden you’re turned on. But what Esther brings up is that it doesn’t have to be something new. But her whole point is, how do we look at our current partner with new eyes? How do we say, What, this person I’ve been with for 20 years, what’s the quality of something about them that I just lost? I haven’t seen it. Like, how do they walk across the room? How do they sit? How do they look at me with this twinkle in their eyes? How do we begin to look for these novel types of things? Her whole point is that when we can start to look for novelty within monogamy, that also solves the problem that you brought up with that animal study.


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

That’s cool. I’m going to add this to my reading list.


Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Yes, it’s a must-read in the libido world. It’s so yummy. She does such a good job, so it just pairs so well with that study, right? Because animals, obviously rats, don’t have cognition, at least not that we think in the way that humans do. They’re not going to be able to say, Get this new male rat and be like, “Oh, I’m sorry, have the same male rat,” and be like, “Oh, this is, I’m going to look at this new rat with new eyes.” It’s not going to happen in the rat world. So. Well, this isn’t such a cool lecture. I know we’re running out of time here. Is there anything that we did not cover in the world of mycotoxins, mold, and sexual health that you feel is an important point to leave people with? Then we’ll make sure everybody knows how to get a hold of you.


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

Well, this is a complex puzzle. The stars have to align in a way for both partners to have adequate libido and adequate pleasure because you have the workload. Maybe he’s too tired, which is sometimes the issue. He’s working full time, so she can stay at home with the kids. But now he’s too tired, and she’s too stressed because she’s been with three crazy kids all day. This is a complex scenario that you and I can’t solve today in just one interview. But what I will say is that I would encourage people to sit down with their spouse when they have the time and make a priority list of things that they can change, delegate, or take off their plate that are draining them and putting them out of the mood. If the woman realizes, “Hey, by the time I do all the dishes, all the laundry, and all the clean-up after dinner, I’m toast. I don’t want anything to do with you. I want to scroll on TikTok.” Well, then he needs to know. “Okay, honey, then we’re going to move the schedule around when I get home, and that’s our time together.”

I want people to do an inventory of their lives and figure out where these energy zappers are coming from. Now, please don’t forget about getting a good functional medicine workup on yourself because you need to look at the underlying brain chemistry, the thyroid, the hormones, the mold toxin, and the gut infections because these are all going to limit your ability to get to that peak experience. Even if you and your husband do have time, but you still feel too flat, well, then you need to look deeper. Look at the surface first and identify these lifestyle changes. You can make the scheduling changes. It’s going to be 10 a.m. instead of 10 p.m. sex. It’s 10 a.m. sex. Now, like those things, they can help. Then, if you milk all that for what you can look deeper because there is probably something underlying. There are massive numbers of women in their twenties now; it’s almost becoming, quote, cool, which is scary to post about these premature ovarian failure cases. You see all these women now where they’re like, My hair’s gray, and this is happening, and I have menopausal symptoms in my twenties, so we are truly in a big mess. So I don’t want you to think that what we’re living in is normal just because something is common. because you and all your other friends have no sex drive. I have a friend who’s a doctor, a female doctor, and she is single, divorced, and she’s in her late forties, and she’s telling me she can’t find a single man in her age group who can get and maintain an erection.

We truly are in a little bit of a mess here. Look deeper, do surface look deeper, and then if people want to reach out to my site, evanbrand.com, it has everything. I have functional medicine training courses, so I teach doctors and other practitioners and just do it yourself. Health hackers. I teach those people how to run these labs, how to interpret them, and then how to make protocols to fix yourself. If you’re like me, I don’t want to hire somebody; I just want to fix myself and learn this stuff. Then my site has the information there, and the podcast is free. I’d like to get you all in there too. Let’s keep the conversation going.


Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Yes, it’s amazing. Thank you so much for all of that and all of your listeners. I know so many of you are going to be like, “What did we all say? There are so many different things on here. What labs?” Check out Evan and his site, and remember that if you need to hear this again, you can purchase the summit. If you haven’t done that already, listen to what Evan has to say over and over again, because it was so packed full of information. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Thank you, Evan, for being such a wonderful Gaston. It’s been truly a pleasure.


Evan Brand, CFMP, FNTP

My pleasure. Thank you.


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