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Kent Holtorf, MD is the medical director of the Holtorf Medical Group (www.HoltorfMed.com) and the founder and medical director of the non-profit National Academy of Hypothyroidism (NAH) (www.NAHypothyroidism.org), which is dedicated to the dissemination of new information to doctors and patients on the diagnosis and treatment of hypothyroidism. He is... Read More
Kathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARM is a magna cum laude graduate of Boston University School of Medicine. She completed postgraduate training in pathology at Harvard’s Massachusetts General Hospital and internal medicine at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. She has a degree in exercise physiology and has been an athlete... Read More
Dr. Kathleen Oneil-Smith, joins us to give a broad introduction into the wonderful world of peptides and their many uses. Doctor Oneil-Smith is internationally recognized as one of the top physicians in the integrative space and has dedicated over 10 years to cutting-edge, evidence-based alternative therapies. Topics include traumatic injurries, pain, inflammation, headaches, mental illness, and autoimmune dysfunction in this exciting overview!
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PeptidesKent Holtorf, M.D.
There you go. Hello, this is Dr. Kent Holtorf With another episode of the peptides summit today, we’ll be interviewing dr. Kathleen O’Neil Smith, um, who is really a renowned, uh, lecturer researcher, clinician, uh, in the peptide world and actually many other things. Um, she can pretty much talk about any subject come peptide. So it’s so wonderful to have her, uh, the time lover, uh, of this talk is everything you need to know about peptides in 45 minutes. And if anyone can do it, she can do it. So a little bit about a doctor, okay. Neil Smith. Uh, and she’s basically a magnet to Marta graduates from Boston university school of medicine. She completed a postgraduate training in pathology at Harvard, Harvard, mass general and internal medicine at Brigham young and women’s hospital in Boston, not too shabby. Uh, she has a degree in exercise.
Physiology has been an athlete or a national rowing team for 40 years and a coach for six years. Pretty incredible. She has worked as an office and hospital based internist in 2006 and then shifted to functional medicine, functional medicine after completing a two year fellowship at eight 4:00 AM. Uh, she completed a STEM cell certification through AFRM and a traumatic brain injury certification through AMMG. Uh, she has been teaching and seeing her lectures here at so many conferences, uh, yeah, many regenerative conferences, many topics, uh, ranging from gut brain pain. And we’re, we’re gonna kind of go through all those with her or with very few people that we can do that with.
So we’re gonna take a take advantage of her, um, as well, as well as peak performance. And I know she was just down at the hall of fame football camp. And, uh, so she’s, you know, treating a lot of elite athletes as well. She’s founder of the international, uh, peptide society, clinical peptides society, and the American Academy of STEM cell physicians. She has extensive personal use with Ivy nutritional therapy, medicinal signaling therapies, which is really, I think, an upcoming, um, feel where it’s really looking at why he gets sick instead of, okay, here’s, here’s this drug to treat the symptom. And that includes hormones, peptides, STEM, cells, exosomes, all those things. And she’s constantly learning.
She’s always on the forefront and lecturing, and she’s so generous with sharing our knowledge, other physicians and the public and her son had severe traumatic brain injury and the prognosis was slim, uh, and, uh, uh, that we returned to normal. And, but with her, uh, he recently graduated with a math degree, uh, two years after having the severe traumatic brain injury. And I I’ve had my own, or I swept the ER, trying to get or ICU. I, they just don’t know the studies and won’t do anything. And maybe, you know, because they can’t because it’s not part of their protocol, but I can imagine it was very frustrating and there’s so many things you can do, and it didn’t become very limited. Um, she has direct actors practice and functional and integrative and regenerative internal medicine. And I know it’s probably hard to say what she does. She treats the things that no one else can, I think is a good way to put it, um, been in Boston over 10 years.
Uh, she’s definitely international thought leader and they couldn’t have used the peptides and in many areas, uh, she is innovative firm, passionate doctor. I’m proud to say she’s, uh, she’s a friend. Uh, we bounce things off each other all the time. Her teaching styles is approachable, friendly, and creative. She makes complex ideas, simple, uh, which is a testimony to her career as a high school and college science teacher. I did not know that prior to going to medical school. And that’s, you can do that and make things simple when you really know the topic, you know, if you don’t know the topic, it’s hard to do so thank you so much for, for being on the summit. I’m looking forward to our talk and we’ll just kinda go through, um, different areas and, and get your thoughts and I’m sure, uh, we’ll get so much out of it and pearls and how you would approach things. So let’s just say someone has, uh, a lot of pain, um, you know, whether diffuse or localize, what, what, what’s your thought and also what, what type of peptides would you use to, to help those, those
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
To treat pain? Well, it’s good to be here. You are a thought leader. Thank you for your kind words and generous words and a good friend. So I appreciate you and you educating everybody. Can’t, you’re, you’re wonderful. Um, no pain, pain, pain is pretty common, right? So I really have delved in to pain through looking at fascia and the signaling molecules that we did. So signaling therapy and peptides are fantastic for that. So it depends on the kind of pain, but let’s say yesterday, I had a man who is a lawyer, but works in the steel industry and he’s probably 60. And so he’s always on his knees and he’s building and he’s doing steel kind of stuff on our, I know what that is, but it’s construction. I think he’s a great guy and he likes to be active. He likes to cycle. He likes to run. He’s very physically active and he’s pretty strong, pretty healthy now. So he’s come to see me quite a bit with some knee pain. And once he started to come to see me, that just built the relationship and he comes always for his pain and prophylactically now, but he had some significant knee pain and came in and we used a number of peptides. But I think the main peptide we used with him was the growth hormone, derivative AOD that worked for cartilage and bone repair. So we basically did a series of AOD with high Eleron in with, with the lubricant, um, that we would use like Synvisc, but it’s hyaluronic with the AOD. So you’d get a double. Um,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So, so you’re injecting into the joint,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Into the joint for this one. I also do it a little bit with him, so I would do, um, uh, and I, yesterday I did an injection in the joint. He had had a series before in the other leg. Now this leg was bothering him. I think he’ll just get one there. And then I gave him a little push of 10 CCS of, um, peptide BPC with some, um, PRP and just a little bit of saline through the IB push to kind of flush it through on the same side, which was his right side yesterday. But he’s so happy. Does I tell everyone about you? I told them all. I mean, they just can’t believe it. You know, I can walk again. I can ride my bike again. I can hike again. He’s really, he’s really happy. So that’s, that’s localized pain.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Interesting. And just do you inject, um, so just going back to the BPC is going to lower that inflammation kind of overall AOD, um, being a growth hormone fragment has, you know, the it’s gonna induce healing. Do you inject also BPC or tea before, uh, into the joint as well?
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yes, but it depends on the joint. If the joint is really inflamed, then I might use a little bit of TB for as well. If the joint is not so inflamed, but chronically degenerative, I might use BPC with the AOD with ha. Um, and so he came in pretty much spontaneously with, you know, pretty quickly. So you don’t always have what you need. So you’ll use what you have. But yesterday I had AOD and I could have put BBC in the joint, but I had enough liquid to put some AOD with some PRP. I could have used them, Nia Soames. It’s all about the cost for, for everybody. So he’s a Nao D each a PRP joint VPC, little push through the IB with the little PRP and the BPC.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. And right now where it’s a tough time with peptides trying to get them. But hopefully when this airs now will be resolved, now I’m fascinated with your work on fashion. And when I, uh, was go to one of your lectures, I’m looking like Pash out, what the heck? How did find this out? How did you discover this? And then it started fitting with other things. So I was wondering how,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Oh, amazing. The reason I’m a physiologist coach. And so I’ve worked for a little while. Yeah. So for the last two years, I’ll explain to you, I worked at TB 12, which is Tom Brady’s place in Boston, do it as a medical director and they do some amazing work. And the reason I wanted to work with them is because I love what they’re body workers do. You could call them physical therapists, athletic trainers, whatever, but they are very skilled at understanding how to take the soft tissue, where you have soft tissue pain, whether it’s from an injury, whether it’s from fibromyalgia, regardless of what is the cause of a soft tissue pain you could have, you know, people get dry UMaine, they age, and they lose the lubricant that helps their, their tissue to flow. And I think of it like little things of spaghetti, all in that little spaghetti thing. And they’re the hard on cook spaghetti and they go up and down, but they need lubricant and they need to be able to flow. And between each of those little pieces of pasta, I’ll have something here. Maybe I can show you here, but between each of these little pieces,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
She has a small picture.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Exactly. These, exactly, these there, then you need to signal. So between each pencil, it needs to be signaling. So they move that tissue. And we, you and I, as clinicians, physicians would add what they need to put it, to move that tissue better. So each muscle fiber needs to go up and down. So all of that interrelated tissue in and out of each of these pencils and around it is fascia. And it all signals. If this is the back, like the vertebra, and it goes around to the front, to your abdomen, the pain and the vertebra can induce pain in the abdomen. The pain in the abdomen can induce cause it, all the fascia connects it. So I learned how they moved that. And then they allowed me to help them put things in to the body, whether it’s through peptides or through IDs, nutrition, nutrients, or other ways to help it all heal and work better. It’s one.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So the fascia is basically lining all the muscle that’s under the skin. Um, everyone lying lines everywhere.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
No it’s like in and out, in and out like origami. And so it’s in your cheeks, it’s on top of your lips.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It was really interesting. And we had, um, a skin cell guy come out and he basically, I, one of our doctors had a frozen shoulder, which I didn’t even know. And, you know, usually go, okay, let’s go into the joint. Let’s go in and go deep. And he just went pretty superficial into the fascia around it. And he guarantees that they don’t walk out to complete better he’ll refund their money. Right. I’m like kind work. I mean, you gotta go deep. You gotta go. You know, and the doctor goes, you know, and I’m like, Oh my God, you know,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Guy uses signaling molecules. So it signals everything in the middle, everything in this space, including the pencils, which would be tissue. What he put in superficially starts, the signaling,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
We think of fashion. It’s just kind of connective tissue that does not just sometimes push, you know,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
No it’s so it’s so bio active, it’s active, it’s full of all these biological processes. And even when you touch it, it’s very responsive to touch. And certain, each fascia likes certain kind of touch, but when you touch it, you press it, you move it. And then you put the nutrients into it. Whether it’s through a little superficial needle or, you know, Ivy or orally, it loves it. And it moves
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Cupping does that, cause it kind of pulls up on the fascia. Um, my girlfriend was doing that. I’m like, Hey, I kind of credit crazy. Um, but like it’s helping, you know? And so, you know, there is, it’s, it’s amazing, like all these alternative therapies when you look, have a good physiologic basis. Yeah.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
They really do. If you think of thymus and beta for like for polymyalgia rheumatica. And so, and their hips are bothering, they can’t stand up, you know, so it’s kind of the in their shoulders are bothering them and you give them a little peptide, just a tiny bit of peptide, like I’m as in beta for one of your favorites and you put it in there, you can move. It’s unbelievable. So you can give them a little dose in the, in the soft tissue, like a tiny little Neal. But it makes sense because when we put, when children have insulin dependent diabetes and we give them insulin in their abdomen, it gets to the rain, it gets to their toes. It goes from the toes to the nose, to the brain. It goes everywhere from one little injection, even just under the arm or wherever you put it, it’s the same with peptides. They are amazing, amazing.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And it’s amazing that some of the doses, I mean, you know, and, and, you know, nanograms, you know, usually, you know, drugs or milligrams, supplements or milligrams, and then there’s micrograms thousand less and even work a thousand less than that. So it’s like nothing, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
It’s like a domino effect. So once you affect one cell, it goes to the next to the next to the next and they just keep all communicating. So it makes them function as a whole, as a system, as a team. So just like, you know, if, if you think of a quarterback’s arm, arm, Tom Brady, or any of the quarterbacks and you think, Oh, every layer of muscle in between each little layer is fascia. So when, when you’re treating a quarterback, if they can’t move and I was a quarterback camp constantly. Yeah. I was out there as it, according to that camp, and this is interesting. The quarterback coach, we, we said, what if the, what if the athlete can’t make the movement that you think they need to make to get, you know, to get the ball in the air where it needs to go? He said, well, I just changed their position. I said, well, you don’t have to change their position. You can put in signaling molecules to get this fascia to be not inflamed and to glide and to glyden every which direction so that quarterback can throw that ball hail Mary,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Because I, I know it’s just a little side note that a bunch of doctors were kind of all fighting, trying to get in that position and they’ve bypass them and called you
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
No, when you can do that, it’s really it’s really,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
No, I love that. And let’s just say a headache. What, what do you think of when someone comes in complaining of headaches?
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Headaches are interesting. You have to kind of think like, what is the cause of the headache? So if you think, you know, that it’s a blood pressure issue or something in the inflammation, in the blood pressure, and again, if it’s real inflammation, you’re going to have to go to, you know, something that’s, anti-inflammatory so understanding the cause of that will be key, but you could try a thymus then beta four, you could try a cerebral license is one of my favorites, a little harder, harder to get right now. Um, but that’s the thing
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Now. Um, just so you know, uh, in a couple of weeks with an oral cerebral license,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
There used to be one and it was great. Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So it was about two and a half CCS where
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
That’s amazing.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. So we’ll have that cause yeah. Cerebral license is like impossible. I finally got some injectable. I can’t sell the patients cause it’s from Russia. Um, but it took three months. I forgot I ordered it and it showed up. Yeah. Um, but yeah, cerebral license is basically a neuro signaling molecules, um, you know, porcine. Um, and they kind of, don’t tell you the formula it’s secret and some amazing studies on neurodegenerative diseases and uh, you know, kind of a significant improvement in Alzheimer’s like pretty quickly as well, you know, traumatic brain injury. Um,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yeah. Think about what it does. Cerebro grain, lice, it breaks up things in the brain that don’t belong there. So my son had his brain injury, thank goodness for peptides because he got the thymus NS, the Cerebra license, he got them all and we just,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Well, let’s talk about that. So traumatic brain injury, and it’s such a, a problem. And I think such a bigger problem than people think because you don’t have to be a professional athlete, although that’s where the focus is the football, but you know, people who don’t, anybody skateboarding, you know, soccer, um, you know, and then the longer you do it and it doesn’t have to be like our automobile accident, like one big one, uh, just repetitive, uh, you know, based concussion that you think nothing of. And they pay the price, you know, and a lot of these football players, I stopped, um, a study and you’re, you’re probably there their presentation at the STEM cell, uh, conference where they did spec scans again, tell the position of the player by where the brain damage was. Um, it’s, it’s crazy. So what did you for your son, um, to get this recovery? Where, where the doctors would say, sorry, you know,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Oh, he had so much bleeding in his brain, like all over now. He was, he was, um, it was a violent, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and violently was attacked and fractured with a crowbar and then he bled a lot. Yeah. So he, you had stabilized. And then after that, um, he was home for quite some time from college and we basically just treated him with peptides around the clock and then a little bit of amnesia Soames and things like that, those other S the other signaling molecules as well, but mostly it was the peptides for a good nine to 12 months, you know, just kind of cycling. So we use the thymus sense. We use the BPC, we use some CJC, we use some cerebral license and it was more kind of explain those for the inflammation, the primary inflammation I used the thymus and beta four.
And so I wanted to kind of reduce inflammation for the nervous system, accidental the axons on the nerves regeneration. I use thymus an awful one. So I try to get inflammation down, then build neuron axon, neuronal axons. And then when you’re getting the inflammation down, you want the glucose utilization in a dirty brain, so to speak a bloody brain to be used well. So you use cerebral license. So we got a little Sue I’m missing beta for cerebral license followed by some, um, Thomas an awful one. So those are three and then four at night prior to bed, 8:00 PM, 9:00 PM. We would do a little bit of the CJC, which basically is the growth hormone derivative, uh, with HIPA.
And so that would kind of help to heal the whole body because he was really, I mean, he really suffered. So, and then I love BPC. I think it’s one of the most amazing for neurodegeneration for all healing, for any act in myosin, filament within a cell membrane. So the cell membranes break down and that’s how, we’re the, how the blood gets into middle tissue. So the BPC will help restore the cell membrane. So I use the thymus in both of them, the BPC, the CJC HIPA cerebral license. I think he had one dose of a, like a STEM cell, like product. Um, but yeah,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
The max or sea Lang, or
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
I use C max and ceilings subsequently when he, he maybe three or four months out, he had some anxiety, you know, just random palpitations anxiety for no good reason. And that we use some C-Max and slang for a kid. We would alternate them and see, yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And those are both, you know, no tropics improve brain function, but especially sea Lang. It does so many other things. I mean, modulation, um, really helps deal with stress, you know, uh, lowers all, uh, all those things. Um, couple of things. So anomia Soames versus exosomes versus STEM cells. What’s your thought?
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Well, I think STEM cells, you know, they are cells. Like if you did a bone marrow transplant, that’s the idea that you can, you can harvest STEM cells by doing fat liposuction, et cetera. So that’s one way of doing it. Um, it’s a little cumbersome because you have to, you know, go through the process with all of the machinery and then exosomes are these little vesicles that basically go from cell to cell, to cell and pump into the cell and they carry information. They can carry good information, they can carry bad information. But the exosomes that we use that you and I have used basically are designed to deliver the good information to restore the cell, to function, to regenerate the cell back to normal function and exosomes and amnio, Psalms are very similar and many assumes are amny from amniotic product X or stones are not always specified that they’re from amniotic product. They may, they may am not fluid. They may be from placenta.
They may be from another component of the fetus, you know, the healthy fetus at birth, but they’re pretty similar. You can look at each of those, the amnesia, some the excess tome and the STEM cell, and you can characterize them depending on where you got them and you can see what benefits they may potentially confer in the patient that you’re trying to heal. So you really kind of want to know what is your goal. And it may be that you just need a little bit of amnesia. Sometimes it may be that you need something very specific from an exome perspective, but you talk to the, to the people, to the scientist, that PhD doctors who are researching this and are fully they’re brilliant, and they will help you to figure out what factors, what growth factors and what are the, what are the, um, the markers of each of these cells that you would want to use. And that’s yeah,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Because, you know, people think that the STEM cells go that area, they start growing and regenerate, which they don’t. I mean, studies show you separate, for instance, with a post demise study, they blocked the STEM cells getting to the heart and it recovered just as well as, you know, giving them. So, yeah, it’s those signaling molecules that are generally secreted in the packets. Um, how do you deliver those? Do you do any nasal? Um,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
The nasal are great. I mean, especially if you were thinking like these motor vehicle accident with a brain injury, or even my son at the time that we weren’t doing, we weren’t doing that this was years ago. So I think that, um, I think that’s a great delivery mechanism right through the cribriform plate. Right. And you know, here it’s like a little checks, serial thing with holes. And if you inhale that appropriately, it goes right to directly to the brain.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
It’s the sprayer or a Spino cath to get up in there, or
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
No, you can do mother. You can do either. I’ve done this Fino cat. I don’t do many of them. I use the sprayer and I, I tend to like things a little bit more continuously over time than a one and done. I don’t really believe a one and done is a solution. It’s not like you can go to physical therapy one time and you’re done. That’s true. Yeah. So I like some consistent pattern of delivery because I think that that’s going to give us a steady state pattern and it’s going to allow for better healing. So I prefer an intra nasal spray, um, and lots of other docs do that as well with great.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. And we found like the autistic kids uh it’s. It seems to work great. And then the problem with doing like a Spino cath, I mean, it’s going up in there. It’s, it’s uncomfortable if you don’t suck it up. Um, but I did it because STEM cells, you don’t really want to use the anesthetic. So they filmed me. I didn’t do any anesthetic and the other doctor office, and, Oh man, I was flopping around it doesn’t hurt, but it’s just so comfortable, you know? But you, you, you can numb it up, but I don’t think it’s needed to get right. You know, I think it gets up in there. You know, if you get like a nasal spray that kind of shoots shoots up,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
I tried to do the easiest thing possible and I’ve had really good results with, you know, nasal sprays and things like that. The patients have had good results. So if I didn’t get a result, I would consider another way. I treat a lot of wounded warriors to brain injuries and they’re so they’re really great people they’re so motivated to get well. And because they’re just hardcore. Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
You know, what’s strange. I met a number of that, that, you know, and this guys was telling me, he goes to the VA, no one can figure out his symptoms, you know, what’s to say, it’s all psychological, Mike, let me get you up. That, that, that, that, that, he’s like no way, you know, and I started talking, I start crying and he’s crying and I’m like, I’ll treat you for free, just come in. And they don’t, I don’t understand it really. Yeah. It’s um,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Three they’re so good. Um, I should send some to you that are out in the West coast because they’re really motivated. And they,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
They go back to a doctor or whatever. Oh, there’s nothing you can do. Oh, that’s, you know, or they talked to their friends or someone, you know, that goes, or
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yeah. They really want to know. I have a group of Marines and Navy seals that I’ve seen and they talk to each other and then they, they come and they’re willing to try a lot of things and they do. They’re great. I love these young guys. They’re like 30 and under, you know, and they’re, they need help.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And it it’s incredible life change. And it’s, it’s kinda the same with all the other diseases. We treat a chronic line in front of feet syndrome. I a big part of it. No one believes them, you know,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
To do it’s costly. But if you give them something they’re going to do it, they’re really great.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. Yeah. They want to get better, but then they start and they go, doctor, doctor, doctor, or their friends go, uh, Oh, just, you know, be, uh, this exercise, are you just lazy? Then they start believing it. You know? And
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Hard time. One guy in particular, actually I heard from him recently, he just moved down to Alabama. He just graduated college. He’s like 30, he was a Marine. And he came in, he had seen a lot of doctors including at Yale because he was in Connecticut and he was, he was really suicidal. It was very sad. Um, and he was not really hopeful when he came in, but we try to, you try it a couple of things. And he came regularly for some IVs and all, all kinds of peptides and all kinds of, um, inhaled things. He did great. He graduated. So he just got a job in Alabama, a great job. You showed me the house he bought. I couldn’t believe it. He invited me to the Marine Corps ball, which was hysterical. So I went to this Marine Corps ball where he got an honor. And he was so happy because at that ball, other young Marines were there who were feeling really down and depressed. And he said, look, you know, he feels like he saved their life. And he feels like being able to do it would never have made it there. He didn’t, he really felt like he was,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
People cry. The first visit, just like you believe me. We’re like, yes. And I’ll show you on paper Pat here. You know, you’re not normally, or what, if you don’t find anything I’m like, that hasn’t happened, you know, never happened. Right. You just gotta dig deep. You know, they do a chem panel, a CBC and a cholesterol. They go, Oh, your cholesterol tires up, you know, like, Oh, you’re fine. You know, it it’s crazy. You know, I just feel care
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Because they really are great guys. Yeah. That’s been fun treating the brain, the brain injuries where those,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. And then how about like the neurodegenerative? Uh,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yeah. Yes. Sounded like ms. And Parkinson’s and um, I think, you know, there are, it’s funny because we’re here and we’re doing this cutting edge work. And I connected with a doctor in Germany who runs the frontiers in neuro neurology, uh, journal. He’s a young guy, very smart and very proactive in Germany’s proactive. We know that. So he’s working on a pet peptides for Parkinson’s, um, maybe leucine lysine, some of those things, but just combinations. He has his own proprietary combinations with amazing results and bringing it to market in a whole new delivery system. And also, um, having it studied with an IRB, but with something different than a DB RCT, a double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial, he’s doing it. We give different amounts to different people in different groups and we follow their progress. So they really, medicine is changing and this is all going to be utilized.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. It’s, it’s a feel that, you know, it has to change and, and the problem is like, there’s so many great things, but trying to get something published that isn’t standard dogma is they just won’t accept it. You can’t get into a good journal oftentimes and Oh, that’s the alternative. That’s not what we do. You know, even if it’s like great data and you know, the show.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yeah. I think it’s really just about if there’s a little challenge and conflict between the farm.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. Because who’s, who’s funding the journal, you know, it’s like, they, you look at this five page ads of pharmaceuticals each, you know, every five pages now you don’t see the journal cover it’s wrapped and what they add, you know? And so they’re not going to publish something that says, Hey, you don’t need this drug. You know,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
People find you. Right. And they find doctors like us and thank goodness, you know, that we’re able to, to really hear them and help them and measure the data. We can’t really follow the data, but symptomatically, they’re so much better for, for a long period of time.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. They’ll say, Oh, it’s just anecdote those, those 500 patients you have, that’s anecdotal. And I know
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
That’s not, there’s nothing anecdotal about that. And you’ve been in this business for decades, right?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. And it’s funny. And I’ll argue, you know, people, um, they’ll say, well, society that says this, while you look at the who levels of evidence, okay. Like what’s the highest of double blind placebo controlled, uh, you got med analysis, you’ve got single line goes down, then am case studies that go it’ll then under, that is societal recommendations because they’re shown be 20 years behind. They don’t change. They cherry pick studies to just, you know, say what they, what they want. So,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Well, we want to do no harm, get the right medicine out there, get to the root cause. And yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So about getting to root cause, uh, what we talk about, uh, immune dysfunction, gut brain, um, how do you, well, what’s your thoughts on that and what you, uh, uh, yeah.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yeah. The immune system is, is really the, at the core because the immune system will either create inflammation like heart disease and diabetes and stroke, and even some of the results from infections and, or it can create auto-immunity immune confusion. Right. And that’s, auto-immunity the immune system becomes confused. What’s friend what’s fo the immune system is based in the gut. So there’s a lot of gut interaction around that. And then the last thing that the immune system does is cost the cancer. So we really have to put the immune system on the top and understand which area, you know, is it carcinogenic cancer related? Is it autoimmune related? Is it inflammatory related? And then start to really put out the fires, maybe change the pH of the rust, you know, and then really just make sure that the cells don’t go rogue. So for the immune system, you know, understanding which one of those three categories you’re in, you may use a thymus in because the pharmacy
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Do to evaluate the being system.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Well, I look at a lot of immunoglobulins, right? So the IgE ease a jeez AMS, both mucosal, immunoglobulins, the ones that are secreted in the mouth, the ones from the gut, and then the cerem immunoglobulins. So we can look at those in the blood and in this live. And then you can look at them in the stool and you can look at natural killer cell function and you can look at compliment and all of these other, um, obviously ESR and CRP, but I don’t think those are all the helpful myeloperoxidase. I find very helpful. I find looking at the differential on the complete blood count, really helpful. Are there monocytes, are there immature granula sites? You know, what is going on? And looking at that with a myeloperoxidase, if the mild myeloperoxidase is activated and elevated, and you’ve got a differential that suggested that there’s something chronic going on, then you gotta, you know, that your immune system is likely inflamed and there’s likely going to be some immune dysregulation for auto-immunity.
So you’ve got to get curious or cancer, a stool test will help you. I mean, it will show you a lot of things. If you look at the immunology of the stool, like the eosinophil protein X, the calprotectin, the secretary IGA. And then when you look at the metabolic Comix, the metabolism of the microbiome of the microbiota, the bugs and the gut, you are going to also see what’s being produced. Are there, um, kind of like rancid chemicals being produced, or they research through the body, that’s going to be your long chain, fatty acids and your beta glucuronidase, that will be elevated. And then you’ll have short chain, fatty acids that are low, which are your resistance starches that are there to feed the good guys. So you can get a lot of information from stool, from general blood counts and natural killer cell count a CD, 50 a CD, a CD four CD, 57 count. Really important. Just basics. I mean, those are real basics. Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
But you’re looking at everything different, you know? Oh, you’re normal, you know, and look to paint a picture.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yeah. I had a patient from Bermuda yesterday, relatively young women, fifties, young fifties. And she has it. Her doctor was actually one of my students a long time ago, insomnia. And so she, she came to me on her own, but she had so many autoimmune markers that were off. So she has a mixed connective tissue disorder with mild symptoms right now.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. Mixed connective tissue disorder is when you go to the rheumatologist, they don’t know what it is. So they call it mixed connective tissue disorder.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
And they like her rheumatoid factor for rheumatoid arthritis is off it’s numbers are off. Exactly. That’s the soft tissue. So coming back to fascia that we, her fascia is what is bothering her. So we have to treat that. So we need to absolutely understand that heal any leaky spaces, whether it’s in her mouth, whether it’s in her, God, make sure she doesn’t have, you know, rheumatoid arthritis is associated with bugs because the immune system didn’t keep them out.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Chronic infections, I think are just,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yeah. Right. The bladder, the gut. And then also, um, it can also be related to, um, low secretory IGA, but often hypochlorhydria low stomach acid.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think everything’s a vicious cycle. Even look at the gut brain acts is also the brain gut axis, you know, and I argued El CBO, everything received, see placebo. Cause everything you say. Well, I think it’s kind of also a symptom of things like, Oh no, we’re in, I was on a bike, a podcast interview. That guy got so mad at me. Cause you know, this is the cause of everything I said, I don’t know. Well, what’s making the prone cause you treat it and it comes back. Okay, there’s something wrong. Right. And dr. Robar is going to be on and talk more about that, where he’s, he’s finding now, you know, all these gut presentations are due to systemic problems where the regular gastroenterologists will just go, okay, let’s scope you, um, of everything. That’s fine. You know, and they just don’t look right.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Structural things. They only looked at us, there’s something functionally that caused that structure to change. And dr. Bar is so, you know, open-minded and curious and, and learning. And he’s just an amazing GI doc.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. And he has, um, I’ve been told whether I’m the sexiest voice. So, uh,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
He does. Yes. He’s a lovely, lovely human being. That would be a great, a great pocket, a great webinar. I’m excited to listen to that. So you’ve got to fix the gut. I mean, with the gut, you’ve got to use some BPC, always because BPC, you know, I mean you’re an expert on BPC as well. That BBC is so healing for the gut and you can cut the gut, you can cut the colon, right. And just leave it there dead for three days. And then you can bathe it in BPC or stay clean without any BPC. And the BPC grows back. Is there anything,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Or like spinal cords that are separated, you know, girls back. And, um, and then we, you know, we have the TB for, uh, active frag, which, uh, which absorbs and has the effects of T before and shown to fix the tight junctions, which are key. We will, did you use any Malana Corton, uh, stuff for inflammation? Um,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
For the MSH, I think that’s good in like Lyme and other, um, real chronic infections. Right. Do you use that for life?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
No, because, um, you know, the problem is you do like Malana tan, um, and you do it. I mean, you have the pigmentation increase, which people that’s great, but if you’re older, it brings out the dark spots and that, but there’s a fragment called KPD, which is actually much more anti-inflammatory, uh, it basically suppresses STEM, uh, STEM cell, um, uh, mass cells much more significantly. Um, and so we’re, we’ll be coming out with that product alone and also adding it to, uh, the BBC product. Uh, and there’s a lot of Valenta court receptors in the gut. So huge anti-inflammatory um, lots of studies on like psoriasis, like one day it’s gone, you know? Oh yeah, yeah. And I girlfriend, uh, developed, um, uh, mass cell activation syndrome, like just, you know, basically take something like a pencil, you know, eraser scrap, and then it just popped up and boom, it was gone. There is amazing.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Well, NASA activations are growing rapidly. I mean, I think it gets from all the exposures and, and our bodies just being overwhelmed. I think that, that, I love the idea that KP KPB with BPC without it. That sounds how soon Bravo, thank you for doing that.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. Uh, I’d say two weeks back. So, um, yeah. W w within the month
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
You’re such a Renegade. That’s my best friend in medicine.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
We’re always trying and yeah. Like those side effects type thing, you know, so it’s, uh, it’s going to be great. Um, and that’s the thing I think it’s tough because everything so intertwined, right. Everything’s efficient cycle in a good way or a bad way. Um, and, uh, yeah.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Then the hard thing to do is to know where to start, right? So are we going to start with these peptides? I say, start somewhere, just start anywhere. And then you can always change. You adapt. It’s like starting a football game game. You got,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And I know you have a training course that is a very highly regarded. And I think doctors are freaked out because there’s so many options and they, you know, like, I think you said, you know, where do you start? Like, just start. I mean, you’re, it’s so hard to screw it up, you know? Cause they’re so safe, whatever you give is probably going to help. Um, and what would you say the core peptides are for you to start
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
BBC for sure off, I mean, injectable or oral off the charts, the fine innocence for sure. The CJC, for sure. I mean, CJC works in the immune system too. That’s why I used it in my son. It works as insulin, you know, blood sugar, insulin immune. Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
You added to like a Moreland or yeah,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Always. Yeah. It’s so amazing because you’ve got the grelin with the Eva Moreland, which works on healing the stomach. Right.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And just so everyone knows their, uh, work they’ll secrete the tele body screen growth hormone. But as dr. Neil saying that does a lot of other things and Oh, I want to ask you with the, with the traumatic brain injury. I mean, you know, there’s studies showing that, you know, why not give these guys, you know, prophylactically before they play a little, you know, DB DB for whatever BBC, like, it just seems like, heck yeah,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
It makes sense because that ounce of prevention is a lot easier than all the sure you need to try to do. That’s really makes sense. And I think, you know, we’ll be there. The problem is the, this circuit, you have to jump through the hoops, you have to jump through, but it’s worth jumping through them because they benefit people without any harm. Yeah. Yeah. And
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s either they’re so safe. And, uh, let’s just say for performance because you work with all these athletes and uh, what types of things do you like to do to get someone in their peak? Because the difference is professional athletes, you know, it’s so competitive, just a tiny bit difference. Um, they’re, they’re gonna make it or, or, you know, be gone.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
It’s a multifactorial program when you, when you take that on. Like, and I think of it, you know, kind of foundationally and building up, but I, but for peptides, you know, I had a, an older gentleman, not old but older in his late fifties who hadn’t really trained and was going to run a marathon the year before he was going to run that marathon. But he got there, he had horrible back pain. He didn’t end up running. So this year he comes in, the marathon was like in October or something and he comes in and he came in in late August and he said, I’m running this marathon. Do not talk me out of it. I’m I’m not, I’m running the marathon. So I’m here for you to create the program to be sure I get through it. And if I have no injury, that’s a lot of pressure. I’m like, well, are you going to do the program? So we did it. We created it with, um, a lot of different peptides and we would use the CJC and we would use the BPC for sure.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
In shape to start with,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Um, marginally, maybe you’d run a mile. I don’t know.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s pretty good because, uh, I’m so passionate about exercise. It’s like a religion every four months, I do eight minutes. So,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
So whenever peptides you’re using their work agent and for this man, I thought I would have, I mean, I tried to talk him out of it because I thought it’s not worth it if you get injured, but he said, I’m doing it. So markably, we did for sure. BPC for sure. CJC and then, you know, kind of juggling a few of the others around. He did, he did fascia work through the specifiers, specialized fascia experts. And he did his best time. In fact, you ran so fast that I miss him. Cause I went out there to mile 20 thinking he was going to be slow. He had already passed by. And then when I heard that he had done, he was finished. I didn’t believe it. I said, you are a Rosie Rui. She got out, went back in the car and photographed him all along. So he was lucky because otherwise I wouldn’t have believed it, but it was quite amazing. I was impressed that that, that could happen. So if you really kind of tweak some of these things, depending on who you are, Motsee maybe, or maybe a mitochondria, the one you told me about, we talked about earlier this week, I think that, you know, there’s a lot of options for getting the mitochondria up and going and for, you know, healing the tissue.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And did you combine that hormone is an nutrient therapy?
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
I brought actually and I mean, he did a couple, probably an idea a week IVs and in the IVs, typically if I do them twice a week, I’ll do nutrients and then kind of detoxification thing. So I think of get the debris to keep moving and then clean it up, get the debris to move, clean it up. So it’s, you know, some glutathione, some vitamin CS or whatever you were choosing to do, then the bees and the minerals and the zinc or whatever they need.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And what, what’s your favorite kind of detox? IBS.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
It just depends on the person, but I have a lot of athletes, you know, people guys and gals who work out regularly and they come in twice a month, minimally for glutathione and in the glutathione, there’s some B vitamins and things like that. They can get some amino acids to pump them up as well. You know, Coleen, I love, I love PC.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. I think that’s the best detox. Um, yeah, I, I grabbed so much stuff like, you know, petroleum products, also heavy metals. Um, you know, I’ll take that over the culation. Yeah,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
For sure. How do you do PC due to the cane protocol? What do you do?
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Um, yeah, I don’t know. I’m not a big protocol guy, so doctors love protocols. So, um, one of this ramp people up on it, um, and uh, it’s like especially sick patients that have poor detox. And it’s interesting where the start may use a lot of genetics and you can see the ones that, Hey, no wonder you’re having a problem. All your detoxification pathways suck, you know, and it’s nice because instead of like giving go on like all of these supplements and things that I can give you a thousand things that are good for you. Right. But, but we can pinpoint much better. Um, what’s wrong. And a lot of times it’s like, yeah, that makes sense. While you’re having this problem. Now let’s give this, you know, but a much more directed treatment, so.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Oh, good. Yeah. Really? What about ID? Are you doing NAD ID? Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. I like NAD. I mean, it’s just such a pain, you know, it takes so long. Um, and I’ll do a little sub Q myself. Uh, we’re cutting down the dose. So it’s like a two or three hour, um, because it’s tough to get someone to sit there for eight hours, you know, so hard. Um, but, uh, but yeah, the ways to increase NAD in the cells, like some of these mitochondria, like five amino, one MQ, um, uh, and, and things to, to increase, uh, I find that kind of the oral or sublingual NAD. I don’t know. I haven’t had good luck with that at all. Um, maybe mile with some of the, um, you know, uh, precursors, but they’re just short lived, you know, um, uh, poly MBA, um, this kind of palladium complex. So it’s interesting with like the five minute one and Q so revs up the, uh, blocks a certain, uh, pathway, which ends up increasing NAD in the cell. And so we gave to people, stopped working and then we added a PQQ, um, or Mito cue, which is any oxygen goes in the, um, uh, in the mitochondria, then it started working again. So it almost like used up the antioxidants.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Yeah. Maybe it didn’t have enough of the ingredient to keep working. It kind of did its job. Give me some more of other things like cocuten and
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. And it’s amazing, you know, what these, you know, theories of aging are mitochondria functioning and look at all these illnesses, you know, neurodegenerative diseases, you have tons of studies in Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s mitochondrial dysfunction, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, I mean, muscle biopsies, their mitochondria just swollen. They don’t work, um, and fix the mitochondria and yeah, and there, all of a sudden by diabetics, their mitochondria are terrible and, you know, they have no metabolism and so fibroid can help. Uh, I mean, there’s so many things, uh, you know, in terms of fixing the mitochondria, some of the exosomes actually have mitochondria DNA, which, which repair, uh, mitochondria. Um, they had one baby who basically now with total heart failure, and this was a research they injected on how many billions of mitochondria and are recovered and finding or ever since. Yeah. I mean, it shows
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
You’re at the mass general, but it’s only for people who are really sick and they don’t usually make it from stage four mitochondria disease. They don’t make it to like, they die by 20 for me, it’s like, okay, what about the people who are living horrible lives, costing the system a lot? Why don’t you get them to,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
What are they doing for those?
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Do you do a lot of infusions of a lot of the different things that you’re saying? I mean, not the peptides mortgages.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. Just like kind of keep, keep that going. And also those kids are very prone to vaccine injury too. For sure. Yeah. And, um, so we were thinking of doing kind of a vaccine, uh, uh, basically harm mitigation program where, you know, it’s kids with immune dysfunction where their immune systems are already like this, th one’s too low GI issues high in the vaccines. That’s the problem is they go like this, cause a bunch of inflammation change, brain chemistry. So, so if we can normalize their immune system before they do the vaccines, I’m Mike from freaks out. I’m not an anti-vaxxer, I’m just saying let’s make them as safe. And you know, they will say, you can’t even question vaccines.
Like why not? I, we, you know, it’s like, they’ve helped more people. I go, I agree. You know, well, sanitation has probably helped more, but, um, but it’s just like, like any Biotics has also saved on the lives. We questioned antibiotics all the time. It’s, you know, nothing is black and white. You look at, you know, some of the studies show that people that get like hepatitis B vaccine, like when they’re born, why are they getting that? What are they going to be drug users and prostitutes and shown developmental delay. But you can’t say that you become attack on anti-vaxxer. Um, you know, a lot of studies show increase autoimmunity, 30% increase in obesity. Um, okay.
When and which, which comes back to personal choice, I think, is that okay, let’s say we have the shot. That’s gonna protect you from this rare, but pretty serious, potentially serious illness, but your child will have a 30% higher increased risk for obesity. Would you do it then? Exactly. It’s, it’s weighing this, but we don’t give those choices to the parents. It’s just do it. And you’re not allowed to even question anything. And again, I’m not an anti-vaxxer. So, um, I, they do a lot of great things, but how safe we do, we give them, usually spread them out and like, Hmm.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Spread them out. Yeah. Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
The HPV vaccine. Oh my gosh. It’s it’s, we’ve had people devastated by it, but if I even mentioned that I’d become an anti-vaxxer, you know,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
I think is that you get surprised, you show up with it and to her or something, and then they don’t even treat what you showed up for, but they shove in a vaccine. I mean, that’s true with pneumococcus, that’s her with the flu. That’s true with, you know, the HPV vaccine, you’re just born, they’re shoving vaccines in you. And we never even look to see is this patient in a, you know, a good state of health right now that they could handle one vaccine, let alone three vaccines.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. What do they get? 105, I think now. And you know, the whole thing has, COVID like, they’re just waiting for a vaccine. Like it’s an RNA virus and the antibiotic or the antibodies don’t stick around. Um, you know, we don’t have an HIV vaccine, funny thing. Okay.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
20, 30 years.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. But the body will secrete IGA antibodies in the nose. So I think the nasal vaccines are the ones that are gonna make it, um, from the secretory IGA.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Exactly. We have to understand that.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And, uh, and they think a lot of people are actually probably immune or have some immunity to it because of the Corona cold viruses and things like that. So you look at the death rates going down. I don’t know, by the time this airs, I might, you know, be saying what’s going on, but I think it’s, they’re making it much worse than it than it seems like a lot of people aren’t getting it, but the death rate and the death rate for people, you know, generally healthy people under seventies is close to zero, you know,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Pretty low it’s well under, well, under 1% like zero,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Which is like the flu. Um, so, but anyways, I don’t want to get too political. It’s like, if you mentioned anything like that,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
No, I’m seeing the same thing with COVID that people who were sick, they could find, um, I had a couple of people, hospitals, but they did fine. And they, um, they had antibodies, but the antibodies are going away. And so I’m just beginning to check the second round of antibodies. You can check quantitative or numbers of antibodies here, as opposed to just do you have them or not, which is, I think what quest does. And I’m kind of amazed that people will go from 30 to five in a several week window. I mean,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
The create antibodies. So those tests are tough and you’re looking at the PCR test. The false positive rate is looking like 30, 40%. Um, because even though specificities 90 plus percent, but let’s say, you know, let’s say it’s a 90%, but that’s the say the incidence is 10% higher, but with that combo like, well, 90% it’s 90% accurate, but really because it’s 10% prevalence, it’s a 50% false positive.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Right, right, right.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
So it’s a, the testing is,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
You’re a math guy. That’s, that’s a little complicated math. Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
But yeah, people don’t understand that. They just say, Oh, how, how accurate is it? But, um, okay, this has been great. It’s going through all these things and how you approach, or let’s just say one last thing just personally wants to stay healthy and prove that. What, what, what do you think of what, what age, uh, let’s see. Middle-aged, I’m 55. So middle aged, 55
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Middle aged between 45 and 55. Um, yeah, I think middle age, you know, really I, if you’re pretty active, you know, the weekend warrior, the weekday warrior, you’re definitely gonna want some BPC. You’re definitely gonna want some tea before. If you’ve got injury, any type of injury,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
All those drop. As, as we get older, you know,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Thymus and alpha, one intermittently on the season,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
That’s going to boost your good immune system and prevent cancer. And yeah. And so, you know, by the time they’re my age or famous is pretty much 90% gone. So, and that’s when all these diseases of chronic illness of aging come about cancer, heart disease, autoimmune disease. Yeah. And, and if you bring those back and, uh, just kind of talking about COVID, uh, with the, you know, they found people with sepsis, like their tea before is like zero, you know, with sepsis and giving tea before not only boosts, it means just prevents that overshoot. And so it prevents that, that immediately, that just goes,
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
I don’t mind storm. Yeah.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
And so you were saying, um, when we were talking before, was that a friend of yours doing a trial on, I think famous in beta?
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
No. It is the people who, you know, they’re in their eighties and they’ve been involved with the thymus ends for since the fifties, 1950s, they have a trial going on in the DCF with And the thing about the thymus since, and what you were saying about the thymus gland is that we can change our will. Our chronological age is fixed. Like you have 54, 55, but your biological age can be 50 or 48 or 46. If you put back the things that have been polluted, like your thymus gland, which is down here, if you put back the support for that gland, then you’re going to be fine. If you support your testosterone, that’s like easy to understand if you’ve lost your estrogen, because you’re post-menopausal, if you support the things that are gone, you’re going to have a healthy life and a better biological age of biology is going to work better and you’ll feel,
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. And you what’s scary is like, you know, bombarded with toxins, pesticides, plastics are very estrogenic. We’re going to be, everyone’s going to be a woman, but like, you know, you look at each decade, they the rain. So when they do a lab test, each lab, they have to do their own reference range and take everyone. And they take, you know, 95% people are normal, only the highest two and a half percent, most in a percent normal. So each decade people are lower. Their stockings are these keep lowering the testosterone. So now, if it was 30 years ago for the same age, you’d be super low now. Oh, you’re normal. It’s like saying diabetes is normal. Cancer is normal. Heart disease is normal. It’s, it’s crazy. You know, so optimizing those things and, or they’ll be in the lowest 3% that aren’t as like, Oh, you’re your normal, you know, it’s like saying getting a D minus, Oh, you’re fine. You know, be at the top of your class, unlikely writing. Really. I know it’s really
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Crazy. It is a really big issue in terms of, um, Oh, we can, we can do a lot about these things. And I think it’s exciting that people are in learn that share ways that you can treat these things safely and effectively. Right. So they can be safe. They can be effective and they can be sustainable. We’ve effect that what’s better than that.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. I can name a couple of them. I know when we we’re at a conference, they were just like Jolene without being on that’s the after conference. I’m joking. Well, it’s been wonderful talking with you. You’re just a wealth of knowledge and just, yeah, you make me smile. I’m just such a good person too. Um, and so I really appreciate you being on and thank you so much.
Melissa Grill-PeterKathleen O’Neil-Smith, MD, FAARMsen, DC, MS, BCHH
Thanks for having me. It’s always great to work with you. I love doing these things with you and thanks for being a great colleague.
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
Yeah. Great savior. Right. Thank you so much.
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