Learn How To Manage Lyme Disease & Mold

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Everyone. Dr. Tom Moorcroft, back here with you for this episode of The Healing from Lyme Disease Summit. And today we’re in for a real treat. Scott Forsgren is going to be joining us. And for those of you who may or may not know, he’s better also known as a better health guy. He’s a guy that I met a long, long time ago. I think the first time we ran into each other was at a seminar with Dr. Klinghoffer. And the first thing I noticed about Scott was his insatiable appetite for learning, right? And so he was everywhere learning and writing and sharing what he’s learning at all these different conferences. But it wasn’t like he was at one conference and then that was all he did, or he’s had another one, and that’s a it was really to bring together all these, you know, as you all know, there’s so many things out there in the world of Lyme and co-infections that are confusing and all out there. And Scott’s one of the people who’s been spending his whole career putting this together for all of us so that we don’t have to be astray. And I’m so honored today that we can chat because it’s been a while since we’ve actually been able to personally talk with all the cool things going on in the world that we all remember about. And what’s really nice is when I reached out to Scott and he was so gracious to come on and share what this is, he really wanted to talk about an 11 step process that he really thinks about people. So he’s helping by writing but office. So as an FTN and he’s doing so much to move this field forward. So I’m really honored to have you here, Scott, and maybe one of the things are, I think that some people might who follow you might know your health story and your background, but maybe you could introduce us a little bit to who you are and where you come from so that people understand why I’m so stoked to be having this conversation and why they really need to pay attention to what we’re talking about.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Thinks it’s an honor to be here. So I had a tick bite in 1996 in Northern California, and I was fine for many months in 1997, 26 years ago, next month, I actually had a very significant decline. It felt like a flu times 100. There were times that I wasn’t sure I was even going to survive it. I had these head to toe burning sensations. This neurological pain felt like a sunburn 24 hours a day. I had an ongoing fever that lasted for over a year. I was having balance problems just sitting in a chair or having to prop myself up at night in bed to feel like I wasn’t going to fall on the floor. Getting up and walking across the room was really a challenge for several months at the beginning. And so all of these symptoms and none of it really made sense. I mean, the difficulty walking and balance issues and vision issues and floaters and lines and squiggles and twitches and, you know, for speculations, those types of things, this strange motor like tapping sensation in one foot that felt like my foot was on the hood of a car and just had this constant vibration that lasted for a long time. Tremors. And then a lot of the things that go along with not knowing that lead to, you know, anxiety and depression and OCD and all of those kinds of things. So it was just it was nothing that I had ever experienced before. I went to about 45 different doctors from 1997 to 2005. I had gotten a diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia. One doctor suggested multiple sclerosis. So we pursued that for a bit. And so back then, the only thing you could really find about chronic fatigue syndrome was that many people recover in a decade and for me that I didn’t want to wait a decade to find out if that was true or not.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Right.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

I mean, that certainly wasn’t a very promising outlook. So fortunately, in 2005, after I think it was Dr. Number 45, it was a new medical doctor. And he said, I really think the only thing that could be wrong with you is that you must have severe food allergies. And I want you to go to this lady who does electro dermal screening. She works at an outlet mall next to a coffee shop. It was the strangest experience. And so after about 2 hours of her doing her electro dermal screening, she said, I think you need to get your doctor to test you for BORELLI Bartonella Babka. And they’re like, yeah, I suspect that you are dealing with Lyme disease. And I thought this was just such a strange experience.  I didn’t even take it all that seriously. She really urged me to get the testing done. And fortunately, after we repeated a couple of those tests, we did get confirmation of all of the things that she suggested. And so that really piqued my interest in energetic testing and thinking outside the box. 

At the time, I was working in the software industry in Silicon Valley, in Northern California, and so all of this was very new. It just didn’t wasn’t something that I could understand initially. But I very quickly went from getting a Lyme diagnosis. Then in July of 2005 to being in the front row, January 26 at Dietrich Kling Arts first conference that I went to now probably been to 30 or 40 of his events. And so really started moving down that path of thinking about how to look at these conditions from a more expansive, more holistic perspective. Now, it’s been 17 years since I’m actually 18 years since my diagnosis of Lyme disease. And fortunately today I’m doing really well. I work a lot. I exercise a couple of times a day. I feel really well. That doesn’t mean that I stop taking good care of myself and stop doing all the things that I learned from working through this recovery journey. But I’m very, very blessed today to have really good health and to have learned a lot from this experience.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

It’s wild because I remember my diagnosis of chronic fatigue, and I wanted to punch the doctor, you know, because I’m like, wow, I told you that joint pain, brain fog and fatigue and you told me I have joint pain, brain fog and fatigue. I’m like, Wow, what did I just give you your copay for? And yeah, and I had like you, it’s just like there was this kind of journey of healing, but also, you know, I’ve been telling everybody that there is hope for healing. And that’s one of the reasons that I wanted you to be here, too, is I’ve been symptom free for at least 12 years. And I know that a lot of people, you know, may have a little bit of stuff, but, you know, that comes up and goes, but they can get like so much better. 

Scott and the part I love is what you just hit the nail on the head for me is I do all those things that help that I learned along the way to keep myself healthy and to honor and be grateful for the help I have. So and one of the other things I think is so intriguing about our conversations is your approach to this, because I think most people think you get Lyme disease and it’s time to break out the heavy hitters and go for it. And I mean, I guess if you get the acute tick bite and you have acute Lyme, most people I talked to are in some land of beat the crap out of it. But realistically I think once the horse is out of the barn, we have to look differently. And what have you learned throughout your experience and, you know, where should we be treating these bugs?

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Yes. I mean, I think I went through that same initial kind of response of what’s the biggest hammer, my type, A-plus personality that now I joke I’m a type A minus. I think that unfortunately, a lot of times those people that develop these conditions are Type A personalities. And I don’t think that we can recover our health with the same approach that got us to a place of being unwell. So for me, you know, very little of this is original thought. I give credit to Dietrich Kling hard and Neil Nathan, Amy Dirksen, Simon you, Raj Patel, I mean, so many people that have been guides and mentors for me over the years that, you know, sometimes I’d be in a room with some of these people and kind of pinch myself like, okay, how did this happen? And really did feel like the universe was kind of making these connections so that I could certainly help myself, but also to help people on a much broader scale. 

And so I’m really blessed from that perspective. But if we look at this kind of 11 step model that’s emerged in my mind, and it doesn’t mean this isn’t going to change, I mean, we’re constantly learning new things. So for me, the first step in this process is supporting detoxification and drainage to improve the terrain. I think oftentimes if we didn’t have issues with our terrain and the environmental toxicants that we deal with on a daily basis, I don’t know that we would develop many of these conditions in the first place. So step one is detox and drainage. Step two is looking at our external environment and considering that our internal environment is only ever going to be as healthy as our external environment. So with step two, we’re looking at mold, we’re looking at impact. Those things that can affect us externally. Step three is optimizing sleep. Step four is the mental emotional contribution to these conditions, traumas, conflicts, those types of things. Step five, which I differentiate from mental emotional health, there can be some overlap, but I do think of them as being different is really looking at retraining the limbic system and supporting the parasympathetic nervous system, the vagus nerve, all of that peace. Step six is looking at inflammation and immune modulation. 

So stabilizing mast cells, reducing inflammation, modulating the immune response to the microbes, which we’ll get into more, but honestly, I think the modulation of the immune system tolerance and integration is probably more important than the killing aspect of the microbial focus. Step seven is looking at foundational things like hydration, nutrition, the microbiome, our gut health. Step eight is looking at the mitochondria, the adrenals, coagulation, some of the things that maybe people don’t focus on as much, particularly coagulation and particularly now post pandemic. I think that’s such a critical piece that’s often being missed. Step nine out of 11, sometimes people are surprised is the microbial overgrowth piece. And we can talk more about potential orders within that when we get into that step. Step ten is the dental contribution. So cavitation, root canals, those types of things. And then step 11 is after we’ve done a lot of this foundational work, we’ve gotten rid of the termites, so to speak. What regeneration and restoration work do we need to do to repair some of the damage that might have come into our system throughout, you know, years and even decades of dealing with these conditions?

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Yeah, I love the overview, Scott, and the thing that really just jumps out to me is not only step nine of 11, you know, bringing out the hammer, but I love the way you put it, microbial overgrowth, because I think so many of us think that like we’re supposed to be super sterile. And that’s really not the way our body works. In fact, a lot of the way our body breaks down is by being to sterilize it, you know, and not letting the body do the step. So when we dove deeper into this, like when you start with step one there, what are you kind of talking about? And where should somebody start? You know, cause I mean, we talk about detox and drainage all day long, but I don’t know that everybody knows what that really means.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Yeah. So for me, the detoxification piece is really looking at binders primarily to minimize the recirculation that inteiro hepatic recirculation of toxicants toxins so that we’re able to maximize our excretion as much as possible of these different things that we encounter. So again, coming back to the idea that the terrain really is what’s very important, I think improving our terrain is the road back. And without a focus on detox and drainage, I think it’s going to be much more challenging to regain our health. So we want to think of this first as minimizing as many of the incoming toxins as possible. So all of the common things we hear about pure air, pure food, pure water, looking at our personal care products, cleaning products, all of those things. And then the detoxify creation piece, again, is doing as much as possible to bind on to a lot of these toxins that are found in the bile and minimize recirculation so that we are getting them out of the system. So detoxification, I think of more as binders drainage, I think of as optimizing our inherent ability to excrete. So people will call this the channels of elimination, the among threes we’re looking at the liver, the gallbladder, the kidneys, the extracellular matrix is a big one, or the interstitial that people often don’t talk a lot about the lymphatic system, the colon, the skin, even the lungs. So how do we optimize those exit routes, making sure that we’re not constipated? That’s an early on important thing to do. We’re not going to detoxify if we’re constipated or thinking about what can we do also to support the gallbladder. So a lot of times that comes in to what some people call phase 2.5 detoxification. So looking at bitters or phosphatidylcholine, those types of things can be really helpful. 

There are lots of binders that are available now. I think a lot of times starting with some of the single ingredient tools like zeolite and bentonite, Clay and Lorella, and those can be very helpful. And then there’s a number of great companies now that have binders that combine many different things. So the cell core products, for example, many different companies. Quiksilver is another one that comes to mind. And so I think we’ve got a lot of those tools in our toolbox, sometimes called a styrene or well call can be helpful as well. I tend to after myself, having gone through years of antibiotics when I was treating Lyme initially before I understood a lot of this and before there were a lot of these options, I was probably then doing more in the pharmaceutical realm. Now I tend to kind of like to start with more natural tools and then know that those things are still in the toolbox if we need them. 

From a drainage perspective, a lot of the homeopathic drainage tools I find just incredible. So when we’re looking at the liver, the kidneys, the lymphatics, the matrix tools from Khana or Energetics or Des bio, those can be fantastic. There’s also herbal ways that we can support drainage with things like milk thistle or dandelion solar, dago red through numbers of different tools that we can use in that drainage realm. I think another piece is trace mineral depletion. I think that plays a significant role in why we tend to hold on to a lot of these heavy metals and other environmental toxicants. So making sure that we’re getting some trace minerals into our routine as well movement is going to be critical in this detox and drainage piece. Also. So even just walking, it’s amazing. I try to walk 3 to 4 miles a day and it’s really even been amazing to me. That’s really been more of a focus just in the past year or so. 

How much of a difference just walking can make in terms of our lymphatic system and really getting fluid flow moving within the body and then looking at a lot of the other adjunct tools that we can use in this realm. So colonics, coffee enemas. For me, coffee enemas were amazing. Foot baths, castor oil packs, liver gallbladder flushes. Though I do caution people to do that with some supervision from their doctor. I think there’s a little more risk with some of those more aggressive things that we should have some guidance and then sauna, I think can be very helpful. But it’s generally something I would think about a little bit later if the person still has autonomic nervous system dysfunction and isn’t sweating or they have adrenal issues or they feel worse, or that’s just stressing their system more. It may be a tool to kind of hold off until a little bit later, but I think there is a place for sauna as well as part of this whole detoxification and drainage conversation, right?

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Yeah. I mean, there’s so many cool options of things to do. But I think, like you said, like I love going back to the natural stuff, get the body, you know, moving and walking and getting the right fluids in there as we both are sipping on our, you know, pure water beverages while we’re chatting with whatever may be in there. So, yeah, I mean, I think it’s just so important to look at those pieces and understand that not everything is necessary for everybody at one moment. But I think you really highlighted some of the really key pieces that people should be thinking about as you move on, you know, because like and then obviously like a lot of these binders, I think, and talking about inter hepatic circulation and such comes out of the knowledge of what mica mold and mycotoxins does in the body as well as other environmental toxins. But what’s going on with the environment, you know, and, you know, just so you’re aware, because I know I don’t I’m really bad. Everyone I tell everybody in like every interview, I don’t prep anybody. I let them come in and share what’s really in their heart. So but we’ve definitely touched a bit on EMFs, which I know you are. You’re big on too. So yeah, what’s going on in the environment.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

So I think in my personal experience, the mold piece, which I discovered a couple of years after the lime piece, I think that probably was a bigger factor than the linemen coinfection. So again, our internal environment will only ever be as healthy as our external environment. I think that’s why so many people today are sick and we really do need to look at we call it mold, but the reality is mold and mold illness is much more than just mold. There’s a whole bunch of mold, mycotoxins, microbial viruses, voc these bacteria, actin oh’s and doe toxins. I mean, it really is something I think we just use as a term for this soup of things that we see in buildings that have had water intrusion or water damage. So I do think that that’s very critical to ideally, if you’re really sick to explore that in great detail. 

If you can get an indoor environmental professional to come in, I think that’s a great thing to do if you can’t do that. Some of the self testing like the Ermey from Michael metrics or enviro biomarkers can be helpful. Looking down at the hurts me to score. None of these scores are perfect, particularly the Ermey I think the hurts me too is actually a little bit better. But you don’t want to look at just the scores. You want to work with your doctor, work with your IEP, work with a professional that knows how to interpret these things. I do think the immuno Linux plate testing can be helpful. Number one, it’s really cheap. Number two, you can put plates around in many different rooms throughout your house and then visually see if there’s a potential issue. If there is, you can then send them in and get them to tell you exactly what kinds of molds were growing. Some of them are not harmful to humans that grow on those plates. The downside being that some of the more significant molds like sticky batteries, for example, does not grow on an amino lyric’s plate. But making sure that we’re testing our environment, I do think that we can also then look at the body burden of mycotoxins with something like Real Time Labs or Great Plains or Vibrant. I personally really like real time labs and I’ve found that to be a very helpful tool. Is it perfect? No. I think in this entire conversation, most of the tools that we’re working with are not perfect tools. But the more of these data points, the more insights we can get, the more I think we’re it’s almost like the eye doctor, a better one or two. Better two or three, right where we’re getting closer by looking at all of these different pieces. So once we identify that there is an issue, we either need to remediate it or move to a new environment. I think oftentimes, unless it’s really significant remediation can be a good way to go sometimes when we move from one place to another. I’ve seen many people jump from kind of the frying pan into the fire. 

And sometimes the remediation is a reasonable way to go unless the IEP says, you know, this is really a significant issue. So I think here too, we can look at things like air filtration and other things, though I think a lot of times the way I think of this is more like there’s a hole in the bottom of the boat, which is the water intrusion, the mold, the material that’s been damaged. And unless we do something to plug the hole, air filters, fogging some of those tools, they’re really more bailing the water out of the boat with a Dixie cup, so to speak, so we can’t ignore the source of the problem. But then air filters and small particulate cleaning and fogging and some of those things, they may have a place. It’s just we don’t want to jump past that removal of the water damaged material. So I think that’s really critical. The IMF piece, as well. 

And that’s something that Dr. Clean Heart first started I learned about from him around 2006. At the time, I think most people were kind of laughing at him for the seriousness in which he talked about this topic, and I don’t think very many people are laughing anymore. So there is also connection discussed between mold and their ability to produce mycotoxins being more significant when there is an EMF exposure, all of the EMFs in our environment may be an explanation for why we see more mold associated issues now than people might have seen decades ago. And there is also some conversation which I think is very real, that the microbes within us may also react more aggressively when there is significant EMF exposure. 

So I think looking at, you know, doing some testing on your own with an EMF meter or getting a building biologist to come out and do some evaluation, do the things that we can to reduce or mitigate the exposures. I do not believe that harmonization works as a primary strategy for EMF, so we’re not going to put a dot on our phone or wear a necklace or whatever as kind of the primary way to mitigate or reduce the exposure. I think there is a place for those things after we’ve done some of that work, but this step is really making sure that that soup of mold, toxins or water damage, building toxicity is addressed and the EMF address and setting the stage then for the body to better be able to heal.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Yeah, I think it’s so critical like you’re saying. Like to me it’s like this toxin overload thing. So if we have too many things in our vessel where that we’re not ahead of getting, you know, minimizing the recirculation. And we have too much in our environment. I mean, it’s just going to be overwhelming. And like you said, a lot of times, like our line, people find out that it’s the mold or the EMF and that that is the thing that’s holding them back. And it’s not like it’s one or the other. It’s just like at some point there’s something that becomes primary that your body needs to, you know, move out more focus on. And I do think the environment is such an important piece. And you mentioned EMFs, I mean, even just the research on that, just on on like Rouleau bodies and the stacking of red cells that look very much like autoimmune disease, just when you’re exposed to your phone or a route, Wi-Fi router, you know, and then the impact is one of the things I learned at the first conference where I ran into where I first heard your name was literally like, hey, turn off your Wi-Fi at night if that’s the least you can do. 

And I can’t tell you how many people we’ve cured their insomnia and then I think about it because the next thing that comes up is sleep, you know, but also lymphatic function and brain detoxification is so integrally related with deep sleep and also being parasympathetic. But if you’re being attacked by your Wi-Fi or your phone or your Bluetooth all night long, it’s a little harder to get into that deeper place. And so, you know, I’m sure the bugs, we’re all we’re all vibrational beings and we all have electrical currents in our bodies and I’m sure we’re all reacting to it. So what comes up for you with sleep as we move to step three here?

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

So it’s funny because you already brought up the primary reason that step three comes after step two, which is that if you talk to Detroit Clean Heart and you asked about the number one cause of insomnia, he’s going to say that EMFs are that cause. So I think, again, fixing the external environment as much as possible is critical. You know, there’s lots of supplements and other things and we’re not we don’t have time to go into all of those. I will say melatonin is my drug of choice and has been for many, many years. 

For me, it just is amazing. But I think a lot of times here looking at some of the other things, like maybe getting a continuous glucose monitor and looking to see is your blood sugar dipping in the middle of the night. That then is triggering a cortisol response. That then is the reason why you’re wide awake looking at oxygen saturation and weighted blankets. Incline bed therapy can be great as well. I mean, incline bed therapy not only for sleep but also for supporting the lymphatic system, the lymphatics, a lot of that drainage that we talked about. And then I think there.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Are more.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

And more devices that can be helpful here with the caveat that we don’t want to bring things in that are then going to have more EMF exposure, but using things like brain tap can be very helpful for supporting sleep. The Apollo neuro band can be great. I love using the aura ring so that as I’m making changes and trying new supplements and new stacks for sleep and things like that that I can really see, what are the patterns? What’s changing? How did my RV shift, how did my sleep score change? So I think this you know, the sleep area is so critical because every bit of improvement that we can get in terms of sleep will exponentially increase our overall healing capacity.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Yeah. And, and you know, because you’ve already kind of highlighted the next several steps, but I also know that there’s a synergy between these next handful because for me, like one of the things that’s sleep is the mental emotional aspects of your morning ritual and your evening ritual and then kind of the state you’re in as you attempt to go to sleep. And you do, because everyone listening to us is going to be sleeping deeper and deeper all the time, every night. Right. But, you know, the thing is, it’s just like as with sleep it so critically interrelated to some of these next steps here. And I mean, what you know, when you look at mental emotional health and kind of and then I’m really interested to hear why do you put that in front of sort of the limbic? Because I think a lot of people are just like just dove into limbic stuff and, you know, and then or work on your mental emotional health before your sleep. And I’m very curious because you’re very strategic with the way you put these. It’s really nice to see.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Yeah. I mean at the same time, I think everyone is an individual and no one is going to heal with a protocol. So the steps will change based on what the priorities might be for a given person. So for me, I just think that back in the early days I thought kill the bugs, detoxify and all that, you know, mental, emotional stuff certainly was at the bottom of the list. And then as I mentored with Dr. Klinger and looked a little more deeply into my own situation, I now think of it very much the opposite, that the emotional, the mental health is really probably the top area to invest in. The toxicity piece is next. And then I think the microbial piece is actually much more straightforward if we can do a lot of these other things, right.

So I think if we look people that are dealing with these conditions for the most part, I mean, nothing is universal. But I think many of us, myself included, have had, you know, emotional traumas and conflicts that either set the stage for the illness or if you didn’t have any of those, the invalidation that we often experience from the medical community that doesn’t believe that our condition is real, that in and of itself creates an emotional trauma that we then still need to process in some way. So I think that accepting there is work to be done in that realm doesn’t mean that the condition is all in our head, but that the mental emotional components do play a very significant role in the development of the illness. And I think the pattern that I’ve observed in kind of the Lyme community has been type a overachiever, perfectionist people that do due to find their worth and value and place in the world and also often times don’t feel deserving of being well. And so, you know, I think those are really important things for us to look at. I mean, I did a lot of work there and the work is never done. I mean, we’re living in a very stressful world. And so I think we have to continue to prioritize mental emotional hygiene as well. But cultivating healthy relationships, eliminating the toxic ones, finding joy in our world, doing everything we can to not identify with an illness. 

I never took on the label. Lynnie And that’s totally fine if some people want to do that. But for me the condition was part of my experience, but it wasn’t who I am. So if we look at Dr. Kling Arts Five Levels of Healing Model, this mental emotional work is third level work, and so shifts that happen at that level have a cascading downward effect that is very significantly impacting to our physical body and our physical health. So whatever tools someone finds helpful EMDR, applied, psycho neurobiology, MFT, emotion code. I mean, there’s so many good tools here. One of my favorite resources is Amy Sherry’s book How to Heal Yourself When No One Else Can. And it’s really practical work for helping to release a lot of that cellular imprint of emotional traumas and conflicts on our health.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

It’s so important. And I love you know, I love when you have options, too, because I know a lot of these resources you just mentioned and there are different ones resonate differently with different people. And the other thing is different ones resonate with me at different points in my life, you know, which I think it’s so interesting. There’s so many options out there and it’s like finding that one. And I mean, when, when you put the exclamation point with, you know, how to hear yourself and no one else can, and that’s really the through line of the whole summit. Scott is like self-healing. I want to re-empower people to explore, to take back. You know, it’s kind of that internal versus external locus of control. Bring that back in and take control over your own health. Doesn’t mean don’t reach out to people like yourself or myself or another person, you know, Dietrich or someone like that. 

But it’s like really taking that personal responsibility to really unleash that self-healing within. So that’s awesome. So how do you different and then if you were to kind of, you know, one of the things that just keeps popping up in the back of my head in clean sleeping is like one of my favorite things ever. And when you said it was nice, I forgot to say somebody if you haven’t done it every day. It’s so simple, definitely check it out. But not to distract where we’re going with this. But I just like for some reason it’s just in the back of my head that someone listening is going to do this and it’s going to make a huge impact because it’s dramatic. I mean, when you start to change that, when you start to look at like your mental emotional health and the trauma and working on all that and we’ve definitely brought in some trauma specialists and, you know, and obviously a lot of people who follow the work that I do, I mean, this is like a huge part of what we’re doing. How do you kind of differentiate or dovetail that into this sort of limbic vagus parasympathetic poly vagal fight or flight freeze thing that we’re all talking about all the time?

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

I think there is definitely some overlap, but my observation has been that there is oftentimes resistance to the limbic system work because people equate that with mental emotional issues. And so limbic system impairment can be the result of an emotional trigger or trauma or conflict, but it can also be the result of something very physical mold exposure or Lyme disease, chemical exposure, pesticides. So I think there is a difference in that the limbic system can be impaired for reasons that are not in the mental emotional realm. And then we have that kind of heightened alarm switch or safety center that’s raising an alarm for things that are relatively unimportant. So, for example, if you had mold in your house that was a tiger for you at one time, your limbic system might have correctly responded that there was a tiger, you were being threatened, may have released cortisol, this whole cascade of stress hormones, but maybe you remediate your house. It’s much, much better. 

Maybe there’s a little bit of mold. I now think of that more as the kitten walking outside the window down the street. But when your limbic system sees the kitten, that small amount of mold that might still be in the environment, it reacts as though the tiger is still there. And so the work on the limbic system is critical to recalibrate the perception of threat to the actual level of threat. So we’re not perceiving a threat that is actually significantly less concerning than what our perception is. And so in my experience and I know there’s a lot of resistance to this work in some, you know, it’s challenging people that do this work. I think for the most part they have very good results, but it’s challenging to get people to commit to doing it. If there was a single tool that I’ve seen time and time again, really make a significant difference for people, it is the investment in the limbic system work, whether that’s NRIs or the Gupta program or there’s a number of new ones that are coming around. I think getting the limbic system to recalibrate or reboot, as our friend Neil Nathan would say, is an very important part of the conversation. 

Some people might say that if you have someone who is not tolerating any supplements, they can’t tolerate, you know, one tablet of Lorella, for example, that doing something in the limbic system realm can be very helpful to increase the therapeutic interventions that they can tolerate. And I do think that that’s true. At the same time, I think that a lot of the value in the limbic system retraining comes after we’ve addressed the tiger. So if you’re living in a moldy house, ideally you want to fix that and then do the limbic system retraining. So can you started earlier? Yes, but I think the ideal scenario is you address some of those tigers and then you get the limbic system to more correctly perceive what the threat level actually is.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

I think it’s a great way to stay that, too. And to highlight the fact that you’re saying there’s originally there’s like an appropriate response and then the ongoing response maybe have become inappropriate because of all the other things stacked on top of each other. And it’s not saying and I think that a lot of people are always like, oh, as soon as we go in that realm, we’re talking like, Oh, it’s all in your head, or you just have to do the mental work. And so separating those two out, I think is therapeutically helpful and also like psychologically helpful for me, for me and our patients and everybody listening because it’s different. And to be able to really recognize that, I always try to tell people your body is doing the very best it can in any moment to get better. It’s just it may be stuck in a few loops that got set up because of an environmental toxicant or something like that or in some other exposure. But it’s just so important to understand that it’s just in a loop and you can change it. But originally this is here to actually protect you and your body was doing the right thing. So I just really appreciate the way you present it because it just, I think it takes a lot of the limbic retraining is not about your mental illness. It’s about that protective mechanism within your body that just happens to be a little awry. Right. Like it doesn’t need to protect you from a tiger now unless the tiger is still here, in which case you let it do its job.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Yeah. You know, and I think one of the misconceptions with limbic system retraining is I think there are people that think that those people that are promoting their systems of limbic system retraining or suggesting that if you just do limbic system retraining, you don’t need to do anything with your moldy house. You just stop, stop, stop it. My brain stuck in a rut. And whatever system you’re doing that, that is not the message that I’m hearing those people send. I’ve had this conversation with Honey Hopper. If somebody was in the moldy house, if their tiger was still a tiger, she absolutely would suggest that. Yes, you want to address that issue, tiger. And then the limbic system work can really help once the tiger has been addressed and you’re now seeing a kitten.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Nice. I love it. I think that’s one of the most important distinctions. You know, for all the reasons we set out, I need to reiterate. But I just think it just thank you for pulling that out because I do think that a lot of times people are like saying it’s the one stop shop and it’s really it’s a piece of a comprehensive treatment. And it’s also different than just mental health. This is a nervous neurologic protective mechanism that’s actually doing its job so long as we get rid of the tiger or in my case, I like saber tooth tiger. So so when we move on, you know, and with nutrition and hydration, the microbiome and health, you have that as step seven. Coming up next. What’s your take on this thing? And I mean, so many people are talking about it, but what’s the critical take from here?

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

So I want to touch on step six because that I think is probably one of the most oh.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Sorry, I actually scrolled one past steps. Now, step six is one of the most important ones to look at. Sorry, I just like, scrolled my page. No worries sheet in front of me.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

So a lot of step six people will know about and I’m not going to go into great detail on, you know, this is the stabilization of the mast cells, the reducing inflammation, but also the modulation of the immune response. So coming back to why step nine is step nine, because I think getting healthy is not about killing the bugs. The bug does not make the disease. It is our host response to the bug that makes the disease. So if we have an immune system that is hyperactive overactive, hyper vigilant and responding in an autoimmune fashion, that is what’s creating a lot of the symptoms that we experience as our disease process. And so a lot of the inflammation is being driven by mass cell activation syndrome and histamine. Thinking about some of the key triggers for mass cell activation mold is a top trigger. The step two that we talked about, EMFs, are a significant trigger. 

Step two that we talked about. In fact, I was blown away years ago. More people talk about this now. But at a conference many years ago, Dr. Theo Harris said that mast cells are ten times more activated in the presence of a cell phone. And I thought I had already understood a reasonable amount of this. And for me, that was like, wait a minute, rewind. What did he actually say? Ten times more activated in the presence, a cell phone. So there’s lots of things that we can look at. Obviously, low histamine diets and things of that nature certainly play a role. But exploring the mass so piece, I tend to think of mass cell activation a little bit differently than some. I think there are some people, brilliant people not taking anything away from them. Some of them are also mentors of mine that think of mass cell activation as kind of the core issue, the core condition. I tend to think of it more as the result of some other trigger, just like inflammation. So while we’re working to stabilize the mast cells, reducing histamine, bringing in some good tools, quercetin, luteal and holy basil, all of those kinds of things we want to be working on what was triggering the mast cell activation and reducing or eliminating that at the same time. Then we can look at things for inflammation, a lot of the pro resolving mediators or spms, I think those are getting a lot of interest in the last couple of years. 

The immune modulation piece again is so critical. Low dose immunotherapy for me personally has been tremendously helpful. Low dose naltrexone I think plays a role. I don’t think that it’s helpful for everyone, but I think it’s helpful for a lot of people. And I think right now, again, with a lot of the immune dysregulation people are experiencing, post-COVID, I think low dose Naltrexone has a significant place. Homoeopathy can be great. And then I also like a lot of the work in this realm that Dr. Samuel Yanek has put together. I mean, he’s just incredible. And he’s also got some products that he’s formulated that can also help with to want to modulation. Actually, just very recently started diving a little bit deeper in this realm into para probiotics. I think that also is something new on the scene that’s going to have a potentially significant role in this immune modulation conversation. And then just remembering that getting well is not about boosting the immune system. Boosting the immune system often makes things worse. It’s about modulation, calming, integrating with our microbiome, you know, being one and kumbaya and all that kind of stuff together. Right. It’s not a fight. It’s not a battle. I don’t think that’s the best approach. The last thing I’ll mention here in step six that I think also can be fantastic. And you mentioned in our conversation earlier, Dr. Nafisa Tapia, she is one of the experts in this realm, which is the peptides. So looking at things like thymus and Alpha One, which unfortunately is more difficult now to get KPC and BPC and TB4 and Diamond, there’s so many things here, but I think that step six with this modulation piece is probably where the peptides play potentially the most significant role.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Yeah. And it’s interesting too with peptides because we know that Nafisa and Eric Gordon are on the summit with us. We talked to Ken Holtorf and some other folks too who use a lot of peptides and I find it’s just, it’s literally it is really about when to utilize them and like a kid with patterns and a person limb mold where I might utilize, say, thymus and Alpha one as, as the example would be completely at a different stage based upon their unique individuality, as you mentioned before, as well as what’s going on. Right, and what the underlying driver is. So I think that those are really important highlights. I’m glad you did. So where do we move from step six.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

So step seven, this is foundational hydration, nutrition, looking at the microbiome, the gut health piece. So I think hydration is more important than we give credit for. Most people in this realm are drinking lots of water, peeing it all out, have low antidiabetic hormone, are still cellular dehydrated. So, you know, personally, I distill my water, I remineralized it, I structure it. And I think we do want to think about what are we doing to have water that’s going to be supportive of our healing process? We drink so much water in the course of a day, we want to optimize it as much as possible. Sometimes with electrolytes, sometimes with trace minerals, a little bit of sea salt, those types of things. 

There’s a lot of different tools now that are available for structuring water. I think the Natural Action Water System was one of the early ones that I learned about at a Clean Heart conference many years ago, but many new ones that are available now and then looking at from a gut perspective, what can we do to remove those things that are triggering? So gluten, in my opinion, is just something that no one with these conditions should be challenging their body with. I think Cowdrey for many people is going to be bad sugar, obviously not ideal, especially refined sugars, high histamine foods probably going to be bad for many people. In fact, I would say that a low histamine diet in this population of people with Lyme and mold related issues is probably the one that I’ve seen move the needle most consistently. And so looking then at what can we do to also make sure that what we are consuming is this highly nutrient dense as possible? So for me, that’s a power shake every morning that’s got healthy fats and healthy proteins and high quality protein fibers, phospholipids, phosphatidylcholine, all of that kind of stuff has just been absolutely incredible. And then also we’re talking still about how to support the gut and the microbiome. I am a big fan of some of the spore based probiotics. The mega spore biotic, I think is great. One of the reasons that I like it is because it’s well-tolerated generally speaking, even in people with meso activation or SIBO and provides a lot of those keystone strains that can really help optimize our microbial diversity and also helps to support the inflammation. The immune modulation can be helpful for leaky gut or intestinal hyper permeability as well. So lots of things here that are really just making sure that hydration, nutrition are also dialed in and supportive of our healing process.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Very cool. Yeah. I mean, I think it’s so well thought out. I mean, the optimizing, the hydration, it’s just not about picking out like as much water as possible, but that re mineralization and optimizing absorption because I just again, my brain goes back to all the things you said and then I’m thinking, hey, my lymphatics and the detoxification of the brain, well, that’s like 99% water. And with just some very special sol you, it’s in it. So it’s like this is like you said, you know, getting under and supporting the immune system in the whole body and doing its normal work, not making it overactive or underactive. And it kind of all works together. So and then in terms of like as we go forward with our next steps here where we kind of coming in is I think step, it’s a whole bunch of things like the mitochondrial support, the coagulation, adrenals, even CPU things that I know we talk so much about. But what are kind of the key standouts for you here in this one? Yeah.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Yeah. So I mean, I think we have talked for years about adrenals. I think that’s still important to consider supporting the adrenals. But over the past few years, what has become more clear to me is the importance of supporting the mitochondria that we need, that cellular energy, that ATP to do essentially everything, whether that’s to detox, to function, to repair. So incorporating things that can help support the mitochondria. With the one caveat being that if someone is stuck in a cell danger response, we have to be a little cautious about how aggressive we are with supporting some of these mitochondrial pieces so low and slow, I think is important. We also in step eight talk about Cryptopia Luria, which also comes from Dr. Kling hard. I’ve written articles with him on that that people can go explore and then the hyper coagulation piece is also part of what I look at in step eight. So I think this was critical and often overlooked even before the pandemic, but I think now it’s even more significant. So if we have thick blood, we’re not getting nutrient or even medication delivery deep into the body. We’re also not then removing toxins optimally. So looking at things like natto, kinase or beluga or other enzymes that can help even pulsed electromagnetic field therapy I think plays a role here as well in helping with that. Microcirculation So coagulation, I would say, is actually one of the areas that I would urge people to talk with their practitioner about, because I think it’s super common that it is being missed in this overall conversation.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more and definitely like talking with your provider about the hyper coagulation and it’s not just about slamming in some enzymes, although it can be helpful. But I think it’s so important. And the CPU is one that like, you know, the amount, the amount of understanding that we have in there is not as much as we need. But I think it is so critical and it often for me when I learned about it from Dietrich and then studied some more of the work you guys are doing, part of it is drives a lot of the symptomology that we see with people when we start to treat them to have a better understanding of their reactions. 

So another super I love it because it’s just like the structure of this is great and I’m like, I can see like these little hooks and like the things I’ve learned over the years of where it comes from. And I love structure, you know, because then once you have that structure shot right, then you can actually be the artist that helps that unique individual in front of you heal when you’re just kind of not putting it in a structure. So again, like just to highlight, like what Scott saying is this isn’t like the one size fits all protocol, but man, this is one of the most well thought out hierarchies to think about. And without further ado, the nuclear bomb and large quantities of I.V. antibiotics. But just kidding.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Yeah. So step nine, I tend to think and in working with some of the practitioners I work with early on, it would have been hard for me to believe this as well. But what I’ve seen time and time again is if we get a lot of the eight steps right that we talked about, that when we get to step nine, we can often use a feather rather than a hammer. So finding the right tool for whatever the specific situation is, when we’re looking at step nine, I know you’ve got lots of people on the summit talking about this, so I’ll be a little more brief here, but I tend to think of starting a little bit more with the viral and retroviral pieces. I think that a lot of people’s symptoms are driven from Epstein-Barr virus, herpes, zoster, those types of things. 

And I also tend to observe that the things can use, especially the natural options in support of the viral piece are generally pretty well-tolerated. They’re not things that you see these huge Turkheimer reactions from. So the viral retroviral piece, then thinking about parasites and related issues, then I would think about more of the fungal, the yeast, the mold piece. There is the potential for colonization from water damaged buildings that we need to think about and then kind of Lyme and co-infections. I still tend to kind of put that at the end even of step nine and doing that in a manner that initially is somewhat layered, meaning if someone is dealing with Borrelia bartonella and the bees are not using a tool initially, that’s going to go after all of those at the same time. But using something a little more specific, whether that’s beyond balance or Byron White formulas or, you know, new traumatic, I mean, there’s lots of tools that we can use here to, um, layer things one at a time. And then once you’ve kind of, um, layered a lot of these different microbial layers, then we can think about biofilms. I don’t think everybody needs to do biofilm support. I do think some people do, but I don’t think that it’s universal. And then we also might then move in to either something that’s more broad spectrum that provides longer term support. You know, maybe propolis, for example, comes to mind as a really broad spectrum tool or looking at what we can then do to shift into more of a maintenance mode or pulse strategy. I mean, the goal would be that people can get off of these things, but there certainly are going to be some people I mean, look at the world we live in, the stress, all of the things that might lead some of these microbes to reactivate. I personally don’t think that we ever fully eradicate Borrelia Bartonella and Babesia do. I think that I still have some of those in my system? Sure. Does that bother? No, not a lot, because it’s not leading to any symptoms. And I think lots of people carry these microbes and it’s not leading to any symptoms. So really is thinking about once we get to step nine, what are some of the tools that we can use that are going to support the body but also not create these huge I’m not one of those people that thinks that we have to have a huge Turkheimer reaction to know that we’re moving in the right direction.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

It’s there for some reason. I grew up this way and I just think I just want to say, like, I’ll be a preacher and I know I’m just joking, but it’s like, you don’t need to get annihilated to get better. And, you know, like I said, like, I have no way to figure out if I’m cured or not. Right? Other than I feel great. And if I get tired because I didn’t sleep or I overdid it. If I sleep, I feel fine. You know, it’s not like it used to be where I had all that long, prolonged response to really minor insults. And so I agree. Like, I don’t know if I have Lyme in my body. I mean, maybe I do, maybe I don’t, you know, I had untreated bartonella for the better part of our sorry babesia for the better part of a decade. Like, you know, after the initial tick bite, we’re only got the doxy for ten days. 

I have no idea. But my body is healthy enough that there’s nothing there, you know? So I really think I. I love you highlighting that because it’s not just you’re never going to sterile humans sterilize the human body. In fact, we don’t want a sterile body that’s over sterilization of our food supply in our body is probably one of the reasons we’re so susceptible to so many of these things. But I do think it’s a critical highlight. And then that’s interesting that because I know that a lot of the you know, like I said, like the conferences where I first started to run into you, we were talking a lot about step ten with these dental contributors. And but now it’s step ten, which is even past step nine. So and, you know, there’s so many people are like, Hey, I listen to Klinghoffer or I listen to Scott now I have to go get my cavitation mixed up. What’s going on here and why is it so far at the end?

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Yeah. So I mean, I think people probably know a lot about amalgams, root canals, all of that. The cavitation piece was the one I remember reading a book years ago from Perry Fields. I think it was called The Tick Slayer. I don’t remember 100%. And I read her chapter on her cavitation. And in fact, I think I was doing a coffee enema at the time, by the way, and I went, Oh my gosh. So I’m like, I’m so glad I never had to deal with this. Well, subsequent to that, I went to a conference with Simon U and said, Hey, I’m in town, why don’t I have a consult with you? And the first thing that he picked up was are you have a dental problem. So I did have to go down that path of cavitation. I think part of the reason that I put this towards the end, there are going to be people where it absolutely needs to be further up in the process. But I do think that you want the body to be in a better overall state before you do something that is significant and aggressive and requires the body to have resources to heal and capitation surgeries. 

While it was not nearly as significant as I had imagined prior to having it done, in terms of the difficulty, I mean, my anxiety going into it was pretty significant, but it was actually relatively straightforward. I think that we want the body to be supported as much as possible. If you were to talk to Dr. Simon, you commonly before getting into the dental work, he’s going to talk about addressing the parasite piece first. And if you talk to Dr. Klinger before getting into the dental work, and I think years ago he actually prioritized the dental work earlier, but now he would say that the retroviral the endogenous retroviral activation plays a role in how well people tolerate these procedures, how well they recover from them complications, the overall outcome and so on. So part of the reason that I think this comes later is because we do want to address not only those foundational items, but some of the retroviruses, some of the parasites, and even some of the co-infections that we know can play a role. 

Bartonella and even BBC, a play significant roles in terms of cavitation and jaw related issues. So I do think that this piece is important. I do also think that it’s a piece where you want to ensure that you facilitate a conversation between your dentist and your oral surgeon or your dentist or your oral surgeon and whoever the captain of your ship is, whether that’s Dr. Tom or Kroft or whoever, you want to make sure that your entire team agrees that it’s the right time to do this work and that you have that broad support planned out in your protocol because that that strategy just works much better than kind of going down one path. And then your Lyme doctor isn’t familiar with what you’re actually doing here. So I do think it’s important, but I think there’s a lot of things we want to do first to prepare the body to be able to tolerate these types of procedures.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

You know, and I really love this guy because one of the things that comes up a lot when I’m chatting with people, it’s not just knowing the right thing to do, but it’s the right order to do it in. And one of the things I say almost every interview is one of my goals in this summit is for people to hear from experts like yourself and patients who have recovered and gone through a lot of this, wasting time and money in going in the wrong order or maybe just learning so we can share with other people. So it’s not truly a waste. But I mean, we’ve got some of the stuff I did in the beginning. I was just like, Oh my God, I would never do this to one of my patients, right? But I’ve done it to myself before. But it’s really about that knowing what order to do it in. But in the summit, I’m trying to have people stop comparing themselves to other people, learn from other people, but then put it into that structure with your whole team agreeing, I just love the way you said that. And that’s the part that makes me want to do this summit is hearing statements like that. So thank you. Thank you. And what’s beautiful is after such a wonderful statement like that, where it’s like, hey, we’re bringing we’re going to make sure it’s at the right time for you so that you actually do heal.

Now that we’ve arrived on the doorstep of health and healing, which is the reason I got in the medicine, was to help people stay healthy, not to help them recover their health. I just happened to be presented with a very unique proposition by one patient where no one else could help them. So I did. But what in this final step you talk about regeneration and restoration. Two words that even when I say them, make me slow way down and feel so good. So can you tell us more about these? Yeah. So, you know, the analogy that I like here is from Dr. David Jernigan, and he talks about a lot of the microbes and other things kind of being the termites that we’ve addressed, the termites in step nine and the foundation that we built that upon. But then there may be some structural damage that we need to go back and repair.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Are many people I mean, I think it’s good now that oftentimes people can get to a diagnosis a little faster. There’s more doctors that are working in this realm, but still, people are often going for years or decades before the pieces finally aligned for them. So when we get into this realm of regeneration and restoration, what are some of the things that I’m thinking about hormone therapy or bioidentical hormone replacement therapy? Can be helpful in this realm. Now, again, that could come earlier, but at the same time, if someone’s still in a cell danger response, sometimes the body is intelligently down, regulating the production of some of these hormones down, regulating metabolism in more of a protective response. 

So, yes, could thyroid support come in earlier? Could progesterone come in earlier for supporting sleep? Very possibly. But once we get through a lot of those things that are triggering a cell danger response, I think that’s maybe a more logical place to benefit from some of these hormone replacement therapy. I’m a huge fan of Phospholipids, whether that’s the power shake or doing like the IV. Patricia Cain Protocol with Phosphatidylcholine and Glutathione and Phenol, Butyrate and all of those types of things I think can be fantastic. So that cell membrane health, I think, is also more important than than many people recognize and a definitely an area to learn about and focus on the peptides. I talked about being supportive in step six, but I also think they emerge as very strong tools in this repair or restoration regeneration process. Things like PPC 157, for example, can be really, really helpful. I’m a huge fan here of photo bio modulation or red light therapy. So rebuilding, you know, Borrelia and other organisms feed on collagen and so structural. We have lots of things that are affecting our collagen. So if we can use things like red light therapy to support the mitochondria, to support our collagen, to give our body more photons, more vital force, I think those can be tremendous. I’m also a huge fan of exercise with oxygen therapy when we get to this realm. So things like live O2 or live O2 that can really help to hyper saturate the body with oxygen can be very restorative. And you know, there’s a lot of things that I don’t yet feel super excited about that I’m constantly watching. So stem cells and exosomes, I think all of that is evolving. Personally, I haven’t seen stem cells be significant for people that are dealing with systemic, chronic Lyme disease. But, you know, I’m glad that these things are still moving forward because I think there will be more application of a lot of these technologies in the future. But that’s what I would think about in this restoration regeneration realm. The termites are gone or a non-issue. What do we do to kind of repair our body from a structural perspective?

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

And I say I love it because then you’re also maintaining your health. The whole goal for me is I think everybody listening here has this unique light in their heart to shine with the world. And like, you know, a lot of times they feel like Lyme in the co-infections and the mold and everything is just kind of taking away our passion and really become our life rather than a part of our lives that we’re experiencing and then moving beyond. So once we get to this place, we’re on that threshold rebuilding, like you say, is so critical because I want people to be able to go out and live their best life, shine that light on the world, and really maintain their own health so that there’s plenty more people for folks like yourself and myself to help. So I just think it’s so critical to not just stop. I see a lot of people like just stop and it’s like they come back like six or eight months later. Well, something else happened. 

I’m like, well, I know, because that’s like at the beginning I said, when we get to this, when we get to this first visit for the second time, where I welcome you as a healed person, and it’s time to move now to make that plan. That’s probably the second most important visit. It’s like that first one. And then there’s that last one where we re initiate and we start to talk as you as that fully healed person so that you can stay there. So, Scott, I mean, this is like a tour de force of like everything you’ve been through in your 20 some year healing journey. 

And I mean, I just so much gratitude for you showing up today to share this with us and also for all the work you do is Better Health Guy with the blog cast and everything else you’re working on with TFI and oh my gosh. So as we kind of land this bad boy because this has been whew, so good and I love it. I love the structure and the thinking and sharing and what you’ll notice everybody’s not everyone in the summit is going to 100% agree with Scott with where to put it or what he said. And that’s the beauty. But what you’re getting from Scott, not only is decade of personal and professional experience and research and the super passion, but you’re getting a structure that so commonly is not thought about. And that’s the part that’s so important here. It’s not that we all agree, and like I always say, it’s like, have all the tools and then put the tool belt on the ground because you can always reach it and then we can sit there and have a conversation with you as a unique individual. So I’m sure, Scott, people are going to want to learn more about what you’re doing. How can they, you know, any closing words and also include how like folks can reach out and follow your work.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Yeah. So they can find me at betterhealthguide.com they can contact me the site as well. I’m happy to respond to people. I want to mention that I also am on the board of Directors of the Limelight Foundation, which has just been such a blessing for me. It’s actually ten years this year that I’ve been working with Limelight Foundation and we are an organization that provides treatment grants to children and young adults 25 and under for treatment of Lyme disease. I think we just crossed over $8 million recently, two grant recipients in 49 states. So if someone’s listening and they’re in need of that support or they’re in a position to support that work, please come and check out LimelightFoundation.org. 

And then I guess my last comment would be just to not lose hope, don’t give up. So much has changed in our understanding of these conditions even from just a few years ago. I mean, we weren’t talking so much about SIBO and mass cell activation, you know, six, seven years ago. And, you know, peptides are relatively new on the scene. There’s so many things I feel like the pace at which new tools and new solutions are being rolled out is really significant. Research is happening. Now that wasn’t happening. There were so many years when I was trying to learn all about Lyme disease and I kind of felt like there’s just not a lot new that’s happening that has completely shifted and changed. And so there is hope and people do get better. And I just think that’s so important for people to hold on to that.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

I couldn’t agree more, man. That just like resonates with everything that I’m all about. And it is. We’ve had so much more interest recently and so much more, you know, it. And one thing I want to add too, is that there are actually a ton of people working on your behalf in the background that you may not have ever even heard of, and hopefully people have heard about limelight. It’s funny, I was you know, I have Scott’s cards, the other Scott from Limelight Foundation in my in my cell phone little sleeve there because I’m like, I’m going to see if he’ll come share just a little bit because I think more people need to know about Limelight and what they’re doing. It’s helped so many of the people in my practice and every time anybody asks me, they’re like, Oh, I’m so sorry, but would you mind writing a letter for me to get support from my mind? I’m like, That’s a pleasure to do that. One, you’re taking action on your behalf and people like, you know, you and everyone else is on the board. There are just I mean, what a great thing to be doing. And so also anybody listening who happens to have a little bit of money, they like donate to help other people who may be less fortunate. One of the things, Scott, that I do have is we have a summit resource page. I’ll make sure I put links to all the ways they can get in touch with you. I mean, betterhealthguide.coms. Pretty easy to remember, but we’ll put it in a clickable form. But we’ll also put some information how they can reach over to Limelight Foundation. And I mean, they have really helped people in our practice and other people who call needing help. So thanks for bringing that up here to make sure that I remember to put there of because that’s really what we do this for. We want other people we not only do we want everybody here listening to have access to all this amazing information, but we also want people to have access to care. And if you can’t afford it, this is searching an amazing organization. So we’ll make sure that we, you know, get the word out as well. So and thank you again. Men are such a pleasure. Make my heart like thing because it’s like, yeah, we’re right on the same page. We say it a little different. We might do it in a slightly different order on paper because we all are treating the unique person in front of us. But men, the key points are just the ones that just make me go. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. So thanks again. Scott’s an honor to have you here, everyone. Scott, for again, the better health guy.

Scott Forsgren, FDN-P

Thanks, Dr. Tom.

Thomas Moorcroft, DO

All right, and everyone, thank you for spending the time to listen to this interview. Scott and I were talking about how long we’re going to go, and it just got so good. We had to we had to make sure we didn’t skimp on anything. So thanks for spending your time with us and learning from Scott being a part of this summit and its success and getting the word out to others. And until next time, I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Healing from Lyme Disease Summit.