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Lyme/Brain and What to do About it

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  • Dr Gutierrez’s background and research with Lyme disease.
  • Lyme/Brain explored.
  • 8 step process to Detox your Brain Simple things we can all do to improve our Brain health.
Chronic Illness
Robby Besner PSc.D.

Hey, everybody. It’s Robby Besner. We’re back with an amazing episode in our live series. And today, man, you thought you’ve heard stuff before you won’t believe what’s gonna come out from this interview in just a few minutes. I have a dear friend, I’ve known her for years. She’s been studying brain detoxing and brain everything for at least two decades. So today, we’re gonna talk about Lyme brain. And I know everybody out there can relate to this, in one way or another. 

So let me bring Dr. Jacqueline Gutierrez, to the stage to help you hotline. Jacqueline, Dr. Jacqueline, welcome to Healthy Hotline. By the way, just before we start, let me tell you how you can get ahold of her. She’s got an amazing clinic on the Pacific Northwest area of the country. It’s called the Wellness Trinity Clinic or, and you can get her at www.thewellnesstrinity.com. Or you can email her at [email protected]. I hope I said that right. But Dr. Jacqueline, Lyme brain, what a topic. I mean, we all know about the heart-brain connection, the gut-brain connection, the gut-heart connection. 

And now let’s just talk about the brain-brain connection, because it seems like everything comes back to the brain and how it affects us. And you have a unique protocol for all you guys out there that is a eight step fully turn key from the beginning to the end, a brain detox program. That before we’re done with this interview, you all have to know about because it’s a game changer. So Dr. Jacqueline, let’s talk about Lyme brain. Let’s talk about your Lyme experience. But before we go there, just give us a little bit of a backdrop of sort of like about your clinic, how you got exposed to Lyme in your clinic. It’s all over the country, so we know it’s there. But you particularly, have some insights that are super special. So give us a little bit of backdrop of like, a little bit about your background, not much, but just enough to get us all at the edge of our seats. And then tell us like, what brings you to our discussions today and why you decided to focus on the brain? And why is that so important?


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

All right. Well, thank you so much, Robby, for inviting me to this. You know, it just a really big honor to be amongst all these experts and talking about Lyme. I didn’t think I really needed to dive in deep in Lyme. In the beginning, when I first started all this until I worked at Socorro Bio-sciences for about nine months. And I kept hearing Lyme, Lyme, Lyme. All over and over, and over again. And I’m like, okay, there’s something about this topic that I need to dive in and understand more because apparently, it’s a big issue. And so, a lot of my research with Lyme started with their work. 

And I read every article that they had on the website. And the one thing that really struck me was 45% of the country has Lyme. That’s about half. And, you know, a lot of times statistics are not necessarily the most accurate and I think there are a lot under, there actually underneath what they really are. And when you think about the mental health, that challenges that are going on in society and how much they’re correlated with Lyme and co-infections, you know, it really makes me think this is a lot bigger problem than we’re actually saying that it is. So my cerebral detox program gave birth a few years ago when I was really trying to narrow down my niche. And my branding coach was like, Jacqueline, you know, you need to kind of not be all over the place, basically. And, you know, when you’re thinking that way, it can be very scary. ‘Cause I’m like, well, I want to help everybody, you know.


Robby Besner PSc.D.



Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

But you know, something about mental health really struck me. You know, my dad died of cancer and a lot of times you think your story is your niche, right? And that was a big part of my story, but I wasn’t really quite drawn to cancer as I’m as much as I was drawn to mental wellness. And I think part of the reason was, now on my mom’s side, I came from a family of craziness.


Robby Besner PSc.D.



Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

So that really struck a chord in me. I’m like, okay, there’s something about this. And this is before 2020 happened. So I started putting this program together and all these different pieces of mental wellness kept coming to me. I’m like, wow, these neurotransmitters affect our mood. Our frequencies affect our mood. And, you know, flower remedies can help balance us. And when our body’s imbalance, it greatly affects how we act in society, how much money we make, how our relationships are, et cetera. So to add the Lyme piece on top of that was just, you know, a golden nugget. I mean, that has something that also needs to be dealt with, as well as all these other pieces of the puzzle.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Right. Wow, really cool. You know, for people that are just tuning in, CellCore is a company that Therasage and our company is behind because they make unusual products. And I love their binders. And they’ve got a full array now than they keep building on their core programs for both cleansing from parasites and microorganisms, as well as using certain binders that we use in our protocols to help collect the toxins that we liberate with our infrared technology. And so I kind of see that. 

But this whole brain thing, I mean, I understand how, why it’s important to detox the brain. And from someone that you introduced me to, Dr. Allen Lindsley. I got to understand even more about something that’s been intriguing me forever, about how the Lyme spirochete and the co-infections actually act as a carrier or a transporter of mold into the brain. But ultimately, this is the reasons why we have brain fog. This is the reasons why we have emotional changes and so forth. And as you pointed out the statistics, 45%, I mean, I’ve been teaching at Hippocrates, the Health Institute in Florida for 20 years. And 20 years ago, because I have a Lyme background. I asked everybody in my class. 

You know, how many of you have Lyme or know someone. Maybe one or two, out of 50 people would raise their hands. After 10 years, from one or two, it can became 30 to 40% of the people in my classes. Either had Lyme were there to help themselves from Lyme or knew a family that had Lyme. And now the numbers are in the eighties to 90 percentile. So these numbers that you’re talking about, because Lyme and itself mimics so many other diseases that there are people that are still walking around in our country that are being misdiagnosed. 

So they have this have symptoms of MS. They see the doctor, the traditional doctor that may not be Lyme literal, are looking for that, asking the right questions. They say, well, you’re presenting like MS, so we’re gonna treat you for MS. So they’re not treating for you for what you have, which is Lyme. And they’re treating for you for what you don’t have which is MS. I can’t think of a worst combination than that. So that’s why it’s so important that we hear from you today, and get these insights. Because of course, people out there in Lyme land listening today, they can truly appreciate you and the things that you focused on. And so we’re so appreciative that you’re actually telling us more about this Lyme brain and the Lyme connection. And then of course, giving us some helpful hints and solutions as to how to work through this. So continue with your discussion because it’s so important.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

So, you know, one thing I want to know is between 1993 and 2012, the CDC stated that Lyme disease increased about 300% in high risk areas in United States. So that’s how many years ago at this point, but the fact that it increased that much, I mean, we should really be asking why is this happening? And you know, from my studies, I could see the correlation largely with a toxicity issue. We are just dumping chemicals in the environment from planes, in our food, in our water. And I mean, everything you can think of, that’s why I love your technologies. 

Because like he’s helping clean this stuff up. So anyways, the toxicity is a huge piece of the puzzle. When people have Lyme disease, their immune system is compromised, and that’s a lot of reason why these bugs will get out of control. We can co-exist with these bugs sometimes, but then that doesn’t mean that we can’t get tipped over the edge. And when we have something like toxicity in the environment and in our body, the more that we have toxicity, we’re finding a correlation with more Lyme disease as well, too. In the Radium belt, in the US, there’s a very direct correlation. 

The more that people are not being exposed to Radium, the more that they’re having Lyme disease as well. So Lyme really affects the joints. It loves collagen, it loves protein. And, you know, it’s really affecting the neurotransmitters as well as that, as a result because they like to eat our protein as well too, and their co-infections. So something I wanted to make a note of is that, there’s a couple of things that are happening in our world at this point that are causing an escalate. It’s not even just back in 2012 and before that. You know, right now, think about last year 2020 was off the hook, right? There was so many random things, random I say, ’cause I think they were planned. But that’s a whole different story in itself. But let’s talk about the fires for example. 


We had so many fires. I was in the middle of them. It was very scary. I thought I was gonna die for many days and it really tipped my immune system over the edge. So I had to really take care of myself over that. But deforestation is actually, there’s a book that I read about Babesia. And it was talking about how deforestation is actually causing more Babesia, which Babesia is aligned co-infection. Babesia and Bartonella are two co-infections with Lyme, that tend to exist with Lyme. And Babesia has a little protozoa. It’s like a little parasite basically, that can get in ourselves and rob its nutrients, and its oxygen. And eventually, it explodes and finds a new place to live. So a Bartonella acts pretty similar in that way too. 

So the correlation with deforest, is we are lowering the oxygen in our environment. You know, there’s other things that are going on as well too, with lowering the oxygen, if you can only guess. What we’ve been doing all year. And so, you know, when we are doing things like cutting the forest down, wearing masks, and anything else that is lowering our oxygen levels, we are creating an environment in our body where these bugs like to harbor and they live. A lot of them like to live in anaerobic environments. Same thing with mold. And if people have mold, then they’re more likely to have a worse issues with Lyme as well, too. And obviously, the brain fog and fatigue, and all that, that can come with it. So deforestation, so that’s one thing. The decrease in wildlife. You know, as we’re cutting the forest down, we’re also decreasing the wildlife while we’re doing that too. 

So what’s happening with these bugs is that, they’re actually jumping species. So some of these bugs, like Babesia have been around for a very long period of time. And now they’re going up the food chain and they’re coming into deer, and they’re coming into humans as a result of the smaller species that they might’ve been living in. So that’s another thing that we have to think about. 

You know, how are we treating our planet? You know, we have to look at this at a macro level, if we’re going to solve these human issues. And then, here’s another thing. You know, I had a lot of people that have lost jobs in the last year and have become homeless. I mean, these major cities in the US like LA, San Francisco, Portland. You know, I’m very familiar with West Coast. So I don’t know what’s exactly going on in your side of the country. But I assume, that’s happening over there too, probably, New York. 

There’s a lot of homelessness. I’ve never seen this in my life before. And I grew up in the Bay Area in California. And you know, it’s so sad. I’ve never saw that growing up and to see the streets lying with homeless people, and Portland as well. I mean, it’s just, it’s trashed. There’s homeless people everywhere. And it breaks my heart. You know, we don’t know why they got there, but there’s actually a correlation with the amount of homeless people and the lights that they carry, can actually carry Bartonella, which is the other coinfection in addition to Babesia, that’s very common. So those are a couple of things that have been going on in society lately that I believe are just feeding into this. You know, this is another thing that we can think of as a pandemic as well. We did a talk yesterday on parasites. But you know, this is a whole another side of the story that we have to look at and if we want people to be healthy.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

So, I get that. That’s the global challenges. The people we’re talking today, Some of them are laying up in bed because they having a harks reaction. Some of them are fully functioning, but they just have episodes from time to time. So they’re all looking for optimal health. But all of the people listening in the Lyme world, they’re all affected by Lyme brain, one way or another, some more than others. As we all know that these co-infections and alignment self can cross over the blood brain barrier. And so they have a competitive advantage in harboring in places that aren’t well oxygenated, like you said, and aren’t well, don’t have exorbitant blood flows, so that they can find peace there. 

And basically, because they are parasites, they’re by nature, well, by definition. They feed off of their hosts which is us. Now for the longest time, a lot of these organisms microorganisms, the microbiome has somewhat imbalanced because of just the way the symbiotic relationships of all these things. And we have more than 60,000 organisms that live in harmony inside of us until of late, really the last decade. We’ve got glyphosate, that’s really causing havoc on, in so many ways in our bodies, environmental challenges. And then everybody out there, that’s got a symptom at all. But certainly, a Lyme symptom. It’s a result of toxicity like you say. Then toxicity and inflammation travel on the same highway. 

So if we can lower the toxic burden on the body, it’s not necessarily getting rid of the underlying cause of the toxicity. But certainly, a lot of these symptoms, food allergies, chemical sensitivities, brain fog, things like that can start to slowly go away. And all that does, is gives the Lyme community somewhat of their lives back. And also, buys time for them to go after the root cause and work with their skilled technicians and practitioners, and so forth. To really go after the underlying cause and create more of a harmonic balance homeostasis within their own internal environments. 

Of course, it’s individual, it expresses itself differently in everyone. But they still need to understand that there’s ways to go about this, to get back, to get your life back in a sense. And I think detox is a big word that we use. And here you are a specialist in brain detox. And so being as such, that’s a place that is some people don’t really go, don’t really know how to go there. Let’s talk more about that. Let’s talk about the co-infections like how do they affect the brain anyway? Like how is it interrupting the neural pathways and all that stuff that creates that brain fog. Talk a little bit about that mechanism, if you would.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

Well, I have a couple of theories of why Lyme affects the brain. First of all, these infections, Lyme and the co-infections, they’re small and they travel systemically in our bloodstream. So our blood sugar goes all around our body, including our brain, and it can also infect in our spinal fluid. And so that spinal fluid can also cross the blood-brain barrier and cause infections in the brain as well, that way. So Lyme also damages the nervous system and the brain is a part of that as well. It produces neurotoxins, which are basically chemicals that disrupt nerve cells. And so, those neurotoxins will just throw the brain’s chemistry out of balance. And that can cause alterations in the neuro-transmitters, which are the chemical messengers that are in our brain that make us happy or sad or- 

Well, if you don’t have enough of them, you’re gonna have the negative emotion associated with it. It can make you focus, they can make you not be able to concentrate. You know, the other side of it. It can give you a sense of bliss. It can help you to calm down when you need to. So we need those neurotransmitters firing, if we’re going to have our brain functioning right to. And the Lyme and co-infections, they produce chemicals that disrupt the neurotransmitter production and certain types of co-infections like Babesia. 

They actually like protein, which will affect the neurotransmitter production as well. So all that said, this causes brain inflammation. And these bugs will poke holes in the blood brain barrier. And then now you have leaky brain. So we talk about leaky gut a lot. There’s leaky heart as well, leaky, any part of our body can really become leaky. You can have leaky lungs, but we can also have leaky brain. And so the chemicals and everything that’s supposed to be inside our brain are not gonna be able to function right. It could be leaking into the bloodstream and not being able to do their job. So those are a couple of things. 

And the other thing is, our body is mostly oxygen. It’s like 65% oxygen. And about 20 to 25% of the oxygen goes to our brain. So when we have an environment in the body that’s low oxygen, we’re gonna have more of a chance of having Lyme and Lyme co-infections because they like that anaerobic environment. But the other side of it is, they can also start to rob our oxygen too. So that really can disrupt the brain as well. And there’s a lot of mitochondria that are in all the brain cells. So 5,000 to 10,000 mitochondria in a brain cell, which is one of the most in parts of the body where you have mitochondria. And so if you’re not producing the ATP, because now you have neurotoxins, your brain is just not gonna function well. And you also need, you need food and you need oxygen to be able to produce that ATP in the mitochondria.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Right. So now we’ve got leaky brain and leaky everything. We have the neurotransmitter interruption. So basically, the neuro-transmitters and the synapses between each of your neurons or your nerve endings, is the spark that communicates the information that the brain is trying to send to your body, your organs, your muscles, all of your systems to work. So if those synapses, if there’s an impairment in that neurotransmitter, then half a third, maybe none of the information is going to where it’s got to go. 

So the brain is kind of, got its function in place, but it can’t get the information out in order for the body to respond appropriately, which could lead to, or could be a cause of a suppressed immune system for instance. And things along that nature, which plays into the hand of, and creating more of that imbalance. So it allows these little bad boys. I call them, the bad bugs, to have an upper hand and create more havoc. And then do what they’re created to do. Essentially, they’re perfect organisms. They feed off of the host, so they take your food and your life resources, and rob you of your energy. They have one main function which is to replicate. And the second is using your life resources and they produce, they poop, right?


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

Yeah, Lyme poop.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

That’s the third thing. And the poop is the neurotoxin, making us more toxic. So all of those three things perfect for the organism. That’s a great for us. And when you have impaired brain function and you have impaired system function, then you can’t detox properly. Detox pathways are clogged up. As you already pointed out, you’re lowering your oxidative load in your blood or creating more oxidative stress. Okay. And so, all those things will lead to continued imbalances. So I love where we’re going. And one of the other things I wanted to mention is sleep. I mean, it impairs your sleep and everybody’s biorhythms, their krebs cycles, all that stuff is all off, you know.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

Hmm. Right.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Which again, plays into the hand of these microbes and works against us in our overall health. So let’s start to focus a little bit on some of the solutions. So we kind of got the problem. We understand the problem more. Now let’s dive into some of the things that you’ve done creatively in your clinic that you’ve got such great results from and for, helping the brain detox, getting our- That house of cards back in order. Give us some tips as to the best ways to start and what can we expect in a realistic timeframe.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

So based on the person, it’s gonna be different from one person to the next. I mean, when someone comes to me, it’s like, it’s a new project in and of itself, right? So we kept to seek what is their toxic low? What heavy metals do they have? What type of other chemicals do they have? Do they have mold? Do they have parasites? Which I believe everybody has parasites, it’s really just about how much. And actually, really all of that. I think people have all have some form of all those different types of infections and toxicity at certain extent. But being able to identify how much of the toxic burden that someone’s already dealing with. It can be so key. Because I think a lot of times, when people are not doing that, they can really just spin on themselves around the mountain and wonder why holistic health is not helping them, when it actually can, because they’re not really dealing with the whole picture. 

So one, obviously, identifying is key. I think there’s a lot of things that people can do without even doing that. But at some point, you want to make sure you do some testing. And depending on the type of thing that we’re trying to look for, there’s better tests than not, like Lyme and parasites. Forget it, don’t even do lab tests. It’s not really something that is, they’re not the most reliable. It by the time you actually see them on labs, you’re already foregone, you know. And there’s a lot of people that are dealing with these issues that, you know. It’s already manifesting and you can’t see it on a lab. So I don’t even do those with my clients. We look more into bio-frequency testing and as well as doing muscle testing. And I do a thorough intake questionnaire to see where there are, you know with a Lyme. 

But also with all other types of infections and toxins too. So we can see which place we need to focus our attention. But bio-frequency scanning can be so amazing when it comes to this type of work. You can see, depending on the type of bio-frequency scans. You can see all the different types of Borrelia that you have and Babesia, and you can see the heavy metals. And you could get super specific on what it is that’s going on inside of the body. I like to couple my testing. I like doing labs, a thorough intake and the frequency machines, as well as doing muscle testing when appropriate and you know, allowed by the client as well, too. So that’s obviously the first step. And I’m sure a lot of your other guests probably talked about that to a certain extent. The other thing we have to think about too, is that Lyme and parasites, they affect our immune system in a different way. So we have this Th1 and Th2, immune system. And Lyme is affected by is helped with the Th1 and parasites, but Th2. 

So if we have a high parasitic load, which a lot of people do, then we’re not gonna be able to fight the Lyme as well. So we have to lower that parasitic load, so we can deal with the Lyme as well, too. So that’s something that is very important when people are dealing with Lyme, you’re not gonna fully get rid of the Lyme unless you get rid of the bug that it’s living into, as well as be able to balance that immune system. And then the next thing we really want to think about. So you touched on sleep. The brain drains when you’re sleeping. And we have this glymphatic system in our brain. It’s basically the lymphatic system in our brain. And a lot of infections are fought in the lymphatic system. Well, the glymphatic system, it drains while we’re sleeping. How many people do you know are getting enough sleep? You know, this is a big problem in America, especially we have just been conditioned to just be, go, go, go all the time. 

And let’s just fill up our agenda from night to day with non-stop activities. And we have to hustle and bustle to survive. And so, we are living in a very sympathetic, dominant society, and we don’t value us asleep as much as we need to. So I think, when people get sick, a lot of this is really a mind game in itself. ‘Cause it’s like we’ve been living a certain way and conditioned to do certain things to survive and thrive, and keep up with the Joneses. And so when you say, it’s time to sleep, it can sometimes for some people be like, first of all, they don’t even know how to sleep because their body can’t calm down. So we’ll talk about that. But also, it’s like, okay, now you have to plan your sleep. 

Like I literally have alarms that tell me, okay, Jacqueline, stop working. It’s time to wind down. So, in terms of sleep though, insomnia is a huge, huge, huge problem. And I’ve noticed, a couple of things that are associated with that. Obviously, the Lyme and their co-infections can cause issues. Parasites will wake you up between one to three in the morning. It’s like, that’s when they want to have a party and replicate. If you have itchy butt, that’s a sign that there’s parasites too. And so, the infections obviously can cause issues, but also deficiencies. So the infections can cause the deficiencies, ’cause they’re eating your food. And, you know, even if you are eating enough of it. So sometimes people can really find that they can actually sleep better in the beginning of the protocol, especially when they’re using nutritional supplements to address different deficiencies like magnesium, calcium. I’m not a big fan of just giving calcium without doing a hair test, because it’s not really the best thing for anyone to take. 

But if you’re a fast metabolizer, and then you have that deficiency, then it is something good to take and that could help with people’s sleep. And as well as tryptophan. So tryptophan helps to build serotonin and that helps to build melatonin. And melatonin is secreted by our pineal gland. And if our pineal gland is not secreting the melatonin, we’re not gonna sleep very well. And melatonin is very detoxifying for the brain as well. So that’s, you know, some nuggets about sleep. You also have to have your brain- I mean, your neck draining as well. ‘Cause you know, you have this head. And before these toxins come out through your bowels and your urine, you have a neck that it has to go down through. So people have infections in their neck that sometimes will compromise their brain drain as well. 

So one of those things is we got to flip off that sympathetic dominant mode, and get into a more parasympathetic state where the body is, that’s where the body heals best. And that’s where we should literally be about 80% of the time. It sounds really off the hook when you’re thinking about American lifestyle. But, you know, being able to figure out how do we live in society and be able to still have that common piece like you’re very good at, Robby. I feel like no matter what I talk to you, it’s like, you’re so calm. So that’s what we have to have with, if we’re gonna be healthy and heal.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Well, to simply put what you talked about. ‘Cause some people don’t understand what’s the autonomic nervous system, sympathetic versus being sympathetic dominant or parasympathetic. Sympathetic state is really a brainwave function. And it’s that fight or flight, it’s being anxious. Sort of at the edge of your seat, always be edgy, irritable, things like that. That’s the way you would express it. And the parasympathetic, the opposite is more of the calm state. And so what you’re telling us, and I’m sure everybody out there can relate to this, that where we should be 80% calm and 20% excited. 

We’re actually other way. Where like, and now with the restraints with COVID and the changes in our lifestyle and everything- That lifestyles that basically happened overnight, no one sent us out the memo. You know, this is gonna happen. We weren’t really prepared. And so, there are things you can do to shift it back the other way. But the first thing that I guess, from this discussion is to identify that, it’s not healthy to be always at that anxious state. And sometimes when they say sympathetic dominant, it means we kind of get stuck there. And the brain kind of says, oh, okay, this is the new normal. You want me excited all the time? Wow. But that upsets all the harmony and the other parts of our systems that really operate better when you’re in a calm state. So that is not normal. And we actually have to work a little bit. 

First part is knowing that we have a little challenge there. So thank you very much for bringing that up today and illuminating that to our audience. But you know, it may sound very complicated or complex, but the simple things to do to shift that way of the way your brain could be something in the way you breathe or doing things like yoga, for instance. Where you’re in the breath, but you’re also doing a little bit of bodywork. Guided meditation is a wonderful way to bring yourself into that calm state. And so I practice that every day, I do it when I’m in my sauna in the morning. 

It’s my time. The world has, generally, it’s four or five in the morning. And the world isn’t up yet, so I’m not inundated with daily challenges. But it does give me an opportunity to ask for forgiveness and focus on what I’m grateful for, and set my intentions for the day. In other ways are, I know you’re so spiritually grounded. It just go back to your faith. You know, read the New or Old Testament. You know, find or follow someone out there like Joe Dispenza’s, “The One I Really Love.” That just offers so much insight in how to create a really great internal environment emotionally. And again, that spills over to the physical side. So, that’s the piece on calming us down. And I think that’s super important. And thank you so much for bringing it to our attention. Yes, we’ve got these bugs and they get excited around full moons. So you see, that you’re extra anxious around full moons. And many women, their menstrual cycles are tied to the full moon. So now you’ve got menstrual things going on. Plus, you’ve got parasite stuff going on. Oh my God.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

You know, that’s a very common thing with not only the Lyme’s spirochetes, but Babesia and Bartonella. They all can cause anxiety and even panic attacks. And it’s interesting


Robby Besner PSc.D.



Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

that you can see some of the things that are associated with that is seeing lesions, like brain scans can see lesions in the brain, but as well as on the amygdala. And then the other side of the amygdala is that, it can become enlarged. The more that we’re practicing fear or absorbing it, we can get stuck into an amygdala hijack, it’s what they call that. And so, when you’re stuck in that fight or flight response, how do you think that your body is going to be responding in terms of its health? It’s not ready to rest. It’s not ready to heal. It’s not trying to digest your food. It’s not trying to reproduce. I mean, there’s a lot of fertility challenges that are going on as well. And these bugs are very intertwined with that too. So, you know, dealing with that amygdala is gonna be huge and turning off that fight or flight response, so that people aren’t feeling so anxious as well.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Right. We use heart rate variability very often to just try to be able to discern where those changes are. There’s a great group out there. It’s free on the Internet called Heart Math. And you can kind of look at some of their teachings. And also, we like the breathing techniques of Wim Hof. And there’s a Russian guy that has a great breathing technique. It takes four minutes, that’s it. You’re feeling anxious, you just spend four minutes and just calm yourself down through breathing. Rock your world. Amazing.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.



Robby Besner PSc.D.

Earlier you talked about frequencies and bio-frequencies that they use for testing and also in a way our method for, in therapy. Could you just expand upon that? Because you know, we’re all energy beings. And so, you know, we’re talking about brain energy, now and brain frequencies. And now you’ve got devices and techniques through your clinic and through your own studies that can lock on where the challenges are. I mean, it’s amazing for me to think that you can use a vial and muscle test, and understand not just that you have Lyme or co-infections, but which ones you have, what strains you have. So just unpack that a little bit for the people out there that don’t quite understand what that means.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

So frequencies are something that has to be thought about when people are trying to kill of anything really. I’ll tell you a quick story. I had a lot of parasites myself. And once I started really going at them, I was really surprised to see a lot of them come out. And within a month, they kept coming and coming. And it was just like, seriously, is this ever going to end? So six months later, I’m still seeing these things come out. And I’m like, this is just ridiculous. Like when is this going to end? And, you know, the quality of our questions leads to the quality of our answers. And it’s one thing that I’ve learned. And in that moment, when I was like, God, seriously, I need to know, I need to know this answer. 

You know, like, am I going to have to be taking parasite herbs for the rest of my life? And obviously, I’m dealing with a toxic burden as well. So there’s that. And maybe, I do have that many bugs, I don’t know. But the fact that I could keep seeing them come out was just ridiculous in my book. And so the answer that I got at that moment was, you have to get rid of the frequency that is causing them to proliferate. And, you know, part of that, there’s several pieces of the puzzle probably, but a big part of that is dealing with the emotions that are associated, that have attracted these bugs in the first place. 

We were talking about energy vampires. And, you know, these can come through people, obviously. But we can have all these different emotions that happen throughout our life. And I studied the emotion code and you can actually identify through muscle testing when specific types of emotions happened in your life. You know, whether it was from an energy vampire or maybe you experienced that type of other trauma in your life, or it can be different depending on what the situation is, or what emotion is you’re dealing with. But through a series of muscle testing, we can identify, is basically like we’re talking to the subconscious mind. Our subconscious mind stores everything. You know, we have different parts of our brain that are conscious and we can remember, but a lot of times when people go through traumas, they’re not very conscious about their past. 

Like my dad died at when I was, let’s say, nine years old. I actually don’t even really remember much of my childhood before that. And it’s really interesting. But what can happen is that our subconscious mind does remember these, like everything that happens in our life. It’s like a movie script that is imprinted in our mind. And so, the muscle testing allows us to identify, let’s say, we had anger. You know, I’ve been dealing with a lot of anger challenges with my clients. And you know, anger can really affect our heart. And you know, it could affect other pieces of our body, ’cause everything is connected as well. 

But what we can do is, okay, we find anger this issue. We could see when, what age that it happened. Then there’s a certain amount of information that we’ll need to find. ‘Cause what’s happening is the emotions kind of coming to the surface in our frequencies. And then we can release them with rubbing magnets down our governing meridian, which starts between our eyes right here, and then goes along our head all the way down to our tailbone. So any part of that can be rubbed with magnets to be able to help release that frequency. And you know, the whole quantum field. I don’t know if you got a chance to interview Veronica Leslie yet, but she takes the coal quantum thing to another level. You know, I can’t explain exactly how this is working completely, but I can do this remotely. And I have had clients where in that moment, they feel the energy shift. 

They could feel the pain that was in their chest and their back go away. And you know, with Lyme, that’s a common thing that we see, is pain. And so, to be able to identify any type of emotion that is related to that pain, it can be very critical. You know, basically, like I like to say, God heals how he wants to heal. And so, if that’s the solution, then we need to address the frequency level as well. And you know, when I’m doing that, it really is like one long prayer. You know, I’m asking for guidance. You know, and I just feel like throughout the whole time, I’m just being guided to the answers of what the person needs to release. And so, I’ve seen people like they could feel the shift while I’m doing it as well. And besides like getting rid of pains, it’s almost like they could feel the magnet running down them too, even though I’m doing this remotely. 

So anyways, we can be carrying burdens that are not ours to carry, and that disrupts our immune system, and it disrupts or frequencies. And it can invite an energy vampire, literally, people in our life too. And it can invite illness as well. It can disrupt our financial situation. I notice, a lot of times when people have illness challenges, there’s a lot of times a financial challenge too. And so one, I noticed a big thing when I’m working with people on a frequency level, it affects everything around them, not even just their health, so.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Right. And also the people around them too, right?


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

Oh, yeah.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

So it goes on that.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

Some people will start to leave that don’t belong.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Yeah. You know, pain is an interesting issue because we have body pain, many of the Lymies out there listening, they all feel that. They feel neurological shifts. They’ll get tingling, they’ll get pins and needles. It’ll feel like they’re people are poking them with needles or pieces of glass. I’ve heard many different ways it’s described. And then there’s this emotional piece. You know, it could be emotional trauma that happened sometime in your life. So you just articulated one in years. It’s natural. You know, if we were living in a very high state of pain, like what’s called breakthrough pain. Where if it was a stereo of the volume and it goes up to 10 on a stereo, the volume would be nine, eight or nine. 

So loud that you can’t focus on your work, your family, your bliss, your purpose, your luck, things you love in your life because the pain is so strong, that it’s overbearing. So what the brain does, is kind of sweeps it under the carpet because it can’t function in that high threshold of volume of pain 24/7. And that’s what you talked about. Like you actually had an emotional pain block where you can’t really remember earlier than nine, ’cause you had this trauma. So that trauma was so impactful for you that you, it muted all of the history before it, trying to create the new normal so that you could survive. It’s a defense mechanism.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.



Robby Besner PSc.D.

And we all have it in some degree. But the lime is out there, may have it even more because they’re dealing with this imbalance inside, plus all the other external influences and stresses. And then whatever their genetic proclivities are, that you know, it’s really interesting conversation. But it does come back to brain health, detoxing your body, and creating sort of a better level playing field. I really love that. I love the fact that you can decide or discern these things with frequency techniques. And that ultimately, we all are frequency. You know, made of frequencies in one way or another. And then just using magnets and focusing on the Vegas nerve, and the governing channel is so important for settling down. 

So I do that very often in my own therapy, just 12 strokes like this. I don’t even use magnetic fields, but that’s also really strong. At sometimes, I’m using essential oils or I’m using paramagnetic materials that we farm from the earth that radiate frequencies. And I just put them in, I’ve got a little vial, and I put it in my vial, and I just run the vile down my governing. And it calms me down and just brings me back to myself, to my center. So it does take a little bit of work, but I’ll tell you something else about emotional healing that I’ve gone through my own journey, personally and in different ways of working and coaching with people. 

The fastest shift in your physiology is emotional. Like you can just do a pono, pono, the Hawaiian asked for forgiveness. You can go through a few of those simple rituals and do some simple affirmations that are specific to your needs. Of course, having a coach like you, and someone that studied emotional code that understands techniques. You know, tapping. These are all ways to actually settle down that emotional block. And once that block is released, it’s incredible. 

Like Louis Hayes, her whole work has been built around emotional traumas and expressions and emotions that translate into physical expressions. So when we find, we ask that forgiveness. Boom, that block is cleared. And then now, it’s amazing how your physical shift will occur also. So I’m really happy that you went there and I’m also happy to tell everybody out there that you can do this virtually. You know, can people call you and you can work with them virtually to help coach them through these things, so you set up to do that?


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

Yeah. Every single thing I do is virtual. So I used to have an office.


Robby Besner PSc.D.



Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

And I, before COVID even happened, that whole thing last year, I actually was led to close the, just not have the office space anymore and do everything online. And, you know, I think part of it, it’s my female instincts are kicking in. I want to be near my family and possibly have some children in the future. So I feel like that’s setting the stage for not being all over the place. But yeah, I really enjoy working online to be able to tap into doing work with everyone around the world, so.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Super, it’s great to know. Because a lot of people out there, you know, first of all, sometimes they can’t physically get to you. And to have the idea that they can tap into your research or knowledge and heal, go through your eight step program for brain detoxing, do this frequency balancing, is super cool. Wow. You know, we’ve actually run over our time, but I’m so drawn into the information that you’re imparting today. Before we finish, is there something else that we might’ve left out that you’d love to cover before we have to go today?


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

Well, when we’re dealing with issues with the brain, obviously, you have to get rid of the things that don’t belong. So, you know, there’s amazing tools like CellCore, like your light therapy is incredible. You know, infrared light therapy. The other side of it is, you have to be able to rebuild the tissue as well. And so, there’s something called neurogenesis, where you can actually rebuild and grow new neurons. And then the other side of that is neuroplasticity. So you can actually rewire your brain. So that’s a very important piece of the puzzle too, is being able to rebuild the brain tissue, but also rewire your brain for success. 

I think a lot of times people get stuck in a program because their brain is just constantly in that negative. Like, oh, I can’t do this. I can’t heal, et cetera. But once they start rewiring their brain toward success, then their body can actually heal as well. And so, that’s something that I wanted to leave the audience on is. Don’t just think about getting rid of the bad thing. But also, what are the things that you need to do to include in your life? And also, how do you rebuild your brain? So that, you know, we don’t invite these bugs in our life anymore. You know, my goal with clients is to not only get rid of the bad thing, but let’s create a future for this to not have to happen again.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Wow. How powerful is that? And rewiring is interesting because it sounds like it’s electrical. Let’s connect these dots from here to here. And it’s somewhat in many ways, it is. But we’re talking about negative thinking. Like in the quiet time of the day, we all have these thoughts and words, things you articulate out loud are very powerful. But so are the words that are not set out loud that are just the negative thoughts or the toxic or negative people that are around us that are giving us, feeding us with negative words or negative thoughts. And so, there’s a little skill set involved with understanding how to do that. 

And that’s why I love working with you and talking to you because you’re an expert and a coach at that. So you can identify the kinds of language that we use them in daily basis. You say, well, you could say it that way, but the healthy way to say the same thing is by saying it this way, which is more an affirmative statement and a positive growth statement that’s reinforcing your health as opposed to ones that might be negative, kind of keeping you down. And, you know, it’s easy when you’re not feeling well to think negative. 

That’s so easy to do and people feel bad for you that you feel that way. You know, they sort of feed into the sympathy side of it. But the strong ones, the fighters, the weekend warriors, the people that really have the will to live. Okay. They find a way out. And you’re giving us the tools to do that. And that’s so important to understand that we’re not alone, that there are ways out of this, and that it’s one step at a time, and we can do this. And it’s amazing that you’ve developed a whole understanding of it. And you’re willing to share that with us today. So Dr. Jacqueline, you’re amazing. Thank you for joining us. The healthy hotline does it again, Jacqueline Gutierrez, what a great all-star you are. We appreciate you so much. Thanks for the good work and the wisdom that you shared with us today.


Jacqueline Gutierrez, D.N.M., H.E.D. C.P.T.

Thank you so much for having me. 


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Everybody, it’s Robby Besner. Thanks so much for joining us today. Please share this content with anyone that you think might benefit from it. And we’re looking forward to having you with us tomorrow for another great interview.


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