Peptides, Neuropathy, and Chronic Pain

Matt Cook, M.D.

I’m delighted to be here, bud.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. And just a little bit about Matt. He is a board certified anesthesiologist who completed a fellowship in functional medicine. You don’t see that a lot. Um, his practice bio reset medical provides treatments for conditions ranging from pain and complex illness to anti aging and wellness at bio recent medical. He treats, um, some of the most challenging diagnosis, difficult to live with elements that people suffer from today. I know that’s true because we talk all the time, Lyme disease, chronic pain, and he’s just amazing with chronic pain. Uh, he’s doing things that isn’t in the literature, um, post traumatic stress disorder, auto immune mycotoxin illness, throw it at him. 

He has a way that no one else does. Uh, he is, uh, approached to use the most noninvasive natural and integrative ways going advanced peptide therapies. And, uh, he’ll also do invasive stuff, but he does it. Uh, it is a very differently, we were just talking where like for joint injections, you don’t need to go in the joint. He treats the nerves, um, and injects all around the nervous of unique things, uh, twists on, you know, that so-called cutting edge doctors are doing, he’s improved those, those therapies. So welcome. I’m very excited that we have you and thank you for being on the summit.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Oh, thanks. I’m delighted. I’m just thinking about a, must’ve been 10 years ago when we first met and we were sitting next together and then I led to meeting. So

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, we’re up in, uh, bam. And it was like Siberia. I couldn’t, I don’t see how people live there.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Crazy. Like driving through calorie. I got out, uh, uh, to get gas and I’m like, I can bring you how the people live here. Someone walks by and Bermuda shorts, but, uh, it was good. And yeah, I see. And, uh, all the conferences and, uh, just have great conversations about, you know, cutting edge therapies and, uh, uh, it’s such a pleasure. So, um, God, we have so many things to talk about. I love to, I’d love to hear from ya. Um, but just talk about pain, your approach to pain. I guess there’s so many different things, but, uh, aspects of it, but let’s say someone comes in with neuropathy. W what’s your approach.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Okay. So that’s a great question. Neuropathy, I think is one of the scorches of, uh, of our era. I’m going to shut this door here.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And I, I had neuropathy with Lyme and yeah. Out of almost every illness you had that with anxiety and it’s just a miserable time, uh, and just taking 50 showers and I Baz getting up and down, you can’t lay down and you can’t stand up. Um, it’s one of those things like, I, I can’t live this way, you know?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. And so is it, it was interesting because neuropathy was one of the first things that I tried to tackle and I’ve been tackling it consistently for the last 10 years. Um, the, as an anesthesiologist, I, I, what my practice wasn’t anesthesia was I would use an ultrasound and basically put a needle real close to a nerve and then create a halo around that nerve of fluid that was numbing medicine to put that nerve to sleep. And so I always thought, I wonder if there’s something that I could do to help.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

No, most people don’t use ultrasounds, they just kind of shotgun, right.

Matt Cook, M.D.

It takes a super long time to learn how to do ultrasound it’s. I happened to have been doing it since like 2000

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And he can come very fast,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Three. So for me, it takes less time to use ultrasound cause I’m just kind of used to doing it all the time. And so I, you know, I was really oriented towards treating nerves and fixing nerves. And so the first, the first thing that I did, which is pretty interesting is I went into a field of functional neurology, which was, which is a field that was really, uh, pioneered and developed by chiropractors who were basically using things like light photobiomodulation electricity, uh, creating really anti-inflammatory diets to try to decrease inflammation because around that nerve and the nerve is always running with an artery and vein. And if there’s a lot of inflammation in the nerve and the artery in the vein, the idea was if you could do something to lower that inflammation, you could get people better. And generally what we found is if we really dialed people in and got them to quit eating sugar and optimize their diet and did all of these things a lot, and you start to do light and you start to do vibration techniques. 

And so we were doing all this and it seemed like he could make nerves about peripheral neuropathy, about 20% better doing that stuff, which was for me frustrating. Cause it was helpful, but it’s not that helpful, but that was kind of my first entry into it. And I felt like you don’t sleep and then so hungry, so hungry, you know, it’s like you crave center. And exactly. So as soon as, as soon as, as soon as that comes on, there’s inflammation. So yeah, you’re not sleeping, you’re stressed, you’re in pain. And then the other thing that happens with peripheral neuropathy is crazy is people get muscle spasms and cramps. And so then they wake up in the middle of the night and it’s just like a 10 out of 10 ice pick in the back of their calf. Yep. Yep. 

And so then I started doing things like putting exosomes and placental matrix years ago around peripheral nerves. There was an, what I think is that there’s four or five different versions of peripheral neuropathy and we’re going to start to go through and identify them. And I’ll walk you through this a little bit. What I found is that a little of, I got some green tea. Yeah. And this is not in textbooks folks. This is like, right. So then what the, the regenerative medicine techniques had the peripheral nerves helped, but they didn’t help everybody. Okay. And so then the next thing that happened, the peptides came onto the scene. And so I, and I really cause I’ve talked to you and I’ve talked to other people I’ve met so many patients who came to me with Lyme disease where their manifestation of Lyme disease was nerve pain. 

And so a lot of people with horrible peripheral neuropathy from lime and a light bulb went off into my head where I said, I wonder if those nerves are kind of inflamed because of an immune mechanism. And we know that some of the peptides that we have have an effect of modulating immune function. And so the best one for that is thymus. Um, but I like when I, I inject diamonds and beta for a lot of times, I’ll put some BPC, one, five, seven with it and together I find they’re synergistically. Yeah. They’re very synergistic. Yeah. Yeah. So then what I started doing was I started doing nerve hydrodissection and so then can, uh, can you explain hydrodissection Oh yeah. So what, what hydrodissection is, is I, and I like this, I’d say I spent the first half of my life facilitating surgery and putting nerves to sleep and putting people to sleep. And I’m spending the rest of my life, waking people up and waking up nerves. And so interestingly, what I do is I look with an ultrasound and I take in me at all and I read that needle through the muscles. It doesn’t hurt at all. And I put that nerve in the fascia right next to the ER and my need on the fascia rig next to the nerve. And then I inject that. I create a halo around that nerve with the peptides and the, for peripheral neuropathy by far, the best ones is the thymus and beta four and the BPC one five, seven, so that I create that halo. And then I treat wherever they have pain. And so sometimes I’ll treat them in their ankle. 

Sometimes I’ll treat them for the, if they have neuropathy in their foot, I’ll treat the tibial nerve and I’ll treat the Searle nerve. So I treat the nerves on the inside and the outside, and then often I’ll treat the staff in this nerve, which is another nerve that goes to the foot. And often in addition to that, I’ll treat the sciatic nerve up above the knee. So I’m treating and then often I’ll do an epidural girl. I’ll do a caudal epidural. So I’m treating the nerve and a whole bunch of spots along the way. And then interestingly Rican inject quite a bit of fluid. So when I treat the tibial nerve, I will generally create a halo of fluid that will track almost all the way back up to the knee. And then when I go up and I treat the sciatic nerve I’m up, but kind of somewhere above the knee and often the fluid that I put around up there will track down and up. And so I might cover 30 or 40% of the entire length of the nerve with peptides. 

So are you basically diluting it? So as a much higher volume? Yes. Yeah, I I’ve, I’ve done, I’m constantly sort of testing this. I’ve done techniques where I’ll put relatively high concentration in a low amount of volume and I’ve done it high, high volume and lower concentration at the same dose at the same dose and I both work. And so then this is having conversation for me, love it. I love it, hearing it out. But so then the, the idea now of how, I guess my approach to peripheral neuropathy is then to try to put all of that together. And so to take that a page out of your book and say, okay, let’s do a real functional medicine approach and try to figure out everything and optimize their biology from that perspective. And then I do the peptide hydrodissection, but then the thing that I find, there’s a couple of things that I think are important, the same peptides that we’re treating their nerve with. I put them on those peptides and I let them go home and I let them do injections every day. And for people that have enough subcutaneous tissue, I’ll actually get them doing on their lives

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

At home. So then

Matt Cook, M.D.

Continuing the treatment and they’re doing that every day. And then what I’m doing is I’m supporting that treatment with other peptides. So I found that the, um, everybody that has peripheral neuropathy just about will respond very well to the mitochondrial peptides. Uh, they tend to respond fairly well to NAD. So I’ll do all trading’s approaches where I’ll do some, any D and then I’ll stop the NAD and then I’ll do some mitochondrial cuff tides. So we have alternate

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You play. So you’re doing the NAD IVs. I think you said you’re doing

Matt Cook, M.D.

At NAD, IB, we’re doing an D subcutaneous.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And what, what, what type of dosing do you do on that?

Matt Cook, M.D.

You know, that there’s some different ideas that I’ve had. One thing that I found with any D in terms of dosing that people kind of like is I started doing any D in an insulin syringe. And so 50 units on an insular on an insulin syringe is one half of a CC. And so then if you do 50 units is super easy to draw it up and inject it. And that is 100 milligrams. And I find that’s a great dose. It’s not too much. Um, what I’ll tell you is with any di it can turn on your immune system in terms of healing. And so you gotta be real careful. And so if somebody came in and they had Lyme disease or any complex illness, all often get them doing any D but I’ll start with like five or 10 units, some baby baby, baby dose, as I might only be coming 25 milligrams, and then I’ll slowly ramp them up. And when I do that, they tend to tolerate that very well.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And do you think people tolerate the dose of the sub Q much better than the IvX probably the IB. It is pink so long, right? So

Matt Cook, M.D.

That’d be takes quite a, quite a while. Now. There’s a couple of things that I’ve discovered. Number one, uh, when you do the IV,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Uh, the creative,

Matt Cook, M.D.

It’s a lot of methylated metabolites. So for example, like they did these studies where they gave people niacin, which is like a, an, a, these kind of like a, almost like a derivative of niacin. And, uh, when they take nice and you get all these methylated, niacin metabolites in your urine. And so then I started thinking of, I wonder what would happen if you gave somebody a lot of methyl donors before NAD? And it turns out if you give people a bunch of trimethylglycine the stress of doing any di afterwards is about a quarter. So it’s way easier to take the IB. If I have people doing NAD at home, I give them a TMG and I have them do two, three scoops and drink it, and then they have less side effects. Uh, if you do, Oh, Pearl right there. Oh yeah. That’s the home run Pearl that’s, that’s a total homeroom Pearl ozone. If you do, uh, like a maitre hemotherapy or really any IB ozone technique afterwards, NAD is much easier to take.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So do they, uh, NAD than the ozone

Matt Cook, M.D.

Ozone, then the NAD, because the ozone makes the ozone, I think the ozone somehow has a balancing effect on the basketballer or, and also does also quite analgesic. So I’m not sure exactly what the is

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Tells you that you’re going to get that rebound any oxycodone, probably methylating thing, maybe, you know, in there

Matt Cook, M.D.

The other ozone also naturally increases your NAD. So there’s a, there’s a number of mechanisms, but regardless what I’ll do is if they’re in the office, I’ll give them any D and sometimes over there, we’re going low dose, sometimes medium, sometimes high. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

What, what, what doses are you doing when you say low being in mind?

Matt Cook, M.D.

W when I’m doing low, for me, a low dose is a hundred milligrams. And so the nice thing about that as is if I have somebody and we’re working on immune modulation and we’re doing so they might come in and do vitamin C B complex, quercitin co Q 10. Um, and then I might give them a baby dose of any D some glutathione and some peptides. And so that might be kind of a, I like that I do 20 times a week,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

But, but try it, uh, uh, five setting instead of course, attendance like much more.

Matt Cook, M.D.

How are you, how do you deliver it?

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Uh, existed by oral. Okay. Yeah. It’s I was looking at a head to head study and yeah, it’s like, you know, mastermind mass cell guys, and Chromelin, it’s so weak and this like, fast, it blows it away in terms of potency.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Oh, okay, awesome. I’m going to try that next week to just pay it off. Being here. I knew it was going to be worth it.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I got something, I got 50 things.

Matt Cook, M.D.

I would, I would love to come and hang out with you and see what you do, because you’ve been such a luminaire and especially everything you’ve done on the thyroid is so awesome.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, well, I appreciate that coming from you, especially, but, um, let’s see, sort of NAD. So you, are you doing that?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Um, and so, so then, but to kind of circle back on the peripheral neuropathy, it’s really interesting because I think there are more conditions and more problems that have a component of inflammation, this immune inflammation. Now, almost of those people also have vascular implementation. Okay. Now, and then they’re just generally inflamed in their tissues. Now what happens is one thing we’re doing when we do hydrodissection is we’re treating the nerve. Another thing we’re doing is we’re treating that fascia, which is like a signaling kind of almost tissue.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Which is amazing to me. And I originally from, uh, Kathleen, O’Neill just, she had electronic fashion. I’m like, I’m boring. Is this going to be? And I’m like, damn, I didn’t know what had, you know, it actually didn’t do anything, but sit there and be a connective tissue.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Oh yeah. So then imagine, you know, how have you ever like, opened up, like if you were cleaning a chicken and when you kind of open it up, you see almost like that spider web of so fascia is like this intricate, unbelievable three-dimensional spider web that connects and holds everything together and the ligaments are running through it and nerves are running through it and arteries around with it.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

But I think that, you know, a picture of flat, you know, just the, you know,

Matt Cook, M.D.

It is immaculate, three-dimensional kind of a structure. And so then what happens is, is when you inject in the fast,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Can you, can you define fascia? What it is

Matt Cook, M.D.

Fascia is that when you kind of peel that chicken apart and you see that spider web, that spider web, the connection between the muscles where the nerves in the arteries and the Bain slip is the fascia. And so then sometimes you’ll see a gigantic nerve, but there are millions of tiny nerves that live within the fascia that are carrying electricity to every muscle. And so then when we stick our needle, then, and we can see would that work in the fascia. And then we start to inject whatever we’re injecting could be peptides, or it could be something else that starts to expand that Basha, and that will spread up and down and that fascia, but then we’re putting in that plane and that’s healing.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

How would someone get into the fascia? They don’t have ultrasound. How would they know?

Matt Cook, M.D.

So then what, there is there in German, biologic medicine, people have been doing approaches to treating the fascia forever. And then what they’re doing is they’re using the feel of the needle to feel when it pops into the fascia. And interestingly, you’re going to be happy to know that I’m so old.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I don’t look it

Matt Cook, M.D.

I’m. So I’m so old that are all over.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Um, um, basically Yoda

Matt Cook, M.D.

Is there your Yoda, and if you’re young, but then I’ll be over one. But then the interesting thing is that when I did my anesthesia, we didn’t have ultrasound because the only ultrasound we had was to look at the heart, we would do echocardiogram. [inaudible] basically put an ultrasound in the esophagus to look at the heart and actually went, we did one, I think we did probably the first ultrasound guided brachial, plexus injection, like in making in 1999, that one of the first ones in history. And I would, I kind of, it hit me at that moment. I was like, Oh, this is going to be the future. But we were using a cardiac ultrasound. That was the size of an operating room.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. We feel that thing. Yeah.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Now the ultrasound that I have is about a thousand times better than that. And it’s the size of this computer right here that I’ve got. So then what happens is, is we used to just do everything by feel, and then we would use a nerve stimulator. And when we got real close to the nerve, then we would unload our medication around it.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Okay. Now, when you go in and as soon as it really hurts you, when you hit the, uh, the muscle the faster, uh, can you tell by that, by the pain

Matt Cook, M.D.

You can, but then, you know, the, the thing that has been the highlight. So this is kind of this thing that I, I developed my most recent kind of idea is I developed this idea called the bio reset shot. And so then what I do is I take these insulin syringes and we just do subcutaneous injections in all the same places where I normally do my big complex injections in the office, but I teach patients how to do it. And I was, what, what happened is I was doing all these telemedicine con calls with COVID to people all over the world. And they were like, well,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

This is changing the way people are doing everything right.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Changing the way, everything, because what happened is it used to be, people would call me and they’d be like, Hey, I can’t wait to see you. I’m going to fly there. I’ll be there in two months. It’ll be awesome. And then I started doing all these calls. People would be like, my country’s closed. And so I’m going to see you in 2021. I hope maybe it might, I might not even be able to come to the,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. I can imagine the ivory tower always having the patients inject themselves, like, you know,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Well, you would think so, but so then what happened is I started having people, somebody I’ve shoulder pain, and I would teach them all of these points where they can inject just in the subcutaneous tissue. And it turns out the nerve that goes to your joint also will have a little branch that goes to the skin. And so if you heal the part that goes to the skin, a lot of times the joint will feel better. But also if I put peptides right next to the joint, you’ll have an area of about four or five inches where you’ll have a real local effect from those pep times. So what I’ve, I’m going to start then the next week or two, we’re going to do a call every week. And we’re just going to tackle a different part of the body where I say, okay, we’re gonna do the shoulder this week. We’re gonna do the knee this week. And I have to tell you it’s been amazing because people call me now and they say, Hey, you know what? I don’t have any pain anymore, but I do look forward to talking to you some time. That was super cool. And then, yeah, exactly. And so I’m putting myself out of business, but creating,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You know, it’s and I’ve learned these used to be like, Oh, don’t tell people things. Or, or like doctors, or what are you going to do? They’re not going to come in, you know, but you do it’s right. And it works out 10 times more for it.

Matt Cook, M.D.

No. Yeah. And, and I’m super excited. And it’s interesting because one of what happens is remember that big immune problems cause nerve pain. So you’ve got Lyme, we think of Lyme as a big immune problem. And so there’s a lot of patients that will have pain, particularly peripheral pain with Lyme. And I think a lot of the migrating pain that people used to have that we thought of was myalgias as more, as more nerve pain with line. But what is super interesting to me is I’ve been seeing a lot of people who were postcode, but with nerve pain and then all ha I’ve taught them how to start to inject the peptides. And we’ve, we’ve been having a lot of success treating those patients, which has been super, probably one of the highlights of my life.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Does he need to have like heart inflammation?

Matt Cook, M.D.

There is a ton of hard implementation and this I’ve got some great cases. Like I have a person here today. It was great who, um, had cope. And this is a typical case COVID three months ago. And then basically came to see me, uh, after having chest pain for three months in a row. So then, uh, three months are up,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Was this person just when her 40?

Matt Cook, M.D.

So, so, and, and so then this is the 10th or 15th person that I’ve spoken to that had COVID a month or two of basically daily chest pain, multiple trips to the emergency room. And they ruled out for EMI. And so then this is, Oh my God, this is crazy that every one of those is every one of those admissions is, you know, $20,000. And, and, and so it’s interesting because they’re, they’re coming with chest pain. Hey bud, I’ve got a call. I’m on a podcast. I got to call you back. Thanks Ken. I’m here. Oh, I’m so sorry. For some reason.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Hey, it’s live TV.

Matt Cook, M.D.

It’s just like life. Um, uh, okay. So then, so what happens is when you say this is super interesting for patients to understand, when you say that someone rules out for EMI, it means they didn’t have a heart attack and their EKG is not showing any changes consistent with the fact that they’re not getting enough blood to them.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. It’s their little round one thing,

Matt Cook, M.D.

But they still have this chest pain. And so then I’ll tell you the things that I’ve done, these people I’ve given them thymus and alpha one and in relatively high dose and the thymus and alpha one seems to help. And I think that that is regulating some of the immune mediated inflammation of the heart. So that’s one thing that I’ll do. I’ve given them thymus and beta four and BPC went by seven. I’ve done all of these, both of subcutaneous injections, and I’ve done them all as IB injections. And when I do it, I V all often break the pain right there. Um, I will

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Like, we’ve done the high dose tea before and people on my pain’s gone and now I think [inaudible] is even better at that. Tell me about that. Yeah. It tends to be a more, um, immuno don’t want to say suppressing, but it’s much more anti-inflammatory. Um, then the other ones are more immune modulation where, where I kind of think this is very simplistic. You know, if I was an alpha one, raises T H a T reg, Timmy for kind of the middle, then BPC lowers that to Suki and 17 and then by mule ends and that raised H one lower T eight 17, uh, it seems to lower the, the inflammatory I L six, which is a major, um, uh, cytokine, uh, it seemed to work better. And we’re finding, uh, also, um, at battalion were easy lot more, which is which kind of resetting the thymus and then, um, [inaudible] or, um, people pronounce it very differently, but, uh, we’ll have that out as a, uh, as a supplement as well. Uh, we’re excited about that kind of resetting whole

Matt Cook, M.D.

Adrenal access from the pituitary album.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And we’re finding that hypo. Um, the hypothalamic inflammation is key to so many things.

Matt Cook, M.D.

I agree. I totally agree. And that

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Installation, installation, um, uh, insulin resistance, um, it can reset the, uh, the, basically the, uh, pineal, uh, hypothalamic, pituitary, thyroid access of renal access. Um, it’s, it’s kind of amazing. We’ve been messing around before for quite awhile.

Matt Cook, M.D.

I’m a hundred percent with you. And so then I agree with that. And then essentially that access is derailed and, and almost all disease. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Aye, hallelujah. I can’t mail gets it.

Matt Cook, M.D.

And it’s interesting because your, your, your work is interesting because you’ve been so focused on this thyroid. And interestingly, when you heal that a lot of times that has this retro grid effect of kind of healing that whole cascade of yeah.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It’s the same. And it’s kind of like, what’s a meme modulation, same mechanism for, you know, you look at, if you do a big panel, the, uh, you know, live patients with like the autistic patients look like, you know, chronic fatigue and people say, Oh, there’s no studies that there’s no tests we can do for chronic fatigue syndrome. Uh, well, we can do it and probably gauge through as part of the need syndrome or, you know, that’s just, the syndrome could be aligned to whatever, um, uh, who has it, who doesn’t and how severe it is about 70%, you know?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. I would agree with that. And these are multifactorial

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Ariel. Yes.

Matt Cook, M.D.

And so then, and then just like with peripherally up to the web, we’re going to have is there’s going to be four or five variants because there’s going to be different variance of immune mechanisms. Sometimes we see a lot of people that have a traumatic brain injury that will begin to disrupt that. And, uh, and I’ve actually seen a lot of cases where somebody basically had like Lyme disease and they got a traumatic brain injury. And then all of a sudden it was like, that’s what seeded the brain. And then all of a sudden they start to get this autoimmune and adrenal axis dysfunction you’ve seen that

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Looks like, uh, and I think too emotional stress is a killer. And that’s what put me in bed bound, heart failure, you know? So, you know, I was told I would get 10% better in 10 years. I couldn’t stand up fully. I couldn’t walk upstairs. And someone tell you that I’m like, I can’t do it like this. And, uh, and basically what a peptide saved my life. And I walked in, you know, a year later when they did my desk. Like your heart’s normal. Yeah. You wonder what I did? Uh, yeah. I want you to tell me like, Oh, okay, thanks. Okay.

Matt Cook, M.D.

It’s like, it’s like, you’re, you’re like me when I find this stuff out, I’m like, you have got to be kidding me. This is the greatest thing in like, just about in history. And then I’m like basically studying day and night and thinking about this stuff every minute, because it’s so spectacular that we can do things like heal heart failure, which doesn’t it’s so sort of outside of the realm of, of the anesthesia residency that I was kind of trained in, because the idea was we were just going to manage that

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Algorithm algorithm. Um, yeah. It’s funny. Did you slate? Cause I got an intervention last night for my staff and I couldn’t sleep because I just, I start getting into the research while we’re showing you all around. There’s just papers everywhere. And I love it. All of a sudden it’s daylight and I have a meeting in the morning, you know, and I go to that all the time. They’re like, you have to stop, but you have to get bounds. You have to go out on the weekends.

Matt Cook, M.D.

So that’s, you know what I had this idea, this was a good one that I was aiming for an a minus, not like in, in kind of life. So I’ll work super hard, but then I generally kind of try to take the weekends off now, especially, yeah,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I’m building any imbalance. I know it. It’s just like, ah,

Matt Cook, M.D.

And then I’ll tell you that, you know what, there’s a lot, I think sleep is one of this huge, this is a huge opportunity. Um, for people that can’t sleep, I’ll get them to do their, a peptide stack at night. So, uh, and so what, you know, DSIP has been really great for us.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I love it. And it reduces, I plan my inflammation. Um, it’s, you know, we’re the number one tissue where it’s found it’s jeopardy it’s, uh, the gut.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Oh, that’s right. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, so actually going to have a product with that and, um, and KPB with it, um, which is, uh, Malana Courtney, which very anti-inflammatory um,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Great. I’ve been, have you had good results with KPB with your lionfish?

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. So we just bear started using it cause we couldn’t get it. Right. Um, and yeah, mass cell, which they all pretty much have. So, uh, right. I

Matt Cook, M.D.

Can’t believe what a big deal mass cell activation syndrome is.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

We didn’t I know we didn’t have this 20, 30 years ago. Yeah.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. Although I still remember it’s one of my favorite, like you have these memories, there was a general surgeon that I absolutely loved at Harbor view. Here’s like the nicest guy and he read it doesn’t go together, but he was super nice guy, but there was a woman who was saying all of this stuff that didn’t make sense. And then I remember he just said, get that crazy lady out of my office. And so then they’re like, I just, you have to go, I guess there’s nothing that we can do. What happens? I think with a lot of micro glial activation and what spinal cord is, is that you get an overlap where the spinal cord kinda miscommunicated. And so somebody might have pain and they’re growing, but, uh, they also have pain in the outside of the foot. 

Cause the spinal cord has a little overlap and they’re balls coming up, but it doesn’t make sense cause different nerves go to both of those locations. And so we didn’t understand this online patients and almost all patients with big immune problems. And especially these days COVID patients will have this type of phenomena where their presentation doesn’t exactly map the textbook, the way that we were taught, you know, 20 or 30 years ago. But I remember when I was taught 20 or 30 years ago, they said, what we’re teaching you now is just how to learn because the rules are all going to change, but the paradigms are going to change.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So the opposite now they teach you not how to learn. They teach you to memorize. And that’s like a, we, you know, try to hire a doctor out of, you know, be in the best schools. They’re like, like what’s the algorithm? Uh, there is no, there isn’t one. They’re all it’s, everyone’s different. It’s concepts. Yeah. They freak out.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Well, you know, I had this I’m, you know, I have been a huge believer in Chinese medicine and I ended up getting a doctorate and trying to just medicine and medical Qigong, but, and my first kind of foray into it, uh, at my medical school, we went and we, we did a exchange in China. We went to Chengdu and studied acupuncture with these doctors of acupuncture as the greatest, my favorite thing I ever did. And

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It’s really, I think helped you like, you know, kind of, Oh

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah, it was so good. And what happened is the university of Washington was doing this program of what was called problem based learning, which is kind of thinking in a, in a broad sort of systems approach to dealing with a problem. And so we went over there and it was interesting because we were there to teach them that. And it’s interesting, you get an idea and you’re like, you kind of run with it because of the Chinese healthcare system was based on the Russian model at that time. And so as a result, it was memorization. So I remember this kid came up to me and he goes, he’s came up to me and smiled. And he goes, can you name the 72 college and vascular diseases? And I was like, no. And he was horrified because they had, they had all seven to two and yet we had a model of approaching things. And so it was very interesting. Kind of cultural.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Can you tell me the one underlying cause of all of them? How about that? Exactly.

Matt Cook, M.D.

So then, uh, in a way that was like this idea that I got in 1997, it was right before the changeover, there was countdowns to when it was going down. And that idea has been with me basically ever since. And, and now really I think, you know, what I’m trying to do in a way you’re trying to do what a lot of people are trying to do is tick systems based thinking and, and then use use basically functional medicine approaches and techniques that involve peptides that involve regenerative medicine that revolved around kind of a coherent model of, of putting in inputs that are going to optimize how these systems work that began to have diverse effects on biological pathways.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And the Epogen and it phrase me, come in, this is where the action is happening and where people are getting better, but I worry where we are now, the FDA is trying to take it all away.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. I hope that doesn’t happen because you know, it’s interesting. I, uh, I have people it’s like, I have this, this kinda grandma and grandpa couple that I basically adopted that I just totally love. And, you know, as interesting, I was like, I’ve got him out of pain now. And he was like in like eight out of 10 pain for like 30 years. They’re like 80.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Not that we can do. Yeah.

Matt Cook, M.D.

And so then you realize, you realize, I like, I think that in a fairly profound way, you can begin to impact some of these conditions. And so then, you know, this is we’re going to, we have a lot of work in front of us for the next 20 or 30 years to kind of define these approaches and kind of figure out which patients benefit what the protocols are and trying to approach it in a real serious way. Um, and, and, and that goes for really all of musculoskeletal medicine, all of immunology, all of cardiovascular medicine. It’s just, it’s kind of amazing. It’s, it’s, I’m so excited to be a doctor that I can’t, I actually can’t like I pinch myself. I can’t believe I get through to do it.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Wow. Uh, yeah, go on servo and ask standard doctors. How many of them are, have they’re miserable?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Oh, they’re miserable. It’s kind of, it’s kind of interesting, but I always say that I felt like I’m kind of a bridge to, to,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I hate to see get out of where you are, but I have a sense that you should be teaching like a university. I would love to, if they would, they wouldn’t have the world in that way. You know,

Matt Cook, M.D.

I would go there. I would go help them tomorrow because know the interesting thing. This is the greatest, what I do is not that hard,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Like Walt to you.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Well, yeah, maybe it’s to me, but what I’m, what I’m actually saying is is that like, if you give me anesthesiologists and interventional people work, we can basically begin to tweak the way, how we approach medicine. And this is the first time I’ll say this on your podcast. Uh, I think that COVID is, you know, whenever something cataclysmic and crazy happens, it, it often leads to pervasive changes that lasts a long time and Lyme disease represented a kind of a fringe population and accepting it was, would have meant accepting a whole bunch of other things that the traditional healthcare system just didn’t want to accept.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And they had no incentive,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Expensive and difficult, and none of their, none of the approaches, the traditional medicine really work, except for antibiotics with laundry,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You don’t get paid more for spending an hour. The patients that have this six minutes, you know? Right. And then not to believe it it’s it’s there, you know,

Matt Cook, M.D.

And then that population, that population, the lion population has so much PTSD and stress and stuff like that. So it’s a difficult population. Uh, it turns out that the biology of COVID is very similar. It’s like a model of Lyme. And so then what I, and then what happens is, is to go back to kind of that chest pain case. Now we started seeing more and more people and they look just like our chronic line. Okay.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Is it going to be the next part of the syndrome?

Matt Cook, M.D.

It’s go. I think it will. And yet what’s going to happen is people are now having the conversation. People are now going to listen to this conversation and people are going to realize, Oh, okay. So there is a model that would begin to explain a lot of these symptoms. And then, then there’s a model. So peptides different approaches,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Except that they’re not, Oh, it’s a crazy woman that’s stressed out,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Which goes back to that, get that crazy person out of my office. And I remember it’s like, I remember in the back of my mind, I go, this isn’t right. Or there’s something else going on, but I don’t know what it is. And it was kind of like, they just tell you to do something. So it’s like, it was my first real profound cognitive dissonance that I ever had professionally. And it was totally amazing because I wasn’t able to reconnect to that moment until about six or seven years ago. And I remembered that moment. I go, Oh, that was what was happening. That poor lady. You know what I mean? So hopefully you wish, I wish I wish I could go back there and I would say, God I’m. So

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

How did you transfer to the functional medicine? What’s that? How’d you transfer to the, whatever. I hate that all the terms, but I guess functional medicine, precision medicine is better than anti aging and alternative, but, um, how did you transfer? And this is, I think you’re kind of like me where people ask what I do at a party. I don’t know how to answer. I just say, I’m a quack, just leave it at that. Then they ask more questions, right. Or you tell them what to do. They all, well, my doctor says it was not more, well then why you talk to them? How’s that working for you? You know? Um, but, but how, how did you get into, out of standard medicine to this crazy alternative more evidence-based, they’ll tell you that. But

Matt Cook, M.D.

So it’s, you know, it’s interesting. Cause I was, um, I, you know, my, I had this deep interest in Chinese medicine and so, you know, was doing medical chigong and I was doing acupuncture. And so I was treating some musculoskeletal stuff with that and I was doing a lot of myofascial therapy and treating the fascia and doing hands on approaches. And I realized that systems approach of functional medicine, the approach was very similar to that thing that I found so appealing in medical school. And so I thought, you know what I’m going to do. I’m going to go get certified in functional medicine. And I’m going to have an integrative wellness practice and I’ll wrap the myofascial stuff that I was doing. And I’m going to wrap it up.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I’m told your colleagues. So you’re crazy. They thought it was,

Matt Cook, M.D.

You know, it’s interesting that I was like totally beloved by like the surgeons. And, but I worked

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

About knee turned nine yet.

Matt Cook, M.D.

No, they, they love me. And they just thought I was kinda mildly crazy for doing that. They were like, yeah, I don’t know. There’s like, there’s no money in that. I don’t like, they talk to me like kind of a loving big brother.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

They really like, like, that’s good for you. God glad you think that.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. But they were like, I don’t think there’s not any money there. You’re not kind of like, there was a very coaching me to kind of let that go and just focus on anesthesia. So that was, I was doing that. And so I had this kind of dual life where I was spending part of my time doing this integrative stuff and talking about it. And most people were not super interested in kind of integrative stuff. Back then. I was like, all of these people I was talking about being gluten free, like 10 years ago, people are like, what are you talking about? No

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Crazy guy. But I don’t know.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Then at the same time, all I did all day long was ultrasound guided nerve blocks. So I was doing two or three tibial, nerve blocks, a couple of sciatic, nerve blocks, a couple of femoral nerve blocks. I was breakup plexus. So all I did all day was that. And then about five years ago, I found out if you put STEM cells or other things around nerves, you can start to improve nerves.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You crazy, man.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Then all of a sudden, immediately I just quit doing anesthesia. Cause I got overnight busy doing that and that I, I began and I, at that moment I realized functional medicine and these systems approaches to healthcare, help nerve pain and myofascial and joint pain. And then also fixing that stuff to often had other systemic effects. And so then all of a sudden I took and kind of pulled everything together in my life into kind of one kind of cohesive approach. And then I’ve been doing that.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, I, I think it comes down to your passion to learn and keep investigating. Yeah. I think that’s what makes a difference. And, and I don’t go there anymore, but like, SERMO, it’s just a bunch of miserable doctors. I can’t get out of this. Can’t get out of this. And I say, and I used to post and say, do something great and better than what else. And then get out of the system. Oh, I can’t do that. You know, it’s like, it’s like my brother, they call me anti, Tony Robbins. It’s like, you tell them, do this. I’ll give you a thousand reasons why. Right. And stuff. It’s just like, uh, but I’ll tell you, I remember

Matt Cook, M.D.

Viscerally. I bought like a Tony Robbins program when I was 17. And I was like, I’m going to make it someday. Like, and I was, I started doing Tony Robbins style programming on myself and like, I’ve never said this it’s insane. How much, how incredibly helpful he was to me. And so then I listened to those tapes. Then I took, I got the CDs and I transcribed them and I would like, and, and then now what I always tell everybody is, and people tease me about it, but I always say, it’s going to be amazing. And in a way I’m kind of programming that. And some people have a lot of stress and PTSD and I became probably one of the favorite things that I do in my career is kind of help people with that stuff.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh yeah. It’s it’s major. Or it’s like, I meet, uh, veterans now and then, uh, posttraumatic stress. And it’s been so strange because I said, I will treat you for free. And this one guy at a party was basically telling me everything. And I’m like, let me ask you that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that any guy he says, no one, they say it’s all my head. And I’m like, it’s not, I will show you on paper. I start crying. And he starts crying, but they never come in. I don’t know what it is. Yeah. It’s, it is very strange.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Let me, let me tell you my thought on PTSD. This is a good one. Um, first of all, so many people with PTSD, they’re stuck in fight or flight. And so then that you’re trying to get out of that. You gotta do something. And so next thing you know, they’re self-medicating. And so a lot of times there’s a little bit of alcohol and drugs overload now on top of it. And so what I found is I figure that out, if there’s any alcohol and drug stuff going on, Dimas in beta four is as a peptide has been fantastic for me on the addiction front. And so what I’m doing is I’m getting people on that and ramping them up. And I’m using that with DPC one, five, seven. The issue is if I think that there’s a lot going on on the immune front, all preload that with fibrous and alpha or thyme you’ll win, but then that thymus and beta forest seems to be really good for addiction. And, and, and it starts to help these people feel better intrinsically a little bit.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And like it’s shown to reduce your intake of substance and BBC shown to reduce, um, you know, basically withdrawals and cravings and yeah. That’s like the hallway static. Okay.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. So you’re, you’re, you build a lot of homeostasis with those. That’s exactly right. And so then that becomes a place to now to kind of start from, and so then ketamine has been really amazing. We do a lot of work with ketamine and we always do any deep before it, because when you optimize the mitochondria, then ketamine works better. It turns out that if you do modesty and human ketamine, definitely like twice as effective. So we’re doing a lot where we’re combining mitochondrial peptides. Interestingly, I did.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Can we get ’em

Matt Cook, M.D.

But it’s hard to get them. I know

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

We’re going to have the 5,000,001 in queue, which we’ve had like a, one of our in employees had, you know, terrible, um, OCD. And also she had lied, but she had started me in work it up yet. And three days gone, isn’t that crazy? Yeah. Three days of a five and being a woman in Cuba.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Awesome. And so interestingly, we,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

In my first four years,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Look, the things that I have done a lot of, for, for PTSD has been, uh, stellate, ganglion, block, vagus nerve hydrodissection, uh, a bunch of different peptide protocols ketamine, but we also have done a lot of neurofeedback and there was always this question, is it soup? Or is it spark? Is it the biochemistry of what’s going on? Or is that the electricity? And so then we would do these programs where you would wear the EKG leads on your head and

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Try to train abroad

Matt Cook, M.D.

An area, an area of the brain that was kind of physiologically off to turn back on. And so then we’re trying to get that to happen and with some modest success, but it’s a lot of work. And typically those, it takes 40 times to do those protocols. Now, what I’m really focused on is realizing if I can turn the mitochondria on in the brain and start to biochemically, you start to have experiences like what you’re saying. If I have immuno, when I’m to everything

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Physiologically is psychologically, you know, it’s neuron spiral. Right.

Matt Cook, M.D.

And so now, now it’s super interesting to begin to say, Oh, okay, I have a bunch of ways to physiologically, start to turn

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Parts of the brain on

Matt Cook, M.D.

To reset the balance between rest and relax in fight or flight. And basically, and it was, it was based upon this concept that I named my company by a reset, cause we were trying to do a biological reset. But then what that does is that’s a reset and now you go live your life. And so then you’re coming back in and getting reset and living your life. But basically the idea is we’re trying to reset you basically kind of the factory default settings. And interestingly, that means you’re not going to be on drugs forever because we’re turning these biological systems back on so that you can be,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

What do you do? You’re not used to that.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. And, and this is if like for people out there listening, I think this is a, a really big concept because then all of a sudden, this is an alternate strategy in terms of the practice of medicine, then giving you something that you’re going to take as a drug tweak, how you feel every day. Instead, what we’re doing is we’re doing something to kind of reset the mechanics. I always tell people, I kind of, I think of myself as a McKinsey consultant, McKenzie is this big, you know,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You are not your typical anesthesiologist,

Matt Cook, M.D.

But we’re, we’re just kind of looking under the hood, trying to figure out what, what parts of that biochemistry are off reset it. And then once that happens, now

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I got a blank slate. Like where do they go from there?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Well, so then what I say is then once you’re a blank slate then program. And so now program, so one program is it’s going to be amazing. One program. Is it safe for me to be me? One program is, is like, Oh, my life is super fun.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Actually, maybe you should be a cult leader and you can,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. I don’t have enough energy for that

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Program follow up. That says,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Right. Yeah. Well, I kind of, I kind of, I’ll say to people, like, I’ll say intentionally, this I’ll say ketamine is makes you super hypnotizable people. And so I always say this, and so I say just what we’re going to do, we’re going to decide what you program in and then we’re going to program in whatever you want to program.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I don’t think I’ll be hypnotized. I’ve never been on ketamine. So I don’t know. But yeah,

Matt Cook, M.D.

I think you can, because basically what happens is, is there’s a, there’s a,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Can you hypnotize me to get more balance in my life?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s going to come. I think that that’s going to come. And as that comes,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

What happened

Matt Cook, M.D.

It’s with all of these peptides is as the protocols get better and better, you start sleeping better. You have more energy during the day, the more energy it’s interesting. These mitochondrial things. When you have more energy in the day, you actually sleep better at night.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. But I get energy at like 11 and then I’m awake, but I’m excited about what I’m doing. I don’t even realize also the sun comes up cause you weren’t. Somebody’s favorite thing is reading studies and trying to find new crap, new, interesting things with it. Well,

Matt Cook, M.D.

It is, it is astounding. You know, somebody told me this, a good one. Somebody told me, um, you gotta just go to the hospital and just walk around and pay attention. And then they said, you’re gonna you’re to notice problems. Like there was this one guy that his name was Fogarty and he was noticing that, you know, it’s just, they do this huge surgeries for people that have like a blockage in their artery. And then, uh, they would stick a cath. They would, they would have to do open up and then they would have to take a vein out and they would bypass the blockage. And this was because everybody was smoking at the time and it’s smoking causes disease in your arteries. And then he thought, what if you stuck a catheter in there and then blew it up and then just kind of did. And so then that literally totally revolutionized medicine forever. Okay.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Just to be outside of your element to think, or, or I have a little notepad in the shower, cause he always called with the ideas in the shower. I’ll have the negative ions or whatever it is, you know, it’s like, Oh my God.

Matt Cook, M.D.

And so then I remember I was hanging out, um, and I’m from Missoula, Montana. And I was hanging out with these cardiac surgeons. Cause they were like the King of the heat back when we were, you know, young. And so they were like, Hey, I’m going to send you up to see this cardiologist, but they go, just go up there and get out of there. Cause cardiologist’s not that interesting. But you got to know where these patients come from. And so I was like, okay. So I went up there. I was like 20. I was on my way to medical school. I was 22 years old. And so I go up there and the sky comes. I still remember it to this day because he goes, you know, those guys down there, he goes, how many rooms are they running? Like a three. 

He goes, that’s what I thought that at that time, every small hospital in North America was doing open heart surgery in three rooms, three times a day. And they were the King of the hospital cause they brought all the revenue to the hospital. So then I go up there and he goes kid. He goes, I’m not going to be sending these people down there anymore. He goes, this is the future of medicine we’re putting stents in. And it’s the same thing that Folker D was doing in the arteries, in the leg. And now they’re opening it up. Now, interestingly, what I think is going to happen is in 15 years, we’re not going to be doing most of these orthopedic surgeries. I presided over kind of an era of orthopedic surgery, doing everything. We’re going to start to fix these tendons and ligaments and fascia and nerves and joints, percutaneously and patients are going to begin to take control and start to do things. And then there’s going to be an entire new era of pain management where nothing is done in the future. They’re going to look at what we do now is relatively par bearer.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

They’re like, Oh, we were just doing that. Yeah,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah, yeah. They used to, and we’ll say, we’ll get on a podcast. Me and you in 20 years, it’d be like, Oh yeah, I remember when we were talking about that. And it’s amazing because,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, I have a, I have a talk years ahead. It takes on average, a proven new therapy except the mainstream medicine takes on average 17 years. Unless it’s a new drug where there’s a Salesforce. Yeah.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Okay. So, so then this is my idea. This is why I’m so grateful for you and for, for people like you and what you’re doing with this. Because the other thing that’s happening is is that with media, like now, I mean I’m getting phone calls from people from Kuwait,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Um, Germany and England. And

Matt Cook, M.D.

What I think is going to happen is, is that ideas travel much faster than they did before. And ideas are traveling and patient communities just like, you know, COVID, you know, we’re on Facebook groups with thousands of people and people are sharing.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It has all the suppression from Google, the mainstream media, the media it’s group anywhere you can’t find the true.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah, I know that’s, uh, that’s disturbing. And at the same time, then I think it creates an opportunity to then share the truth. The, uh, the, I always wear these shirts from this, the issue that have the logo, inscribed knowledge, wisdom, truth on the insights group that is named Graham. And, and I think that what’s gonna happen is, is that a truth? That’s going to percolate, percolate up to the top and then what’s going to happen

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And then get crushed. And probably

Matt Cook, M.D.

It’s going to get crushed here or there, but, um, you know, light shines and then it, it, it light is the opposite of darkness. You know, the light is gonna rise up to the top and what’s going to happen with the, like we have seen what I think is almost, it feels like an exponential rise of immune and autoimmune and inflammatory conditions, like theme partially related to culture and diet and lifestyle and all of this stuff.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. It’s multifactorial

Matt Cook, M.D.

The factorial. And we have, we haven’t really had multifactorial approaches like functional medicine is a multifactorial multifactorial approach to a multifactorial problem, which is yeah.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And you’re criticized for it

Matt Cook, M.D.

Model. Hasn’t worked very well for those, for that entire class

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

One treatment, one disease.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah, exactly. I had a gun.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

What scares me? It’s like now Google is the basically determining the true. And when you look at the levels of evidence, you don’t go as double blind placebo controlled study, uh, you know, whatever signal men analysis saying goodbye. And then you have, you know, case studies, anecdote stories, um, what’s below that is societal guidelines are the worst they’re shown to be worse than anecdotal, uh, studies. Why is that? The 20 years behind the times they don’t look at the one side and that’s what Google is say you’re using like for this COVID thing, they’re going by the guidelines of the societies, like who and suppressing everything else. Like if you just give everyone a nursing home, vitamin D vitamin C by us then, but by setting, uh, you know, zinc, I, we, no one should be dying at this point.

Matt Cook, M.D.

No, I agree with that. Although I have to tell you, I’m kind of, it’s one of the most humbling things that I have, I have faced, uh, in my interview.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, I guess on STEM cells, boom, STEM cells and peptides is, you know, reverse. And, uh,

Matt Cook, M.D.

And I think, I think Coca it’s a multifactorial and it definitely, definitely from my perspective, the F the, the, the optimal approach is going to involve those ozone and flavonoids and

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Brownstein study, um, you know, basically nebulize peroxide and they made him take it down there and say, well, it’s fake, there’s no truth in medicine. This is the truth until another study comes along, but there can’t be any alternative. There won’t allow any alternative thoughts. It’s like, there’s book burning going on right now.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. That is, that is, I agree with you. It’s, it’s, it’s a shame, uh, if that is a shame and, and yet I’m like, I’m, I, I, by nature, I’m a little bit of a Pollyanna, you know, I’m, I’m a very positive person and I’ve always been a super cool,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Beautiful,

Matt Cook, M.D.

But I, and I, I feel that what’s going to happen with COBA does, it could be so many people that have fairly substantial issues. It’s like these people that I’ve been seeing that our post COVID, that is a, it’s fairly,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Just written off

Matt Cook, M.D.

And you’re, you’re not going to be able to write that off. And so then it was like, I, you know, I saw somebody that had three months of chest pain and they retreated him one time and then everything went away for 10 days. And then it slowly started to come back and they came back in and we treated it.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

What was the Trinidad, by the way,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Uh, ozone NAD, Clara Sutton, vitamin C gludethyon thymus and alpha one thymus in beta for PPC. You went by stuff.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

How dare you get someone better without a vaccine?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Well, the vaccine, um, I would love that I would, there’s no one that would be more delighted than me if the vaccine works. Um,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It’s a little scary though. RNA vaccines, you know,

Matt Cook, M.D.

I I’m I’m, I would be, I would be skeptical that it will be effective, very effective.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

We’re a big, and for how many years

Matt Cook, M.D.

We haven’t really ever had, I don’t think a real successful vaccine for coronavirus. There’s more bandwidth being kind of put out towards that. And, you know, not everybody does perfect with vaccines also. So then that’s a,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Hey, I got in so much trouble for saying something about vaccines on Fox news, then I’m not anti vacs. I’m just saying, let’s just discuss it. Oh God. It was like, I was the devil. Yeah. That’s fun. I’m, you know, I’m actually trying to actively talk a little bit about that because I think, you know, I, I was vaccinated and I went through that and got vaccines as I traveled all over the world and stuff like that when I was younger and I was relatively healthy. And so I, I didn’t really have any issues. Um, but the population of patients with profound immune problem

Matt Cook, M.D.

Dysfunction or mitochondrial dysfunction actually devastated, They’ll have big challenges.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I’ve said we have da and I don’t do any more of you say, Oh no, no relation, but I think we could talk forever. I love talking to you. Well, let’s just finish up. Tell me about your peptide P shot.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Oh man. That’s super interesting. And so, um, I’ve been taking care of guys with erectile dysfunction for years, and we have a bunch of different approaches that we use. We do a shockwave therapy, which has been helpful. We do some electrical therapies for the patients.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Can you kind of explain each thing a little, just a little bit?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Oh yeah. So what, there’s a couple of different forms of a shockwave, one where there’s basically a little jackhammer that is almost like a jackhammer, but it’s just about this big, and it does a little shock wave where it’s it, there’s the mechanical, a little pissed and inside that sends sound waves into the penis and it creates an inflammatory response, but it improves blood vessels and it breaks up plaque and can have some healing effects for the nerves. Uh, we have one that does that and we have another one has the, is a piece of electric version of the same thing. So it has some electrical, uh, sound wave it’s different from the regular shock wave. So we’ll do that. Um, the traditional approach was, and there’s a guy named Charles Reynolds. Who’s been the great leader in this area. And so what he did is he came up with this term, the P shot.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And so what he does is he takes a blood out and spins it down and isolates the platelets. And then you can inject those platelets into the penis. What I discovered is the penis. It looks like a double barrel shotgun. And if I put my ultrasound, if I put my ultrasound, I can actually see the, all of the structures inside there. And so then what I started doing is using my ultrasound cause I can look and I can see the arteries and I can see the nerves and not hit them. And then I go Fran, and then I inject the fluid around the nerve and then inject the fluid, actually entered the area, the double barrel called the Corpus cavernosum missing the artery. And so that was a great experience and we treated a lot of people. And, and if somebody had mine, elder rectal dysfunction, what I can tell you is a pretty darn helpful.

Matt Cook, M.D.

If somebody had mild, a mild case, we would generally often see them get almost all the way better. And so guys treatments, uh, sometimes one, sometimes two, but this is guys that they said, you know what I, my, uh, my erection used to be a 10. Now it’s a 10 if I take Fiat. Yeah. But now it’s a seven and they’re 45 years old. Now that guy generally, I think has an immune component on top of everything else to the rectal dysfunction as I was, as I was telling you earlier, almost everybody that you see that has peripheral neuropathy has erectile dysfunction.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And so then I started saying, well, wait a second. What would happen if you start to put peptides in a, because I’m fixing, seeing all of these nerves and nerve pains, I thought, what happens if I put some peptides by the dorsal nerve to the penis? And I started just doing that. And then I started actually putting it up everywhere. And I had guys who, the only way that they could get an erection is if they injected something called Trimix into their penis. Now with these people PT one 41, how did that work with those two that PT went for you? Is this peptide that helps you, uh, have an erection. And generally I find that very helpful. Um, what I’ll tell you is that the, some of the patients, some, some immune patients, well, people with Lyme disease, sometimes we’ll have a hard time with PT one 41, and it’ll almost throw them into little bit of a Herxheimer reaction, uh, in a similar way to the way that sometimes people with a lot of autoimmune and lime will have a hard time with the growth hormone, secreted cogs now. Yeah.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. I think I have a hard time with anything. I always tell them for a supplement, look at it for a week, smell it for a week. Maybe lick it and then take a little bit. Yeah,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Exactly. But, but in general, the PT one 41 has been a home run. And so then what we will do is I’ll have people do it, it fades if you do it all the time,

Matt Cook, M.D.

I have problems with, you know, people getting dark. Uh, and if there are older dark spots coming out

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And especially if they take it on vacation and they go to Costa Rica, there is sun every day. And so, but PT one can be very helpful, um, as, as an approach. Um, and, and interestingly, all of these peptides and molecules and platelets work in different ways. So it’s like I had one guy who had end-stage, he could only get an erection if he injected himself with the, uh, with these things that the, the urologist give to give, to force me to get a hard on. Yeah. And so I, and interestingly, when he came in and I’ve seen this probably about a hundred times now, where good looking guy, and he came in and I looked, and it was kind of crazy. His penis was great, like dusty. It was interesting. And so then I started, I gave him a couple of pee shots. Didn’t help at all in terms of erections, but all of a sudden his penis was pink.

Matt Cook, M.D.

And so I was like, God, it looks great. He was like, well, Hey, aesthetically. He was like, thank you. But he goes, that didn’t do anything for me. And he was like a good friend of mine. So I was like, well, so then the great thing is, is when then we just started to work our way up the, the, the, the chain. And I tried regenerative approaches and some cells and stuff like that, and still nothing. Um, and then I started to do peptides and then next thing you know, uh, sometimes he can have sex with nothing. Sometimes you can have sex with Biafra, uh, but he’s not doing anything near what he had to do before, where I kind of classify record this function from class one to class four. And he was like an in-stage class forum where you kind of moved back up to a two or three and hold, was he in 65

Matt Cook, M.D.

And other medical problems?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Not, not so much, but, uh, Lyme and mold and all that stuff that was fairly well managed and stable, but that goes to this peripheral neuropathy. And to this idea that you can have immune mediated nerve issues. It’s, I wouldn’t think of a 65 year old guy being end-stage like that. If there wasn’t an immune component and peptides are real quick at resetting the immunity around nerves. And so then now you begin to think, Oh, okay. So I’m looking at any era that area of the body. And so then think headaches. So then we’re doing like hydrodissection of the greater occipital nerve, the nerves and the throat, the nerves in the neck, the neuros under the mouth, uh, the nerves, um, basically everywhere on the body. And then as you begin to reset this, you begin to physiologically sort of reset the inflammatory state.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, nerve. Okay.

Matt Cook, M.D.

And interestingly, like, that’s everything. Cause that’s the electricity that’s, what’s controlling the physiological. Yep.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Because I think when I had Lyme, I thought I had BPH, right. Every classic symptom could sit there forever trying to be blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, basically treated the line where, where that, I don’t know, but they only did ultrasound. I don’t know BPH. Right? Yeah. So

Matt Cook, M.D.

This thing with Lyme disease and, and what happens, I think is with Lyme disease, there’s a lot of people who actually have inflammation in their bladder. I think there’s a big association between Lyme disease and interstitial cystitis.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, which is, which is a mass cell condition. Yeah.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yes. Which is kind of analogous, uh, to a BPH type of pain. It’s almost like you were on the spectrum of kind of interstitial cystitis and probably had some mass cell stuff going on. And there’s probably a there’s bacteria that can live in that. Even though we think of the bladder as being kind of sterile, there’s probably a microbiome in the bladder and there’s, and then with when there’s immune dysfunction, it’s very common that little infections as particularly stealth infections start to get out of control. So then now all of a sudden people are see a lot of people with mine that I’ve prostititus and inflammation.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And so then now

Matt Cook, M.D.

Taking that and then realizing that, that I’m going to have a systems approach to that. So I’m going to have an immune kind of approach to that. I’m going to think about the nerves. I’m gonna try to think vascular. So what’s the blood supply what’s happening with that. And, and how can we that, and then what’s going on with the gut, because the gut has a huge impact because the gut, the intestine is red behind that prostate, you can touch the prostate from the colon. And so then now beginning to understand that now we have tools to modulate all of those systems, which is, I mean, that’s spectacular.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And have you tried the TB for frag and BBC the TB for brag?

Matt Cook, M.D.

So I was, uh, I was an enormously grateful because I remember, um, I was at a meeting and I remember, I felt like I totally made it because somebody walked up to me and said, Hey, are you dr. Cook? And I go, yeah. And they go, dr. Hall turf wants you to have this. And then I had cell phone. And so then I took them and I felt totally fantastic when I took him. I have not used them for BPH. Although I just saw a couple of years,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

They’re putting in place a key before, you know, um, I want to see what you think. Yeah, yeah.

Matt Cook, M.D.

I’ll give it a try because, uh, because I think that thymus in beta four and then is, is the key to resetting auto-immunity central nervous system.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And I think the component, um, yeah. And, uh, so yeah, I’ll, I’ll say that the senior feedback,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Let me tell, just for people to hear. Cause I think it’d be useful for them to hear, explain the difference between T before and T before frag.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. So TB four is a long molecule, um, as different domains, um, different domains do similar, but different things. For instance, there’s, we have a team before, if we want for hair growth, there’s one, but the TB for frag. And we use this at the end terminal and a lot of great studies on it shows that it has basically the same effects of the TB for and better for a lot of things, much more indifferent. Brodick’s about 10 times as potent, uh, per weight. It takes out there’s a domain of, if you give someone T before with mass cell, it generally helps because you’re helping the upstream commune, modulation. Um, but there’s part of it that directly stimulates mass cells. So that is basically taken out Navitar nicotine before orally, you get no absorption. So this has shown to absorb orally full, um, very good absorption, uh, and studies across the blood brain barrier. Uh, so you get the effects, um, that you can take orally.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. I think that’s going to be great for so many patients.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Then we also added it to O S T before, which is the, um, uh, chemo for a Frank plus, which, because there’s a lot of between a lot of the Fleming peptides, especially small molecular weight, that absorb. Um, and so we added a, uh, small molecular weight, uh, process. Uh, Binus extract to that. You said that, that, that we may, we process it. So it has at least 150 micrograms of T before in there, as long as, as well as other peptides. You know,

Matt Cook, M.D.

I think that that’s a very good idea because I think that diversity, that diversity, if you’re, you’re, you’re providing the whole symphony rather than just the violin soloist, which I think generally is like a better approach.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. I mean, you tend to, I mean, there’s limits if the drug models, this is going to do this, but your body’s uses of creating multiple, you know, of these things. So, but plus we guarantee, Hey, the while we know that has all these studies is in there. Yeah. So I’m going to send you more awesome. Are you Matt cook? Yeah, but, uh, Oh my God, I can go on, I don’t know how long we’ve been speaking. Um, I can go on forever with you. Uh, it just, you’re amazing. Um, and thank you so much. I think this was a great talk and I’ve learned so much and I’m sure, uh, everyone who watches this is just gonna be, uh, you know, blown away.

Matt Cook, M.D.

Yeah. I’m delighted to be with you if you ever want to talk to Jen, I’ll come on any time. And I learned a lot and, uh, I learned a lot preparing for it and, uh, I look forward to learning from you and sharing information and,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I want to come up and see all this stuff you’re doing. So, uh, it’d be awesome. Yeah, that’d be great. And so how does someone find them get ahold of you?

Matt Cook, M.D.

You can, our websites, bio reset.com. And I’ve got a podcast by reset podcast.com. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

How long has that been going on?

Matt Cook, M.D.

Uh, basically just since COVID and so we’re, uh, I’ll have you on and we’ll do, we’ll do some, we’ll do a deep dive into some of the stuff that you’re doing.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You haven’t been shut down yet. Okay.

Matt Cook, M.D.

And your experience? Well, I’m taking kind of a, uh, just what I think is a straightforward and kind of thoughtful, careful approach of not trying to market anything, but just to explain how I’m thinking about things and hopefully, um, hopefully that’s okay. Like that’s, that’s my approach. And, um, I’m hoping that that’s going to be okay. I miss, you know, I’m sincere. Yeah.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

He used to be the truth would say, you pray, I know throughout the same in jail,

Matt Cook, M.D.

But we have to create a list. I’m going to create a new paradigm. We’re going to be the we’re, we’re representing like a, uh, a small little corner of the universe where I it’s, it’s kind of safe to kind of try new ideas and, and do it in a thoughtful and careful way and not hurt people. And then, you know, hopefully that, that someday, you know, that’ll be the dominant paradigm. And then with the better idea,

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Pretty one. And I love it. I went to Robbins, he does the direct goes up, you know, and he tells patients, I can take out my prescription pad and kill you, and nothing will happen to me cause that’s a known side effect of this drug. But if I do this alternative treatment and anything happens in harms, I’m in huge trouble, you know? And so, you know, we’re doing these things safely and effectively. This is where the actions, but it’s tough fighting, you know, big pharma and their enforcement, uh, uh, uh, they basically armed the FDA, you know? And so anyways, I, I can talk to wherever I got to stop talking to spirits. So anyways,

Matt Cook, M.D.

Great, great to be with you. And I look forward to more.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Hey, same here. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know you’re so busy. You’re probably going back to do some more treatments. I only have two more injections. Oh my gosh. All right. Bye. Bye

Matt Cook, M.D.

It’s to be, it’s going to be amazing. That’s what I always tell people. And then just kind of connect. These are kind of sketchy times, but just connect to this idea that like the human body has an incredible capability to heal and, and, uh, we’re here for you and we’re never going to give up on you.

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Hey, you’re a wise man. Appreciate it. Have a great day. Take care. All right. Don’t work too hard. Bye bye.