Never Fear Breast Cancer Again

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Thank you so much Kashif, I’m really excited to hear all the other speakers and the work that you’re doing is simply amazing.

Kashif Khan

Oh, thank you, thank you so much. And we all, I mean, we’re all coming together, we all have our stories, and what drove our passion and why we do what we do, but ultimately let’s keep healing people. And again, thank you for joining. I’ve looked at some of the stuff you’ve done and it’s so aligned with the way we think, and how little women know about breast cancer and what they need to know that it was exciting to have you on and talk to you. But maybe we’ll start with your personal story and what got you to where you are today and why you’re doing what you’re doing.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah, like you said, we all have our pain to passion story.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Mine started with my father who died of pancreatic cancer back in 1983, and I’d been in practice for about three years and conventional medicine basically sent him home to die, gave him no hope, and I just knew that there was something that could be done because I understood that cancer was just a symptom, it wasn’t the cause. But, back then, no internet, not too many people to talk to, but did some research at the library, I did talk to some people who had cancer clinics, which back then they were few and far between, and started to understand a little bit more about cancer and what it was and what it wasn’t. So fast forward, 23 years later, I’m in the shower and I’m getting ready for work, and I’m doing a breast exam and bam, felt that lump, that changed the course of my life professionally and personally. And, I was a wellness warrior. I mean, I ate organic before organic was in style, I was exercising, chiropractic care, I mean, you name it, I was doing it. So I had to really look in the mirror and ask myself, “How could somebody like me develop cancer?” What was I missing, what were pieces of the puzzle? So I just literally sat down with a pen and paper and started looking at all the aspects that were needed to heal the body, and it was almost like a download, and that’s how I came up with the “7 Essentials System”. It’s a step by step guide that if you follow, you never have to fear cancer, any disease at all, because as you know, and your audience will come to learn that we have such a large measure of control on how our body heals and reacts to our lifestyle, the environment, the stress, all of that. So I was able to heal my body in 2004 through 2006, did everything outside of conventional treatments, so everything was natural, and fast forward, about nine years where I’m known as the “Breast Cancer Conqueror,” I’m coaching women with breast cancer all over the world and sucking in all that energy and not taking care of myself. and feeling stressed out, my hormones were out of balance, I had some dental issues that needed addressing and I created the perfect storm for cancer to show up again.

Kashif Khan

Oh, wow.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah, so good news is I worked really hard for three years, dug even deeper into the research. And so since 2018, all is well, and I’m happier and healthier than I’ve ever been.

Kashif Khan

That’s amazing because you got to the why, which so many of us never get to learn. In fact, it’s incredible to me that when you go to certain websites, whether they’re hospitals or research papers, whatever, they’ll tell you, “Here’s what we think about this certain type of cancer and this is how you treat it.” But why it happens, we really don’t know, and the why–

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

That’s such a good point.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, and the why is really what you dug into. And if you look at your system, it’s very obvious that you understand the why well, right? And this makes me think of something what you said earlier that at the time that you first got hit and your father first got hit, that cancer centers were far and few between, is that because people didn’t know or is it because it was just so less prevalent because the why is that trigger it?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah, totally less prevalent, absolutely. I mean, we know now that cancer is escalating and one out of two people will have some form of cancer in the next decade. So, it’s definitely increasing, and on the thought of getting to the why, there was a recent survey done on oncologists and women with breast cancer, and they recognize that doctors can cure, quote, unquote, I use that term lightly, the disease, but they don’t help people heal the disease in their body. So even traditional oncology is recognizing that there’s more to it than just cutting out the tumor, or radiating it, or doing chemotherapy.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, it’s kind of like there’s a fire brewing and you just keep getting rid of the ash and the fire whatever’s fueling it, there’s still more fuel dumping, and now there’s more ash, you understand it? So the why is truly important, but to figure out the why, people have to work with people like yourselves that are going beyond just dealing with a symptom. So, that’s where what you’ve put together in terms of your 7 Essentials System, I feel like we could spend an entire hour just talking about that, we probably will. So, maybe we’ll dive into it slowly and look at each one. So the first thing that you say is, “Let food be your medicine.” Is that even possible today, and what does that look like for someone?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Well, first of all, there’s no cookie cutter diet when it comes to cancer or any disease, we’re all bio-individuals, obviously you know that with the work that you do. So to say that only plant-based or only carnivore based is the way to eat, there’s everything in between we’re all bio individuals, which is why I love genetic testing because it shows us what our individual needs are. But if you just take a big macro view of it, organic as much as possible, lot of raw, lots of veggies, nuts and seeds, avoiding the toxic foods, the pre-made foods, those sorts of things, and really monitoring your blood sugar, I think that’s key, because insulin resistance, high carbohydrate diets, are associated with the higher risk of breast cancer and many other types of cancers. So, cutting back on your grains and your carbohydrates is key. So we really encourage the women in our community, check your blood sugar after you eat, check your blood sugar first thing in the morning to see if you’re developing that insulin resistance or not.

Kashif Khan

And when it comes to the plants, you’re hearing a lot of, and I don’t know if this is just noise of people trying to get attention on social media so they have to say something sensational, but you’re hearing a lot of, “Humans weren’t meant to eat plants, give a dog a plant, he doesn’t want it, he wants meat.” So are we saying, eat less meat, are we saying we need more plants, or is it a little bit of both?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

I think it’s a balance. I mean, I have dogs that eat vegetables and meat every day. I mean, it’s raw meat. So, you have to, again, we think, “Oh dogs only eat meat,” but when they were on totally meat diet, they develop some health issues, so I had to incorporate some vegetables in their diet. Same thing goes for humans, and there is certain kinds of testing, one test that I’ve recommended is nutrition genome testing, where you look specifically at the genetic snips that have to do specifically with the foods and the supplementation that you may need, that can help take some of the guesswork out of what’s going on with your diet. Dr. Nick Gonzalez, he’s no longer with us, but he looked at the metabolic approach of cancer, the sympathetic versus parasympathetic approach, and which kind of diet is best for that particular cancer and patient based on their nerve system. So there’s all different kinds of ways of looking at the diet, and that’s why I say no cookie cutter. Somebody who says it’s only plant based, that’s the only way to go, run the other way, because I don’t think they have the clinical experience and background to really look at the big picture.

Kashif Khan

So the second thing you say is, “Reduce your toxic exposure.” And we know that there’s this kind of silent killer where our current reality isn’t what we were designed for. We talk about this a lot, so what is your experience there?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Well, we can’t live in a bubble, we live in a toxic world. So how do we adapt to that, or how do we make changes so that we’re not exposed to the toxins as much? So look at your environment, look at the outside of your home, the yard, what you’re putting in your grass and your plants, look inside your home, I mean, there are hundreds of chemicals that are related to developing cancer, some of the cleaning agents, the sprays, all the toxic stuff we put in our homes, the paints, the carpeting, the furniture, all those things, you can change those things. Look at what you put on your skin. Again, hundreds of chemicals that are absorbed into the skin that are hormone disrupting, that are known as xenoestrogens or chemical estrogens that can mimic and really create some aggressive estrogens in the body. So look at those things, change simple things, change your toothpaste, change what you put on your skin, use essential oils instead of the sprays in your home, learn how to detox your body. There was a study called the BUS Study, blood, urine, and saliva, where they looked at which one of those avenues was most effective in helping to detox environmental chemicals and heavy metals, and they found that sweating was the most effective. So–

Kashif Khan

Oh, really?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah, so sweating by far, it was a large percentage of several different metals and toxins that they found came up much more easily through the sweat. So saunas, BioMat, even if you get out in 80 degree, 90 degree weather and you’re running, you’re putting out a good sweat, that’s very helpful. Learn to do coffee enemas, learn to detox your liver, do liver cleanses, colon cleanses. So, give your body a break by really getting rid of the toxic buildup, because again, no matter how clean we try to live, we’re still exposed to it.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, and I think there’s this misconception that why do I need a coffee enema, why do I need… My body is resilient, my genes are designed for, and that’s where you need to cut somebody off that no, your genes are not designed for this current reality. Your genes are designed for something of tens of thousands of years ago, where it’s only the last 100 years where we had this literal chemical exposure that we have. So, the answer is that no, you are designed for a racetrack and you’re going offroading, and all of a sudden, it’s not gonna work out for you, right? So the third thing you say is, “Balance your energy.” And I personally need to ask you, what does that mean, and how do you do it?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

So we are 1 billion physical matter, the rest is all energy. And this was by Nobel Prize laureate who did the research, and that was its conclusion. We’re 1 billion physical matter, the rest is all energy. So, we are electrical energy through our nerve system. So chiropractic care is very important. The qi energy through the acupuncture meridian system, massage, grounding with the planet, we’re so removed from the electromagnetic frequencies from the big magnet that we live on, the earth, the planet earth, it’s important to get grounded and to get some of those frequencies into our body, either by grounding, literally, laying in the grass, walking on the beach, or using a PEMF mat, you know, a PEMF mat that will give you those frequencies. Balance your sleep, how many of us are getting very good, deep restorative sleep? Not enough, and balancing your hormones. Now, this is really key when it comes to breast cancer, because conventional medicine has really vilified women’s hormones. You have a hormone positive cancer, so we need to give you these drugs for the next 5 to 10 years to shut off your hormones, ’cause your hormones are causing cancer. But my position is, and science shows us, we need our hormones for our health, right?

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

If we shut those down, it’s going to affect our brain, our bones, our cardiovascular system, our immune system, and so it’s not to your hormones per se, maybe they’re outta balance, they need to be tweaked, but it’s the chemical estrogens that we’re exposed to, the environmental chemicals that are really driving those estrogens. And then secondly, as you know with the work that you do, that some people have a problem with metabolizing or methylating hormones and heavy metals. And so you need to find out if you have that problem. If you do, there’s great ways to support it, nutritionally and lifestyle wise, so that you can break down those hormones.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, that’s key where all of these systems and processes are usually multifactorial, it’s not just one switch that gets turn on or off. And if you don’t understand the full flow, it’s like flow charting any other process, you gotta find the weak link and maybe multiple week links, right? And you may be doing a really good job of detoxifying, if there’s no door at the end to throw every good thing out of, it’s just sitting there, right? So you gotta look at the whole process beginning and end, which is key. The next thing, it’s literally just a week ago, I had a discussion with somebody about your thoughts driving your health outcome, and you say something really cool here, number four is, “Heal your emotional wounds.” So, the layman would say, “What does that have to do with cancer?”

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Right, right. Well, from a pure scientific point of view, your thoughts affect your immune system, right? Psychoneuroimmunology, we know that our thoughts produce neurotransmitters that literally affects every single cell in our body. “You Are the Placebo”, Joe Dispenza, he’s really pioneered that work. We have all the chemistry we need in our brain and in our body to create changes, and it’s a matter of tapping into that belief system and really understanding that your body has the power to heal. Now, that takes us to, well, the emotional wounds. Some people don’t feel they deserve to heal, some people feel subconsciously they deserve to have cancer. They’ve perhaps have had some really bad childhood traumatic events and maybe their ACE scores are really high, perhaps they’re in a present situation where there’s very toxic relationships, perhaps they don’t really love themselves and they don’t know how to love others, they can’t forgive themselves, they can’t forgive others. So all these, what I call “emotional cancers” are brewing in your body, and until you clear those and you find peace with those, your body will not truly heal to the point that it can reach its potential.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, and if anybody, I mean sometimes people can be skeptical, but if anyone wants to hear the science it’s out there, I mean, there’s a great TED Talk about the research that was done on kids that were brought up in traumatic, abusive environments and how their disease rates were not 1 or 2X, they were 10X. Except for certain diseases, it’s literally 10X because of, if you don’t have the foundation, the terrain of this body is off, well then disease will flourish, right? ‘Cause you’re not resilient, you’re not fighting it. And you mentioned Joe Dispenza amazing work, one question that that leads me to is he talks about literally healing through your thoughts, ’cause if you can cause disease by your thoughts, then theoretically, you should be able to heal. How long does that take? Is that like some people… Gimme the pill, I just want a solution that’s like a bandaid, right? If you want to take this route working on your… Is it instant, does it take time, what does that look like?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

It’s a lifelong project. I mean, I was sexually abused by a convicted pedophile in the 1950s. He was our next door neighbor, and nobody talked about it, I didn’t know about it until I was in my late 40s. I grew up in an environment of alcoholism, so I understand those traumatic events that if they’re not healed, they’re going to, you’re walking around as a wounded child and you’re making decisions based on that wounded child, not on a happy, healthy adult. So it’s a process, and it’s like an onion, right? Peeling the layers, and it’s not that you have to do deep work for the rest of your life, but you wanna keep in touch with how are you doing emotionally, how are you handling your stress? This is one of the biggest lessons I learned in my second healing journey was that, I was that Type A personality, right? Nose to the grindstone, always that adrenaline rush, and I realized, first of all, that cancer cells love adrenaline, they have a lot of adrenaline receptor sites. And so if we can keep our body calm and go into that parasympathetic mode every single day, then it gives our body the chance to heal. You can’t heal your body if you feel like you’re being chased by a saber-tooth tiger, right? You’ve got to really bring it down, and it’s internal work, and there’s so many resources to work with now that it’s much easier than it was 20 years ago.

Kashif Khan

So first of all you said so far, the one thing that I can’t agree with is that you said that you were alive in the 1950s. That’s hard to believe that you were born at that time.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Oh yeah.

Kashif Khan

So anyways, kudos to you because you’re taking care of a lot more than just disease, you’re maintaining like optimal health ’cause I would’ve never guessed that.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Oh, thank you.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, number five is a really unique one, and kind of stands out as not your typical pillar of what you say is cancer, but you talk about embracing biological dentistry. Why is that so important?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

What the heck do my teeth have to do with cancer, right?

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Well, there’s many connections, and if we just look at gum disease, for example, postmenopausal women who have gum disease are twice as likely to develop cancer than those who don’t.

Kashif Khan

Wow.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

The metal fillings you have in your mouth are not silver, they’re 50% mercury, and mercury is one of the most toxic elements on the planet. And every time you chew, every time you drink, you’re releasing methylmercury vapors, which is by the way, a metalloestrogen, it mimics and stimulates estrogen in the body. So from the chemical point of view, and then you look at root canals, root canals are like having a dead organ in your body, no matter how clean or aseptic they try to make it, there’s always a pocket of anaerobic bacteria at the tip and it’s dripping toxins and weakening your immune system. So, look at the chemistry that’s going on in your mouth, and then look at it energetically because your teeth are connected to all your organs, through the acupuncture meridian system. And there are specific meridians for breast tissue on the top and on the bottom, and 99.9% of the time, if they’ve got some dental issues, it’s on that breast meridian, and that’s what happened to me, both sides on the bottom and on the top, the tumor was on the left side, cavitations, then I had a autoimmune disease, root resorption on the top one, in the second healing journey. So there’s always a correlation there, so make sure you work with the dentist to clean up your mouth, but make sure that they’re the real deal, not just a holistic one.

Kashif Khan

And this has become easier to find. So some people would argue, I don’t even know where to go, where do I start, but it was emerging a few years ago, but now it’s pretty common place. If you do the work to find any major city, you’ll find somebody that can do the work. And for sure, I mean the number one inflammatory disease is periodontal, is gum, right? So we know that a lot is already happening there, and if you’re saying these meridians are directly connected to the breast, then it’s obvious what’s going on there, and thank you for bringing it up. Number six makes me think of the Instagram generation and taking nice pictures, and turning this solution into a hobby.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Oh, yeah.

Kashif Khan

You see, yeah. You’re saying, “Repair with therapeutic plants.”

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Right, and herbs and supplements. Yeah, so there’s, I mean, there’s thousands of studies out there. Just go to the National Library of Medicine or pubmed.org, and put in vitamin C and breast cancer, selenium, magnesium, I mean, the list goes on and on. Nutritionally, we need to start there actually, as well as we try to eat our food is deficient, so I firmly believe that we have to supplement with those trace minerals, zinc, extremely important. Vitamin D, if your vitamin D levels are optimal, it’ll reduce your breast cancer risk by up to 83%.

Kashif Khan

Wow.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

So, something as simple as that. And then when you get into really targeting the cancer cells, again, so many substances that will literally kill the cancer, boost your immune system, but will not harm healthy cells. So everything from apricot kernels and apricot seeds, V17 to curcumin, which we know is one of the most studied plant therapies on the planet. I mean, anti-inflammatory turns on specific healthy genes, turns off cancer causing genes, anti-inflammatory, wormwood, products like Poly-MVA, Salicinium, I mean, there’s such a long list of therapeutics. One of the things that I’m very proud of is that in my book there’s over 700 published studies in the book that relate to therapeutic plants and herbs. And everything that I say is always backed up with science which is so important.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, that’s incredible ’cause the gap with a lot of, when you talk about natural holistic non-pharma solutions, there’s two layers, there’s a skepticism and lack of support from your clinician because they’re saying what’s not evidence based I can’t support that, but there’s also, how do you convince an individual that this is the right route? Whether you have your acute treatment or not, we’re not saying to stop, but also work on this, right? And the fact that you’ve put the effort together to pull 700 studies, that’s incredible, that helps people learn what’s real, what’s not. One last question for you before we move on to the next one, when I first pictured this, I literally thought this as being like plants, so literally curating plants in your home. And I was wondering, what are you gonna say about these plants? You got down to extracts or ingredients. So are there particular actual brands, or names, or products, or supplements you would recommend, or is this something where somebody’s gotta go find what’s best for them? What do you, what do you say there?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Well, there’s various protocols that in the 10 years in working with breast cancer specifically that we’ve seen what works best. And there’s also a test that you can do, it’s called the RGCC test, or that’s known as the Greece test, where you literally… So you take some blood, have it sent to Greece, they filter the blood and look for circulating tumor cells and stem cells, and then they’ll analyze 50 different natural extracts and see which ones are most effective against killing the cancer cells. They can also do the same with 50 chemotherapy agents. And so that’s a good way to really put a protocol together for you ’cause if you see that low dose naltrexone, melatonin, curcumin, agaricus mushrooms, those have high numbers for you, then it’s logical that you would want to gravitate towards those and use those, and you don’t wanna take them all the time, but you learn to pulse them, one week on, one week off, and so we help people create their program so that it’s most effective. And then you can retest to see, “Hey, I’m starting off with five circulating tumor cells per 7.5 MLs of blood, now my numbers are going down and I’m down to three.” Well, that means I’m making progress.

Kashif Khan

So not only is it highly precise, but it’s also personalized, which I didn’t even know was possible for cancer protocols, that’s amazing.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah, yeah. We’re seeing a lot more companies that are starting to do that sort of thing. More so in traditional oncology even, but some other companies are starting to use more natural substances, which is great to see.

Kashif Khan

That is awesome. So that kind of leads into number seven. We’re almost done with the list.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

You’re talking about testing, so early detection through thermography, specific blood tests. So there’s technologies that you’ve been curating, getting ahead of, studying, researching, embedding out what’s the best stuff that actually works. So first of all, amazing work you’re doing for everybody. So what are some of those things?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

All right, so when we think of adopting very early detection when it comes to women and breast tissue, what’s the first thing that comes to mind is mammography, right? The big push in the Pink Month in October, and I’m not telling anybody not to have a mammogram, I personally have never had one, but mammography to me is really dated technology. By the time something is seen on a mammogram, it’s been there for two to six years, eight years sometimes, dense breasts, now we’re seeing more and more women with dense breasts because of environmental issues and high sugar. So they’re not getting a clear enough picture, but if you choose mammography, always back it up with an ultrasound. There’s also thermography, like you mentioned, which looks at the infrared heat coming off your body. It’s not gonna diagnose cancer, but it’ll show you physiological changes if there’s hormonal imbalances, perhaps inflammation in the breast tissue. So again, back it up with an ultrasound. 

Breast exams, we’ve never really been taught to do a breast exam, but there’s a great tool up there, my breast friend, which is a model that teaches women how to do a better breast exam. And then there’s blood work. You can look for inflammatory markers, C reactive protein, homocysteine, LDH, ESR, if those inflammatory markers are elevated, something’s going on in your body. You may have been told that you are quote unquote cancer free because they don’t see anything in the scan, they don’t see anything in the blood, but you still have those circulating tumor cells and you may still have high inflammation. So you really have to be alert and keep a pulse on your health to make sure that nothing’s brewing and you don’t wake up surprised one day that, “Oh, I had breast cancer five years ago, now I’m finding out it’s in my liver and in my bones.” So, very important. There’s a test called the cancer profile that looks at the hormones that cancer cells give off. Nagalase testing, this is an enzyme that cancer cells give off to put your immune system to sleep. So, find out what’s happening, work with somebody who can really help you to put those tests together so you can monitor your health on a regular basis.

Kashif Khan

And all of what you said kind of goes back to how we started this conversation to begin with, which is the why, meaning that, okay, I’m cured, right? I’ve been treated medically, there’s nothing that’s measurable based on the measurements being sought, which may be, are limited in nature. But is cancer truly no longer a problem, or have you just kind of kicked the ladder out of its legs and it’s just rebuilding itself and fighting another fight, right? You may have won the battle not the war, in short, right? And that’s where these kinds of tools will help you find out if there’s more work to do on the why, the root cause of inflammation that’s gonna get you right back to where you started.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Absolutely, we tell the women in our community, it’s not just about getting rid of the lump or the bump, right?

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

It’s about a complete transformation, because how you’ve lived your life to this point has allowed cancer to show up. And so now you have an opportunity for change and you can cut it out, you can do all the conventional treatments, but if you don’t get to that root cause. that root cause is still going to be there. It’s no different than just cutting off a weed and leaving the roots in the ground, it’s gonna come back up.

Kashif Khan

So when it comes to testing, I mean, this is obviously something that we do, we look at genetics, we have very strong opinions on what we think is important and what’s not as important as people think. What do you think about the hype around BRCA gene testing?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Great question. Again, another one of those things where there’s so much fear. We know that there’s a famous actress who really put the BRCA gene on the map and I’m not judging her, I mean, she saw her mom die of horrible death with cancer and a lot of fear, a lot of misunderstanding. But, we know that genes can be turned off and on and less than 5% of breast cancers are actually familial. But even if you have a BRCA gene that’s positive, you can keep that mutation at bay, by your lifestyle, by the things that you do, all the things that we talked about today, it does not have to express itself. I mean, I have clients who are BRCA gene positive and are doing extremely well with their health. It does not have to be a death sentence.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, even the why… Forget about the why behind cancer, there’s the why behind the BRCA gene. When you ask a woman, “Do you want BRCA?” They say, “No, I don’t know you need BRCA.” BRCA is a repair tool, it goes and fixes, it’s a tumor suppressor. The belief, however, is that if I have this four letter word, it causes cancer.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

That’s the huge misconception which I know you’ve helped a lot of women understand better, but it’s like it’s not a cause, now that you’ve put yourself into a state where cancer is free to develop, you’re not gonna do such a good job of fighting it. But let’s not get into battle, let’s get you healthy to begin with. That’s what your approach is, which is awesome, and the way it should be. So there’s another thing you talk about, which again you call out as a myth that we hear so much, that plant-based estrogens are dangerous and should be avoided. Are you talking about things like the tofus and everything that else out there that everyone talks about?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah, the tofus, and the flax seeds, and I mean, let’s face it, green beans are phytoestrogens too when it comes down to it. So, they’re plant based and they are very protective. There was a study done years ago at the University of Toronto, where they looked at women who had breast cancer, they were getting ready to have surgery. They measured the tumor size, blood markers, all of that. For a month, they gave them a muffin filled with five teaspoons of ground flaxseed. And probably was made with white flour and sugar, but nonetheless there was ground flaxseed in it. 30 days later, the markers on average were reduced from 30 to 73%, and tumor size as well. So that in itself speaks quite largely for the benefits of flax and plant estrogens. Flax and many of the plant estrogens, fermented soy is extremely beneficial too, it’ll help balance out and get rid of some of those aggressive estrogens in the bloodstream. It’ll actually have a protective effect on the estrogen receptor sites in the breast tissue. So there’s no need to fear those plant estrogens because that’s not what’s driving the cancer, it’s more of the chemical environment that we’re we’re in.

Kashif Khan

That’s amazing, because that belief is very deep in a lot of people, strongly rooted belief in estrogens, men won’t eat estrogens because they think that they’re gonna get gynecomastia and grow man boobs, right?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Right, right.

Kashif Khan

And women won’t eat it because they think they’re gonna get breast cancer. So then when it comes to hormones, what should be people be worried about? If it’s not that, is there anything else that they should look out for?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Well, they wanna look to, first of all, I believe in really testing everything, don’t guess when it comes to your health test. So I’m a firm believer in saliva testing. Saliva’s going to show you what’s bio available rather than just blood testing. Blood testing tells you what’s in the blood, and it’s not very accurate, because once the hormones are filtered through the salivary glands, that’s what you’re seeing is most bio available. So you want to check for that, check to see if there’s something called the EQ ratio where there’s three estrogens and you want the estriol to be the more dominant and stronger one, because estriol is more protective. So you can check for that, you can check the progesterone, estrogen ratio, estrogen’s the accelerator, progesterone’s the break. And so you want those in balance as well. Check your testosterone, very protective against breast cancer. DHEA, it’s immunity hormone, longevity hormone. Cortisols, check your cortisols because if your cortisol is spiking, your adrenal glands need support. And so it’s really a balancing act. Same with your thyroid. Work with somebody who understands how to balance your thyroid, because women who are on synthetic thyroid medication are twice as likely to develop breast cancer, ’cause they’re covering the symptoms, they’re not getting to the cause, which is oftentimes iodine deficiency or an autoimmune issue.

Kashif Khan

Right, you said estriol is the protective, what are the problematic ones?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Well, estradiol would be the more aggressive one and then estron would be another one, yeah.

Kashif Khan

Okay, and what do you think about the claims around birth control pill usage and the coming wave of BHRT and hormonal replacement therapy, any association, any red flags?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Well, birth control, again, if you’ve been on birth control for any amount of time, your breast cancer risk really skyrockets, and I’ve seen that, I mean, they dish it out like candy, but it could be classified almost as a carcinogen in my mind because it can drive the cancer.

Kashif Khan

Right.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

And what was the other question you asked? Oh, the bio identical.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Bio identical. So synthetic hormone replacement therapy, I would stay away from, bioidentical, based on the studies that I’ve read and the research, I mean, they’re perfectly safe, but it’s not something you just guess at, work with somebody who’s qualified to help you balance those. Personally, I’ve been on bioidentical hormones for many years and still am doing great.

Kashif Khan

So, I would ask you then, everything we’ve been talking about up until now has been for the woman for whom we’re trying to work on prevention or reversal, like the cancer itself, right? Which has been incredible because if anyone goes and does all the things you’re saying, they’re gonna feel amazing, right? And there’s a woman for whom maybe she heard this a little too late and she’s now in treatment, so chemotherapy, radiation, all that stuff, what do you need to do to be either repaired or recover or be resilient knowing the treatment you have to go through?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

That’s a great question, I’m so glad you brought that up because we are presently looking to really expand our reach. Because we did some surveys and we found that up to 75% of the women who come to us, who want to heal breast cancer naturally, are actually working with an oncologist. But they’re afraid and they don’t know what to do, what’s safe, can I take vitamin C while I’m doing chemo? And so there are many, many things and we’ll be launching a program in the fall in October on surviving and thriving through conventional treatments, using evidence based natural medicine. And again, everything is evidence based, but doing something as simple as fasting for 48 hours before you get chemo will make the chemo more effective and you’ll have less symptoms. There’s many natural substances that will actually enhance the effect of chemotherapy, radiotherapy. There’s things that you can do before and after you have surgery to help prevent any cells that escaped during the surgery into the bloodstream to keep them from being sticky. So it help to prevent metastasis and potential spread. So there’s a lot of things that can be done to support these women and they really, really need it. And I’ve seen many of our clients go through that. They don’t lose their hair, their white blood cell count is good, their doctors are amazed at how well they’re doing, but they interestingly don’t ask why, they just say, “Whatever you’re doing, keep doing it,” right?

Kashif Khan

Yeah. 

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

You think they wanna know, but that’s not there.

Kashif Khan

It’s right in front of them, so should be able to adopt it and pass it on. But I understand that’s not the way that business works. And it’s not just here, it’s also how many women lose their fertility. It goes far beyond. There’s sort of the side effects that you don’t think about. You’re in this heel state, like you said, the saber-tooth tigers chasing you that’s all you’re thinking about right now. I gotta get cancer out and I’ll do whatever it takes. Not everyone is blessed enough to come across somebody like you and have access to that knowledge. But in that regard, how do people work with somebody like yourself? ‘Cause you’re outside of, obviously you’re not the oncologist treating them, right? So what does that look like, and do you get friction between you and an oncologist? How does that whole relationship work?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

No, we’re very careful to respect those boundaries. I mean, my team and I are basically coaches. We don’t make medical suggestions or recommendations, it’s always check with your doctor, check with your doctor, and make sure that they know that you’re doing this. I mean, women will come to us and will say, “This is my situation, I need help on the nutrition, I need help with this.” And we educate ’em on the “7 Essentials System” and say, “What you’re doing is good so far, but you need to have your mouth cleaned out, or you need to detox, or you need to work on the emotional wound.” So we really show them that it’s not just one thing that they have to do, but it’s a whole lifestyle change, and we help them to look at their blood work and understand it better because so many women come to us and their vitamin D is at 20 or 30 and their oncologist, “Oh, everything looks good.” So, we try to educate them, “No, you’ve gotta get that up between 80 and 100, to really have that therapeutic effect, and look at your blood sugar.” I mean, you walk into a chemotherapist what do you see? Cokes and candies and pastries. They’re not telling them that cancer is fueled by high carbohydrates and sugars. So, we kind of reeducate them and plant seeds, teach them, meditation alone can boost your immune system and help you recover a lot faster.

Kashif Khan

And so these women that you’re working with, is it that you’re going through your “Essential 7”, you’ve got this beautiful program, trying to find the one thing they need to focus on, because that’s their week point, the week link, or is it more like everybody needs everything?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

They need everything.

Kashif Khan

Okay.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

It’s kind of beginning to end, we gotta run through its audit, each area, figure out what you’re doing wrong., improve their habit?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah, yeah. Yep, they start off by filling out a 15 page questionnaire on each of these essentials so we know where they are, and then once we see, “Okay, well this is lacking, this is lacking. we need help here,” and so that’s how we coach them and support them.

Kashif Khan

It’s really cool what you put together. I’m just thinking how many women, or how many years did it take for you to get to like, “Here’s the thing, here’s the seven, here’s the sort of foundation.”

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Well, I mean, I’ve been in the wellness industry since 1979, so, this is 43 years.

Kashif Khan

Wow.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

So it’s taken me a while to put it all together but…

Kashif Khan

This is interesting, but that’s the year I was born.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Oh, really?

Kashif Khan

Yeah, so I was trying to figure out, what goes in my mouth and what doesn’t, you were saving women’s lives.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

That’s incredible. So if anyone wants to connect with you, to work with you, how does that work?

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Just find us on our website, breastcancerconqueror.com. And we’re on social media, Facebook. You can find my book on Amazon, lots of good reviews. It’s actually number one in oncology and in oncology nursing, which says a lot, so…

Kashif Khan

That’s amazing, and I can understand why, because you’re literally answering the number one question that isn’t getting answered.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

I have this problem, thank you for helping me as an emergency, but why didn’t it happen, what did I do wrong? And I don’t want to do it again, going through all this pain of two years of treatment and family disruption, relationship disruption, damage to the body, only to just go back to whatever it was that causes in the first place.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

Right, it’s crazy but that’s the reality of what’s going on out there because the why isn’t the gold, it’s like the masking. So, the work you’re doing is amazing and I commend you, thank you, and–

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Thank you. 

Kashif Khan

It’s beautiful that this is available now for women. Start with a book, anyone that’s listening that thinks whether it’s yourself, or a family member, or a friend, whether an aunt, or a cousin, or somebody in the family, and I’m sure anyone you talk to can say that, “Yeah, there’s been a woman in my family that has been touched by breast cancer.” So prevalent now, and it’s been amazing you put the book together, but it’s even more amazing that you’re available to work with. So people can reach out to you, connect with you and your team, and get help. So, thank you for joining us, this was awesome.

Dr. Veronique Desaulniers

Thank you so much for having me, Kashif. It’s been a lot of fun and a pleasure.

Kashif Khan

All right, thanks.