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Primal Healing Using Natural Sunlight – Full Spectrum Infrared

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  • Robby shares the 4 primal elements for natural healing, unpacked, specifically as it relates to harnessing full spectrum infrared sunlight.
Chronic Illness
Christine Schaffner, N.D.

Welcome, everyone to the Healing from Lyme and Chronic Illness Summit. I’m Dr. Christine Schaffner. And today I have the privilege and honor to interview our host, our co-host Robby Besner. Welcome, Robby. It’s really exciting for me to get to interview you today.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

It’s really great to be here, and it’s also nice to be on the other side of the microphone, because as you know, both of us have been so busy interviewing, getting the content out for the Summit, and I’m so proud and privileged and honored to touch some of the greatest minds in healthcare and particularly the messages that they’re bringing to the Lyme community through the platform. So, thank you for having me and thank you for taking your time out to allow me to share some of the things that knowledge that, you know, we’ve accumulated over the years.


Christine Schaffner, N.D.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, really in have enjoyed getting to know you and meeting you, and I was so honored that you invited me into your Summit to co-host. And I think that, again, you’ve just brought such an amazing group of people together, ’cause I know our shared passion is to, you know, get people better, faster, right? And get this information out to more people. And I know that your story has really inspired you on this journey and I thought it would be a great opportunity for you to share the story of your daughter and what led you to, you know, create the Summit.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Okay, well it goes back about 30 years and you know, 30 years ago, Lyme was a whole different story than today. And in some ways when I was going through my interviews, I was like, even yesterday I did an interview and I was thinking, boy, I’m feeling a little sad because if I only knew the information, now that, back then maybe the circumstances would be different, you know? So, that kind of had a little bittersweet to it. But Julia, in her early teens, she was diagnosed with endometriosis and we went to a surgical center to have it worked on and the recovery was supposed to be like, maybe 30 to 60 days, something like that. 

And then she would basically be pain free, and she didn’t recover that way. And then when we dove a little deeper to the surgical center, they said, well, 99% of the women that have this procedure, they recover. And the, sorry, the ones that don’t recover have Lyme Disease. Have you ever had your daughter tested? Lyme wasn’t even in our radar, we were living in south Florida. We weren’t around the tri-state area of Lyme, Connecticut and New York, Jersey, and all that. And so, we then had our test and of course she clinically tested positive for Western and two different strains of Lyme at that point. 

And so again, you know, dialing it back, there weren’t that many Lyme tests that were reliable. IGeneX was the gold standard at that point. And we just sought out and found the top Lyme doctor in the business, so to speak, which was Joseph Burrascano, whose practice was actually closed then. So, we found that this, I wanna say the second best, but he’s clearly, like they’re rivals. It was Dr Steven Bock and that’s who we started with with Julia, and then when Burrascano had a space for Julia, then we were able to negotiate over and she was under the care of what I thought were the best available doctors at the time. 

And still probably the greatest Lyme practitioners, you know, around. So, yeah, we started doing the treatment and it was a little bit harder for us ’cause we were living down in Florida and all of those doctors were up in New York, so we’d have to travel up and we had to have another doctor here to be like, they were the quarterbacks and these guys were the local doctors and they would communicate, and after whatever, a year or two Julie already was in the chronic stage. And she then had a neurologist, a pain doctor, two Lyme-literate doctors. 

I mean, it was a team and none of them talked to each other. And so, that was a little bit tough and maybe some people tuning in today could appreciate that because you really need to have it centralized with a practitioner and then have that information feed coming in if you have multiple doctors or healthcare providers that are helping you. And so, we took a pretty straight alopathic approach for about the first eight years. And then, you know, she had a rollercoaster experience, you know, did really well, was stable and then she was in remission and then she had another episode and back and forth. And one of the things that we didn’t expect, but we experienced was that even though it, whenever you drew the line, she basically was kind of just a little bit better, or a little bit worse, but emotionally, she kept on making new lows. 

It was really hard to have her interview or talk to another doctor because of that sort of rollercoaster type thing. And so, anybody else that’s tuning in today might be able to appreciate that, but you have to be unwavering. You really have to have the fortitude to understand and visualize yourself as getting better in order for you to kind of get through all that noise. I call it. So, what happened for us was once we found and she was under the care of Dr. Burrascano, and of course, you know, Dr. Bock, I then started to realize and things shifted that, you know, they were out-of-town doctors. And so, we saw them once every six weeks and then we’d be in communication, but really 99% of the healthcare that we were managing was on us. And I had a, you know, pre-med background. 

So, I was able to be her nurse per se. And so we didn’t, we were able to keep that in, and in blessing and curse, you know, we always talk about that, like a biblical sense. It was certainly a curse in some ways that she contracted Lyme Disease, but the blessing was that I bonded with her and had more of her as a parent than, because of her health challenge than many parents have with their kids, you know, their whole lives. And so we had a lot of that stuff and it was super cool. So, so anyway, what happened was that I realized that I looked at her symptoms and she was expressing neurological challenges. She had what’s called Lyme encephalitis. And some of the Lyme had to migrated into her brain. 

And even though on the scans, she had no lesions, she still experienced neurological challenges. She also had body pain and she had what I thought or, you know, as I summarized it as high levels of toxicity and systemic inflammation And so, I kind of unpacked that. I somehow focused on toxicity. I then did a research as to what were the most modern and efficient ways to detoxify. And then I discovered that there’s actually frequencies of sunlight, the infrared spectrum that will mobilize those wave lengths will mobilize all the toxins in your body. And I said, wow, now I found it, like the Holy Grail. 

But, when I looked at what was available for the average individual, like the public to buy in the infrared space, really, it was only being used by sports in the medical area. It was only being used by sports medical doctors to help players lower their pain thresholds and basically were, you know, repair quicker their bodies so they get back on the field quicker. It really wasn’t used by mainstream medicine by any means. Didn’t really understand why. But what I decided to do was organize a trip. I went to China, I visited more than 65 factories over two and a half months and decided I was gonna make some infrared devices for our own personal use. So, lo and behold, I found of all those factories, I found one or two and I started and I started developing some devices. And then I brought them to Julia. She started using them. She started getting some pretty good results. Her doctors and Lyme-literate doctors had saw that. And they basically reached out to Melody, my wife and I and said, hey, could you make these for us? You know, we’ve got, our practice is a 100% Lyme. And we think that our patients would, it would serve them. And so, that was really the genesis of our company Therasage was built around, basically two premises, building infrared devices and advancing that body of work. 

And hopefully, through that journey, meeting Lyme-literate doctors, other doctors in different walks of life, different countries, even, I didn’t care, that would give me a clue as to how we could help Julia manage her healthcare. So, you know, the family unit is super, super important to help the Lyme patient. They’re not alone with their health challenge, but certainly, you know, you feel very alone and very isolated, you know, and emotionally that can affect you. But it set us off on this trajectory of a journey that today, I mean, I’m so blessed that I can advance the equipment and the devices that we’re making. And then we’ve created a whole host of protocols. 

So, we feel as a company, it’s not just enough to make a good device. There are a lot of great devices out there, but how does someone buy the device and how do they actually utilize it so they actually get an optimal result? So, we look at it three ways. We have to make a great device, we have to deliver it, you know, on time, and we have to personally integrate with every practitioner and, or every patient to make sure that they’re using the device to their maximum benefit. And that’s sort of the basis of behind Therasage and what inspired us and even where we are today.


Christine Schaffner, N.D.

Yeah, well, no, thank you so much for sharing your story. And, you know, as here we are in 2022 recording this, and when you think about the decades, you know, prior to, you know, to the many patients who have gone through the Lyme journey, you know, some of the things that you’re saying are more commonplace now, but when you think about it, you know, decades ago you were, you know, thank goodness at the cutting edge in bringing this information forth. And so, you know, here we are, there is more awareness around Lyme Disease. I absolutely think that thanks to companies like yours and the educational events that are, you know, now a little bit more commonplace online and, you know, blessings that unfortunately celebrities are getting Lyme, but that helps increase awareness. 

So there’s a lot more conversation, but there’s still, I think, opportunity for a healing journey to be smoother, you know, for patients. And, you know, I know that a lot of alternative practitioners and naturopathic doctors are really understanding the role of detoxification in recovery to anyone’s health, but it’s still, I wouldn’t say widely accepted when you think about one treatment. You Google it, you don’t get an infrared sauna, right, you know, coming up first, right. You think of like antibiotics and, you know, antimicrobials and the pathophysiology. And so, I would love, you know, for you, Robby to share, you know, what you feel is really important. I think just, well, we’ll get into the details, but just that overarching equation that you’ve learned over the years with guiding so many patients and practitioners and physicians through Lyme treatment, like, you know, how do we set patients up to heal in a smoother way?


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Okay, well, I think it’s in a few words, it’s sort of getting back to basics. I call it like primal healing. So, you gotta cover those bases. Good water, good air, you know, good food, and sunlight. I mean, it sounds so simple. And I think in today’s world, things get complicated really quickly. Also Western medicine, the traditional approach, they like to sort of compartmentalize the body and say, okay, you got Lyme in your shoulder. So, let’s just work with your shoulder. And I believe that it’s, your body is whole, you know, mind, body, soul. And it is integrated. You’ve got, you know, a dozen or more different major systems that communicate to with one another. And so, maybe you’re feeling the pain in your shoulder, but it’s somehow connected to the rest of your body. And if that’s, your shoulder is expressing that symptom, then you know, it might be like a offshoot or like kind of referral pain or referral challenge that’s coming from a much bigger challenge that could be an imbalance in your gut, or, you know, there’s a lot of different angles and that makes it interesting. 

It also makes it complex, but I like working with the whole individual, not just the part. So, and so I think that that’s important for people to know. We’ve focused on sunlight and the area of sunlight has been the infrared spectrum, as you mentioned a little earlier, and there are three wave lengths of the spectrum. And so, a lot of people listening today, you know, that even Google infrared, infrared sauna, they’re gonna kind of get range, like the nearer frequencies versus the far. 

Everybody says they’re better. My approach has been a few. One, I’ve researched ancient cultures. And so I like to look at the way that history, the history of the world, how these different cultures, religions, customs, and from a health perspective, what have they done to integrate into their lives that actually have created a really great healthy platform? The other thing I like to look at is nature. How does the body respond to nature? How do we, we’re a part of it, you know, so there are organisms inside of us and there’s ones outside, and then we are like the master organism, you know, that have all these things going on in a play. 

And how does that work exactly. And how does that correspond with the elements? So, first we have the challenge with our environment these days and how that affects our genetics. And so, what we’re seeing is the epigenetics or the proclivities like we have, you know, dominant and recessive genetics in our body. And something, I always reflect on my grandmother because it’s not very, it’s not natural for your child to pass away before you do. And so when my grandmother saw her kids passing away before she passed away, that really had an impact on me at a very young age. And so, I think that that is, you know, decades of all of this stuff moving forward. And, then, you know, there’s some great works like Dr. Zach Bush talks about these trends and that we’re on a extinction trajectory because he’s seeing in clinic that, you know, women 14, 15 are showing signs of sterility, and men 18 and younger have low testosterone levels. That’s not a genetic proclivity, that’s our environment and how it affects the genes inside of us. And so, back to primal healing, you know, if you could get filtered water and if you could eat food that is, you know, not genetically modified and hopefully organic, then you’re really getting closer to nature. And if we could reset our bio clocks so that we’re on, you know, like an alarm clock, something as simple as that, we invented that, we invented time. If you go back to the days of Jesus, Moses, and Buddha, you woke up to the sun.


Christine Schaffner, N.D.



Robby Besner PSc.D.

Right? There weren’t alarm clocks. You didn’t sleep in. There was none of that. You know, like it was just, you were part of nature and we’re very far departed from that. So in good ways, we’re driving electric cars now. In bad ways, it’s showing up in the very steep trends of all these chronic ailments out there. And they’re not coming down with all the millions and billions of dollars we’re pouring into research. They’re not coming down because the environment still getting worse as even while we’re speaking. I keep coming back to toxicity because I feel very strongly that everybody listening, every Lyme patient out there, the reason why they feel bad is because they’re toxic and their toxicity and inflammation travel kind of on the same highway. 

And so, if I can do something to, anything to lower your toxic burden and load, then I’ll lower inflammation. And then, the Lyme patient has part of their life back. They actually start to feel a little better. What does that do? It gives the Lyme patient a little bit more hope, right? That there’s more light at the end of the tunnel. It also gives their practitioner and, or their team of practitioners more time to get at the root cause. Trying to figure out that little puzzle of why it’s affecting their bodies in the way that it is. And so, toxicity turned out to be a big topic for me. And again, we found that infrared frequencies were the sort of the cornerstone in my mind from the other ways that you can detox and heal those poisons out, it’s a natural way to do it. 

And then, I looked at the research and I said, okay, the playbook from nature is that infrared frequencies come to the earth from the sun in an array that’s called full spectrum. There’s the near, mid and far. And when people Google, they’ll see a range between near and far. Mid is sort of a little bit of this and a little bit of that. So, there’s nothing, All those frequencies mean something, but the mid is sort of like in the middle in terms of the attributes or the benefits, but when you Google, when people actually look at it, they’re gonna see that the difference and it gets confusing. And to make it even more complicated, if you’re a Lyme patient and you are desperate, you’re not thinking straight anyway, right? And now you get into the internet thinking that you’re gonna find the answer and you get more questions from it. And so, what we’ve done as a company is we sort of took a page out of playbook from nature and basically created a body of work and devices that are full spectrum. So, they’re actually doing just what nature does. Except, there’s always that, right? It’s funny because we always make plans. And then I say, life gets in the way. 

And so, I had this grand plan, I went and I downloaded NASA’s data and I analyzed and took the first and second standard deviation of all these frequencies that hit the earth on a yearly basis. And that was my cocktail for our first Thera360, we called that, the sauna, the portable sauna. And then, I had been teaching for close to 15 years at Hippocrates Health Institute here in south Florida. And, I have a very particular venue I like, and in the back of the room, there’s this huge wall mural of Hippocrates. And so everybody knows, Hippocrates says, food is your medicine. And it was starting to bother me like I was teaching there 15 years, and so after a while, I said, you know, the food of today is not the food of Hippocrates’ day. 

When you can go to a gas station and buy a Twinkie that has a, and by the way, I’ve nothing against Twinkies, if you happen to like it or anybody listening likes them, if they still make them. But yeah, if you can buy a food source that has a shelf lives of 500 years, and you look at the ingredients, all those chemicals and so forth, you know, preservatives. Then you have to kind of think through that a little bit. It might keep the food fresh, but then what is it doing, those chemicals entering to your body? And it’s not just that it’s one Twinkie. If all it was was one Twinkie, we probably wouldn’t even be having this conversation. But you have, you know, electromagnetic fields from Bluetooth and wireless devices, you’ve got food challenges, you’ve got chem trails, and all these things that are happening. You’ve got water that’s got fluorides and chlorines in it, and all those things add up. And so, back to detoxing. 

So, when I started to, it started bother me about this mural of Hippocrates. And I said, you know, our environment isn’t the same. It’s not just our food. Our environment is very different from those days too. So, then I went back into my research and I saw in clinic, we had many kids that are now showing signs of health challenges, chronic challenges at very early ages. And I thought, you know, we need to change things. So, I also saw that people were expressing problems with oxidative stress and also mitochondrial challenges at young ages. And so, when I looked at the cocktail, that nature delivers to us, and I look at what these different frequencies do, I changed my formula and I actually developed a very unique application that we’re calling the Tri-Light System, and I created a LED or a light emitting diode, a light bulb that generates three very specialized frequencies. One red that you can see and two invisible near frequencies. And, I slapped them on the inside of the sauna. And so now you’re bathing in full spectrum, but you have an extra added value of more of the near frequencies to the cocktail that nature delivers because that’s the cocktail that’s appropriate for today’s world. And that supports mitochondria. It supports the natural production of what’s called nitric oxide, which is one of the three transient gases that the body makes. And it’s responsible for vasodilation, increasing blood flow. And it also triggers your blood to grab more oxygen when you make it available. So that created another whole world for me, because then I started thinking, well, what else can we do? Christine, if I had you in my portable sauna for a half hour, what other hacks, what other stacks could I bring into that session, that healing session that really is gonna knock the leather off the ball. 

So we brought in aromatherapy, we brought it in ozone treatment into the sauna, guided meditation, imagine that. We just added reflexology. So when you’re in there, you rub your feet on this little device and it opens up all your energy meridians on your feet, which mimic the meridians on your body. So, it’s really been quite a journey or a joy for us to continue to move forward in what I consider raising the bar in the way that we’re approaching, you know, at least infrared sauna, and bringing that to the general public. We do it in a portable, affordable manner so that we feel it can be in everyone’s home. And I’m not being trite when I say that, I think that everyone should have one because we need it just to whether you’re sick or not, whether you have Lyme or not, you need it just to maintain your health forever, you know?


Christine Schaffner, N.D.

Yeah, well, I love everything you shared, Robby, and I’m very inspired by many parts of your conversation. And I’m in complete agreement. You know, when we think about modern life and our exposures and the toxicity, I think Dr. Pizzorno is a name. He often says like one put one doesn’t equal two anymore, or maybe it never did. You know, when we talk about toxicity and a lot of this is one grand experiment. And I think that we were talking before we got on about terrain theory and how we both are very much ascribed to that view of how our physiology works in that we, you know, we can look and we can demonize like Lyme and co-infections in every, herpes virus and every parasite and every microtoxin and, you know, while they, of course can be very destructive to one’s health. It’s, you know, if that was all that we were looking at, you know, that I think would be a very different story. 

I mean, I feel like we’ve evolved with many of these things over time, but our terrain has become increasingly toxic. And you even mentioned even the transferal kind of emotional impact over epigenetics, and then also this, you know, huge onslaught from, you know, day one, or even before day one of birth, you know? And so, no, I agree with you that, you know, not only are Lyme patients and our chronically ill patients, but really every person on the planet needs to ascribe to a lifestyle of detoxification. And you see that we both back to your own families when really families embrace this information and knowledge and support their loved one going through this, they can have a positive ripple effect, you know, on the family that they start taking care of themselves and being proactive. 

And so I’m in very much agreement and I love, you know, what you’re saying, and, you know, I’m an naturopath. So, I look to nature a lot and, you know, we have our mutual friend, Dr. Gerald Pollack on the Summit, and he blew our minds right when he really kinda shared like this whole other layer of our physiology around exclusions of water, right. And so, as I learned about that over the years and learned about a lot of these detoxification tools, you know, I think that’s like this whole other benefit, right, that we’re getting, you know, when we especially use the infrared spectrum of frequencies. And so, can you just maybe tie in your knowledge or what you know about exclusions on water and how your, you know, how your technology is potentially improving that in our physical bodies?


Robby Besner PSc.D.

First off, I was so honored that he joined the Summit in his work, thanks to you. And I had an opportunity, my wife and I, both Melody had, and I had an opportunity to meet with Dr. Pollack or Jerry as, he gets so quaint, you know. Once actually at Hippocrates, he was here and we had a private audience with him. It was so super cool. He blew me away. I’m always searching for the micro-reason why our technology works clinically. 

I know it works, but why and how, and how many systems does it affect? And he was an icon. He is an icon, but he really hit the nail on the head when he, probably eight years ago now, when he came out with the book, The Fourth Phase of Water, and he was reporting, he was actually, he published it. And he, the first come out was at the WHO in London. And then I bought the book right away and I’m reading it. And I’m, and this is my pleasure reading is reading those kinds of books, which kind of puts me in the nerd category really quick. So, I’m getting like about like maybe a third of the way in, and it gets into this whole thing about how light frequencies affect the structure of water and the order of water and why that’s so important. And I, prior to that, I was tracking Masaru Emoto his work and about structured water. I thought that was really fascinating, how emotions and words and prayers and all that can affect actual structure of water. 

And he proved it just by freezing the water and looking under a high-powered microscope. And I thought that that was totally fascinating. And so Dr. Pollack took Emoto’s work and actually dialed it up even more. And then, then I got like crazy, I’m going, this is one of the reasons. And when you get in our sauna, we’re generating those frequencies. And what is that doing? It’s structuring the water inside of you and what’s that doing? It’s allowing your cells to function and methylate on a primal level. And so, I believe strongly that we get sick on a cell level and we heal on a cell level. 

And so that cell is not functioning, you know, for whatever reason, then, you know, how do you expect to get better? Because that affects the cells around it and so forth and so on. And then water is a big part of it, because if you drink a fair amount of water, you’re probably 72% hydrated. Your brain is 81% water. Your cell is 98% water. And so, if you don’t have good structured water, filtered water in your body, you’re already behind the eight ball. And then, there’s this physiological term called protein folding. And proteins are building blocks, most people know that of health and tissues and so forth. And a protein can’t form in a healthy manner. 

And what it does is that these actually strands of, trillions of strands, they form around a structured water molecule, a single water molecule in the body. So, the building block of protein, which is the building blocks of our body is about around structured water, which can’t happen unless you have infrared frequencies, restructuring the water inside of you. I think, I thought that was just a blockbuster bit of information. And so, I follow his work. I of course, had a chance to meet him and I think that what he’s doing is marvelous. And he really does explain how basically, there’s a body electric part. 

We all know that there’s frequencies in our body. They drive our neurological system. So in nerve ending, there’s a little synapse, little gap, and then this little spark moves across the gap. And that’s basically how information comes from our brain down through our spine, out to all the various muscles and organs for us to function. There’s this whole other area about the, you know, the EZ water or the Easy Zone and how that same electric current basically separates the water out a little bit and allows the passage of, you know, proper mineralizing into the cell and the cell be able to get nutrients and minerals in, and basically nutrition and also for the cell to export waste products. So, absent structured water, absent infrared frequencies, you don’t have any of that going on.


Christine Schaffner, N.D.

Yeah, no, that’s brilliant explanation. And, you know, I think modern life, right? There’s so many assaults to the structured water in our bodies, right. And so I think, you know, right, it’s this whole other layer that why your technology, you know, works. And I, the more I learn about this, and I asked during this a few times, I’m like, you know, I think health is, you know, how much structured water you have in your body. And, you know, a lot of our patients because of some of the pathophysiology, especially around low antidiuretic hormone, I mean, they’re chronically thirsty, they’re dehydrated. 

They’re not holding onto charge, you know, in their cells. And so, this I think is a brilliant way, you know, to help increase exclusions on water and all the other of course, brilliant things you’ve shared about what the technology does. And one thing not to, you know, Jerry will share this in his talk, but when I got to interview him, you mentioned ElectroSmog, right? And ElectroSmog and how that can affect our physiology. And he can share, please listen to his interview, but how the wifi router can disrupt our exclusions of water in our body. And so, like another modern insult. So more reason to spend time in your sauna, Robby.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

I actually, I love the way you put that, a modern insult ’cause people don’t, they’re not focusing on that. And unfortunately in the world that we live in today, we are depending the peeps, depending on agencies to protect us like the FDA or the FCC, which is the Communication Committee, or the FTC, the Trade Commission. So, all these bodily administrative functions were designed to release psychology to the people as they’re there to protect us. 

But if you look at, let’s say the FTC and the FCC, those are the groups that actually opine and render what frequencies are allowable in, you know, in the airwaves. There’s no health-minded people that sit on those committees. And so, it’s very much driven by economics. The cell towers we have out there that used to house 3 and 4G now are being posted with 5G and general understanding is they haven’t even flipped a switch on 5G completely in terms of integrating the network. Those same towers, same cell towers, they house 7G and 10G that our government and our military using. And so, we think that it’s just what they post on TV or in the news, but there’s a lot more things going on there. And it does affect our body because as you just said, it’s really sensitive, our body’s super sensitive in terms of the frequencies, in order for our cells to be healthy. And whenever you bring your body, your body field that has its own little frequency to it, right, in the sixties, it was called an aura. And now it’s called a biofield, right? So, when you bring your biofield, your body into a hotspot, let’s say you’ve just gone to buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks, let’s say, now you’ve got this wireless network. 

You don’t know what it’s dialed up to, your body is hovering at this frequency. The internets are at that frequency. And what happens to the body is it actually gets drawn up to the higher frequency. It’s pulled up. Our body frequency start to get distorted. And when that happens, what happens? We’re not getting that cell communication anymore. And so, that allows our immune systems to be compromised somewhat, and really gives the Lyme or the pathogen, or creates a really nice setting for an imbalance to occur in your internal environment, that terrain. So, when I look at all of these things, I go back to the primal stuff. What can we do to bring our terrain back into order? And so, what can I offer you, the Lyme patient that will keep your body healthy, but not make it so friendly for the bugs inside of you to rebalance you in a way. And I think that the sunlight is one, you know, being grounded is another one. And so, the cheapest way to help yourself from EMF exposure is to kick your shoes off and walk in the sand or hug an oak tree. 

Anything that’s grounded into the earth is gonna bring that negative charge of the earth into your body and kind of give you a little bit of a reset in terms of your body frequency. The one that gets outta whack. So, we’ve actually employed different kinds of technology in our format, in our delivery system that will remediate EMF and Extreme Low Frequencies, ELF. But the one that I like the most is one of the newest inventions of ours, which is what’s called harmonizing. And so we shield and we block, that’s what’s traditional, but the harmonizing really speaks to your body field in keeping the integrity of your own shield in place. 

So whenever I say that, I’m always thinking about Captain America, you know, walking around with this big shield and deflecting this and that, but that’s actually what it is, in a way. And the problem with all this, I think, Christine is that you can’t see EMF, you can’t smell it, you can’t hear it. You know, you can’t taste it. Some people that, like the Lyme people that are tuning in, they actually do feel it. You know, when you become hypersensitive to chemicals, you also become often hypersensitive to electromagnetic fields or smog ESmog, like you mentioned. And so, knowing that, and you know, there’s been blood studies where they actually have isolated people in urban and rural areas. And they’ve seen that the activity of the microorganisms, the parasites are greatly increased that activity in the, what you can actually measure the neurotoxins or the microtoxins that mold and some of these organisms give off. 

And so, when you go to the same area and you measure the blood of an urban dweller and a rural dweller, they’re both, they’re all eating the same food, drinking the same water, basically breathing the same air. The biggest difference is the cell tower concentrations in the cities are much greater. So, when you can measurably and it’s something like 90 to a 100 times more microtoxins in the bodies of the, or the people that are live in the cities, the other only influence out is the effect of these microtowers and all these electromagnetic fields, the exogenous fields. And I believe, that they energize the bugs. So, I don’t go along with you. I don’t demonize the microorganisms. I think that they all lived in harmony for, you know, centuries in our bodies, right? Thousands of years. And so, really we’re talking about the imbalance. And so, if we can bring you back to homeostasis or balance by changing your chemistry so it’s friendly for your body, but not so friendly for the bugs. So, then we talk about what’s not friendly for the bugs. 

Well, they like sugar diets. So, that’s usually the hardest one. So, if you can somehow manage your diet so that what I like is keto or the paleo kind of diets that, you know, are not concentrated on carbohydrates or foods that turn into sugar. It isn’t just the candy bars. Foods that, glycemic foods that turn into sugars. And the bugs don’t like oxygen, they’re generally anaerobic. So, if we can do anything to bring more oxygen into your blood or raise your blood oxygenation level, that’s gonna be favorable. And they don’t like heat. So if I can raise your core with, that’s what sauna does, it creates sort of what we call a false fever. Then I know we’re creating an unhealthy environment for the bugs and one that’s gonna be really great for you to thrive as a total organism. So, right, does that make sense to you?


Christine Schaffner, N.D.

Oh, yeah, oh yeah. That was, yeah, really well put and no, I think the, you know, when, as you’re talking, it’s like this weird paradox, right? The, even though we, you know, this knowledge is still, you know, very much new in the ways of how ElectroSmog is affecting us. I feel like on the flip side that that language can help people to understand that, you know, that our bodies work with electromagnetic energy. Like that we almost have our own wifi technology. You know, I think even Beverly Rubik who’s on the Summit calls, you know, the biofield our own mother nature’s wifi, you know? 

So, like we’re in this tipping point, I feel because of all of these factors that we can acknowledge that we’re, you know, these biophysical beings with this electromagnetic energy, when we’re working with frequency like that, that really is this whole other, you know, whole other realm of healing that can really help accelerate a Lyme patient’s healing journey. ‘Cause I think, you know, what we see, right, that it takes time and you know, that I’m into Joe Pizzornoto and he has the saying that I just sit with and I try to really hold, you know, for our patients that when we use matter to matter, it takes time, right? You know, the functional medicine, tinkering with the biochemistry, the antibiotics, you know, all very well, you know, purposed and can help a lot of people. 

But, you know, you were just saying your daughter, eight years in, or, you know, 10 years in, or even we hear these like, you know, way too long of a journey, but he talks about when you change the field, you change matter. And that’s where I feel like using technologies like yours, having an understanding of this way that our environment works and that our physical bodies work. This is the opportunity I feel like for the Lyme community that we can amplify and accelerate healing that we all want for all of our patients. So I, yeah, as you talk, I’m just, you know, I continue to sit with that intention and that desire and in my own heart, you know, during my hopefully lifetime and practice that we see more and more of this, not be like kind of an esoteric or side note, but it’s like at the forefront, you know, of the conversation. So, Robby, I guess you’ve walked us through so much information and really given everyone who’s listening a lot to think about, is there anything else left on your heart or your mind that you wanna share with the audience today?


Robby Besner PSc.D.

I guess the biggest thing for me is just the concept of having hope and the will to live and to know in your heart of hearts, that you’re gonna be okay. It doesn’t feel that way when you’re flat on your back, you know, having a HERX reaction or some sort, you know, or the rollercoaster, like we described a little earlier. but we’re so far along and there’s so many bright minds out there and there are so many great, great things being done in research in the area of Lyme now that it’s truly inspirational. And if I learned anything from the Summit, working with you and some of the other doctors, the speakers that came on, it’s just that. 

Like there, we’ve had, I think high, more than 60 speakers, close to 70 speakers over the Summit. And each of them in their own unique ways talk about their own journeys, how they, many of them were sick themselves and that’s how they got onto their passion and their bodies of work. And when you hear these stories and you hear, you know, how it manifested into where they are today, its just remarkable. I’m actually getting little shivers as I’m talking about it right now. And I just want everyone to know that, you know, I’m so grateful to have you and you know, be part of and bring your energy and your love to this platform. And, I think that people need to understand like, you can’t, you have to have the vision, you just have to know in your heart of hearts really deep down that it’s gonna work out no matter how bad you feel. And don’t take no for an answer, you’re gonna learn from the Summit that there are the right doctors to choose and the wrong doctors to choose and why. 

And don’t be a victim about it. Like, just stand up, face your fear in some way about that part. Like, you don’t have the money or you don’t have wherewithal to do it. That is just a rock to crawl under that there is truly a lot of great information. This, what we’re doing together with this platform is bringing a lot of it out there and it’s free for you to access, take advantage of it, and understand that there’s a lot of really great, there’s a future. And your destiny isn’t to be flat on your back HERXing, your destiny, it has a lot more to be about your bliss and your purpose and I think together, you and I, we have sort of the same approach that, you know, having a chronic ailment robs you of that. 

Your birthright is to be on your feet and to find out whatever your passion is and to live that to your last breath. and the fact that we’re living in a toxic world and that, you know, there’s systems and networks in healthcare now that don’t make it so easy for you to get back on your feet is troublesome. But if you open your mind a little bit and you just ask around, there’s brilliant chat rooms you can go on, everybody’s pretty vocal about the things that are working and the things that aren’t, and just follow that path, get on a train that’s working for you, listen to the inner doctor inside of you. It’s better than any than you and I, as great as a doctor is that you are, that voice inside of you is really, knows you better than anyone. And that’s connected to your source and your guidance, not religious, it’s about spirituality. And so, I am blessed and I feel very fortunate to be here today, to have a chance to share some of the things that I think that might make a difference in people’s attitudes and not to give up.


Christine Schaffner, N.D.

I love that. Very well said. And you know, again, our mutual and intention is that of hope and healing and inspiration. And I can’t thank you enough for the invitation to be part of this amazing event. And that your contribution today, I learned a lot from you as well. And Robby, I know that this will be really available within the platform, but if people wanna connect with you or your company, can you just share a website on that would be easy to find you on?


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Yeah, that’s Therasage, spelled T-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E.com. We have an 800 number. So, if people wanted to dial in, it’s 888 416-4441. And then we have a Facebook presence and an Instagram presence. I absolutely love Instagram. You know, as a device developer, Christine, you get really heady, like I’m in the lab and I’m just like, you know, I can’t really hear or see anything else. And oftentimes I’m stuck in that lab for three days without eating or sleeping, I just get so driven. 

When I go on my Instagram site and I see the joy that people have in showing everybody what their, you know, how they’re applying our devices and how much fun they are. They put their dogs in there. Their kids are in the sauna and their heads are poking out. And that really floats my boat because I feel like it’s, again, we’re trying to shift people’s consciousness, not just their health. When I, when we developed a sauna, Christine, it, you know, clearly we had a purpose in mind, but when I share my wisdom about it today, it isn’t about, that sauna doesn’t your illness. And, a way back from that, it’s really about self-love and abundance and doing things that you can to treat yourself because every one of you out there is special and you deserve it. 

And so, that’s it. You know, if I can get that message out and we can influence people that way, and then, you know, you get one and then your kids grow up and they see that it’s just common to, I mean, there are countries, right? The Baltics countries like Sweden and the Russian groups, they have community saunas. They have them in every home. It’s part of their culture. It’s not the, you know, Western way that we know here, but why isn’t it? And where does that start? It starts with you and I. When our kids see it, see us using it every day, they go, oh, I wanna be like mommy, when I grow up. So I’m gonna hop in that sauna. That looks like fun, right? And that’s what it should be. And so, that’s where we’re coming from. And I think that if everybody incorporates it as a lifestyle choice and not just a thing I have to do to try to get better, then there’s a big shift. And I think that that’s gonna make a difference too.


Christine Schaffner, N.D.

Well, thank you so much for your time today, your knowledge, your inspiration. And I am so looking forward to our continued collaboration. So thank you, Robby, for this interview today.


Robby Besner PSc.D.

Pleasure, it’s only the beginning.


Christine Schaffner, N.D.

Yeah, very well said.


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