Fasting 101: The Truth About Fasting and Cancer

As you know that’s exactly how I’ve been for 15 years. I study it, I research it, I learn from the world-leading experts in the field and then I implement it in my own life. And he’s a relentless self experimenter, which I think really speaks a lot to his character. And what you’ll learn from him is it’s one thing to research something, to read it, to learn about, to hear it. It’s a totally other thing to actually do it, to actually do the fasting, to actually change your diet, to actually try the different types of medicinal movements and so on. So he brings that level of experience, which we need nowadays, especially with so many so-called social media, health experts, right? And he’s really a true warrior of from pain to purpose. That’s a mindset that he speaks about and lives by. And he talks in depth on removing the cause of toxicity inflammation going upstream and following a multi-therapeutic approach to health and healing, which as you know, is what The Global Cancer Symposiums all about. It’s about looking at integrative healing modalities that are effective and safe, especially when you’re dealing with something like cancer. His website is drpompa.com. Is D-R-P-O-M-P-A, drpompa.com. Make sure to go take a look at his website right after this interview. Dr. Pompa, thank you so much for joining us. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C. 

I’m glad to be here, I love the topic. 

Nathan Crane

So I want to just cut right to the chase. Can fasting be done safely for people who have cancer? 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

It can. I interviewed Thomas Seyfried, I don’t know if you’ve ever interviewed him for one of your pieces that you’ve created, but he said something pretty dramatic and he’s in the field of oncology for almost 30 years, if not over that at this point. But he said, “One fast, extended fast a year, “can decrease your chances of getting cancer at least 95%.” That’s a bold statement. 

Nathan Crane

Wow. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah, and there’s reasons for that that we’ll talk about obviously but, yes it can. But I do wanna say at the top of this show because every cancer is very different, every situation, every human. Always check with your doctor you’re working with first. Absolutely state that just to be clear because we 

know. Certain cancers respond fabulously and others may not as much. So check with your doctor. 

Nathan Crane

Yeah, that’s huge just in terms of prevention, right? And extended fast once a year, 95% potential reduction of risk for cancer When he’s talking, and I know of his great work, glad you referenced.

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah, he wrote “Cancer as a Metabolic Disease,” and he did a lot of studies with obviously ketosis, et cetera. But in his book he said that ketosis in itself isn’t enough. You have to have a restriction. What do you mean by restriction? Is fasting and fasting strategies. And I was blessed to be in a mastermind with him, and a lot even in my fasting book I really took from his years of just brilliant work. 

Nathan Crane

Yeah, we know cancer is so adaptable. We used to think, the science used to believe that it was only a glucose based fuel source that cancer would depend on. But what they found is when they starve cancer cells and only fed it ketones, cancer can actually adapt to thrive on ketones. They start with ketones. There’s two or three other energy sources that cancer can adapt to thrive on, right? 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah. 

Nathan Crane

There has to be a multifaceted approach. It has to be… You have to address everything, right? The entire diet, nutrition, exercise, lifestyle, everything, which is all these interviews we cover go into all those different aspects, even mentally, emotional healing, spiritual connection, all of that. And in regards to fasting when you’re talking about, or when he’s even talking about extended periods of fasting, how long of periods are we talking about? 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah look, it depends on the person. Some people can do a three-day fast and get great benefit. However, some people don’t fat adapt in reach which we call max autophagy fast enough in typically five days. Now look, that could be a partial fast where you’re getting your calories under a thousand and keeping protein at least under 20 depending on body size. Or it could be pure water. I do see, and this is my clinical experience, that we see people hit deeper levels of autophagy. I don’t wanna say that word one more time without giving it definition for people that don’t know what it is. That means that when you’re in a fasted state or deep caloric restricted state, your body will eat the bad cells, including potential cancer cells, bad DNA, just inflamed, you know, senescent cells, cells that live too long and oftentimes lead to cancer. But it’ll take those cells for energy and repair before it’ll actually take a good cell. That’s the magic of autophagy. Yeah, so some people don’t get to that autophagy state until a little longer. So therefore we have to look at a five day fast where most people hit what we call max autoph, where your body’s really getting rid of these bad cells around day four or fourth day in. 

Nathan Crane

And primarily you’re talking about water fasting, but you also said a major caloric deficit, like at a thousand, maybe a thousand calories a day, for example. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah, exactly. Valter Longo is probably the more modern researcher, Italian scientist who showed that partial fasting we can achieve very similar benefits. Meaning anywhere under a thousand calories, so if you’re smaller or maybe it’s five, 600. But you also have to get protein under 20. We get if you’re smaller, maybe it’s 15 grams a day. So that’s grams of protein a day, and that’s under a thousand calories. So that’s called a partial fast. But look, I learned of partial fasting years ago from a Frenchman Albert Mazier. And back in the ’90s I studied fasting. But look I think that there’s a place for that. There’s a place for pure water fasting where you’re really just allowing the innate intelligence to tap in to that autophagy in those bad cells as an energy source. 

Nathan Crane

So let’s back up a little bit. So that’s obviously one of the major benefits of fasting. What are some other really key benefits people can expect from longer fast? I know three days is kind of, I know in my experience, it’s like that’s minimum. Five to seven seems to be like a really good, let’s call it entry level really, right? Like to start really seeing good benefits, five to seven. I found 10 to 21 days is like where you’re really, and not just water fasting, right? Like juice, feasting, cleansing, detox, the major caloric deficit, right? But what are a lot more benefits people can really gain from fasting and cleansing.

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Absolutely, and I’m not a fan of juice fasting because it really does… One of the magics of fasting is keeping that glucose down so you go into a autophagy just like protein, right? If you eat too much protein, you shut autophagy. That’s why we have to keep protein down if you’re doing a partial fast, glucose as well. Glucose rises on juice fasting. You’re really missing a lot of the benefits. Someone just sent me a study in the last two days. They compare juice fasting with regular types of fasting, and there wasn’t any as much of the benefit we’re dealing with here with autophagy. Some of the other benefits though are, look, you know, the brains of water fasting is you’re resting this massive energy user of digesting and assimilating food. And the body just doesn’t sit on that extra energy. I talk about it, I call it energy diversion. So it diverts that energy that would normally utilize to digest and assimilate food, and it diverts to healing. It’s brilliant. So when we see people in a fasted state, all of a sudden they start retracing into some of these things, injuries that they’ve had years ago. Like, gosh, this left knee is killing me at night, or my in me. Well, that was an injury they had 20 years ago. It’s kinda like you take a vacation and all of a sudden you get to your HoneyDew list because you have more energy, you’re on vacation at the end of your day, and also you have time, right? That’s kind of what your body goes through, when you’re not eating.

So the energy diversion. You also reset your microbiome which we know 70, 80% of your immune system starts there. But I wish we could fix that microbiome and create diversity of the microbiome. That means like more types of bacteria. And that’s really what’s a link to immunity which I think is important for cancer, but it’s not so easy just to take pills to do that. When we fast, we actually stress the microbiome and we actually create greater diversity especially after the fast. So it’s a way to change, reset the microbiome, and it’s a way to create diversity which is really linked to immunity. Also, we, in times of fasting, which I believe genetically we were all set up, we all need to fast. Today we just have the pleasure, I guess, of being constantly in a feast mode but I don’t think it works out so well for us. We’re designed, our genes are designed to go through times of feast and famine, I believe, but the famine is what we miss. We don’t miss the feast as much. But what happens is we reset our DNA meaning, we take these genes that get turned on. It’s called epigenetics. And yeah, it could be certain cancer genes, it could be a thyroid gene, it could be obesity, or whatever it is. We can turn on certain genes. But during times of famine or fasting, we’re able to turn those off. So we talk a lot about genes that get triggered via stressors. It could be a physical stress, it could be a chemical stress, or an emotional stress. 

But we don’t talk a lot about our body’s ability to turn them off. I haven’t seen anything more powerful than fasting to actually turn off that gene. So resetting the microbiome, resetting your genetics, obviously both of those things have a huge effect on our immune system, the autophagy, which is getting rid of bad cells. And here’s the thing, you don’t just get rid of a bad cell when you go through this autophagy. You actually stimulate a stem cell and recreate a new cell. Now, why is that important for a condition like this? Because what happens is I said that you get rid of these things called senescent cells. Well, in our immune system we call them immunosenescence cells, meaning immune cells that live too long. Now, think of these guys as like zombie cells or better yet government workers. They don’t do a lot. They sit around doing nothing, getting paid, if you will, taking your vital nutrition, but they don’t do a lot. A matter of fact, worse than that they recruit other cells to do the same, so that’s not good. They drive inflammation. And in the case of immune cells, they drive hyper immunity which is linked to cancer. Okay, so we wanna get rid of these cells but here’s the best part, is we trigger a stem cell recreate a new immune cell. It’s vibrant. It’s actually doing its job. It’s working for you, not driving inflammation and hyper immunity and leading to cancer. So that’s yet another benefit of what happens during a fasting state. 

Nathan Crane

Yeah, just those alone, and you spoke quite a bit on the immune system as well, are incredible benefits for anyone dealing with cancer. We know that a strong immune system, I mean, Dr. Thomas Lodi, a great colleague and friend, somebody I’ve worked with for years now, he says it in my documentary about cancer. He says, “There is a cure for cancer. “It’s called the immune system.” And we know when you have a strong immune system you have a functioning lymphatic system, you have your immune cells, a strong microflora. All of these things contribute to your body getting rid of cancer by itself, that’s what it’s designed to do. So all those benefits you just named alone are worth deeper exploration for people certainly who have cancer that are considering fasting. I do wanna mention real quick. When I said juicing I should’ve clarified for people who are tuning in, especially with cancer, I’m specifically talking about green vegetable juicing, right? Which is low to no glycemic index with all the healing benefits from that kind of juicing. So we’re not talking about juicing beets and apples and oranges and things like that. It’s cruciferous vegetables. It’s high water content, vegetables, those kinds of things. So we know all the healing properties there. And I don’t know if this study that you referenced earlier had fruits in it as well or if it was just vegetable based. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah, in a partial fast, you can have a little bit of fruit. We try to keep the carbs under 50 in a day’s time. 

Nathan Crane

50 calories a day . 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

The green fast in the category of partial fasting, right? And there’s benefit to it. 

Nathan Crane

Yeah. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Right. Juicing carbohydrate, a lot of juice. When people think of juice so unfortunately, they’re thinking of the yummy juices, right? With all the glucose, not the green stuff. 

Nathan Crane

Right, right, I thought I better clarify that ’cause it’s important when you have cancer, especially if you’re juicing fruit, then you’re getting massive amounts of additional sugar without the fiber that your body actually doesn’t need when you have cancer, right? So anyway. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

No, no exactly. And I think that’s why, some really strict partial fasters would say, no you want some fiber, not just the juice. You’re better off eating to get to those calories. You have to be careful because with juice of any type you can get to increase calories pretty fast. So you don’t wanna just… You get, you wanna use your calories wisely but. And then on the length of the fast I don’t want people to be intimidated that you have to do a super long fast. That may come with time. Or body mass. A lot of people don’t have enough body mass to fast for a certain period of time. Therefore we’ve learned that shorter, fast, multiple fast, so multiple five-day fast, can actually be extremely beneficial. I just clinically did that years ago knowing that people even mentally can’t even think about not eating for a week or two weeks oftentimes, right? So we kinda shrunk it down as a small goal. But we’ve learned now with new science, Valter Longo and others, we seem to hit this max autophagy at day four and then day five we have this max growth hormone rise. 

So if we kinda utilize that max time and do it multiple times once a month, every other month, give the body time to recover, and there’s a principle of what I call diet variation in there, where you can come out of a fast, and you need a couple of days. You always break a fast very slowly because your microbiome has to readjust your digestive enzymes, et cetera. But after that, we move to higher protein and we stimulate a different pathway. One is called autophagy, we discuss on the fast, but this pathway when you’re doing high protein is called mTOR. MTOR is an anabolic pathway that for some people, now, and again, if you have cancer may not be a good idea. But for some people it’s magic doing feast, famine, feast, famine, right? So mTOR stimulation long-term people would argue leads to anti-aging. It can feed cancer cells, right? But short-term bursts of it can actually be healing. But again everyone’s a little bit different, but the bottom line is even without the mTOR stimulation going higher protein, by the way, you can stimulate that with high carbs, high protein, or high calorie. You see it’s opposite pathways. But even still if you did a fast, waited a little bit, and then did another fast in a month or two, then another fast, what happens is every fast you seem to get higher deeper levels of autophagy and all those benefits that I said, it seemed they get more and more and more with each fast. So instead of just setting out like do this one fast and the expectation of, okay, I’m gonna have all these amazing results with one fast, we found that shorter, multiple fast, you kinda just build on each one. And it’s easier to think about it that way instead of saying, okay, 21 days. So anyway, I hope that helps people. 

Nathan Crane

I think it does, because it’s also, you’re looking at a lifestyle shift, if you will, whereas often people will go on a cleanse or a fast, and they’re like, okay, I’m cleaned out I can go back to my old ways of eating. But if you’re looking at this as a long-term thing it says, no, I’m gonna do this every month, every two months and part of it is because I’m shifting what I’m putting into my body. I’m cleaning it out for the long-term. I wanna put only good nutritional things in before, during, if you’re doing cleanses or partial fast, and obviously after. Because the worst you eat between these fasting periods, and there was a period of a number of years where I was doing different kinds of fast and cleanses and detox, you know, six, seven, 10 times a year. So I was experimenting with all of these and it’s true. Like you start to desire your, you start to salivate over healthier foods. It’s like the broccoli you hated as a kid it’s like, now you can’t get enough of it. I take handfuls of spinach every day and I put it on everything, and I make big huge salads now and it’s like I never used to do that. I never used to even want it, right? I really believe the cleaner you get the more your microflora is telling you, hey, we need this, we need that. We need carrots, we need these healthy things. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

My son Simon, he saw, it’s a true story and I have the story in my book, but I was preparing for a lecture and he saw a before and after of a girl who had severe psoriasis eczema. She was in auto immune state even for other conditions. But he saw the before and after, and he says, “What is that?” And I said, I explained to him what it was, and well, “How did she fix it?” And the odd thing was he had just… This is my last youngest son. So he didn’t follow the pump program like the other kids did, right? He had some psoriasis on his head starting in a couple places on his body. And when I identified, oh, that’s what you have but way worse. . He left the room and he came back and said, “I’m gonna fast.” And I came out and I said, well, let’s be clear. Anyways, bottom line is I didn’t think he’d make it. I didn’t think he’d not eat dinner that night, okay? Then when he woke up and went through that he ended up going 11 days. And now, again, this son was overweight, so he was able to go 11 days, but it transferred to your point. It transformed his palette. 

He was carb addicted and he was never carb addicted anymore. If you saw him today, he’s lean he’s thin and that changed him. He went from this overweight child with carb addiction to a thinner child. Now, again, that’s what broke the addiction and then his weight just kept coming off after the fast. So, yeah, really good, good point that you made, that fasting goes beyond just the physical benefits. It can change the palette. Also, I always tell people when they fast, this is when you… Look every religion on the planet disagrees about everything, even prayer, except one thing, fasting. They all talk about fasting. Now, therefore there must be something here, right? So there’s a mental component to fasting that can transform this. We pointed out just in one area but many other areas as well. I will fast when I need breakthrough for something, either for myself, my family, or just in general. 

I’m looking for an answer. I want God to move. I fast and I expect it. And by the way, that’s Biblical and in my book I talked about the story of Jehosaphat where there was three massive armies coming against Israel and Jehosaphat was the King at that time. And like many places in scripture, he fell before the Lord called the people of Israel before the Lord in Judah, and he called a fast. And they cried out to God and God answered on their behalf. And literally the three armies ended up wiping out themselves and they never had to even lift a hand. But I’m telling you, I’ve seen that many, many times with fasting. Fasting will bring clarification of ideas. I get ideas when I’m fasting. Maybe just the fact that I’m in a weakened state, if you will, but yet in the strongest state mentally oftentimes and ideas come. And again if we want to… And again every religion believes this, right? It’s like we can move the hand of God in our favor. 

Nathan Crane

Yeah, that’s beautiful. And so speaking of, what are your fasting protocols look like personally? How often do you fast? What are your periods of length? And do you primarily do water or do you do 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

I do about four fasts here. Yeah, I do for a fact longer fast a year. Minor five days. I’m right at a perfect body weight so on a five-day fast, I probably lose about six pounds and probably three if it’s water. And I tap into some visceral fat and some fat systemically as well. Okay, so I do four fasts here. I do typically two water and two partial. 

Nathan Crane

Okay.

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

And in my book, I build out a partial fast. Valter Longo, the scientist that I mentioned earlier, he has his pro long which is basically a five-day fast with box, here’s the box food that you can do. It’s a great option. I prefer the one that you buy through doctors because it’s just cleaner food, I think in it. But in my book, I talk about how to build your own partial fast and how to water fast. Look fasting is like… Think of it as a stress, everybody listening. Exercise is a stress. If you adapt to the stress, you become better, you become stronger in every way, right? But we don’t want to run a marathon, right? So if fasting, if you attribute that to a 5K, 10K marathon whatever it is, something that’s going stress you, if you train for that, you’re gonna have a great result and you’re gonna finish. And matter of fact, after you’ll be stronger, not weaker. But if you go into a fast not prepared, it could be very difficult for you and you won’t get as good a result. So my book, I talk about what you should do a month ahead of a fast to really make sure you go into it fat adapted. You can enter autophagy day, one or day two instead of waiting to day four. And there’s strategies I’ve learned since the 1990s, so. 

Nathan Crane

What’s the title of your book that has this kind of design your own fast in it? 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah, it’s called “Beyond Fasting.” So it’s actually not released directly to the public yet. Right now it’s just in my inner circle, but you can get it. You just go to beyondfastingbook.com and you can get it. 

Nathan Crane

There you go, beyondfastingbook.com. Everyone, go get a copy of that book so you can learn more about this, obviously, and design your own fast. I actually have been designing my own cleanses and fast for years now. I started with one I spent two years designing called the panacea cleanse, and then I did another one recently called the prime cleanse. And they’re more a cleanse, they’re highly calorie restrictive, high nutrient density, fast cleanses, right? And this recent one was a 10-day, and I wanted to do a new one, One that helps people hang on to lean muscle mass while they’re fasting but also really get into the deep cellular rejuvenation. and nutrification, if you will, with highly potent herbs that help to heal. And I think, especially people dealing with cancer, how much should they really look out for, in terms of just doing water which can be very challenging mentally, physically for somebody who is already quite sick, but also could be very beneficial versus something that’s a little more easing into it, which could be like a calorie restrictive kind of cleanse where you’re also renutrifying yourselves at the same time? 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah, in the book I talk about these diet variation strategies that we do to create a hormone optimization before you fast. Because the whole idea of the fast is we wanna get into this max autophagy, and remind me how to measure that so you can know if you are. But we wanna get into that as soon as we can. So that month ahead what you do can train you for that. Look, water fasting, many people will say, “Hey, I did that my first fast “and it was super easy.” And so it is different for everybody, and I think there’s benefits to every fast, right? So I’m not just a proponent of one. Water fasting, when you just do water, without taking even supplements, nothing. You’re relying 100% on your innate intelligence. That is the inboard intelligence, your body, and something magical happens when that occurs. However, some people are so metabolically not able to enter into fat burning. And I talk about that, that we wanna get you there first. And then a water fast is very very easy because you’re just not eating. For me, partial fasting is more difficult because when I eat, I’m a train, I don’t like to stop, right? It’s harder to stop eating or drinking things. 

When I’m just doing water I just stay away from the kitchen and I’m good to go. Okay, but my body transitions to burning its fat very quickly and I don’t waste my muscle. But again, I’ve got myself there to that point, right? So you have to know where you are because a long water fast you could start tapping into muscle. Now what the studies show is that typically the first 24 hours, you’re gonna tap in, the average person that doesn’t fast, You’re gonna tap in mostly to your… A lot of it will break down muscle that first 24 hours. After that, now your body gets less, and less, and less, because growth hormones rising each day, and your body’s smart enough to protect its muscle. So you really don’t tap into as much and your body’s using bad cells. So if it does take protein, meaning from your muscle, gluconeogenesis, it’ll take bad protein. So that’s the other thing you have to understand too. But to your point, right? So again, we don’t wanna just run that marathon. Some people doing a couple partial fast, where you’re still eating a little bit, is mentally easier for you right? I mean, my gosh, I can go without food. Okay, I can have a little bit. Mentally that’s easy, right? 

Nathan Crane

Yeah. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Once you become more proficient at fasting, for me no food’s easier because it’s like I can’t stop eating. So you kinda have to know who you are, right? But also intermittent fasting daily, your people know all about it, that’s very helpful though, because you’re going 12 hours, 15 hours, 20 hours without food. You’re getting your body conditioned to switch over to use fat very quickly, which then, again, it protects your muscle. So when I enter into a fast I can end up in max autophagy day two, and I’m just massively burning bad cells. But again, there’s that training that you need ahead and intermittent fasting strategy is part of what I talk about. 

Nathan Crane

Yeah, beautiful. One more time what’s the web link for that book? 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Beyond fasting book. 

Nathan Crane

Beyond fasting, there we go, I’m gonna write it down so we have for everyone. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Beyondfastingbook.com. 

Nathan Crane

Beyondfastingbook.com. Obviously you’ve already mentioned quite a bit, and I know this is another major specialty of yours. You’ve talked about ketosis and ketogenic, talked about fat adaptation and so forth. I’ve had this theory for awhile and it’s becoming a little more and more confirmed, and you mentioned something earlier that’s confirmed this. I’ve mentioned some other kind of key researchers and doctors in the area. You said something about you believe we’re really designed genetically to go through famine, to go through fasting, to go into fat adaptation, right? So the theory I’ve had for awhile, which if you look back at our ancestors and you don’t have to go too far back to see this, but especially when you’re living sustainably off the land which our ancestors have for millions of years until more recently, until the industrial revolution and maybe even, well, within the last couple of thousand years, let’s say. 

But where you don’t have as much food through the winter, and the food you may have stored maybe higher fat foods, right? So as a survival mechanisms our bodies are designed to go into ketosis, right? Our buys are designed to go into some form of fasting or into some form of fat adaptation and one, as a survival mechanism, but two, as we know, short-term studies have shown, the major benefits if you’re in that state for shorter periods of time. But I wanted to ask you because there’s two sides of this, and I wanna know where the research has led you and where you stand on this. I’ve done a lot of interviews with world-leading medical doctors that work hands-on with cancer patients, and they’re in the integrative holistic field. And they may do a short term therapeutic, plant-based ketogenic diet for maybe a month or two to help patients quickly see some results. But what they have continued to share with me multiple times is that longterm… If you stay in ketogenic long-term, there’re major consequences of that, major consequences to that diet. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

To be the case for every diet. I believe that’s the case for vegan diets, vegetarian diets, keto diets, carnivore diets, paleo diet. I’m writing another book right now called “Diet Variation.” I do talk a little bit about this with the chapters in my “Beyond Fasting” book. But diet variation, I believe, is really where the magic is for many different reasons. I believe again, genetically, we were to change our diet. When we look at the science around when we do change our diet major magic happens. When you come out of that state where again, ancient cultures were forced, let’s be clear, to change their diet.

Nathan Crane

Right. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Lack of food, change of food, environmental changes. I mean, harsh winters, whatever it was. But the fact is is that our DNA is set up for that. We know one of the best ways to get diversity in the microbiome, again, diversity equals great immunity, is dietary change. One of the worst things we can do is stay on the same diet all the time. So therefore I’m not picking one diet. I’m not a fan of one diet. My biggest thing is the diet change is where the magic is. So people change their diet from this diet to that diet and they always seem to feel better. Maybe take a couple of weeks, right? But the fact is, is we know now that that changes the microbiome, adds diversity. So when the Hunza people, for example, they were deep in to ketosis, if not carnivore in the winter. And then they came out of it, they had run out of food, they called it fasting spring, they fasted. And then when the Brits would come and visit these people they thought they were vegetarians for goodness sakes because they were just living off land. So the point is, is that we scientifically know there’s magic in the change of the diet, but also looking at ancient culture. So look, I interviewed a guy named Alvin Dannenberg.

He’s a doctor actually. And he was supposed to die a long time ago. And I’ve been doing some on my “Cellular Healing TV,” that’s my podcast. I’ve been doing some interviews and I start now by saying, hey, you’re still alive. Guess what he did? He went complete carnival. That means he ate all meat. Now, granted, it was all grass fed. He made organ meats and he ate fat. And he did the impossible. Now he’s doing variation. He’s bringing some variation into that diet, but for a period of time, he was 100% carnivore So again, I am for 100% just vegetables, plant-based too, for times, right? And I believe that we’re stuck in one or the other. It’s not one or the other. The magic is what does it to my body, the change that happens. If we can force a stress into the body we’re gonna force an adaptation. And the adaptation is where the magic is, is where the healing is because the body, number one thing it wants to do is survive, and it does it via adaptation. So therefore it gets better and stronger, no different than exercise. So anyways, diet variation is a strategy. And again, I talk about it in my book but it’s a strategy to really get our immune systems to a whole another level.

Nathan Crane

I love that you just said that, and I’m excited about your book on that subject because I’m a CrossFit athlete, I compete in CrossFit and that’s a fundamental principle of CrossFit and why do people functional training, or CrossFit, or whatever you wanna call it, or whatever forms you wanna do. It’s all about diversity. It’s about adaptation. It’s about change. You go to the gym and you go work out if you’re doing CrossFit or functional fitness, and you almost never do the exact same thing twice, right? It’s 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

You would tell people if you do your results are gonna plateau. 

Nathan Crane

Exactly. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

It’s no different with diet. It’s no different at all. It’s the same reason hot, cold works, right? When you go from hot cold you get this massive hormone optimization, spikes in neuron epinephrine and decrease in inflammation and growth hormone spikes. Why? Because the body does the same thing how it adapts to exercise when you go from hot cold. Well, guess what? It does the same thing when you change your diet. The moment you change your diet you’re getting all this hormone optimization and all of the microbiome, diversity, all of it. So, what type of diversity? I talk about weekly diversity, monthly diversity, and seasonal diversity. And it’s a little different for everybody. What works for me may not work for you. But the point what works for everybody is the change, and making these changes. Look it’s easier too, because I’m constantly changing. So it’s easy, people are like, how do you stay so? It’s easy. Because if I’m doing this, it’s very new because I was just doing this. If I had to eat ketosis all the time, oh my gosh! I’d go out of my mind. There’s “The Carnivore Code.” Yeah, Paul Saladino. Yeah, look, there’s some gems in there, but again no disrespect to Paul. I think he’s a bright guy, but he just like so many diehards, you should always be carnivore. I don’t agree with Paul on that. Again, no disrespect, but-

Nathan Crane

And the hard evidence shows if you’re on a primarily animal-based diet for long periods of time, you’re risk of every major disease increases exponentially. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

And again, I watched the same thing happen with vegans and vegetarians. I do, right? It’s a matter of your genetics will determine just like the person. I know people watching this right now will say, “I’ve been keto for three and I’m fine.” People watching this will say the same about a vegan vegetarian, but eventually all of them will come up with shortcomings. The vegan vegetarians are gonna insert amino acids. Your body will start robbing and stealing. Over here, your body will be too mTOR, and then that can turn on surgery. I mean, I can make arguments on both sides and that that’s the whole point of it, right? That is the whole point. Ancient culture. No ancient culture was vegan, vegetarian meat only. I mean, not one. So I think that alone makes my argument. 

Nathan Crane

Well just speaking of that point alone just in the plant-based world, I mean so far we know of 300,000 different species of edible medicinal plants on the planet, right? So talking about diversity, the problem is if you go to the grocery store, the average accessibility, the average amount of plants that somebody eats on any diet is no more than 20, right? So we’re talking 300,000 and most people don’t ever eat more than 20 different species. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

I read even less. I read eight somewhere, but yeah, whatever. 28 were made. 

Nathan Crane

The takeaway here obviously, what you’re saying is diversity. It’s changing it up, it’s adaptation. But more important, going back to fasting, if people who are tuning in here haven’t fasted ever and they’re thinking about it or they know the power of it and they wanna do it, or they’ve been fasting and they’re like, “Okay, what’s the next thing?” What are some really good places for people to start? What would you recommend to people?

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah look, I think that intermittent fasting daily is a great place to start because you go, oh, I just skipped breakfast, I didn’t die. I was a little hungry. Yeah, you do that three times a week and you go, that’s not so bad, right? And then it’s like, oh, okay, I went 15 hours without eating. All right tomorrow I’ll go 18. And then you go, oh, okay. It just gives you a little confidence. And not only that. In my book I talk about mitochondrial fitness. Meaning if we stress our mitochondria that’s where we either burn. Sugar or fat. Remember our cells can only use sugar or fat, right? Specifically the mitochondria, that’s where we make energy. So we have good cells and bad cells. We have efficient cells and not so efficient cells, as we pointed out. We wanna eat and get rid of the bad ones. We wanna make better ones, and we want to make our existing ones even better. We look at a well healthy, trained athlete.

They have more mitochondria, but their mitochondria if they’re not eating, man they shift over to fat burning quickly, right? Unhealthy people, it’s the opposite. It’s like, oh, we will not eat this fat. Matter of fact, I’m gonna give you a craving you can’t resist. So then they’re getting hungry and breaking their diet. Or, okay, you’re not gonna listen to me? I’m gonna break your muscle down into sugar. I’ll show you. So we want behaving cells. Well, just like children and just like athletes, we better train them to get better, right? So therefore, mitochondrial fitness, if we’re just starting to go 15 hours, 20 hours, we don’t just go into the gym and do your workout. Are you kidding me? We’d be so sore the next day. CrossFit, we’d die and say, that’s bad for me. I’ll never do it. No, we go in and work a little bit at a time. 

Nathan Crane

Exactly. 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

So that’s kinda what I take people through. We wanna stress our mitochondria but we can do it with very short fast, and then go longer and longer and force the cells to burn fat then not. So that’s how we do it.

Nathan Crane

Yeah, I love that. You wanna ease into it. So intermittent fasting is a great way for people to start. You’re saying 15 hours or 20 hours. I know 12 to 14 is like absolute bare minimum. Is there like a sweet spot where you see the most benefit? Is that like that 15 hour range? 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Yeah, I mean, again, I think that you look at studies and we go, oh, we see some studies that show the autophagy can start at 15 hours. Look, some people it would start sooner, right? Some people it may take more. So I think that we get… Where’s the metal sweet spot, right? It’s like 12 hours is a long time for people. I don’t know that I personally would consider that a fast. But I think where I would consider a fast actually starting would be around 15 hours. Yeah, just looking at a meal, skip, right. But you’re even going a day where you just don’t eat one day, right? It’s like, that becomes easier and easier, but to not eat for one day you’re gonna have a lot of angry people. Why? Because your cells are stuck as sugar burners. So it’s not your fault. They just wanna burn sugar. And so they’ll take from your muscle. They’ll do all these bad things including giving you cravings, but we can change that, we can change that. 

Nathan Crane

And changing it is just by doing it again, and again, and again, right? Yeah it’s easier . 

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

First you stress them. The bad ones die. I always say bad cells don’t adapt. They go, right? You’re either autophagy or simply your body just, you know, they die off and your body gets rid of them. So bad cells don’t adapt. Here’s the good news, good cells get stronger. 

Nathan Crane

Beautiful, that’s exactly what we want. Well, Dr. Pompa I wanna thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Thanks for being here with us sharing all your great wisdom and experiences. This was the first time I got to spend time with you and I really appreciate it. I’ve actually… I love interviewing experts who are in the field working hands on because not only do I learn, but then we get to contribute and help change and save other people’s lives. So thank you for the great work you do. I really appreciate it.

Daniel Pompa, D.C.

Well, you are a great interview. Thanks for interviewing me because you’re knowledgeable. So you know, the right questions to ask for for them. So thank you. 

Nathan Crane

Yeah, hey, yeah. Thank you. My pleasure, and I wanna encourage everyone go to beyondfastingbook.com, get a copy of Dr. Pompa’s book, and I wanna thank all of you for tuning into The Global Cancer Symposium. Make sure, share this with your friends, family, colleagues, anyone who needs this life-changing information. And I encourage you plan your first fast. If you haven’t done one, obviously consult with your integrative doctor, find out, get some support on that and make sure that you’re mentally and emotionally supported as well as you go through it. But you know, like I said, I’ve been fasting, cleansing, detoxing for 15 years now and it’s been life-changing for me. I know it’s life-changing for so many people. So I hope that you’ve gain some great insight and inspiration from this interview. I’m sure you did. You can also go to drpompa.com, D-R-P-O-M-P-A.com. He’s got a lot of great resources there for you as well on fasting and cellular detox and a lot more. So make sure to go to that website. And also take a look at healthandhealingclub.com where you can learn more about our global membership dedicated to helping you get and stay healthy. Again, I’m Nathan Crane. I wish you all ultimate health and happiness. Take care.