Reading Human Biofield & Balancing the Body

Jason Prall

So I kind of told you before we hit record here that I was introduced to NES Health through a friend a number of years ago, and I just found it so fascinating what NES is doing with their little device that is able to pick up energetic signatures and then send infoceuticals using the power of water and programming energy into this amazing technology, and so I just wanted to seed that into the field here as we navigate this conversation. But I first wanna ask a little bit more about your background. How did you end up kind of getting interested in this sort of bio-energetic aspect of health versus kind of the standard model of chemistry that we’re all used to?

Steve McCardell

Yeah, well, I’ll tell you. I mean, we talked very briefly before you hit record, as you said, and you mentioned homeopathy as sort of like this early foray into energy medicine or bio-energetics. And actually I grew up familiar with homeopathy. So I remembered nux vomica as just something we would always take if we had an upset stomach. So I grew up with familiarity with that. I didn’t know enough at the time to know if it worked or not, but I became familiar with it and was more open to that from early days. And I remember actually in, I was in college when I just, really, just for whatever reason, got disillusioned with the idea of just pills and pills and pills all the time, right? And I really started reading and just moving in a totally different direction at that time. I remember at one point, probably somewhere around my college years, right? Going to a chiropractor who actually used muscle testing. And the first time you experience muscle testing, it seems like a ridiculous thing. And really when we talk about energy medicine, we may dive into this a bit, but we’re dealing with what we like to call a biofield or a body field. Just there’s a very real, once you get into physics, right, this very real thing of fields that drive everything. And really are at the foundation of physics and therefore of chemistry. And, you know, I remember thinking this muscle testing must be absolutely nuts. But I also remember putting out my arm and resisting as hard as I could and no problem, doesn’t budge, and then I would hold something else and my arm went straight down, right?

Jason Prall

Yeah, talk to me about that a little bit, ’cause I don’t wanna divert too here, but this is important. I think this really ties into what you’re talking about. What’s going on there with muscle testing and how is that working from a field perspective?

Steve McCardell

Yeah, so everything has its own field, right? And when you have fields interacting, there is communication that takes place. And that communication can either be harmonic or not harmonic, right? And the way I view a muscle test is that what you’ve done is you’ve introduced something that’s not harmonic with your body when your muscle goes weak. that’s the way I would interpret what’s happening at the field level. And so if we know that something like, a lot of times they’re testing a supplement or something and finding out, would this be good for you or not? They’re finding that it makes your muscles go weak and your arm drops. To me, that’s telling me one of two things. One, actually, it’s not a good supplement at least for you. But number two, it might be a great supplement, but maybe there’s something unbalanced in you that needs to be balanced and something else needs to balance it first, before you’re ready for that. So again, it might be a great supplement, but your body’s not ready for it. Maybe it will become ready, but other things have to get balanced first. 

And this is one of the key things that we work with with our software system is that when we’re scanning somebody, we’re effectively doing a muscle test, ’cause what we’re doing is we’re scanning the body field and we’re finding out what is working harmonically with our remedies and what is not. So where do you need support? And so a lot of people, you come with a Western mindset to a lot of things in bio-energetics or energy medicine. If you come with a Western mindset, you’re thinking, okay, the pancreas is having a problem, I have to give this thing for the pancreas. And what we’re looking at with muscle testing or with our scanning is saying, you know, where does the body need support and where is it ready for support right now? we might have things that provide support to the pancreas, but if it’s not ready for that, then that’s just a waste of your direction, right? Waste of your energy, your money in buying a supplement, but also waste of the body’s energy. It tries to be efficient. And if you’re trying to force something to work that’s not ready to do it, you need to really look at the body holistically and say, hey, where can we support somewhere else? That’s ultimately going to build that up and make it ready for its own shift. So that’s the way I would think about that.

Jason Prall

Yeah, no, that’s beautiful. And I think I’m thinking of a bridge here, right? As a former engineer, of course I go right to the bridge. But if you have this heavy load and you’re just trying to support it with cables, the bridge is gonna collapse, it’s gonna be a nightmare. No, you need the columns first.

Steve McCardell

Right.

Jason Prall

So we have to actually establish the columns for support structure before the cables. And so I love the way you’re looking at this, because it’s something that took me a while as a practitioner to really grasp is that there’s sort of an order of operations with a lot of this stuff. Not only from a, let’s say, treatment perspective, but also a support perspective. And sometimes for whatever reason, this amazing supplement here that everybody’s raving about is maybe not effective for you, and/or can actually tip you more out of balance. And that’s a hard thing to wrestle with. And I’m with you. When I first got introduced to muscle testing, I’m like, oh my gosh, you know, they’re putting more pressure at this point.

Steve McCardell

Yeah.

Jason Prall

It’s a big game that they’re playing. And then the more I worked with it, the more I realized actually, wow, I can actually feel how I’m weaker in certain instances. Regardless of even if they’re putting a little bit different pressure because invariably, ’cause this is an art, right? So it’s not a machine that’s putting exactly the same PSI at exactly the same place but I can feel the weakness.

Steve McCardell

Yes.

Jason Prall

And so I just knew. I knew that this was a really interesting way to test. And again, I even like to account for error in humans because we make a lot of them. And so even if the practitioner’s making some errors, I got shown enough to know that this works. And while this person may not be the best at it, ’cause there’s probably somebody even more tuned, more, you know, dialed in, so to speak, that the methodology is sound. That there’s something going on here. And then I had to look at, oh my gosh, this is a whole different way to look at supplement testing, at what’s good for me, of figuring out on a nervous system level, what I’m responding to. And if we do so from a perspective of not even showing the supplement or the food or whatever’s being put in the field of the person, and they don’t even see it, in other words, there’s no placebo effect taking effect.

Steve McCardell

Right.

Jason Prall

Then we can even draw even further conclusions. It gets really, really interesting. So once you got into this sort of bio-energetics, where did you go from there, from this sort of muscle testing because you can go in a million different directions. I mean, homeopathy is beautiful. Muscle testing. Did you just like dig into research and try to learn as much as you could about this stuff? Where did you go?

Steve McCardell

Well, to be honest, so I had seen some bio-energetic technologies. I don’t know if that was in college or shortly after college, but I had seen other people using some, actually, we had a lot of family members and friends going to this one particular clinic that they were using a different type of assessment than like NES or something like that. But it was this, you know, a computer based technology. And we had a lot of people swearing by it. And I have, actually, I think a lot like an engineer like you do, so you’re speaking my language there, because I actually come from a family of engineers. And yet I had people who were engineers going down to this guy and they were adequately impressed with what was happening. So I started to get familiar with that. And I actually went down and had an assessment done with somebody, actually, as you say, even then it was somebody else using the same technology, didn’t have the same results, he didn’t know how to do the reading quite as well, so even with technology, there’s a little bit of an art to it. But eventually, after I had my first son. Well I think we had both of our sons by that point. But we wanted to help my one son through something. He had this sort of nervous tic going on. And so we took him down there. 

And we were basically told what’s happening is the ends of his nerves are very sensitive and it actually feels for him like he’s got a little spiderweb or something on his face and he was always kind of trying to wipe it away, right? And so he produced a little homeopathic remedy for him on the spot. And my son within, and he’d had this tic for a long time, within three or four days or a week or something like that, it was gone. And so it just emphasized for me, first of all, that the machine was picking up on accurate information. And number two, that the remedy for it, even though it was an energy remedy, right? It worked in a very short period of time. I find kids and pets respond super well to energy medicine ’cause they’re not blocking it all with their minds. And then actually, later, for whatever reason, that tic actually came back for him a while later. And at that point I was new to actually using NES clinically, and I scanned him with our system. 

Again, found nerve stuff, coming up in his assessment, and gave him the remedy for it. Again, within a couple of days it was gone. Never showed up again. So I mean, so that was sort of a process of discovery, and then really when our kids were young, and… We were in a position where basically we were able to explore going in the direction of having a clinic, right? And when you have young children, you’re thinking about health a lot, you’re thinking about how you care for them. And so my wife and I got really interested in taking them down this natural health road, this pathway. And we decided to open a clinic, so we went out and got some education around holistic training and everything. But it was really a lot of emphasis on bio-energetics, and it’s why I’ve bought and tested and sold the things I didn’t like, but I have checked out a lot of different equipment. And NES was really the core of what I ended up doing there. And that’s how I got involved with it.

Jason Prall

Yeah, I love that. And you mentioned pets. And they’re the perfect test subjects for this type of thing. And invariably what you see when you include energy types of medicine is that they work even better in pets sometimes than they do in humans. And so it’s beautiful to see. And we kind of hinted around your technology here, and I wanna go deeper into it, but give me the core essence, like what’s the sort of big picture idea of what is NES, and what’s going on with that technology?

Steve McCardell

Sure. So Peter Fraser was one of the co-founders of NES. Peter had a long history in traditional Chinese medicine, actually wrote a textbook for it down in Australia where he lived. Used in the universities down there. So he was really familiar with that system, but he wasn’t satisfied that it was complete enough, that it did everything he wanted to understand the body. And he was exploring quantum physics. He was exploring energy from a more modern perspective. And he wanted to dive deeper into it. So really he spent decades doing research with bio-energetic equipment, earlier versions of things like the EAV electronic, sorry, electro-acupuncture, according to Voll, these little meridian testing points that you can use with a machine. 

He started modifying equipment and coming up with unique approaches to basically testing how the body field works. He started with sort of the, you know, checking the meridian system overall and largely confirmed it. He found some variations, so in our system we don’t call them meridians, we call them integrators, ’cause they’re a little bit different. But he, over those years came up with this larger theory of the body field in which you’re dealing, not only with the meridian system, but you’re dealing with the fact that our little individual field is interacting with these huge fields produced by the earth. The fact that we, rather than just, I guess in TCM, with the meridians, you’re kind of talking about the flow of energy is how it’s usually described. We actually talk about that as the flow of information. So we see it as a communication pathway.

Jason Prall

Right.

Steve McCardell

Really, it doesn’t differ so much from an energy pathway, except for when you get into the theory of, well, what is energy versus what is information, it gets a little bit more subtle and interesting than just calling it an energy pathway. But we do see communication along that pathway versus sort of your everyday activities. We see pathways of communication along the divergent meridians for more like healing, correction processes in the body. We look at how the organs are actually generating energy. Is there enough energy for this communication to even take place? So there’s this whole theory of the body field that we talk about. We actually go into it more extensively. We’ve written several books over the years, our most recent is “Restore Your Energy With Bio-Energetics”. It really goes into that theory. But that’s sort of the theory that was based on. And then Harry, our other co-founder, who’s our CEO today, really, he met with Peter and they took Peter’s theories and they said, this is how we can incorporate it into actual technology, and do an assessment on the body field in real time. 

And then based on that assessment of the body field, we know exactly where to actually provide corrections. And that’s really where we get into what we call our infoceuticals, and later we introduced a bioelectric technology called the miHealth, both of which basically introduce information, corrective information through the process of resonance, which is probably something a lot of people you speak with, for a summit like this, they’re probably talking resonance a lot, I imagine. It’s based on that same information. Rather than simple frequencies though, we talk about really complex frequency sets. A frequency set is what distinguishes one thing from another, that they’re all based on electrons, protons, neutrons, whatever you wanna say, these same basic elements that have their own single frequencies, but you start to combine those into atoms and molecules and cells and you have these incredibly complex patterns. And that’s what you really get down to when you say an energy signature, that’s really what we’re talking about.

Jason Prall

Yeah, I really, really enjoy what you’re talking about here because I think one of the things that gets lost even in energy medicine discussions is this idea of information, is this idea of intelligence. We get so focused on the energy because it is important for energy to flow and energy to move. But the question is why.

Steve McCardell

Why, exactly.

Jason Prall

Why is it important for the car to go on a highway? Well, it’s to get somewhere, it’s to deliver something. There’s a reason, and it is this intelligence. And I’m a huge fan of Ayurveda, and this is one thing that they talk about in chronic disease or any symptomology is that there’s a loss of intelligence. The cellular intelligence is lost, why? Because the communication channels are suffering. And the intelligence that is inherent, that goes with the energy is not moving around. It’s not making its way. And so this is so important what you’re talking about because it goes beyond just the energy. It is the energy signature, it’s a symphony of information that is there that you’re providing correction to. And again, in a way that is not necessarily adding something to the body, but rather this resonant technology, like two tuning forks, when you bang one and the other one starts to ring again. It’s like, it’s a reminder of, hey, this is how this is supposed to work here. And the body knows, right? Like that’s the beautiful part is that it just needs a little bit of a nudge, a reminder, so to speak, of how it wants to be operating. And once that intelligence sort of comes back online and the communication channels are opened, boom, we’re off and running and health is restored.

Steve McCardell

Well, exactly. And I’ll tell you, when you talk about energy, we like to say, well, energy is the foundation of everything, right? I mean, chemistry is driven by energy and therefore you’re getting down to the root. And my argument would be well, not exactly, because the presence of energy and the movement of energy and its relationship to energy is based on the underlying information. So energy is really a result also, and information is even more subtle than that, it is what determines everything. So we talk about this huge field that we live in, this gigantic empty space that’s not actually empty, it’s jam packed full of information, and that is why energy appears in the first place, and why it appears where it appears in relationship with other energy. It’s all based on that.

Jason Prall

Yeah, and I’m currently finishing my book on sort of longevity and living a healthy life into our later years. And one of the aspects I talk about in the book is, let’s say, one of the things that I did some deep thinking on, and I’m not the first to do this, but just in my own way of thinking about how we go from a zygote, basically a single cell, into multicellular, into multi organs, and all these different tissues and functions. There’s something going on there. It’s not just energy randomly expressing itself. There is an organizational principle. There are energetics that are directing the development of organs and cells and different cell types and doing so in a time dependent manner. That we can count on. We know the development of a fetus.

Steve McCardell

We’ve got a due date for you.

Jason Prall

It’s crazy. And then even after that, it continues, and we can basically count on how this is gonna play out. And when you really sit with that, it’s truly amazing that we can go from one cell meeting another cell, and then all of a sudden, somehow, due to this energy and information, we get this natural unfolding and multi complex systems. So it’s really, really interesting when you get down to that level. So I want to get into the technology. So what is it? We’ve got the essence, but gimme on a sort of nuts and bolts, what are you guys doing, what are you giving people, and how does it sort of work on a sort of practical level?

Steve McCardell

Yeah. So we have this software that actually gives you a visual read out of the state of the body field, where it is off. So we’re talking about, this is what the body field’s supposed to look like, but here and here and here, yours isn’t looking like that. So looking for areas where it needs support. It needs that resonant information so that it can restore itself. And so what we do is we… Every cell, as you know, has its own field. Every molecule does, everything. But every cell has its own field, and collectively the organs do, collectively, the whole body does. And that actually comes off of you. And likewise, that information is carried even on the sounds of the body. So when I’m speaking to you, information about my body is actually in that voice, which is really a cool thought in the sense of when we’re sitting, talking to each other. And I don’t know how different it is when we’re talking here versus face to face, ’cause then we’re also in the presence physically of our fields. But information about our bodies is carried on our voice, right? You imagine the impact you have when you’re speaking to somebody. It’s actually a responsibility, you know? If you don’t have anything nice to say, really don’t say anything at all!

Jason Prall

I actually recently read that there’s research actually happening right now that they’re actually studying the voice of an individual and trying to predict the illnesses or the things going on, both emotionally, mentally, and physically. And this is, in other words, basically detecting the changes of the same individual and their voice patterns, and trying to essentially predict what’s going on there.

Steve McCardell

Yeah, and that’s actually, so that’s studying the sound itself.

Jason Prall

Yeah.

Steve McCardell

Which is super, super cool because that is more mechanical in nature. There’s a lot of things they can use to do that. We actually, again, because we’re an information company, and we’re saying, hey, that’s actually carrying information. ‘Cause that’s the carrier wave, right?

Jason Prall

There’s embedded information.

Steve McCardell

What’s the information that’s embedded on it? it’s like the radio station receives a frequency, but without ones and zeros carried on that frequency, there’s no music. So you turn to 98.7. There’s no music unless that information is there. So in the same way, what we’re able to do is either through a hand device where your field is interacting with a field generated by the system, or by your voice where we can capture it with a recording. But again, you have the information there interacting with the field generated by the computer or whatever, right? You’re having this interaction. And our software basically says, hey, we know by odds alone. As we’re generating results, we know by odds alone what is likely to show up. Then we’re able to measure where there are deviations from that. And so what we’ll do is we’ll say, okay, we’ve got a range of zero to green, yellow, orange, and purple, right, in terms of our readings. 

And the greens and yellows I would say are reasonable deviations from, because if you roll the dice, you know, you flip a coin, let’s say you flip a coin 10 times. It’s not always gonna turn up five heads and five tails. That’s just the average over a long time. But you flip it a certain number of times, you might get six and four. So greens and yellows are a certain area of deviation away from the expected norm. 

But once you get into our oranges and our purples, we said, hey, we’ve tested this a bunch of times, ’cause our test actually tests each item many, many times. ‘Cause we’re looking for that deviation. And we’re saying, look, we’re repeatedly seeing that this is off of what it should be. And so these are our areas of concern. So that’s what we do, that’s what we do is interact with your body field, and the information carried on that. We capture that by our software and we say, this is what the body field should be looking like, this is what it looks like. And we have a bunch of different screens that go through, as I said, you know, the different areas of the body field I described. We also look at how the body field is responding to nutrition, to environmental factors, you know, toxins and things like that. And we even, because this gets us down a totally different pathway, but really, if you wanna understand the mind, and stress, shock, trauma. And where these things actually store themselves in order to continue affecting us physically. Like why does stress, why do they say stress is this huge impact on health? Because those things, everything interacts with us first through the body field. And if you haven’t fully processed an emotion, then it remains ringing in the body field. We like to call them emotional oscillators. But it just means that basically something’s continuing to vibrate in the body field, which then has a biochemical response. And the problem is if that’s not cleared out at the subconscious level, it will continue to be a problem. That’s why shocks and traumas can lead to so many problems, physical problems for years and years, ’cause they’re never dealt with at the level of a subconscious mind. From my view, the subconscious mind is the body field.

Jason Prall

Totally.

Steve McCardell

It’s basically stored, it’s information that’s stored there. All of our experiences stored there and therefore affecting us physically. So we do actually deal with emotional components of the body as well. And we have actually a mind body screen where we deal with more of the shocks, traumas, emotions. But we also get into… Sorry, I misspoke. Into the shocks, traumas, stresses. And then we also deal with a screen dealing specifically with emotions where we can pick those up because there are resonances with every emotion, so we can test for them.

Jason Prall

I love that. And so you do this comprehensive test through your device. And then you essentially get a picture of the current state of health and what might be going on, what’s out of balance, perhaps what’s needed. And then what happens from there?

Steve McCardell

From there, we actually have a recommendation screen. We say, look, out of all the different things that would best support your body, here are the ones that are most impactful for you. So on the one hand, and I’ll talk about that in a second. On the one hand we do ask about things, like I said, what about environmental toxins, things like that. So if something is coming up and you know that that is in your environment, then a practitioner can have a conversation with a client, say, so, I see this as showing up in the scan. Are you cooking with aluminum, or whatever it is, right? And have conversations that can lead them towards healthier lifestyle choices. So that can be environmental toxins, doing a cleanup in the home. It can have to do with EMFs. It can have to do with, hey, are we getting the right nutrition? So those types of conversations can be had outside of NES proprietary remedies. But then in addition to that, we have these remedies, we have liquid remedies, where basically we have mineral water. And the minerals are really there just to help structure the water and help to retain a more stable imprinted information. But then we run these through a machine. We used a high powered electrostatic field to basically open it up for imprinting. And we used photons and magnetic fields to imprint information into them. And then we basically collapse it back and lock it in as it leaves that electrostatic field. 

And so you have these little bottles of information, we call them infoceuticals for that reason. And when you take those, then there’s this resonant response in the body to make corrections. And actually we’ve got, we’re actually doing some really cool research right now at the University of California, San Diego. They’re researching these. And I know it’s like the craziest thing in the world. People think, well, this bottle has the same ingredients as this bottle. How on earth are they different, right? Well because we imprinted them with different information. Yeah, but it’s like, it doesn’t seem real. Well they’re actually using these spectral readers out at the university, and they’re reading the different infoceuticals, and they’re getting different spectral readings out of them. So the head of research there, he’s fascinated. He’s like, you seem to be entangling information into there that then does have a biological response ’cause they’re actually doing live tissue research, and they’re finding viral protection. The latest stuff they’re working on is they’re showing some stem cell growth at a level they’ve never seen with any other product. I mean there’s some really cool stuff going on. And so we have like this whole history of clinical research and pilot studies and things like that, that we’ve done over the years. But right now we’re really pushing on research, ‘Cause we think that’s what brings this to the masses.

Jason Prall

Well it has to. Because for some people who are inclined to adopt or get excited about this thing, they’re gonna get excited no matter what, right?

Steve McCardell

Yes, yep.

Jason Prall

And then there’s others who are gonna basically deny it wholeheartedly because it doesn’t fit their worldview. And then there’s some that are gonna be a little apprehensive, they’re not gonna believe. In other words, they might believe that this exists, but they’re not really sure that your product’s really gonna be doing this things.

Steve McCardell

Exactly. 

Jason Prall

So we really do need, and I’m actually in sort of that camp. Basically, I’ve lived my whole life, like hey. You gotta kinda prove it to me. You gotta prove me something that you’re just not another marketing agency with a bottle of water that you’re trying to pitch to me. And that’s kind of how, it’s a discernment tactic,

Steve McCardell

It is, it is.

Jason Prall

It’s served me very well. And it’s also maybe held me back in some areas. So there’s a fine line with like, where do we take this? But I think this is what’s so valuable about let’s say mainstream research. I mean, I’m shocked that, UCSD’s right in my backyard, by the way, I’m in Carlsbad.

Steve McCardell

Oh, cool, yeah.

Jason Prall

It kind of makes me wanna just drive down there and go hang out with him and watch him. But it’s cool that you’re actually able to get mainstream universities to actually look at this stuff. And I love the fact that I can actually see like the looks on their faces, like, what the heck’s going on here? That’s such a cool thing when we can get mainstream science to kind of open their minds enough to even take an honest look, even though if they can’t figure out what’s going on. But it gives us a sense for us who are in the consumer side of things, a little bit more confidence that you’re just not some company throwing up all these wild claims that even if you believe them, but they don’t work, right?

Steve McCardell

Right, exactly. And look, like I said, I think the same way. And so for me, it’s really exciting that we’re doing this. Because I have enough, look, I have enough years behind me now with this technology and with these solutions, I’ve seen the results, that I’ve gotten convinced. And when I go into the trainings and I’ll ask even people who are new to the system. I’ll be training new practitioners and saying, hey, I know you’re new to this system. Have you seen anything happen yet? The hands go up and you hear these incredible, incredible stories sometimes. And it’s awesome. But I understand it’s anecdotal for them. I’ve heard enough now that it’s beyond anecdote. But I know that we don’t take it mainstream until this research is done. And I know that’s what’s needed for bio-energetics. Because there are so many companies out there and I’m like you. I see these devices and things come out and I’m like… I don’t know about that. And then I’ll bring out my EMF reader, I’m like, that doesn’t seem to be blocking EMFs. So I have that sort of very open mind, I’m very, very open minded, but I’m also skeptical. Luckily this particular research group, they had recently been studying meditation and its impacts on biology.

Jason Prall

Ah, cool.

Steve McCardell

And so they were already a bit more open and that was the way that actually they came across Harry and met with Harry. And they were open to doing this. But sure enough, they’re like, there’s no way you’re entangling information into water. There’s no way, but we’ll test it for you if you want. And it’s been a lot of fun to see them progress. And now they have people. I guess there’s one of the researchers. I guess they used beagles in some of the research over at the lab somewhere, I don’t know. And this one beagle was not himself, was not a beagle. And one of the researchers took this dog home for her own, I guess, after the research. And had seen enough with the infoceuticals that they were studying, that she took a bottle of, I think she took a bottle of what we call Energy, It’s a fairly simple product. She took that back and gave it to the beagle. It hadn’t been barking, it just didn’t have much life to it. She said, within a matter of days, it was barking, it had life and everything, and she’s like, they’re just as a team, just having fun with this. And I love that because the more fun they have, the more ideas they’re gonna come up with and test. And that’s what we want. We want that. We look forward really to having it published and having this sort of thing, really cement bio-energetics into the future of where everything is going.

Jason Prall

Yeah, yeah, totally. And I’ll tell you one reason I got excited about NES and what you guys are doing is because as an integrative functional medicine sort of practitioner, one of the things in that model, which I don’t really practice anymore, but when I was really following that model. One of the things that one would do is really look at the person in front of them and try to figure out what’s going on. And then from there, the next step is in that model, again, is to do testing. And you might do an organic acids test. And then you might do a test to look at their cortisol rhythms and their melatonin rhythms. And you look at hormones and you look at perhaps a stool test, right? And so the downside to that model from my perspective in clinical practice is that a lot of that costs a lot of money. And you’re taking a lot of different tests because you gotta do a stool test for this, and then you gotta do a blood test for that. 

And you gotta do a urine test for this. And then you gotta do a saliva test for that. And you gotta, even if, first of all, you put on your thinker hat and your practitioner hat to figure out which test to run. But then once you run the test, now you got a snapshot, but you gotta use all these different tests that are quite expensive. It can often range, if you’ve spoken with that has chronic issues that are complex. These tests alone can run $1,000, $2,000. And that’s just the beginning. And then you gotta take the supplements and you gotta buy those, and then you gotta hope, and do the lifestyle changes, hopefully that’s recommended as well. And then perhaps you retest. And so,

Steve McCardell

Right.

Jason Prall

the downside with that model that I had a hard time with as a clinician and also for my clients, was that it got very expensive quickly. So we’re basically just paying a lot of money for all these tests. And they’re snapshots in time, they’re imperfect, they’re limited. They’re not looking at trauma, they’re not looking at all these other factors. We wanna do heavy metals tests. There’s all kinds of debate on which one’s best and how it all works. So in other words, it’s a long way of saying that it’s an imperfect model that is still developing. And while I do think there’s value, it’s very expensive. And so this, when I got introduced to it for the first time, I said, if this works, and if it’s able to test what it says it’s testing. And even if the remedies, even if you guys don’t even sell remedies, if I can even just get a snapshot of what’s going on in real time, in a comprehensive way, there’s massive value in what’s going on here.

Steve McCardell

That’s absolutely true. and one of the nice things with a test like this, if you actually go through the scan with somebody, it also opens conversations. And so sometimes you’ll find, so you’ve done your intake process, and you’ve learned what you needed to learn about the client, you know what you’re focusing on and trying to help with. But what I find is a lot of times, if I go through the details of the test with them, all of a sudden, there’s like somebody pointing at the screen saying,

Jason Prall

It jogs their memory.

Steve McCardell

I forgot to tell you about that. Right, yeah, I forgot to tell you about that. And it picks it up, and it reminds them that they wanna tell you about that. So there’s that, and then the other thing with testing, I totally agree. There is a value in that it is more conventional diagnostic, here’s your disease, let me look at supplements that will fix that disease. And what we’re doing is we’re saying, forget about the diseases, forget about all that. What we’re looking for is where we can support the body best. ‘Cause the body is holistic. And like I said, it might be the pancreas is having an issue but we don’t wanna support the pancreas right now. So it is a different mindset. We are not doing a 0 to 100 worst to best scenario. It is a, where do you need support today? So it gets away from this linear good and bad. And so our system won’t tell you you’re getting better. 

Whereas with these other tests that you’re talking about, we’re trying to say, hey, if I test here and then do these things and then test here, I’m gonna tell you that you’re getting better. So there’s some value to that. There’s a flip side of that. How many people go to the doctor and say, you know, they go through all these tests, and they say, well, it’s all in your head, or the tests are fine, there’s nothing wrong with you. No, there’s absolutely something wrong with me. So with our system is, hey, where can we best support you? And you’re gonna tell me a month from now or two months from now, I’m feeling better. That is the best test of all. Are you feeling better? So there’s something nice about the objectivity, especially for minds like yours or mine, where we want that, hey, I wanna see the linear progress on paper. I don’t care how you’re feeling. 

I wanna see it on paper that you’re getting better. But in reality, somebody wants to feel better. And so that is in one sense, the best test of all. So you start to combine these worlds, and you use both of them for their pros, and you balance out where each of them needs support. ‘Cause the way we view it is the fundamental is energy. The fundamental is bio-energetics. But once energy has produced a physical, chemical body, then introducing chemistry through nutrients, for example, every nutrient has its own field. You’re interacting with the field via nutrients, just as you can through like our infoceuticals or our miHealth device. So it’s a two-sided coin, and working with both, coming from both directions is really where you get your optimal results.

Jason Prall

Absolutely. And that’s the way I see NES is this complementary approach to whatever else might be beneficial. And look, I’ve seen a ton of people get better with just doing emotional trauma. I’ve been in ayahuasca circles, and seen tumors, noticeable sizable tumors vanish in a matter of days. So this speaks to the power of energy. And actually to that point, this is actually, you mentioned anecdote, right? And I always like to say that the plural of anecdote is data, right? So it’s like, if you can get enough anecdotes,

Steve McCardell

Yeah, right.

Jason Prall

then we don’t need a study. We got the answer. And one of the things I recognized, because that’s a world I’ve been in quite a bit, which is the ayahuasca world and the indigenous healers that have a lineage of using those medicines is that they’re actually chanting. They’re actually intending, they’re putting, they’re transferring, they’re programming energy into the brew. And I’ve seen this multiple times. I’ve experienced it. I understand it. And so I didn’t know that going in. I didn’t anticipate that. But what I ended up realizing was that’s exactly what they’re doing, is that they’re using the brew, the actual liquid brew itself as a conduit for-

Steve McCardell

As a carrier, yep.

Jason Prall

Exactly, right? And it’s not the only thing, but at some point in their path of working with this medicine, they realized that was a methodology that they could utilize. Both in the water, in the substance, as well as in the fields energetically, and etherically so to speak. And then the different realms that they work in. But I’ve seen this. This is why working with a really skilled indigenous practitioner with a lineage who’s been taught by generations is so valuable is because they’re working on the energetic level. It’s not just the thing you’re drinking that anybody can produce, and it’s just the combination of Xs and Ys and blah, blah, blah. No, there’s energetic qualities to this. And again, that was, just like you, that was proof enough for me to recognize that we can do this on so many levels. The shamans are just doing it on a different level, but you guys are like modern technology shamans.

Steve McCardell

Exactly, I love that, modern technology shamans. But it’s exactly right. Like I am all for somebody who can go like this and heal somebody, right? Energy medicine at its, you know, totally subjective, right? Not duplicatable, but no doubt valid. Like you said with muscle testing, there’s probably some people who can kind of do it, some people who are charlatans, and some people who are amazing at doing that. So I have no doubt about that, but you can’t duplicate that. You can’t take that out to the masses until at some point in human history, we’re all like, we’re so developed that we can just, whatever.

Jason Prall

Right.

Steve McCardell

But right now, what I love about what we’re doing is that we are objectifying that process. So even Peter, who was very good at doing all this testing, and he could test you without our software in terms of what you needed, that’s how he developed what underlies the software today.

Jason Prall

That’s how he systematized it, right? Like he systematized his process with this technology.

Steve McCardell

Exactly. So Harry came along and basically said, hey, I see what you’re doing, but we can’t teach other people to do exactly, that’s art, right, and art is great, but we can’t blow that up and take this out to billions of people around the world. So once you bring it into software and once you have, you know, a machine that you can send this water through, and imprint right there, right? We can duplicate, and that’s what I really like about this. And, you know, in some of the testing I was referring to earlier at University of California is they’re doing this live tissue research. And they were saying, okay, if we put some live tissue, they use epithelial lung tissue. We put some of it in a standard medium. And then we want another control. We want the infoceutical before it’s an infoceutical. Take that bottle of water with minerals in it, before it’s ever gone through the imprinter, and put some of the tissues in that, and then put some of the tissues in the infoceutical, ’cause you need to eliminate that, right?

Jason Prall

Totally.

Steve McCardell

And then what they did is they exposed all those three different things for an hour, and they had like 20 vials of each, so they could repeat this over and over and over. And then they exposed all of them to, they did this with two different viruses. They exposed it all to a virus and waited 24 hours, and they were able to use a machine to look at viral penetration into the cell. And what was really cool is the standard media and the infoceutical control, that is, it was not an infoceutical, right? They both had no effect on viral penetration. But then the actual imprinted infoceutical, all of a sudden, you see the penetration drops, and they did that with two different infoceuticals and different viruses, and both of them had the same type of effect. And the cool thing, and this takes us back to like homeopathy where they say, basically, you keep diluting, diluting, it has different effects. They actually test it down to, I think down to a 10,000 dilution. And it was still having the identical result to the more condensed version. So it was at any dilution that they tested, it was having an equal impact. So it’s really cool stuff. And what I liked about that dilution test, honestly, is because, you know, if you’re testing a little vial of lung tissue with, I don’t know how many drops they used, but let’s say they used a drop, but that same drop is gonna be much smaller in the body. So it can have an effect on the body. Well, when all of a sudden one 10,000th of it would do the same thing, now you realize how these little drops can affect the whole body.

Jason Prall

Yeah, that’s great. And again, I love that they’re doing this because it’s essentially validating Peter’s work, and your guys’ work and Harry and everything, everybody that’s been involved in the development of this technology. But also, hopefully it’s gonna help you guys figure out some new ideas, new methodologies, new ways of using this technology. And the more they continue to sort of validate or hypothetically invalidate something, then that just sends you guys in a more coherent direction, a more precise direction. And now you’re coming up with new ideas, new ways of doing things. And you’re off to the races because you have a third party that’s actually coming in and assisting you.

Steve McCardell

Words out of my mouth. I literally was talking about that the other day with somebody, I was like, hey, we have all this awesome theory in all of our foundation, and we’ve been running for 20 years, getting results worldwide with it, so, okay, there’s something to it, we’re excited already. But now, yes, we can test, in theory, I mean this would be overwhelmingly amount of work, but you could take a single virus and test it against our whole line infoceuticals and find out which one impacted that virus the most. And our focus by the way is not on viral protection. It’s not our focus. Our focus is on optimizing the body. So we’re really gonna be doing more with, you know, brain health and different things like that, muscle health and things like that, and where can we optimize the body? We think when the body is optimized, it deals with viruses. So that’s not really our focus.

Jason Prall

You’re focusing on the terrain. You’re more like a terrain theory.

Steve McCardell

We’re focusing on the terrain, exactly, absolutely. We say a strong body, you’re gonna deal with that, ’cause you’ve got viruses. You’ve got trillions and trillions and trillions of viruses in your body, same with the bacteria and things like that. You just need it all balanced.

Jason Prall

Yeah. 

Steve McCardell

But exactly right. You could in theory, say, okay. We think that these are gonna have the greatest impact on brain health or stem cell growth or whatever it might be. Now let’s test our whole line against it. And we may not be able to do, it may take years and years to be doing those types of things. But we will gradually see from a scientific point of view, which ones have the greatest impact in different areas and absolutely rewrite help files or whatever we need to do to say, hey, we’ve now validated, it actually does more of this.

Jason Prall

That’s right.

Steve McCardell

It does excite me. We both know, right? Bio-energetics is absolutely a future, a foundation to the future of medicine. And so, I’m excited about this, not only for NES, but for the movement as a whole. And I think that that’s an important thing. Our goal is really, our big hairy audacious goal as they call it is to make sure, to see at least a billion people’s lives impacted by bio-energetics. Obviously as a company, we want that to be a big part of us, but we want to see the world shifting in that direction, and we think that this will help move everybody in that way.

Jason Prall

Yeah, well, I think anything that, any of this technology that has integrity, that’s getting some third party testing and being researched is gonna contribute to that movement. And, you’re speaking to something that actually, as I progressed in my sort of integrated functional medicine practice, I started using things like muscle testing in a variety of ways. And one of the things that I started doing was I would muscle test somebody and let’s just for as an example, you know, molybdenum or zinc would come up as something that really helps them. So in other words, I would actually go backwards. I would figure out, what are they responding to, and then I’d have to put my thinking cap on, or maybe even go do some research and figure out, okay, here’s what’s going on, here’s what they’re responding to. 

What’s the connection? So actually, by doing the testing first, it actually helped educate me on a variety of systems that I was unfamiliar with. And so it helped me connect the dots. And so that was what was so cool about using that methodology, if I could trust it, and I came to trust it. And so I see the same thing with your guys’ technology. And it’s like, it’s just gonna help refine and give you new ideas of what you can do, what’s possible, why things are working in the way that they’re working, perhaps something was missed, perhaps something that was, there’s more information in the way something is working correctly that helps you identify a pathway, a new way of… It’s unbelievable what you can learn once you get validation to what’s going on.

Steve McCardell

Right, yeah.

Jason Prall

And then you can move this field forward even faster.

Steve McCardell

Yep. That’s absolutely the big goal. And what you said really resonated with me, because for example, when you’re talking about the nutrition screen that we use in our software. That’s exactly the way I look at it, I say, okay, so this is not a biochemical test. I’m not testing the levels of your vitamin D, your vitamin C, whatever. What I’m looking at is how the field is responding to that nutrient.

Jason Prall

Right.

Steve McCardell

And once I look at that, I say, well, how does that line up with any of the tests that you named before? How does that line up with their symptomology, How does that line up with other nutrients that I think are off? It becomes a part of a puzzle that you have to put together. It’s not just a, oh I see vitamin D, let me give you more. Well how do you know that they don’t have too much of something already? How do you know it’s not out of balance with something else? How do you know it’s the right form versus the wrong form? So it is a tool that you use in practice, right?

Jason Prall

Yeah. And it becomes a teacher. In fact, I have remember doing this in math. And I was quite good at math, but there was all these problems that I would run into that I couldn’t resolve. And yet I found that especially with the complex math and multi-variable calculus and linear algebra, I would get the answer, and then that answer would help unlock how to get to the answer. So actually, the answer, in a roundabout way taught me how to get there. So it’s an interesting way of going about this, but I could go on and on about this. But I really wanna know how can people, if they’re interested in exploring this type of technology and using this for themselves, where can they go? Do they have to go with a practitioner? Can they go on your website? How can they use this and bring this into their lives?

Steve McCardell

Sure, great question, thank you. So yes, you can go to NES Health, learn more. I mean, a lot of the historic research that I’ve talked about is on there as well as some of our latest stuff. A lot of the later stuff is not on there yet, but we’re starting to, we’ll get it there as we have the data and everything. So there’s research there. Our whole book is available on the pages up front so they can read that. So there’s a lot of information they can gather there. But there’s also, there’s a connection to our practitioners, so they can click on, we have a button called “for clients”, you can look for our practitioner locator there, basically. And that way they can actually look to sign up with somebody and be able to explore. That practitioner can set somebody up actually with a free account where they can download our ebook, but also experience some things, like we have imprinted music, we have films, including our award-winning “Living Matrix”. So there’s a lot of stuff that they can learn and start experiencing bio-energetics. So they connect with a practitioner, they can actually just get in and start exploring that world. and then find out if they wanna move forward with actually doing a scan. They have the opportunity to buy some of our home remedies. There’s different things that they can do in that way, so they can connect with a practitioner. Somebody who actually is a practitioner and looking, they can obviously connect with us also through our website. We’re happy to talk to them about the trial that we offer on our software.

Jason Prall

Beautiful. Steve, this has been so fantastic. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you and I just wanna keep encouraging you guys. Not that you need my encouragement, but I just love what you guys are doing. Both you and Harry and the whole team, to keep moving this forward and to keep this, actually pushing this into the mainstream. I think that’s such an important aspect of this technology and this whole field. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing the wisdom and give my best to Harry as well.

Steve McCardell

Sure will, really appreciate the conversation. Thank you so much.