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Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Welcome back to the Reverse Autoimmune Disease Summit series, everybody. This is of course the fourth iteration of this series, and we’re talking about the autoimmune detox. And my good friend and colleague is joining me today to talk about the wisdom of the ancients, when we start talking about detoxification protocols, and ways of understanding how this should be done in a functional way that matches you. So we’re gonna talk a lot about how the ancients knew how to individualize what we do in response to our bodies’ pleas for help, which we could call autoimmune disease. So Dr. Sarica is a licensed acupuncturist and a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese medicine. She works closely with her patients and wellness clients using principles of Asian medicine, functional medicine, German new medicine, and a whole food nutrition. She’s the author of “The Funky Kitchen,” which is a primer on traditional food preparation methods for enhanced nutrient bioavailability. She’s a coach for Metabolic Balance and a chapter leader for the Weston A. Price Foundation. Dr. Sarica also teaches nutrition in a master’s level coaching program at Pacific College of Health and Science and serves as a board member for the National Association of Nutrition Professionals. She lives with her family in the mountains of Northern Arizona, and you can learn more about her at her website, naturallylivingtoday.com, which we will also have all that information here with her talk. Welcome, Dr. Sarica!
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Thank you so much, Dr. Keesha! So happy to be here with you, and everyone.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, it’s… One of the things I love about talking with you is just because of the resilience, flexibility, and also, wide-angle lens that you view the world through, and the world, of course, including all of us as humans, but the humans on a larger, interdependent web, with all things on this planet. And when I say, I remember when I gave this talk title to my team, they kept trying to put, ’cause I put “Wisdom of the Ancients,” they were like, “You mean ancient cultures? “That doesn’t make any sense.” And I said, “No, I’m talking about all “of the people that have had this wide lens, “who have created paradigms with which to look “at human beings in relationship “to everything that is.” These are usually kind of ancient tribal cultures who lived in a space of interdependence, rather than dominion, correct?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yes, 100%. And that is it. I mean, you know, one of the best books around Chinese medicine is called “The Web That Has No Weaver.”
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Love that book.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yeah, It’s such a great book. And it is, I think that is the perfect title. That could’ve been our subtitle for the presentation, because it is, it’s this interrelationship. What’s going on cosmically, what’s going on, you know, with the physical environment where we live, the weather, the topography, the foods that are in season around us. And then of course, the temperature of the people around us, how they are in relation to us. And the technology, and the impact of that on us. There are just so many factors that we need to be malleable on a regular-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And the time of life we’re in, and our own body composition, and the time of day we’re in, time of night, all of it, right? It all actually is something we’re interrelating with at all times. And our body is adaptive when it is adaptive, and then it becomes maladaptive when it has nothing left to adapt with.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
That’s so true!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
“Okay, empty! “I am out! “I have nothing left to give you!” And that’s usually when the paradigm of standard American medicine kicks in. In Ayurvedic medicine, it’s said that there are these six levels of disease progression, and that we start noticing around level four, where there’s this imbalance that’s happened, first, that’s really mild, and then it will deepen, and then it will expand and spread, right? And then we get to, excuse me, kind of an ICD-10 diagnostic code around five or six. And now we’re tuned in. But there’s all this space that’s happened before that, where the body’s been trying, as a parent, you would use the terminology, it’s been using its indoor voice.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
And sometimes, we need to shout!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, autoimmune disease’s outdoor voice, shouting, “Hey, I’m trying to get your attention!”
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
And that is, you know, that is so it, isn’t it? I mean, in another way of saying it, when I speak with patients, I say, “We get to about 70% on the shenanigans level. “And at about that 70% point is where we start “to have symptom presentation.” And yeah, I mean, when we live in this greater harmony that we’re talking about, and you know, you and I both know, that we have grown up in a culture that does not foster that awareness, doesn’t nourish and honor that navel-gazing, that inner reflection of knowing what our signals are. And really, we’ve been raised in a culture to be told, you don’t know what those are. And you have to go to the doctor to be told, I mean, how many times do we see this, in the disclaimer related to medications, or exercise or whatever, “Check with your doctor-“
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
“Ask your doctor.”
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Exactly!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
“Ask your doctor.”
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It’s reinforced every day. And so, you know, to even begin with that inner understanding. And we have to just honor that that is something that many of us have to do quite a lot of inner work around, to understand that.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I remember seeing the movie, documentary, many, many years ago, that kind of exploded a lot of different ways of thinking, “The Secret.” And I remember coming out of the theater after seeing the part where they said Native American tribes saw ships come across the sea toward them and didn’t recognize them as ships, ’cause they’d never seen them. And I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I remember running in 1998, the Portland marathon, and running past this one part of the Portland marathon where, on the brick walls beside the railroad tracks, there was all this graffiti. And I remember thinking, “If I were a different person “who had knowledge of those symbols, “I would know what those tags said “and what they were trying to convey to different people.” It’s like me and my dogs in the forest.
They’re picking up so much different information than I am, you know? And we can think about that same thing with our bodies. When I learned Ayurveda, and said, “Oh, this line on my face right here “actually means something. “My body’s telling me, it’s giving me information. “Oh, this tongue “is giving me information.” Instead of just quickly flushing the toilet and not paying any attention to what’s in there, “Ooh, ick,” I actually have information from my body. All these things are information data points that we’re not taught are the ways that our body communicates with us. “Oh, my fingernails mean something,” you know? So that’s so fascinating, because I remember learning that and going, “Oh, that’s kinda like the graffiti moment I had,” or the ships sailing across the sea, and I don’t see it because I don’t know ship. So these ancient people documented a different way, because they didn’t have MRIs, and CT scans, and x-rays, and, you know, and they remembered things differently, probably because they didn’t have phones to store everything and refer back to. So there there’s a whole different consciousness. It wasn’t better, it just was a different way of being, and I think probably more attuned to the frame that we live in, yeah?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Well, and that would be how you get your people to survive. And you have to garner that type of information, and you have to pass that on to the people around you for their self-preservation, and of course your own, because it’s a tribal thing. And what’s happened, specifically in this last year, I don’t know, I know I felt like, when March landed last year, and you know, we were all told to stay home for two weeks, how, I felt a sense of relief at, “Oh my gosh, the pace I have been keeping. “Now, the kids and I are gonna be home, “the husband’s gonna be home, “we’re just gonna kind of hunker down here.” And I had been feeling increasingly like the pace of life was really getting out of hand. And then when we had that pause, it was this time to just really, whoa, remember what it feels like to sleep deeply, because you don’t have to be up so early the next morning. So, this level of awareness in many ways was a gift.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Such a gift.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It’s such a gift. And so I feel like we came into this last year, I think overall exhausted. I feel like the tank was pretty low for most people.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Careening, is the word I’ve been using. I was careening through life! Like a pinball!
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
I was just gonna-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Hitting one of the, going, careening!
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
That is so true! And you know, I know this has been such a challenging year in different ways, but we also have had this opportunity for a little bit of self-reflection. It’s been foisted upon us. You know what I feel like? I feel like it’s been a year where we were all playing a fast and hot game of musical chairs, careening from chair to chair, and then the music stopped. And wherever you were when that music stopped, that’s what your situation was that you had to deal with. And for a lot of people, they realized they were in relationships they were not particularly fond of, they were living in places they didn’t like.
I mean, it was a big revelation to people, in a big way. And when you come into that, because you’ve been so busy, and so engaged, and so distracted, and you don’t have this taproot to pull upon to know how to reflect and respond in a way that can be creative, because really, creativity requires a wellspring of energy to work with. I don’t feel that a lot of people knew how to handle themselves, coming into the situation that we found ourselves in. So, you know, I considered this a time of learning how to do things better. And that’s why I’m so happy that you’re doing this again this year, because it’s, I think we all are coming to this discussion so different than we were this time last year.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
You’re talking, you know, a little bit about a time detox, to use the terminology. We could spend a whole hour talking about things we’ve learned from COVID and how it’s impacted our lives. And for sure, not being in an airport for over a year has been such a godsend. And I’m never going back to it again. Just not doing it, you know? And so that, it’s just this really interesting, like you said, reset, and you get to look at a scheduled detoxification protocol for yourself, and that will be individual to you, and unique to you. And what is it? How do you want to spend your time? Making sure that you’re honoring and respecting that. It’s really important.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It is, and with this time, and I know, it’s interesting, because in some ways, it’s been a release, and then in other ways, I look at my husband and me, and we’re busier than ever, in some respects.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Well, you’re homeschooling, aren’t you?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Well, we have been,
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
In a sense.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Up until recently, exactly. The kids just went back. But his work’s been very busy, I’ve been very busy. And so, you know, there’s been that aspect to it. However, I think that in times like this, that creativity, when we just get a little more sleep in our lives, when we get just a little more bandwidth available to us, that the business of really looking after ourselves, around even nutrition, being created that way, and recognizing what it is that we need on a given day, just as you said, a given meal. It’s not just this reactionary, which I’ve always found so fascinating, when I finally, I don’t know, I had this come to me one day. I thought, “My gosh, you know, “the word creation and reaction, “they have the same letters within them. “They’re the same letters, “they’re just configured a little bit differently.” And we have been living in a reaction state. And our best expression is in a creation state.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
That’s a really lovely point. So let’s talk about how to individualize that, because the creative state for each one of us is going to be as different as the way we react. And we have these patterns of how, from our early childhood experiences, you know, we created nervous system pathways that react in certain ways, according to what our meanings and beliefs were, that we created with an undeveloped mind, you know, brain, at these early ages, before the age of 26. And so, we also have, beyond that component, we also have our own metabolic state, dosha state, you know, Chinese medicine, balance. Yeah, so let’s talk about that, because not only does this individualized nervous system reactivity and those pathways, according to your own belief patterns and behaviors impact your individual genetics, and your individual microbiome, and gut health, and, you know, all of that goes together. But then you’re also starting with the frame that you’re in, that is also unique. And these ancient peoples had a way of helping you decipher how to feed, water, and take care of yourself.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
That’s right.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
You actually do have an owner’s manual, you guys. You do. And I just realized, “You guys” is not very politically correct anymore. My apologies.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
That’s okay!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, I forget about these things sometimes. So, all you beings, there actually is this owner’s manual. So let’s talk about that, from, what you’re looking at on the Zoom right now are two different beings’ frames. Keesha and Sarica have very different owner manuals.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
We do! And it’s true! And, you know, from a dosha perspective, there’s another one that we could bring on here, just to have that trifecta. But yes. And you know, even coming from the perspective of five elements, in Chinese medicine, that’s gonna be my gift for your presentation, it’s helping people to see what that looks like. ‘Cause I think folks are pretty accustomed to, well, I don’t want to say all the way across the board, but people are, I think, more familiar with the doshas, you know, the Kapha, Pitta, Vata. But the five element kind of threads that out just a little bit more into five types. And it’s true. I mean, what works for your type is really different than mine.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I’ve hung out with Sarica. She’ll eat a cube of unsalted organic butter in a day as a way of feeding her nervous system, keeping the myelin sheath intact. If I did that…
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
That is such a good way of framing it!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
That’s a really good way to enter into this discussion. If I did that, I would be enormous, enormous, and have fatty liver disease. I mean, there just would no, be no way for my body to manage a cube of butter a day. And yours says, “Can I have three cubes, please?”
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Exactly. No, I’ve been at events where people actually bring me butter, ’cause they know I like it. They’ll have it served at the table for me. How sweet of them!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So let’s talk about that. How does that, what makes that different? Because right now, out in the functional medicine world, there are very famous functional medicine providers saying, “Well, if you eat the right kinds of fats, “you can have as much as you want.” Completely inaccurate, by the way, everyone. Completely accurate.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It is completely inaccurate, and it’s, and it is, it’s this cookie cutter way of attempting to put everyone into that box. And it’s harmful, it really is.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And it’s a way of un-demonizing fat.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yeah, I’m down with that. That’s great, because I’m a child of the ’80s, and the ’70s, you know, we demonized fat.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, saturated fat was demonized. We know that that’s untrue, for a vast portion of the population, but it’s not untrue for me.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Exactly! And thank God you know that about yourself, and have that awareness. The thing that is nice about the time that we live in is that this capacity to really dive in without getting degrees, like you and I have done, to understanding what your constitutional type is, it’s available to people. And you know, there are lots of fun little quizzes to help you sort that out. But then, I think it’s really nice to work with a practitioner who is versed in this, who is, who just, it’s so second nature to them that they, when they see you coming, they’ve already kind of got it in their mind. It’s that, and that’s very helpful when you really want to step into this more. But yeah, I like actually working with the three doshas. So, I’m more Vata. And this is this windy, airy, thin-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Dry.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Dry. How I ended up living at 7,000 feet in Arizona, the driest place in America, I’m sure, is kind of beyond me. And it’s an interesting thing, because from a Chinese medicine perspective, I just turned 50, and you know, the whole perimenopausal thing, in Chinese medicine, we talk about yin and yang. And as a woman ages, and she just goes through the aging process, that nascent yin, the more fluid, female, nourishing aspect, it goes into decline. It’s just part of the normal aging process. And so 15 years ago, this environment felt more comfortable to me than I find it feeling now. At this point in my life, I’m really starting to think Florida looks pretty great.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Well, you and I ought to be trading places.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
We should be trading places, that’s exactly right! I go to these coastal places or the Midwest, and I’m like, “Ah!” I go from feeling like a raisin to a grape. And so, but, as you and I were talking before the program, for a Vata type, to toss someone like me, with a constitution like mine, directly into just a deep cleansing program, that can be tremendously problematic. I mean, flat out dangerous.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So we’re talking about detoxification protocols now, everybody. And what Dr. Sarica is pointing to, that we were saying is, we have to help all beings understand that going in with all guns a-blazing to detox, whether it’s mold, or heavy metals, or your liver, or your colon, or whatever anyone’s telling you you need to detox, there’s so much, there’s so much you have to get ready and look at before you embark on that. So Dr. Sarica, what are those things that need to be evaluated and supported before those things happen?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Right, well, again, it depends on the constitution of the person in front of you. But one of the biggest things is making sure that the person has the yin and the Qi to be able to support those processes. A Vata-type person, that windy, dry, airy type of person, those reserves are not real great. They’re needed for metabolic processes. That’s why I do eat butter like candy bars. I mean, it’s something that really helps to keep me nourished. So to be able to do that type of movement, and to direct that type of activity to doing that sort of clearing, supporting the function of the liver, the limbs, the kidneys, all of that, that really needs to be supplanted before beginning to slowly, slowly, work into those detoxification processes, because the bandwidth just isn’t quite as broad as it would be for someone who’s a Kapha type.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So do you think this is related at all to all of the histamine intolerance and mast cell activation syndrome we’re seeing these days?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
I think that’s a huge part of it.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
She said, leading the witness.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
And you know, that, and what were we doing? I mean, that’s what we were just talking about. I mean, before we got into this year, you couldn’t have moved any faster. Life could not have moved faster. That requires this Qi and yin, and it was all ready. And what were people doing? And I’m not trying to toss concepts under the bus, but I mean, you know, people were doing long intermittent fasting, starting with coffee. And sure, we’re gonna throw some-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
MCT oil in your coffee, and that makes a good breakfast! Which, by the way, for my dosha type, can manage it when balanced, but I can’t manage that.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
No, I can’t, I surely can’t!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I can’t. My body, I get hemorrhoids if I have something like that for breakfast, because it’s too much acidity, too inflammatory. That’s such a good, a good example of this, is the whole bulletproof era, you know?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yeah, ’cause it really was an era.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And it’s still happening.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
And it’s still happening, it is still happening. So we have been at this cranking energy output this way. And then yes, in Chinese medicine, it makes the liver hot because the liver, yes, is going to be processing the caffeine that’s there. It’s going to be processing the hormones that are really having a hard time finding a root in the body, because of all the cellular inflammation that’s going on, because we have had such stressful, sympathetic-dominant lives, where we don’t go into rest and repair. I mean, there are so many factors that were going into play in this. And then yes, when you say to that, “Okay, now we’re gonna do a big old detox on top of this,” and you already have this hot liver that is not pliable and capable of handling the magnitude of change that some of these programs, that honestly, they might’ve been okay 25 years ago. It’s amazing what has happened to the human experience in the last 25 years.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And think about shows like “Mad Men,” where they’re drinking highballs, whiskey, every night, and during the day, during social times. And then you think about doing that today.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yeah!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
It sort of makes my mind go. Smoking cigarettes, drinking whiskey.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
And being so functional!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And being so functional.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
And looking good! It just shows you how threadbare-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, we are now. And the level of toxicity that’s unseen in our air, soil, and water, that our poor bodies are having to filter that wasn’t present in that era.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
I know. I know, and then that doesn’t even get into, of course, the electromagnetic fields.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Well, it does. Those are part of the things in our, you know, in our system, that are there that are unseen, and they’re so high now.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
So high, so high. And before we go any further, I want to make a plug for every person, please just turn off your wifi at night. Just sleep without that. Just, if that’s the only thing, and get your phone away from your head, and turn it off.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And stop wearing the wearables!
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
I know, turn those off!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
You don’t have to know all the things about-
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
No, you don’t! That’s part of that, too, that keeps you engaged with it, doesn’t it? It’s like another thing to stress about.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
It’s data chasing, for information that I’m only getting 20 minutes of REM sleep, that then creates more anxiety. And instead of having that point to, “Well, maybe you should cut out the caffeine, “and stop putting “the pot in your body at night, and the wine,” it’s instead, “I’m only getting 20 minutes of REM sleep, “so what can I take for that?”
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
I know.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
It just doesn’t make any sense.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
No, it’s a prescriptive Band-Aid for the other Band-Aids that we’re using for the emotion, and the energy, and you know, all of these things. And it’s a whack-a-mole game.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
It is whack-a-mole, that’s I call it, too.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yeah, it is.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So back to, then, yin and yang, and we have to have a balance of both, and it’s going to change at any given time of day, and also time of life, and circumstances. And so being able to assess whether or not, let’s say you do discover, so one of the things I talk about, and I know this is also in line with what, the way that you practice, Dr. Sarica, is that it’s always critical mass. There’s never one thing that sets your body out of balance, ever, ever, ever. There is no smoking gun.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
No, it’s not…
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
It’s not Epstein-Barr virus, everybody. It doesn’t matter how many books are sold that say it is the Epstein-Barr virus. It’s not. That is a part of it, right? And it’s not COVID, and it’s not, We’re 45% viruses! And you know, they are the important, what, fatty envelope that tells us how to adapt in our environment, and how the environment should adapt with us. It’s just an exchange of information, these viruses. They’re so important, right?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
They’re so important. And the thing that I really have come to appreciate is how the exosomes, the viral matter, is really a response within us. That’s what it is. And it’s not that it is something to inherently be afraid of. And I say that, I’m not telling people to go run willy-nilly and be insane with your health, at all. I really, the longer, the more years I’m in practice, more the truth of the terrain theory and what we show up to each day as is the most important thing. That really is it. We have evolved to, within us, I mean, when we look at the genetic matter of the microbiome within and on us, that genetic matter outnumbers our human cells by about eight to one or so. So we are a walking, talking horse, carrying all of this information.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Trojan horses, that’s all we are. We’re Trojan horses! And all the little microbes inside of us are using us as the Trojan horse.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Like a Trojan horse, that’s exactly it! You know, they were here before us, they were here, they’ll be here after us. And they are part of who and what we are, internally and externally. And they are part of our expression of healing when something has happened, whether it’s been emotionally, or it’s been something physical. And to move away from this languaging of fear of invasion, and that there is something inherently wrong with me, rather, to reframe that, because you’re still looking at the same body of information, you’re just reframing it, to recognizing, what is the message that my body, like you were saying earlier, you know, what is the message here, using the outside voice at this time, to say, “I need a shift here”? And what is, where’s it showing up on my body? What’s that trying to tell me? What is the thing that I have not been honoring in the message coming to me? So, it is something that requires that we don’t continue to Band-Aid it with the things that are increasingly on the menu, whether it’s the wine, or the pot, or the caffeine, or, there are just so many ways. You know, of course-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Sugar.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Drugs. Yes, sugar, over-the-counter painkillers, all of these things, rather than running toward these things when we begin to have a little discomfort. I tell you, as I really began to embrace this, when a symptom comes up now, it has been such a mental shift of celebrating in awareness, and helping to support my body to clear what that is, and then helping my patients to see that in themselves, too. Because what that does is that takes us out of fear. It takes us out of fear. It puts us into a space of recognizing, actually, I’m working in harmony with the message that’s being sent here, so I can help to support, get through this healing process, so I can, I don’t need to continue to go through this process any longer, and get into greater vitality.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And we’re not talking about blaming. That’s, when you’re in that developmental state as a child, you are being told if you’re good or bad. If you’re growing up with siblings, there is somebody to blame. Someone’s in trouble, you know? And so we can get kind of stuck in that very black and white thinking. So, I’ve just spent the last week on ice with my back. And when it went out, I started asking questions like, “Thank you, back.” I’m hurting, but at the same time, I can hold, “Okay, so what’s going on?” And it took me about five days to really understand what it was trying to tell me. “Oh, this Zoom life that you’re leading “and not getting up in between patients “is not good for me.” So, you know, yesterday, now this is the first interview I’ve done on this summit series. Everyone can maybe notice there’s a different background, because now, I have a standing treadmill desk. And just one day at this desk yesterday, and no more back pain. And my body is saying, “Thank you for getting the message!” It’s important to keep with it, too.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yeah, well, that’s the thing. Every day is, and every, I mean, just this morning, for whatever reason, coming back to me, when I first started waking up, I was like, “Oh my gosh, I want to keep sleeping. “I’m having a good dream.” And then about five minutes later, I was like, “Okay, I’m ready to get up.” It was amazing, the shift that happened while I’m still lying in bed, within a five-minute period. And 20 minutes later, I was totally active and engaged with the morning. It’s amazing how dynamic we are through a day. So we do, we have to have this awareness, where we stay just gently alert what it is that we’re needing. And I will say to anyone who knows Dr. Keesha, she needs to walk. And she’s about the only person I know who has totally walked well more than me. I mean, she can walk. And so for her, to take on this newly sedentary lifestyle, more or less, you know, working with patients this way, that’s not what your body is calling for, and I love-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Well, it wasn’t sedentary. I was walking two hours every single morning.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Exactly! But sedentary-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Then, sitting still for five hours at a time. So even when somebody wouldn’t identify themselves as sedentary, the reason I’m making the distinction is because if you’re listening, and you’re going, “Well, I work out two hours a day,” that if you’re sitting for five hours at a time, your body says you’re sedentary! And in that five-hour period, you are! And so it’s learning to adapt whatever that workout is, or that movement that you’re doing to be in concert with what this frame is requesting. And so, yeah, I think that’s important, because, I mean, I do adrenal and hormone testing. When people ask me, “How much should I exercise and what kind?”, I say, “Well, let’s ask your body.” ‘Cause if you’re doing CrossFit, and you’re, which a lot of people seem to love, and you have nothing in your adrenal tank-
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
You will be injured soon!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
You will be injured! Perfect prescription for injury.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Exactly! And that is, didn’t you see that, again, before this last year? It was like, I could about set my clock on every, you know, middle-aged person I saw who was going into CrossFit. It was like, “Okay, let me, “let’s just see how long it’s gonna take.” And I’m not, I wouldn’t say that to them, I would just kind of watch it, because it’s exactly that. There just wasn’t the reserve for that type of-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Or every spring, when gardening season started, or every, you know? Every first snow.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Exactly!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Being able to work in concert with the system is really important.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It’s very important, yes. And you know, this has, and I want to just say, this has been a year where I think people have been a lot more sedentary. And again, I think that’s good at the beginning, but then you’ve got to get up and get moving, to the limit that’s appropriate for you.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So I read this thing called creep. Have you heard of this term before, in terms of musculoskeleture, musculoskeletal system? When I was researching, “Okay, what’s happening?” Because in the evening, I’m fine, after a chiropractor works on me, and I get in my detox bath, and I get up in the morning, and I’m great. I go for my walk, I’m still fine. And then at lunchtime, at one, when I have sat there from nine to one, I’m bent over at a 45-degree angle, and I can’t get myself back up, and I’m hurting, and it just gets worse and worse as the day progresses. So I started looking that up, that timing and everything, and there’s this thing called creep. And it happens as your back muscles, because you are walking, and hiking, and working out, your back muscles are elongating. But because of sitting at the computer, the front side is contracting. So then it’s harder to get that to spring back, as you said, middle-aged people that are entering into these places, as that nourishing, moisturizing yin is starting to diminish.
Watch your vaginal lubrication, ladies, it’s also going on inside the rest of your systems. And that creep would create this contracture around all of that. And so there’s something called a yoga wheel that a friend told me about that’s coming today. And I put five minutes between all my patients now, and I’m just gonna lay myself across that wheel. And they talk about pumping your system a bit, before you get up out of your chair after you’ve been sitting, that you allow for some kind of pumping fluid, lymphatic, you know, all of that gets kind of circulated really well. I think that’s a really good idea. But I didn’t know there was a term called creep. I just thought I’d share that with everyone.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yeah, I think that’s great! It’s nice to have that, because it helps you to compartmentalize, “Okay, that’s what’s going on.” You have a term for it. And you know, what is happening also, of course, when we’re seated all day like this is this contracture that’s happening in the psoas muscles. When you see these, and the psoas muscles, from a psychosomatic perspective, they really carry a lot of emotion for us. And that is what we do. When we have been afraid, or if we are feeling sick, we go into a contracted psoas position.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Or your dad dies.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Or your dad dies.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
That’s why all this popped, right? That was the critical mass part of, everything was probably at the very edge, and then that. And so that’s what I mean, there’s no smoking gun, everybody. There’s this, there’s the feather that just made the whole thing tip!
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
That’s exactly it! And I love that you just strung those pearls, because we all have those experiences, don’t we? Where we’re just right there at the precipice, and it’s the one little bit, and then that helps it. And then the body says, “I can’t, I can’t. “You’re gonna have to just go lay down now, “and just take care of me the way “that I’ve been really trying to get your attention on.” And it’s, so, when we are in that contracted space that way, my goodness, it is so important when we stand upright that we really allow those shoulders to come down the back, and really let that back body engage for us, and let that natural S curve show up on the back side of us. This hunching forward, you know, I live in a town where people walk a lot. And I will see folks that, you just see this, they’ve just been in this constant contracture of the psoas muscle. And now they are bent forward, like this, when they’re walking, you know?
And then they’re having to do this with their necks and the head. And it just, it just looks so darn painful. So the sooner we can honor that that psoas muscle, for us to feel safe and secure in our body, that needs to shine brightly for us. It also needs to have a time of repose and recovery. And you know, when we’re sleeping, oftentimes, we’ll sleep on our sides, a little bit tucked up that way, so that’s a great time for that. But remember, staying in that contracted position, being seated for seven, eight hours, as our kids have been, you know, in online schooling, oh gosh, and then certainly, us in all of our Zoom meetings and whatnot, you have got to get up and let that shine brightly. We’ve got to counteract that. Because at a psychosomatic level, what that also does, we’re like a little clam then, right? Energetically, it’s like we shut down. We need to remember to open.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
So what are some ways, I don’t know if you remember when I read Dr. Sarica’s bio, she’s an acupuncturist. So, in Ayurvedic medicine, we call these marma points, but you know, all the places where a nerve cross, the 72,000 points in the body, right? These wonderful nervous system pathways that innervate everything. And so are there points that people can work with physically on their own that don’t have to be needled?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yeah!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
That can provide some relief?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
For sure. I think one of the nicest things we can do for ourselves is that a lot of the yin channels, so these kind of more feminine aspects, this deeper, nourishing energy, they are at the feet. And so massaging the feet, the bottom of the feet, is really a delicious, nourishing thing we can do for ourselves. Because I am going to, I come, and I know, I’ve got a little bit of internal prejudice, because I am so Vata, but I really do tend to come from the perspective that most people are hanging out on the side of the gas tank a little bit more empty than it is full. And so even if a person is more of a Kapha type, I think that we all could use a little more nurturing and nourishment. And one of the things that is, think of that. When someone massages your feet with warm oil, I mean, between having the feet massaged that way and your head rubbed, I mean, these are delicious things. Now, the head rubbing, we can do that ourselves, too. It’s a wonderful thing to do. I use, I’ll use a little tool for that, you know, that has some fingers on it that I’ll put into a plastic bag. And there’s so many acupuncture points that are on the scalp. So we can just gently massage those.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And this can stimulate lymphatic drainage up here, too.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It’s fabulous!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
For your brain, yeah.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It’s so good, and you’ll be so surprised at what it does for your complexion! We don’t realize how much tension we hold in our scalp. I mean, we really hold a lot up here. So that type of massage of the head. And then yes, warm oil, maybe an essential oil that’s appropriate more for your constitution. You know, maybe if it’s summertime, something a little bit more cooling, like a peppermint, if it’s wintertime, maybe a little drop of clove, maybe a little ginger, something like that, and just massaging the bottom of the feet. There is a, that’s where the kidney, and of course, when we were talking about people being tapped out, it’s, we often think, “Oh my gosh, “your kidney adrenal system is tapped out!” That’s where the kidney channel begins, is right there at the ball of the foot. And so to just massage through that area, release places of stagnation, and you’ll feel it, in little crystals in the feet, and just gently break those up.
Because what I see with Chinese medicine, and I know Ayurveda is similar, is that, we’ve been talking about depletion, depletion, depletion, well, similar to a river, if there are places where it has been dammed, it’s not that the rest of the river is not replete, it’s just stuck somewhere. And once that dam is open, then that can flow. Yeah, we just let it go. And that’s how we are, too. And so these places in our body where we feel this stagnation, if we can gently love on them and allow them to move, that can allow a greater flow of the energy and the yin nourishment that is within the body. And so top and bottom are really great places to work on, without thinking, “Oh my gosh, “am I hitting the acupuncture point just right?” But what you could do that would be very nice would be with that oil, if you were to come up into the hollow of the ankle right there, on the inner portion, you’re gonna be working with a very important point related to the kidney, and on the exterior portion, you’re gonna be working with a very important point related to the urinary bladder, which will have impact on the lower back, which is nice.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah. So, I’ve had a lot of back work in the last month, and my massage therapist told me about, and so I’m not here to promote product or anything, but, and I’m not even gonna know the name of these, but I don’t know if you’ve heard about them, toe socks that have some of those reflexology points on the bottom of them. So as you’re walking around your house, ’cause we don’t really need to wear shoes in our houses, probably, we could put those little toe socks on that have the little. And I haven’t gone looking for them yet, I need to do it. Our conversations reminded me of what he said to me. And so that seems like that might be a good idea, yeah?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
I think that’s a lovely thing. It’s wonderful, just that little stimulation that way. You might want to start on the carpet, because it gets kind of intense. And to your point about that, too, you know, because we do spend so much time seated, and that’s really what we do in the West. We’re not people who sit on the ground, cross-legged, or anything like that. So these muscles on the backside of our body, from our feet, to our calves, to our hamstrings, these can become quite contracted, ’cause they’re in that 90-degree position. And that fascial line that runs the backside of the body that way can become very tense. And that can of course yank on the spaces of the lower back, at the vertebrae right there. So one of the really simple, but it’s gonna be painful for a lot of people, things that you can do is to sit down on the ground in a kneeled position, but with your toes tucked under you, to stretch out your foot. So I think when most people sit, if they can get down into that position, they’ll sit with their toes tucked backwards. What I’m talking is making them this way, so that you’re resting on your toes. And what you’ll begin to do is begin to open up that fascia in the feet there. Even to do that for 10 seconds, it is real, you will be amazed at how that begins to give you more freedom in your back body. So, if these-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Doing the same thing with your hands, right? Leaning forward with having them back this way. That always was surprising to me. It’s like, “Ooh! “I need to do this more.”
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Exactly, exactly! And that’s exactly what this really comes down to, is looking at what your patterns are of how you generally hold yourself, and then-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Doing a counterpoint,
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Yep, yep. Last night, I was doing a quick little online barre3 class, and they started working with foam rollers. And we were doing a plank with our shins on the foam roller, and kind of rolling back. And I thought, “Oh my Lord, I am gonna lose my mind. “This is so uncomfortable on this fascia, “over my bones here.” And I thought, “I need to do this more, “because this is this uncomfortable! “It means my body needs me to do this again.”
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And these are all detoxification things, everyone. This isn’t taking a ton of supplements, it’s not, you know, it’s not doing IV chelation. These are detoxification points of your body, the places, like Dr. Sarica said, that are dammed up, that have stagnation, in the words of Chinese medicine, that needed to be released, and so that your Qi can flow, your life force energy.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It’s huge. And the other, just these simple things. In the Northern hemisphere, we have moved into the Spring Equinox, just beyond it. And so our days are getting longer. We are moving into a season of sunshine, and we are these creatures of the solar system. And there is a theory that actually, we are designed to get most of our nutrition from the sun, and that food is such a secondary component of what nourishes the human body. And we were already a lot that spent way too much time indoors, and then this year, we were told to stay in all the time. You have to get out in the sun, without sunglasses. Let your brain, let your pineal gland interface directly through your eyes with this incredible star of our solar system. And be out without sunscreen, without a hat. And I’m not saying be out there all day, be out there for 10 minutes.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
And not at one o’clock in the afternoon, you know?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
The morning sun, all of this, we need that. And if you have darker skin, then you need it more.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
This is sunbathing in a way that isn’t about making you tan. This is what it was meant to do. This is a detoxification bath and a rejuvenation bath. Forest bathing is the same idea. So if you can get out in the sun and the forest and have your feet on that ground, so good.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It’s so good.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, I interviewed Dr. Gerald Pollack for the series, and anyone that listened to Dr. Jerry’s interview will know what we just described as why that’s health promoting, is it’s creating structured water in your body. That’s why your mood lifts, that’s why your little microbiota say, “Well, maybe I don’t need sugar! “Okay, I’m good now!”
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
And it is, it is! You let your body start talking to you. But don’t shy away from those messages! Then, what do we do? Our phone pings at us, and we don’t pay attention. We have so many distractions we’ve been entrained to. So give yourself that space to just-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Sometimes, you’ll get asked by your body for an Oreo cookie, or wine, or a joint, or shopping a lot, or gambling, or sex, or. This request that we’re pointing to is something quite different than, “Oh, I’m trying to numb out “from an uncomfortable feeling.” It’s the actual request of the system, rather than the ego trying to run away from a painful irritant. Those are different.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Really different. And you know, I remember when, because I had to teach myself these things, and I’m still learning. And when, I remember when I would crave something, like a hamburger, which, hamburgers can be very nourishing, but, or fries, or whatever, potato chips.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yours is salty, I gave the sweet examples.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Exactly! And in America, it tends to be one or the other!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
One or the other!
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
You know you’re dealing with someone from another country when they say, “Oh, bitter.” I’m like, “What? “Talk to me! “Let me hear, let me hear-“
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Craving curry, yeah.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
So, you know, that’s where you say, “Okay, look, “I know that those Ruffles potato chips, “they really are rough on my system. “So what is it in the Ruffles potato chip “that I’m looking for? “And where can I find that in a different place, “that actually will nourish me? “What am I looking for there on that nourishment?” So that we learn to honor what those requests are, but to reframe it into a framework that is actually beneficial for us, rather than something that’s going to be full of various excitotoxins and other things that are gonna be challenging to our system.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I feel like we could go forever, but we’ve, we’ve spent a whole hour talking about this. I know we need to wrap it up, in respect of your time and our viewers’ time. What in, you know, when we think about, again, the title of, “What the Ancients Used,” to know about proper detoxification for each individual, what did we not talk about that you think needs to round this out or complete it?
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
You know, what we didn’t really hit on was sleep. And again, I think that’s another one that is… Just, people, I don’t think folks recognize how rough sleep is these days. From the light pollution, to of course these electromagnetic fields, and the pinging that comes from them.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
We have a talk on EMFs, and we have a talk on sleep.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Oh, good! Okay, excellent. So folks, be aware of these things, because, and then listen to it a second time, what is being stated there, because that is where your body does such tremendous detoxification. And it has impact the next day on the types of foods you’re gonna be drawn to eating, and the behaviors you’re going to be drawn to doing. And so really sleep well.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
I have a personal question that I’m gonna wind up with, that I’m gonna end with. When I was talking about acupuncture earlier, since I’m talking to my favorite acupuncturist, why is it that I hate acupuncture? That when I get needled, no matter what it is, I get this, electricity. I don’t like TENS units, either.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
No, and… That appeals to some people, and then there are others that, they don’t like that type of acupuncture. And I am in your camp. I don’t like that kind of acupuncture either, and so I, that’s not how I practice. I practice working with a millimeter insertion, generally. And so you’re not getting into what is called this deqi, which is that kind of more electric sensation.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Oh, that’s good to know, okay.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Talking about, and it’s very interesting, because they’ve done some research around this very superficial Japanese-style needling, which is what I do, where that, the message pathway through this other network that is so superficial is actually faster to the brain than that deqi sensation. That’s calling on a totally different part of the body, and a different communication route to the brain that way. So it depends on finding the practitioner whose style and personality you like to work with. And there’s-
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
That makes complete sense. What a marvelous answer to something that’s puzzled me for over a decade. Thank you so much!
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Gotta get you a good Japanese-style practitioner!
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, okay! That makes so much sense. I’m very intolerant of the electrical thing, so.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Me too.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Don’t like it!
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
It’s a wonder I made it through four years of school that way, because that’s how we were taught! And I almost dropped out of school, because I’m like, “I really don’t like this.” And I thankfully found someone very early on who I was able to practice with.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Hmm, beautiful. Thank you, Dr. Sarica. I so appreciate you spending this time to even share a fraction of your wisdom with us on this subject. It’s so important.
Sarica Cernohous, L.Ac.
Thank you, thank you so much. Everyone, just take good care. I’m excited for you to check out the five elements.
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP-FNP-C, AAP, IFM-C
Yeah, we will have all of that, and your free gift, too. All right, everybody, until next time, be well.
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