Vagal Nerve Reset and the Use of PEMF

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks 

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, so we are both practitioners who use PEMF with patients in our day-to-day practice. So that kind of gives us a cool perspective, but before we talk about that, I’m very curious in how you became involved with PEMF therapy and how you learned about it, because it’s one of those, that it’s still not really widely known in the public, is it?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Right, no, that is so true. But people are finding out about it more and more. So I came across it actually through a different device called the Hackett. So I’ve owned into my own practice for the last going on 10 years now. And when I started as a practitioner, I knew that I wanted to have that one-on-one with my clients. But I also knew that I couldn’t just do everything by myself. It’s not just about offering a supplement or changing their diet. The way that our day and age is, sometimes we need that extra boost of something to create the body to be able to do what it’s designed to do. And so what I was looking at starting my wellness center, I was looking at devices that could really be utilized for everyone. And at the time, I needed to have the biggest umbrella, the biggest bang for the buck when I started. And so I started out with the Hackett, which is a full body detox machine that has the Hugo attached to it, which is the PEMF. But as time has gone on love the device. We found that the Hugo, the PEMF that we have is even more supportive for the body in variations of clients different ailments that people have. They don’t just need to be in the Hackett for the detoxification purposes, but we use it daily in and out, separate from that machine now. So that’s been very eye-opening and very cool to see.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Very cool, okay. So you made your way and found PEMF after starting off with other wellness devices and looking to support people with detox and health, which interestingly enough, PEMF therapy also does help facilitate detoxification in the body.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

That’s exactly right.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, yeah. So that’s one of the things I always find myself telling patients about in the beginning when we start is, of course, when we do high intensity PEMF therapy, you will feel it working in the body, but what to expect afterwards can sometimes involve detoxification and you have to be really well hydrated. So very cool. And so how long you been actually using the PEMF therapy in your clinic?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

I have been using it for the last five years. And now it’s truly one of those puzzle pieces that I can’t be without. I mean, if I were to dissolve my entire practice, it would be one of those pieces that come with me. I have a couple of those gems and that is one of them, just because it enhances everything. You’ve got cellular enhancement, you’ve got the recovery, you’ve got increasing metabolism. I mean, it really does so much.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, yeah. I find that to be the case as well. I think it’s cool how you described looking for things that provide a lot of value now when you may not be able to be there in person. And so, my background is more in acupuncture, and of course we have to be there present with the patient to place needles and remove.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Absolutely.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

But when I started to add in PEMF therapy, I was able to do more for folks and actually help more people by combining the two treatments and have something that could be a little less more unattended.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Right. Well, and that’s the one thing I do love about it, is because it can be used in conjunction with everything. There’s not anything, whether it’s a detoxification or whether it is for that electrical charge that restimulation of the cells. Whether it’s for someone, particularly for me, I work a lot with the nervous system. So if I can use that device specifically to calm the vagus nervous system down, I can find that the responses to my clients, different ailments are truly incredible. I mean, it enhances it so much, but the key piece, you said this just a second ago is the hydration piece.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

They’ve got to be hydrated.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Indeed, yeah.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

I have to tell you a quick, funny story. It’s not really funny, but I had an individual come in and she just, she was like, “I’ve just not been feeling well, I want to do the Hugo, “the PEMF mat.” And I said, “No problem.” And I asked her a couple of little questions. I mean, what I failed to ask her is what did she do last night? Because what happened is she got on the PEMF mat and it created that electrical charge. It started to recirculate the lymphatic system calming the nervous system down. And she actually left here feeling rather ill. And I thought, what did I wrong? What happened? She had been at a major party the night before, and it just recirculated all of those toxins. And we weren’t prepared. So lesson learned I had to learn that lesson a little bit the hard way of okay, it’s doing way more than we see at that surface level. It’s going much deeper than that.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right, right, yeah. It definitely does a lot of deeper work in the body during, but also after.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

But it was that detox and her body wasn’t prepared for that. That hydration piece came into play.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right, so now everybody is told, make sure you drink water, we tell them multiple times. They probably get sick of it, but we got to–

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

So much, yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah. So now, do you also use PEMF therapy yourself at all?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Oh, absolutely. I mean, the reality is our Hugo mat is a 12-minute session. There’s many different variations of PEMF out there, but ours specifically, it’s so convenient. It’s so easy. In fact, every single one of my staff members we use it on a pretty much day-to-day basis that we’re in the office, and for variations of reasons. I mean, it doesn’t have to be for anything other than, for me when I get on it, I get that energetic charge. I feel amazing. Other people get on it and their entire system just calms right down and they feel more of that Zen state. So it does increase, I don’t know. I love it, yes.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, I think it’s one of those very unique things. It’s almost hard to describe. People just have to come and sort of experience it to feel what it’s like. And of course with the device, like the Hugo, it’s something that’s actually strong enough to get your muscles to jump and move without you actually making that movement happen. So that’s always really interesting and fascinating to see the areas that are more responsive in the patient. Because oftentimes they might be there wanting to work on a particular thing, but then the magnetic field therapy reveals other areas of distress or inflammation. Did you ever encounter that at all?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yes, actually it happens nine times out of 10, where they come in and they’ve got some back pain or they’ve got something else going on, but it always, nine times out of 10, it goes to their stomach. That’s what I feel. They feel it in their liver or they feel it in their large intestine or small intestine. And they’re like, why is it over here when I feel pain? Mentally I have pain in my right arm. Why am I feeling this in my stomach? And explaining to them that there is some dysregulation going on there. We call it our scavenger, it’s scavenger.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right. .

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

It’s going through the body looking for where there is disruption, where there is inflammation, and it’s going to go there before it goes to where we mentally feel that it needs to go to sometimes.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right. That’s actually one of the things I so love about it, is you get the opportunity to work on the exact thing or issue that you want to give treatment to, but then you can also do full body treatment, which just kind of takes care of everything.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Everything.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

At once, right?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Absolutely.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

It’s almost like insurance, you’re kind of staying ahead. You’re not waiting for things to break down. You’re just regularly doing this self care that works down to the cellular level. So all of your tissues benefit and you’re able to function and perform more closer to peak level.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Absolutely. Because they feel that pulse, they feel it wherever they feel it, but then they get up and they’re like, oh gosh, my arm doesn’t hurt like it did, my knee doesn’t hurt like it did, or I don’t have the leg pain that I had or whatever it is, whatever that ailment was. But during the session, that’s not where they felt the pulse.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, right.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

That’s what’s so great about it, is because it is covering the entire body.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, yeah. And we have the same thing happen in our office. Me and my staff here will often try to get in on the table between folks or like

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yes, exactly.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

But yeah, I mean, it really, it makes such a difference, it helps us to maintain energy. And I know, like for instance, another thing is every time that do PEMF therapy I will sleep better. And not only do I know that from how I feel, but from my tracking. I get to see my numbers. And just about every time I get better, deeper sleep. I don’t wake up as much. My HRB is better. So it’s just interesting to see all these other ancillary effects that you may not really expect.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Well, yeah, absolutely. And I do chalk that up, going back to the nervous system. Being able to be in the parasympathetic nervous state or allowing for the body to drop down into that state rather than being in the sympathetic fight or flight response. Your HRV is going to come down, your sleep is going to improve. Your energy is going to be enhanced. So, yeah.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

And then everything else just kind of will fall in line.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

It just falls into suit, yeah. That’s the beautiful thing. Is it all just falls into suit. When the body is essentially vibrating, if you will, in the right patterns, everything is going to just kind of follow that vibration out, which is awesome.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

And we need enough charge to make it happen. And so when we don’t have that, then we can do certain things like improved diet, and exercise, and meditate, but PEMF therapy is a more novel way to make it happen, to use technology, to facilitate it. And I think one of the key messages for folks that are watching this is to understand that this is available and accessible. It’s out there. You can go and experience PEMF therapy with a practitioner like yourself and ultimately, even have your own device to be able to use at home regularly. One of the things that Dr. Paula has written about a lot is how household should have this. And I find myself saying that a lot to people, use it for your problems, but use it to keep the problems away as well. And everyone can benefit.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Absolutely, that prevention aspect of it. And the reality is we have stressors every single day. We cannot get away from them. Whether it’s radiation, whether it’s environmental, or whether it’s inner relationships, it doesn’t matter. Our bodies are stressed from something. And so being able to down regulate that stress and allow for the body to be at its optimal level is key. And I agree with that. If you have it in your home and are able to use it every day, I mean, you’re so many steps ahead. And even if you can’t, even if you can’t have one in your home, if you can find a practitioner and do it once a week. I have a great story actually. This woman, her body wasn’t making neutrophils. She had had a history of cancer. She was in remission, but her body just wasn’t making the white blood cells. And she had read online about PEMF. And so she was in our area, came in, was doing PEMF twice a week. That’s the time that she could allow herself to be in here was twice a week. And she had been on all the medications to try to get these neutrophils going and things just weren’t working right. Being on the mat twice a week for less than a month, her neutrophils were perfect levels.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Wow.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Her doctor took her off all meds and were like, “What in the world is going on? “This is amazing.” When you see those success stories like that, it’s just like, this is why we do what we do. She’s living a better, more fulfilled life and not having to worry about the fact that her immune system has been disrupted. That just by adding that one piece helps so much.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, yeah. And for most people, like you already talked about, it’ll be a relatively meditative experience and you can relax, you can let that nervous system shift and be more into the parasympathetic where the feeling can actually take place. Life is a process of dealing with all this stress, and then hopefully, letting go of most, if not all of it, but I mean, especially these days more than ever, it seems like the sources of stress are just increasing. I often think about our mobile devices and how they were supposed to make life easier.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

But , so.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

I mean, they do make life easier in so many regards, but they have literally catapulted the intensity of everything else.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, yeah. And whoever would’ve thought. And so to have a tool that can really help to undo some of the stress we incur from that is great.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, yeah.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

So I’m also curious about, are there other therapies that you use in your office? It sounds like the PEMF is pretty much something that you’re utilizing daily. What other kind of things do you do to help patients?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Well, we do actually quite a few things, but one of the other ones I actually love is called a bio charger, which also–

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Okay, I’ve heard of that.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

It has a PEMF aspect to it. So it uses Tesla, PEMF, photon, and rife frequencies at a high voltage charge. And so with the Hugo, people feel the pulsing of the PEMF. On this machine, you actually sit in front of it and you’re subjected to that high voltage energy. So that’s also a great way to increase the cellular charge of the body. I talked about the Hackett. I think the other, I mean, I have a lot of different therapies, but the FLOWpresso is probably next to one of my favorite that we have here. And the FLOWpresso uses a light compression with a farm fared heat to move the lymph of the body.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Oh, okay.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

So you’re moving that stagnant energy. But I love to use it in combination with the PEMF. I put people on the PEMF first for that cellular recharge. And then I put them in the FLOWpresso to get that stagnation aspect moving. And that combination has been incredibly beneficial.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Okay, fascinating. So it’s like really sort of facilitating that internal movement of the body.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Absolutely, because that’s where everything, that’s where all the toxic loads are stored. They get stored in our joints, in our brain, in our organs and our tissues, everywhere. So you get that movement happening while the body is supported. So that PEMF creates that support for the body before they go into this state. And they literally people come out and are just like, “What happened to me? “Absolutely feel incredible.”

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, wow. Wow. Sometimes I joke around that getting PEMF, especially the high intensity you feel it, the closest you can get to a power nap.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I laid on there yesterday and I just was like, oh my gosh, just the vibration of it alone. And it was just in this specific, so not always is it in a cycle, but yesterday I just happened to fill this little cycle of it and it was all digestion and I literally was like, “No, it stopped.” And I was like, please keep going. It felt so good. Yeah.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah. Definitely, we have run some pretty long sessions as well, and yeah, it’s marvelous. It’s very unique, so.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

It’s very unique. That’s what I do love about it.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah. Part of our role is to educate people about these things, because they might be coming in looking for a specific answer to a question, or a specific problem that they have an idea how it needs to be treated. But when we expose them to this new way of being able to actually work on themselves, I think that opens a lot of doors for folks. And so for people who have not been able to try PEMF therapy, certainly, I recommend going online and finding someone you could try this with.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, because you talked about sleep earlier, and oftentimes, when my clients come in, we have a conversation about where their internal battery is. Because our cell phone battery gets to 20% and we start to panic. We have to plug it in. But when our internal battery gets down to 20%, we push harder. We can fight through. But what that’s doing inside is so the opposite effect of what we needed to be doing. We’re creating all the free radical damage, we’re creating the lack of sleep, the high HRV, all those elements that we don’t want to have happen are happening. And so doing the PEMF is such a great way to increase that cellular charge up to, it’s not going to be 100% necessarily with one time, but you’re going to get that increased cellular charge. So it’s like I said, I often tell people it’s like charging your phone in. We got to charge ourselves in too. We have to do that because if we don’t, we’re going to find ourselves at zero and then we’re going to be reactive. And this is not about reactive.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

When I first heard that analogy about the cell phone and charging, hey, we charge our devices. We need to charge ourselves. I didn’t really love that analogy at first, but the more I pondered on it, it’s really the one that makes the most sense.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

It’s the one that everybody can connect with. That’s what I find. It’s not the best analogy out there, but it’s the one that we all are like, oh yeah, I do know when my battery gets down and we’re like, I got to find a charger to plug this thing in.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right, yeah, yeah. You got to close all those apps and clean everything and shut it down. Like bring power down every now and then.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

But if you think about the human body, that’s changing your diet, that’s making sure you’re getting enough hydration, that’s making sure you’re moving. That’s making sure that you’re not putting tons of chemicals on your body. That’s making sure that your stressors are balanced. It’s the same, but very different, if you will.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

So you mentioned that you use the PEMF therapy a lot for detoxification. And are there any other particular symptoms, like if somebody comes in with a specific problem that you’re like, oh yeah, we definitely need to do PEMF for that?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah. Outside of detoxification in my community, I’m in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. So we have extreme athletes around here. And then we also have older generations that are out doing the extreme things that maybe they shouldn’t be. So people will come in and they’re like, “Do you have any CBD oil? Because I think I sprained my arm.” I’m like, “Let’s actually put you on the mat.” So I think a lot more of recovery, I also have a lot of young athletes that come in that use the PEMF. So I would say more on the athletic realm.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right, makes sense.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Separate from the detox realm.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, yeah. Because musculoskeletal pain of course is a huge problem and chronic pain as well. And PEMF therapy is really good for that because, of course, like you’ve been saying our charge diminishes and if you have an injury, everything’s operating with less charge. So then if you can deliver the charge, you’re really optimizing the ability to heal and quicken the healing

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Exactly, yeah.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

It’s funny, one thing that comes up sometimes in conversation with patients when we’re educating them about PEMF, we’ll tell them like hey, for instance, the PEMF therapy been FDA approved for something like bone healing. I think that the first FDA clearance for PEMF was for non-union fractured healing. And it’s kind of like, okay, you wait for the bone to not heal. And then all right, now we’re going to do PEMF therapy on it. So we know that it will heal, but you could totally have just done the PEMF therapy from the beginning, prevented it from becoming a non-union, quicken the healing. So hopefully that’s the direction we’re heading in.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, yeah. I like to think of all the things that I do have here as prevention, as a preventative source of support versus waiting until it’s a reaction. So because if we do start it, they come in and they’re like, I’ve got a broken leg, I’ve got this, I’ve got that. Let’s start that process right now. Because that’s just going to speed everything up for the support that the body needs. The beautiful thing is yeah, they’re on the mat for their leg for instance. But again, going back to, we’re still supporting them at that cellular level for digestion, for parasympathetic nervous system, for any and everything else that they may need that they just don’t quite connect the dots. So it’s supporting everything.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, and I think one of the things we didn’t specifically discuss is part of the reason that happens is because of blood circulation.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Correct.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

You’re getting blood circulating throughout the body, much more easily and freely. And so then just like with sleep, with blood flow, you start to get this big cascade of positive changes.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Right, right, yeah.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

The older we get the harder it is to experience that.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

That’s exactly right. And that’s why I love so much to add it to the FLOWpresso. Is because of that vascular change, that circulatory aspect of it. But yes, that is exactly why that happens.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

So you mentioned that the one case that you had with the woman who wasn’t making neutrophils. You were having her come in twice per week. Is that a pretty typical treatment plan for most PEMF therapy?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

I mean, I try, if I can get my patients in here at least once a week, if not two to three times a week, that’s my average. That’s what I like to see. A lot of times people just can’t quite make that time or for whatever reason. So then I say, okay, if you can’t do that, let’s do it once a week for as many weeks as possible.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Okay.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

And try to facilitate it that way.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, I find that also to be the case where once a week often is not enough, but sometimes they’re limited by time and you just have to do what you can. But really it’s when they’re able to come in two to three times a week, a lot like what a physical therapist might say. That’s where we kind of get a lot of momentum and can get more change.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

And I really do like that. If they’re going to be able to come in three days a week, I like to do it on a Monday, Wednesday and a Friday. I like to have that day in between to allow some body self-regulation to happen.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, exactly. Let the body integrate and such. So this is sort of just an interesting question. I’m curious. So if you were to get yourself another PEMF device, would you get another Hugo or would you be open to exploring something else?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

No, I would absolutely be open to exploring other things. And the reason is, is because the reality is, is the Hugo came with the Hackett. That’s how I was introduced to it. In fact, I’m considering on changing, doing some change up here, which would eliminate the Hackett from my practice, which would bring in, I would probably bring in a couple of PEMF devices. One that might be stationary and one that might be able to travel. So that’s how I’m looking at, as the future unfolds. That’s where my mind is going with that. Just because that is one of the things I just don’t want to be without is PEMF.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, same here. My specialty is acupuncture and I would say the same thing though that I need my PEMF and it does some similar work to what the acupuncture needles can do. It will stimulate acupuncture points and even the tissues and cells that are deeper than the points are. But yeah, absolutely, it’s a must have. And I think that strategy of maybe having one more stationary device and another more portable one, that covers your bases and gives you more versatility.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

That’s exactly. As COVID has changed the world for many, I’m doing a lot more movement, moving around than I am being stationary in my brick and mortar on a day-to-day. So that just allows me to be able to take it with me if I’m seeing clients in a different city or different state or whatever that looks like, but I just, because of the enhancement of it, because of what it does for the human body, yeah, it’s a win-win either way.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, it sure is. It sure is. So are there any other interesting cases that come to your mind? Any other cool stories at all?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

I mean, I think just the other one, not as far as like these two cases, but the athletes, the young athletes.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

It’s so amazing to watch these young athletes. I think what I love about it most is that the younger person is, the less ego they have to go with. They’re not attached to anything, if you will. And so sometimes you’ll get somebody on there and they’re like, “I don’t know what this is doing. “I don’t feel anything. “It’s not doing anything.” But when you actually watch the PEMF shape, shape an athlete in their performance aspect, it is so awesome to watch. And so again, more of the prevention aspect of making sure that their body is viable and ready to perform at their optimal level for game nights. We literally have a swinging door for these athletes to come in. It’s so great. But that’s not a particular case, but it is a generalized case of recovery.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, I’ve seen that too. I’ve had a couple of experiences with professional athletes, but then also more like local athletes. And even at the high school level, a lot of folks have come into with all kinds of various injuries. And sometimes with these kids, even though their mind is a little more open, what I find is a lot of times they are going all out, they’re giving it their 110%. But they’re still growing. Sometimes the mind is making them do inappropriate things, exerting way too much. So then we’re able to do more to help reset some of that.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Well, and that’s why I say when they come in and they don’t have that ego of what is this thing doing? They’re like, this makes me perform better. I don’t know what it does. But I feel so much better. It is a lot of that circulation. It is the circulatory aspect of it and the recovery, the healing piece. The lactic acid is no longer appliable in their extremities. And yeah, they feel good. They get a great night’s sleep. All of that.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah. So, well, this is–

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Here’s another thing, sorry, I don’t mean to interrupt. I just thought about this.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, no, no.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

I have to actually lock my dog out of the room when I get on the mat.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

I’ve heard.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Because inevitably she will come and jump up on top of me. So in Hugo, you’re sandwiched between the two mats, right?

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

And so she’ll come up on top of me and lay on top of me while I’m on it. She loves the vibration of it. And so it’s not just for humans, this is also fantastic for animals, any living, anything, living.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

All life, that’s right.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

All life. All life.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

There have been studies that show what happens when you expose plants to certain magnetic fields and see the magnetic fields. And I’ve definitely like the animals as well. Just the other day, we had somebody here who, she was actually here for her dog. I’m not actually authorized to do acupuncture on animals in my state. And they actually were here for a PEMF consult because they had heard about us from a friend. So of course, after evaluating, it was like, yeah, we pretty much a need to start doing something. And they were together doing treatment in the back and it was so cool. They were just both hanging out in the same bed and the dog kind of moved around and shifted a little bit.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, yeah.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

But I’ve heard of this before with other folks that own devices. They’re like, “Yeah, they always want to hang out with me while I’m on it.”

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

I’m like, no, like this is my time. I’ll let you get on here by yourself. And this is a puppy. I had an older dog that I would pull off. I would pull it and put it on the floor and she would lay on it on the floor. I’d have to sit in the room with her. If I left the room, she would leave the mat. But it’s incredible to watch, because they don’t know what’s going on. They just know they feel it and they like it. It feels really good to them. So they’re just like, they’re looking at you like, mom, what is happening here? But it’s very interesting. It’s amazing to watch.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, we see that sometimes with acupuncture too, like when I’ve observed acupuncture done on certain animals, you can see the shift and you’ll see them relaxing and you they’re intuitively they know that something good is happening. And with PEMF I feel like it’s similar, but it’s just doing that deeper work. Now you’ve got this therapy going through their entire body.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, yeah. But I just thought that was so cool just to like, literally the first like three to four times that I had her, I just got her a couple of months ago, I was like, what are you doing? No, get off of me right now.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Well, another interesting thing that comes up in the world of acupuncture is, there are many people who have their pets or their family pets, dogs, cats, or around where I have my practice, there’s a lot of people with horses. And so people will be getting acupuncture treatments done on all these animals and they may not even be doing these treatments for themselves. How many folks are dealing with issues where they have to be back and forth to the vet or they have to spend a lot of money for these specific health problems. A PEMF device could be very valuable. It could do a lot of work for a variety of things. So I think as people learn more about that, hopefully they see that opportunity as well, that it’s not just for us humans, even though that’s specialize in. So, yeah, I think that that’s a great point. Thanks for reminding me about that. Because animals certainly will heal faster with PEMF too.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

They really will, absolutely. And they love it. They absolutely love it.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

And humans love it too, when they have a chance to .

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yes, of course we do.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

The first time I ever did PEMF, it was on a low intensity system. And so I actually didn’t really feel anything going on, and it was very short. It was like an eight minute treatment. Actually, I hadn’t had a chance at that point to really look into what PEMF is, but it was somebody who had offered to come by and do a demo. And I was like, “Yeah, sure.” So I didn’t really feel much, but my curiosity was piqued enough to say, all right, I got to look into this. I saw some brochures and it was talking about micro-circulation. I said, all right, this seems like it’s some good stuff. It seems like there’s overlap with what I do already to help people with acupuncture. But the first time I got on a high intensity PEMF device, that was like, whoa, this is something totally different.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Game changer, yeah.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, yeah. And I even tell people, I’m like, yeah, I can’t even really describe it. You got to just feel it and see what it’s like.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, and I think more and more, because of all the stressors in our life, we need to feel something. We need to know, we are humans. We like instant gratification.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

You’re right, you’re right.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

And so when we can feel that charge happening in our body and we can feel the up regulation and the circulation aspect of everything, we’re more apt to come back and do it again because we felt or saw that change immediately.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right, right. And sometimes I’ve had it happen where you’ll be doing the full body PEMF, but the patient is only feeling it in one particular place. And it happens to be a place that they’ve injured before, or that’s been causing them problems. And that’s even more like yep, you know that it’s actually doing what it needs to do, where it needs to be done.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

That’s right. That’s beautiful thing is it’s intelligent like that. Your body and it, they are best friends. They’re in such communication that they’re just working together.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yep, that synergy. Yeah, I love it.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, the synergy with just, you just got to relax and just let it do its job.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Well, so this has been an awesome and fun conversation, and I definitely learned a lot to talking with you. Before we conclude, is there anything else that you wanted to add at all or bring up about PEMF?

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

I don’t think so. I mean, yeah, I don’t think so. It literally just like when you asked me earlier about would I stick with the Hugo or would I get a different machine, I was just like, I really need to get that traveling once, sooner than later.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of the systems they do make the same model in a clinical version and portable version. And like, for me, some of the devices I’ve got, I ended up getting a little carry case that’s like kind of sturdy. So I know that it’ll be in there well and if you drop it or something, it’s protected. But I mean, yeah, if you can take it to the people, then it’s even more empowering.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

That’s exactly right. And it also shows them that we are able to move it. You can take it anywhere you want with you.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

When I first are started working with Dr. Paula, one of the things about his philosophy that stood out to me was that you don’t have to go to somebody to get this. Of course, when you start, you’re going to do that. You’re going to go to a clinic, but you’re not bound by that. So once you get started, the path ahead is wide open.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, and then I mean, the prevention aspect is unlimited at that juncture.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

I can’t think of an easier way to do prevention. I’ve thought about this before. There’s so many ways to do prevention. We’re all constantly telling people, you got to do prevention, but it’s like, how do I really do something that I know is really helping everything? And I can’t think of a way, other than PEMF therapy that just gets it all.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

No, I can’t agree more with that. And I don’t think it’s just . I think anybody that’s associated with PEMF is going to feel that way.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Seen too many really good stories, turnarounds to ignore it. So we’re spreading this message.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Yeah, absolutely.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Nelson-Hawks.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Thank you so much. It was so fun to talk to you.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, same here. And it’s nice to know that we’ve got folks like you out there doing all this, and we look forward to talking with you again soon. Thanks again.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Thank you, I look forward to it.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

For joining us, yeah. All right, I’ll talk to you later.

Jennifer Nelson-Hawks

Bye.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Bye.