Hello, everyone, and welcome once again to the Prostate Cancer Summit. I am your host, Doctor Geo Espinosa. And today, I have a pleasure of introducing you to Doctor John Hall.

Doctor John Hall completed his undergraduate degree studies in chemistry at Columbia University here in New York. He was a graduate fellow at Princeton University, working in Department of Biochemical Sciences when he completed his PhD at NYU.

My lovely school, where I'm part of a faculty member, happily a faculty member of, in the Department of Biochemistry. Doctor Hall has served as a consultant in biotechnology industry and is currently the director of research at Bell Jar Foundation, which is working toward curing cancer the natural way.

John, my friend, so great to see you, brother. How are you? Oh, it's great to see you too. I'm doing pretty well. Thanks. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm doing great.

Nice to see that. You still at Beljanski? You know, right before we recording, I reminded you, perhaps, and myself that we worked together about 20 years ago when I was at Columbia Department of Urology, where we were doing some studies on around Paul Pereira and Raul Fievel Materia, way back in the day.

That's right. Which is important, period for us, because that's when we really started doing research on these plant extracts at very prestigious medical research institutes like Columbia here in the States.

And it's been doing a lot more of that over the years. It's been extraordinary. And that's there are two things that I remember from doing studies with, your product and a few others.

One thing is like, wow, this is, so fascinated with, you know, doing research. You know, that was kind of how I started. I did some research. I was involved in clinical trials, getting patients in collecting their data.

And I also realized I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. I don't I don't want to be a researcher collecting data and, you know, subscribing for grant and NIH grants.

And this is not what I want to do. So I there's two very important things. Great. There's good studies and great academic institutions on supplements.

Number two, this is not what I want to do. So, Well that's a valuable lesson. I think so I think so I rather be on on the mic on a podcast or giving talks and doing research and and seeing my patients and doing the clinical work.

John. Don't you miss it a little bit? No. You know, I was I first started when I first started, I was involved in a select trial, a selected for the Selenium and Vitamin E trial and prostate cancer for that.

And I had to clip toenails because to see, you know, the selenium concentration is toenails. So I was clipping toenails and sending them to the lab. That was I mean, you have to pay your dues, and that's how I paid my dues.

But that was not fun. I get it. And following patients, making sure they're compliant and making sure they're taking their pills, making sure they follow up their visit so we can track their progress.

Oh, man. That was that was not fun. But I'm glad others like doing it. And so now I kind of look at other research, and I interpreted and I, and I apply it to help patients apply.

I'm, I'm a applicator of the of the research. That's, that's kind of. Where it's also very important to learn how to evaluate the research. Yeah. That's right. That background. That's right.

You know, I'm not interested in sounding smart at the next cocktail party and say, well, the next research, I'm interested in making a difference in people's lives.

And and applying the application of the research. Because one thing is, whatever the research says, you know, is very well drawn and another is how can you apply it already?

Absolutely. Which I'm also very interested in. Right. Trying to bridge both of those worlds myself. That's right. John, let's talk a little bit about Paul Pereira and Ralph Maria.

And it's anti-cancer effects. Tell me, I mean, I'm familiar. Vaguely. Now. It's been 20 years or so since we last worked together. Some of the history behind these two plants and and how how do they work?

How do they actually have anti-cancer effects? Well, let me go back to a little bit of a history. Both of these plant extracts and their anti-cancer activity, specifically, we discovered by a scientist named Miracle Belt who worked at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, France.

Okay. And he did something remarkable. He developed an acid that could detect whether or not a given agent, wherever it was from, had what kind of effect would have on cancer proliferation.

And so if the agent, the extract, the drug, whatever could promote the cancer. Yes, they could tell him that. But if inhibited the cancer from growing, it could also tell him that.

So that's a valuable and assay which he called the ultimate test. That's actually and that's how he first screened a whole lot of compounds and was establishing the fact that you could use that assay to tell if a compound had throat cancer, could stimulate cancer.

And it wasn't too long before he realized hey I can as I just said, use the same assay. And if I introduce an inhibitor of cancer process of developing both cancer, it would tell me if it was working that way.

And after screening I think many hundreds of compounds. I don't know the exact number, but he found the anti-cancer effect of the two extraction just mentioned Paul Pereira and revoked the a voluntary.

And those are plant extracts or er comes from the bark of a tree that grows in the Amazon rainforest and reverse involuntary comes from the bark of a shrub that grows rather more widely.

I think we've obtained these roots from Africa in at least one source. So, there's something exotic about the sources of these things. But it turns out they have real anti-cancer effects.

And that's not all. Both of the extracts share a fundamental characteristic, which is of the highest order of what we want to see in an anti cancer age, which is, I call it selectivity.

That means that it's, these extracts are both active against cancer cells and tumor cells. But in the presence of a healthy cell, they they take no action.

They don't have an effect. And that's the basis, the wonderful basis, the selectivity I'm referring to of, the real fundamental value of these extracts, I'm sorry, cancer specific.

They go after cancer, but other tissues in the body of the animals we work with experimental animals, and the men and women who take them are not affected.

There's a failure of these extracts to generate negative side effects. When you see when you say extract, right, that that implies that, you know, here's the plant, here's the bark you're extracting an active ingredient.

Are you leaving other ingredients out and just extracting the active ingredient, or is it within the whole plant. Oh it's oh it's very important. This process of extraction, you put on something which is really part of the secret of the success.

You have to know how to extract these active anti-cancer compounds that are selective. As I said, and it's important to leave behind a lot of things in the in the bark of a tree.

There's going to be a lot of things. There are indeed many other compounds that won't be helpful in the body, that won't be anti-cancer, and may even generate a reaction or a negative side effect.

So I think I credit you asking with devising methods of extraction. We did the techniques, the technical work and figure out how to get out and optimize the presence of these valuable anti-cancer compounds.

They had this special property of being selective against cancer, and I didn't care at presence of a healthy cell. Nothing happened to them. Upset. And how does it how does it typically when you extract things from nature, there's always potential to some side effects.

So you can't there's no free lunches. So how how can there be how can that how does that happen with these two extracts? In other words, extract sensitive and identifies cancer cells, particularly and actually have another question with it.

Does that identify prostate cancer cells. Does it identify any cancer. Right. Because they maybe they're not all created equal. And and and how does it leave, you know, healthy cells alone.

How what's that process like? And I'm sure you and I know it was studied in humans, but maybe you can expand on all those things. I asked you, like three questions in one.

So if you forget any of them, let me know. So, let's go back a bit. These extracts are selected, but as I've been saying, through this careful technique of extraction, some compounds that are deleterious are either removed or don't come along because of the design of the extraction process itself.

So that's a very important step. And in the case of these extracts, they can be taken, we know from experience in animals that they work. They have an anti-cancer effect.

And to answer your second question, they are broad based or broad spectrum. So, they recognize cancer cells of all the types we've tested so far. So maybe there's something somewhere, a kind of cancer that isn't responsive to the extract.

But, in our labs, we've tested quite a few. And that includes prostate. Of course. Ovarian, pancreatic, breast, lung, brain. For Pereira, it's a long list, and I could go, so do.

Yeah. I mean, I so your your questions are hitting my high points here, which is that these are selective extracts. They're extracted in a way that just leaves us with the active but safe activity and their broad spectrum.

They do treat all cancers. They recognize all cancers. And that's to be expected only if you pull back and and sort of that cancer research, it evolved to focus on specific types of cancer.

So if you're in another department and there's somebody there it works on breast tissue. They're focused on breast cancer. And of course breast cancer has its own profiles genetic profile forms in its own sets of mutations.

It has a uniqueness, a distinctive characteristic that identifies. But I think we're looking at through the work that has been started and that we've been doing, we're looking at targets in cells that would be shared by all cancers or virtually all as far as we know.

So and why not? Cancer is cancer because these cells grow in uncontrolled proliferation. They create these damaging tumors and ultimately can take over the body.

And, there's going to be some commonality there. And I think that's what we're looking at. And that's what the extracts target, a common feature. Are it's so these so why both why both in a formula?

I mean I am a formula guy, but why not just pop Pereira separately from the in other words, have you proven that both work better than each individual herb the time this.

Actually goes back? That's another great question because it goes back to the time, of the Columbia work. What we did in that time period. I tried. To actually compare their activity.

First of all, and learn a little bit more about, say, for example, the effect they have in a cancer cell on gene pathway expression. And we could see that they don't act identically.

They actually the the active compounds in the pouch. Pereira and probably the voluntary extracts are structured related, but they're not identical. And it's not really surprising that there's a commonality of mechanism of action, but they're also distinct two features.

One. Yeah. And that led us to the idea that if we combine them, we would get a potential synergy of action, that there would be a real benefit. So we bring the both together.

They're both anti-cancer, but they're selective. And we could then in a combination take advantage of their somewhat different way of acting in the cancer cell.

And we actually did assays which showed that they are synergistic. And that's a detailed procedure I'm not going to call it that right now. But it's was very valuable and striking.

And so, although they're often used alone, the combination is very effective. It's really wonderful. But I mentioned already brain cancer. And here's one difference Paul Pereira crosses the active ingredient, crosses the blood brain barrier.

So we see efficacy for example in glioblastoma whereas there's no point in using robotic of one victory extract for that because the active ingredient there does not efficiently enter the brain by crossing the blood brain barrier.

There's a filter there that's meant to protect, I think, the, the integrity of brain tissue of the normal system and, it there's, got to be certain characteristics of a compound that can go across that barrier.

How can do it remotely again. And so they're not the same. And, it's important to understand that. But at the same time, the combination is winning. It's, it really is good.

So what if a prostate cancer patient is taking both. Right. And so then we have the power getting past a blood brain barrier and the relative is not is it potentially causing any harm to to to the to brain cells that since is going across anyway.

I think I'm actually saying something here that is unusual and may be almost it's not difficult to accept at least in do skepticism. And that is that we don't see negative side effects.

We didn't see in the animals. Research at Columbia with Debbie Bemis was on that project. Earth, also NYU faculty. Now, I have to say, Where is she now?

I don't know, an NYU. Oh, good. Okay. Very good. I need to look her up. I boast about, our institution as often as I can, but anyway, we I digress. Continue. Oh, she did very beautiful work.

He does, she does, and she still does. Yeah. Yes. But the Martin that was the experiment she did conducted in mice. Yeah. And, they were it kind of in a sense, as experimental animals.

They were used to find out what happens if the male mouse has prostate cancer. And, we found in those experiments that the mice didn't suffer negative consequences or negative side effects when they were given these extracts, their weight gain didn't change.

I believe they did. That organization of internal organs and also toxicity, say, of any agent or and even any anti-cancer agent that may actually kill cancer cells but also has the side effects.

It shows toxicity to healthy cells. You'll often see that in the abdominal, compartment. And there can be real problems there. But these extracts don't cost that.

So I'll say again, we haven't seen these negative side effects. And that's one reason why these products are so great. And as you already know, I think it makes them useful not just for cancer but for prevention.

And I also remember from the studies, John, there was a non-cancerous benign benefit to the prostate. It helped men who with BP with with an enlarged prostate and even the urinary symptoms.

I remember that clearly. Exactly right. And that was test we did with the combination of the two Paul Pereira plus recall for voluntary. Yeah. Which is I've already said worked very well together.

But that also reveals another big thing, I, which is that the extracts are both anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory. Yeah. And basically the BPH is an inflammatory condition.

The prostate is enlarged for a number of reasons, partly because of hormonal changes. As many. But, the enlarged prostate is literally reduced in size and weight under the influence of both extracts.

And, the triggers for the BPH are attenuate. So you can see in those tissues that the extracts, reduce the levels of five alpha reductase and androgen receptor and, and PSA, which is something we saw at Columbia in the country, people.

And that was what really turned us on to looking further at this. Anti-inflammatory itself and indeed, it's, it so in fact, when you give these extracts and say, for example, we just ask what happens in individual has prostate issues and they want to use these extracts.

They're calling the Belgians extract. And, some of the power got into the brain because that's one of the destinations it can reach. But no, there's no side effect.

There's no definition for. And in fact, what you're getting is an anti-inflammatory effects free. Right. As a side as a side as a side benefit. So is that the, is that the mechanism of action that's beneficial for men with prostate cancer.

In other words, tell us a little bit more about how these two plant extracts actually work against prostate cancer and what, what potential mechanism is by how it works.

Okay. Basically in prostate cancer, both extracts exert two effects. One, they induce cell cycle arrest. They stop the process of cell division in the cancer cell.

At number two, they induce a process called apoptosis. And apoptosis, as you may know, is a built in program in our cells that tells us, well, I'm going to commit suicide.

Yeah. I mean, that may seem really odd. Why would that be guilty? And we understand that at least part of the answer comes from embryonic developed, that when the body plant develops, certain cells are generated that actually are no longer needed, and they commit suicide in order to remove themselves from the whole developmental process.

And so that one of the goals, the highest goals you can get in cancer treatment is to specifically turn on that a pop ptosis pathway in a cancer cell.

As, again, as I keep saying, the healthy cells are not affecting them. This is not induced the complications. So, there's real targeting there. It's selective targeting is specific to cancer. And, you in fact end up with a positive side effect, which is anti inflammation.

Well, that's you know, they they all say you know, you reduce chronic inflammation in the body and there's less opportunity for cancer cells to, you know, thrive and and metastasize and the inflammatory response is one of the major factors right in promoting cancer.

So What's what's in the pipeline for the herbs, for the products, for the anti-cancer, research that you guys are working on. What's next? Well, one of the research programs we did that we did that really, far this up is the research done at Kansas University Medical Center.

On prostate, not prostate, but on cancer stem cells. Okay. And those are done in pancreatic cancer and ovarian cancer. So that group out there with, run by, Doctor Kay Chan worked very closely with her over the years.

Look, first at the effect of the extracts against pancreatic cancers and in separate experience, experiments, ovarian cancer and both were successful.

So I said this fits the idea of a broad spectrum anti-cancer extract. And over the time, the whole stem cell theory of carcinogenesis and the basis for cancer recurrence has developed.

And the idea there is that the population of tumors of tumor cells is heterogeneous. It's not just one regular old cancer cell. It need to do. There are subpopulations.

I think there's more complex than I can go into, except to say that one critical discovery is that one of the small subpopulations is called cancer stem cells.

It's made up of stem cells, but they're cancerous stem cells. And it's very important to make a distinction then between the healthy normal stem cell that have many therapeutic, effects, potential effective cosmetics, beating, heart repair, tissue repair.

It's a very exciting and active area of biomedical research. But in cancers, some of the cells have stolen the capacity of these stem cells for, for endless self-renewal.

They can keep dividing, keep dividing. And you can see that kind of since what a cancer cell is trying to do, which is to grow a divide without and without.

So essentially, yeah. So, the cancer stem cell is believed to be the culprit, certainly for cancer recurrence. And so that going back to the modalities of cancer, we see, currently implemented in the mainstream.

Cancers are treated. Chemotherapy, for example, shrinks the tumor. And in many cases there's a remission. Basically, the patient goes into a period where there's not an active cancer growing that remission then sometimes last a few years.

Sometimes it lasts many years. But it is not a useful to find out that down the road, the cancer comes back. And this is one of the most dreadful aspects of the disease.

Because when people who have undergone therapy and it looks like it's worked, it shows real efficacy and they survive, it, they're feeling good. There's a ticking time bomb there.

It can come back and it often does. It doesn't always come back, but very frequently it does return. And that's called recurrence. And that's the devilish thing about these cancers.

And that is due that recurrence is due to the cancer stem cells, which are also then defined by their ability to metastasize. They can trigger metastasis and the invasiveness to other tissues.

So that ability of cancer to spread is carried by these stem cells as well. And the stem cells are resistant to accept chemotherapy drugs. That's typical that subpopulation of stem cells.

So the tumor shrinks with the stem cells. Or at least some of them can remain behind. And they may be quiescent for some time during the period of remission.

But then in recurrence and wake up start to divide can spread around the body. And the other characteristic of the cancer stem cell is the initiation of new tubes, the formation of a neutral.

And so the group in Kansas showed that both extracts are effective against this special population of cancer. Stem cells. The pancreas for pancreatic cancer.

And any any idea if it has a similar effect on price on advanced prostate cancer, even anecdotally like it is possible that even if it hasn't been, it hasn't been looked at specifically for prostate cancer.

Well, let me just, finish answering your first question, your previous question, which is that we've been working on breast cancer stem cells. First, it was after the ovarian and pancreatic.

We wanted to expand that because we could really see the importance of this cancer stem cell problem. And so we have undergone experiments underway, also done in Kansas University that said, to, determine whether or not we have efficacy for this extract combination, against breast cancer.

So and I was going to tell you, if you hadn't asked me that, our next project would for very excited about is to look at prostate cancer stem cells. Oh, great.

So we really, want to get back, to dealing with that issue and in for these cancers that we know of, the stem cells are very important for this recurrence and ultimate, ultimately, it's whether it's when the cancer comes back, it can often be more aggressive.

The identity of those, stem cells confers this, in many cases, drug resistance, ongoing drug resistance. And those are very hard, recurrent tumors to actually treat at that stage.

So, we're keenly interested in getting back to prostate, which I know you're glad to hear. I am. But to make one other point about that, we did hook up with the scientist Doctor John.

I don't know if you knew him. He was at Columbia. You did a post-doc there and was very. He's basically into urology and prostate. Yep. And, he did a number of experiments.

I did small publications on, prostate cancer, inflammation. And he really elaborated the activity of the cancer in the BPH condition referred to briefly, but he also did the paper on advanced prostate cancer.

This is the so-called castration resistant cell lines, which no longer respond to the hormones. And, you know, it's called a hormone treatment, but it's anti-Mormon, right, man.

Mandate wipe out the testosterone, which has a, triggering effect on the growth of, prostate cancer cells. So in, in those advanced, prostate cancer cells that are not hormonally responsive, we found that the popper er, for example, was effective.

It did induce apoptosis in those cells. The, the power did not the, not the, That experiment was done with purpura. That doesn't mean it's not okay. Okay.

So it was done only with paper and now with Rorschach. Right. We would predict activity against those, advanced prostate cancer cells by the revolver.

Yeah, but the actual experiment was done with copper. So. Okay, so we. Did see activity with those. And so, I think that's important, for men with, with advanced, cancers like that, which don't respond to the one with treatments.

Excellent. All right. Doctor John Hall, thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for the research you've done on these two products. Purpura and, Ralph, your vomit.

Toria, by the way, as an aside, the listener will say, Ralph, you vomit. Toria. Would I vomit when I take these? And it will it will induce some vomiting.

And so can you expand on that? I mean, I would ask. You know, it's a good question. And I have to tell you, I don't know the derivation of that specific term.

It's certainly not a pretty term. But no, as I've already said, that extract doesn't induce any nausea or vomiting. So okay, good, good. We're safe from that.

All right. Doctor John Hall, where can people find these, herbs and where can people find you? Well, I am at the Jet Ski Foundation. Can you spell Belgian whiskey for the audience?

Sure. Vito J. And Scott. And the website is Belgian Schema.org Foundation. And that's where all the research comes from. And the extracts are available from the company called Mason.

Belgians. Now, that's come from the fact there's a, Belgian whiskey himself worked in France. And his daughter Sylvie Belgian, who runs the company, has French influence.

She actually was born in New York. What was raised in France and educated in France. So, there's still a strong connection to France because also the people there have used these products for many years.

And with the extracts I've been speaking about are available from Nestle Belgians. And that's my so in Bell J and Scott all together.com. Both of those websites have a lot of information.

You can see the scientific publications on both of them. And products are available on the belt missile belt yankee.com website. Wonderful. Thanks so much doctor John Hall, thanks for being on the summit.

I really appreciate you taking the time to, inform us about, look, all kinds of different botanicals that I think that a lot of people are just not aware of.

So I appreciate that, John. Oh, it's my pleasure to talk to you again. Thank thank you, everyone, for watching this other yet amazing episode. I know I say that after every episode, but it's true.

And of the prostate Cancer Summit. I hope you're enjoying it. I'm sure you are. I'm sure you're getting valuable information. Things, that you're not aware to aware of out of the box type of approaches that sometimes, you know, you have to think out of the box because, you know, sometimes, you know, you can't get everything you need from just science alone. Right?

And this is reasonable. This is all science based information that we're putting forward here. So I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're enjoying it. And, and this, this this information is valuable to you.

Much love to you. And I hope to see you at the next episode. This is Doctor Geo Espinosa signing off. I'll see you next time.

John Hall, PhD

The Power Of Plant Extracts For Prostate Cancer And Inflammation