Welcome to another, interview with, the M. S summit. Now, Doctor Avery Jackson received a degree in biology from the University of Chicago, a medical degree from Wayne State University, and he interned at northwestern and a neurosurgery resident at Penn State University. Now.

He is the founder and chief executive of the Michigan Neurosurgical Institute. Since 2004, he has presented research at several national and international neurosurgical spine conferences and holds over 20 patents for inventions in neurosurgery, general surgery.

He's really brilliant, with his regards to the brain function. So I really look forward to having the conversation Well, Doctor Jackson, I'm so glad, to have you today.

You are a very interesting fellow with a rich, research on the brain neurosurgery, and many, many patents. So I'd like to have you comment on, so the interventions that you're using there are so helpful for people with mouse and other systemic autoimmune diseases.

Sure. Thank you very much. Well, was well, the, the the big one that we've been using that's been a help is called Trudeau's and Trudeau's. It's a platelet rich plasma.

And what makes it really unique is that if you look in the literature, there have been thousands of papers that talk about platelet rich plasma and how it can affect the body and its regenerative abilities.

Right. The platelets perform over, six, or I should say, support over 600 different metabolic reactions in the body. What makes. Perhaps you should stop for a moment.

I'm betting our listeners may not know what platelets are. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Good point. So for for platelets. So in our blood we have the plasma which is kind of the fluid component.

We have our red blood cells which carry oxygen and iron and so forth. And then we have platelets and platelets. Are these really micro, small structures that really perform an awful lot in our blood?

You know, we used to think and in medical school, I was trained that platelets are used to stop bleeding, and they create these fibrin clots. But what we weren't exposed to is the fact that platelets actually orchestrate over 600 different metabolic reactions.

For instance, platelets actually carry 94% of your serotonin. Your feel good neurochemical, in your brain is carried on the platelets 94% of the time.

So this is fascinating. So you have these platelets and platelet rich plasma is when you take someone's blood, you can spin it down in a machine and just remove the actual platelet portion.

And when you do that you can use that to inject into joints in the knees or the shoulders or even the scalp. And it has a regenerative quality, or ability to it.

And it's been very helpful over decades. So there's no question that platelet rich plasma has been helpful. And even in my surgical practice as a neurosurgeon, I've been a neurosurgeon for over 24 years, and most of what I do is complex spine surgery.

But, also intracranial work. And what I've noticed is, is that the platelet rich plasma ipus in people who are have a hard time with wound healing. So after my surgery, say my back surgery or instrumentation, I close up with stitches.

I place this platelet rich plasma on the the wound and it helps it to heal. Right. So there's regenerative properties, are there? What makes Trudeaus another step beyond is that now you're placing this platelet rich plasma in the venous system versus just injecting in a joint or on the scalp, or just leaving it in the skin.

And Tapley Holland has, has really unlocked something wonderful because when you, let these platelets, kind of roam around in the intravascular space, they are kind of like conductors that orchestrate your immune system and your stem cells, and these regenerative properties.

And what we find is, is that the platelets will go to areas that have, chronic issues such as inflammation or for some reason, there's a dysfunction. And I have one patient who's a doc who has type one diabetes.

He has an insulin pump, for instance. He was given, four doses of this true dose, this platelet rich plasma, all of his own, all of his own blood. And by that fourth or fifth, dose, now, his platelet, his, insulin requirements are going down on his pump.

So our goal is obvious to get him to a place where he doesn't require any exogenous insulin at all. And so this is what the platelets do. They wake up the stem cells, they decrease inflammation.

They affect your brain. They affect every organ in your body. And they don't cause any damage because it's your own platelets. Okay, well, this is, of course, nothing that I was taught in medical school, either.

Doctor Jackson. So there's so much that we, have learned because I knew. Absolutely. I went to medical school, quite a few years ago. I do have some questions.

So if we're taking my blood out, let's say I come to you and you say, okay, Doctor Wahls, we're going to give you some platelet rich plasma. You take up my blood, get my platelets that were in my blood, you put them in your device, spins them around.

Now you extract the platelets, you put them probably back with the plasma. So without the red blood cells, the white blood cells. And you infuse that back in.

Yeah, but I had them already. So there must be some additional magic that's happening in this process. Can you help me understand that? And I'm I'm doctor and I'm thrilled that you asked because what makes this really, unique and I kind of question I said, okay, great.

It's, Okay, I get it in general, right? We know that platelets work, but in this case, if I'm just taking the platelets out and putting them back in, you know, you're going to have to help me out.

Well, it turns out, number one, you're activating the platelets. They're spun down, okay. And they're papers that look at activated platelets and they're enhanced functions.

So that's one aspect. But the big big key it's about the concentration gradients of platelets. So the platelets that you currently have in your in your body are very busy engaged in many many, many different processes.

So when you remove the platelets and there's a specific dosing so you know, there's a finger stick. And that finger stick then goes on a slide and your and based on your diagnosis, let's say that you have an autoimmune disorder.

You have other issues. You the computer with its AI technology, pairs the two together and says, this is how much blood and how many platelets we need to draw from this individual.

Activate those by spinning those in a centrifuge twice and then providing this specific dose of platelets back. So that's key. The dosing. The other piece that's interesting is that we're making about a million platelets per second roughly.

And so when you remove those platelets in that 35 or 45 minutes that you are waiting to get the platelets back, you have completely replaced all of the platelets that were missing.

So the platelets, the new platelets then get engaged in the original metabolic processes that the old ones were supposed to be involved. But we took those.

So now those are engaged. Now when you get these platelets back, these old platelets, if you will, that have been activated, they say they get into the bloodstream and say, hey, we have to we have nothing to do.

So we have to find issues, inflammatory or otherwise metabolic to fix because the new platelets are doing our job. And so this concentration gradient of platelets is really interesting because those platelets by definition they're drones.

And they go and say I see that there's a metabolic issue we need to fix. I see that there is a an issue with the brain inflammation, the pancreas. And so this is out of order.

So we're going to put it in order. And so that's the kind of the magic, if you will, about the true dose is it allows your platelets to be activated. And then when the platelets go in they're going into in vivo into a new environment that now really, don't have a need for them in terms of their basic metabolic function.

So these platelets go in and they search and say, what's wrong and what do we need to fix? And that's the beauty of of Trudeaus. It's a very elegant, very simple, therapy that has, has no side effects because we're not using any artificial medication at all.

Okay. So, let's have some, clinical cases that you've taken care of that are brain related. Because, you know, all of our listeners are here because either they have multiple sclerosis or they have an autoimmune disease with neurologic or psychiatric components.

That's right. So one so we have, there's a 61 year old, person who has, long haul Covid, and had, significant autoimmune, kind of symptoms. You know, there's the headaches.

There was the titers were very high in terms of, you know, their, in their labs. And so this person kind of failed, the, the current therapy. And so they said, hey, listen, let's just try the, the platelets.

So they did and so on their third treatment of Trudeau's noted resolution of their symptoms, the headaches, the dizziness that they were experiencing, some of the neuropathy, neuropathy and neurologic, symptoms that were an issue.

So there was a vast change and there was even a change in the emotional status. People experience, changes in terms of, you know, they have this true dose and then the day or 2nd May go by and then they notice there can be some mood swings and then it stabilizes.

Some people get the true dose and they feel that their body wants them to sleep. And then they do that for 24 hours, almost or so. And then there is a refreshing that occurs is how they describe it.

People with memory issues. We have someone who actually has, has, Alzheimer's and so on. Their fourth dose of true dose. Now their memory has improved, significantly that families noticed they noticed and someone else who had Parkinson's, this is, a 71 year old tried everything, add some side effects and said, is there anything else that we can do out there?

They heard of us and we got them in the clinic. And this, this gentleman had, after his, third or fourth dose, I believe he began to notice his facial expressions, improving his speech, his coordination.

He's he's playing pickleball now. His wife is ecstatic to know that there was that there's this therapy that, again, has no side effects. So we're seeing this, in, in, in also in autism, we're seeing this in particular in the younger population.

But even in those who are young adults who have autism, that with this, this true dose that there's resolution of their symptoms, sometimes with one treatment, sometimes up to six treatments.

But resolution where now they're, they're becoming verbal, they're interacting with, with their family members now. I mean it's absolutely amazing. Okay.

So I'm sure our listeners are like, wow, this really sounds intriguing. So I have a couple more questions. I am presuming, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the dose is part of you help people improve their nutrition, improve their self care, work on their sleep, work on movement.

And so trudeaus as part of a comprehensive approach to wellness. That's right. Exactly right. I mean, we we recommend, you know, of course, their water, their sleep and then and then some nutritional recommendations.

Okay. So, and, and everyone who's listening, you've been hearing a lot of conversation about nutrition movement and sleep. So we're going to gloss over that part, and really focus on the true dose.

So if somebody is curious like, okay, I want to try this. What what's involved? You've mentioned the fingerstick, you've mentioned drawing blood. So, can you sort of walk through I've seen you, we agree that.

Okay, I'm going to try the true dose. Yeah. What happens to me now? So. Yeah. Right. So you go in, and yeah, there's an initial call. We have a basic form that we send you, you know, your past, your history, and so forth.

And now it's cash pay. It's it's, $600 deposit for us. And then there's $900 after the treatment. Up to $1,500. Fee. And so and then once you get in, then you sit down, there's a fingerstick and we and the computer tells us, okay, this is how much blood we need draw.

So then so, so hang on a fingerstick you probably drop some tubes, you insert that little capillary tube into your. Exactly. It's a little it's a little capillary.

Yeah. Pipette. And then that goes on to a slide. The blood the slide goes into this the absorption spectrophotometer. And then from there we then from there we, we, get the results in the computer, tell tells us this is how much blood that you need to draw and how many platelets we need on average.

Okay. So so pick a number for me. So, you know, I'm basically a 77 year old person with secondary progressive M. S., and otherwise, I'm pretty good health. Yep.

So now what kind of number might you produce? So and again the well, what's so the range is it varies on average for you, that would be we would be drawing about 100 and, 115 cc's of blood and then spinning that down 156 50 and 115.

So cc's of blood. And so for us, that's going to be how many cups would that be? Or tablespoons. Because our our people think in terms of tests. Right right right.

So in terms of so in terms of tablespoons or say cups, that would be about about a three quarters, roughly of a cup roughly so much smaller than a blood, donation.

Yes. Much smaller than that. So or two tubes of blood, say, if those are 60 cc tubes, it'd be about like that much around. Okay. Right. So those 2 to 3 tubes of blood, in essence, and many of us have gone to the lab and had that amount of blood drawn.

So we're not talking a lot of blood here, folks. No, no, not a lot of blood at all. And then that gets put into the to the system. It gets spun down. There are two, levels of this spinning to activate and to, to separate the platelets from the plasma and from the red blood cells.

So after that occurs, then there's a validation study to make sure that we hit the appropriate amount that goes into the computer on a slide. Once we confirm then we usually end up with somewhere between five.

So as opposed to say 60. So somewhere between 5 and 7ml or cc's of blood is what is left. Those are all platelets. And we already have your I. V. in place.

And the platelets go back into the into the I. V.. So are the platelets. So there's an I. V. running. So you've you've drawn the blood out. There's an IV running.

So actually actually what we do is we just have, just the the initial, the I. V. needle, and then we, How are you capturing that time? Yeah, and it's a flush, and we just tap it during that time, like.

Okay. Yeah. So, and this whole process of spinning and analyzing would take ten minutes, an hour or two hours. So it takes it takes roughly about 45 minutes.

Okay. So not long at all. Yeah. Not long at all. But in that time you're making your platelets back. And and so that by the time we give you your platelets now your, your platelets, they go in and say, hey, what I was doing, what task I was performing.

This new guy is performing this task. So I need to find, other issues, chronic issues, inflammatory issues. And I need to orchestrate the repair of those issues.

Wow. So, now, in our previous conversation, you mentioned, some people who got four treatments. Got six treatments. How am I coming in every, every week for this?

Right. So what's the frequency? Yeah, the frequency is we find, that 6 to 8 weeks is just about right. One of the things that, now over, we're at tens of thousands of of people who have used trudeaus or have had this therapy across the country.

And we're finding that that the sweet spot for people is 6 to 8 weeks. And what I mean by that is that there's an additive effect when you're working on a problem, if it's a really complex issue.

So it's emotional, you know, through ACS Adverse Childhood Events, the CDC study, we learned that emotional trauma can affect your physical body. And so let me stop you for a moment, Doctor Jackson.

Oh, sure. For the listeners, I really want to highlight that the research is very clear. Those of us with an autoimmune disease have a much higher rate of adverse childhood experiences than those without.

And I noticed that in my research, and so I went as like, wow, you know, literally in one of my studies, every single person reported these extraordinary ACS, which, by the way, got me thinking about my own childhood, which I had not contemplated.

And I went through and calculated my score and I was like, oh my gosh. I too have, had some very serious, ace issues, as a child. And so, I did, go get some talk therapy and have worked through some of that trauma.

So listeners, I invite you to reflect on your childhood, and find someone who can help you calculated a score. You may have some new insights. And now, back to you, doctor Jackson.

Well, Doctor Wells, thanks so much for mentioning that. Because, you know, when we look at our current health care system and we see that, you know, it has some wonderful, aspects to it and then some shortcomings, one of the big shortcomings I believe in, in my, in my clinic, for instance, in terms of neurosurgical spine, there's a lot of pain.

There's a lot of, you know, you have to discern what surgical and what's not and so forth. And this ASIS comes up again, this adverse childhood events.

And, and we aren't e, trained to address spiritual issues and emotional issues. We're just trained to look at the physiology and the person, right. The physical person, the brain, the substrate.

Well, now, as you pointed out, Doctor Wells, now when you at ASIS and you ask people, listen, healing is in spirit, soul and body, and your emotional life is a huge part of what happens to your the rest of your body, your immune system, your inflammatory, state and so forth.

So if we don't address the other two thirds of who you are, how well are we really doing when we're trying to take care of someone who has the results of physiologic result of something that may be multifactorial, but in large part could be because of a childhood trauma or a current significant stress, the fight or flight, phenomenon that we that everyone is aware of and in fact, in the people that we've been taking care of, the vast majority did have or did report that they had, significant trauma in their in their childhood and or current trauma.

And, and so almost every time and we noticed even a correlation with, them having, higher, to climb disease and other disorders because their immune system was thrown off significantly.

And so, so this is really fascinating to me as a neurosurgeon. And I think about how the, you know, the thalamus, the part of your brain that basically orchestrates your the rest of the organs in your body, I mean, it's directly affected by your perception of the events that either happened in the past or that you're currently dealing with.

And it as an illustration, when someone gets nervous, they're at a job interview. You're hit your palms sweat, right? Or your stomach. You have some, your stomach gets nervous, you have butterflies.

Well, that's a direct effect. A neurochemical cascade occurs from your thalamus or from your frontal lobe. Your perception of your reality to the thalamus, and then goes to your stomach or goes to the African African glands and your hands, and you start to sweat.

So your emotional life plays a major role in your physiology and your immune system and your physiology, your gut in general. So, you know, this was a wonderful kind of finding when we were introduced to Trudeaus.

And then it started it. It created an awareness of the whole person. And how do we start to probe respectfully, of course, into their emotional life and even their spiritual life to make sure that we're not missing something?

Some way that we can be of help to them, either with resources or in other ways. And it turns out that that's been very, very fruitful. Well, okay. So we we talk with the person and encourage them to address their Aces, work on their self-care routine.

And and I'm bold enough to say, okay, I'm going to try this. Trudeau's therapy. How, and I sort of put it in my calendar. I'm going to command every 6 to 8 weeks.

How will I know that things are helping me? Yeah, because you'll you'll start to to notice improvement in, in, in inflammation. So in pain, oftentimes people will notice improvement.

Their, their knees, their joints, they'll notice change in their circadian rhythms. So their sleep patterns begin to change and they begin to develop more restful sleep.

And as you know, doctor walls, if you're not getting good sleep, all your systems are going to fall apart. And so they notice that and and they notice some change in personality.

And then when we get to their specific concerns, for instance, the long hold Covid with the dizziness and so forth, and the brain, they've noticed, they'll notice improvement in that.

Now, what's interesting is your platelets. We don't get to tell your platelets exactly what to do when your platelets say whatever is the worst area usually central, right.

So it's usually going to be brain. Heart. It's going to be, you know, liver. It's going to be the pancreas kidney. Those are usually addressed first. But what we found is, is that oftentimes the downstream effect of a central issue is oftentimes the cause of inflammation.

Your knee pain may not be directly caused from from the area of your knee. It could be because there's something else going on. Your liver is not working, functioning, properly or your your kidneys and so forth.

And so ultimately people do get resolution of what they came for those who have significant access. And in and they're stressed and they have other issues, oftentimes it may take more than the six, therapies at that to 6 to 8 weeks apart.

But, you know, the ones that are complex, the ones that are less complex, oftentimes they notice a difference in 2 to 3 therapies. Okay. So a couple times you've mentioned personality change.

And my listeners are probably thinking like, oh my God, do I have to worry that I'm going to get, you know, develop, rage, develop, you know, some bipolar tendencies with difficulties, impulse control stuff, making bad decisions with my money, my love life.

So personality changes. No, not. And thanks for for asking that Doctor Wells to clarify. You know, there you know, certain people are have more, lively personalities, if you will.

And those several of those people have, have come back and said that I was working through kind of some emotional issues and I didn't notice a swing in my emotions in the first couple of days.

They went up and then they kind of stabilized and then, and then I was it was a very calming effect. So not not a drastic change in emotions, but the people notice, a more of a feeling of, of being stabilized.

Stabilized. Okay. Yeah. More pleasant, you know, usually several days into the therapy. So I think, for the listeners. And I want you to correct me if I've got this wrong, that, we're talking about modulating, the extremes, reducing the extremes.

We're going to, probably if you're suffering from anxiety, anxiety is likely going to be reduced if you struggle with depression, low mood, your mood will probably be elevated.

If you've, on the bipolar side where you sometimes make bad decisions with your money and your love life, that will probably be moderated. Your in your judgment, you'll have a little better impulse control.

So then you'll be able to weigh the effects of your decisions, and you'll be likely making better decisions with your personal relationships. Would that be a fair description of the personality changes you're trying to, that you you may see Doctor Wells.

You're spot on. I mean, okay, the serotonin that you're 94% of your serotonin is carried on your platelets, for instance. So you get this surge now of extra serotonin that's circulating along with, you know, you know, and again, serotonin kind of that feel good, neurochemical in your brain and gut.

And I believe that's one of the, one of the aspects of, of why this is helpful. And we see change in the emotional or emotional lives for the, for the good.

Now, for the listeners, many of us have issues that Doctor Jackson's been talking about. Sleep disruption, insomnia. Very, very common in, Ms.. And systemic autoimmune disease.

We're seeing anxiety. We're seeing depression. The longer you have, Ms.. Or a systemic autoimmune disease, the rates of anxiety, depression continually climb.

And then, the last one I want to highlight is the rates of brain fog, memory problems, difficulty completing the complex tasks, at work. It can become a leading cause for job loss, for, you know, the anxiety and the, brain fog issues.

Doctor Jackson. What for? For people who are getting a little anxious about how much longer can I work? Because I can see that work is getting harder.

Would this be a a intervention that would likely be helpful for those individuals? Yeah. And I really believe that it will be. It would be we've noticed some, some, you know, wonderful changes.

And, you know, it's not a panacea. But I can tell you that it has affected everyone that had these therapies in different ways based on their personality and their their home life and the current stress that they have, their nutrition and so forth.

But yeah, it really does change. It changes things. It changes how you see the world, how you feel. And and again, the one one of the many aspects I really enjoy about, about the trudeaus is, is that it's a, it's a very benign thing.

I mean, it's eloquent in that you're using your own body system to heal. It's your this is not some artificial. Here's a list of all the side effects.

And let me add this. If I could doctor. Well people say, well are there any side effects to this therapy. And I think that's a fair question. And the answer is there's no direct side effects.

Some people, though, who have who are not hydrated or who have, a large, say, Lyme disease load, inflammatory load, the platelets will go in and they'll start to, really fix the inflammatory side or they'll upregulate your immune system.

And that leads to more, distress action of the diseases or the infections. And so sometimes people can have what's called a herc swimmer's response, which is just going to be this, you know, inflammatory response because you're, you know, you're destroying kind of the bad guys, if you will.

And that usually looks like, a cold or a flu for several days at most. And we just recommend that in the rare instance that that people develop Herc, swimmers just drink a lot of water, stay hydrated.

At least about half of your body weight in ounces of water a day. And if you feel that you need to rest, rest. And we've not had any any problems, beyond that.

And so it's a it's just it's a fascinating therapy and it seems so simple, which it is, but yet it's it's been very effective. Okay. Well, our listeners are probably thinking like, maybe I'd like to investigate this.

So, how would our listeners investigate, access to true dose? That's right. You can go to to, Trudeau's, dot com and, and, and and it's t r u d o s e and that website will give you a lot of information, and we'll also direct you to centers around the country.

Excellent. Again, that's true dossier.com. And if they want to come see you Doctor Jackson how would they find you? So, likewise, if you, go to that website, you'll see, my, my center's, and you can also reach out to, to me at, a Jackson, at the body, health care.com.

Okay. Doctor Jackson, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for chatting with me today. Thank you, Doctor Wells. It's been a pleasure.

Avery Jackson

Platelet Therapy: How Your Own Cells Heal You