Why is mold such a big problem today? Yeah. So I think one, from one standpoint, people, we're already nutritionally more deficient than perhaps earlier generations where this our soil is nutritionally depleted.

So we go to the store, we grab food. Many people don't even cook their own food these days, right? So there's a huge nutritional depletion. So the body, each cell can actually operate the way it was designed to.

It's already at a deficit, maybe energetically it's at a deficit. So now You have a home that was not built to the standards that maybe they were built to in earlier eras.

I'll give an example. One of my friends was saying that an architect used to design a home and when they would design a home with what they were taught, it always had something to do with not just structural, but also functional mechanisms of the home.

And now we've come into an era where a lot of times it's just the architect puts their stamp on it, but it's this, you know, it's a developer who's just mass developing homes and is not taking in any account of the materials that are being used.

Where would moisture build up? Can we use more moisture proof? you know, things in those areas, is the house able to breathe? A lot of times we're sealing up these homes now.

Why is it that people lived for hundreds of years in Venice on the water, right, but everyone wasn't walking around mycotoxic? Well, because the homes breathe, the air would flow through the home.

This is Dr. Talks. All right, man, I'm so glad I get to talk with you. This is our first interview together. We've known each other for five or six years.

Close, yeah. We've had many late night conversations about really interesting health problems. Whether it be Lyme, mold, vaccines, medications, we've gone deep.

So today I want to talk about some of the main causes of chronic illness and what you're seeing being effective to help them and just to kind of niche it down a little bit more.

I'm talking about the complex chronic illness people that have been to 15 other doctors. You're an MD that sees the functional, the alternative, the Western med, you know a little bit or maybe a lot of bit about all of it.

So let's deep dive. What What's your passion toxin to talk about? I'm going to take a quick step back and hone in on the toxin. After I lay this foundation, the doctor, one of the doctors who trained me, Dr.

Jeremy Caslow, I really appreciate him for giving me this tool is when you're looking at chronic disease imbalance in the body, there's usually these root causes he finds disease six root mechanisms of disease.

So nutritional imbalance, right, there's something in your body that's not coming in, or there's something that needs to be removed. That's, that's a trigger at that time.

There's a toxin that needs to be removed. That's a barrier for your body's innate ability to heal. So you've got to get rid of that heavy metal, that chemical, that mycotoxin or mold toxin.

And once that's out of the way, then the body can start to regenerate. We look at psycho-emotional imprints. We look at infectious disease agents. That would be, you can say fungus or mold.

The mold releases mycotoxins. You could look at parasites, viruses, bacteria. So that whole category, again, things that come in the body completing this inflammation state that the body can't recover from because it's been knocked down by other things, right?

This compounding. cycle of chronic disease. Genetics plays a part. You may have some genetic predispositions because your genes don't allow you to maybe assimilate certain things, or they may be not able to operate in a way that's providing you with a protective mechanism.

And then the last would be structural. So if your body is not in a state where it can communicate one organ to another, the brain sending nervous system signals or receiving them, then you're not going to heal well.

So we look at those six causes, those six root mechanisms. If we were to hone in on the toxic part, I would say the world we live in today is by far more toxic than it was 100 years ago, or a thousand years ago.

And I think the diseases that we're seeing are probably more complex. I have a friend of mine, Sharon, she's a iridologist. She was like, Charles, in the last few years, she's like, I've been stumped in ways I've never felt before.

She's like, I always felt like I had an answer for what someone was dealing with. And she was like, now I have to go back to the drawing board a lot more.

And we've been inundated by all kinds of things and mold is exponentially growing right now. We have these frequencies that are feeding mold. We have, unfortunately, improper building mechanisms that are feeding it.

So mold, you asked the question, is there one to focus on? I would say that's a huge one for me. Yes, we all have some exposure to multiple different chemical toxins and metals as well, but I have seen some of my sickest clients are the mycotoxic patients.

I'd have to agree with that. And I love the place you came from with the six mechanisms because it's more inclusive. And it shows you that it's not just likely one problem, even though mold can be one problem that will knock you off your feet pretty, pretty quickly.

And I'm seeing so much more mold today than I ever thought was possible in the past. And I do think that The common thing that people say to me is, well, mold's everywhere.

Mold's in every house. Mold's been around forever. How could it now just be a problem? So I've got a lot to say on that, but I'm interviewing you today.

Why is mold such a big problem today? Yeah. So I think from one standpoint, people, we're already nutritionally more deficient than perhaps earlier generations where our soil is nutritionally depleted.

It's already at a deficit, maybe energetically it's at a deficit. So now You have a home that was not built to the standards that maybe they were built to in earlier eras.

And now we've come into an era where a lot of times it's just the architect puts their stamp on it, but it's a developer who's just mass developing homes and is not taking in any account of the materials that are being used.

Where would moisture build up? Can we use more moisture proof? you know, things in those areas as a house able to breathe. A lot of times we're sealing up these homes now.

Why is it that people lived for hundreds of years in Venice on the water, right, but everyone wasn't walking around mycotoxic? Well, because the homes breathe, the air would flow through the home.

So those are some Some of the reasons I think that are contributors on top of that, yes, at least here in the US, we're bombarded with many chemical toxins that are put into the food during the agricultural stage or in the preservatives, a lot of artificial colorings and dyes and flavorings.

So you add that, that's another layer to add on top. And then I would say, recently in the last four years, I guess now is really 2020, was when the big 5G rollout started to happen.

And I think any of these artificial frequencies could probably feed mold to some degree, but 5G seems to be a big one. And there is a building biologist who was discussing with me as an engineer.

And he said, you know what, it definitely accelerates mold growth in the home when you have 5G frequencies near the house. not only in the home, but if you're colonized, if it gets into your body, it's going to grow throughout the body more rapidly or be more difficult to eradicate.

So I think there's multiple layers there why we see so much more illness with mold. So yes, mold is in every house and mold is in every building. But you are more susceptible to mold today.

And today's building practices are far worse for allowing mold to one just be breathed out of the house, the mycotoxins, the toxins within. But secondly, like you said, they close houses up, they're energy efficient.

Well, we're not going to use so much energy, which is great. We're not going to pollute the planet except Now there's very little air exchange out of your home.

So I think those are some really, really good points. And when it comes to mold toxicity, I know I love running a ton of labs, because it helps me to communicate to people the importance of might be here because it's a big ask to, to talk to somebody about mold.

It's a big ask when I'm like, Hey, I think you might have a mold toxicity. Here's your blood work that shows some inflammation because there's not a lot of great blood work mold tests.

So I'm going, okay, now we need to run a urine test to see if it's coming out of you. And I see mold coming out of you. So that's like, okay, there's that.

Well, then where does it come from? Is it the house you live in today? Was it the house you used to live in? Is it your car, your school, your job? So we've got to figure out the where.

And if it's your house and you have a ton of inflammation, so your C-reactive protein is up because, and your doc said, oh, you know, you're over a 10. You might need to go to the rheumatologist and see if you have an autoimmune disease.

but it also could just be that there's something causing inflammation to you. So when you get that test back that says there's mold in your home, I need to have good evidence to tell you, you've got to do something about this because it can be expensive.

You might have to move. So are there tests that you like to run? Yeah. So first of all, I would encourage people, first of all, test yourself, right? Because you're the one that's manifesting symptoms, that person's the one that's manifesting symptoms, that's saying something's off, it's brain fog, it's fatigue, it's, you know, muscle aches and pains.

Sometimes it gets really weird, like these vibrations, internal vibrations, or Shock like sensation. These are things that I my wife went through this so it living it Personally like me I did have some mold toxicity that caused skin inflammation brain fog fatigue, but my wife had severe insomnia so I tell you if it wasn't for you know saying man like I understand why People will go to a doctor the doctor were like, you know what you need a psych med, you know It's like no you don't what you're feeling is real like what you feel is real those it's because your body is so inflamed and it's been hijacked by this toxin that has come in and now creating these odd symptoms.

So what's the next step? We'll test yourself. Yes, you could go test at home, but I say test yourself first. So I usually recommend doing a provocation test.

with glutathione, or you could do a sauna, you could jump up and down on a trampoline or a rebounder, and at the end of the day, it's going to provoke some of those toxins to leave the cells, and then it allows you to get a better idea of what's actually being held in the cells.

boom, you see the different mycotoxins that are listed. And then you can say, okay, where are these likely? Are these in cereal grains, which a lot of times they are coffee, but a lot of times it's in the building structure.

And that's what you'll find the most common times that the most common illnesses that you'll see are linked to these. moisture damaged buildings, and like you said, a lot of times it's an office, and that's, that's a difficult one is the office space, how do you, how do you manage that I have some patients who have been able to write some notes for and they've been able to, you know, be accommodated, but you have to get out of the environment.

And that can be challenging. It can be challenging sometimes with the spouse. The spouse may say, Hey, you're overreacting. This is not why am I not sick, you know, if it's really the mold and it's the moldy house, right.

And so that's a that's a piece to walk through. But I can see, you know, when they get on board and the spouse gets behind them and massive improvements that you can see.

So, yeah, yeah. You know, you talked about doing a provocation test. So you're pushing the toxin out so you can potentially see it, which gives you that evidence.

And oftentimes with spouses, yeah, that is a big conversation of, well, it's in you. It's in me. You feel bad. I don't. It can be that. Are there some reasons why the one spouse may and one may not have problems?

You know, that's a good question. I would suggest that earlier, you know, the six mechanisms of disease that I mentioned has a big part to play because if you have imbalances in one of those six roots and the other person doesn't, that could be a big piece of it.

Maybe your heavy metals are really high. Maybe your parasitic load is really high. Maybe emotional imbalance is off. There were some things that happened earlier in life that set up a place where you were more susceptible to receive this mold and have it hijack your system.

So there, I think there's multiple factors. One thing I have observed, and this is something that I'd love to have more of a conversation with other practitioners about is I do see that a majority of my population are female.

Now, I do have males who are definitely have been completely thrown off, unable to work, you know, that sort of a thing. But by far and away, it could be the mentality of a man just going to muscle through it, you know, I don't need to see a doctor.

Yeah, exactly. Right. And so where the female is more sensitive to the idea that something is wrong, and I need to get my health better. So that could be it, but I do see a distribution there.

So it has brought up the question in my mind is, maybe there's a hormonal component to it as well. I don't want to dismiss it, but I do think it may be a little bit more of the psychological aspect of a male just saying, no, I'm just going to push through this.

I'm OK. I can figure it out. But I have some questions that I love to chat more with others and see what their thoughts are on that, too. I have actually developed a question list I present to clients of personality types because I don't think it's necessarily male versus female.

Wow. Yes, I've seen a lot more women. Yes, a few men, but there are personality types. So I'll ask in my intake, would anyone ever have described you as perfectionistic, OCD, people pleasing?

A type. And if you have any of those descriptors, you're just a little more detailed than the rest of us. I'm not that way. I've been around mold. It doesn't bother me as much.

It can. I will notice it over time. But a person that has those characteristics oftentimes will notice it quicker and it will take them down faster. And my just general observation of this is people with those characteristics oftentimes are carrying a little bit more of a load.

Yeah. And we need those people. I love sometimes having those people in my life because they help me to just take care of myself and get more done. But.

when they're carrying a little bit more of that load, I just say this to them, I go you get let's say just 100 points in a day that you can spend on life.

Wow. And in that 50 of them are probably just subconscious digestion breathing functioning. People with those personality types probably spend 10 or 15 points more than I do thinking about the details in life, but I just don't.

I just walk right on by. And, you know, to my mom or other people that have observed me, that glass that I left there for three days or the dishes in the sink that don't get done quite as rapidly as they should be, just doesn't phase me.

So I'm like carrying the weight of that being on my mind. So I've seen that personality type be a little bit more susceptible. And then I also think that I've seen a lot of patterning where women when they're going into their cycle, their symptoms flare.

So I will actually pull people away from their protocols two days before their cycle is supposed to hit and leave them off for the first two days of their cycle.

Because what's happening during a cycle? women are processing a lot of hormones. There's some changes with inflammation in their body. It's almost a purging that's taking place too.

So yeah, yeah. So during that period of time of the month, and for some women, there's during ovulation, and you can kind of look through a Dutch test or a cycle mapping, you can kind of correlate when hormones are off a little bit to when symptoms are flaring.

Wow. So I think there's a personality piece that can be a little bit more of a weight. Yep. And again, there's no judgment on that personality. It's just that if there's something that's taking energy that is not from someone else, then it's going to make you potentially more vulnerable.

If your cycle is hitting and your body is shifting energy to the uterus away from, say, the rest of your tissues, you're going to require more effort there.

Wow. That's that's an amazing insight. Yeah. And I would say 100% with personality type, my wife and I, complete opposites in many ways there. And she's definitely more like, okay, what's the next thing on the to-do list that needs to be knocked out?

And I'm more like, hey, stop and smell the roses. And that was a big piece, I think, of her healing journey was saying, it's okay to let things go. It's okay to just stop for a little bit, breathe, take a nap.

And that was a big shift, I think, for her coming through this illness for her. And what do they teach you in all of these online programs, all of these therapy programs, all of these retreat centers, right?

They teach you to prioritize, create boundaries, let the small stuff go, figure out where your value lies with what really truly matters to you. And if it's the dishes, it can be the dishes, but it never was for me, right?

When I'm left to my own devices, just for everybody to laugh at me right now, As a single man, I would have one plate, one fork, one cup. Oh, that's smart.

And I would always just immediately clean it because if I didn't and I would use multiples, I'd have a sink full of dishes or a dishwasher full of dishes that never wanted to get changed.

So then I just figured out like this works for me. That's brilliant. And it's just trying to figure out what works for you. And so many of the clients that I have come in that are dealing with chronic illness issues, have that sort of personality.

And by the way, here's the other part of it that I've really run into. Many of them may not have been that way before. They moved into a moldy home as a, you know, that just fly by to see their pants kind of person.

Their health started to crash. Their body got into a fight or flight state. It messed with their neurotransmitters. And now they have turned into a health perfectionist.

more anxious, which is actually detrimental to them once they've actually identified the problem to identify the problem. Sometimes you have to do that.

You've got to be your own advocate. You've got to push the doctors. You've got to find the reason. But once you've got it, then it's just like, okay, I got to take a step back.

And I've got to just let my body relax, turn the dial back down. I can't be in the all time danger, fight or flight or running from a bear. Because as long as you're running from a bear, the only thing you care about is that next step.

When you stop running from the bear, because you got away. Now you can worry about know, going to the bathroom, taking a poop, you're not constipated anymore.

Yeah, you can eat food and digest it. So you're not bloated anymore. Parasympathetic. Yeah. So there's a lot to that nervous system dysregulation. Yes, that's huge.

That's huge. And healing really doesn't take place. when you're not in that rest and digest phase. So that's a huge piece. And I think that that ties into the limbic system part, which, you know, a lot you'll hear a lot of more professionals talking about this, but it's a key piece that can't be overlooked.

You can't supplement. I don't think you can supplement for limbic system dysfunction. You've got to teach people or find ways to teach people how to get back into a place where your body is safe.

And at a subconscious level, it knows that it's safe and can actually go into a healing state. So I know some people would argue that there aren't supplements for that.

But what I would say is they're not going to do it alone. Yes. And I've seen people try everything from Hiawaska to ketamine to psilocybin. I've seen people have tried everything.

And although some of those tools are highly effective at in the moment, making the shift It doesn't create new habits. You still have to do the work. Yeah, it does not create new habits with how you process the world around you.

I know that I've had people in my life that didn't know how to have boundaries and were pushing on me and stressing me out. And until I learned how to, one, not allow it to bother me as much, and two, how to create appropriate boundaries, that stress was still there.

And there's no supplement that can fix that. So I think for those people that have that fight or flight state, so if you're listening right now and your shoulders are creeping up, you're leaning forward and they're pulling in, you're a little uncomfortable because you feel like you're being attacked.

You're getting mad at me for saying that a perfectionist might have a little more susceptibility. That's when I say just kind of take a take a step back from you.

Yeah, and then just do an internal audit and go. What is beneficial for me in life? What gives me more value and more health and what doesn't? Yeah. Yeah.

I think right now, more than ever, people are I say more than ever, because I feel like the last few years, I've seen this shift of a bit of a sense more for longing of connection.

Maybe this is the digital world, maybe this is the AI, you know, the rush is all in this way where I think we've become a little bit more fragmented even than we already are here in the US.

You go to other cultures and they do seem to be A little less so, and maybe that's because of. I don't know the delay with some of the technology I'm not exactly sure I when I was in India it was crazy to see, you know how people just sit together in Africa.

I guys would come. over to another guy that was a buddy of theirs and sit right here, you know, down and one guy sitting on the couch and the other guy sitting right here between his legs and it's just like, they're just chatting it up, you know, just like, whoa.

But you know, the thing I love about what I saw in these cultures was there was a lot of human connectedness, you know, and I feel like that's a big piece also of that what we're talking about getting to that deeper layer of limbics dysfunction are getting out of away from fight or flight is we've got to find that place within us where we start to feel connected again and community because I think we do heal and community also not as isolated islands you know.

So, I want to, I want to point that out because I feel like just like you alluded to. It is not just one thing. It's not just that's the supplement or it's not just that's the practice that you need to adopt or you need to get out of the it's it is it is a basket of things that we're trying to hand this basket of tools and then coach and walk you through utilizing all of these things.

So well, you have your six root mechanisms that you're trained in. And I don't say it the same way. But in my note, when you walk into my clinic, You fill out all of this information, like you do with any clinic, but I'm asking about your dental history, your testing of mold or radon in your basement, your past trauma, your sensitivity to supplements, your, of course, supplements and meds, and all the normal questions and surgeries and histories that you've done.

We're also asking what has and hasn't worked and what you haven't had and reacted to, so we can just understand you. But then there's a systematic note that we've put together that helps us as practitioners to just not forget to ask certain questions and to address certain pieces.

And one of those things is do you live in an environment that is safe? Wow. Because if you don't live in an environment that is safe, then how can you expect for your body to get well to rest?

So air, food, water, hygiene, dental, and implants, which I guess those are not necessarily the place you live, but they are pieces. Yeah. I could add in there the people that you're around.

These are all pieces of the puzzle that are artificial or external to your body that may have been placed in your body, but can make your body feel unsafe.

If you have an implant, whether that be a tooth implant, a kneecap implant, a breast implant, I've seen somebody react to all of those. I had a client break her hand, went to the surgeon, the surgeon put a plate on there just like they do, nothing wrong with that, that's standard practice, it's titanium.

Nobody would think anything of it, I didn't think anything of it except in a previous case I'd had a person who came in and was having what would be described as an allergic reaction to titanium.

which is pretty well unheard of. So this client comes in and I see it and it's like literally the skin is bubbling up off of where the metal plate was placed.

I'm like, well, it's kind of hard to argue with what that could potentially be. So I pull out a homeopathic for titanium that I'd gotten for the client with the kneecap five years earlier and hadn't touched since.

It's just for that moment. This is that moment. And I give it to her and she comes back a week later. The bubbling stops cancer healing. Huh? She went to her surgeon.

So she said, that's impossible. Hmm. And this is a spry lady. She was 69 years old. She had just been through breast cancer. She called herself something Barbie, senior Barbie, senior Barbie.

And I mean, she was just fun. She called herself senior Barbie because she got all reconstructed. There's another implant. We're not going there right now.

And so she stopped taking the titanium homeopathic, let it go a week. bubbling up again, barges into our surgeon's office. Not because she was mad at him, just because she wanted to prove to him it could happen.

And he was cool about it. He walked out, he's like, huh. What's that doctor's name? I need his number in case it ever happens again. Keep taking it. And as soon as the bone heals, we'll remove it.

Wow. And I was just like, I like the surgeon. Yeah, because he's at least open. That's right. And she proved to me again that the body can identify anything as a problem.

So if you have any kind of implant or external artificial thing, it's probably not causing a problem, but it could. So we look at that. And then from there we go, do you feel safe once your environment is safe?

Wow. So whether it's you lived in a moldy house and now you feel like every house has mold, we got to do some work because you can't fear your sanctuary that you live in.

Once we deal with that, then we go deficiencies. Do you have the nutritional deficiencies like you said? So we've got to go on there and go, if there's some starting things like, for instance, vitamin D or B12 or folate or potassium that you're missing, we need to look at which ones are gonna make the greatest change because I'm also not gonna give you 30 of them if you came back deficient in everything.

We're not giving you 30. We're gonna pick what we need and then we're gonna go into your protocol and get the body operating. So it drops out to where the practitioners that work with me, just don't forget those things.

It's asked every single time we talk to you, I love to make sure that it's checkmark marked. It's also, you know, pre written in there to where we just had to put a couple words so that we're not spending too much time, you know, typing and not talking to you so we can spend time with you.

And that allows for us to have that systematically custom approach to whatever you're going through. I love that. And that you know you're not missing anything.

And that's a big piece often. I feel like sometimes the hangup is the practitioner is like, well, just take this supplement. But there's all the other things that they forgot to check or the other stones that were missed where they were not turned over.

And so that's a huge piece, I think, is having that systematized yet customized approach. Well, it's interesting. You get your providers that you see that everybody gets the same thing.

So they they feel like they got it, which is not custom, but it's systematized. And then you got your providers over here who are the wild cards of the profession.

And they're always at the cutting edge of everything. And they've got it. And it's the new shiny object syndrome. You got to remember your basics. And they forget this other stuff.

And I'm like, how do I bring the systematic to the custom so that we end up with results? And I love the six root mechanisms because that's really where my brain is coming from too.

So we spent a lot of time talking about the mechanisms and how a person could be more vulnerable to mold than just the person living in their home. Is there anything else that you've seen that's just really effective for these people?

We talked about the nervous system. We've talked about making sure they live in that safe place. Are there protocols that you've seen to be effective for that colonization?

You know, one of the most common places that we see colonization arise is the sinus cavity. It's a perfect setup for, it's warm, it's moist, it's easy access for mold spores and they can just take up space there.

So, definitely, along with the systemic approach, you know, to get the body releasing removing the micro toxins. If there is actually a mold or fungus that is releasing these micro toxins that is set up space there you've got to make sure that you get rid of that.

So I generally will do some sort of nasal sinus approach along with a systemic approach. For most clients, you can do some tests to see if they're colonized or not.

But I can ask a couple of questions, like if you have sinus drainage, if you have like a chronic cough, if you tend to wake up in the morning and you have to clear a lot of mucus or you're blowing your nose.

in the morning to get clear, or sometimes throughout the day, that can be a sign. But there are some people who don't have a sign. So sometimes if I just have a good history that goes along with someone having been in a moldy environment for a long time, I'm just going to assume that.

And often I will just say, because it's so easy to add on, let's just do a little bit of some of the sinus clearing anyway, just in case there's some colonization that's beginning.

You can use some very simple remedies. I have one that I use for kids that involves nebulizing. Then I have one that's a nasal spray for adults. You got to do it for a little while to get it to take to work and then you're done.

You move past that stage and you're on to the next. I love seeing one of the things I would say that I I learned the most from my patients. And so being able to find this is something that worked for me.

And then boom, that's in my head. And when I see this person, I was like, OK, there's so many similarities in this case. Let's use this along with what we are normally using.

And then boom, they're like, wow. So I love having my clients as teachers as well. It's a big piece of the puzzle for me. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Charles, this has been a fun conversation.

Always love catching up, man. Yeah. Thanks for joining me today. Yeah, thank you for the invitation, David. Thank you for tuning into Dr. Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health.

Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website, www. DrTalks.com.

Stay connected, stay healthy, and join us next time on Doctor Talks, real talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.

Charles Penick, MD

Hidden Toxins, Stressed Homes & Sick Bodies: The Mold Connection