Opening on Fight-or-Flight and Family Systems

I would go into, again, so like I think I'm just a divergent thinker. So because I would, as soon as somebody has the sense of I'm not enough, that's already an indicator that the nervous system is in fight or flight.

And then they will go into one of these five behaviors. It can be aggression, withdrawal, over-functioning, victim, or triangulation. And triangulation is like usually substances.

And that's straight out of Bowen family systems theory. If you, everybody has the same buttons on their chest that will send the body into fight or flight and that is, I'm not lovable or I'm alone.

I'm not as I should be, or I am not enough. And so if anything happens to press one of those buttons, the body, it could be real or perceived, the body will send you into fight or flight and then automatically will go down to one of those lower functions.

This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most. Welcome to another episode of the Recharged Biomedical Podcast.

I'm your host, Dr. Ed Park, and today we're joined by Christine Kohler. Hi, Christine. Hello. So we met a little less than a week ago in Austin at the day of spree dying, and they had a wonderful booth in the corner of the VIP.

I saw this wonderful person playing the gong with a friction mallet, which I made by, by the way. I really liked it. And they were doing acupuncture for people.

And you know, people were signing up for the free needle acupuncture. And so I was kind of scared. And so she was like, oh, you could do it. And then Martha, her partner, was like, oh, you could do it.

So I did it. And it was a really nice experience. I got to say I don't understand acupuncture as much as I should. So maybe she can explain it. But interestingly, she's been on a path as a therapist for people for 15 years.

Meeting Christine and the Five-Needle Protocol

And now she and Martha and the gentleman's name again? John Harvey. Yeah. They got the Texas State Board to recognize that people can do this anti-addiction sort of health acupuncture without all the other meridians and not call it full licensure for oriental medicine.

Right? Correct. Yes. Anybody with a mental health license. can be trained to do the five needle protocol. Just the five needle. So you are trying to not monetize this, but just give access to a lot of people.

Basic training, five things in the ear. And what's it do for people in your experience? And this is like a recent law change, right? Like just last year?

Yeah. So in 2023, we went to, I mean, Martha and John, you know, really sat down, rewrote the law to expand the treatment because before this law was changed, you could only receive the five needle protocol if you were in, if you had a substance use disorder.

So it was typically only used in, in treatment centers for detox. But it's so much more powerful that they really felt strongly about opening up access to where anybody in the general public can receive.

petitioning the law to allow tearing down of a barrier to entry both, you know, professionally and monetarily for people in the service of good. That's really amazing.

I mean, I was like, there is no nobler mission than the one that I ran into when I met Martha and John. I was like, this is the most noble, most humanitarian cause I've ever encountered.

And I was like, Sign me up because it's just about healing. It's about community. It's about shared experience. It's about gentleness. And it's a yin replenishing practice.

And so… No, for sure. When you were doing the gong with the… the egg crazy egg or I don't know if it was the other one but I was like I could feel my body vibrating with it and expanding like the field expanding so that was kind of cool I was like what's going on but I think that there are things that we just did a webinar this week about yoga, Ayurveda and they have their own sort of science of the body's energy which is interesting so I wonder You know, with the Western, the Indian, the Oriental tradition, whether there's some kind of ways that you can hijack the electrical system of the body, I guess that is what…

Are you a fully licensed OMD or just do the ear thing right now? So my license is Licensed Professional Counselor Supervisor. And the credential for the acupuncture is the Acudetox Specialist or Acupuncture Detoxification Specialist.

And so it's a permit that allows me to administer just the five needle protocol on anyone for any reason at any time, pretty much anywhere. So John and Martha got this together.

And so it's a really easy turnkey solution for any allied health professional that wants to help. You're not doing all the other stuff, just the ear, right?

Safe and- Right. You don't need to diagnose anything to receive the benefits. You don't need to be selected to receive the benefits. You don't have to do anything.

And because we're in a mental health crisis, there's very long wait lists to receive services. And this is something that like, Say, for example, a community agency could offer to their waitlisted clients to say, hey, we don't have an individual therapist for you, but right now, you know, you could come to our weekly acupuncture group and it's less than a dollar per treatment.

Dollar per treatment. Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. So the website is 5DSTexas or what is that? It's 5NP, like the number 5NP needle protocol. So 5NPtexas.com.

Perfect. And that will, they can find a local referral in Texas for somebody who's doing it. And they're all sterile needles. It's not like back alley stuff.

It's they're trained in a very specific protocol. And so the philosophy on a larger level is that how does it help clear addiction or make people peaceful?

It's so interesting, but that's what I love most about it is because the first point is it enters right here on the ear, and that helps to bring the body out of fight or flight.

So ultimately, the very first thing that you experience is a regulation of the nervous system, which is key to everything else that your body does, and it's key to everything else that your brain can do.

You cannot access the prefrontal cortex of the brain if you're in fight or flight. So you're measuring like heart rate variability and heart rate and vagal tone that would be increased probably in that instance.

I believe so. And even sometimes the first needle goes in and you might even hear like a little crunch. And so in my mind, I think it also has to do with fascia, which is where I believe the meridians travel along the fascia.

How Ear Acupuncture Regulates the Nervous System

And so there's something that it's interacting with the nerves and the fascia that that signals something to the nervous system. I mean, it's ancient.

It's been around for 5,000 years. Acupuncture has and you don't need to understand it for it to work. Yeah, I love that. You don't need to understand it for it to work.

So over the three days, I saw plenty of people sitting and they all looked super blissed out. Nobody was complaining or crying. What are the other four needle points on the ear?

Okay, so the second point is Shen Men. So that's up here, it's called the Spirit Gate. Some people would call it like Heaven's Gate. So now your nervous system is becoming out of fight or flight.

And now the Shen Men begins to calm your emotions. And then you have your kidney, liver, lung. It's a detoxifying treatment. So you will be detoxifying those organs as well as the emotions that correspond, which is anxiety, anger, and grief.

Amazing. So sometimes people will cry because they'll I can imagine it's very cathartic. Yeah without any without any verbal processing they can get to some very interesting emotional processing.

I was like it can stimulate like a kundalini sort of awakening almost yeah amazing. So it's the chi energy being unblocked is one of the ways to look at it you know the life force energy Yeah.

No, it's all about that. Yeah. So last week we talked about that model and the breathing and, but it's interesting. I'm trying to get a guest on who I ran into and she does sound healing, which I think is also very interesting that people.

Myself, I always work with music because it helps to regulate. But yeah, no, we could get a little intense in our thoughts, can't we? So it's nice to have sleep and it's nice to have good music and now we have people.

It's very good. Also the five needle protocol. It's very good for addiction, trauma, chronic pain, anxiety, depression, insomnia. and it's like a factory reset for people like the five np texas will explain where to go how to get it okay so it kind of a one-size-fits-all panacea just to kind of get you blissed out and reset and then reboot okay yeah that's amazing i mean i i can testify i went into it without any beliefs i was very scared but it did feel really good But let's talk about your career as a child, early childhood educator.

So I know I was trying to decipher the Hebrew, Hebrew, but I think it's Aramaic. That's why I couldn't really read it. It says Yeshua, right? Yeshua. Yeah.

So you're, that's of course the Aramaic name of Jesus and you have a Sunday school. You're a Sunday school teacher that over there in Fisco. I used to be for for like 12 or well actually it was more like 14 years my husband and I were in the pre-k Sunday school ministry we were some shepherding I mean so because we didn't have any children of our own so I got to see like 15 cohorts of four-year-olds What an interesting thing.

And so what is your impression of how the family's doing these days now that you got oftentimes dual income and they can't afford children or they're just struggling to make ends meet?

How do we get to this place and the families and how does it work it out? Because I think a lot of people are stressed and feeling unfulfilled and slightly despondent.

Like what happened?

Family Stress, Technology, and Childhood Development

I totally agree with you and you know a few different things happened that I've been able to put my finger on and I would say the very first thing that shifted you know I'm a kid of the 70s and so the very first thing to me that shifted before technology came forth was convenience began to be a larger and larger commodity.

So when convenience became such a huge value, anything that was inconvenient was less valuable. But unfortunately, when things are inconvenient, they often have greater meaning, you know, a lot of times it's one of those existential, you know, tensions.

And so I think convenience being so important to our family system, the way it operates, whether it's food or shopping or, you know, transportation, whatever.

And then with the technology, I think that made a huge difference in what it is to be together. I mean, you can literally be together, but not connected.

It's a really- Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. Good points. Like the dopamine addiction from the devices, we were just at dinner last night, an amazing meal.

And I looked over and two out of the four people at the adjacent table were on their phones during dinner. Which, you know, for people of a certain age would be considered rude.

But beyond that, you're right. Having to go through the rituals of life, preparing the meal, going to the market, it has me. So when you rip open the package and microwave it for 90 seconds, the ritual is gone.

And perhaps maybe even the family bonding and the meaning of that is gone. Yeah. Yeah, I love how you say that because one of the common themes of before there was so much technology is that children had a very important role in the family for the family to operate.

So it was not doable for the child to to just, you know, be a passive observer. They were helping with the gardening. They were helping with, you know, maintaining whatever, you know, inside the household.

And so they had a special understanding of their significance in the family system. I feel very called out on that because we never gave our kids chores and that would have been a really good thing to do.

But they learned the consequences of actions in different ways. But I think that it's so important because I think children and the early childhood, they have sort of a need to be delighted in, to be adored.

and then they have to understand their familial structure. And it just seems, it reminds me of that, I think it's War and Peace, or I don't know, Anna Karenina, I don't know, some great line of the novel said, all families are happy in the same way, and all unhappy families are unhappy in their own unique way, something like that.

But I think there needs to be a sort of structure. If you're going to go nuclear, I mean, there's many kinds of non-traditional families, and that's fine.

But there needs to be structure. And now I see that there's so much of dopamine addiction in the devices for the kids. And people also have no shared common cultural norms, whether it come to even like sexual pairing, but even the idea of what their responsibilities are in a relationship.

Like, we're long past Ozzie and Harriet, and even beyond the Brady Bunch. I mean, it's all just a free-for-all out there, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, and I think, you know, it's easy to think that there's sort of a blanket, you know, like a blueprint for families, but I mean, I think it's just much more complex than that, you know?

It's a sense of how you belong, really. So you don't have to learn belonging through doing chores, but there is some, something needs to happen for children to learn belonging.

something needs to happen for them to feel a sense of significance, like that they make a difference. And so that's why you have, you know, 10 year olds presenting for, for therapy for suicidal ideation, you know, saying like that they, you know, they don't know, understand the meaning of, of existence, like what are they here for?

Um, so I think just the development of the psyche is just so complicated, you know, individual, so complex. I break it up into like the first three years, and then up until seven, eight years, and then adolescence, and then extended adolescence, which for many people, depending on the level of their perceived trauma, can persist till they die.

So I just was talking to some people about whether, you know, I wrote this thing 10 years ago about how to save the world, and one of the fundamental rights was people should have the right to have parents.

But now that I think and look back on the culture, so many people blame their parents for being this to this or to that. It could be the same axis. And they're just stuck because there's been this elevation of self victimization in the culture.

And it's not that people don't experience trauma or victimization, but it's become subsumed as part of their identity, their whole reason for being in their MO.

So it's really sad. So I kind of switched on that yesterday when we were talking. Maybe it's better to not have nuclear parents. Maybe Walmart should raise you with a hundred other kids that are your brothers and sisters.

And the only chore you have to do is, you know, inventory and, you know, order fulfillment. I don't know. What do you think? You think the gene race would be different if we didn't have mom and dad?

Well, I would go with a slightly different take on that. So because like there's, there's assumptions that are unspoken when we have dialogues like this.

And so when the first word that pops out for me is blame, okay, so like, oh, somebody will blame their parents. And so, so but to me, blame is really only something that happens when we feel powerless.

And so we only blame and attack when we feel powerless. And so my question to any kid that's blaming anyone for anything is, what is it about your life that leads you to feel powerless?

And then my next question is, what would help you to feel empowered? Because it's just a feeling. It's just a feeling. It doesn't necessarily mean it's real.

And so to feel empowered can allow a person to step into. So perhaps if they felt like they had some resilience, then they wouldn't have the need to blame and attack somebody for their own suffering.

You know, if we don't have meaning attached to suffering, then there is no place for it to go. You know, so I mean, but you know, I think there's a personality type that kind of dwells on suffering, isn't there?

I mean, I remember I had a good friend from college, and he was at Harvard with me, and he had an older brother. And the older brother was in therapy as a young adult, like a 23-year-old.

And the reason was he felt like he had not achieved as much in life because the parents had so delighted in him that he didn't have that sense of need to fulfill.

And so you're thinking like, okay, you grew up very affluent, privileged, and yet your biggest gripe is that you didn't feel enough strive to achieve what you could have.

I mean, I can't win. Like, it's I gave you too much unconditional love and not enough, like, you better get into Harvard or I'm going to beat your ass.

Like, how is that a reason to spend $100 an hour or whatever it was on therapy, you know? We age because our telomeres shorten and our stem cells deplete.

Blame, Powerlessness, and Emotional Reasoning

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I would go into it again. So like, I think I'm just a divergent thinker. So, cause I would, as soon as somebody has the sense of I'm not enough, that's already an indicator that the nervous system is in fight or flight.

And then they will go into one of these five behaviors. It can be aggression. withdrawal, over-functioning, victim, or triangulation. And triangulation is like usually substances.

And that's straight out of Bowen family systems theory. So if everybody has the same buttons on their chest that will send the body into fight or flight, and that is, I'm not lovable or I'm alone, I'm not as I should be, or I am not enough.

And so if anything happens to press one of those buttons, the body, it could be real or perceived, the body will send you into fight or flight and then automatically will go down to one of those lower functions.

So it's distance, withdrawal, aggression. I so appreciate you breaking it down. That makes a lot of sense. I have to visit that Bowen family systems. But, you know, I know people myself probably included to an extent who this becomes their default mode network of their story becomes their identity and their MO.

And even though they can unpack it and look at it and laugh at it even at times. I can't help but think there's something going on in the addictive nature of, you know, just grounding yourself with this incredibly charged victim story.

You think it's like a neurotransmitter? Agreed. And so what that is is a cognitive distortion that keeps the person stuck in emotional reasoning, which is I feel this way, therefore it must be true.

Yeah. And so because the culture, our culture absolutely will will validate that like the culture supports a person's you know originally like the gen z's like they're all like in their feels and like it's all about all feelings are real all feelings have it's like that what was that disney movie the feelings have feelings it's crazy like and feelings are just like electrically or emotionally charged bots and their stories So I think that's why a lot of people have reached out to entheogens and pathogens, psychedelics to kind of get out of their story for six hours or whatever.

Cause a lot of people, I know most people spend their whole lives in this crazy story that they keep on repeating to themselves. So we look out on AI being like stupid and hallucinating, but people spend a lot of their lives just hallucinating, right?

It's so interesting to think of one of the main interventions that I have when I have parents who bring their child in for therapy. One of our main interventions has to do with changing their language.

And my request to the family is please stop asking your child what they want. Because when you ask them what they want, you're encouraging them to tune into a feeling.

I'd rather that you ask them, what do they choose? Because when you ask them what they choose, they're tuning into an action, like they're tuning into a behavior.

There's a different, there's a separate energy between checking in with what you want and what you're going to choose. Yeah I know and isn't that the goal of parenting ultimately is to make yourself obsolete right so that they can be self-regulating and happy and make good decisions.

Yeah I mean we want them to use the gifts you know to be able to develop and use their gifts and talents for the benefit of themselves and everyone else you know we all can win like there's always a way to find a win-win situation.

I think a lot of people approach the parent child dyad or whatever as sort of like this intergenerational trauma bond playground where they're going to recapitulate the same garbage they had with their parents.

And it's just like sad. Like, you know, what do you think? Have you seen that? Like they marry their moms or dads and they have the same drama and it just like, it's boring after like a movie you've seen a hundred times.

Yeah, I think if we have emotional safety to explore how those patterns were put there, you know, how they emerge, if we have enough emotional safety in a relationship to be imperfect and explore that, I think you can step through and like walk through that to make a new meaning from an old experience.

But when, when there's not emotional safety or a growth mindset, you know, there's a, that Carol Dweck, Carol Dweck's research, you know, is you're becoming a new person every single day.

You're, you're not the same that you were yesterday. Like that guy's gone. And so if you have a growth mindset that you're always growing and always becoming somebody new, then it leads to new opportunities and possibilities to change an old paradigm and to make it your passion.

Yeah, I think that's the ultimate deal breaker because there are a lot of people who, you know, I was just at dinner with my younger son and his girlfriend and without them saying it, they both had that growth mindset.

And I think that's really a deal breaker for a lot of people.

Growth Mindset, Healing, and Clinician Burnout

I met a nice person in Austin and she's going through a divorce, a low conflict divorce, but I can sense that's the deal breaker too. It's like, if you're stuck and you like being stuck because it's comfortable and you don't want to see me grow and emerge, then I think that is kind of a deal breaker for a lot of people.

But a lot of people vibe at that frequency and they find other ways to be stable, you know. Because uncertainty is vulnerable. So the certainty is over here.

Uncertainty is over here. So if we're certain of who we are and that we're always going to be that way, we don't have to feel vulnerable. It's not as abstract.

It's a different kind of mask, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. Well, that's fascinating. It seems like you've garnered a lot of wisdom over the years. So you're helping people.

You're taking a little sabbatical, I know. What's that going to look like for you? So kind of to your point, Doc, is, you know, what we've created in terms of childhood in our culture, you know, we really kind of shifted how education works, how nutrition works, how entertainment works, how, you know, I mean, just so much has changed that I'm like, yeah, I don't know that I have the ability to help anyone in an hour a week.

So I decided instead to continue in a training capacity, so supervision and training for play therapists and others who want to learn the functional mental health approach.

And then beyond that, training 5NP to clinicians, nurses, mental health clinicians, and anyone who interacts with somebody who could benefit. I want to train more people to do the 5NP.

And we just finished applying for a grant, so opioid abatement. So we have a lot of big projects in the works for the Five Needle Protocol, 5NP Texas.

So lots of growth potential. I love to think about you know Tesla and how he says you know if you want to unlock the mysteries of the universe to think about things in frequency energy and vibration and so you know being fascinated by how the acupuncture works and then I was like oh let's pair it with the vibrations from the gong and like see if we can even amplify the healing potential of this modality and make it an even more, just a more profound like shared experience because I think shared experience is how we build community and that's how we can trust one another is like when we have like a really pleasant shared experience.

We just don't have that many anymore that way. Yeah, so you said the crazy egg is the colorful one and what was the other friction mallet? The crazy egg is more the high tone because I'm sorry I have a gong but I only use the marshmallow mallet but when you go in a circle it creates like a really resonant sort of penetrating tone which one would I if I have to get one which should I get the black one or this rainbowy one?

I mean, if you like to feel the vibrations in your chest, the way I do the black lava, the lava mallet. Okay. All right. I mean, you can get both of them at sun read instruments and you can get 10% off if you use the code beautiful.

Oh my God. Nice plug. Okay. Good. Sundry. Beautiful. All right. It's not my company, but I just… Very well done. Okay, Sunreet. Okay. Maybe they'll sponsor the show.

If I was plugging my own stuff, I would talk about the WaveWatch. Oh, okay. What is the WaveWatch? The WaveWatch. Linda Bammer is the inventor of the WaveWatch, and this is a thousand…

Basically, it's right frequencies that you just wear on your wrist. My God. But my code for that is NTN100, so… Are you manufacturing them? No, I'm just a huge…

So the reason that I got so big into the wavewatch is because as you probably have encountered with your patients, a lot of our children have an overload of parasites, or at least that's what they say can be responsible for some of their inflammation and their immune functioning is like overload of parasites.

And so the wavewatch is one way. It has parasite frequencies. because parents have been really exhausted trying to get their kids to take supplements.

Wow. Now that's cool. I like one of my colleagues, I went to his house and he has one of the original rife machines with the frequencies and the computer software.

So yeah, there's a lot out there that's coming soon. I met one lady who has like kind of an open source thing for frequency medicine in and around the head.

So yeah, you're definitely beaming in from the future, the Star Trek future there. You know what's crazy though? Apparently this this technology has been available since like the 40s, but it's been like Yeah, Royal Rife.

Yeah, it's been there. It's a press Yes, yeah. Yeah. Well, we shall talk any more about her. We'll get banned. All right. Well, hey, dr Kohler It was really nice to talk to you and meet you and you're just doing some really good work So keep on please Okay, well I'd like to interview you next, interview you next in here.

Yeah, because like the work that you're doing with your patients is pretty groundbreaking and you're hungry for knowledge in terms of like looking at a new parrot, looking at things from a different paradigms and.

Yeah, it's fun. Yesterday I interviewed one of the people I helped her train, and she's been treating a lot of people over the last two years for autism, and she was very measured in her selling of it, but I know for a fact that it is moving the needle for a lot of people.

But I feel like that's the whole purpose of the podcast. We talked to nutritional experts. We talked to mold experts a couple of weeks ago. He was telling us all about the stuff and the toxin.

So we're trying to put together pieces of puzzle. And I knew immediately upon meeting you, Martha and John, that you guys are a part of that puzzle. So thank you for being on the show.

Yes, and I hope that we can collaborate on some Pan's Pandas work in the near future because… I gotta talk to Nancy O'Hara about that. That keeps on coming up too, and there's a lot of stuff to go into there.

So I'll have to reread her book. But in the meantime, if people want to connect with you, I know you have the 5NP, Five Needle Points Texas, that'll get them started.

But if they wanted to kind of vibe with you, so to speak, as a therapist, do you have a practice site as well? Yeah, so the website is neurodevelopmentx.com.

And on Facebook, I'm launching a new program, or I guess it's a project for clinician burnout.

Frequency Medicine, Collaboration, and Closing Remarks

So it's called Healing Beyond Medicine. And we're just talking about secondary traumatic stress, compassion, fatigue. and burnout. And what- So your most recent thought is not necessarily church-going kids or families or addicts.

I sense that one of your biggest interests is that Chiron in astrology, Chiron is the wounded healer. So the people who are drawn to these fields of healing, oftentimes they have this counter-transference, this sort of energetic cloud.

And I met this great therapist. psychiatrist and she's like, it doesn't bother her. So she has a switch. She has a room. But I know what you mean, compassion, fatigue, empathy.

And there's times I can count on one hand where I've refused to take on patients because their prognosis was so poor and I knew it was just going to be.

Yeah. So, but I was saying to somebody, we're like junkies. We like to heal people because we feel erroneously perhaps that if we can heal others, you know, we'll have fixed whatever was missing in the childhood.

But I know that was triggered by a horrible event. One of your mentors ended his life suddenly in a moment of impulsivity, or what was that? Yeah. Yeah, so the very professor who introduced me to the concept of self-compassion committed suicide.

He was one of the first psychologists to be studying self-care, self-compassion. And so that really threw me. I do I agree like I think that my healing like my drive has to do with I wish that someone had maybe reached out to me when I was suffering is as a little one and with things that I didn't understand and so you know there is that like desire to You know, it's that shared healing experience and being able to just to be with somebody while they're struggling and to say like, I'm not going to leave you.

I'm not going to abandon you. You know, I want you to know that I'm here with you. And, you know, I think, you know, mirror neurons, perhaps we just, you know, we want to experience the, it's the human connection.

Sexual contacts. Yeah, that's the whole, the whole deal, right? When you use the word existential a lot and a lot of people don't even understand and know what that is.

But for the beginner just means assume life has no meaning. So it's up to you if you so choose to imbue it with meaning. And in the end, most people find that in a higher power or in each other, but deeply down, they have to fall in love with themselves, right?

Just keep breathing and find a way to be compassionate to yourself. That's really, we are the ones we're looking for in the end, right? Rescue ourselves.

It's so interesting. Yeah, like, you know, coming from, you know, my grandparents were in World War II. And so Victor Frankl, he was, you know, one of the first and Churchill, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, and probably he fit like, you know, we always have a choice. So you can look at the stars or you can look at the mud, you know, so it's, it's a lot of old ideas that struck me and I just kind of just love to, I love to play with ideas.

And then I like to use that to, you know, find ways of healing either myself or someone else or animals, you know, it's just whatever. So amazing. Yeah.

You talk to animals like horse whisper and all that cool stuff. Amazing. Yeah. Wow. I'm so grateful. Thank you so much for the opportunity. And I really would love to continue talking with you and learning more about the insights that you've gathered, because you're all around.

You're going to the lectures and the conferences. No, that's why I'm doing this, because there's a lot I don't know, but I get to meet people and they explain it.

And then we collectively get a little wiser. That's what it's all about. Great. Thanks, Christine. All right. Thanks so much. Neuro something X. What was it?

NeurodevelopmentX.com. I love it. Or come over to the Healing Beyond Medicine Facebook page so that we can talk about practitioner self-care and burnout prevention, secondary traumatic stress.

What an important topic that is. Yeah. Let's keep doing good work. You know, got to fill the tank. That's right. You got to put your mask on before you're helping someone else, right?

Okay. Thanks. Appreciate you. You bet. Thanks. Thank you for tuning into Dr. Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health.

Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your wellbeing. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website, www. DrTalks.com.

Stay connected. Stay healthy and join us next time on Doctor Talks, real talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.

Christine Koehler, PhD

Five Needles, One Reset: Transforming Mental Health and Family Dynamics