For. Everybody, I am your host, Doctor Greg Eckel of the Bioenergetics Summit. And, my guest today is Doctor Beverly Rubin. And we are talking wireless technology risks and solutions.

I want to give you a little of her background, because she is a very esteemed lecturer and academic and researcher. She earned her PhD in biophysics at UC Berkeley.

She has published over 90 scientific papers and two books. In 1997, Doctor Rubik founded and serves as president of the Institute for Frontier Science, a 501 3C3 nonprofit lab in Emeryville, California.

She's a leading scientist internationally known for her research that goes beyond the mainstream and challenges the dominant biomedical paradigm, which I so appreciate and love.

Doctor Rubik, thank you. She serves on the editorial boards and several integrative health journals, including Journal of Integrative and Complementary Medicine.

Her research includes. Interests include consciousness and the Full Human Potential in Health and healing, the bio field, human energy field, energetic medicine, structured water, and adverse effects of wireless communication.

Doctor Rubik, welcome aboard. Thank you, doctor Gregg, it's my pleasure to be here again with you. I love having these discussions and what an appropriate speaker for our bioenergetics summit.

And, you know, we really wanted to dive in on wireless technology and really risks and solutions and what to do about it. We are bathed in this and we don't even realize it.

Absolutely. It's like having our whole bodies in a low level microwave oven. And, you know, that's not a life positive thing. It is not. So, you know, let's let's lead in on that.

You know, I think a lot of folks watching this summit are tuned in the microwave or being bathed in this radiation. But for those that may be new to the topic, maybe let's talk, but let's talk to them first.

Well, we've had several generations of wireless already for the last 15 years, or maybe 20 years for at least the last 12. You know, cell phones have really become the communication device worldwide.

I hear there are 7 billion mobile phones out there and there are about 8 billion people. So sadly, I think then we see children using these phones, which is really not appropriate.

It's not a toy. And I recently found some studies showing that children who have been using cell phones for some time show abnormal brain on MRI medical imaging.

Their brains have smaller cerebral cortex, which is of course the center of our intelligence and being human. And this is really pretty shocking. It looks like the brain of a drug addict.

Wow. You know, it is. I feel fortunate that my kids are a little bit older. So they were not like native users of it. But you see, you know, 0 to 3 years old using the iPad or having a phone and playing a game and not really understanding the ramifications or repercussions of it.

Right. I think a lot of parents, society as a whole says, well, there's so much value, of it. To a point, like you're saying, well, you're now seeing research where the brains are actually shrinking to the size of a drug addict, or the same effects right?

In, in children. What else are you seeing with it? Because this is not coming from the mainstream as far as. Oh, well, you know, wireless technology is ubiquitous and it must be safe.

Right. Because it's it's out there. Yeah. So is tobacco a long time ago. Even doctors said it was good for your health. I remember when I was a little girl.

But now we know it's one of the worst things you can do. But I've been doing studies on the effects of wireless communication, radiation on the blood, looking at blood under a dark field microscope, a little finger prick of blood drop that placed on a slide so it's fresh blood.

And looking at the influence of short term exposures of the person before and after, I check that blood. And lo and behold, I see adverse changes. I see early stages of clotting well before clotting should ever occur.

So blood shouldn't clot for the first, say, ten minutes. But if it's going to clot within the first minutes, that puts you at risk for cardiovascular events.

And I also have a lot of clients who have problems with heart palpitations or maladies, such as atrial fibrillation and other cardiac arrhythmias, heart arrhythmias.

And this is a result of this wireless radiation with not just this baseline frequency, but all of its pulsations and modulations, yanking our hearts around, yanking our hearts and our brains, trying to emit to the same frequency as these pulsations, which, of course, it cannot do.

And these are not natural frequencies. So it's driving our heart and brain into abnormal rhythms. And we have many consequences of wireless from, I would say, effects in the DNA that show mutations all the way up to behavior and performance, memory problems, concentration problems, and, immune system problems.

So at the level of cells, tissues, organs all the way to to behavior and performance, that's how wireless takes a toll on our health. And people go to conventional physician to typically medicate.

They don't look for the source of a lot of these problems. So they end up on several drugs and they're not feeling good either. And then there are other medications that are because they don't feel good.

So they're on that that track, which is very unhealthy. Underlying. Can you unpack for us between microwaves and 4G, 5G, different, different effects of the different frequencies that are coming into the body?

What do you what are you seeing around that? Well, we still have some third generation or 3G and then 4G is still the mainstream Wi-Fi and 4G, LTE cell phones.

And we're moving into 5G, the fifth generation of wireless, which does not dismiss 4G. We're going to get rid of 3G and 2G, but 4G already has 6 or 7 frequencies.

So we're going to add a whole lot more bandwidths with modulations and pulsations. Generally in the extremely low frequency range around the brain wave and heart wave, types of modulate.

And so it isn't so much the microwaves themselves or the millimeter waves of 5G. It's the digital nature of these waves. The fact that they're pulsed on and off at a horrendous rate like microseconds.

It's like me standing at a light switch and flipping it on and off, on and off. And you're in a dark room and you say, stops, stop. I can't take it anymore.

Either turn the light on or turn the light off. We are analog beings. We operate in continuous energy mode, and when we get something that's jarring us energetically because it's pulsed on and off at a high rate and a regular random rate, our body simply can't take it.

It's a stressor and it affects us at all levels. So with 5G, it's really about the communication for the Internet of things, and it's going to step up and really terraform the entire planet with these frequencies and modulations from antennas outside our homes and schools and businesses.

And they say millions of antennas and some hundred thousand low Earth orbit emitting satellites traveling around the Earth and hitting us with waves everywhere.

So it's really a total transformation of the electromagnetic environment of our Earth, and we don't even know how the biosphere is going to react, let alone humanity.

Do we have any standards of safety with these frequencies? No. We have only what are called guidelines. And the guidelines are different in various nations.

It turns out the US and Canada allow the highest exposures in the world and countries such as Russia, China, much of Western Europe has lower guidelines.

That is, lower exposure limits, but there is no agreed upon safety limit. And there's disagreements about something called non thermal effects. In other words, the standards or just say the guidelines in the United States are based on only tissue heating.

If you go above a certain limit, you cook your tissue like sticking your head in a microwave oven. We know food heats up because water absorbs microwaves.

And that's how microwave ovens work. So they set a limit that they don't want your tissue to heat up. But there's a lot going on in the so-called sub thermal range where there's no tissue heating.

But there are a lot of jarring effects on your physiology, especially your heart and your brain, which operate on electricity in particular. And so that's what we're left against.

Is it mainly around the frequency of the 4G, 5G? Is it similar then to the wave frequency of our heart in our brain? Is that what is that where that's coming together or it's just a new frequency that's irritating into our own system?

Well, actually, microwaves and millimeter waves are much higher frequencies than the extremely low frequency waves of heart and brain. They're in what's called gigahertz for brains operating maybe up to, say, 40Hz and gigahertz, you know, is billions of hertz.

So where's the relationship of, well, it has to do with how the microwaves and millimeter waves are turned on and off their pulse and the pulse frequency, similar to our brain and heart.

And this is what's jarring, because it's not post in any regular way. It's pulsed in a random way. That's how these, technology devices work. They're sending signals to you, then they're sending signals to another customer, and 5G is bouncing around from customer to customer.

It's, a very complex wave pattern dynamically. So you're getting little bursts and then silence and little bursts, and that is like driving you crazy, like me standing at a light switch and turning it on randomly on and off.

And then bursts where it's on or off. So that's why it's especially jarring to the heart and brain that operate in these extremely low frequencies, say, below 40Hz.

Got it. Yeah. So that would be more in the brain wave frequencies for sure. You did speak into your your research 2014 showing human exposure to wireless communication radiation on the blood.

You talked about the blood clotting more quickly. You measure that on the biofilm. Well I take a look at the biofilm, generally through a device called bio well.

Bio well is a Russian digital type currently in apparatus. So we put fingertip by fingertip in this camera and there's slightly electrified. And then there's a circle of light.

And do slide around each finger when a person is in a relaxed, unstressed state, that circle of light is well rounded and a perfect circle if they're in good health.

And then I give a short term exposure, say, to a 5G cell phone, it could only be five minutes. Maybe they hold the phone in their hand, or they make a short phone call holding it near the head, but not on ear.

And then I look again at the biofilm, measuring all ten fingers. So what do I find? I find a very disheveled energy field, no longer perfect circles of light coming from those fingertips, but a stressed pattern.

It looks like, sparking is it looks irregular. Sometimes there are gaps and breaks. So the bioshield is no longer composed of a smooth, unimpeded flow of G, which it should be if we're in great health and relaxed on stress.

Now, the bio field is jarred, it's irregular, and in those who are electro sensitive, it's especially irregular with a lot of gaps and things, and they feel symptoms right away.

People say, oh, I feel pain. I can't think straight, get that thing out of my environment. And those are that electro hypersensitive. And sadly, as more of us get more exposed, these effects of wireless are cumulative and we too may end up electro hypersensitive.

That's how it works. Yeah, sadly, you know, it's both a blessing and a curse, right? I mean, it's amazing. We can send the packets of information and those waveforms that we can't really see with our eyes, and they arrive around the globe.

And at the same time, when we think of our bioenergetics and our bioshield, our battery of our body with the all of the different bio fields of our organs and our brain and, you know, the whole entity ourselves, and not to have the understanding or foresight to study that, to investigate it, maybe even just be curious with about it. Right.

I think as time goes on, there's more and more mounting evidence, like you, you know, you showed in 2014. I'm curious if with the 5G, what, because I see a lot of folks sounding the alarms of this next generation of information packets and frequencies.

What, what are you seeing with your research with the 5G versus the 4G or the pre? 5G is clearly worse. You know, we can measure the emissions just from the mobile phones.

And the mobile phones are getting bigger and more powerful. Really. If I go back and measure anybody who was a flip phone, those old clamshell type, those phones are emitting maybe 25% of what today's 4G and now the 5G phones are even bigger emitters.

And and people who were in my study back in 2014 who reacted to the 4G phone in about 45 minutes. Now they're reacting in just 15 minutes in terms of blood changes, biofilm changes, very short term exposures to 5G phones are causing more severe responses from the body.

So the body clearly doesn't like this stuff. It doesn't adapt. Yeah. We thought maybe there's some level of adaptation. And we see people who are elderly, 50 years older now, who have more adverse health effects from, the 4G and 5G radiation.

You know, we see I'm glad you brought that up on the on the adaptation because you sometimes see folks talk about, well, it's a form of stress. And so that stress is making, you know, while it has a a short term impact in the negative, then that our bodies rebound and create more, more coherence or, or a higher state of well-being.

But this signal never gets turned off. Not really. No, it's really problematic. I mean, my 2014 study, I studied people who are on the diet of our ancestors, which is, you know, pastured, needs organic vegetables, raw milk and cheese.

No, hydrogenated oils or even liquid oils other than, than olive oil. It was a very healthy diet, as I can see. And the blood at baseline before exposure looked fabulous.

But after 45 minutes of exposure, the adverse changes began with 4G phones. And today I see changes occurring at 15 minutes or so. And we can measure the phones.

I have meters to measure at least up to eight gigahertz. 5G goes up to 90GHz, and we don't have meters yet. For the people that will measure anything over eight gigahertz, there's only this expensive $100,000 military grade equipment for measuring radar, because when we talk about 5G, it's really in the radar wave range.

And the military is giving up certain bands of their radar in order that we have 5G. I think it's really not a good idea, especially as we don't have studies on 5G devices.

We don't have a clue how that's going to affect humans. We have studies in the laboratory on single frequencies, some modulations. But when you add all these emitters of the Internet of Things, everything you own is going to be talking to the internet.

And so emitting and sending these waves everywhere in your environment, we don't have a clue how that's going to affect human health, let alone the biosphere.

It's really we should be prudently avoiding these things until we have more definitive studies by independent scientists, not just the industry, because we have seen bias coming from the industry over the years, and we can't expect any anything more.

That's how they are. Yeah. It's interesting, you know, between this and toxic chemicals, we kind of have the burden of proof opposite where it should have been.

Prove it before you release it to the environment. Now it's like, oh, we'll prove it after we've released it around the globe. It's it's a very hard, you know, it can take 20, 30, 40 years from some for some of the data.

And at that point there's just even a higher level of radiation that has been produced. So it has it's it's completely backwards as far as a health with regards to health of our environment and for our bodies.

I'm in total agreement there. Well, and another thing is we've selected some frequencies that have got to be the worst possible frequencies for like 2.45GHz, which is why, fine, it's the same frequency as a microwave oven that's not smart.

And then 5G local area networks are going to use 60GHz a lot. Why and why 2.45GHz? Because these are the free bands. The industry doesn't have to pay any money for the real estate of these particular bands.

And they like that 60GHz is absorbed by oxygen. And again, we bring those. What are the consequences on hemoglobin binding oxygen and oxygen traveling through the body when you're using 60GHz?

Something that changes the structure of oxygen. I don't even know. I, I made a literature search on this. I couldn't find any testing of how that's going to impact our breath, our respiration, or the transport of oxygen in our bodies.

So I'm very concerned. That is that is super concerning in in light of, you know, my clinic is set up on oxygen therapies, hyperbaric and ozone and, you know, ozone saunas and creating, hyper oxygen rich environment, which we do know is healing.

And so to have technologies that are affecting oxygen structure and utilization is very, very alarming. Now that said, well, okay, we're we're swimming in this.

What can we do? You know, what can we do to help ourselves, our families? How do we protect ourselves? How do we, you know, reverse some of the damage that could be occurring from these things?

I know, you know, concrete examples here. I do, and I want to say a lot of people are still being activists in this, but sadly, we have laws on the books kind of mandating the rollout of 5G in California.

I know a lot of local cities change their telecom ordinances and said, we don't want 5G here. But California State then made a law saying we can't talk about health with respect to 5G.

And then there are really national laws that say, as long as you're below the guidelines, everything is fine. You can't talk about health, but the guidelines are kind of set by the industry telling the government what it wanted.

And so they're really not safety standards. So we still need some activism. I would say to try to prevent the full infrastructure of 5G from rolling out.

And now is the time. Some of it was rolled out during the lockdowns of the pandemic. I know they were putting up antennas near schools that were unoccupied then, sadly, and people didn't even know what was going on.

They weren't outside looking. But now what can we do? Besides activism? We need prudent avoidance. We need to reduce our wireless exposure. That doesn't mean giving up these devices, but it means, operating them sensibly, turning off our cell phone, turning off wireless from a computer when not in use, making sure you're also turning off the Bluetooth and anything else that is communicating wirelessly that might be on your your devices.

Also, Dect phones, these, landlines that are wireless and sit in a little base on your desk. That's the worst thing even then mobile phones I say get rid of them and get old fashioned corded phones.

People say, well, I like the mobility of this desk phone. I can run around. I say, I got a 25ft cord on my desk phone and I can easily travel around my room.

There's no problem. So get creative. You can find these things maybe these days at estate sales because I don't think they're in the market anymore. But that's what you want.

And if there's a demand, somebody will start making them again. So another thing we can do is earthing. And this is relying on Mother Earth, getting our feet bare, gardening, walking barefoot on especially wet sand or soil with a little moisture in it.

Grass. This is really helpful to our energy fields so that we can operate and function normally. I had some clients who had palpitations in the heart and I tell them go out and practice earthing or grounding on Mother Earth, and they did this and they said their palpitations definitely went down.

So they're doing it daily and could be walking on the beach, 20 to 30 minutes, just about the time required to do earthing to really release the negativity of these electromagnetic fields.

So nature nurtures and technology can be quite disruptive. It certainly can. And so I'm guessing with that recommendation on the earthing, have you done the, the, measurements of the bio field for folks with before and after, earthing personally, I haven't done that work, but others have, and there are definitely, papers on this, showing positive results.

Gates and Chevalier, Doctor Sinatra. And there are others who have published several things. I think there's also a book or two on nursing. And if you can't get out to Mother Earth to do this, there are earthing devices.

For example, you can strap, an electrode around your ankle and have it go out the window and down into the ground or wire connected Durango. You just have to make sure when you stand up, you don't walk away and you might injure yourself, but you can get earthing sheets that, again, have the silver threads in them and earth to earth.

And you, while you're sleeping is also a good idea. And there are shoes that have conductive parts, especially near some of the key points in the foot, like kidney one on the part of the foot.

And so you're walking with conductive shoes instead of rubber soles that are acting like insulators. So if you can't walk barefoot, you can get these conducting earthing shoes.

And they're out there. There's, several outlets selling them and they're all good ideas. Yeah, that is near and dear to my heart as a natural path physician.

So, you know, definitely getting out into nature and putting our, our bodies on the planet. It is our home. And, you know, for some reason, we've kind of retreated up into the gray matter of our brains thinking we're not part of the earth.

And lo and behold, you know, Mother Nature is a big cure for us. So that and that's a great suggestion for folks to do that, you know, get unplugged, get out there.

You know, we have this internet of things coming, and we are going to be we're swimming even more in this radiation. And so that that component especially, you know, as you mentioned, for for younger children, but I think there is maybe we can start a movement with the bio energetic summit here, you know, really us being conscious with the technology, it's almost as if we're in the adolescent phase of this, enamored by all of the gadgets and the and the, you know, the lights, but, you know, maybe the pendulum.

We can start the pendulum swinging back where I have been. I have some teenagers and, you know, they'll get on me like, hey, pops, get off your phone.

It's like, you know, so quickly I just unconsciously go, I'm just checking my email or whatever, where now it's like, no, I'm. I'm gonna go in there, you know, maybe three times a day of habit on airplane mode and, and then consciously check in, like, I know a while back I took all notifications off, like, I don't. I'm going to dictate when I go to the device, not the device dictating to me.

And I think it's becoming if we can have that awareness or that consciousness around the use. So it's not like we're not saying we want people to be Luddites, right.

We're not going back like, you know, the tech is out of the bag, so to speak. And and some of it is really just amazing. At the same time, the pendulum is going on to the point of like reckless use and unconsciousness around it.

Do you have any suggestions around that? Well, I mean, I make rules for myself. I do not use my cell phone ever to to look for email, but someone wants to get Ahold of me in a hurry.

They know they better text me and I'll look at those, but I then turn it off right away. I will not use my phone for email because then it becomes too much of a habit.

So I drew the line and said, I'll use this for calls for, you know, text and if I really need to look something up on the internet quickly, but I'm not going to make it.

And I have some cool apps, like I want to know about the weather, you know, or fires in California, the wind factor when I'm going to walk in the beach, things like that.

But in general, I rely on my computer, which is wired. I use the old DSL Ethernet. Why? It's faster. How did we ever get roped into wireless that is regular?

Not so fast and hackable. People should be very concerned if they're looking at their bank accounts on their cell phone, wondering who might interrupt that and hack into it.

How do our credit cards get hacked, I often wonder, I mean, wireless is the most vulnerable thing to be hacked if you want to be safe physically and health wise and unhackable, you get wires.

We want wires should be our mantra and we want fiber optics to the premises that was promised to us with this whole 5G rollout. And it seems as though they're going to stop with the wires, with the fiber optics at the telephone poles and then wireless to the house.

And that's not fair. Yeah, we all were told we were going to get wires all the way in. So we should demand those fiber optics, and then we can really have very speedy internet on our computers.

And there's ways to plug your cell phone and even to your computer using wires so you don't have to always use it in wireless mode. Yeah. So there are various adapters that we should be aware of.

So why are so whenever possible. And one thing I should mention, a lot of people ask me about those protective devices on the market. You know there are shields for your phone, but of course it makes it like a brick.

It's not going to ring or be useful. You may as well just put it on airplane mode and all the other things turn off. But what about the stickers for the backside of your phone?

What about these devices you put in your room that they say, oh, it totally saves you from wireless? Well, buyer beware because I haven't seen a lot of science going into those in terms of independent, peer reviewed papers, really studying humans to show that they're safe.

So people put a sticker of some sort, like a hologram on the backside of their phone, and then they talk like this with the cell phone, thinking the sticker is totally protecting me.

And guess what? I've studied some of these things, and some of them don't protect you at all. Others are partial protection, but none of them so far have shown total protection.

So you can't do this thinking you're totally safe because you're using a little gizmo on your cellphone. So true. We're going to put that on a bumper sticker for us, enclosing anything that you'd like to share here at the end of our interview.

Well, yes. One of the things is my great dream. Is that why don't we terraform the Earth to operate new electromagnetic modes? I think we need some islands.

Or should we say clear zones that are untempered with. So I'd like to see. And I'd like to create a ranch that is clear zone, no wireless. And we create technology there.

That's all wired, including maybe some wireless infrared communications, which are totally safe and even anti-inflammatory. Infrared is safe. Right. So I'd like to see a clear zone ranch.

And this is something I'd like to build and clone the idea I have other people learn how to do it, and so we make a lot of safety zones for people who are electro sensitive.

We can teach people about this problem and how to overcome it and how to stay safe. So, I'm looking for partners, philanthropy as well as investors in such a project because it's a big thing.

It would be about a thousand acres minimum. And that would take you pretty far from any local antenna that, they may put up on the edge of the property.

But I think it's a great idea, and I'd like to see a bunch of these things worldwide because we need to preserve, have preserves just like we have nature preserves today for animals, etc., and for wildlife, plants, etc.

we need white zones to show how the earth used to be before we terraformed the entire mass of it. I love it, yeah, thank you for that. I love that vision. And, may it be so.

That's awesome. I know there are a lot of designers, architects and builders that I've come across in this space, that are really tuned in to creating new, habitable houses, etc., that are wired appropriately, which are creating those zones within the house.

But I love that vision of a larger community. And, and having that as, you know, propagating, around the planet like that. And then one more thing. We're also developing a 5G meter for the people.

In other words, I said, there's nothing over eight gigahertz, you know, and people ask me, is 5G turned on here? I said, well, above eight gigahertz. I don't know, and 4G goes up to eight gigahertz.

So we're in the dark and, you know, we're making a meter and we hope to have it out. So probably next year, people's meter that would be affordable, because who can afford $100,000 military radar equipment out of the question.

And it's more than a PhD to run such a device. So, but even a forging meter is helpful. Lots of people are unaware of what's wireless in their environment.

If they could get one and borrow it, and among their families or neighbors, they could at least measure where they spend a lot of time in their homes and and the baby monitors that are wireless.

What's that doing? To a child in the room, we have to be very conscious about all these wireless devices, and there's going to be more and more of them with the internet of things, and we want to keep our distance where we spend most of our time, but we're going to have health problems.

Do you have a specific one? Not looking for an endorsement, but certain ones, because I know there are a lot of those meters on the market, but they're not all created equal.

Just curious if you have one that you recommend or a couple of them, I recommend the Cornett. There are several models. The cornett is a tri field meter, which means it measures radio frequency, the microwaves and millimeter waves.

It measures, electric fields as well as magnetic fields. So you can flip the switches and you can know all three in your environment. But the main problem today is wireless because it's right there on our desks with devices what we use.

Yeah. And and we should be very conscious too. I mean, for example, I use a battery operated alarm clock. Yeah, I know people who have their tablets and mobile phones use for the alarm right next to them in the bed.

This is not sensible, right? So we need to have extremely low level fields where we spend most of our time sleeping at our desks, or these are spots in the home where we sit a lot, and in schools, likewise, using the dosimeter from Germany, there was, a study by colleagues of mine who showed that children were getting over the guideline limit in the United States because they have industrial strength watch in the school rooms to service all of the students.

And sometimes schools have an antenna on the roof. Now they're being paid by the telecom industry to have an antenna on the premises, which is, I guess, exacerbating the exposure of children.

And children may also have a mobile phone. So all of this adds up. The fields are cumulative and the children are getting far too much exposure. And I'm very concerned because developing brains and organs throughout the child's body are going to be impaired.

We know from many biological studies that organisms during development are the most sensitive to radiation, so the next generation will be the most vulnerable.

All right. I think I'm going to end it there because that that's a really potent, a potent statement. Doctor Rubik, thank you so much for coming on to the bioenergetics summit.

It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Doctor Greg. I enjoyed it.

Beverly Rubik, PhD

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