Hello and welcome. I am so glad you're here with me today. And I know that in the next hour, we're going to have a fabulous time exploring the dimensions of consciousness.

My name is Dawson Church, and I love highlighting the information that we bring here because there are so many things you can do that will inspire you, but also motivate you to make shifts in your life.

And so this will be a time of both inspiration, education and also that practical information that you can apply in your own life to uplevel your awareness, your consciousness, and your level of health and happiness.

My guest today is Doctor Ervin Lazlo. He is the holder of the highest degree from the Sorbonne University in France. He's also been honored with many awards, including the Goya Award, the Japan Peace Prize, and nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize.

He is a former professor of philosophy, systems theory and future studies in the US. Europe and the Far East is also the founder of the think tank The Club of Budapest.

For more on his work, go there. Club of budapest.com and find out more about the work of Ervin Laszlo. And we're going to have one of those deep dives today into the whole field of consciousness, and how you can shift Ervin.

It is such a joy and delight to welcome you here. Those and it's always, always a pleasure to talk with you. I'm glad to be with you again. And when I was reading your personal story, I was so aware that very early in life you became aware of this dimension beyond the the obvious ones that you plan to go into in your early career.

Just share with us about how that trip took place. Well, it came rather suddenly in this has been in preparation for a long time. I have been exposed both to music and philosophy in my early childhood, because my mother was a piano professor and my uncle was a philosopher, and in the morning I used to practice piano under the tutelage of my mother.

I'm talking about the age of five, and on and on the afternoon, I would walk in the park with my uncle, who would share with me his thoughts. I didn't understand all the time.

Most of it, but some it that are questions to answer about who we are and why we are here, you see, and those things to take hold of my mind actually in practice for a while, because I was discovered to have a talent for music, I had my former debut and as we passed through harmonic of the age of nine and then and had an international career, this prizes from competition in Geneva, Switzerland, and then a big W in New York City, which has resulted in articles on lifetime, Life and Newsweek and newsreels and all that.

I was 15 at the time, so the concerns about who we are and what we are doing here, we're pushed into the background. But as I went along, the time, I was about 19, 20 years old, this question surfaced again.

And I ask myself, what am I doing? Why am I here? And is there something more than what I'm doing now to do with my life? Then that turned back to those questions that I had that had been exposed to the child.

All right then, this Columbia University has the lectures of, of of the important professors for, for my purpose, the New School for Social Research and other organizations and try to start this reading systematically from the beginning, from philosophy and on to to the current, foundations of science.

So, you know, and then these ideas surfaced and these preoccupations became occupations. And they got to the point that I said, I can't do both. I can't be a full time pianist and pursue my thoughts, my and my quest for meaning and for understanding, through science at the same time.

Now, the Jews, I received an invitation from Yale University, which initially I did not accept because I said I can't give up my concept career. But then at one point, an incident took place and I can recall later on to like which made me think that I do have to think about this seriously.

I did accept the invitation and I moved to New Haven and then my academic career started, which is my second reincarnation as it's for the third, but is now versus archive, which is an activist space phase.

The second row was a purely academic, primarily academic space philosophy, systems, philosophy, ethics, and just the understanding of of how you can go into the future of future studies.

Now, I'd like to just pause for a moment and think about all the young people, Irving, who go through the journey you went through of asking those big questions of life.

And the teenage years usually are where people are asking those questions, and they often do start where you started with reading philosophy and trying to, get some insight from the great philosophers of the past.

And yet many people emerge from that quest quite unsatisfied and then really needing to move to different, different spaces and awareness. And you of course, then follow, follow that path.

I was just reading some of the research into teenage questioning and how it can lead, if unfulfilled, to depression, and there's this interesting series of studies of children between the ages of ten and 20, and how that if they don't find ways of getting those questions answered, if they aren't able to, explore that way, if they're unsupported in those explorations and maybe even pathologized by by therapists who think, well, why are you so unhappy when you ask all these questions about life?

It actually leads to depression and this kind of continuum of either they're supported and they start to explore, or if that desire is frustrated, they actually get depressed.

I'm so glad that, what you did, you did, and that that option is available to people to really start to move into exploring consciousness. And now there are so many resources, so many teachers, so many insights that people can get to and then start to move into those areas.

So I just picturing that 15 year old, 19 year old urban, and I'm so glad you took the direction you did. Well, I mean, my my life story is not one that can be easily duplicated.

It's a very particular one. I'm not recommending anyone to try. It just so happened as a child, nobody asked me if I want to be a concert pianist. It's. Let's taken for granted that I would be.

And so I was confirmed by and I have public appearances and then particularly by the so I New York Debbie and Tony hullabaloo that followed after that.

So it's been up and I moved from there to, to to, to my quest for meeting and understanding. It really meant to leave behind a career which to have taken up all my time.

So it was a very big decision. It's not something that you can easily take or recommend to people that you should try. Yes, there are many, careers in consciousness, but today I think there's so much from our favorite people of our position.

Today we have the internet. We can ask questions and we can be can be guided to programs such as this show, for example, among others. So that's maybe where we can seek answers.

I myself am planning right now. I kind of had a talk show that was starting before our weekly show, where people can call in and ask questions. So I've been having webinars and podcasts and that's where people can look at publications.

We've got lots of books.com, for example. You see all my books, published, 106 books and books and, and altogether in 24 languages. So people can look up what I have in my, in particular, the last few books.

I think I tried to summarize what conclusions I've come to, what I think is important, and people can access that. And you can even carry on conversations about things.

As I said, I plan to have this talk show where people can call in and we can talk about it. And I'm organizing also what I call the new movement. The opposite movement.

Then you can look at the website movement.com and you will find that people can register. It doesn't cost anything to register or get their ideas of what they think would be a good development for humanity.

The better and wiser way to live on this planet and try to bring these people together and create projects to really help in practice, to shift up. You have the critical point.

So I think we are at the post at the, at the it's a very unique point in our history. And you're right, at least in my case, a very special background.

So I would say to young people, whatever you do, whoever you think you are, ask your questions, look up, look after that. Because when you get to the correct answers or the right answers, you will feel it. You will know it.

That is a signal, a feedback coming from the universe. I'm convinced of that. What a wonderful concept of a single coming from a university of seeking it is going to catalyze.

It's seeking you that rich group of ideas, people, authors, and the availability of all these things like there is through the program is really remarkable.

And so people begin this quest and then what is so, prevalent, I've noticed, is people getting distracted. They may do a few things, explore a little bit, but there's so much out there to distract you.

The things happening in your body that distract you, things happening in your relationship, your career, the distract you, things happening in the world that's distracting you.

What I've noticed working with authors and leaders over the years is that people like you and me, and all those that I interview and share with were very inter motivated and we aren't unplugged from the world.

We know what's going on. We know all of the events happening that in the world, but we are at least equally and often much more focused on what's going on in consciousness.

Houston Smith used to call this the news of the universe. We're focused on the news of the universe rather than getting our inputs being totally plugged in to to the outside world.

And I, I just want to say to those listening now that this is a big choice you have to make and can make, whether you will let all the distractions from your body, your mind, your money, your career, your family, all of those things pull you drag your awareness into them exclusively.

It's not a problem to have part of your awareness in there. You need to be able to drive your car and take the train and pay your bills and and provide for your family.

But if all you're doing is that and that occupies the entire screen, the entire field of your awareness, and you aren't making time for the kind of inquiry that Irvin is recommending over here, then you're going to live an outer, determined life and life determined by all these things outside of yourself, not a life that flows from the that infinite field of consciousness about which is written.

So what do you want to challenge you as you're listening here, as you're watching to look at your life, take a really hard look at your life and then see how distracted you are.

All you tell you, distracted. Are you making some time and space to ask the big questions that Irvin is recommending? We ask, and are you making time for those larger fields of consciousness about what she writes and about which we we live and eloquently about these?

And so, Irvin, let's go ahead and move between the micro, the local, the human, our local lives and those macro levels of universal fields that you talk about.

How did you begin to first sense the presence of that, the field of information, field of consciousness, those non-local fields? I think what I've been doing about playing the piano was not just deciding myself what to do and how to play, how to interpret music.

I think that I have a sense of feeling. I would now say more about the guidance of how to play, how to interpret a piece of music, how to make it make sense and this sense continued.

And I'm on to something that I think makes sense, is meaningful and could be considered urgent and important. Then things that facilitate this, things fall into place.

I very often think I'm not writing what I'm. What I'm exercising is not myself. It's not automatic writing in this entirely by the words. The ideas start flowing and I have to gesture to keep up very quickly.

I, good pianist, tends to write them up as fast as on the keyboard as as I can, and the ideas start flowing. And that experience of being right on the wavelengths, on the proper wavelengths that is continuing on in my life, very often on the opposite towards also that I'm doing something which I should not be, and I'm asking the wrong questions and I'm seeking in the wrong places.

Now everything is frustrating. Very often messages like that, you know, it seems silly to say, but it's happens to me, you. I send it off on, on by email and the email doesn't go through.

It just stops, has blocked. I can't rely on this, but it's my experience. It's very often the after version of something called blocked. I look back up, back up and they said, my goodness, that's not really right.

I have not, you know. So I think there is in us something which helps us orient ourselves or consciousness and action. I talk about that also in terms of new sciences or consciousness.

It's not our individual brain produce consciousness there. Our consciousness is a universe of cosmic phenomena in which we participate as in a hologram.

We are part of that. We carry out some of it, right. It's our consciousness, deep down, is a cosmic consciousness. I'm not at all I'm saying that Einstein said that only certain categories.

Physicists said that there's no sense in talking about consciousness in the plural. He says there's only one consciousness, the whole book speaking about one consciousness.

And this is cropping up in new physics and quantum physics. It's just cropping up all over the sciences. And of course, it's the old, old spiritual healers.

Tenet, our consciousness is one and this is our consciousness is a part of that cosmic consciousness. So you can't talk about evidence for that. We can't ever talk to mention it.

I just want to say that when when you are doing things that you should be doing, the things tend to fall into place. It's not forcing it. It's not depriving yourself, following your instincts.

Your instincts are always correct. Your rationality can sometimes be mistaken. Get in the way. Intuitions are right. Understand such intuitions is more for intuition is more important than rationality.

And even in science, the initial idea comes is intuitive. Then you work it out and your life also your intuition, your intuitive ideas, coming to you spontaneously allow them to come and see what you do with it in your life.

So two questions and we'll take them separately. But what is the evidence for that? Because you've said a lot of scientific evidence in your books for it.

And then for somebody who does feel separated to somebody who is listening to us now and they feel disconnected, they feel like a separate consciousness.

They don't feel that sense of odd oneness with you. All that is, how do they start? Let's let's start with the evidence, and then we'll go on to how to connect with that.

That field, one of the most crucial, interesting and important experiments now has to do with the so-called split being experience experiment from the quantum sciences.

What you do is I'm not I'm trying to just put it together. These are technical terms. What you do is you take a single particle, split it, project one in any finite distance, and then you interact with the other one.

What happens is that you interact with this one. It is felt also by the other, by the other half, no matter how far of it is. And it's not the story you just yes, acting on it.

It's not the respondent response it gets from the other one is this exact same sensation or the same pickup of the information from the other as you have on this is you're cloning it.

You're cloning the particle over any finite distance. And this is true of the center of your body. The more bigger the system, the more heavy material the system is.

Of course, the more it is blocking this spontaneous transmission. The quantum particles have a free range to move over the universe. And the the alternatives the same thing.

So what's really applies here is not the idea of a cannon ball. They're shooting for information from one to another. Right. Applies is the whole program the holes in which you know any parts of hearing a hologram, the entire hologram is present is refracted.

You can illuminate the holographic plate or screen at any point, and you find the entire image. That's one post the hologram, right then right there. The hologram contains the whole in this part.

Now there are very serious scientific theories. Let's say the cosmos is a hologram. I would say our consciousness is also a hologram. It's not our brain issued consciousness, it's a consciousness you have to be to participate in, because our consciousness contains the consciousness of the cosmos.

Just have to reach in or it's not out for you in for it because it's in you. Irvin. Now that I have some sense of that holographic universe, of the participation of my consciousness in all consciousness, how do I start to access that experience?

Don't try to do it. Allow it to happen. It's an old, very old tenet coming from all eastern philosophers, from the old, from, the Confucianism or whatever it's from the Indian philosophers have given us, you know, but it's also appears in the, in the Old Testament.

You are the love of God. The love of this higher spirit is reflected in you to find it here, to allow it to come for us, to shine for us. You don't make this connection.

You allow me to let it happen. And this means taking it a little time. The only thing you have to do is to start. Take some time out of your busy, everyday occupations and preoccupations to ask yourself, what is this world?

What am I doing in it? Can I do something meaningful in it? And who I am? Who am I really? Now this seems like abstract questions, but when you look at the daily news, you look at some of the most surprising, some of the most horrendous that, but also some of the most, most hopeful ones are happening, you know, not living in ordinary times.

We are living in times for everything that we do. If you just perceive it, allow yourself to perceive what's what's happening, even as I sit, is tells us that these are very critical times.

Times of transformation. And then you can get this sense you can't just sleep through it. It's not something you just just ignore. You are in it. We are part of in this universe, whole hologram is a metaphor for the thought of your skin, but also the idea of a fractal.

You know, in a fractal system, all of this would be the are subsequent are subsidiary elements are present in every every structure. So these this is not a mechanistic universe separate from you.

You are part of it. I said, that's very clear, that separateness is an illusion. So whatever happens in the world where there is one war, whether it's a climate crisis as it is the refugee crisis, the economic downturn or crisis, that there's an ecological problem here in Italy.

A few days ago, an entire mountain collapse, and many people were called the mountains, which is not a solid rock because they have an ice cold that was afterwards on it for merely for, for millions of years.

So it is soft to the extent that it became much lighter and the mountain just imploded, killing dozens of young people who were hiking through a crime.

It these are news that have a deeper sense we are doing something to this planet, which it wasn't meant to be done. We're doing something arbitrarily and we are harming its equilibrium.

Ultimately, it reacts on us. But it's all true. Yes. Go back to ask yourself, can you do something and then do your best with the answers that you get, because you will be getting answers.

And as we've talked before, there's so many places you didn't get answers. I try to give answers also, particularly in my latest book, which is on the ten pages of the The Upshift The Path to Healing and Evolution on Planet Earth.

I mean, I have here, but you can kind of read that in practically one day, one week, or let's say, yeah, Jean Houston talks about that. She calls it junk time.

And do you believe we are in the middle of that kind of of an upshift globally? We are in the middle of a leap. And I think we are beginning to show evidence that we are moving on to the right end of this process, not the downturn during rugby after not the downshift, but the upshift.

I think more and more people are asking themselves these questions are beginning to be concerned. More and more realize that we are one and just. Love and kindness and cooperation are the answer.

These are fantastic things and the new unity coming for us sometimes is triggered by the there is such a traumatic event like that, like a war or a very serious climate catastrophe or extinctions, but they are happening.

And whatever that trigger is, is the trigger effect is that we are being challenged and beginning to answer the challenge. The answer being together, together, we can do it.

And I'll allow your deeper self to give you the answers and then join these others. That's a simple prescription. Yeah, that is a powerful prescription to ask the questions, join with others, see what you can do, and you have no idea what you can do in your little niche.

And then you start to look for things you can do. You start to realize that, that you can have an impact and then can human consciousness can shift and human level consciousness on the part of many people.

Can those affect that universal hologram? You know, you are familiar, perhaps to say no, and I'm sure you are about that, say many of your listeners have maybe also these what is known as the butterfly effect, or the metaphor for that is that if a butterfly, let's say in Northern California, where you are flaps its beings, it creates a tiny current of air, which in this, in this system is just known as a chaotic system.

They're very, very sensitive to changes, you know, and to breakdowns and to alterations that can occur and of air can augment, can amplify as it goes around the Earth and ends up by creating a hurricane and Outer Mongolia.

You know, this is a metaphor to say any local effect can actually have non-local consequences. Ultimately, the case is and the truth is, we are not all Kobe.

We are non-local entities. Yes, reached into the web of life, which is very much a part of this universe. And that means that whatever you do here and now, you scratch there and then nothing is purely local.

Whatever we do has cosmic, certain planetary cosmic consequences. Urban as part of this whole field of universal consciousness. As we tune into that, as we we move into relationship with that consciously, what are we responsibilities as as parts are that that universal whole?

We are one of the most evolved entities in this universe. Now, of course, we don't know all the rest of the universe in this corner of the universe. Certainly we are.

And by evolved, I don't necessarily mean the wisest or the best, but we have our capacity, the capacity to perceive, to recognize our perceptions, to alter our sense of what who we are, to act like we do or act differently.

We have all this freedom. Freedom to understand, freedom to also ignore, freedom to be correct and freedom to error. That is a unique freedom, unique capacity, unique feature of the human being over on this planet.

In this particular solar system. And that entails responsibility because this level of development is unique, at least on Earth. As I said, it's not necessarily the best development, but it's the most articulate consciousness that indicates US freedom.

Creative potentials, and we to conserve that is our responsibility. Let me end my sentence. My defense has I've been spending many decades thinking about this is cannot be by chance, as we developed this level of being, this higher level of consciousness, which is not our separate consciousness, but the participatory consciousness, surely we are here for a purpose.

This universe is not a chance universe. It does not come about by random interactions. Ask me, quote to you favorite famous martial beauty saying by a mathematical physicist, Sir Fred Hoyle, for you who is looking to the origins of life, says a problem in physics came to this conclusion.

He said the probability there is life that the DNA would have emerged in an organism through chance interactions, is similar to the probability that a hurricane blowing through a scrapyard would assemble a broken character.

Can you imagine that probability if a hurricane just burst or a scrapyard creating a functioning airplane? Okay, it's not excluded. I think probability is astronomically small or negative.

And this is the probability is life, which have come about through random interactions, if not same time interaction, that there is something in the universe that moves us forward, has created this level of coherence, which is there in the galaxies, in the stellar systems on planet or in the atom and molecule.

So already that they exist in interstellar space, something is moving us and then something is in us. It's not only out in the world, it's created us in. It is present as an attraction, as an attraction towards coherence, to our coordination, to our cooperation.

It's basic, but it's about it's basics to us is not fighting, killing, doing away these others, but there's competitors and just people going back to don't care about what is in as basic treaties.

But the degrees spiritual masters of heart love. And I'm seeing this from a scientific perspective without the attraction of the neutron for the proton, it would not be stable.

Atoms. These are stable at times that would be violent, cute and could not be macromolecules and cells and crystals. And there would not be life as we know it.

Because there we are. Because here we are, here. That means there is more than chance in the universe. We are here for a purpose. Its purpose is to create higher, higher levels of this kind of coherent oneness, which is every reduced the presence of every organism, every living entity, into a bigger, almost like a miracle.

But this miracle is stemming in nature, in the cosmos. It was there in the Big Bang. It's coming to life now as you move further and further away in space and time to create entities, recycle here and which can interact.

I'm sure there are many, many forms of life on the in the universe, many forms of consciousness because all they are parts of the same consciousness is all parts of the same universe.

We have partial creation on this. In this nickel equivalent, we are one of the most evolved ones who can understand this. So obviously that is part of some of this.

If you are part of a process which is encoded in the universe, it's our responsibility to go with that. Consider that as young people say, go is the force.

The force is this evolution toward oneness, toward light, toward love. That's the force field. Allow it to come, force. Then you will be working with the evolution of the universe and not against it.

You will be part of it. And that's the global process, and you deserve to be done. It's our responsibility to be part of it. Just do it now. One lens through which is to see this is what you talk about in your books, which is coherence.

We can become coherent with that coherent universe. And he mentioned the coherence that is there throughout the universe and is the coordination mechanism for this, all this coevolution to be happening.

Go ahead and share with us what that property of coherence is and why it's so important. Well, scientists have come to a very interesting physicist biophysicist, particularly interesting conclusion life is possible on the way from the dead state of thermodynamic equilibrium.

But nothing can happen because everything has already sort of happened. Everything is run down, low energy. Life is away from this is in a condition of what is known as five from or from equilibrium.

One is in a non dynamic non-equilibrium state. Why is that important? Because if we don't constantly make this distance from equilibrium work for us, then we gradually move towards equilibrium.

And equilibrium means the end of life. That means passive oneness, which is not the dynamic oneness that you're talking about. We just falling back into.

But in physics is known as entropy. The highest entropy. That's not the case. We live it far from equilibrium. And to live far from equilibrium maintain ourselves in this dynamic state.

Everything in our body and in our surroundings need to cooperate. If some parts do not cooperate, then they become indifferent to the whole, and then it become a disease in the whole.

And to become a like a lacuna in the world. And there that's not cooperating parts only look to their own short term interest, then they grow and evolve at the expense of the whole in which to participate.

What I'm describing is what is known in medicine as cancer. The cancer itself is devoid, is divorced from the rest of the universe. Information only divorce can be physically present.

No longer shifting knowledge has reached into the network of life in the organism. And to kill this fast host, if it continues to cooperate, that's the only way forward.

Then it's not the fitness to survive. So you think that Darwin came to this conclusion based on in life, that his followers didn't always follow him in that regard?

Who survives is the most cooperative, the most flexible, the most willing to work together. There's a lesson you need to learn from nature because it's in the universe.

The universe is a cooperative universe. We have these. Our mind is our consciousness created and non-cooperative and when you speak something all obviously and now we are trying to correct, now we are going to try to move forward in a way which can reach every part of this system that we call humanity cooperative, because every other part, you ask, what is coherence?

That is coherence. That every part works with every other part to maintain the whole of which the active part, even one obvious facet of being a human being is we have a body with a mind, we have emotions, and we do have these bodies.

And you mentioned earlier that our brains are not the creators of consciousness, that they're participants in consciousness. And let's focus a little bit on the whole idea of spiritual intelligence, and that we have brains that can move us to these states.

We, of course, have masters. We're able to get to these very elevated states, and we see a lot of, phenomena in their bodies, like coherent functioning.

We see heart brain coherence. We see brainwave coherence across the spectra in the EEG. So let's move this now to the physical and how this is reflected in our bodies having a body being in a body.

And again bring up not just our minds but our bodies into one. And coherence with these great movements and shifts in, universal consciousness, I would say that the first step is to recognize that we need to do away this dualism.

So all kinds. It's not as though that if you have a physical brain and then they have a nonphysical consciousness or that we have we have a group of cells working here and some kind of a mind working someplace else or with us.

We are not separate. And because we are not an ethereal being, we are a spiritual being in the old sense of the earth in which all things, hang together.

All things have meaning because the universe itself is not a material universe. The closest we can say, I mean, in my term, we can define the universe as being psychophysical, physical by psychological or psychic at the same time, from the very beginning.

But ever happened since the big bank is not just a simple material happening. Max Planck, Quantum Ziggy first physicist of recent decades, said that after 40 years of studying what amounts to the the most concrete of the sciences, the nature of the atom, he says one thing I can tell you, and this is almost verbatim of what he said in this lecture in Florence.

One thing I can tell you, there is no such thing as matter in the world. A man who holds who who pioneered the understanding of atomic structure. No such thing as necessary. What that is.

And go back to Nikola Tesla, the great maverick physicist who said, if you want to understand the nature of the world, ask about frequency. Frequency is not energy on the old classical sense.

It's not simply kinetic. Moving something back and forth. Frequency is a kind is a form of vibration. Vibration is a certain kind. Ultimately, the universe is a series of incorporating and except involving self embedding vibrations and very complex vibration.

Probably because this becomes a common phase space. It is a living being, but a planet is an analysis of migration. Now, as we know, to go back to more closer to your question, what you recognize is, yes, when we look at human experience and testify against what's happening in the brain, you can do that by looking at the spectrum of EEG with the actor and and as a photograph, patterns that are emitted in the brain by the brain.

Then they find correlations between experience and pattern and frequency to ordinary frequencies and or in the normal beta level. And this is the everyday experience.

There are higher levels of X of of excitation which go beyond that, but they're also deeper levels. And then you have I think this is known as what we call recognizer spiritual experience, including telepathy.

The experience for her soul free verse of reincarnation, sending and receiving information beyond the limits of space and time. Then or three operates at a lower level of frequency.

It goes down into theta and into twisted delta, Alpha delta and delta S is that normally when somebody is in delta then they are, then they are asleep because it's the deepest level of of human brain functioning.

Their awareness or the evidence is not there. Now some spiritual masters I think some healers are in Delta and they operate in death state because then they fear and not only see the work is the eyes, then they perceive it on a deeper level.

So we can say in general, yes, movies. Tesla's insight ask about frequency. When you do deeper frequencies, you go to answer you mean every. The more you have experiences of oneness, love is all happens at the deepest level, so there's nothing really mysterious about it.

Everyday consciousness has divorced itself from the root of the universe. We divorce ourselves from the universe if you need. We need to reconnect. I met several to three years ago.

A year and a half ago, I published a book called reconnecting to the to the cosmos Reconnecting to the sources for nature and the outcome, the experience of spiritual masters and other people who are remarkable, intuitive people.

And they all operate on this, the frequencies, and they all come up as a final insight. The answer to our problems is love and oneness and belonging not by chance is two universe is.

We are not separate physical beings. We are part. We are psychophysical beings in a psychophysical universe, part of it's oneness. Imagine you living like that for the rest of your life.

Just imagine if that was the foundation of your sense of identity. Imagine if that's who you believed you you are. Imagine if every single way in which you've approached every single question in your life was approached from that awareness, how different your life would be, and what Irvin and I are urging you to do here is really see your life through that lens.

Ask the big questions and know that that answer is love. It's the foundation of the way the universe operates on the macro level. It's the foundation of how we all operate on the micro level.

If we choose to do that and make that choice day after day after day, I know for me personally, I wake up in the morning and the very first thing I do is I just fill myself with that awareness of something larger than myself and come into coherence with that spirit of love.

I do it last thing at night as well, before I go to those deep delta waves and just living your life from that foundation complete transforms your outer reality as well as making you happy, joyful and full of love on the inside.

So please do apply what Irvin has been sharing with us for the past hour. Use it to create a life full of love, to align yourself with love, to come into coherence with love, as he was emphasizing earlier to you then are in coherence and you find people around you and you find beauty in that space and consciousness, and then you moving into it, an awareness, a relationship with that larger consciousness.

And again, there's only one earth. And what a joy to share this time with you. You've so inspired me. I know you've inspired everyone listening. I'm so grateful for you and your work.

And when I was, talking to you a few weeks ago, it was just for your 90th birthday, and I was joking that I hope to be there for your 100th. And I sincerely know you'll be doing this wonderful work till.

Till then, and perhaps beyond those moments, it's my pleasure to talk to you again. These are the kind of conversations that we can move us forward freely for others.

So thank you for this opportunity and let's carry forward together. Absolutely. Conversations well worth having. And thank you, everyone for joining us here.

And we look forward to this process, being part of the uplift together. Thanks again.

Ervin Laszlo

The Universe Is Love: Dawson Church And Ervin László In Dialogue