– Hi everyone. Welcome back to the long haul Covid and fatigue summit. I am your co host, Dr. Sharon stills and it's an honor and a privilege to be here with you on this very, very important topic that's on all of our minds that I know I'm seeing and dealing with constantly in my clinic and those of you watching who are suffering, we want to have support and options and hope for you.

And so when I was asked as co host to bring on some people that I would want to interview, well, my my dear friend and colleague, Dr. James Odell was at the top of the list.

And so just tell you a little bit about him because I've told you everything about him. We'd be here in three weeks and I still wouldn't be done telling you all his amazing nous. But he's the executive executive director of the bio regulatory medicine institute, whom you may know because that's who I host the podcast for. If you've seen my podcast and he's been practicing bio regulatory medicine in the United States for over two decades.

He graduated with a doctorate in natural empathy in 1980 from US International University, which no longer actually offers naturopathic studies. And then from there he completed a three year post doctoral program in traditional Chinese medicine at Shantou University Medical College with medical residents at their university teaching how hospital and their central hospital and she wan hospital.

He then completed several internships in European regulatory medicine at the Paracelsus clinic in loose mill Switzerland where him and I became buddies many, many, many, many years ago. And so he has been doing this for a long time.

He has a very busy medical practice in Louisville and he um is a prolific writer and he's the author of a 700 page groundbreaking new text entitled breast cancer the rest of the story, which was a reference work, 13 years in the making. And I always say he's superhuman because I'm like, oh, I want you to be on the long haul covid summit.

And then like 24 hours later I have a Well referenced 13 page handout that you're going to all get. And so it's really a privilege and honor to be here and have him share with all of you today. So welcome to the summit James.

– Thank you so much Sharon, it's great to be here and I really appreciate the opportunity for letting me to voice some of the concerns that I have. – Yeah, well, it's, it's great to see you, we, we we've known each other.

Gosh, it's gotta be like 20 years studying bio regulatory medicine together already. And so, um there's pretty much, you know, I think of you as my walking encyclopedia, if there, if there's something I want to know. Well either you're gonna tell me about it or you've already written a well referenced article on it.

So I just wanted to get your knowledge out here today because this is a, you know, a major topic of concern and a lot of people are suffering. So I think to to kick it off, if you can just talk about, you know, what is the difference in bio regulatory medicine and the approach to long haul from conventional medicine. But even from functional medicine, bio regulatory medicine is so much deeper. And so I think if you could just start by sharing that, it would be really useful. – Sure, by regulatory medicine goes in not just the structural and functional aspects of the human being, but also into the energetic psycho, emotional, dental, uh environmental aspects. And so it's a little bit more far reaching I guess you would say in that in that regard. When I say energetic, I'm talking about the biological, energetic part of the human, the uh the energy body, so to speak. And of course we talk about this in Chinese medicine, the key of the body or an iravedic medicine and some of the other traditional medicines. So, you know, this gets into the idea that some of the energetic approaches are also very valuable and helpful, such things as acupuncture. And many people have benefited from acupuncture.

Uh there's a lot of other types of energetic therapies for frequency therapies and where people use different rates and frequencies to help the body heal as well as different kinds of light therapy. Sound therapy.

These we think of as energetic therapies and help with the energetic body. The psycho emotional is also a very important part of it. I can't think of any illness whether it be acute or chronic that doesn't have some kind of psycho emotional component to it. And certainly long Covid is one of those um many people that have uh have long covid uh may came to it sometimes from in a very stressed situation. They may have been traumatized in some way in the past, but certainly just the expiry variance of being very, very ill and being very fearful, fearful. The word is fear is has an effect on the body, has an effect on the immunity of the body.

And so that needs to be addressed to it can't be just looked at biochemically. You know, these kinds of things need to be worked with. So and within a bio regulatory approach we're thinking about, well what can you do to dispel fear?

What can you uh and it starts out, you know, when we first heard about Covid back in like 2020 We heard that oh at least 3, 3% of the people were gonna die and you know, it was really scary for people. People were fearful and and then the media played that up and we were told that we can't even hug people, you know, we can't be around our our loved ones that we need to isolate ourselves, we need to mask ourselves, we need, you know to basically do everything that we shouldn't be doing as a social creature.

And so we are social creatures and we need to, we need to feel loved and to be hugged and have communication with people. And this just compounded the situation.

It created a psychological paradigm or a platform that really had a negative impact on the immunity and on on the body's physiology. And so we wonder, you know, why do people, you know, have long covid?

How do they get long? Covid? A piece of the puzzle is the psycho emotional component. And so we have to acknowledge that and we do acknowledge that in bio regulatory medicine, there's a few other things, you know, the environmental side of it.

With the rollout of 5G there with the roll out of wireless communication technology, which seemed to happen at the same time as, as Covid. And so like in Wuhan where it broke out, they had rolled out 5G on that very, very month that that Covid broke out.

And then other places where you saw an incidence of Covid, you saw that there was a rollout of also the, of the 5G technology, we now know that that many of the symptoms of the wireless communication technology, that the negative symptoms of it are very similar to that of having having Covid.

I'm not saying that Covid is caused by 5G, but I do think that it's a component that it's an environmental component that we need to acknowledge and in some way perhaps uh protect ourselves from.

And so as we get into treatments you know this would be one of them. Absolutely. So we're looking at the energetic side, the psycho emotional side the environmental side uh not just the structural and in in functional medicine side of it. – Fantastic. And yes we are definitely going to talk about treatments and things you can do um for the listeners.

So um diagnosis, laboratory testing um I know you do a lot of tongue pulse. Are there any specific laboratory tests so that the listeners should be asking their physicians for?

– There's a lot that's been documented. The first thing that you want to do is a good hematology because We now know that the immune system is one of the areas where things get pulled down. And so you're looking at the lymphocytes often with the the differential and a white blood cell differential.

The lymphocyte population maybe below 20%. But you could also do subsets of lymphocytes. You could do the C. D four in the cd eight lymphocytes. And what you'll find there with some people is that the cd four count is very very low. And that's what we also saw with with HIV and AIDS. It's it was the Cd four count.

So it's very similar in that in that regard to to HIV AIDS. The C. D. A count may be down but for some people it's up and they have unbalanced ratio and with the cd eight um these killer cells are up that can cause an autoimmune phenomena. So you're looking at that subset.

Uh The second thing to do would be a chemistry. Uh And within the chemistry are particularly looking at a couple of things. One thing is the liver and kidney function, particularly the kidney function. We see that bu ends the blood urea nitrogen is often high with with uh long haulers and this just means that their kidneys are sub optimum. They're not functioning at an optimum level.

Um The there's another area that you want to explore and that is with inflammation uh inflammatory processes. Uh And you could do a c reactive protein as well as homocysteine level. C reactive protein homocysteine are are very good inflammatory markers to look at.

And to track a person with so often both of those can be high. Homocysteine is probably one of the most inflammatory chemicals the body produces. And sometimes it could be mitigated with methyl donors with like methylated folic acid, methylated B B 12. Uh That that seems to help that situation.

But if it goes too high then it will inflame the blood vessels. We now know that that many of these people have clotting disorders and um that are very unusual. Their platelets maybe maybe actually low but they have abnormal blood clots which is kind of counter to that.

Um So platelet count again, you know, you could look at platelet count maybe also low. When you're looking at blood clotting factors, you could do. Fibrinogen is another good one to monitor and d dimmer.

So people are looking at D-dimer levels. D-dimer historically was used as a test to determine like different kinds of um clots in the body, um pulmonary embolus or maybe a deep vein thrombosis or something like that.

But it's certainly a useful test also to to conduct here too. So you could follow a person with the diner. If it's high then you're you know, you want to think about what can you do to thin the blood and uh what in in some natural way. Um And of course they're using uh anti platelet types of uh of things like aspirin now and drugs beyond that for those kinds of individuals within the medical community. But as as a natural path, you're doing bio regulatory medicine, we think of other things instead of that.

Um Those are the main ones of as far as uh of blood chemistries, you can go beyond that into doing things like what I know you do share it and and what I do.

Uh certainly you could look at the uh the autonomic nervous system using heart rate variability. I think this is a very very useful test to determine if there's an imbalance in the sympathetic and parasympathetic usually what you're going to find is the parasympathetic are quite low and that the sympathetic may even be low too. So when you get the sympathetic and parasympathetic slow, that is really a degenerative place to be.

Um So you could monitor a person with what's called heart rate variability. Um to get an idea about the autonomic nervous system. There are some other kinds of functional tests that some people do if a person is having um a oxygen problem, they probably want to get a pulse oximeter where they can monitor their uh their oxygen levels, particularly at night because it may fall really very very low at night. Um and they may not know it.

So um that's a useful home test that they can do. But those are the main ones as far as chemistry and and some of the other kinds of functional tests that you could do. – Great. And so you mentioned natural options for lowering, you know, fitting the blood d dime or what are some of your favorites to use.

– Well, really within, you know, looking at covid, you have to long haul covid uh kind of gauge it to the individual. You know, if you can't just randomly say this is the cookbook recipe for long covid.

And so we want to assess the person on it with all those types of tests and find out, you know what's appropriate if they do have a clotting disorder which many do, then I like to use pro politic enzymes. Um That's one of the key things that I use. Pro politic enzymes are enzymes which like the pancreas, produces prolific enzymes, like trips in and china trips in.

But you could purchase these as a supplement and like there's syrup, pep taste, which comes from silkworms, that's NATO, which comes from NATO. There is our enzymes, which is uh comes from a pig pancreas.

There are other kinds of pancreatic politik enzymes that a person could get and use. These are different than food enzymes. Okay, Some people take food enzymes for for digestion, which is a good thing for those individuals.

But with these type of enzymes, you want to take them between meals, you don't want to take them with the meal because it will um they'll be used up in the digestive process. So you're trying to to focus on taking them uh just between meals, maybe mid morning or mid afternoon and perhaps at at bedtime.

Another thing would be fish oil. Um Fish oil is great for the brain. And and many of these people have brain fog and memory loss as a a problem as a, as a symptom of the long haul covid. Uh And certainly fish oil is a good way to do it. If a person as opposed to using fish oil, they could always use algae oil, it's a little more expensive, but that's where of course the fish get it from. And they get it from the algae.

So um that's another thing, vitamin E. Is helpful as a as an anti coagulant as well. And there's also some herbs that can be used. The the key herb is like turmeric or secure Mick.

And that is of course we think of it as a spice that we add to food, but it has many utilities in the body, it's anti inflammatory and there's as I say, there's an inflammatory component, often with this at the same time it helps to thin the blood and so it has kind of a dual purpose here or can be very beneficial in that way.

So proto lake enzymes, fish oil, vitamin E. circumin. Those are kind of the go to things that person could use. Maybe you have some others that you use. – Yeah, no, I love, I mean I'd probably throw in like lumberkinase is another sure like – That's the earthworm inside. Yeah. – Get a little earth in there.

– Yeah, exactly. – So are you seeing in your practice, are you seeing like more specific symptoms frequently or is it kind of all over the place or what are you actually seeing? – Yes, you know, people come to me often because the medical community sort of has failed them and unfortunately, so I'm seeing a wide variety of symptomology.

A lot of neurological symptomology. So um the cognitive impairment um seizure disorders as well as um tinnitus is a really common one. Brain fog. Is or some type of memory loss is usually a part of that cognitive problem. There's um sometimes you'll see people with um just like essential tremor or other kinds of things like that.

Dermatological things as well. These are these are common. The is along with the fatigue. I mean usually the fatigue is almost I'd say 70% of what people experience, they're just tired and and run down and they can't get their energy back. Uh And they that fatigue may affect their pulmonary function to where they're, you know, they can't go up a flight of stairs without getting winded. So um but it's I wouldn't say all of them experience that but a lot of them are experiencing fatigue shortness of breath and in some type of neurological impairment.

And and so of course I do acupuncture and different types of supplementation for that um and detoxification and the like there's really a protocol that I if you want me to talk about that I kind of approach things with with I think I think of it as a six pillar protocol and um you know what you think of pillars, these hold the roof up, the first pillar is detoxification and you're looking at the biological terrain. The biological terrain is is both a physical and the nonphysical terrain but we're within the biological terrain you can get intoxicated with with a lot of environmental toxins, chemicals, chemicals that we're exposed to that on a daily basis and many of these get stuck within the system, so to speak. They get um trapped within the extra cellular matrix and within some of the the organs themselves, particularly the liver or the kidneys, these organs of detoxification. And they impair those organs.

The organs don't function so well. And so detoxification is I think a primary uh therapy that that needs to be implemented. The first way to do it, you could encourage a person of course to drink more water, you know, because most people are are are dried out.

But then then there's also um yes, there's also other kinds of detoxification that you could do. Sauna is a very very good one. Different kinds of lymphatic drainage techniques um that the lymph system is the garbage disposal system, so to speak. And often a person could tell if they're under their arm, it should be a pit, but it's instead it's a puff, it's it's kind of swollen and that they're lymph is is congested.

This is a very common thing, I'll see. And long haulers is the lymphatic stagnancy so they may benefit from some type of limp automatic drainage protocol, whether it be massage. Lymphatic massage or some type of remedy for for the lymph. Uh the next thing I had mentioned, five G exposure and exposure to wireless technology.

I think this is another issue, it's an environmental issue that the person needs to be removed from. And so there's ways in which they can do that, particularly at night in their sleep space. You know, turning off their wifi, for example, putting their phone on airplane mode um that anybody can go to google and say, you know, ways to avoid uh wifi and they'll they'll get some very good ideas on what they can do to try to shield themselves from from wireless technology. But particularly at night, when we're sleeping at night, this is a time of regeneration and rest and regeneration and we don't need to be exposed to these types of negative frequencies. Um some people are more sensitive to it than others. And so it's not for everyone.

But I think that this is an important part of it too. Also, we know that some of the people coming in with with uh long haul have had diabetes or their they've had wait, wait, they're obese basically weight problems.

And so elevated blood sugars um and you have to modulate them, you have to work with that if that's an issue if a person has, you know, diabetes or their insulin resistant or if they're obese then you need to create a program for them so that they can start losing weight.

So they can start managing their blood sugar because this is a very important part of it that can keep the symptomology rolling. And so we want to to uh work with them in that way is as much as we can.

The mitochondria are the sort of the powerhouses of the cells. And a lot of times there's my what they call mitochondrial impairment. And so there's a list of supplements that can be taken to improve the mitochondria.

I have uh given everyone on that list on on my little pdf that you're going to be giving people. But what I'd like to do is just to kind of quickly go through that for the mitochondrial support, theirs coincide.

Q 10 the essential fatty acids as I say from fish or algae, vitamin C. B. Complex. Resveratrol, al Philip, OIC acid, a settled l carnitine in a settle Sistine, magnesium, zinc and selenium. These are all very useful.

Now a person may not need all of those. You know that there's ways in which you can test to find out what what the person individually needs there. But usually a combination of two or more of those things can help support the mitochondria. The next thing would be immune activation.

We need to work with the immunity And as I mentioned a lot of times that the T cells the T cell emphasizer have have fallen too low and there's different ways to try to get them up.

I like to use mushrooms. And so there's different kinds of mushrooms that a person could use or combinations of them. We're talking about medicinal mushrooms.

Not the funny ones that that people see things. Right. Right. So within the medicinal mushroom category um you have like again a dermal which is the link to Coriolanus. That's turkey tail, the my talkie mushroom. That's grateful.

A fondo psa. Um You also have um a type of America's it's it's a Brazilian. Again this species which is really really strong um as well. And also Cordyceps core the is a very useful mushroom to use. So in combination or even Singley again you could assess the person individually if they need something like that, vitamin D. Cannot be over talked about.

Usually people are running low D. Levels and you want to this is another test to conduct that I missed. You definitely want to do a 25 hydroxy vitamin D. Test to find out where their D.

Levels lie. So often I'll see people that have really woefully low D levels like below 30 which is kind of in the req it category. Um And this uh you really want to get it up I'd say above 70.

This is a more of an optimum range. You want it to be in a high optimum range. Um So you may have to supplement 5000 or even 10,000 day to get them up there.

Sometimes if you add K to it D. With K. That helps to improve the absorption of the D. But definitely getting the D. Up because D. Is is very important for the macrophage activating factor uh which is another type of of white cells. The macrophages.

So the last thing though is is more looking at the intestinal microbiome and working with that can't ignore it. That so often people have a corrupted intestine and they have dysbiosis an imbalance in the micro flora of the intestine.

They may not be digesting well they may have constipation um some kind of irregularity, irritable bowel. Uh You know the list is endless there what can happen? So I like to use of course probiotics and I'm always telling people there's basically two kinds of probiotics you have sport producing a non sport producing probiotics. Most of the type that people use like the different acidophilus lactobacillus acidophilus, lactobacillus species and bifida bacteria species. Those are the non sport producing bacteria and those are important. And so I like to use those cultures and rotate those cultures over time. So you know starting with like Brand A.

And then moving to Brand B. And then brand See because they're gonna get different species but also different strains. And the other kind of probiotics are the spore producing probiotics.

These are your bacillus is primarily and they can be really helpful particularly for detoxification with the person has a maybe other kinds of co infections which is common.

You know if you have a virus you could easily have other kinds of viruses at the same time as we know that that covid a lot of times if the lymphocyte count goes down low enough a person could manifest some of the herpes symptoms that they had uh the C. M. V. Symptoms. Other kinds of viruses that can manifest or become active. And so many times there's co infections, mycoplasma bad bacteria even parasitism. I think parasitism is is under talked about here so you have to kind of work with this in different ways and and trying to determine what is going on with the person individually.

Again I can't stress that enough to you know working with the person individually but these are the basic six pillars detoxification reducing exposure to wireless modulating blood sugar levels and mitochondrial support, immune support as well as the microbiome working with the microbiome of the gut. If you're doing all those things you've got your arms around all those things. Usually you're going to have some success in in this. – That was very exhaustive list and very very important. – Yeah. – So what else what else shall we talk about? – Well you know there's other as I said mentioned that there are different kinds of predisposing factors that people come into this with.

And one of the things is uh their vaccination status you know have they been vaccinated? And so I think that's an important piece of the puzzle to to really look at what vaccines have they had? How many vaccines have they had?

Have they had any reactions to the vaccine or is this a pot possible? What they're experiencing is a reaction to the vaccine because we know that there are hundreds of thousands of people that have had reactions to that to the messenger RNA.

Which really isn't, you know, they changed the definition. I call it an inoculation. Um, instead of a true vaccine. But that I think is also an important piece of the puzzle to to gather up sometimes if they have had a reaction to to that inoculation, then you have to address that too. So in other words, those uh, you could say there's the vaccinated and the unvaccinated that have a long covid. Um, you may have to treat the unveil vaccinated with long covid a little differently than you treat the vaccinated with with with long covid.

And so I'm just gonna leave it at that. Okay. But without getting too incriminating myself and getting too deep into it. But that is an important piece of it that the clinician needs to collect. – Yes. And so we are we are seeing that we're seeing there's people who have had covid and are still suffering.

They're not clearing the virus. And we know that long haul. We have seen long haul from viruses and illnesses way before this. It's just now it's really coming into the light and um, you know, and then there are people who are having reactions to the inoculations.

And so, you know, there can be overlaps but there can definitely be different things that we're seeing happen. And so – I'm glad you mentioned that that you know, this is not a new phenomenon having long haul to a virus or to an infection, whether it be a virus or other kind of microorganism that, you know, this state's back over 100 years where people with different types of, of influences of viral influences developed a sequel of of having a fatigue or or some kind of of immunological problem. So it's really not a new phenomena here, but I would say that it is a very prevalent phenomena that we're seeing it.

You know, uh we don't really know what the prevalence of it is. You know, some statistics go as much as uh 50% of the people may have some degree of long covid for for several weeks, maybe not, you know, extended into the, you know months and years, but for several weeks and so after uh the their fever is broke or the infection has has subsided. And so it there seems to be a very strong prevalence of this. Um, and then, you know, we just have to kind of collect all the data of what um what's going on with that individual, any kind of predisposing factors that they may have and start working with them in that way.

– Right. It makes me think of myasms or constitutions or you know, we think of the tubercular from tuberculosis. Myasm or you know, I remember studying homeopathy and like one of the key notes was never better since mono. And so this is something that we I just feel like it wasn't really wasn't paid attention to. It's kind of like the patients that would end up in our offices and now I'm, you know, at least that we are getting a general consensus that, yes, this actually is an issue and needs to be addressed and people need help.

– And, you know, in collecting information about pre existing things. It's important to know what kind of medicines the person has been exposed to. Two, maybe they were on a string of antibiotics or they took steroids where they took remdesivir. So, that's also important too.

As we know with people that were in the hospitalized on on remdesivir, many of them had had kidney problems and kidney failure. Some of them died. And so that's why we were looking at the kidneys too, and paying close attention to them and what kind of problems that they may have?

And if there is a kidney problem, you know, you need to work with that again. And from a natural perspective, what are some of your favorite ways to support the kidneys first thing again is water, but I like to use magnesium and potassium, I think that that's really important to get their electrolytes back in order.

Most of these individuals may be mineral deficient anyway, Um The but arginine can be also helpful. The amino acid arginine is a very useful amino acid that helps the kidney work better.

Um Beyond that there are homeopathics that are we think of administration you tremities. And some of those I use, there's also herbal formulations as well. But you know you could just start off with trying to balance the fluids and the electrolytes and then maybe adding in some uh the amino acid arginine which is an essential amino acid.

Getting the nitric oxide up. That'll help too. That's another thing that we'll see again when you get back into lab test is this is a test that can be done as a clinician in the office with a simple saliva test to to test their nitric oxide. But this is a very important molecule for circulation after nitric oxide is low. That's what I usually do is recommend beats or recommend origin in to get their nitric oxide up.

– Right, and you mentioned drainage remedies. So I'd love for you to just that is something that really sets us apart in bio regulatory medicine. Could you just talk about set of drainage remedies and what is that?

– Well, right, when you're talking about drainage usually it's it's organ specific. So there you could talk about drainage week, it's kind of another way of saying detoxification or helping the that particular organ eliminate toxins that have been um sequestered within that organ uh space within the architecture of the organs. So you have liver drainage remedies, you have kidney drainage remedies, lymphatic drainage remedies and etcetera, spleen drainage remedies. And so usually you're looking at um certain companies make these um and without going too far into it, I don't know how far you want me to go in. You know, if you want me to actually name some remedies that I use here.

I'd be happy to do so well with lymphatic. then you have to work with the lymph. So um I like it here is by pecanha is a useful one. Lymphoma. Maya sought by heal is also another one. Lymphones by Nessman is a good one.

Lymphodin Um is another one. Um There are actually several out there that can be helpful for this. Um These are again, homeopathic drainage remedies that from different companies.

Most of these companies are German and unfortunately um many of those companies no longer are sold in the United States. Uh though they are and they aren't right. Um So, but that's uh when you think of drainage remedies, that's one of the first areas to go into his lymphatics.

The the second area would be maybe something for the kidneys and that in working with the kidneys. Renelects by Pecanha is another remedy that I would test and use um. Solideco by heal or Solideco composite by series. Those are all useful drain new trinity's for the kidney with the liver, there's just a lot of different ones that you can go with the liver's detoxification is for those that really get into it.

We know it's nutrient dependent. And so there's with liver detoxification, it's sort of a two stage process where in dramatically things are broken down and then they're conjugated with different types of substrates.

Um So you need for example to have B vitamins for methylation, you need to have glycine for glycenation sulfur for salvation. So that liver is in many ways nutrient dependent until you could there are remedies, nutrient remedies to help deliver work more efficiently to detoxify. And that's usually where I I go with it is certain B vitamins as well as maybe certain substrates that helps the liver work.

That like the inessential Sistine is a really good one because it creates glutathione which is glutathione. Conjugation is so important for for the liver's detoxification process.

– So we're really looking at were draining the organs before we're we're flooding with nutrients. And so it's a big difference in bio regulatory medicine where we are draining the matrix, draining the lymph draining the organs so that they can function optimally if if an organ is polluted and you put good things in, it's not gonna be able to be utilized. We have to detox as you were saying in one of your six pillars. Very very important. – Exactly.

I think that drainages and detoxification, that's why I kind of put it as the first pillar. I think it's a very important one and it's one that's often overlooked.

Certainly overlooked in conventional medicine. Sauna. If I hadn't mentioned it enough, sauna is a wonderful way to detoxify and to help with the organ strain.

– Yes. Yes. Yes, Yes. Love the sauna, infrared sauna. So any other last tidbits? I mean, you've you've shared a lot but anything else for the listeners who are dealing with long haul, Covid any other suggestions? – Well, you just don't lose hope.

I mean, you know, as I say, the psycho, emotional part of this, a lot of it began with fear and a person really needs to understand that that uh this they will heal, you know, they can heal uh and the body does self heal.

And this is what you know, of course by regulatory medicine is all about finding ways for the body to self heal and regenerate. Um but just you know, staying hopeful and you know, finding people that you could work with that, it can help um do some of these things that I've talked about, you know, that can help guide you and and and work with you in this way to partner with people. It may take a team of people actually, you know, you may need a an acupuncturist massage therapist, some a structural person to work with you, you know structurally a natural path to to work with you. You know biochemically and and using different remedies in the life. So um you have to really get your arms around many different types of therapies in order to a lot of times have a good result.

But you never want to lose hope. You know, you don't want to get in that um that dark place where you don't want to get out of your house, you don't want to see people you don't want to do anything.

It's important. You know when you feel bad, go for a walk, you know try to go for a walk, see if you can't you know, get out, move around, get a little sunlight, uh breathe some fresh air and and and start to communicate with others. You know uh you need hugs every day, you know try to find somebody and say hey can I hug you?

And most people will be okay with that, you know, so that it's you need that kind of social contact. And so that's my last thing I can really say about it is you know, stay, stay social, stay active and stay hopeful.

– I love that. And so to learn more about the bioregulatory medicine institute which has and a ginormous amount of information for any rabbit hole you choose to go down.

How can people find out more with the website. – Right. Well we have Byron Medicine Institute has been around for four years now and we have an extensive website. It's like a database of information.

It's BRMI.online. BRMI.online. And so you can go there and just peruse around and see why what you can find. But there's information on the history, diagnostics, therapeutics, there's articles, there's videos, there's news, there's a lot of things, there's uh, we have archived, for example, all of your um, podcast to Sharon and some of, I mean they're just great, their brilliant. So that's all there as well.

And it could spend, you know, hours listening to those podcasts. Another platform we have is the, the E journal, which because bi monthly journal and all of this is free by the way, you don't have to have membership. You don't have to spend a dime.

You know, we are nonprofit noncommercial. We don't sell anything either. So you're not gonna see pop ups, you know, across your screen saying, you know, buy this product or anything like that.

We're totally dependent upon donations. So if if you're inclined to donate to us, so please do um, that we could always use that to help promote more programs and and keep this this ball rolling of trying to empower people with information that's free that they don't have to pay for. So, and then, you know, the other platforms that we have of course is is the one that you are involved with.

And that's the science of self healing with, with the podcast, which is a bi weekly podcast that everyone really should tune into and listen to that because there's you have some great uh great speakers there as well as we put on conferences and workshops too, so that you can go eyeball to eyeball with people and and meet others and and learn learn more this way as two. So these are the programs that we're, we we have so far. But certainly the website is a good place to start and the podcasts are a good place to start in the E journal to sign up for the each journal. So these are all things that you want to to look into. – Right. Yeah, we the the website is, you know, an encyclopedia of bio regulatory medicine.

And so you can, like I said, go down any rabbit hole of treatments of philosophy, um therapeutics and diagnostics, It's just all there. It's a great place to get lost. And so if you're wanting to learn more about by by a regulatory medicine, that's a great place to do it.

And as as James said, it is, it is non profit. I do have a podcast and so we're just really committed um practitioners who have studied a lot. Have, you know, clocked how many miles going back and forth to Europe and to Germany and Switzerland and just really wanted to share it with everyone because sometimes when you're not getting the help you need, bio regulatory medicine looks at it from such a broader perspective and you can find the answers you need.

So I'm so glad you came and we're here and you know, I did not like I told you he's like a walking encyclopedia. That's why the website is like an encyclopedia.

So thank you for all you do and I'm sure, and thank you for all you do. – And it's been really a pleasure to be a part of this for him. – Thank you so much. And so check out the website and be sure to listen to this interview again and you're going to get his hand out.

So you're gonna have the documents, you're going to have lots of information. So if we don't get to talk about it tonight, make sure you read his e book where all the information will be from his brain to your to your paper and help you on your healing journey.

So we'll be back soon. Thanks for being here. – Thank you.

James Odell, ND, LAc, OMD

Take Back Your Health From Long Haul With Bioregulatory Medicine