Introduction to Neuronic and Jordan Hamlin

Welcome again to The Parkinson's Solutions Summit 2.0. I'm your host, Dr. Ken Sharlin. And today's very special guest is Jordan Hamlin. Jordan is a, employee now of Neuronic.

We're going to be talking about this amazing technology. The photo bio modulation helmet. Let me see if I can get it in the, in the camera properly. Here.

there you go. Neuronic. And this is a pretty cool device. Might not fit too well over my headphones, but nevertheless, we'll have it here. And, talk about why photo bio modulation is sort of the new frontier in therapeutics for Parkinson's disease.

without further ado, Jordan, welcome to the Parkinson's Solutions Summit. Thank you so much for having me. Well, Jordan, as we kind of dive into things I think is going to be super exciting.

Just, if you would just tell our audience a little bit about yourself, the work you you've been doing, and the journey to becoming part of the Neuronic organization.

Yeah, absolutely. So I started at a mental health clinic in Asheville, North Carolina, back in 2016. I was trained as a neurofeedback technician and started seeing clients there, and I really enjoyed the modality.

I thought it was incredibly helpful, but there are always those clients who just didn't seem to make any progress, and those are the ones that you get stuck with at night.

You know, how can I help them? What can I do? and in 2020, as a Covid project, I started studying light, and realized the incredible benefits that it had, especially for some of these really difficult cases.

I started with visual light. but it led into more research with, infrared light and I actually stumbled upon it because I had mold toxicity issues. I still had the chronic fatigue, the brain fog, all of those things that just hadn't really been improving.

and I heard about infrared light being a helpful resource for this. So I purchased, kind of cheap belts off of the internet and started using it and noticed some benefits, but then find out what else was there.

And I stumbled upon the Neuronic, Neuradiant 1070 Helmet, and got it for myself last March, then 2023, and started noticing within a month that my energy had significantly improved my memory especially.

Has it significantly improved? it was kind of an amazing transition. So I used it with some of my clients as well.

Jordan's Path Into Photobiomodulation

But the more that I was learning and reading and researching and the more I just really wanted to be involved with this technology. and that led to me now working for an hour on it.

That is awesome. You know, we sort of operate, you know, as a country, as, you know, globally in this sort of allopathic lead driven medical model where our options for treatment is generally a drug or surgery.

Sometimes there's a little in between interventional cases or a quiet surgery, but certainly not a drug. But in any rate, you know, it's been known for some time that various, energy modalities and I mean that very literally, we're certainly all about things like Reiki and, you know, acupuncture and things like that, but literally energy meaning sound or light, electricity, electromagnetic fields, vibration, which of course, is a form, you know, form of sound, I suppose.

But all of these have well documented, researched evidence based, you know, evidence, sounds redundant that they have direct therapeutic benefits across the board in many different areas.

It could be cognition, it could be language, it could be, improved motor control after stroke. It could be depression, for example. So, just to sort of first emphasize that this is really, I would say mainstream science, the problem has been that we're too quick to reach for the drug or only the drug.

And that's not to say the drug is a bad thing and not make use of these other types of energy modalities in here, specifically, light to our photo bio modulation.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's where my a lot of my interest was, especially in my clinic. We saw people who typically a drugs didn't work for them where they had some reason they were unable to take them, whether it was a medical condition or a, you know, contraindication.

So they were coming and seeking out these alternative forms. And I was happy to be able to to find some different modalities to offer them. It's really incredible.

So we are talking specifically about light, and I really want to dive into that. The other thing that you said that really resonates with me, you know, as a Parkinson's doctor, if you will.

It's not that one of the inherent characteristics of Parkinson is with its depletion of dopamine is that it not only affects motor systems directly, but I would say sort of emotional motor systems, meaning motivation, drive, desire.

I know what I need to do, but it's just really hard to get myself to do it. And in a clinic where we, you know, not only work with Parkinson's, but things like Alzheimer's, where there may be very significant cognitive impairment.

You and I were talking off screen a little bit about other modalities that are really fantastic, different forms of biofeedback or neurofeedback. But the the issue there is they require a lot more engagement, if you will.

And it seems to me that one of the incredible things about this technology is that it doesn't seem to require a lot of time, and it doesn't seem to require a whole lot more than put it on and press the button.

But I'm I'm sure we're going to get into that in detail. So can we talk about photobiomodulation, what it is, and specifically transcranial photobiomodulation.

Absolutely. So Photobiomodulation really just refers to the effect of light on the body through cellular processes. this is a natural thing that we get anyway, just being outside in the sun, you know, it's something that feels good.

People talk about vitamin D a lot, but we don't really think as much about the infrared side of the light and how much impact that has on our body and on our processes.

So Photobiomodulation in general just refers to the use of these longer wave forms, red or infrared light on the body. But to me, where I've gotten so excited is the use of it.

Transcranial being able to put light on the head has really shown to make a lot of differences in cognition and memory for people recovering from strokes.

And then, like you said, providing this additional energy for the brain to do the things that we want to do, but you just can't if those dopamine pathways have been depleted, you know, you might think, I know that I need to get out and go for a walk, but being able to actually get to that point to do it is just something that's so hard for people being able to add a little bit more energy into the brain, increase the cellular metabolism.

You can really start to make things easier for somebody to do that they're wanting to try and do. Yeah. So I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm one of those guys that doesn't have a lot on top here at this stage in my life, just about 60 years old.

What Photobiomodulation Is and Why It Matters

And so, you know, I could go outside on a nice sunny day here in Ozark, Missouri, and I'm going to get some light on my head. And that's not bad. I'm also going to get light in the back of my eye, which we know is very important.

but but this is different. I mean, this is look at the look at all of these, you know, little, you know, electrodes in here. tell me about this and why this is different than simply going out and exposing myself to the sun.

Absolutely. It's actually part of the history is that heliotherapy was a thing. You know, back in the day, people would go to specific areas that were really sunny, and then they lay outside and it was helping them feel better from different illnesses.

But of course, also with that you have the risk with UV and potentially getting sunburned skin damage or even skin cancer at some point. This is where I think something like our helmet is a great option.

That's a safer alternative. There's no UV light that's occurring from this. You don't have any risk of getting burned or injured from it, and it's still a natural, form of healing.

it's also different because of it being concentrated in this way. So instead of with the sun, you have this full spectrum of light. So you are getting all of these different things which again, like you said, is a great thing, especially for our eyes and being able to regulate our circadian rhythms.

But this is just a concentrated form with the infrared light only to be able to just focus in on those benefits. And since it's concentrated, you don't have to be out as long doing these sessions for only 10 to 15 minutes.

Maybe at a max can provide a lot of benefits, and that makes it easier for somebody to fit in their day, you know, and just use in your regular life. So it's, it's near infrared light and that falls within a certain range freq, frequency range.

But I understand with neuron they're actually targeting, targeting things even more narrowly a very specific light frequency. Is that correct. And and why is that?

Why does that particular light frequency have so much importance. Absolutely. So at Neuronic and we use 1017 nanometer light, which is on the upper end of that near infrared range near infrared light is between, you know, roughly 700 nanometers and 1100 nanometers, depending on where you look.

But generally, so we're on the higher end. What Neuronic notice is that a lot of the other devices that are out there typically operate more so in around the 800 to 150 nanometer range.

They're getting great results with it. But one of the issues is that there's greater light scattering that occurs. So that just means once you're putting it on the head, it's able to reach a lot less of a depth because there's so much scattering of the light that occurs.

Once you get up into these higher frequencies over a thousand nanometers. And like I said, ours is the 1070 nanometers. There's a lot less light scattering.

And so the light's able to penetrate deeper into the brain. This is where we feel like you get greater lasting effects, potentially, because while it's great to have a stimulation with the gray matter of the cortex, it's also something where we might need extra support for the white matter as well, which is really that structural foundation within the brain.

So this is where we've chosen to target this higher nanometer. So we've got this very specific helmet. We know that we can use it for 10 to 15 minutes at a wavelength that is preset.

If I have Parkinson's, what kind of things might I expect over time? And I like to, if you can explain it to me, the way I talk with patients is that there are broadly two types of therapies overall, and that's out even outside this, that there are symptomatic management.

They're targeted, they're symptoms that bother people. And then there's what we call disease modifying therapy. And you know, what is the possibility that by using this type of technology theoretically, theoretically, we might be able to even slow the progression of Parkinson's just based on known mechanisms?

Absolutely. Yeah, I think there's there's such a wide range of benefit. So it's great to bring it up in this way. There's certainly a point, you know, a anybody if you've reached a certain stage of a disease, we might just be managing the quality of life more so.

So being able to improve mood and energy, improve sleep quality can help somebody improve their cognition and be able to engage with their life more. The earlier on that you are in a disease, though, the more likelihood that we can actually have greater outcomes from it.

and potentially even if you can get to that point of pre disease, then there might be a protective measure. So part of what the photobomb modulation is, is that it works on cells at the cellular metabolism rate to be able to improve functioning throughout the body.

even when you're targeting the brain, which can increase energy and increase your cognition. But there's also the other side of it that it has a neuroprotective effect.

So using it prior to, for instance, there's a study that was done with rats and they had injected them with the toxin using the light prior to them being injected with the toxin, significantly improve their recovery levels and significantly improved outcome of life afterwards.

So there's a lot of different ways with this that maybe it is just a symptom management for quality of life, maybe it's actually improving some of these symptoms.

And then also potentially the neuroprotective aspect of it.

Why the 1070 nm Helmet Is Different

How do you can you explain a little bit of the science behind that. Like how does this act. Does it actually do that. Yeah, absolutely. So the way that photo bio modulation works is that it's absorbed by the mitochondria and specifically photo receptors inside of our mitochondria called cytochrome c oxidase or Co.

this is a really important step in the cellular, metabolism, cycle. And at this point when the Co is activated, it produces adenosine triphosphate or ATP, ATP is essentially the the key factor in our bodies that make us move and do so being able to contract your arm or move your wrist.

All of these require ATP to be able to be sent to these areas. So once you start having anything of a stressor that's gotten to the point where you're decreasing the ATP production, it just becomes a lot harder to do those things.

Having something supplementary like using photo bio modulation for this can start to increase that ATP production, which has an effect on your entire system of being.

And as that continues, hopefully it builds on it. The more it's easier to move, the more you want to move, the more ATP you produce. And it continues around. And, I love that, I love that.

So it's kind of a positive feedback loop. The more you do, the more you can do. Right? Absolutely important. That's really great. Now I also know that you specialize in something called you EEG.

And if we can take a few minutes to talk about what QED is, that would be great because, you know, this is directly linked to the neuron IC photo by a modulation helmet.

And, you know, it's what people want to feel better. People want to function better. They want to live longer, healthier. They want to slow the progression of Parkinson's.

You know? But what I like about the addition of the QG, is it it sort of objectifies it. It shows people that the helmet is actually doing what it's supposed to be doing.

We're not just operating on faith, we're not operating on I think it's helping or I think I feel better. Right. So could we can we let's bring into the fold the QG.

I think it's really important. Absolutely. I mean, it's something I very much love. So I'm always happy to talk about it. and EEG is just the recording of the electrical activity, done at the surface of the scalp, recording the electrical activity of the brain.

this is done in real time. So we're getting an actual picture of how somebody is functioning. And it's either usually a resting state one or task dependent dependent that how somebody is functioning right now in this moment.

This makes it really different from things like an MRI or a Cat scan, which are more snapshots of the structural, being of whatever it's looking at, or in this case, the brain.

But the EEG is looking at the actual electrical activity. So not just the structural components of it, but how it's functioning now where we're at. So you'll go into a facility typically it's a 19 channel lead is what most places do.

And it's the easiest test you'll ever have to take, because at most places you just have to sit there for about half an hour. So it's quite it's painless to do, it's easy and it provides a ton of information through.

We've gone through the acquisition period. It's run through a process in software to provide us a brain map or the quantitative EEG. That's the part where we really get a closer look at the different areas of the brain.

How they're functioning independently, and how they're functioning together as a whole. So one of the things that we see, for instance, with people with neurodegenerative diseases, there's a lot more slowing of activity, which, again, is going to make it harder for you to do the things that you're trying to do.

And as that progresses, it can build on itself in that negative cycle, it's harder to do this, so you do less and then it can continue with slowing. What's exciting that I've noticed with incorporating photo bio modulation with it, is that we're actually seeing an increase in the global activity, which I was taught back in the day, that that was not a real thing.

You know, that that was kind of like you had your energy and it either was that or it decreased.

Potential Benefits for Parkinson's and Neuroprotection

so being able to see this shift in energy in people who should be moving in the opposite direction has been a really exciting and promising thing to me.

Gives people a tremendous amount of motivation to stick with the tool that's there. And, you know, we have we kind of talk about some of the downsides of traditional medicine.

But I tell people I'm still I still practice that kind of medicine, but my toolbox is a lot bigger than the average, you know, practicing neurologists.

So we incorporate all these other things. My point being is that we tend to be very, sort of anatomically obsessed. Like, you have a problem, let's get an MRI.

And, you know, you and I both know that for the most part, somebody with Parkinson's or Alzheimer's, you know, especially in early stages, gets an MRI.

Chances are better than not that. I mean, it's going to be a normal MRI, or certainly any findings that are identified will be very, very nonspecific.

Some microbes, vascular changes, things like that, that don't necessarily point to a disease or a difficulty that the person is having. So we have to shift that thinking for folks that there's anatomy and there's physiology and physiology is what we're talking about now.

And the ability to sort of take a snapshot electrically of the brain, allows us to look at the physiology, to see changes over time and to also show our patients that from the very beginning, because there is sort of a psychology, to the journey that we need to take, which is at what point are you ready to make those changes or what point you're like, okay, you know, this is the new reality and this is where I need to go.

And I'm very, very motivated and there's a huge difference, from between telling someone or explaining to someone versus showing them. And this is really showing them, and it's very effective.

Absolutely. Yeah. You get to see it in the, in a colorful map, even if you don't have a high level of expertise. You can look at this map and see, you know, okay, these regions were blue.

They were really under activated. And now they're moving more towards this green side where they're functioning at a more efficient level. And, you know, that's easy for anybody to see.

So it feels really good to have those results, you know, placed in front of you I think yeah, people get a ton out of it and feel really supported. Now when you do this, do you recommend that there be a, self-reported, pencil and paper, so to speak, instrument that's used in conjunction with QGis.

So you say? Well, how do you essentially it says, are you experienced this? How do you feel? And the answer, you know, none at all. Mildly sometimes, often you know, whatever.

And then we take the QG and show them that, you know, either correlates 100% or where we can show them over time what changes have been accomplished. But I at least find that when we have the the self-reported instruments hand in hand with the QG, that's even more affirming when people say, I think I'm feeling better, this is where I am.

And we go, you are. You are. It is right. And they're like, yeah, you know. exactly. And I also think, I think that that's such an important part, right?

I mean, it's fantastic to be able to have that, which I've also seen people who are just validated in an intake form and then getting the EEG, and they're saying they're struggling with something and you can say, yeah, we can see that here.

People feel validated from that. You know, it's not just in my head. This is really how I feel. But one of the other things that we've noticed that we do with our consultations is we have people choose their own metrics, whether it's I want to be able to cook more or I want to be able to, you know, converse with my family, whatever that might be, that's personal for them, that even if we don't see a change that's occurred in the quantitative EEG, but they're reporting that this is better for them.

I think that that still has so much value. So we like to incorporate that as well. Additionally, we also do use cognitive fit, as you know, a more, unbiased measure.

So there's no, you know, subjective issue with it. and that can be a helpful thing. Some people, it's just too long of a task or they're not able to do it because it is computer based.

But it's another great tool to just add to it, to see the progress over time. So cognition certainly can be very much a part of Parkinson's, especially some form of mild cognitive impairment.

There was a recent article suggesting that perhaps the onset of Parkinson's related dementia has been overestimated, or at least thought to affect people at earlier stages of their movement disorder than we now think, based at least on this most recent article.

That's that's a very encouraging thing. but what I'm getting to now is we still sort of if I say Parkinson's and, you know, you're maybe not a clinician, immediately think of tremor.

You might immediately think of the shuffling gait, the rigidity, the change in posture. And so what I'm getting at is we talk about photo via modulate.

And very often we think about improving mood, well-being, energy. let's talk about motor symptoms and how maybe that's tied in with mitochondrial function.

Yeah absolutely. So that's part of it. And you know the reality is in aging, normally things can be a little bit harder than, you know, the toddler at the park who just, you know, flips over and falls down into a split and they have no problem with it.

But the older that you get, oh, that would not go over quite as well for most people. So it already is a part of a normal aging process, is that things just start slowing down a little bit more.

And we have less ATP. So things are a little bit harder when you look at it. With Parkinson's in particular, it's this combination of of a sped up, few of that, but also with the, the dopamine, cells dying off.

How Photobiomodulation Works in the Brain

So it's disrupting this pathway that's producing the movement. then you have both of these things that are working in tandem kind of against us, you know, to to be able to function.

This is where, again, we, we like using the 1020 nanometers instead is that area of the brain where this dopamine pathway is being disrupted is quite deep.

It is not close to the surface, you know, up at the top of the head, but it's much deeper in it. So trying to reach those areas really requires a longer wavelengths to be able to penetrate deep enough to stimulate them.

Once you can impact this and start potentially protecting some of these pathways, or at least positively influencing them, that can have an entire systemic effect to be able to help with the movement.

there's actually a study that was done just a couple of years ago, and they had used, photo bio modulation helmet for ten weeks with, single case study.

this man was really dealing with the tremors, you know, only able to lift his arm so high and really struggled with being able to stand up, to be able to move and walk.

His gait was okay. It was a little slow, but being able to just get to the point of standing up was such an issue. And it's an incredibly profound video to watch, is here's this guy, and after ten weeks, they have it at the beginning baseline and it's showing him trying to stand up.

And like the whole video is just him trying to stand up this one time. And at the end of the ten weeks, he's just up and down and up and down and up and down and up.

I mean, so many times. And being able to see those next to each other, I mean, you would think it's totally different. People like it's it's absolutely wild.

And what a difference that would make in your life. Because again, if you could stand up and down that easily, you would be more likely to get up. You're more likely to go out.

You're more likely to do these things because it's not going to be as difficult. So I think this is where it all feeds into each other to just have greater outcomes with it.

And ten weeks is not that long. Ultimately, to be doing this, to have these results, it's pretty impressive. Absolutely. Yes. That is very impressive.

Now is that I'm just curious, is that a video that people could, you know, look up on YouTube at this point? Absolutely. And so this is by Paul Chazelle.

and I'm sorry if I said his name wrong, that Paul Kazi Ott. and actually the video is called How Infrared Light Can Reverse Alzheimer's. But about 20 minutes into this video, then he talks about this particular study and shows this video, of this particular participant.

it's it's absolutely amazing. I would recommend anybody to go and watch it. Now, this is technology, that, you know, well, moronic is a leader within this particular niche, this technology broadly photo by a modulation has been around for a little while in the sense that we're not we're not talking about something that is not backed by science.

This is backed by science. And if folks were to go to, say, the National Library of Medicine, what we call pub med, and just cross-reference photo, bio modulation and Parkinson's, you're going to find a lot of studies.

Using QEEG to Measure Brain Changes

Absolutely. Yeah, there's there's quite a bit there's even a database of all of the photo bio modulation studies that have ever occurred. And that's just looking at, you know, really the the photo bio modulation, not necessarily any kind of form of light.

and there's over 7000 studies that are on this. So it's definitely not, a new kind of thing that people are just sorting, sorting out right now. You know, this is something that that has a lot of research backing.

And again, it's natural. One of the huge draws is that there's minimal side effects. If somebody has a side effect from it, typically we think it's probably from dehydration and it goes away within a couple of hours.

Maybe you have a headache or you're a little bit more sleepy, but that's about it. There's nothing that's been lasting, and there's more trials that are coming out that are following.

Photo bio modulation being used over long periods of time, just backing this data even further, that there's no lasting damage or issues with being able to use it for long periods.

So it's a pretty safe, that for something when you're looking to get some help with your brain. Well, let's let's walk then through this process. So, this is essentially recommended by clinicians, correct.

In other words, if a person just went to the Neuronic online website, could they just purchase a device or do they have to go through their provider? Absolutely, yes.

I mean, always with anything that's, you know, dealing with a possible physiological intervention. We always recommend that you check with your provider before starting anything new.

But absolutely, again, because this is a safe technology, it's generally considered even wellness. So that's that's the level of safety that it's at. So people can certainly go on our website.

They can purchase it themselves. And if they need any extra guidance, we offer, a free set up talk. And then you can also purchase a consultation. We can give you a little bit more of these personalized protocols, but the technology is designed for you to be able to order it yourself, get it home, set it up and just push a button.

It's a really easy technology to use that I think anybody can. So I've been to your site many times. It is an erotic online for folks. And we'll make sure you're, you're very clear on that.

You have also a master class. and I noticed that you can do a, like a three month consultation. So you have somebody that's meeting with you periodically to help guide you through the proper, safe and ultimately effective use of this device.

Yeah, absolutely. So we really try to make sure that you feel supported once you, purchase your device. It's not something where we just leave you off on your own.

You have us to be able to help guide you through any of these things. And then, yes, this option for a three month package, which requires getting the quantitative EEG with it so that we can have a better and more in-depth look to really make it personalized for the individual.

And do you direct folks to say, here's the closest clinic or place where you can get have a Gooigi? Do you have partnerships around the country? We do. We have a map on our website.

at this point of, I think, almost 1000 quantitative EEG providers around the world. So you're able to set it up. And yes, if you can't find one, you can contact us.

There's also options for remote, acquisition too, that we can help set you up with. So even if there's not somebody that's in your area, we can connect you with someone to be able to do a remote recording.

Well, what I'm going to find and we'll talk offline about that. But I want to but we actually do offer QG in our clinic. I it is I don't call it Chag because part of a bigger, sort of package of tests together called an evokes test from evoke neuroscience.

So the big component of evokes is the chag component. We actually interviewed Doctor Dave Higdon. I interviewed him just last week. I don't know, the order of the, interviews is going to be when we all go live with the summit.

But, David is, presently the CEO, chief scientific officer and one of the developers of the Vox test. but we certainly do that in the clinic. And, but I did I wasn't aware of the remote option as well.

That's really good news for folks. Yeah, it's getting only more and more accessible all the more that I think it's gaining some traction now that people realize how valuable this testing measure can be.

Now, of course, there's, these, you know, everything that you put on your body like this, has some kind of five, ten K clearances or FDA cleared for safety, etc.

and you've talked about that is very, very safe. Yeah. So this is why it's considered a wellness device for these types of light. because the diodes that are inside of it are actually LEDs.

So they're just something that, you know, you have around in your house too, and you're able to just go by and purchase them. These are a specific type to be able to be, in our wavelengths, but they are a safe technology.

So with the FDA clearance for a wellness device, which is a high level of safety. Excellent. Okay. So I want the device, I go to the site, I purchase the device, I get my colleague, you know, walk kind of walk me through this.

He said very self. I mean, if I just wanted to do it myself I could. But it sounds like might be a good idea to get some expert guidance with this. At the same time.

Yeah, absolutely. Especially if you have some more of these complicated medical issues or a history of things in your family. I kind of recommend people to go ahead and get a quantitative EEG.

It's good for you to know about what's going on in your body, but it's helpful for us to make a more personalized protocol. So certainly like like our device is set up with these four presets on it.

Each of these are things that are going to be very generally considered safe. so you could certainly just start by using those. But if you sign up for our consultation, you'll schedule with either myself or with, another one of my consultants.

we'll meet with you, make sure you're comfortable with the device set up. Make sure that it's fitted to your head, because that's a huge part of it. We want it to be comfortable for you as well.

And then we can set up even, customizability all the way down to, one quadrant or any number out of the four quadrants. We can adjust the pulse rate for it.

So there's different research back in different pulse rates for various conditions or issues, and then the intensity as well, because some people are just a little bit more sensitive than others, and some people really need a higher dose.

Motor Symptoms, Research, and Safety

So being able to customize all of these different features can really make it personalized for the individual and where they're at. That's that sounds really important to me.

I would highly recommend taking that approach. rather than sort of the out of the box, you're on your own kind of thing. I think this sounds much better, much, much better now, ten minutes a day and any particular time of day.

And actually I learned, that sometimes more is not better, that there's sort of a benefit curve where at some point, if you use it too much, you could actually make the situation worse.

Absolutely. so there's there's a biphasic dose response. and this is based on a principle of, for Mrs.. Or like the proper amount of stress to be able to activate the body without stressing it too much that it's harmful.

And you can think about that is, you know, if you went to the gym and you were training and you just lifted all of the heaviest possible weights that you could the entire time, your body's likely going to be stressed and there's a high chance for injury.

So we work on the biphasic dose response to be enough of this light so that you get these positive benefits with ATP, and more of this functioning without going too far, where you've surpassed the ATP threshold and now you can have more of these, you know, possibly damaging things.

A lot of the things that we see with that mostly out there that people really, end up struggling with sleep if they just use it too late in the day. So when you're asking about, you know, the time of day, I think that's one of the really important things we try to tell people to do.

If they're doing it once a day, you know, in the morning, ideally before 9 or 10:00 in the morning, if you're doing it twice a day, then, you know, once before 9 or 10:00 and then the second session to be before 5 or 6 in the afternoon.

That way you don't really risk as much of the, issues with sleep, potentially. And you also have enough of a break in between these two sessions for the body to re, stabilize with, energy production so it can really take in all of these photons, go through this process of where messes settle back down into homeostasis.

Before you give it this second, second session. And not everybody needs twice a day. But there's certain conditions, like when we're talking about neurodegeneration, we're probably getting it.

And twice a day is going to be more ideal since we're actively fighting back against something. And you're going to chances are you're going to be using this indefinitely.

I mean, this is not something where we do it for five weeks, three days a week, and we're good. For for conditions like that. I will say for other things that might be more acute injuries than they they are definitely showing benefits from it.

And for instance, one of the studies that we partnered with was, looking at long Covid for these individuals. They were doing it three times a week for one month.

and afterwards were reporting that their brain fog was clear. They were feeling a lot more energy, their sleep was improved, all of these different aspects from it, and they discontinued use afterwards.

But that was, again, a more acute, issue that had occurred rather than, neurodegenerative disease, which is, you know, much longer term. Yeah, huge, huge potential applications.

I can imagine, even for things like post-concussion syndrome would be potentially quite beneficial. So, you know, the big question a lot of people ask, is it covered by my insurance?

I don't think it is, but you tell me, are you seeing any insurance coverage at this point? We are at this point. But I think where I find the benefit in this particular kind of technology isn't it isn't invasive and you're not, you know, sticking things in your ears or your nose or anything.

It's just sitting on the head when you do this. It's a real investment for potentially your entire household, or any friends or family that you have near you as well.

Everybody can share it. And there's benefits that anybody can get from this, whether it's more on that neuroprotective side. You know, maybe nothing serious is going on yet, but you certainly want to protect yourself or on even a caretaker who might be a little bit burnt out because it's a very stressful position to be in.

You deserve to get some extra support as well. And there's still benefits that can happen from this. Or for a person who is dealing with the disease like Parkinson's.

So while insurance doesn't cover it, I do think it's a good investment for your long term health and quality of life. Very good. And are you seeing maybe some FSA or HSA type reimbursement?

Because we sometimes do see that even with, without the regular, you know, BlueCross setting, UnitedHealthCare type coverage. It's something that we've been working on and I have seen, I mean, recently, they're starting to approve it for more issues.

So I do think it's something that will come up within the next couple of years, if not sooner. Another thing that we're seeing, we do in our clinic, we see a lot of people for bioidentical hormones, optimization, which you know, that by itself has tremendously, positive effects on the brain, which is why a neurologist like me would be interested in things like testosterone style and progesterone.

How to Buy, Use, and Return the Device

And so even though these bioidentical hormones, at least in the form of pellets, are not necessarily covered by insurance, our office visit is covered.

Our lab tests are covered. You know, we could potentially have the EEG covered by insurance. So there's a lot of ways to defray the costs. And for, you know, a one time investment.

You know, I tell people, you know, there's we mentioned this a few minutes back that, you know, and as a medical culture, we're very obsessed with, you know, MRI's and imaging.

We want these total body MRI's and like look at everything, which is just not very realistic. And, you know, just a single MRI could cost thousands of dollars and nobody is actually fixed quote unquote, from an MRI.

So it's just information. But this is an investment that's actually therapeutic and beneficial in the long run. So it's you know, one investment that just pays you back over and over and over again.

Exactly. Yeah. There's no subscription model. There's nothing else that comes with it. Once you have purchased this, it is all yours. You have access to anything that you need.

So yes, it's something that that I really think is a great investment in there, built to be durable. And we have amazing customer service. If there's any issue.

Technical support or if there's some kind of malfunction, these are covered under some sort of warranty. Right, exactly. Yeah. So so we have, a three month warranty with it.

Even at the beginning, if the entire thing were to end up just breaking. but after that, yeah, we'll we'll still give you, new cords if something happens with those, or, you know, something happens with the controller screen or any of that, we can replace that for you.

for, you know, at least a year. I'll. And if someone were to try this and say, you know, I'd use it for a couple of weeks, we know they're going to love it, but, you know, I get asked these questions.

is there any kind of, policy as far as that goes? You know, it's kind of satisfaction guaranteed. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's we have a three month window after somebody purchases where they're able to return and you'll get 80% back.

And the only reason it's 80% instead of 100% is just a cover for the shipping cost as well. but you'll pretty much be getting back your entire investment of there.

And we give you that span of three months because we want you to have time to see if it's working. It's not meant to be a gimmick or anything like that.

We we know what the benefits can be and where we're happy to back this time span to for you to be able to see them as well. Very good. Well, Jordan Hamlin, I really appreciate you being part of The Parkinson's Solutions Summit.

This has been very informative. I've learned stuff that I'm going to bring back to my clinic and, you know, we're just getting started, with this helmet.

and I'm truly looking forward to getting as many of my Parkinson's patients using this, even Alzheimer's MS, you know, across the board anywhere. If you got ahead and you got a brain and you got mitochondria, you're going to benefit.

You know, you're gonna benefit from this product. It is really amazing. and again, very science backed, well published, peer reviewed, the whole nine yards. You know, this is not a gimmick.

This is not a gadget. This this is this is, you know, wellness for your brain. so I, I really appreciate your time and, certainly hope to we have an opportunity to visit again in the very near future.

Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Sharlin I really appreciate it. Jordan, just before we sign off, is there anything you'd like people to know? I've mentioned the website.

You can say that again. neuronic.online. Any other things you'd like them to know before we say goodbye today that will really help them obtain one of these.

Use it. already promotion or anything like that. That may help inform people more about the benefits of using an Neuronic helmet. Absolutely. For anybody who's watching this, we do have a discount code.

It's DrTalks15. And if you enter that onto our website you can get a discount code for it. So this investment that's already quite worth it. You can now get it for even cheaper.

and of course if there's any other questions or anybody needs anything, we have our support line on our website. Please feel free to reach out to us. We're happy to help in any way we can.

Okay. I'm going to quote from, you know, the famous movie The Godfather, because this is an offer you can't refuse, right? Because you earn it. You get it 15% off.

And if you don't like it, you send it back, okay, 20%, but already got 15% off. So yeah, I mean, do the math here, folks. This is so worth it, right? This is so worth it.

It is an amazing product. Again, if I could just fit it on my head over my headphones, that'd be a that'd be wonderful. But Jordan, thank you so much.

And again, we really appreciate your time, your expertise and look forward to reconnecting in the very near future. Thank you.

Jordan Hamlin, BCN

Photobiomodulation For Parkinson’s And Brain Health