The crucial thing is that we don't move everything. Just inflammation is worse. The fascia tightens up. Your brain doesn't work. So that, to me, is just key.

The exercise, the good nutrition, and then being outside and being in the sunlight, that really contributes to a happy, healthy, long life. This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.

Welcome back to the Think Well, Age Well podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Heather Sandison, and today I'm honored to welcome a true pioneer in holistic healing, Linda-Ann Kahn.

With over four decades of experience in integrative therapies, Linda-Ann is a board certified lymphatic therapist, clinical aromatherapist, she was sharing some secrets with me just before I hit record, integrative health coach, and founder of Beauty Clinic and Lymphatic Therapy Services in San Diego.

She brings a rare depth of wisdom to her work, combining scientific understanding of the lymphatic and immune systems with a nurturing individualized perspective on care.

Her expertise spans from lymphedema and lipedema, that's a mouthful, support detoxification, hormonal balance, skincare, and emotional healing. Linda Ann's commitment to helping others age with vitality, grace, and connection is deeply aligned with the mission of this podcast.

And more than that, Linda Ann is just this shining beacon of how to do it. I was telling her that I want to be her when I grow up because Linda Ann is, she is someone who is aging with more vitality and more grace than the vast majority of people I have the privilege of getting to know.

So Linda Ann, welcome. Thank you so much. It's so beautiful to be on this podcast and I'm just so proud of you for all the work that you do. I look up to you as a leader.

Oh, thank you. You have had a rich and diverse career. What originally drew you to lymphatic therapy? Well, that's a very interesting question because I actually have a connective tissue disease called lipidema.

But I didn't know it at the time. So it's interesting how you get drawn to things and then find out, oh, this is what you have. So I started out in my husband's pharmacy selling skincare and loved it so much I went to school and became a beauty therapist.

And then when I was there, I did a short course on lymphatic. Somebody came, I was from South Africa. And over the years, when I moved to America, I found myself getting drawn to all the conferences on lymphedema.

And so I became trained with three schools actually, and became very involved with that at the same time as doing my clinical aromatherapy. But when I was in Austria, certifying as a lymphedema therapist is when my instructor, my teacher, who's now 95, Hildegard Wittlinger, because that was in 1992. And she said, you have lipidema.

And it was like the doors opened of all the struggles that I'd had my life up until then. I want to understand the symptoms of lipidema, just in case anybody listening might have some of those similar issues, but can you first connect the dots between the lymphatic system generally and aging and how this impacts healthy aging or maybe even not so healthy aging?

The lymphatic system we say is your detoxification, it's your waste clearance. And I explained to people, it's like, we take the garbage out every Monday morning.

The garbage collectors come, they take out the garbage. During the week, there's more garbage piling up. Now imagine this is your body and imagine if the garbage collectors were your lymphatic system and imagine if they didn't come the following week and two weeks and three weeks and four weeks and all of this waste would be collecting in the street.

So now you can't get waste out of the street, but you cannot get anything into the house because it's blocked. So your lymphatic system is crucial for helping to drain toxic wastes from the connective tissue, including from the brain.

Yeah, this lymphatic rinsing that happens at night during deep sleep, this is a big component. Maybe we'll come back to that, you know, because maybe not everybody's heard of the lymphatic system, but there are these types of lymphatic massage.

I want you to describe that. But also, I feel like often people will say, oh, I know someone whose lymph nodes were removed because they had cancer. And now they're at higher risk for cellulitis, and they maybe have swelling they can't get if there were lymph nodes in their groin that were removed.

They get more swelling in their legs. They're at more risk for infection. Or maybe if it was in their armpits and the axilla, they have issues in their hands or in their arms.

So I just want to make sure that everybody's kind of thinking about the lymphatic system and things they know about it. Are there other ways that you kind of describe lymph nodes, the lymphatic system?

How are people, like, how do we want to think about this? How is it different from the circulatory system or the blood vessels, say? Yes. So the lymphatic system runs parallel with your bloodstream.

In my office, I have a picture that I show all my patients that runs parallel with the bloodstream. And it's just below the surface of the skin. There are initial lymph vessels in the skin, and those go into deeper vessels.

All the waste that are collected from this interstitial fluid go into these vessels, and we now call it lymph. It's a very light, clear liquid that runs along these lymphatic vessels.

It's a one-way. It goes from the tissue directly to the bloodstream. Actually, it enters the bloodstream right here above the clavicle. There's an entire pathway that it goes in and then goes into the bloodstream and to the heart and then it is eliminated via the kidneys.

It's this fluid that is running throughout your system. It's actually connected with the fascia, which I'm busy actually right now doing a talk that I'm going to be doing in three weeks time at the fascia resource.

And I'm connecting the fascia and the lymphatic system, but it's so important. It's also important for your immune system. So you mentioned if lymph nodes have been removed and then they get stagnant and people can get lymphedema.

Then it is very important because now the nutrients are not getting to your cells properly and it's very easy to get an infection, which we call erysipelas or cellulitis.

So lymph system is intricately connected with your immune system. It is part of your immune system. The other parts are you have lymphoid tissue, you have the spleen, of course you have all the lymph nodes all over.

A system that's not spoken about enough and it's something that I've been, I work on every day and have been studying this in depth for the last 35 years.

It's incredible to have an expert like you share because I couldn't agree more. I feel like we don't talk about the importance of the lymphatic system enough.

And a lot of people, maybe they don't have this extreme of having had lymph nodes removed or having lipidema or condition that affects us. But there are common signs that the lymphatic system may be in need of support.

What do you typically hear from patients who are struggling there? Well, I just got a phone call this morning from a new patient who's going to be coming in.

She said, I twisted my ankle. I was running and I twisted my ankle and I continued running. The next day it was a little bit sore. Next day it got worse.

Then it was a little bit swollen. Then I stopped running. Anyway, it's a long story. Eight weeks later, MRI, venous Doppler, X-ray. She even went for arterial, everything.

They didn't know what to do with her, so she was referred to me. I've just spoken to her on the phone and I'll be seeing her, but I think that is primary lymphedema where the lymphatic system, there's something wrong.

It's not functioning as it should be. sprained ankle usually can trigger this. And especially that she's ruled out all these other things, that's probably what it is.

So I'll be working with her with manual lymph drainage and compression. That's one thing that just happened today, but typically people will come in, they might have swollen glands over here in their neck.

So they could have had recurring sore throats. They could be not sleeping really well. Sometimes they bloated in their stomach. It can be many things.

Other times it's just unexplained swelling. So what I love to do with all my years of clinical experience, I like to be like a detective and see like you guys do.

What's going on? What is the family history? How are you doing? What are you eating? How are you sleeping? And then put the whole thing together and then I work out a program for them, which always includes manual lymph drainage to work on this very precious system.

Can you describe what a manual lymph drainage session in your office would look like? Absolutely. So it's very relaxing. Some people are very afraid because they might have had deep work done at a chiropractor's office, but this is very gentle.

We first open up this area here above the clavicle because the entire lymph system drains to here. the head drains to here, the arms, there's a whole pathway.

So I always start off there, then I'll do some deep breathing. Because when you do deep breathing, not only are you calming your nervous system and your vagus nerve, but you're helping the, over here, we have the cisterna, the kidney and the gut.

That is where it's a plexus where all the lymphatics from the internal organs and the legs will drain to. By deep breathing, we're pushing down the diaphragm and we're helping to pump lymph.

We start off with breathing and then they're very relaxed. Then I will do, it's a very light, rhythmical pumping movement. It's not just light as in a feather, there's a pumping movement until we're moving the fluids.

If a person has had breast cancer, as you mentioned, and lymph nodes removed and there's swelling, we will redirect the fluids to the other side, to the contralateral side or down to the groin area to move the fluids away.

It's so calming and it boosts the immune system. It helps to remove wastes and edema. It actually calms the nervous system. So it calms sympathetic activity and brings up parasympathetic activity, which we need.

And actually one of the opening movements that we do on the neck is right at the vagus nerve. So immediately somebody's very, very relaxed. So that's typical.

And then we'll do the whole body or we'll do a particular area depending on what's going on with that client. And a lot of times I will do the whole body and we'll do a general detoxification.

And then I love to blend essential oils and incorporate that. And I'll make oils specifically for the person on my table what they are needing at that time.

It sounds highly personalized and also amazing. Where do I sign up? I'm curious about self-care practices for folks who are listening and either not able to watch or who are maybe not in San Diego and can't take advantage of the in-person services.

One, how do we find people? Like, is there a catalog of people who are trained to do this? And two, are there things that people can do at home, like dry skin brushing or movement or hydration?

Or what do you recommend in terms of lymph support without a provider's support? Dry brushing is fantastic, but we go in the direction of lymph flow. So in the arm, we would go up here and we would go underneath the arm.

The leg, we would go up to the groin. The tummy, we go in the direction of the colon, which is up around and down the left side. And then we brush up here.

So dry brushing is fantastic. And I can supply a chart, but there's lots online of people showing how to do proper dry brushing with the lymphatic system.

There's one that I'm just going to turn everybody onto. The one that I refer patients to is called Green Smoothie Girl. She has a great video of doing this.

She's in a bikini in front of the fireplace. And because she's in a bikini, you can really see, I think, what she's doing and the direction she's going.

And you would typically want to do this naked, right? I typically recommend people do it right before they get in the shower. That's correct. Yeah, that is correct.

You also can use essential oils. I studied with spiritual phytoessencing with Dr. Bruce Bukowski, and he has a system called Vital Qi. where you actually, we put on about 10 different essential oils as a blend and then do your dry brushing.

So typically, we do not put essential oils on neat. We always dilute them in a carry oil or like coconut oil. But there are many ways to do the dry brushing and I recommend doing deep breathing first.

and opening up this area, the collarbone, and then doing the dry brushing. So that's one thing. I love whole body vibration. It really helps with the lymphatics.

Also, the studies are coming out now for bone health, which we need as we get older. Not you, but me. So that's really good. I do love the trampoline, the little mini trampoline, and get a good one with good thongs in them, strings in them.

And that can be really good for the lymphatic system as well. So, and what else? Breathing, deep breathing. Oh my goodness, absolutely. Are there particular types of deep breathing?

You know, there's the triangle breath and the square breath and the, you know, the holding at the top versus holding at the bottom, breathing through your nose, breathing through your mouth.

Is there a particular way to help the lymphatics and to really move the diaphragm? Because you mentioned there's a lot of lymphatic tissue in the gut, so pushing the diaphragm down is our goal there.

Of course, we want the parasympathetic benefit, but how do you guide people? So I studied with Dr. Bernard Jensen in the 80s. He was my hero. He was amazing.

And so he taught us something that I've always done and it turns out it's really good for the lymph system. So as you're marching and you're breathing in, You breathe in for four, you hold for five, and you breathe out for six.

So that's really good. And then you can either move your hands or move your tummy. I like to do diaphragmatic breathing for the lymphatics. So breathe in, push your tummy out, breathe out.

The balloon goes down. So those are good. Of course, there's the box breathing with 444. There's so many breathing. But diaphragmatic breathing is what we want to concentrate on for the lymphatic system.

And when you're walking is a perfect time to do all that. Great. Oh, great. And getting the movement. Now, how much of a role does hydration play? How much water we drink?

Does that play a role in our lymphatics? Well, it does. It also plays a role in the fascia. And the fascia is this interconnected network all over the body that covers every nerve ending, every muscle, every organ, and every lymphatic.

And it turns out that when the fascia is dry and tight, the lymphatics don't flow properly. So that's why I started studying the fascia several years ago, because I realized that this has such a role with the lymphatics.

So then you can do foam rolling and a massage gun, a gua sha, all these things to help the fascia to get unrestricted, which then will help the lymph to flow.

Everything in our body is so connected. That's what's so exciting. Yeah, fascia. I usually tell patients, if you've ever cut a piece of meat or a fish and you see there's this thin white layer that surrounds muscle, all animals have that.

Everybody with muscle has that, and that's the fascia. So we have that between our muscles. connecting our muscles to our tendons and our bones. And it can also be very involved in scar tissue buildup.

And you can kind of tug on the fascia from different directions depending on injuries. And this can throw things off beyond just where we had the injury, right?

This might be happening in our shoulder, but we actually feel it in our knee or our foot. So, these connections are really excited. I'm delighted and here that you are connecting these dots.

I mean, you have been a lifelong learner and you are always sort of upgrading and iterating so that you can better serve patients and it's very inspiring.

I'm curious, you work with a lot of women in particular and I'm curious about sort of like the conditions that uniquely affect women, especially as they go through perimenopause and menopause and things shift with fluid retention and inflammation and how does the lymphatic system change?

Can we support it in particular ways as we're going through these hormonal changes? I want to just say one more thing about the fascia because it's so exciting.

New study that was 2025 They found lymphatics in the superficial fascia, cholestecho. So I'll be seeing all these guys at the fascia conference in three weeks in New Orleans.

That is the most exciting thing. So these lymphatics are everywhere and my talk will be connecting everything. How exciting. Yeah. And because the superficial fascia, we used to think it didn't do anything, but turns out that there are more nerve endings in there than anywhere.

There's 250 million nerve receptors in the fascia. and 100 in the skin. So it's highly innovated. I know. It's so exciting. So in terms of women, as they're going through menopause, and I have many, many patients right now that I'm working with who have lipidema and are actually going into menopause and lipidema is driven by estrogen, and then what do they do?

Do they take hormone replacement? Do they take supplements? What do they do and how will it impact them? We know that there's bloating, lack of sleep, pressure.

All of these, I can help women or you can be helped with aromatherapy oils to help with the depression and the sleep. Again, deep breathing, dry brushing, lymphatic drainage to help calm everything, and essential oils are just fantastic.

Then the manual lymph drainage, and I can give you a website where people can look up good therapists. The manual lymph drainage will help with all of that because it helps with the bloating.

It helps with the swelling that comes during these times. And I particularly love aromatherapy for that time. And of course it goes without saying, your diet has to be good.

You have to be cutting out the sugar, the white carbs. So aromatherapy is a deep passion of yours. Can you describe how you use it? And if somebody needs to work with a provider to really understand that, or is there a way to kind of pick them off the shelf or look for different blends?

How do you help people navigate getting the benefits of aromatherapy? Well, there are many people selling oils who are not aromatherapists and don't know what they're doing.

I am a clinical aromatherapist, and there are many people like me. I belong to the Aromatherapy International Association. That's the AIA, and I'm on the research committee for that.

And NOHA, which is the National Aromatherapy Holistic, so there are providers listed on those. You want to go to somebody who is well-trained and who understands.

So that's one thing. You know, can you go into the store and pick different things based on the way that they smell or go online and kind of get a sense of, oh, this is going to help with memory or that's going to help with mood?

Or is it more individualized and more really do you recommend working with a provider before you go in and do that? So if you're just wanting just general aromatherapy, sure you can go into the store.

And I taught for 25 years, hopefully I'll start up again, but I would teach my students, now you're smelling really good oils. I want you to go everywhere, go into the stores and identify which are not good oils.

For example, lavender, we get high altitude lavender, which is very, very high in linalal, which is much more calming. You have spike lavender, which has camphor in it, which you would not use on a child or an elderly person, and you would not use it for sleep.

So if you're wanting to really do proper therapeutic work, I do recommend seeing a practitioner who has a deep understanding of essential oils and consultation skills.

But if you're just wanting to relax, yes, you can get a relaxing blend. Did that answer that properly? Yeah, you know, when I was in school and we were learning herbalism and about aromatherapy and the benefits, these are phenomenal tools.

And I think throughout my career, I've been a little concerned with how many people are selling these through MLM, through multi-level marketing, because part of what we learned was that they're volatile, so they're highly flammable.

And they're highly potent. So something like putting peppermint oil into, say, a bathtub can cause numbness, can cause neurotoxicity. And so they're powerful tools.

And I would agree that you want to work with a well-trained provider. And then often what you're getting, if they're not powerful, if they're not dangerous, then you're probably getting a very overpriced diluted product.

And you should just spend the money going to see a good quality provider who's going to get you those top quality herbs and essential oils. So I think we're in agreement there.

and also know what to avoid for safety. I'm on the research committee for the AIA and we are just revising our safety standards for our members and for the public.

And it's extensive. We went into so much detail because of everything going out. One of my colleagues has a website showing pictures of toxicity and burns that people have done through improper use.

So use properly, they're beautiful, they're wonderful, but they are very powerful. So then moving on to your personal experience, do you mind telling everyone how old you are?

You don't have to. I'm very proud. I just had a birthday, summer solstice, very powerful day, and I just turned 76. 76 years young, moving to 80 and 90, and my goal is to live to be, not my goal, I'm going to live to be 100. I told you that already.

I am very much aligned with that because we need you around. You are, again, like this bright shining example of what it means to age well. You are 76 years young and have more energy and stamina than most people my own age in my early 40s.

I am just in awe of how you speak at conferences internationally. I mean, you are constantly preparing for a talk. You work all day. You run a clinic.

How do you do it all? The rest of us can't keep up with you. Where do you get all of your energy and vitality from, and how do you sustain it? Well, you know, I think that a lot of it is passion.

I do run my life with passion and purpose. I love, love, love what I'm doing. And I think that I've always been able to be in the moment of what's happening.

Even if there's 500 things going on, oh my, I can just stay in that moment, compartmentalize and just be there. And then as we start learning, you know, how to be, to be mindful, to be quiet, to be in the moment, that is very important to do as well.

So I so love what I'm doing. And I had told you because I'm a patient of Dr. Sanderson, very proud. that my sleep cycle, I'm now concentrating on my sleep.

because I used to tell you that I'm up till two, three, four in the morning, and you'd say, no. I would wag you my finger. So I finally decided, well, I'm gonna live to be 100. I need to get heart rate variability up.

The best way is to sleep. So deep breathing before I go to sleep, calming down. I could go on. Last night, I stopped at midnight because I'm preparing my talk.

I could have gone on till two, three in the morning because I'm so engrossed I think when you have a passion, when you find something that you really love that excites you, you're not working.

And then you have a passion and I have a beautiful family. I have wonderful children and in-laws, son-in-law and my daughter-in-law and my granddaughter I have.

So that sustains me and fills me and I spend a lot of time with them as well and lifelong friends and exercise. You asked me how I sustain every day I exercise, but I'm not hysterical.

We walk every single day and then four times a week I go on the elliptical and two days a week I do pilates. That's non-negotiable. Those times are there unless I'm out of town.

So I think all together and then truly aromatherapy. It just helps. There's an oil for everything and there's a blend for everything. I love it. And what about manual lymphatic therapy?

Do you receive? I don't receive as often as I should because I'm so busy and the other girl who works with me in the office who does, and I've got two of them, actually they're also so booked, but I do do dry brushing.

I do some form of lymph massage, especially when I travel, I always wear compression. And when I get to my destination, I do self massage always because lipidema is a connective tissue disease.

And one of the problems is inflammation and swelling. I do work very hard at keeping my gut microbiome in good shape, which is also going to help the brain, and help with that inflammation.

That's a key goal, to keep that inflammation at bay. As you know, that inflammation can extend to the brain, and then there's neuroinflammation, so it works for everything.

And then the brain, if you're sleeping enough and that glial lymphatic system and the meningeal lymphatics are draining and detoxifying at night, that's also going to keep your brain active and keep you excited to do everything.

So sometimes I massage my head before I go to sleep. Nice. So you mentioned having lipidema. This is part of your personal health journey. Lipid, as in fat, L-I-P-I-D, lipidema, is different from lymphedema, L-Y-M-P-H.

So tell us how do these connect and what were those symptoms that you realized you had that aha moment, this is lipedema. So kind of break those down for us, tell us the differences and how someone might know if this was affecting them.

So when a person, and when this happened to me, nobody knew what it was and still today, my patients go, they don't know they told they fat. They need to exercise more.

They need to stop eating. I cry with my patients sometimes when I hear what is told to them. And finally, after 10 years, 20 and 30 years, they've discovered actually thanks a lot to social media.

So what it is is an inability to lose weight in spite of doing everything. Often the top part of the body will be smaller than the bottom and there can be bulges.

There can even be a cuff on the arms or a cuff on the leg. The feet are not involved. This is lipidema and there is pain. Sometimes the pain is just upon palpation when somebody presses you or the dog jumps on your legs in the bed, or it can be pain all over.

In later stages, there is a lot of pain and there can be nodules. So it's very different from lymphedema because it's bilateral, it's both sides, and it doesn't affect the hands and the feet.

So it's called a loose connective tissue disease. I would imagine with the pain, many people are misdiagnosed with, say, fibromyalgia or there are other explanations.

Like you said, it's lifestyle and there's sort of some shame associated with it because people are told, oh, it's because you're not eating right or exercising enough when in fact that's not the case at all.

Although sometimes it's true because you can have lepidema with obesity. Stage one, lipidema, it's a progressive disease, but because of everything that I've done, it did not progress.

So it's a progressive disease and there can be lipidema with obesity. So I don't have that obesity component, I just have the lipidema. So once the lip obesity fat can be lost, through different measures, that's another whole story, that can happen and then the lipidema is there.

But many of them really are on like 600, 700 calories a day and they don't know what to do and the doctors shame them. I had a young woman who's from Chicago who came to see me.

She was on a work schedule here and came to see me because she'd been referred to me. And she just was crying and she said, I just, I feel so relieved because for the first time in my 35 years, I know it's not my fault.

How heartbreaking. So are there tests that someone might ask their doctor for to understand if this might be affecting them? So right now there are no tests.

There are some doctors who are now working with ultrasound. And it's very interesting. You can see my colleague, Emily Eicher, she calls it dancing fascia.

So when you look in the ultrasound, it kind of goes like this. And you can see the nodules. It's very interesting. And the lymphedema looks very different.

But there really are no tests because the other tests don't really show it. So we look at inflammatory markers, we look at homocysteine, we look at CRP, see reactive proteins, sometimes sediment rate.

So we look at those markers to see, and then I have a checklist of symptoms. Do you bruise easily? Do you have flat feet? Do you pronate? Go through this whole thing.

Are you hypermobile? Have you had knee surgery? Are your knees sore? Have you constantly been moving joints out of, so we've put that all together. And then do you have anyone in your family who has heavy legs?

Oh, interesting. Yes. Fascinating. So there are other types of connective tissue disorders as well, these hypermobility syndromes. How is this one different through this questionnaire, through this kind of clinical diagnostic process?

Can you tell if they have something else going on? So LSDANS loss is another connective tissue, the hypermorbidity LSDANS loss. So I am not a doctor, so I don't diagnose, even though I know a lot more than most of the doctors around with that.

So I have people that I refer to, but we go through the checklist, and then I'll say, you have met all these criteria. This is what you're feeling. I want you to read this.

And then I'll refer them to certain practitioners. We don't have a lot of them, but there really are. And then the Alice Dan's loss, you know, there's the biting test where you can test to see for hypermobility and there's a whole criteria for that.

But many, most of the lipidema patients have Alice Dan's loss. In addition. Yes. And then there's Durkheim's disease, which is another connective tissue disease.

I'm very involved. We have a panel coming up next week. There, the pain is just excruciating and they often have lipidema as well. So it's pretty complex, but we can help people.

That's the tool. There are tools to do that they can do at home, things that they can do. And sometimes there's surgery. And then I will help prepare people for surgery and then we help them after the surgery.

Like you, Dr. Sanderson, I believe in an integrative approach first. You do everything, anti-inflammatory, working with your diet, doing all the conservative measures, and then if you need surgery, you go ahead, but you've got a much healthier system going in for the surgeries.

Trying to teach all the doctors that as well. and it's an uphill battle some days. You've worked with clients at all stage of life. You mentioned a 35-year-old recently coming from Chicago, and I know you've had this decades-long career, so you've seen people age physically, emotionally, spiritually.

What are the differences in the people who are aging well versus those who aren't? Like, do you have any patients who inspire you in how you are aging?

I love all your questions. That's just so wonderful. Well, really the sad thing is that I see people coming in who's just five years younger than I am or maybe two years older and they look and feel 15 years older and it's just hard, hard to imagine.

So yeah, I guess I'm the inspiration for, you know, a lot of them. And I had somebody yesterday say, well, thank you. I'm so motivated now. I feel so motivated.

I know I can do this. So I think, yeah, we work off of each other. Exercise, I mean, the crucial thing is that we don't move everything, just inflammation is worse, the fascia tightens up, your brain doesn't work, so that to me is just key.

The exercise, the good nutrition, and then being outside and being in the sunlight, all of the things that you teach your patients and hope that everybody would be doing, that really contributes to a happy, healthy, long life.

And I'm on no medications at all. So if it doesn't have to be that way, we don't have to. Right. Yeah. There's a choice. There's a lot of choice in how we age.

What does aging well mean to you personally? You're going to live to be 100. Describe a day in the life of Linda-Ann Kahn who is 100 years old. But you know what?

It's funny. I just can't believe this because when I tell, this is the crazy thing. I tell people I'm going to live to be 100 and they all say, yeah, we know that.

Yeah. What a nerve I've got. But my mother lived to be almost 100. And she was just an inspiration. She passed away just over a year ago. So she exercised until she was about 88. And then it was a bit too far walking to the exercise class from her car.

And then when she turned 90, there was COVID, you know, 95 maybe. But my goal is that I'm going to be vibrant and vital. I saw somebody walking today and I was looking at this man and he was all bent over and his face was so beautiful.

And he was bent over and he had a walker. And I thought, you are somebody's father. You are somebody's grandfather. You are somebody really important in the world before.

And I just decided we need to have even more respect for older people. And so my vision going forward is to still have the same vitality and vibrance, but accept some of the changes because it's not possible for everybody to be vibrant and vital.

Although Bernard Jensen, I keep him up, he would stand up and he'd go like this. I here feel wonderful. How do you all feel?" And we'd all go, wonderful.

And he'd say, louder, louder. So he was the person that I really looked up to to aspire. I think he was 94 when he passed away. I'm not sure exactly, but he did have prostate cancer that eventually got him.

That's rough. If people were to do just one thing, one piece of advice, for people who want to feel more vibrant, who want to feel more passion as they age, feel more alive, what would you tell them to do?

Find something that you love to do. If you are retired, find something you love because don't just retire and do nothing. If you are not retired and you don't love what you're doing and you can't change it, find another passion, a goal, a meaning, to have meaning in your life, why you are here, why are we on this earth?

We're here to serve and help other people. So that would be after the exercise and the diet, but purpose and passion And my mother, my mother used to read, she read the economist, the entire economist every week, including the week before she died.

She called up all of her friends, all of the neighbors, everybody those three days before she died. I heard her on the phone and text message, remind you, to thank them for everything.

And each one was a different message and to say goodbye because she's dying. Oh, so she knew. Yeah. Yeah. She was totally connected. She had this huge community.

So I think that's another big thing is to don't be isolated. You know, if you don't have a big family or you don't get on with your family, create a community.

You know, and thank you for mentioning that because I think a theme in what you're describing, both creating meaning and purpose and community, these things are hard.

They take effort, right? And so I think for some people, it's almost easier to say, no, I'm just going to tap out. I'm not going to be involved with my family or I'm not going to volunteer.

I'm not going to do this because it requires effort. But do you think that maybe it's that effort? It's that follow through? It's getting through the hard things that actually makes it valuable?

How do you balance those things? I mean, here I'm talking to someone who you stay up and are passionate about. I mean, I put together talks for medical conferences and man is work.

And you do this all the time. You love it. You thrive on it. But talk about that balance. Like, when does it work where it becomes so stressful and it prevents you from sleeping versus its meaning and its purpose and its passion?

Where's the line? Well, I guess there is a line. I mean, I have found now that when I'm 76, but I can see eight or nine patients in a day. And I would come home and I wouldn't be tired.

But now the last year or two, I am tired at the end of the day. So now what I'm doing is, and I love cooking, so I'll cook, we'll eat good food, and then I'm not working again after supper to have that balance because otherwise I could tip it out.

But the days of my staying up awake thinking, oh God, I've got to do this, they're gone because I'm so at peace with everything. and it's so organized and no, I don't have that.

How did you get there? How are you at peace with everything? Was it a mindset shift? Was it, or did you just check all the boxes and you got organized and one day you were like, all right, it's done.

Well, I used to wake up at night, oh my gosh, I need to do this. And then I'd get up and take an aromatherapy bath and then make a list and go back to sleep.

I don't have to do that anymore. But my father was my inspiration. He was 87 when he passed away. And when he was dying, he gave a message to everybody.

But to me, he said, Linda Ann, he actually called me Lindala, Linda Ann, just remember, You can do anything. Don't let anybody ever stop you. You carry on the way you are because you know what to do.

I mean, how can you go wrong with that from your father? Wow. That is a powerful message. And do you feel like you got that message from him while you were growing up?

Oh, absolutely. Oh, my dad was full of passion, purpose, doing charity, doing things, playing tennis, doing lots of things. I was blessed. I was very blessed to have amazing parents.

So this was a model for you, but also it was ingrained in you that you have capacity. You can go do what you want to do. And that's it. I always tell you, say, you just got to know what you want.

And then you go out and you do it. That's it. That clarity helps. I'd imagine in your role as a healer, part of that is almost reparenting people who weren't as blessed to have such incredible parents, right, of reminding them, kind of saying what your dad said to you, to the people who show up in your office, reminding them that you can do what you, whatever you want.

It may take some work, but don't let anybody stop you. And to hear those words, to hear that validation and that encouragement is really powerful. Yeah.

I just love what I do because it really is integrative. It's body, mind and spirit. And my medium is manual lymph drainage and aromatherapy. But as you know, it's just being there.

It's being present for somebody. It's holding space for them. It's holding, being calm. Being in your presence just makes them feel calm and comforted and heard and even loved.

Yeah. And that's all we need. Humans do. Yeah, community and love and nurturing. It's incredible. What a gift you provide. And then thinking of the lymph system, I mean, that's the flow, right?

It's the ebb and flow in your body. And that's what we want and the fashion to keep it flowing. So That's part of everything. And I just can't believe I was just drawn to this lymphatic work, not even knowing what I had, what disease I had.

So Kismet, how amazing. You exude joy. But I ask everyone, what gives you the most joy at this stage of life? And has that shifted as you've gained wisdom and experience?

Yes, it has shifted. It really has. I used to love to travel and cruise and do things. Now I just can smell a rose and I feel so happy. Or sit in, I've got the most beautiful garden with a waterfall and fountains.

I wasn't sitting it in enough because I was just when I wasn't working with clients and I was doing stuff on the computer. So now just being there, being peaceful with my dog next to me, listening to the waterfall.

And again, that's the wisdom, thank God that I've got as I've got older. I'm working at being quiet sometimes and being mindful and being still. And then just being grateful and finding joy.

And that's what I tell my clients every day, do one thing that brings you joy. One thing. What brings you joy day to day? Ah, you know, I don't know. I just, well, when I wake up and there's my husband and we're married 55 years.

And we still love each other very, very much. It's great. I'm happy. I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm grateful. Very, very blessed. Yeah. All right. So now we work hard at everything and nothing comes easily.

Yeah. Well, that's my next question. You've been married for 55 years and you were happily married. You wake up every day blessed to be next to wake up next to your husband.

Not always that way. Yeah. Well, what was the secret to that? How did you? It wasn't always that way. We got divorced after we'd been married 19 years.

We'd been in this country for nine years and immigration was very, very difficult. And then we remarried on our 20th wedding anniversary in Sedona at Red Rock Crossing.

And then we retook our vows again in March of this year in Sedona. Wow. So yeah, we just rekindled, you know, you go through many passages and things are worth working for and then you work at them, but nothing's just wonderful and roses all the time.

I mean, our immigration was very difficult. Yeah. Was there any key work that you did in the relationship? Was there a teacher or a book or a therapy practice or a conversation?

Was there something that helped you turn the corner and make the relationship more joyful? I don't know. I think it's, for me anyway, I think it's just getting to know yourself more and being at peace and acceptance.

I actually said that when we re-did our vows, but just acceptance. You know, none of us are perfect and it's okay. I have books everywhere. I drive my husband crazy.

He leaves the doors open. It doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It's just acceptance. And respect, right? Yes. Respect, trust, respect, acceptance.

I love it. I love it. What insights. What powerful, inspiring insights. Linda-Ann, what else do you want to share with our listeners? I want to make sure that they know how to find you if they want to either schedule in your clinic or they want to know about your speaking tour, where you're going to be speaking next.

I want to make sure that people can find out more about you personally and professionally. So definitely that. But also, is there any other tidbit of wisdom you have so much to share?

And I want to make sure that we cover all of the highlights. Well, I know that you work with cognitive decline. And the reason that I came to you initially was because I'm allowed to be 100, and I didn't want to have cognitive decline.

It is such a luxury to work on prevention, especially with someone as vital as you are. Right. So I just wanted to remind everybody that the brain has a lymphatic system too.

That's what we've been talking about, the glial lymphatic system, the meningeal lymphatic system. Poor lymphatic clearance from the brain is like garbage in the brain.

Everything, the good sleep, being calm, good food, nourishing your food, not to forget that because that's all tied in with cognitive decline. Even for some Lyme disease, Dirk comes, a lot of the patients that I work with and I know you work with Lyme, there's brain dysfunction.

you know, and brain fog. So all of that becomes important. So please remember that and sleep and getting that deep sleep and that REM sleep is so important.

And I'm so glad that I finally started concentrating on that. Me too. Me too. Well, thank you for that reminder also. Good sleep is crucial to brain health.

And the reason, one of the big reasons why, not the only reason why, but one of the biggest reasons why is because of that glymphatic system. It's because of the drainage of toxins from the brain at night when we're in that deep sleep.

So thank you so much for highlighting that again. If you learn nothing else from me as a brain doc, it's how important good, high quality sleep is. So thank you, thank you, thank you for validating me on that, reminding everyone how important that is.

Now, tell us where we can learn more about you. So on my Instagram page, it's at lundaanncon.com. And then I have it's Beauty Clinique Aromatherapy Day Spa, and it's beauty and it's Clinique.

It's K-L-I-N-I-E-K, beautyclinique.com is what it is. It's Beauty Clinique Aromatherapy Day Spa. It's the Afrikaans spelling of the word clinic because I'm from South Africa.

And then I also have lymphatictherapy services.com. I'm on LinkedIn. I think my LinkedIn page is actually Beauty Clinique, but I did give you that link over there, but it's really all about me.

There's a lot on that over there. Great. And it's LindaAnneCon, L-I-N-D-A-A-N-N-E-K-A-H-N. So, at LindaAnneCon on Instagram seems like a good place to start.

And then also, I know from experience, if you put LindaAnneCon into Google and even add lymphatic to it, you will get lots of information and can go down the rabbit hole on lipidema, lymphedema, and all of the supportive therapies involved with manual and lymphatic drainage and other things, aromatherapy in particular.

So very exciting stuff. I could not thank you enough for sharing your enthusiasm, your joy, your passion, and all of the wisdom and experience that you have shared with us today.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning into Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health.

Each day is a new opportunity to make choices, but empower your wellbeing. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website, www.doctortalks.com.

Stay connected, stay healthy, and join us next time on Doctor Talks. Real Talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.

Linda-Anne Kahn, CLT-LANA, NCBTMB

Lymph, Life, and Longevity: Aging Gracefully with Linda-Anne Kahn