– Welcome to another episode of reversing inflammaging, summit body and mind longevity medicine. I'm very pleased to have Lori Shemek with us. Dr. Shemek is a world renowned expert in inflammation and a best selling author, Lori, it's a pleasure to have you here, welcome. – Thank you Stephen, it is such a pleasure to be here. It really is an honor.

So anything we can do to help spread awareness, you know, I'm all for it. – That's that is certainly the key. Can we begin by telling, telling our audience how you got interested and inspired to work in this area? – Well, it's a kind of a circuitous path, but I originally, well way back a long time ago my mother had just constant stream of different health conditions and uh and I recognized early on that she was making poor health choices.

She would smoke a pack and a half a day. She was bordering on obesity, which ran on her side of the family and um she was under enormous stress. She was a single mother of three young Children and with you know, no outside support at all. And she also had a really poor diet of refined foods etcetera, you know, sugar, coffee cake in the morning, sugar in her coffee, that kind of thing. Right?

And then um so on top of that she was, you know, suffering from health conditions one after the other and it was really terrible for, I was the oldest, I have two younger brothers. And so all of her duties went to me to make sure that they were fed and nurtured as much as I could do that at my age.

And um and and sadly she died at the very young age of 36 leaving behind three young Children. And uh it was just a really sad situation but I realized I needed to be in the helping helping profession of some sort.

So when I graduated high school I went to college and universe and became got my doctor eventually in psychology. And then I realized my I was dealing with at risk families for family outreach outreach.

And these I realized these families, their mindset, change our energy level, change their motivation all with food, right? I would write out their grocery lists for them and um the family members changed people became better.

And um so anyway I became vice president of that organization, I quit and with the intention of creating my own company called Health Works. And so I wanted to use my background in psychology and became a nutritionist. And so that's why I created my own company And here I am today really just helping others as much as I can.

– That's great and I appreciate the history that you just gave us because we're learning more and more in fact of the influence on the our diets on our psychology.

So uh those two really tie in together, can you, Lori, can you share with us their different perspectives on aging and longevity. Can you tell us your view of longevity longevity and why we age?

– I do. I can and we know there's the hallmarks of aging, right? We have that. And I believe in most of those and I think however they all mesh together in some way they work off each other, but essentially, inflammation is at the root of most everything that goes on in our bodies. Oxidation inflammation.

And uh so my belief is that if we can keep inflammation as low as possible. And uh, you know, because when you keep it as low as possible, you still have some that can protect you.

Right? And um and if we we keep that excess inflammation away, then I think we're pretty good in terms of longevity. – Mhm. So you refer to two different types of inflammation. Can you explain the difference in what you're referring to? – Sure. So there's two types.

One is called acute inflammation and it's not so cute because it hurts, it's painful, it stings, it swells, it's red, it's, you know, everything we don't want to feel. And uh interestingly enough, this is very healthy inflammation, right? We need this form of inflammation.

And without it, we wouldn't be alive. We'd just be sitting ducks really. And so um that is acute inflammation. So if you take um an example would be taking a cut on your finger. If you cut your finger, an enormous amount of inflammatory molecules are released and soldiers come to the site to repair the wound?

They repair the wound. The wound heals the soldiers go away. The inflammation goes away and all is well. Right. And then, uh, so the next type of inflammation we have, – That's that's healthy.

We want that to occur. – Yes, we absolutely do. And we want we want to be healed and that's what acute inflammation essentially does. And so we have the next form is silent or chronic inflammation and this silent inflammation, its very name suggests danger.

Right? It's because we don't know it's there, but it is there and it's there 24/7, unbeknownst to us until symptoms occur. But it's the silent inflammation is like having a sore on the inside of your body that never heals. It is the core cause of most underlying illnesses disease, faster aging and weight gain. And now we know even mental well being right, it's uh, primarily causing depression, etcetera, that we now know. And so it is this type of inflammation that as I said, produces molecules inflammatory molecules 24/7 and um, the types of diseases were up against with this is we're vulnerable to heart disease, cancer. Alzheimer's obesity, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and the list goes on. So, um, what what we want to do is we want to keep that inflammation as low as possible as I suggested earlier, because this is going to prevent uh, inflammation essentially.

You know, when you, when you in a nutshell, when you keep that inflammation low that silent inflammation away, then I think you are pretty much good to go in terms of better health. – And what would you say are the major factors that drive that second type of inflammation. – The major factors we have found our are really lifestyle choices, which is good news because that means that we have control over you know, whether we can exacerbate it or not and also to you know, we have a genetic predisposition to certain diseases which obviously come with the inflammation. But primarily we're looking at lifestyle choices such as um the types of foods we eat, specific foods.

I can go into the types of foods we the lack of exercise that we get if we're sedentary, um even negative thoughts. If we think predominantly negatively we are creating inflammation in our bodies And you know, can you just explain how that explain that connection between negative thoughts? – Yes and inflammation.

– Yeah, it's uh so what happens is when we have a negative thought, we release chemicals and we have receptor sites on ourselves for these chemicals and over time if we continue, it's like a lock and key if over time we continue to have these negative thoughts then um these inflammatory molecules are released and so there we go with inflammation, low grade inflammation. – So the negative thoughts are connected, I would say connected to our stress response and then our stress response would trigger the inflammation. How do you see that?

– Yeah, I agree with that completely. You think about, you know, the chemicals that are released when we do have negative thoughts. You know, the the cortisol for example, um or adrenaline even can have a negative health effect. Even though they're meant to be helpful that over time chronically can have a negative effect and uh really create this inflammation in the body. – So which particular types of food um produced this inflammatory response? – Well, there are foods that are really awful for people if they don't even know it. You know, they're um foods like industrial uh cooking oils.

A lot of people refer to them as seed oils, which I think sounds rather benign. I think processed industrial oils is a better choice. But these oils are refined just like sugar is just as bad.

And the combination of the two uh is what you for find in most products, right? And it's a double whammy to your health. And when you for example, eat sugar, you're causing processes like ages, advanced location and products or location itself.

The browning effect which affects all tissues in your body. And it changes the nature of the function and the structure of the tissue, which means, you know, illness and disease for you.

Not just that's on the inside happening, but on the outside, you're gonna see wrinkles and sagging skin. And so that's glorification in a nutshell. But yeah, there are there are many effects with these foods, for example, the omega six and excess of omega six, which these oils such as soy, canola corn, vegetable oil for example. Um There are no vegetables, vegetable oil. They had to absolutely make that one healthy sounding. Um but when you ingest these oils, they are toxic ingredient. They are toxic to the body to the cells.

And so when you think about creating good health, what you want to do is really look at everything you put into your body from a cellular perspective.

So these oils that I just spoke about uh as well change the uh function of the cell and the membrane, the outside and the inner membrane of the cells and the mitochondria in the cells. And so what happens is is we have a stiffening if you will, of the membrane of the cell and nutrients and uh things that need to go in and out of the cell, can't do it as easy or at all because of these oils. And that means you're going to be nutrient deficient over time and you're creating uh an oxidized cell inflammation.

And um the list goes on and on. But uh suffice it to say by removing these industrial oils from your diet, you're doing, I would say even more important work for your health than simply removing sugar.

– So I'm hearing that it affects the health of every cell in our body, what you're referring to? – Yes it does. I'm sorry, I was gonna say, and they found that soy oil in fact actually actually harms the brain. So another reason not to have it.

– Okay, and and you mentioned omega six, what in seed oils, what other foods that we eat? Do we find that in that maybe we should be avoiding as well? – So all junk foods, you know, people know what those are. Um You know, and also I want to add that when you heat these oils, these cooking oils up they in canola oil.

For one, people think it has a health halo. Um it's one of the worst, it's the most inflammatory in fact, um when you heat them, it's a double whammy in terms of the toxins the Aldo hides that are produced.

Um but you find them in processed junk foods, you find them in um things like everyday really, you have to look not just for sugar anymore, but you have to look for these oils on the ingredient label.

So they're like um you know, salad dressings, bread, um crackers, anything that's processed by a food manufacturer, pretty much you can guarantee has these types of oils in it and sugar too. So even if it's a savory, so you know, this is terrible, but even chicken broth has sugar in it that you buy the box, chicken broth, so you have to be really careful about, you know what you buy and um what it's doing to you from a cellular perspective and how it's it's tamping down and preventing your longevity over time. – And what's your opinion about greens and inflammation? – Well greens um you know it's interesting because I grew up, I'm a good example that the human body can repair itself but I grew up yeah that's probably yeah but you know I grew up on sugar and grains and these you know it was before these oils really came to be widely used. But still you know, grains we now know are exceptionally inflammatory for a lot of people and they spike your blood glucose and that's one thing we do not want. Some people are just fine genetically it shows that there's a a predisposition to inflammation with these grains. But I believe that most people have issues with them not to mention that they've been sprayed you know completely saturated with glyphosate for the most part and you know you think about gluten the type of wheat that we're using now is completely different than what maybe you and I grew up on.

Right? – Yeah. So as with a lot of products that we can we can purchase um a lot of these products have been modified to for production, uh increasing production, things like that.

But I'm wondering is there a grain that can be found or purchased that's healthier than others uh whether it's organic whether it's whole grain or should we just avoid all grains? – I think uh that I would rather go with a seed if you will versus a grain. I think a seed like a quinoa is a seed that would be something wild rice would be one.

Um I think those are two examples that would be really beneficial um for people and in their health if they wanted that, if they wanted that in their diet.

But you have to be careful to of the inflame the glucose response that you get from a lot of grains. You know, for example, oatmeal is one people love, I love it, you know, but I won't eat it because I know exactly what it's doing to my body. – And is there a certain low level of this that the body is able to handle sufficiently or any amount creates the negative consequences? – Well, that's an interesting question because I think that the body can handle pretty much in short term what you throw at it.

Right? I think we're designed to heal, were designed to take insults, but it's chronically is the problem. For example, if your insulin sensitive and you have some sugar, you have ice cream or a cupcake or whatever your body knows what to do with that excess sugar. Right?

And the same would be true with grains or anything really. So um like that. So I think, you know, you're, you're fine if it's once in a while and not over not chronic use.

– So what specific types of foods would you say protect against inflammation? You know, people can load up on to help in this fight against inflammation. – That's a good question because that's what we need to know, right? We eliminate the others and we just crowd them out right with these good foods. And those are foods that are low glycemic.

You want to opt for a low glycemic foods, you want to keep that insulin lower. You want to keep that glucose low. You want a slower release of glucose into the bloodstream. And so what will do that will would be um things like anything with fiber will do that. Um Plant fibers are excellent. You want um These plant fibers will feed the healthy gut bacteria, which means a healthier gut for you.

And that means you know, better health for you in fact. But you want foods that like berries and dark chocolate and olives and olive oil, lentils, for example, beings you want pomegranates are excellent for health because they contain there there's they found that they don't raise um they're not a glucose fructose hit and obviously don't raise glucose, but they're packed with your religions which are really beneficial and anti aging and really tamped down on uh the protect the cells from oxidation etcetera. Um and so you want mushrooms.

Even aged cheeses are excellent for health aged cheeses? People are afraid of dairy. But these aged cheeses, like brie and blue cheeses have some compound called spermidine in it and spermidine is found in every cell in our body.

But the problem is as we age, we lose sperm 18 and so um that's why these foods are, you know, variety of foods is good. Um So, you know, all vegetables are good. Cruciferous vegetables are excellent.

They're sulfur based. Um I would say I would put that at the top of the list. Leafy greens would be next. Um but in terms of balancing blood sugar when you eat this way, you're going to balance your blood sugar, you will not cause a spike at all.

And that's what we want to prevent that spike in blood sugar is our goal and also postprandial, which means your blood sugar spiking after you eat. Um you want to keep that down as well. And that's something we could talk about later.

But this helps in that. Yeah. – So you you touched on dairy, What is your perspective on dairy in the diet? – Well, I think dairy is just fine assuming you're not eating the junkie kind of dairy, right, that you're eating um cheeses that are, that have been aged, for example, very good for you but I think it's it's really a personal issue when it comes to dairy. Some people are highly affected by it and sensitive to it and some people are not and I'm one of those that are not.

So um but you know I think overall it's a healthy addition. – We hear about different kinds of diet. The Mediterranean diet, the paleo diet, the keto diet. Um What do you recommend amongst these or your own kind of how you put it all together? – Yeah I I highly recommend the mediterranean diet because it even though it has grains in it. It is the research has shown that a traditional mediterranean diet is excellent for health and when you eat in such a way to uh stop if you will a stress response within the cell then you are going to um you're going to thrive and you're going to stop inflammation and you're gonna stop that inflammation from happening and you're going to keep it a little low so that it can protect the body.

But what I referred to earlier that chronic silent inflammation will not be present probably. – And as we age I know we uh many of important uh biochemicals start to decrease even as early as 25, 30 40. Do you recommend any critical nutrients that we need to add and make sure we include in our diets such as glutathione.

– Yes I absolutely do. I mean glutathione is really important because obviously we lose glutathione but not because we can't produce it but because we're lacking glycerine which ancestry in which helps create Bluetooth ion and why it's critical for people to get google icing and you know in their diet.

So this would be you know I would I would recommend that everybody everybody check with their doctor before taking any supplements because you know medications etcetera can can read it, you can have a reaction with it.

But glycine is exceptional because it's something that we can literally help stop the inflammation process um because of the glutathione effect that it has. And um so we lose glutathione as the age we lose CO Q 10 as we age. Coenzyme Q 10 is critical for mitochondrial speed and efficiency. Co Q 10 is something that we lose markedly after age 40 unfortunately. Um And then if you take it you will feel a natural subtle form of energy that one maybe if you felt tired before is an issue.

Um Another one that's very important for mitochondrial health is P. Q. Q. So P. Q. Q. And CO Q 10 go hand in hand. Um P. Q. Q. Helps actually create more uh mitochondria.

Uh It's it promotes mitophagy. It's very very good for for mitochondrial health. And so and that's a really important topic when it comes to inflame aging and longevity. Right?

So when you look at the core component of what health really is, it's a healthy it's healthy mitochondria. So you look at a little child or young Children who are running around you know with a lot of energy.

Very very active. They have a lot of mitochondria and their healthy mitochondria versus elderly, frail person who is slow moving tired um frail essentially and they have very few mitochondria comparatively and they're not functioning robustly right. Their mitochondria are not healthy.

And so those it's that's what we need to focus on is um mitochondrial health and everything. You know that we talk about co Q 10 P. Q. Q. is very important.

And then uh let's see magnesium. Magnesium is vital for mitochondrial health, cellular health. People that come to me are tired or they have other symptoms generally nine out of 10 they're they are deficient in magnesium and magnesium is an important co factor in uh mitochondrial A. T. P. And A. T. P.

is that energy that I referred to referred to earlier is why we're alive. It's a cell, its cellular energy and why we can actually move. And then the other ones that are really important spermidine is one that we touched on earlier.

That's a supplement you can actually take. It is uh it's been the research has been has shown to be excellent and curcumin is another one. Curcumin has been shown to uh prevent telomere shortening.

It has serious anti oxidizing components to it. It's anti inflammatory um You know it's it's in animal models it's been shown to promote longevity. So you know it's a it's good for your gut health, your brain health. Um If you have arthritis it's fantastic for that curcumin is the active component in turmeric.

So the active compound um and then there's one other supplement that not many people have heard of and it's called anti factor. And it's a patented compound that actually helps rebuild mitochondria and it's a fossil lipid. But it is has been shown to literally get those mitochondria up and running again, especially in people who have had lyme's disease or any other uh issue, mitochondrial issue.

And and then I would say vitamin D. Vitamin K. Two, all of the ones that we all know about. Um just thinking if there's 10 fish oil, how could I forget fish oil? So fish oil is, and I say fish oil because it is the most powerful of all the omega threes, right? We have plant omega threes but they don't convert very easily. It's L. A.

Is what the omega three is in plants like in chia seeds for example. But fish oil, you want to think about um resolving and repairing when it comes to aging. Right?

So one of the hallmarks of aging is inflammation. And so uh it will the fish oil will help resolve and essentially stop the inflammation and then you want to add in in combination polyphony ALs which will help repair the tissues that have been damaged by uh the the inflammation.

So the combination of fish oil and polyphenols is powerful. – Well this is a wealth of information Lori, I'm really appreciating because they're all uh factors that people can take and do right right away.

And I was also appreciative when you said that there was one of those supplements that actually repairs mitochondria because the question I always have is are we just trying to slow down the decay or the aging of the wear and tear process or we also able to do the repair and recovery.

And so can you mention that supplement again that you said before repairs mitochondria? – Absolutely. It's called N. T. Factor N. T. Factor and it's it's really very effective.

And you know it's just it's it's one of those things I think that um people don't realize the importance of mitochondria. Some may some may not but suffice it to say it is. And you know, and there are also ways like with your religion, for example, we found it's a which is a Euro lifton found From those who eat pomegranates for example. And the only 30% of all people have the ability to have the gut bacteria to synthesize or produce your own within a there are many religions but you're a within a in particular and this you're a within a actually helps uh it's called mitophagy gene.

It helps create new Mitochondria remodeling and you know, it's like autophagy with you know with ourselves, it's mitophagy with mitochondria. So – can you explain those two terms?

– Yes. So autophagy is when for example, I'm trying to think of an if you're intermittent fasting or you're on essentially, let's use intermittent fasting is a better example.

When you intermittent fast for at least 18 hours, you enter a state of autopsy gee which where everything the digestion stops in the body, everything slows down. Right?

And so the cells say, Okay, you know, it's time to clean house. We have time now, we don't have to worry about digestion or anything. We're going to pretty much focus on cleaning house.

And what happens is is the cell then gets rid of the junk and the gunk and remodels cells. They take old cell parts create new ones and it's it's pretty much creating a whole new you essentially if you're consistent with it.

And that's autophagy, cellular autopsy gee. But mitophagy is when your mitochondria essentially go through the same process, they take the old uh my mitochondria that have slowed down.

They're not doing so well and or they've stopped working. They actually uh they create a brand new mitochondria and it's important to note, we have just not just one. We have like roughly 10 to 20,000 in each cell in most areas, you know, in the most energy um dense areas in our bodies such as our brain and our heart and our muscles. So but yeah, so it's, you know, you're creating new mitochondria and we have mitochondria in every cell.

And as I mentioned, they're critical for our optimal health if they're healthy and we have enough of them. And that should be our goal in in terms of promoting longevity.

– So I appreciate the process that you just identified where if you don't eat for an extended period of time, the body, so we don't have to digest food right now.

Let's put the energy into repairing the body. Because there's a there's a parallel psychological notion here where if we're spending all of our time in the stress mode focused on where the danger might be, uh the body is preparing for fight or flight and it's taking the energy away from other important maintenance processes of the body.

So I always, yeah, so I always tell people uh you have a choice, your body has a choice between fight or flight, protect and defend or hell and maintain. And that's a good reason why you want to modulate your stress response as well. So that you're giving the body just like you suggested with intermittent fasting, you want to give your body a time out so it can kind of clean itself up.

– I love that. And you you describe that really well. And also, you know, a lot of people think you have to do an enormous amount of intermittent fasting when you don't you just you know, 12 hours is fantastic, especially, you know, if you do most of it while you're sleeping.

So eight of the 12 hours, right? – So I've been doing I've been doing 16 hours, you mentioned 18. Do I have to go up now? Do I have to go? – Well, this is interesting thing.

So our research only shows 18 and above, but we haven't created test sensitive enough to show that maybe even 12 hours is promoting autocracy. So, and they think it might, it may be all right, all right, very good, very good.

– So the change, you're you're really just like you recognized in your own life, you had to make some changes, you saw the effects in your own family.

But people find this very difficult to do is to make these kinds of changes, especially since we've been sort of conditioned with advertising and everything.

And we've gotten into habit patterns with our eating. How do you address that? – Well, you know, I think that's the awareness is key. So I think everybody who's watching this right now is they either know or they are becoming aware of how to manage your health. And when you, when you take care of your health from a perspective of longevity or preventing inflammation inflammation, then you are creating a healthier life and you're making choices that are going to that you will see and feel there's no question about it.

And I and it's really about, you know, when you when you do make changes not to do everything all at once, it's about one at a time and because I think it's it's creating new habits essentially, you're trying new foods and, and so it can be off putting for some people I know, you know, if you're going from um you know, I'm trying to think of a good example, but of course I go to grains, uh you go, if you're going from white bread to Ezekiel bread for example, that's a tough ask right there, right?

But you know, if you do it slowly and you maybe get their raisin bread, you try, but then that leads to another choice that's healthier or you stop saying, you know, I don't want that bread and um but did I answer your question?

– Yeah. Yeah, well I think awareness and also I would say it's just sticking with it and not giving up a lot of times try and they are not immediately successful, uh they fall back into old patterns and then they just give up, so yeah, that's really good, being persistent with it, – Consistency is key and and like you said, it's, if you, if you don't feel like you did well one day, get right back on it at the next meal, it's always that next bite that's going to change, you know, from an epigenetic perspective too, which is meaning that what we we ingest or put into our bodies or the environment, how it affects us essentially is is huge and so um but yeah, it's it's it definitely is important.

Um but it may be even habit stacking, you know? – Yeah, so one of the things I always recommend is planning your meals is very important because if you haven't planned and now you're ready to eat and you're hungry, uh you make bad choices. – Yes. – If you planned your meals out your when and where and how that's a very important aspect of making better choices.

– Yes. Uh it really truly is, it's um, you know, you have to architect, you have to like create an environment that's healthy. You are a product of your environment.

So you're pretty much like a environmental architectural engineer because if you have, if you have um, you know, a kitchen full of junk or let's just say you have that chunky monkey in the back of the freezer, you know, it's there, you will always go to it when you're vulnerable. So, you know, we have to design that that that lifestyle really and make lifestyle choices that are going to benefit us in terms of stopping resolving that inflammation.

– I have some of my own addictions like to certain cookies and things like that. And the only way I can avoid eating them is if I don't get them into the house, I don't buy them at the supermarket, I could make that choice, I can't make it once they're in in my home. – I know, and it takes strength, doesn't it to do that, like, no I'm not going to bring in there.

– Right. Right so I had a question about mitochondria health because you know you've talked about it's the importance of our mitochondria and others on our on our summit have as well. Um Is there a way to test for mitochondrial health? – No not that I'm aware of.

Um I'm just trying to think there is there is a test for example if you're a you're a within a producer or not or if and if you are the chances are that you are going to actually have uh functioning mitochondria.

Healthier mitochondria but offhand I can't think of anything. – Okay okay I guess if it's if it's an energy producing part of our cell then if you feel fatigued a lot maybe that's one indication. – Why and why when people are magnesium deficient they feel so tired because their their mitochondria are not functioning optimally. Mhm. – So in general you would recommend or let me ask you you would you recommend supplements for some of these ingredients that we may not get sufficiently from our food.

– Yes in fact I would recommend most people like for example I talked about the fish oil I recommend supplementing with fish oil obviously make sure your doctor approves of it and then um google icing I recommend that and I recommend supplementing with co Q.

10 and P. Q. Q. And then depending on what your vitamin D. Level is that and always with your vitamin D. Take K. Two Vitamin K. They're they're showing now that the whole spectrum of cases better than just K. two for example.

Um and then curcumin I highly recommend supplementing with curcumin because uh it has so many longevity benefits to it and people can look at the research on it. And also um magnesium magnesium three and eight is something that I personally take and everything I've spoken about today I use myself.

Um But it's magnesium three and eight is the only magnesium that can cross the blood brain barrier and a lot of people mistakenly think glycine does but it does not.

It is the three and eight. So if you're going to use magnesium you might as well improve your brain health. – So you mentioned P. Q. Q. Can you tell us what that is?

– It is, what it does is it helps promote more. It promotes mitophagy. What we talked about earlier where it creates better uh more powerful, more robust mitochondria.

And it works in tandem with CO Q 10 which produces an efficient, speedier mitochondria. – So this is such an enjoyable conversation Lori and just thank you useful information. Do you have any programs that you're doing that? You can tell the audience about?

– No I don't. Not at the moment. I do have a podcast show called this podcast Burns fat. If anyone's on it it's about creating optimal health and you know anything that really fat loss, anything that goes along with that. Um and so, but no programs. – And you mentioned something that uh you have available as a sort of a free gift to our audience, our listeners, can you share what that is, and we'll have notes about this uh attached to the program as well. – Absolutely, I'd be happy to.

So I would love to give your viewers uh my book, the beginner's guide to intermittent fasting. You can buy it on amazon, but I'd like to gift it to everybody. And so yeah, just we'll have the link and everything for you. Wonderful, Wonderful.

– And what is your website? How can people and how can people reach you? – Yes, it's DrLori.com and I'm on all social media. Well the three big ones, you know, on twitter and instagram and facebook.

– Alright, well it's been a pleasure talking with you, Lori, thank you so much for joining us today. – Thank you so much, Stephen, it's really been an honor for me and a pleasure.

Your wonderful thanks

Lori Shemek, PhD, CNC

Anti-Inflammatory Nutrition Strategies