Introduction to the Podcast and Guest

The whole beauty industry is part of the problem. Like, what is microneedling doing? What is radiofrequency doing, peels, lasers? Like it's all damaging to the tissue, it breaks down your face.

And it is actually producing the same collagen, the ratio of collagen fibres as found in scar tissue. But whatever light you are seeing is light that has not gone into the body.

So we made a lot of claims. To be honest, everybody makes a lotta claims out there. And we got Imperial College in London to build an identical device at the same power, at same frequency, but just using LED as a light source, not laser.

If you're overwhelmed with chronic health symptoms and still don't have answers, you are not alone. I'm Dr. Javan and on redefining wellness with Dr Javin, we'll be exploring root causes like Lyme disease, mold and parasites and I'll guide you with simple and practical steps towards real healing.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Redefining Wellness Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. David Moore, and today I have Lucy Goff with me and she is the founder and the person that brought to us the Lima Laser.

And I am actually really excited about talking about this today. We're going to get into the science behind it because that's what really matters when we're talking lasers and cool technologies, that there's some backing behind.

So Lucy, thank you for joining me today! Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you. As they say in London, Thank You for Having Me.

So I was looking into you, I doing some research and my story was, as a college athlete, that Complex chronic illness really hit me hard. Lyme disease, parasites, mold.

It all really dropped the hammer on me. And that's what really created my passion for what I do here today. As I was getting to you, it looks like you had a near-death experience that brought you to the same exact point of why you're doing what you are doing.

So can you tell me some more about that? Yeah. I mean, I never set out to launch a company. But in 2012, when I had my daughter, and I got preeclampsia and subsequently after I'd had her caught septicemia, you know, emerged from the birth.

And I just thought, well, first of all, the anaesthetic didn't work.

Lucy Goff's Health Crisis and Founding Lima

a spinal, an epidural and a general mixed with preeclampsia and then this kind of rapid decline in my body just shutting down with rapid onset septicemia that wasn't picked up quick enough.

I actually don't remember the six weeks after I had her really because I was in intensive care while they were battling to save my life. Although I am so grateful for medicine because ultimately I wouldn't be here today without it, it all came at a cost and my body was just completely finished.

I couldn't even carry my daughter or I couldn't function. And all these doctors were saying, well, there was nothing wrong with me because the septicemia had gone and just to give it time.

But I mean, time, that is just Who's got time when their body just can't even function? And time is not a medicine. Time is a default if you can cure what you've got.

So I was in Geneva at one of these hospitals while they were looking at my bloods. And it was there that I bumped into one of the world's leading longevity professors, a guy called Professor Paul Clayton, and he changed my life.

He introduced me to the hidden category of pharmaceutical grade supplement ingredients, And he recommended a formulation for me. And literally three weeks later, I just felt myself again.

And we started actually as a supplement company and a formulation that really looked at the symbiotic relationship between sleep and stress. You know, if you can't sleep, you stressed, If you're stressed you, can sleep.

and looking at a really powerful anti-inflammatory based formulation. that had these high-tech delivery systems infused into them to mean that they're bioavailable.

They survive the acid in your stomach. You know, they stable in body's temperature and they actually have a benefit at the end of it. So a powerful anti-inflammatory, it had serotonin boosters in and it just changed my life.

And that's what we started Lima as in 2018. The supplement we've still got today, Um, it was in 2020 that we, uh, launched the Lima laser and that changed the company into another stratosphere.

Always the pain that someone lives through that brings out the, honestly, the meaning of why they're doing what they are doing. Right. So you had your experience that brought you full circle to meeting this guy and being able to start your company, launching the right supplements, understanding what that did for you.

And a lot of times you went through septicemia. So this toxic burden in your life where the body was almost like we said at the beginning of this near-death experience because of the toxicity burden.

Was there something that you guys Yeah. And also from the preeclampsia as well, you know, that had like, there were just huge toxins in my body because of that.

Was there something that you did alongside of these supplements that was for Toxinburg? That's what I talk about all the time. Is there, was there a detox that did?

And what was he really formulating for you? So there wasn't, no. I was doing everything that I could do. Drinking loads of water, exercising, eating absolutely no processed foods.

I was taking all these supplements, but I taking organic forms of these supplement and I realized that a lot of them were contradicting each other and they actually weren't doing anything.

So the heart of the limo formulation is 100% bioavailable tumeric extract, Hydrocurc, powerful anti-inflammatory. There were beta-glucans, which were immune boosters.

There's PEA protein that helped the circadian rhythm. There was patented aphron that increased the serotonin in my brain. Vitamin D, K2, lycopene. That there was these really powerful ingredients that had these high-tech delivery systems infused in them.

that just started acting really quickly. I didn't know whether it was the placebo effect or whatever. The first night after I took them, I woke up feeling a different person and from there, the benefits were cumulative.

Was I really experiencing this or was I just imagining that the ingredients were working?

Why Lima Laser Differs from Beauty Treatments

But my mum was saying, I looked as though I was coming back to life. That was the only way that she could see them working. And they were. I guess the Lima supplement today, yes, people might not be recovering from septicemia, but I built Lima as the power to change.

So we're giving people the power to change. And by far the biggest group of customers we have are perimenopausal and menopausal women who are undergoing the change of the peri-menopause and HRT is absolutely brilliant, but it might not be the full solution.

And especially in the UK, you can't really be prescribed sleeping tablets or anything like that. a resistance to antidepressants. They can become addictive and they come with debilitating side effects.

People are really looking for alternatives because they might not be depressed. they might actually not need a sleeping tablet. It might just be as a result of the crash in oestrogen.

So I think, you know, we've got to, the menopause is actually, not a medical condition. it's not classed as medical. condition, so I, think we got, to treat it as, a non-medical condition and actually look at, looking at the root cause of this, these suite of things that happen as a result of the hormonal crash that your body is trying to navigate.

Just before a woman gets a period, you can feel more anxious or your sleep might go or you feel like a different person and it's almost kind of Imagine feeling that every day because that's what some women go through in the perimenopause.

It's a time when you are looking for not just any solution, but a solution that you don't have to hope it's going to work. A solution where you know it is going work because it has been These individual ingredients have been proven in published studies.

So it's not looking at generic ingredients, but it is actually this patented ingredient at the dose that we are formulating in. there's a ton of evidence behind it.

And that's really the benchmark that people should be looking for for something. It sounds like you're very intentional with each step that you take there.

We started off by talking about a laser and how I was interested in the technology you were building. So that intentionality, I assume, went into the Lima laser.

And, you know, just looking at lasers and looking the entire health wellness, but also the beauty industries, a lot of the treatments that people do out there are damaging.

And for me, I've even asked when I'm talking to my fiance, Like, what is microneedling doing? What is radiofrequency doing, peels, lasers? Like it's all damaging to the tissue.

It breaks down your face. How is the Lima laser different than that? And why did you actually lean into that piece versus these other things? Well, first of all, it was an absolutely accidental discovery.

The professor who I started Lima with, Professor Paul Clayton, he was in Germany at a conference that was looking at cold laser technology. And there was this whole team of doctors And they're all one under the room looking at the cartilage in a knee that had been regenerated over a 12 week period using cold laser technology.

Professor Paul Clayton was at the other end of the room, and he was looking at a photograph of skin on the knee that had been treated in this patient.

The patient was in his early 60s, but he noticed the skin of his knee looked about 20 years younger than the one on his other knee. That's when he realised that the entire beauty device industry is certainly at home is either non-fracture laser, which is a damaging laser or it's just an LED.

It's an led which has the bulb that's in your ceiling. LED doesn't have nearly the same biological penetration to cold laser. and he was looking at this huge, floor-standing, cold laser hospital machine.

He was thinking, I wonder what the size of the technology was inside of this, huge floor standing hospital, and I wondered whether we could harness that power of the cold laser machine at the same power as this huge machine with the size treatment lens and make it safe for people to use at home and if we could do that, that would change the beauty industry forever.

And that's what we did. This hospital machine was like $40,000 and then we've miniaturized it at the same power using the size treatment lens for $2,500. The light will last you 10 years, it's battery powered, you can take it with you.

And it's really a technology that you should be using every day because unlike the rest of the industry that damages your skin in some way to stimulate collagen production, this technology does not.

and it's got a biological penetration of up to nine centimetres beneath the skin surface. So not only are you transforming skin, but you are also transforming the muscle and the ligaments that the skins sit beneath it, which is why you get this amazing lift when you treat the jaw and neck with the lima laser.

And I guess because the whole beauty industry is part of the problem, so they're all damaging you in some way, whether that's radio frequency, micro-needling, some of these other treatments that are painful, more fierce, whatever they are, they all are damaging your skin in a way.

And actually, when you damage your body, your just goes into the repair response. So it just thinks, I've just got to heal myself as quickly as possible.

Your body can't, has got no way of saying, oh, let's produce a really beautiful scar. This doesn't happen like that. So, it's a very quick, very disordered process and it is actually producing the same collagen, the ratio of collagen fibers as found in scar tissue.

Whereas the Lima laser, is not doing that. What it is doing is an absolutely different technology. It is switching your cell back into youth mode. Its making the entire cell act like it did when you were a lot younger.

and it's putting the genes back where they should be. So if genes that are associated with the useful things that should up-regulated, that might have been down- regulated as part of the aging process, they're once again up regulated.

The genes should suppressed, associated bad things with inflammation, should down regulated that might have started to work as part of the aging process are once again down-regulated.

You're using the cold near-infrared laser light to purely regenerate your skin, the muscle, and the smas and ligaments that sit beneath it. And nothing else is doing that.

We've actually patented this technology. If you are just using like some other, you know, anyone can use cold laser, but unless it's delivering at the high enough power into the cell, it actually won't work.

So we've patented a high powered laser. to deliver 12 joules, which is the dose of laser light that you need in order to trigger this genetic switch into a little handheld.

So it's either in the Lima laser or the lima laser pro. And it has changed the beauty industry forever.

Research on Laser vs LED Gene Expression

You know, I can't believe that it took somebody, you know people from outside the Beauty industry to actually innovate and actually if you look at what goes on in the beautiful industry, it's very kind of insular in a way that does innovate.

It's like you another peptide, another retinol, and other vitamin C, other LED. another microcurrent device, it's all very different brands using the same technologies, whereas this is an absolute new technology.

It's not mixed with any other technology, which you shouldn't do. If you are using a cold laser, you should only have cold-laser into the device. You don't need anything else.

It's absolutely incredible on total skin regeneration, you know, like wrinkles, dark spots, redness, scars. It is just absolutely incredibly. In fact, it's the same technology that you use for pain management, damaged tendons or if you can't do a gym class because your knee's painful or you've got golfer's elbow or any of these other technologies.

So it's an absolutely incredible technology and we've harnessed the power of a clinic in a little device. So you made a lot of claims as you're going through talking about the power of laser and turning on genes.

So with my audience, I'm always talking, about research, looking at the data, trying to understand what does and doesn't work, because to be honest, everybody makes a lotta claims out there.

But I know you actually commissioned to get research. You've got some research done, and there's been studies on actual laser turning human genes on, so I'd love for you to dive into that a little bit more, just because As you said, this is completely different than the normal, typical medical industry when it looks at skin.

And I'll just give a piece of this. When I was coming across the Lima laser, I know a cold laser because in my practice we've used lasers quite a bit.

I've got red lights, which are big LED panels. And I've dove into a little bit of research on the differences, like why is one this cost? Why is when that cost, what are they doing?

What's the difference is. And, I have a dermatologist on staff in my clinic and I also got an internist. When I reached out to them and was chatting with them about the technology, they're like, oh, that's very different.

That's definitely different than our dermatology practices of what we're doing. So I'd love for you to take us a bit further into that. Yeah. Interestingly, the LED market boomed in the 1990s because cold laser was not available to use outside of a clinic.

So scientists were challenged to come up with an alternative technology that was safe to using the home and was cheap. Which is why the LED market boomed, because scientists assumed that the only thing that mattered was the wavelength.

So the wave length is the frequency, it's the colour of the light. They assumed all near-infrared light all red light could work the same in the body.

They didn't take into account the light structure. And actually, LED is amazing at lighting up a room because it's a scattered light. It's the like that runs in all different directions.

That's why when you switch on an LED mask or an led panel, you just see this brilliant plume of light But whatever light you are seeing is light that has not gone into the body.

Because what happens with LED is the light hits a dense surface like the skin and bounces off the surface back into room. In order for a light to have biological penetration, it's got to be monochromatic, which means it is one colour.

It's got to be coherent, which means it runs in a straight line. And it needs to polarized, which means that runs parallel in tram lines. Even if you get a narrow bandwidth LED, it's not monochromatic because it is always mixed with white.

It is not coherent because, you know, it's a wiggly line and it never, not really polarized because its not collimated like laser. So, we did a world first test on looking at gene expression in the dermis, which is the base layer of the skin.

Looking at the Lima laser, and we got Imperial College in London to build an identical device at same power, at a same frequency, but just using LED as a light source, not laser.

And in the Lima laser skin, 45 genes were expressed in The Dermis. And the CERT1 gene, which is the main longevity gene was accelerated six times. In the LED device, only one gene expressed In The Dermis and it wasn't the longevity.

So it gives you an idea of even in base layer of the skin LED has not got the same biological penetration as cold laser. And, you know, this was a world first clinical.

Nobody had ever looked at the gene expression in the dermis of cold laser compared to LED. So, these LED panels, they're amazing if you want to have a glow or if want you to feel better because they will stimulate the mitochondria on the very surface of your skin and get more oxygen into your body.

You just feel better. LED has got a purpose. The blue light from LED, it will help to eliminate bacteria. I see a lot of beauty devices, which is absolutely alarming, that are using blue light at 416 nanometers.

Now, this is how little that is understood about, you know, light technology in the beauty industry, because actually 4 16 nanometer will age you. So that's the aging part of the blue spectrum.

If you want to use blue lights on skin, it should be about 450 nanometres. This is why the LED market has boomed. But cold laser technology was the original technology that LED was based on.

And what we've done is we have engineered it into a world first device that can penetrate from all the way from the skin right to the bone without losing biological power.

and it's a very clever patented technology. It's also different to those other non-patented cold lasers where they might just use lots of five milliwatt diodes.

You can get some like cold laser masks and things like that, but that is not the same technology as LEMA. If you imagine 300 laser diodes might be this thick, so you don't get a lot of coverage from lots of five milliwatt diods.

To put it into perspective, in the Lima laser, across this three-centimeter lens, you get 25,000 laser beams. And in this device, the Pro, you get 75,000 laser beams.

So you start to see the amount of laser beam you want if you actually want proper coverage across a wider treatment lens than just a laser pointer.

Personal Results, Usage Tips, and Treatment Timeline

And this is what makes things so interesting because every time I get a new advertisement across my social media, which is constant because this the world I live in and this what I do with patients every single day as far as figuring out what technology works and understanding how to help support people with complex situations.

I'm always asking the questions. How do we even know this works? I love that you did that research study because that helps me to understand a little bit better.

Like I said, I've got a team of docs that are a part of my clinic. And when I got this, I was like, all right, so what should I expect? There's one thing that I get told by reading a website, going and doing research, looking at cold laser technologies.

And as I went and put it on, and I said, let's check it out. I'm going to go over here on my little crow's feet on the side of my head because as a guy at 40 years old, now I am starting to think, okay, You know, my skin is starting to show a little age.

And then you get the glow of these big lights on you. When you're on stage and they send you the pictures, you are like… I'm not as young as I used to be.

Dang it. Okay. What do I do about this? So I've been doing the Lima laser, uh, about 10, 12 weeks. And that's why I didn't even want to do this podcast too early.

Cause I was like, I want see what this technology itself does for me. I definitely seen a bit of a change and by the way, getting married. So you know, Oh, thank you.

So I was like, I want to make sure that as I'm going into the hopefully only marriage I am going to have for the rest of my life with all the pictures.

Yeah. Fingers crossed. This is it. I've 40. You know, want look the best for her. And I know she's putting so much effort with the things that women do and making this day have all of the pieces of stuff I didn't even think about.

Women, my goodness, whether it's the the aesthetic of all the pieces on the table, or the multiple different dresses that you may wear for the event versus the dancing versus, the reception.

I'm, you know, I am mind blown with how many things are going through her head, but I m like, m gonna do my part. So here we go. m going to do this. M gonna try and look nice.

And also, honey, what can I do for you? How can i help you. Do you need me to pick up the chairs? The suit? Give her a laser. Would you like the laser?

She's like oh, yes. So I've been using it and it's just been intriguing to see some changes in my face where, you know, I did do some of the peptides, the GHKCU, did not see as much of a change.

I have for sure the infrared sauna. I had the LED panels. I have an LED panel I literally built into my shower. Because at the time that was the technology I was using and it does it helped my knee have better functionality when I go to the gym.

But the collagen repair did not happen that you've seen with some of the evidence in high powered cold laser. So now I'm like, Can you make me a, which I don't even know if this is possible, can I get my cold laser panel now for my shower that's about 42 inches tall?

But in the meantime, I've got this which is amazing. Well, you can always put this on your knee. It's FDA cleared at the moment for cosmetic use, but it's the same technology that is used for pain management, for cartilage regeneration, all of joint repair, the whole lot.

So it's an incredible device to have. We may have to do our second podcast after I stick my lasers on my knee and go, all right, because I've dislocated my knees four times.

I'm actually very hypermobile. When we talk about collagen, I can bend my fingers all the way backwards. Yeah. So can I, look. That collagen is a piece of the puzzle that we're working with in complex chronic illness now is that genetic piece that you brought up.

When you have collagen like this, you're essentially more susceptible to things like POTS or MCAS, but flexibility is there. It's just always interesting how science and genetics, and as you get going in it, what it can actually mean for somebody.

You know what I want to ask is this because this is my question to my dermatologist when I first started looking at these lasers is if and when they go buy one of these and they take it home because you know they're getting married or they are starting to get their social media growing or shoot they just want a look the best that they can look.

What are some actionable steps that can take with this as soon as they get it? As soon as they get it, use it. It sounds fundamental to say, but use that every day.

Carve out the time and use every every. I mean, I can show you, send you pictures of what it can do. Like we'll send the pictures the knees. We'll sent you the picture of the inner arms.

You know, like if you show, put put these on the podcast and everyone will just go, oh my God, I cannot believe what this technology can do. If you literally, three minutes a day, and you are not going to believe, what does technology do?

When I first used it on my knees, because my knees were just like, I inherited the skin of my mother and they were terrible looking. and I'll send you these pictures.

And literally 30 days later, I was like, wow, this technology is absolutely incredible. It transformed my knees. If you go to our website at the moment and look at their knees, they're my that were used as a doctor-led trial when I very, very first tried the laser.

And it is just so incredible. Also like on your inner arms, you know, as you age your, your skin on the inner arm goes very thin and crepey and like can make people not feel so confident to use to wear the clothing that they really, really want.

So it's just an incredible tool to have, but use it every day, charge it everyday. Don't not charge, always make sure the battery is on full charge and carve out that time.

If you don't have 15 minutes a day to sit down or be in a car and use the laser, you need to make that time for yourself. So many women kind of put themselves last, whether it's their kids or their partner or work.

And it is just so important to carve out that in the day for yourselves. The happier you are, the more balanced you feel, just transcends to the family as well.

So charge it and use it. Take a before shot, take a very good before-shot of the problem, because you can't feel it, so you think, oh, it's not working, you associate pain with results.

30 days later if you take another picture you'll just go, wow. And actually the red light that you can see, that's just a red line to tell you the device is switched on.

It's not the laser. The laser is near-infrared and you cannot see near infrared with the human eye, which is why we had to put a Red switch on light. So that Red Switch on Light is just the light to show you it's switched off.

It's not the laser. The laser is near-infrared, completely cold, very, powerful, and it delivers this 12 joules of high-energy cold laser that really does transform, whether it's your neck, your jowls, you crow's feet, or your cheeks, forehead, decollete.

Anywhere on your body, it is just absolutely incredible. And, you know, don't tell me to do something and tell you to wait. So I went and looked at the skin pictures on your website, which are pretty incredible changes.

Yeah, like I said, I've been seeing some changes, even in myself as I go through and look at this and Here I am, like I said, turned 40 this year. I'm like, all right, I guess I have to stop acting like the kid and start acting, okay, let's start preventing things externally, not just internally with eating so well and doing all of those pieces of the pie and digging in a little bit deeper.

So the pictures are pretty telling there. That's pretty awesome, honestly. And I was just enjoying looking at those as you were talking about it. So, and I think kind of, you know, the other thing is, yes, these are an investment.

The Lima lasers are investment, but, I know what a really good quality laser diode costs in a factory. And, if we could make this device for cheaper and it work, we would.

You just can't. it's absolutely not viable. So, you know, I hate to say it, but you kind of get what you pay for with cold laser devices. You know you can buy medical grade cold-laser devices that are not as powerful as the Lima laser that cost a lot more money.

If you actually look at the serious players within cold lasers, The Lima laser represents incredible value. It's actually got patented technology in there, so it protects you.

You don't even have to wear goggles when you use it. you can just treat the area around your eyes. I can tell people, we bought cold lasers in the practice before and they're never never hardly under 10 or $20,000. So the cold laser industry is just to get that technology to function just has cost to it.

And as you said, you get what you pay for you do that with anything in life. You get junk, it's going to be junk. Those cheap, cheap technology out there I've seen too many times whether it was lasers, red lights.

I mean, for that matter, I mean TVs, they'll burn out if you just go super cheap. So I think the price point for getting a cold laser is actually, for lasers, very affordable.

But how long should people use this for? Like how many minutes and how does it typically take to make a big change to the skin? If you're using it every day in 30 days, you'll see a really, really amazing improvement.

And we recommend that you use it daily for 12 weeks and then after that, You can just use a couple of times a week, to kind of maintain the results. If using for dark spots or anything like that.

you can just use it till they go and then you don't have to use again. But if you're using it for, you know, youthful skin, then obviously, it doesn't stop the aging process.

Sadly, nothing stops the ageing process, but it will certainly turn back the hands of time. It's amazing also if your having like a facelift, It's amazing to use after a facelift or after any surgery to really help reduce the swelling and to help internal healing.

So we've got incredible case studies for post-operative healing as well. Laser is incredible for that. Well, as we're starting to wrap up here, I have one question for you.

conversation about cold laser and why it's different. Honestly, that's the biggest thing I'm taking away is how cold-laser is different and how this specific laser is so different than the other technologies on the market and don't go spend $400 or $500 on something to get Very, very little.

Like you said, these studies showed one gene turned on from more of the LED technology versus 45 genes turned from the laser technology. What's the one thing you want people to take away from this that are dealing with difficult health situations?

They're finally getting their health back on track now. I guess it depends what the health issue is that you've got, but fundamentally, if you can get any help to help with sleep, to helps with stress, That's going to be a lot of the way to amazing skin.

But then you also need something to actually physically put on the skin that's better than a topical that can actually switch that skin back into youth mode.

And that is where the Lima Laser comes in. Okay well I can tell you from my experiences cold laser is the way to go when it comes to light therapy if you want a real strength and power.

Like you said having a red light panel which I love does good but it's just not on the same wavelength as far as strength It'll make you feel good. There's something to be said about having one of those big LED panels sitting in front of it, stimulating the mitochondria on the surface of your skin, getting more oxygen into the body, that it's great.

But if you want something with a hell of a lot more biological power, then you need cold laser. and other cold laser technology is not as powerful as the Lima Laser patented technology.

So you kind of, I guess, you know, sadly you get what you pay for. If we could make it for any cheaper, we would. And, if you look at the serious players in cold-laser, they're actually way more than the lima laser.

So yeah, we've tried to offer as best value as we can. But I think you've got a discount code as well. Yeah, We do. So to wrap up the podcast here, if you're interested in getting one of these, like I was interested getting these.

Honestly, my team, the medical doctor, one reached out at the beginning and then reached to me about it. If you want one, you get 10% off with the code JABAN10.

then go get your Lima laser. And Lucy, thank you so much for this conversation because I learned a lot about lasers and red lights and just the technology which helps us to make those decisions of where we want to put our finances.

No. Well, thank you so much. And honestly, I'm very excited that you're getting married. I think I've got a very good feeling about this. Because you will, well, she's obviously putting a lot of effort into it and you'll putting.

So your intention is, your intentions are very. Good. The best of luck with that. Sending you all our best wishes. Until the next time, like I said, now I put it on my knee and want to talk again.

Again, that code was jayben10, my name spelled out 10 and go get your laser. Thanks everybody for listening. It's on lemur.life. There you go. Bye everybody.

Thank you for tuning in to redefining wellness with Dr. Jayvon. If this episode spoke to you, please follow and share this podcast with someone who is ready to take control of their chronic health symptoms.

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Lucy Goff

Most Beauty Treatments Are Trauma for Your Skin