Hi everyone. Welcome to another Doctor Talks. I am your host, Doctor Kelly Halderman, and today we have a fabulous topic and a fabulous doctor joining us.

Doctor Megan, castling is here. Welcome, doctor. Megan. Hi. How are you? Thanks so much for having me. You're welcome. We are going to be talking about one of my absolute favorite topics and that is detoxification.

And we're going to be talking about it in regards to the thyroid because again our topic is thyroid health. So Doctor Megan, why don't we start by, talking about your practice and who you are and what you do.

So I'm Doctor Megan Kearsley, and I work outside of Minneapolis in a town called Bloomington, Minnesota. I have a integrative health clinic where I work with a bunch of other integrative providers.

And, my background is actually chiropractic and nurse practitioner. And so I've just sort of always had this love for natural health, looking at things at the big level, getting to the root cause, and I treat a lot of hormones, a lot of thyroid.

We do a lot of detoxification. We obviously also do musculoskeletal. We really just connect the whole body here, to the clinic that I work at, one Agora Integrative Health and just love this, sort of area.

And this arena got out of traditional medicine, which is sort of the same story as probably everybody on this, you know, summit is the fact that it just wasn't fulfilling.

We were missing big, big parts of the picture. We weren't really, truly helping patients, and we were just putting one Band-Aid after another. And unfortunately, too, as time goes on, these wounds and the bandages need to be a lot bigger because of the fact that there's a lot more coming at individuals.

And so just really finding we didn't have the tools to help people in the traditional medicine world. And so have come over a long time ago to this side of medicine and just thoroughly, really enjoy not only helping patients, but the education part of really putting it all together.

Awesome. Yes, I personally, have known you for a long time, and the clinic that you have is one of the best in the Twin Cities. It's not, you know, I mean, the clinics that I've ever been to.

So we have one smart cookie with us today. I'm really excited. So you said something that I think is really, really important is that having to use bigger Band-Aids because people are sicker and sicker and talk to us about the toxic world we live in and how these toxins can perhaps be affecting the cellular communication and the metabolism and how that really affects thyroid health.

Yeah. Well, and it really is the thyroid is a great conversation to have with this, because when we look at it, we're just living in a much more toxic world.

And I think that this can be such a doom and gloom conversation, and it doesn't have to be, honestly, as we sort of dive into this topic and start talking about it, I think it's actually very empowering, because I think a lot of us go through a day that we don't really question, and especially ten, 20 years ago, we just thought that, you know, if the FDA, if the USDA, if those agencies said that it was safe, that it really wouldn't have long term complications or problems.

And so we've had a lot of things sneak into our day to day life that we're exposed to. And unfortunately, that a lot of those things do stay in our body.

They stay and at a cellular level, they stay in our fat, our fat tissue, but they also accumulate in organs like our thyroid. And we know this. There's tons of research about this.

We know this without any doubt. But a lot of us then, you know, we accumulated over time. So it's not this bump in the night of, okay, this is you know, I wake up and today is the day I feel bad.

It's a sort of gradual onset. And I've heard a lot of other functional providers say this term, and I just think it's true. It's death by a thousand cuts that, you know, it's not necessarily that a lot of people even come in and they were like, tell me the one heavy metal in my body.

Tell me, you know, the one food that I'm sensitive to. We're still in sort of this, you know, find one problem and that's going to be the end all, be all.

And the truth is, is that a lot of us are just carrying around an accumulation of a lifetime of toxicity, and that with the thyroid and the thyroid specifically, then it's not just the fact of that.

The thyroid itself is more susceptible to a lot of these toxins, but also then that as the body accumulates, that affects cellular communication and our neurotransmitters, our hormones, then can't communicate at the cellular level that they should.

And then our immune system, hormone system, and our nervous system start to have all of these changes and they try to compensate. And so then one of the master glands to try to really rebalance the body's the thyroid.

And so you're talking about sort of two different sides of the fact that the thyroid really will show up a ton when it comes to toxicity in the body, and something that we have to address.

Right. It's like that cell dangerous spots that Nadia talks about, right. It's really the body. It's you know, it's trying to deal with the milieu that it's in and there's signals.

And one of the master regulators, like you said, is that thyroid gland saying S. O. S., you know that enough is enough, right? And again, death by a thousand papercuts.

It's it's one thing after the next. And that's what Doctor Paul Cam is right about in our book. It's that one thing. It's that allostatic load that's pushing down and just weighing so much.

So yeah, you can do a heavy metal detox and you can do parasites and all this. But again, it's it's really the comprehensive holistic view. So in your view being, you know in in day and day in day out with patients, what do you see.

There's the most, the most severe or the, the, the, the biggest, I guess, insult for pathogens or environmental toxins or what have you. What's weighing on the thyroid the most?

What would you say? So I'd say there's, probably like 5 or 6 different categories. And so one of them would definitely be heavy metals. And I think in the, category of heavy metals, there's really going to be four major ones for the thyroid, mercury.

And it's interesting because mercury actually has an effect in a couple of different ways. It also mimics iodine. And so the other conversation that I think a lot of people, sort of need to realize because it's so interesting on the physiological level, is that a lot of times when we talk about what's toxic to the thyroid, it's because of the fact that it sort of mimics or is very similar to the nutrients that the thyroid needs to function properly.

And those are going to be things especially like iodine and selenium. And so when we start to get some of these more toxic environmental chemicals and heavy metals in our body, we start to alter the effect then, of how the nutrients will be able to play into both the cellular level of communication and function, but especially the thyroid.

So heavy metal wise, mercury, aluminum, lead are the three big ones along with cadmium. Cadmium loves spongy tissue. And so we see a lot of times when people are exposed to cadmium, it'll actually accumulate both in the thyroid and then the prostate glands.

Another one that will really accumulate cadmium because of its sponginess. And so we then we'll see that heavy metals affect it, both because they'll accumulate and because they interfere.

And they also can lead to then auto immunity, because the immune system gets confused by these foreign invaders in our body. Right? Yeah. Another major category is viruses.

I don't think you know it's right to have a conversation about toxicity in the body without also looking at the burden of different viruses in the thyroid, and that we do know that like H.

Pylori, Epstein-Barr virus, you know, probably we're going to find a ton of research about Covid 19 and the effects then that the viruses have on the thyroid, and its ability to sort of control, the metabolism of the body.

And then environmental there's, you know, pesticides, there's a lot of flame retardants. People don't realize, you know, the flame retardants on your mattresses, like in your clothes.

Those have things, that are, like PCD and PCBs, which are interesting enough. The backbone is either chlorine or bromine. And the reason that that's important is because chlorine and bromine, and then also fluoride, they interfere with, the thyroid because of iodine.

And so when we are using environmentally a lot of these chemicals that have a component that just interferes with the production and conversion of our thyroid hormones.

Sure. So that's like that competition for, for the. Right. So that being said, I'm just going to go off on a little tangent. Do you use iodine then if you find that someone has high toxicity in one of those areas to knock it off, you have to be careful.

Definitely. And honestly, this too is where I find a full thyroid panel really comes into play. Because not only, you know, when we talk about free T3, free T4 in the antibodies, is it important to sort of see how everything's working?

But it also will tell you the stress of the thyroid, you know, if that T3 is really suppressed. We've got to figure out why because it's for a reason.

But if you have antibodies, especially TPO antibodies, I go really slowly or not at all at first with the iodine like you want to clear some of that miscommunication before you just go in and start to provide some more iodine, because the body then can sometimes go into a hyper or, or chaotic state.

So yes, iodine does work, but it's definitely not just flood the body with iodine, right? Yeah. I think it's case by case. I know Brownstein just loves tons and tons of iodine, but I think that the, you know, there is, an art to medicine.

And definitely you don't want to be flooding in all kinds of situations. And, yeah, that's something I definitely encourage people to work with a practitioner.

Yeah, they're going to be using that because you can get yourself, into trouble. So, Doctor Megan, you you mentioned labs. Now this is a this is a big one, right?

Because you and I were both traditionally taught you screen with the TSA. It's reflex T4. If that's the case closed, you're fine, you're good, you're good, you're good.

But we find that people standing in front of us, they have thyroid symptoms A to Z, they're suffering, but they've been told just go, go off, go off on, go off with me.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I always say to people, it's sort of like if, you know, I got called in as a fire fire fighter to a mall and they said, there's a fire in the mall.

And I stepped in one store and said, oh, we're fine. Let's just go home. And it's on the other side of the Mall of America. Has Minnesota girls will use that analogy that it's not that we've ruled out a fire.

We just looked at one specific thing and said, okay, not a problem. But that whole panel is so important not only for treatment because there's different treatments, you know, which I know somebody else will talk about, but that the other fact is, is that, you know, it actually tells us what's going on.

So when you have TSA, which is coming from the brain, talking to the thyroid to make more of the inactive T4 and then converting over to the T3, you've got to see what all of those are doing because they're all communicating to each other.

And so in order to see really what's happening and how to treat and what to go after, you've got to figure out exactly what's happening with that whole conversion.

On top of that, you've got to figure out if there's antibodies, because an autoimmune condition is way different than just the fact that there's a communication problem and a conversion problem.

Right. And since we're talking about detox, I think it's also very important to then go right into the fact that where T3 is converted is mainly the liver.

And so that's where we come right back to. We've got to detoxed and we've got to do it right in order to get a the thyroid functioning. And then I also just wanted you because I definitely want the listeners to also realize the other things that I think are sort of surprising, that are very hard on the thyroid environmentally are, antibacterial soaps.

So they have something in them called, triclosan, which actually interferes with the thyroid. And we've known this for years and your body absorbs it.

So even though you feel like you're just putting it, you know, on your hands, your body is absorbing it. And that's one of the reasons why they can be pretty toxic.

Emfs. As we get exposed to more and more EMF and Wi-Fi, we've actually studied since the 1980s the effect of cellular devices on the thyroid. And that was when we weren't even in a very cellular world.

Like maybe we had, you know, wireless phones. And we've known since then that they have an effect. And, you know, even research in the early 2000 showed that even 33, you know, hours a month, which is, you know, a little bit over an hour a day, had really negative effects on the thyroid because it's very sensitive to radiation and changes in, that cellular energy around us.

And so emfs antibacterial soaps and gluten, you know, obviously diet and that plays a role with everything. But especially, you know, we know the link between gluten and thyroid, right?

Absolutely. We could do we could do just a little podcast on that. But yeah, staying on the topic of, of detoxification, you know, we were, exchanging some text because we're friends, you know, outside of this, and you talked about a book you're reading and all this information on detoxification, and then, you know, you're you have a very strong presence on Instagram.

And so I've been following the Instagram posts that you've been doing on detoxification. Tell us why that you think that we're we're doing it wrong. You know, kind of give us tonight go into that.

We've talked about this a little bit. Yeah. As friends. But one of the things that I've done during this pandemic is I've actually gone back old school.

And I tell people it's really sort of sent me even back, you know, to a lot of publications and information that's not sort of mainstream functional medicine.

And one of the things that I've really found out is that we don't detox, right? These days, I don't think for the most part, you know, I think we make it a little bit, too superficial, you know, let's talk about.

Okay, let's, you know, just get the liver going, and we can see that this is progressing, too, because when you and I probably entered functional medicine, we just put everybody on liver cleanses, like, gave, you know, supplements and, you know, shakes and things like that.

Then we've got sort of smart about this and said, okay, now we need binders, we need something to take it out. We got to get the bile going. We've got to get binders and we need this and that.

But I think along the way, you know, we've even missed some of the really important ways to detox. And when we look at cellular detox, a big part of it is fats.

And the interesting thing is to really look at our society and how we've gotten even away from fats, like even healthy individuals that, you know, we've sort of still been in this 1980s craze of low fat diet and that, you know, we then have put into our diet a lot of processed, rancid fats.

And we're getting away from that, which is good. But when we look at this, it's really about that cellular wall in the cellular membrane, which is made up of fat.

And then a lot of these fat soluble toxins that attach on and we talk about it accumulating in our fat cells, but it also accumulates in our cell membranes.

And so we can actually use sauna and sweat and niacin and binder, and things like that to actually get the cell to release and get rid of the fats, which get rid of the toxins, which actually then can change that whole composition versus just sort of going up and cleaning by just going after the liver.

Right? I totally agree, the cellular membrane really is the brain of the cell. And it's some in some aspects and that we for a long time we're missing the fact that, yes, a lot of these toxins are fat soluble.

But but the cellular membranes that make up every single one of our cells are just swimming in with these toxins. And so I am I'm a big believer, from the school of human and shoemaker of of oil changes when they say oil changes, you're giving copious amounts.

I shouldn't say copious appropriate amounts. I love the word copious yourself. Copious. I mean, you know, it's like, you know, we look good, we look vibrant.

So, you know, looking at the, the fossil coli and and talk about that, talk about using butyrate to help burn off some of those because you can kind of have a day off from that to talk about that a little bit.

Yeah. So I mean, I think a key part of it is short acting niacin. I think it's a key that a lot of people don't use. And the reason why I and this is, Hubbard's work and now it's, Doctor Root's work, you know, from the 1970s, late 1970s on, but with the niacin, you actually get this really cool effect that we never talk about, which you get this lipolysis, which is a release of fat after the flushing.

But it has to be the short acting. It's got to be the flushing niacin. So the nicotinic acid. Okay, okay. Yep. And it can have any of the sustained release aspect of it.

Right. So and a lot of our supplements have gotten away from that because they have developed. Like it's not necessarily fun to flash. You do get that itching redness burning.

But the cool thing is, is that then a couple hours later they've proven that what you're then doing is you're releasing the fat. And that's why like it's one of the only supplements, that we know that can actually raise HDL.

Your good cholesterol for the longest time we've known is really only exercise, diet and, short acting niacin. But it's because of the fact that it has such a, positive effect on your fat and fat cells and fat metabolism.

So by taking it, you're then able to flush out and sort of mobilize the fat and then by then taking in the good fats, you can start to then replace this fat that's in your body that's connected to all of these toxins with the good fats that you're taking in, and then bind it out because it's all gotta come out through your gut.

So you've got to have a healthy gut. The I think the, you know, butyrate helps in a couple different ways in the fact that it helps to be able to detox, but it also helps your gut be able to then get it out versus then again, what we're trying not to do is just recycle and make this an endless cycle of toxicity.

Sure. That's great. So to get a little bit more granular, what's the timing of the sauna and the short acting nice and what do you like. And then the administration of cooling.

So and I do this a little bit individual for each person because of the fact that, you know, when you look at this, it's going to depend to on how toxic you are, like your overall vitality and what you can take.

I start people really slow on the short acting, and you usually want to wait somewhere between the 2 to 3 hour window before then you exercise or do some kind of lymphatic work, whether that's dry brushing, rebounding, you know, machines, something like that.

And then get into, a sauna. Or if some people don't have sauna, infrared is best. Hubbard used all dry sauna, but he put people in for about 45 minutes.

With an infrared. You can be in from 10 to 20 and get great results. But the infrared and, you know, low level laser, which is also great for and red light, which is great for the thyroid.

It's fantastic to use too, because you're getting such an increase in cellular activity. And so then you usually want to put them into some time of sweating to pull out heavy metals and things like that about, two and a half to three hours after they take the niacin.

It's good during this time to, to be taking things that help with your bile because bowels what's going to push out that fat soluble through your gut.

So that could be anything from to cut a fast potato choline. Quicksilver has a great, supplement called liver sauce that I love to use. And then you want to about an hour after you come out of the sauna, 30 minutes to an hour after, take a binder.

Some people, because I know we're getting into a a big time frame. Take the binder right after. That's fine. And you're going to want to take the electrolyte during, like, electrolytes during the sauna.

And then the fat. You can really then take 2 or 3 hours afterwards. You can take it, you know, with dinner, but you just want to make sure to be putting in, you know, good fats to give me flaxseed, chia seed, hemp.

You know, I love, C60 and using those oils, you know, fast potato choline is great for the actual cell membrane. So you want to take, like, a, plethora and a copious amounts of fats and oils.

Sure. And so for those people who already have issues with their gallbladder, don't have a gallbladder, what is the strategy looks like for someone who, again, is maybe eating the omega six oils or eating unhealthy and you're trying to switch them over anything above and beyond that, what you just said to kind of get them used to instead of, you know, like just bombarding them and having issues.

So just then push the fats with meals and take a digestive enzyme with ox bile. Either take smaller amounts of fat during the day so you're not putting a big load on the gallbladder or, you know, just make sure that, you're taking in more good fats with your meals and just take a digestive enzyme with ox bile, because that will help the bile to be able to actually then move, which is great, because that then is going to detox as it goes down the gut.

And you're not going to have the side effects of pain and whatnot. They can come from the gallbladder being overactive. Perfect. Okay, so to sum up, you know what we started talking about and how it's not all doom and gloom.

There's things that you can do. Can you kind of go through again and highlight the things that we can do based on the the environment that we live on, live in?

And then kind of summarize maybe your best tip this summer for just staying, staying healthy and keeping your cellular detoxification going. Yeah. So I think when it comes to the thyroid and just detoxification in general, the number one thing is you've got to make sure that you're moving your bowels right.

And so I always tell people like that's a number one thing because that's going to be how we detox out these fat soluble toxins. So that's number one first and foremost.

And then if not obviously magnesium vitamin C, using products like I love ortho molecular, Super Aloe, things that will just get that moving. Because what we're trying to do too, is to move the toxins through, not to just recycle.

Right. You know, there's a lot of great like, this is the reason to eat organic is because that way your body's not accumulating heavy metals that are in our soil, pesticides, things like that.

Be smarter with what you're putting on your skin. Like use organic products, really move over and, you know, make those gradual changes to make your home, and the products that you're using on a day to day basis more organic and natural.

Definitely take the aluminum out of your, deodorant, because that aluminum has a direct effect. Avoid this is much easier to do now, which is great, but avoid second hand smoke.

And that's a lot of cadmium. As you know, and I think we both agree on this, a lot of people have to start by looking in their mouth. Yeah. You know, the mouth and dental health is so important.

And so if you have mercury, if you have infections, things like that, a lot of the culprit comes from the mouth. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. Filter your water. Spend the money.

There's really there's lesser cost filtration systems than there used to be. But, you know, filter your water because you don't want that fluoride. You don't want those other contaminants that especially are in city water that will interfere with the function of your thyroid and will lead to, more toxic cells in general.

Yeah. And even the, even the EPA's worried about the level of PFAs right now. I mean, like, very much so this is a very important thing that we're we're just looking at the tip of the iceberg.

So I completely agree with you. I mean, just filter your water by filtered water, make that a priority. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's just such a great investment.

Also, you know, there are things Brazil nuts. I'm a big fan of those for the thyroid because they have selenium. Actually, hot lemon water is great for the thyroid, and great for detoxification.

And so that's something that's easy to add in, especially lemon water in general. But warm lemon water, especially, celery juice because it has a lot of nutrients is another thing.

I know the medical medium loves it, but there are some great things about celery juice. And then I also am a big believer in, a lot of the energy things and more cellular energy things that we have out there.

The red lights, in clinic, I use a lot of frequency specific microcurrent, low level cold laser, things like that. But that really helps with the thyroid because of the fact that you can really get those cells to heal and, rejuvenate with those kind of therapies.

And so I think it's a good idea to, to invest in a red light and use it at home as often as you can. That one right there. Yeah. There. There's the Jew.

There's the Jew right there. Yeah, totally. Things we agree on. That's right. We have so many toys that are in common. But I do agree that some of that extraneous sometimes you just need the extraneous energy to really kickstart and really get you going.

And, you know, they're, they're they're not just red lights that someone marketed really well. There's science behind all of this. And it's really it's really strong.

So Doctor Megan, you have been so great. So much information. I love the the cellular detoxification aspect of it because again, it's not just liver and liver cleanses.

Do your gallbladder cleanses. It's deeper than that. All the tips that you gave us on the niacin, I did not know that I do take short acting, but I didn't have that that like fall assists, information.

So I really appreciate you being here today. If someone wanted to contact you or your office, how do we get a hold of you? Well, it's probably easiest to find us on social media.

So when Agoura Health is the clinic. I also do have an Instagram page. Doctor Megan Kearsley. And then you can also find us at one Agora health.com. Okay. Perfect. Well, thank you so much.

Have a great rest of your day. Yeah. You too. Bye, Kelly. Bye.

Meaghan Kirschling, DC, MS, MSN

Why You’re Detoxing the Wrong Way