I am so excited to introduce you to our next guest, Mirjam Paninski. Mirjam actually grew up meditating in ashrams, meditation centers, both in Europe and in India.

She is the Consciousness Programs Director at EFT universe. Mirjam holds a master's degree from Brown University and has a forthcoming book on Birth and Womb Trauma and How We can Heal those early life stories and change the entire course of our lives.

Both Mirjam and I mentor people seeking to develop their full spiritual potential through a program called The Short Path to Oneness. Find out more at theshortpath.com Well, the wonderful Mirjam Paninski.

Oh, thank you Dawson. What a blessing to be here with you. And I'm so curious as to what initiated your interest in this really unusual and fundamental part of our lives.

Womb trauma, birth trauma, perinatal prenatal trauma. It's a that's a good question. And I think it all really came together serendipitously and through an inner calling, as I was, you know, pursuing as you know, I was both pursuing, pursuing my academic studies, my research towards my PhD at Brown.

I was a fellow at an institute at Brown, called the Collaborative Humanities Institute, the Kogut Institute, with a mellon fellowship. But then I was also felt so called, as you know, with the work with you and PhD and being an EFT practitioner and really kind of like making a hands on change.

And I felt that the that my academic pursuit within literature and philosophy and psychology was interesting. But, I think I felt there was a lot of talking and, and not a lot of walking and not a lot of kind of like a hands on application on how to really kind of make a shift and, and, and change something and interestingly, what happened then was my personal story of giving birth to my second child and the US that my first born born was born in, in, in Europe.

And it was a very holistic birth with a midwife. And I was, you know, I was privileged and lucky enough to be raised in a way that made me very aware of how to how to make a conscious choice of how one wants to envision one the birth of a child.

And I could pursue that, and I what had the means to pursue that? And I had the back up and the support system to pursue that. and I also did the same thing in the U. S., but it was very different, and it was also different by the stories that were surrounding me, especially because I was, you know, I was I was deeply entrenched, entrenched in critical race theory and critical black theory with amazing feminist critical black philosophers and theorists, and also with a lot of friends and sisters around me, of color that, even though they were highly educated, they had a very different experience of the birth of their children.

And, and I felt a calling and I also felt a responsibility living in the U. S. now, as opposed to Europe. to dive into this history and dive into into the importance of what is the history of slavery and what is the continuation of that history.

And some of the continuation of this history happens in the birth room. And, that's part of the research I have been doing. And it was again partially inspired by friends and sisters around me that had birth stories where they were not empowered and where they were not where they were treated in a way that was different from a white woman.

And it is very clear that, you know, we have numbers that speak for it. We have numbers that say, that, you know, black infant and mother death and mortality rates are so much higher than that of white women, especially, as well as Indigenous and Hispanic and Latinx women.

So, that's really where this it was more something that came to me as something that I was looking to do, but as it was unfolding that this was something I needed to pay attention to.

it was there was no point. There was no choice for me anymore. It you know, it was a point of no return. And my research, so to say. Well, and again, that is an issue that's probably off of most people's radar.

We are thinking about. And yet it infuses our society as those people grow up, as we all grow up, as we're all immersed in this, this culture. And so what, what can we do to begin to sensitize ourselves to these kinds of issues and make them part of our collective conversation?

Well, first of all, it's very interesting to start with oneself and listen to this story is a narrative that one has been told and has been telling themselves about, birth and also obstetrics and gynecology.

I know it's something that we don't want to think about too much, because birth is also a little bit of a messy, business, so to say. And it feels so intimate and it feels like something that is, as always, also in history has been kind of like shoved towards the edges of society more than something that is at the center point, which used to be different, by the way, in ancient history, where that the, the, the woman giving birth was much more kind of like centralized in a, in a group rather than kind of like today where it's like, let's put it in a sterile room in a hospital bed.

So, thinking about their own, your own, your own story and what you heard and what you heard. Your body also, as a woman is capable of doing and is not capable of doing.

it starts also with, for instance, very simple things as, the rate of women receiving epidurals in this country is extremely high. And, and there is there's a consequence to that.

If you give an epidural at a certain point that's too early, you're risking your risk of having a cesarean section. Is just so much higher. And it's also coming from, again, a history and a story.

We can't endure this pain. We can't move through this pain. It's too much. We are too weak. We are too this. Our bodies cannot do this. Let's take the easy, the so-called easier way.

And while there is nothing I, I, there is no judgment, about any woman receiving an epidural for their birth whatsoever. Just listen to what that where that comes from.

Listen to where that starts and see where that narrative really and truly began. Because the possibility that that narrative, that story did not start with you is, is the first, the first, the first step for me and then see and then maybe look what's around you, look what's around you in terms of who is, who is who is who is telling them stories to themselves around you and paying attention, possibly to, to your local medical medical network and things like this.

You know, you won't be able to change the medical system as a single person. But what you do, what you can't change, is the story that you have about yourself and the possibility of the Latin x of the black of the indigenous woman that may live next door having a very different, story and a very different experience than you having is very likely, you know, so paying attention to that and being in conversation about that, starting a dialog, starting connection with people that you may not feel called to connect with in the first place on that level, getting these, dialogs, these conversations from the from the peripheries of the society into the center of, of of our conversations, I think is a good start.

To move this into the personal level. I'm thinking about what we might remember about, well, in births and what may have happened at our own births. I was having a phone conversation with my grandchildren recently.

My two of my my grandchildren, they're both girls and they're they're pre-teens. And we're asking about our first memories. And they were sharing. Oh, my first memory was in when I was three years old, and I was really good friends with this girl.

And and they were sharing these really sweet stories about what their first memories were. But our memories don't go back that far usually. We don't usually remember our birth and certainly be able to remember what was happening inside the womb.

What are some of the signs as you work with clients, that there might be prenatal or perinatal trauma present in their lives? Yes. prenatal, perinatal pre-verbal all of this is kind of like kind of like goes it goes together.

And it's usually with persistent and sticky issues and blockages that somehow working through sessions and sessions cannot be resolved by accessing a conscious memory.

So, usually when there's something that, you know, that is to be resolved within, you know, yeah, a time in your life potentially six and older, there's going to be some connection and some glimpses to some sort of, a memory, even if it's just like little, little freckles or little, little glimpses of, of these memories.

But if some if there is an issue that persists and a language, so to say that process that doesn't feel like it matches also what you usually see from the client, where you feel like there is like something that that derives from their usual patterns, their usual way of thinking.

They're usually a way of processing and processing language, where sometimes there isn't even any language, where sometimes there is kind of like just a feel that they can't, that they can't locate in any way.

It's, usually something that starts within the womb, that starts within, potentially a birth story. Or again, in utero is a very common, common thing because there are so many connections.

The baby, of course, we know today, receives so much of the stress and the emotions of that the mother is processing during, during their, during their pregnancies.

So, that's usually when, usually when language either is distorted or fails or where there is like no clarity in terms of like, what can we connect to a very sticky issue.

That's usually when we start to look pre-verbal pre-birth, in utero, in womb birth stories. That's when we usually start. Start with that. And you give us an example of someone you worked with who had that kind of an issue and how you were able to identify it, and then how it might have been resolved.

Like was there movement? Was there progress? Was there healing? As you've worked with people, have you found that they can get to these things and eventually to release all the emotional energy and behavioral patterns that are bound up in those early pre pre pre pre traumas. Yes.

yeah. I mean the beautiful thing about is a technique like EFT, as you know, Dawson, is that we don't necessarily need to have a memory to interrupt a pattern.

really, all we need is, is, is accessing a, where the body keeps the score as we as we know, as we say, you know. So where, where does this pattern keep.

Where does this pattern repeat in your body? And by accessing that, that piece that that part in your body, we, we have, you know, and by also opening your subconscious to the possibility that your issue, your trauma is about something that you can't remember, because that's also a problem with our brain, right?

Our brain tries to to, to to solve something by looking for the threat, so to say. But if there is no memory, so to say, if there's no location of the threat, our brain won't calm down, but it will look for the threat everywhere, basically.

But by telling our brain, by telling our giving our body the impulse, hey, this is something you may not remember, but it's still real. we can interrupt that pattern.

And there is very is beautiful story that, that I can that I can share. And one of the stories I think is, is, is a recent client of mine that has, and, and an adoption story and not just in adoption stories of her, apparently when her mother was pregnant with her, her mother was given that the information that your child may be very, very, maybe very disabled and will have huge problems made to die soon after the birth.

And the mother already knew. So the mother already started to reject that baby in utero, and she knew she wasn't going to keep it, in terms that she was going to give it up for, for adoption.

So needless to say that there was a, an intrinsic that this, this beautiful little girl who happened to be healthy and wonderful and, even if it weren't to be healthy.

But either way, it was going to be a wonderful child. Way. Right? She, she grew up with issues of feeling rejected, of emotional, emotional abandonment, of unworthiness.

and we could access this. We could access actually through EFT and through envisioning and imagining herself and that little herself as that little infant in utero that received already so much rejection, that would have needed to feel this wholeness and this embrace and this unconditional love from her mother in utero just by imagining going there.

And we could resolve these these issues of rejection and unworthiness completely changed her complete outlook of her life in terms of like, her business, her, her her partnerships, her her relationship with her children.

She has children today. So, this is just one of the stories where we can really kind of access by just using also the power of our visualization and imagination to get our subconscious to look at certain things that we usually wouldn't look at to interrupt these patterns.

And how do you introduce EFT emotional freedom techniques to a client who hasn't been exposed to the techniques before? That's a good that's a good, question.

I haven't had to do this in a long time to. Usually people coming in wanting to work with me that already know they already know what it is. But I think, and there's various ways it really depends on what your audience is.

Right. in in a more academic setting, you use a different kind of phrasing than you would use. And, in, in a setting where you're around people who are attuned with energy healing or who are interested in energy healing.

but I think to say that that what I usually do say is that there is and I do like to say a few more words. Of course, there's like simple things to say that's so simple.

Stress reduction technique and stress is the foundation of everything that kind of harms our system. So this is really a, a technique that very quickly resolves.

And, stops a stress pattern in your body and allows you to shift. But on a, on a larger scale, I like to say that EFT is a technique that counter conditioned these, these deeply ingrained patterns that we thought to be so hard wired that we thought to be so sticky by exposing ourselves to these issues consciously in a safe setting in EFT session, and at the same time soothing our nervous system.

And that counter conditioning of the exposure in a safe setting with a certified and with a capable practitioner, with the soothing of the nervous system.

At the same time, really changes the outlook of, of where you're headed. And that's that's its power. That's it. Simple power is is the exposure with the counter conditioning of, and of tapping on these eight on this just just on these eight points of your body, you activate all the 20 meridians in your body, either directly or indirectly.

And it has such an impact on, on your nervous system to just activate these meridians. Even as we know, Western medicine has acknowledged that there is a meridian system which is called it the primal vascular system.

They can't call it meridians for some reason, but we know that it's there. So, that's basically how how I would how I would introduce EFT. I want to take a short break for you to journal here.

So as been listening to Mirjam, there are two things she said that really struck me. And I want you now to read your journal or something else to write with, and just ask yourself a couple of questions.

One of the things Mirjam said is she looks for a pattern repeating in your body, your you feel something in your body in certain situations, and you often predictably feel this.

So ask yourself right now. Where in my body do I feel sensation when certain things occur? What is my predictable body response in certain situations?

And it may be a puzzling one. It might be one you don't fully understand, but you feel that way regularly in certain situations. Just for example, maybe you're alone and you feel a certain situate feeling in your body, maybe with people and you feel a certain thing in your body, maybe with you, with people you don't know or with people you do know, or maybe in certain settings, perhaps outside in nature, or perhaps in small spaces.

There are all kinds of triggers, and they'll be very different with different people, but there'll be some feeling, you'll feel some sensation. It could be a sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach.

I know I worked with one physician, one doctor, and he said this bowling ball in my intestines, very vivid. I, concept image he had there be like, this big brown bowling ball in his intestines.

And another another doctor I worked with, actually a doctor in Europe. I was on one of my tours there, and she had this, this, this, this, yellow colored rod across my shoulders, holding my shoulders rigid so it could be anywhere in your body, but just reflect now and make a note in your journal, what is that repetitive response that tells you your body is keeping the score?

So let's take three slow breaths. Why do you journal? Now again, you'll go back and look at that journal entry later on, and you may make more notes, but at least you've captured the idea right now of this repeating situation and the physical sensation.

The second thing I want to ask you to reflect on that Mirjam said earlier that I thought it was so striking. Was our brain might be hunting for a threat everywhere.

So our brain is just stuck in this threat assessment mode, and it's looking all around us at all times where is the threat coming from? Are you like that?

Does your brain function that way? Are there situations that trigger that? Is it universal? Is it something you always have an uneasy feeling about? That there could be some threat coming up from some unknown direction to get you.

So just reflect on that for a moment. And if you know you're in that space of always looking for a threat, then make a note of it and we can explore it further.

You will be doing some more reflection here in our time together. You can always go and work with one of the clinical certified practitioners that Mirjam mentioned.

It's really handy, helpful to have a practitioner in your corner, somebody even go to when you're stuck, when you don't know where to go next, when you're faced with one of those issues, you can't serve yourself.

So make sure you go check out your friendly clinical practitioners. Make sure they are trained and certified in clinical. Do your work yourself. EFT is wonderful for doing our work ourselves.

Tap on those acupressure points yourself and make sure that for the big stuff, you have somebody as your support system. Mirjam, thank you so much for those really crucial key ideas.

And you mentioned that that client, through tapping through EFT and working on the issues at that fundamental level, completely changed her outlook on life.

completely. Yes, completely. And this interesting thing is the other thing that changes because it's kind of like strange in the beginning to say, well, but what does it mean to connect with myself in utero, or connect with myself to a memory that may or may not have happened?

it doesn't matter so much. That's what I kind of like. Also try to say it doesn't matter also whether, you know, don't block yourself by thinking, oh, this may not have happened and now I'm just making something up.

but you are giving your brain a reference, and there is a reason why this reference is coming up. I believe that even with memories that we that we come to intuitively and that we envision or that we imagine are that there is a true core to these memories, and that's the reference that we're giving, that we're giving our brain.

And that's the power really of if t because these things were inaccessible for us 20, 30 years ago in psychotherapy, these memories were doomed to be, to, to, you know, create these hardwired patterns and issues that we never were going to resolve. Right.

but that's not true anymore. We can actually access these patterns, these subconscious blockages that are stored in our body through, you know, through techniques like EFT that allows us to break patterns through also envisioning, imagining, going to places that we usually wouldn't go to with our conscious mind.

So, yes, absolutely changed completely. And then how does this work together, this kind of trauma release, the practice of tapping? How does it work together with spirituality?

well, you know that that's my that's, that's a dear topic to me, and that's a dear topic to you. And that's one of the things that connects us deeply, I think, and I believe, and I know you do too, is just that EFT if and if done intentionally, can just be, an accelerator to, to more depth, to more awakening.

it's also as it's an accelerating practice to clearing your trauma. It there's just less and less blockages within you that keep you from feeling a sense of connection to whatever it is that you feel connected to, whatever you call any kind of like how a higher power or universal power or God or whatever you may call it, but it just erases so many of these narratives that are between us and feeling connected.

whether it's to people or, again, to a higher source or a kind of our spiritual practice to within, that I just find this really this and I've, we've, we've talked about this several times, but I truly believe that the connection and the combination of tapping of EFT, tapping and meditation is an absolute game changer.

And I've seen it and I combine it also in my own practice and my group work. I combine meditation, awakening practices with with EFT. So deep trauma release and, just, how profound.

We kind of, like, experience these shifts just within one hour, if we clear any kind of, like, subconscious or conscious thoughts and patterns and traumatic interruptions, this constant interruptions, before we kind of access these, these higher states of consciousness, it's just incredibly profound.

And I also believe that to live a a true spiritual life of connection and to explore spirituality, we need to clean up. We need to clean up our trauma.

We need to clean up our patterns because our body's going to keep dragging us down. We can practice some awaken awakened moments and some great meditation moments, but we'll just be keep spinning backwards and backwards.

if we don't clean up what our body keeps showing up. And I think that's also that EFT allows us to live an embodied spirituality. not a disconnected one, but an embodied spirituality that encompasses the sacredness of our body.

yeah. So if you if you are experiencing those transcendent moments, you're plugging into the hole. It is you're having a wonderful meditation. And then, as Mirjam says, you get sucked back down again.

And that probably is the state, most people in the start of their meditation practice who are hitting these states, glorious states of perfection sometimes.

And then you get sucked out and often that's a trigger for a lot of shame and guilt on the part of meditators. I know. For me, it was it was that way for for decades.

I hit those states every once in a while and then I just go back to the same patterns. And I was so disappointed with myself. It's like, why can't I sustain this? What's wrong with me?

You know, I am having this elevated experience. I'm one with you all it is. And then suddenly I'm reenacting some blind, old, stupid, reactive, annoyed, resentful pattern, whatever it might be.

And so I was so, I felt like I was a fraud, a failure as a meditator, as spiritual person for many, many years because I would hit those those places as probably you have as well as probably we all have and then get sucked down again and just see, you know, what I'm saying here is that that's just a reminder we need to heal.

And you're saying when you tap when you use EFT, it's a game changer for meditation because you're then clearing a lot of that and those body triggers that, that those old sensations that might be really early in your life that they may have arisen from that pre-verbal or prenatal or perinatal stage.

They once you clear them, they're no longer going to be the impediments. You're much more likely to be able to reach those elevated states and stay there and sustain them and trigger all the neurological growth that makes them part of your regular life and awareness.

So it's so important to do both these things and just make a note if you need to. Again, in your journal, hit those elevated states. And when you find yourself spiraling down, tap, that's the time to release those patterns, especially the ones you feel in your body that are pulling you back to both these things.

And you're much more likely, as Mirjam says, to, to make progress, well, able to go and hop to a whole different topic now. And I've known you for so many years, and yet I've never thought to ask you this question.

And I'd love to know. Curious what that. Im little scared It's really, open ended question, though. And, you mentioned that we then move into these states where we connect with our higher power.

We make all that God, we make all of the universe. There, all these names for it. But when you're in that state, say you're in that state of connection.

How do you perceive that experience and that, that that place you go to to be. Yeah, that's where the place where you're at a place where there is no words anymore, where it doesn't matter anymore what you called, whatever it is that you're, that you're connected with.

before it doesn't matter. The name doesn't matter anymore. yes. And it's it's it really is. It's ineffable. It's it's it's all, pervade. It's an all pervading oneness, a sense where.

Nothing. Nothing is harmful and nothing matters and nothing, nothing. You're just. Yeah. You're just in a in a bliss really is the only word that does resonate with this.

You're in a bliss where you are connected with with everything. With everything that is with, with a profound sense of love, a profound sense of, Everything is taking care of everything is, is is part of, of a plan that I cannot control with my human mind.

and it's just, a state where you think the best word to describe it is, is you. You dissolve your dissolve, you dissolve in and and a greater and a greater oneness.

And then the greater being that. And as again, you've probably had that experience sometimes in meditation. Is it wonderful to be there. And part of what we're aiming for in our time here today is to give you pointers on how to be there often, maybe even regularly, maybe even every day or almost every day.

So imagine a life for yourself where that is your new normal. Your new normal. You go there every day. You know how to get there. And when you are there, you can sustain those states again.

We all hit those states every once in a while. But can you maintain that state of elevated awareness? And obviously with practice, it gets easier. With the right techniques, it gets easier.

And there are things that facilitate you getting there. But notice what those are and then do more of that and spend more time there. Every moment you spend there, you're wiring your nervous system to be able to get there sooner next time.

So it's powerful to practice being in those states and and staying there. Another question, Marianne. I get about you personally is, how long between when you sit down to meditate and you find yourself there?

How long does it take you to reach that state? Usually meditation. it varies, but on on a regular basis it will be about 15 20 minutes, I would say. Yeah, that's actually the time that Andrew Newberg, who is, neuroscientist I've done some, some projects with, says it takes meditative as he says, it's about 20 minutes.

novices usually can get there in 30 to 40 minutes. Experienced meditators can usually get there in about 20 minutes. And, that's my my experience too.

But I sit down. I would love to be there in one of two minutes. But just letting all the clutter clear out of your mind, bring your mind back to focus.

It wanders. Bring it back to focus. It wanders. Bring it back to focus it wanders. And bring it back to focus again. And you do that often enough. And after about 15 20 minutes, you find yourself in that state, and then again you sustain that state.

Or as long as you are meditating and then very, how long do you meditate for once you do hit that, that marker. It depends on when my children wake up in the morning and interrupt that state, but I, I, I am an, as you know, and I'm an early riser, so I try to get meditation time early in the morning.

So I try to rise between 5 and 530 and pretty much straight away try to I do get up. I get out of bed and do place myself in a meditation setting because the temptation, if you just sit up in bed is just too big, too, too large to kind of like, swoop it back down again.

But then it's, if I can an hour and an hour and a half, that's that would be the ideal time for me in the morning to stay in and in there. And again, sometimes, you know, in some as we used, we were saying sometimes you drop out of it and sometimes there is these swirls that kind of like take you down.

And sometimes you may be in these life challenges. And that again, where if tea comes in and says, these are just signs that there is just something that needs to be cleared up and that's okay.

And EFT also and meditation teaches us to embrace these moments with compassion and with self-care. And, and we can take care of it. So it's just our, our nervous system revealing where we aren't free.

Yes. The great gift of showing us where we need to grow. May not feel like a gift at the time, but it is a gift if we make use of it. And then, learn to release those those blocks.

And then. Are you using techniques? I know you grew up in an ashram. Please do share a little bit about that with you. Use some of those techniques, but you still have a relationship with some of those, those ideas and, and those streams, tradition.

Yes. And and again, that comes in to kind of like the various practice that you can all kind of encompass and whatever your, your daily practice may look like and that may vary.

But, some of the preparatory things that I do like to do some day, some mornings is, chanting is mantras and chanting, and if you don't know our mantra, chanting, it may be a simple, sound.

actually, Doctor Wayne Dyer introduced also the meditation as the all sound that connects to connects us to divine beings like Buddha, Allah, God. he kind of like a Krishna that the eyes like in a lot of these, in a lot of these beings that you may feel connected to, are a lot of these manifestations.

so mantra is definitely something that I do, I do use, I do use breathing techniques. I do use sometimes, just my hands to kind of like clear and work on certain chakras and certain areas in my systems that feel a little bit more congested or blocked just.

And the hand movement, which is just a kind of like a circular hand movement to stimulate the chakra movement or putting my hand on a chakra just stimulates again, me putting loving awareness and attention to an area that may need a little bit more, TLC, so to say, that day.

So those are some of the practices that I use to when I feel like, especially when I feel my brain is especially cluttered. One morning or one evening, I actually meditate twice a day.

I think that evening meditation has just gotten as important for me as the morning meditation. so that's that's those are some of the techniques I use to kind of like clear the Kashi, so to say.

other things are also what I do in the evenings now is actually I take, a salt foot baths a foot soak every evening. again, just another technique to kind of consciously help you drain whatever is, whatever is left.

Whatever's remnant from the day, is is is one of the techniques I love to do before, before bed, for instance. And that was also one of the techniques that I grew up with actually, is is taking a daily, salt foot baths, ideally with sea salt.

That's not what I'm familiar with. You just use like a regular a small basin or something to fill it up with like yes or. So one shares in the technique or in the tradition that I was raised is you use cold water if you want to cool down basically the right side.

And if you're feeling more lethargic or kind of like left side, it basically you're using warm water and it's just a 15 20 minutes soak and you can use quite a lot of salt.

Again ideally sea salt. And it's just like kind of like a lymphatic drainage as well I guess. but it's it, it it really works well for me in the evening, especially with just some like cool water, not cold, but cool water to take off.

Any thoughts, any overactivity, any overwhelm from especially from the right side of your chakra system is is a for me, a wonderful technique? What other physical practices do you use?

I use, I do yoga, but I also do love walking meditations. So if you are living somewhere close to nature or to a park, especially in times when you feel maybe more overwhelmed or where sitting down in silence is something that feels a little bit too too much to do, of, to, to go for a walk and just being conscious with what is around you, what's that's what surrounds you with your steps, with your body.

So, that's one of the, the physical practices that I use. And then, honestly, Dawson, I, we have a trampoline outside. My kids love the trampoline. And to really get some energy out, we just go on a trampoline in the evening for like 15, 20 minutes, and it just pits you to a dope.

and it is amazing. And that's one of the physical practice. It's. I don't even need a full size trampoline. You can just use a small rebounder. That's just a little tiny trampoline.

But I know Louise Hay also used the trampoline till the day she died. I think every day she went on a trampoline, I heard, Yeah. So find physical practices and let's do, another journaling exercise here.

So again, Mirjam and I will take some deep breaths. Funny. Do this some slow breaths and write down a couple of physical practices that you can commit to to help support your inner growth, your release, and your meditation.

So just make a note of some practices you'll commit to. Again, these are ones your your only thinking about. What might you actually commit to doing on a regular basis?

Very. Mirjam, I know that in our short part one is program where you mentor so many people. I know that one of the persisted issues you described crops up for people is a sense of unworthiness.

And that really surprised me when you said, I want to lead tapping circles and tap out of a sense of unworthiness. And I now actually done that is one of your one of your tapping circles.

And it's profound. And people get so much out of it. Why do you suppose this is such a fundamental issue in people's spiritual growth, and how can we move past it?

it's an interesting question. I think it is. It is a lot of it is a generational pattern, actually a generational trauma that may not even be our own, but our, forefathers, our ancestors, previous generations, they grew up, you know, even in the West.

You know, we grew up, they grew up, at least my grandparents, you know, grew up in, Second World War. They they grew up in a, in a, in a very Christian, in a very Catholic setting.

I think, that's part of a lot of it is kind of like where spirituality is tied to a sense of it's fundamental guilt. fundamental. you basically, constantly proving yourself, but you that, that there's actually no use in proving yourself, but because the human body as is, is fundamentally dirty and tainted, and we are just basically here to, to, suffer and, and pay our dues basically for, for, for the fact that we are a dirty human being.

So I think that there is a lot of these, Christian and old religious narratives that go into that unworthiness, but and that's the other thing, and that's where, again, where EFT is just so wonderful.

It is, you know, it's coming from, from childhood trauma. And, some of the people that go into that come into our short path and also say, you know, but I have an I've actually grown up in a, in a, in a family that looked very well loaded, that looked very good on paper.

You know, kind of like white fenced family. but there may have been something like a continued emotional neglect, or there may be something, where again, there was like a sense of an undercurrent, a sense of, unworthiness in the mother or in the father or a kind of like financial instability that was always kind of like followed by a, a pattern of self-blame and judgment.

So all of these little things may lead to an accumulation that can lead to this sense of this sense of unworthiness. And again, it goes back to kind of like listen to the stories, listen to the wording of, how you've how that unworthiness is phrased.

Listen to who resonates when you, when you when you hear yourself saying these statements, when you hear yourself saying these statements of unworthiness, whose voice is resonating there really is it really your own voice?

and it is normal for us as growing children to mirror our parents. We need to have this unconscious loyalty to our parents as, as, Now the name is fleeting.

Me who? Family constellations. Therapy. The name, has just has is somehow not appearing for me right now. But he called this the Family Constellations founder called it, unconscious loyalty, which is a normal response in our system, because in our brain, we don't want to be abandoned by the tribe.

So we do need to mirror and adjust to our parents patterns to stay in the tribe. and a lot of this is entrenched by unworthiness. so that's kind of like something to kind of also, again, listen to and again, tapping has just been so profound.

And the short path for us in the group to collectively realize we all have this. We all of so many of us have this unworthiness issue. we're not alone with this.

We're not isolated with this, and we can actually use our collective consciousness and our energy together while tapping to actually clear those patterns and stories, realizing they are not even our own.

So let's, let's release them. Yes. And do you think that that, group tapping can be as powerful as individual tapping? So on the short part, one is reading these group tapping sessions.

those cannot be as effective as 1 to 1 sessions. They can. Absolutely. the group tapping that we do in the short path and that I have kind of designed especially for the short path, is also there is also there's of course, intuition involved, but there's also a lot of research involved in terms of like, how long does it take for us to process and emotion in the body?

How long do I need to stay for instance, with and a wounded part or an inner child part for this to really deeply process and then release? And, we are not as isolated as we think or as unique we may think we are.

And when we are in trauma, the universe, that the human experience is really a universal one. And, and we have actually managed to design, sort of a group tapping experience that allows us to go into depth in a way that actually is very similar to a one on one session.

And actually not just that, it also makes use of the fact that people realize, wow, I'm in a collective of other amazing, loving human beings that experience the same thing.

So there's a healing effect that that kind of resonates, that goes out from each and every person, bringing in their vulnerability and bringing in their healing capacity into a group setting that we don't have in a one on one session.

so some of these people actually say, who's off? Who've also experienced one on one sessions that these group sessions have been more, profound than the one on one sessions.

And I think it's not necessarily because I'm not because I'm special as a facilitator there, but I think because of that group healing, energy that emanates from everyone around that allows this to happen.

Now, when you see one person healing, you know, that's possible for me to come. Yeah, the reflection of it. I'm also curious about the practices you learned when you were growing up, and which ones you've found that you've let go of, other things that you've abandoned, that you found are not relevant, not helpful, and not necessary anymore?

It's a good question. What I have found, less helpful now, is. I think what was part, part of what I grew up in was also kind of like focusing on what negativity there may be around me.

And kind of like shielding myself off and kind of like, not constantly, but partially focusing on what negativity is, is, is, is around me that I have to protect myself off, that I have to work and work on.

I feel that's a practice I've let go in a sense that I feel there. Maybe, you know, disturbing forces around me. That's that's a given. Of course, that is a given.

But the reality, it only resonates within me, or it only finds an entrance in my system because there is something that resonates within me that kind of like makes this go within.

So I, I think in, in terms of like externalizing any kind of fault or judgment in someone else. I, have let this go and found it more helpful to internalize and kind of feel where does this resonate with me, and what can I clear with me to change my experience?

Because like, you know what? Like, am I going to stay miserable because this other person is going to be negative? No, I can't, you know, this this isn't something that I can control or that I want to control, but I can control my own energy system.

So, that's one of the practices for sure. Kind of like one of the maybe not practices, but attention distortion. So I felt like I, I, I dropped and I feel the other thing that I have encompassed in my own, journey much more kind of like an embraced is, is there is a connection with the body and an embodied spirituality.

versus kind of the, the that this embodiment that I think goes with a lot of these, these, these spiritual traditions. Yeah. I was so struck when I was first reading the Crystal, Illumination by Shankara, which is this remarkable treatise on enlightenment from around 600 A. D.

in India. And it's just a, inspiring collection, perspectives and practices that he refers to. The body is this bag of filth. that's about the other nicest thing it says about the body.

And they're all these references, this throughout this jewel of how the body is just this, collection of impulses and, and primitive processes and, it's just something to be transcended and, and moved away from.

And it's interesting, the same kind of attitude to that. A lot of the Christian mystics, the Middle Ages, they talk about modifying the flesh and, they would do things like scourged themselves, hit themselves with whips and mutilate themselves.

I mean, just really, really a lot of crazy body. Yes. And denial and, and punishment and ancient spirituality and, I'm glad we're moving beyond that. And then what is that?

Embody spirituality? I know, because in the in the final part of the short Path to Oneness, we're really having people move back into embodiment and their bodies and their, wonderful teachings about embodying spirituality.

What does that look like for you? What does it look like for people you're working with? Yeah. I think on, To really embrace the concept and meditate on the concept that, your body is a gift.

And as a body, your body is a vessel, of the expression of divine consciousness. And your body is sacred in that sense, as a, as God vessel, as that instrument that experiences that, as if with which consciousness experiences itself through all kinds of emotional experiences, through a full range of emotions, through a full range of of of experiencing beauty and experiencing experience in the world.

that's, that's a huge part. And again, it goes back to the importance of trauma release. I think it is, I think we are kind of like catapulted back if we believe and and more lives if we believe in karma.

I do believe that there is something if we haven't cleared something up, we will just be catapulted back. And it's on us to kind of like, clear this out, do test this out again.

And just embracing your body is a huge chance for that growth. It's your vessel. It's your gift. It's, it's it's it's a gift for yourself and for others.

And use it as such. Use it as this, this radiance. I think that's what embodied spirituality for me is. So let's do one final exercise here and in your journal, just note any places in your experience you see a split between spirituality in the body or between the body and your highest aspirations.

Are there any ways in which you've been putting your body down, neglecting your body, abusing your body, taking your body for granted? Just spend a moment and reflect and make a note of any parts of your life where you're missing embodiment.

Maybe, having these wonderful experiences out there, and then you struggle with your body. I know so many people I met early on in my spiritual journey were struggling with their bodies in so many ways.

And even now, I meet people who are. Facing all kinds of physical challenges and, and see the body as their enemy in some ways, that their body is this, this bundle of pain and challenge, that stopping them from having those elevated experiences.

So where are you? Are you finding there's a spirit body split in your life? Well, just take three conscious breaths. Again, as we let your journal and contemplate that question.

And you can do more of that later. this is just to kickstart your process of contemplation. You can look at your journal later on and journal more. Really explore these issues, explore them with a practitioner if you like to explore them on your road, explore them in in meditation.

Bring questions into meditation. If you'd like to see if there is an answer from some other dimension of yourself. So this is just a way of starting the conversation with yourself, which you even keep on going with later.

Very. But there's one thing to end with you'd love to share with people just one burning message in your heart that you wished every single person on earth knew.

What would that be? Just if there is any voice within you that says this is. But I cannot be this I am not, I am I, I'm not meant for connection or spirituality or any of this.

It is not a truth. It was may have been a reality that was created by something, but it is not the truth. And key for this journey is, a practice of radical self-compassion and self-love for wherever you're at on this journey right now.

Wow. What a, beautiful way to end. And I'd encourage you to make a note of that. Your journal as well. Radical self-love. That's what we want for you.

And I can assure you the universe perceives you as whole, perfect and complete just the way you are, regardless of how you see yourself. So here Mirjam and I are speaking on behalf of God.

God sees you as whole, perfect and complete. Why not see yourself the same way? Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing this dialog with us.

Mirjam. Thank you so much for sharing your heart and your inspiring story and your brilliant insights. Thank you so much, Dawson, and thank you to all the listeners.

We are with you and there's so much love for you here. That's the take home message. There's so much love for you here. If you can wind up loving yourself as much as the universe loves you, you'll be in great shape.

Thank you so much. And we will be back soon with more. Please do make a practice of sharing this, being part of our community, and really immersing yourself in these priceless and wonderful ideas.

Till next time, love yourself. Every blessing.

Mirjam Paninski

Early Life Trauma