So what we discovered also was that longevity is very, very interesting. The longevity appears to be creating a bridge that's blurring the lines between what has historically been thought of as wellness and prevention and what has historically been thought of as medical care.

It's the foundational thing that seems to be happening, and I'm going to show how I think this is unfolding, is that what we're really witnessing in the evolution of longevity in the consumer mindset is a mass shift in health locus of control.

people are moving from a mindset of, and this is the mindset I'm talking about, and it's the mindset that you would do well to really accelerate and reinforce in patients as they come into your care, it's this transition from health as something predestined that all I can do is be afraid of dying, be afraid of the onset of disease as I age, I'm fighting the genetic hand that I've been dealt, to an era in which people have the sense that they have some agency over the future of their health.

Nobody will consume longevity services if they haven't made that or at least begun to make that mind shift. This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.

Welcome to the Longevity Leaders podcast. I'm Dr. Isaac Jones. And what you're about to hear is part of a special series recorded at the Disrupt Clinical Event, where the world's top health medicine and longevity experts gather to share their latest breakthrough strategies and real world results.

Let's dive in to the conversation. So as Isaac just said, we've done some really quite fascinating research on the longevity consumer about I don't know, eight or nine months ago, A4M commissioned us to go in and try and really decipher what the, and decode the mind of the consumer as it relates to longevity and answer questions.

I'll tell you, we're all very close to this. And the conversations that we'll have while we're here this weekend are not representative of the conversations that consumers broadly have.

They may be representative of your patients, but when you look broadly at the universe of consumers, both in the US and elsewhere, The level of sophistication obviously is way, way different.

And so what we decided that we wanted to do with A4M was to try and understand answers to some basic questions like, what is it that, why do people want to live longer?

What, how would they measure return on investment in the, you know, in, when investing in longevity, what are the products and services that they look for?

What are the attributes of a clinic? that will attract and retain patients? Are there nuances and personas that we need to learn to speak differently to?

And so the answer to this is that it's actually a very complex consumer market. And it's interesting also that Isaac, I had no idea he was going to end his talk this way, saying that to engage in the longevity industry, you have to integrate a new mindset.

It turns out that to consume longevity, you have to integrate a new mindset. In fact, it's the integration of a new mindset that creates the new consumer population for longevity.

So we're going to dig into all of that. I have accidentally overbuilt my presentation for the allotted time. And so I'm going to skip a couple of things.

I'm going to just rush through them. At the end, you're going to see a slide that has my email address and invites you to just request this deck. This is meant to really be circulated.

There's a lot of information here. along with a handful of other things that I'll just mention along the way. So you'll see the instructions. So don't feel any pressure to take a bunch of notes or whatever, because I'm happy to share this with you.

So to get started. There we go. There we are. So how do we do this research? We applied something called social listening. It's my new favorite form of research, bar none.

It's fantastic. What it is is essentially a high tech approach to eavesdropping on consumer conversations across a whole variety of platforms. In this case, we eavesdropped on almost 700,000 of these conversations, three and a half, almost four billion X impressions.

You can see the platforms here. Honestly, it's the only way I think these days to do market research. But what you get as a result of it are things that may not intuitively based on the consumers that you interact with directly feel correct, but these are just statements of fact as to what people are saying and how they are thinking about the world of longevity.

So what we then learned is, and to put this into context actually, some of the challenges that we should be very mindful of commercializing longevity services is that we have today what's estimated to be a $600 billion industry with no brand leader.

There's nobody that rises in terms of service providers, not a medical professional specialty, not a clinic brand, not a clinic brand that even rises to the level of like one medical in the world of primary care.

$600 billion industry consider the fact that I don't know 12 or 13 years ago. Craig ventures started human longevity poured $700 million into that thing.

I think a lot and no brand leadership, which is to say two things number one huge opportunity. in front of, you know, for creating market leadership. But number two, there's something rather treacherous about trying to create market leadership.

And I'm going to attempt to unpack a bit of that as we as we talk. So what we discovered also was that longevity is very, very interesting. The longevity appears to be creating a bridge that's blurring the lines between what has historically been thought of as wellness and prevention and what has historically been thought of as medical care.

The foundational thing that seems to be happening, and I'm going to show how I think this is unfolding, is that what we're really witnessing in the evolution of longevity in the consumer mindset is a mass shift in health locus of control.

People are moving from a mindset of, and this is the mindset I'm talking about, and it's the mindset that you would do well to really accelerate and reinforce in patients as they come into your care.

It's this transition from health as something predestined that all I can do is be afraid of dying, be afraid of the onset of disease as I age. I'm fighting the genetic hand that I've been dealt to an era in which people have the sense that they have some agency over the future of their health.

Nobody will consume longevity services if they haven't made that or at least begun to make that mind shift. Now, why is it that people are making the mind shift?

I think what we found is that there are at least four big things that are happening in the mind of the public right now. that create this sense of possibility or plausibility.

The first is that you witness high profile investors pouring money into longevity ventures, especially here in the US. That makes the news. The media also is covering longevity innovations and the emergence of longevity science, which creates a sense of, holy smoke, this stuff is really real.

Then you've got in the background, the emerging role of AI and exponential technologies in healthcare, which says, okay, I'm recognizing that longevity appears to involve a lot of omic testing, a lot of data, the capture of the data that we're emitting as human data signal engines through our aura rings and other wearables.

Absent AI, it's a little difficult for anybody to believe, including us in this room. that we're really going to make sense of that volume of data with our human brains.

AI of course changes that equation entirely and creates the sense that new insights and discoveries at even an individual level are on the very, very near horizon.

And then last but not least, and this has been going on for, you know, I don't know, 15 years since the emergence of high deductible health plans is the rise of healthcare consumerism.

It's taken a long time for us to begin to divorce our relationship with health insurance and recognize that it is simply an instrument to prevent us from financial ruin in the unlikely event of something.

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Our new relationship with high deductible plans says, hey, unless something goes dreadfully wrong, I'm a cash pay patient, so I might as well buy what it is that I want.

And so we're finding it easier and easier for people to shop for healthcare that aligns with their values and sensibilities. And so when you add these things together, it creates what we see today, which is an exploding marketplace for longevity products and services.

Now, to give you a sense of some high level numbers, The industry itself, the growth rate year over year. So we did a two-year look back at longevity conversations.

In that two-year time, we saw that the conversations around longevity had grown at 29%. We see that as of last year, interestingly and excitingly, women make up now 40% of the longevity conversation.

Historically, as I'm sure probably most of you in the room have discovered, is longevity has tended to skew heavily male and biohackery. And increasingly, there's a female contingent, which has, by the way, entirely different requirements of service providers and of the messaging around longevity.

And we'll talk about that in a moment. We also see, as not surprisingly, year over year, 109% increase in the discussion of AI in the context of longevity.

And we see 140% growth in references to biological aging and biological age testing. And you have to really shout out to true diagnostic for fanning the flames of this.

I don't know if they're here in the back room, but they show up a ton and have just, I think, have done a remarkable thing in accelerating the growth of our field.

Now, I'm going to hop through motivations and demographics, except I'm going to touch on this one thing. So what is it that people, why do people want to live longer?

Isaac touched on this a moment ago. Turns out we have the top five reasons right here. They're not complicated reasons, but as you're building messaging, these are things that you want to take into account.

Why do they want to live longer? They want to be with loved ones longer. Not surprising. You're also seeing year over year change in the growth of discussions around these topics.

They want more time to achieve more stuff, more impact. They want to get smarter. They recognize, as all of us do, that the world is evolving very quickly, and it's freaking fascinating.

And who wants to be dead when the world is advancing as it is? Who wants to be cognitively impaired when the world is advancing as it is? They want to have more fun.

They want to witness human progress. So as you're building messaging, you can kind of count on the fact that one or all of these five things are rattling around the minds of consumers.

These are things that people fear about living longer. And I'll point out, and I'm going to revisit the cognitive decline dementia thing. Cognitive decline is we fear that maybe as much or more than death, it appears from the data that we've been gathering.

We'll talk about gender and some other things here in a moment. I'm going to hop through this section gingerly and get to sort of a summation point. So what we did, we ended up taking all of what we learned about different types of consumers, gender, age, et cetera, and tried to create, statistically create personas to say, okay, you know, who are the longevity consumers and can they all be talked to at once?

The answer is they cannot. One persona that we found that's no surprise to anybody is the biohacker persona. It's heavily skews male. It is, it heavily skews a little ADD.

They love to experiment with everything. They don't hold onto a lot of things for very long times. They hop from thing to thing. They're very future-minded.

Both men and the biohacker persona are very willing to invest today in modifying biological age. Even if I can't feel it right now, there's a massive satisfaction in slowing my pace of aging and lowering my biological age relative to chronological.

So they're investing really in a big future payoff. Contrast that with what we're calling the wellness seeker. which skews heavily female and shockingly a bit more prudent and cautious.

And these are people that, yes, they're concerned about the future, but they're not investing if there's not a benefit right now today. And they, in addition to that, they want to sober presentation of what the possibilities are and are very turned off by kind of the overselling and overhyping of longevity services and what they can accomplish.

Then there is a huge market that we labeled as the show me group. So these are people that want to believe but just haven't quite been tipped over Into action just yet and it's a big big group of people that we should be thinking about probably in this group there are a combination of biohackers and wellness seekers and Unfortunately, we have to decide which one we're really trying to appeal to because as you might imagine It's a little bit difficult to appeal to both take the role of influencers as an example and someone like Brian Johnson You know who I would argue has netnet made a massive contribution to the longevity field.

However, I While Brian has attracted a large number of people into the longevity consumer space, he is equally a repellent to another set of people who actually rationalize their non-participation in longevity by saying, look at how you have to live in order to be a longevity person.

It kind of resembles the lifestyle of a bodybuilder where your life is just consumed. by the activities of reducing your biological age, it becomes sort of absurd.

So that's the rejector as someone who's kind of gone to the far end of that and has sought out reasons and rationale to say, this is all crap. I don't want to shift my locus of health control because I don't want to take the responsibility and take action on advancing my health.

And I'm going to live over here. There's not a lot of utility in trying to convert that group. There's a massive group in the show me bucket that needs sober evidence and sober representations of the possibilities and probably a good dose of what's in it for you now and what's in it for you in the future in order to join this movement.

Now, the evolution of the longevity patient is an equally kind of interesting thing. And as best we can tell, it has three phases to it. The first is a simple awakening.

And a lot of people actually refer to it as an awakening. And that awakening looks like neo in the matrix. It's like something's not right in this world of healthcare.

Every time I show up, I'm prescribed another medication that I have to be on for life in order to maintain my health, despite the fact that my body never produced this substance in the first place.

And now these things start to interact. The silliness of the way that we deal with symptom suppression medicine, it triggers something into an awakening.

And by the way, I'm on a high deductible plan. I'm a cash-pay patient. All these things come together to say, I now want to take a bit of control of the future of my health.

And inspired by the other factors that we talked about converging. They then graduate into this sort of middle bucket of an investor. I'm going to start investing.

Generally speaking, the first step is into supplements. I'm going to invest in supplements to advance my health and hopefully slow my aging process. And maybe I'll get more serious about a fitness regimen.

They're taking actions as an investor in the future, but they haven't made one last switch in mindset. And that is what happens in the final stage, which is the empowerment mindset.

Who here has done a whole body MRI before? Okay. If you've ever done a whole, when I did this, this was the first time I did a health assessment where I was legitimately kind of nervous going into it.

When you did it, was there a little in the back of your mind, holy shit, I'm not going to be able to hide from this machine. It may find an aneurysm, a tumor I don't want to know about.

You've kind of got to embrace this idea that no news is bad news because I'm finding it early in order to take this last leap. And the fully empowered longevity consumer needs help transitioning into the world of advanced preventive medicine.

There's an obviousness to, in order to experience longevity, I can't die of something preventable. And so this last bit, it's a leap that people need careful communication to help them make.

And our experience has shown that not enough attention goes to The preamble to a deep dive into what we might think of as ultra high tech preventive medicine, and then not enough attention goes into the skill in the return of the results.

And so both of those two things are hugely, hugely important. The takeaway is, as you can hear, there is no one message that resonates with everybody.

So as people say in the traditional world of marketing things, You really do have to decide who you want to be for, because if you're for everyone, you're for no one.

And so that's a big, big takeaway from this research. Interestingly, the word longevity absolutely dominates the conversation. Unless you're opening a retirement community, I would steer away from healthy aging and The anti-aging word, which is of course an important one for A4M to understand, is actually, it's not a defunct word, but it tends to relate more to aesthetics and to the properties of products.

This product has anti-aging properties. So as you're marketing, longevity is certainly the word you wanna use, couple of word clouds. And now we're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about products, but also clinic attributes that people are looking for.

From a product standpoint, When you look broadly at the consumer universe, the inexpensive things that can be highly personalized are the products that people are most drawn to.

And so as Isaac was just saying a moment ago, the personalization of supplements is a really big deal. Supplements are the foundation product that sort of the perception that I'm consuming longevity kind of rests on.

Following supplements, you have fitness, not surprisingly. And what we find is that among more economically constrained consumers, fitness is a do-it-yourself endeavor.

They'd rather embark on their own fitness journey, invest in supplements, and then preserve money to invest in some other longevity testing and modalities and what have you.

So those are the two really foundational ones. Then you get into fasting. Stem cells and peptides are the next three big ones, interestingly bigger than saunas and cold therapy in the context of longevity, each individually.

which was surprising. Now, what do you not see here that's really kind of notable? Hormone replacement therapy. Very, very interesting to see that not show up in the context of longevity.

Now, as it happens, we've done another social listening study on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. And so there is a ton of conversation taking place about it and a ton to learn about it.

But what we found in longevity is that the conversations aren't taking place in the context of longevity. The takeaway here is it's a communication problem.

The people that are doing hormone replacement therapy tend to be framing it as a benefit for today. Maybe there's even a sense that there are health risks that make it life contracting, but the time your health span is better, but it's just not being represented as a longevity intervention.

That's a big, big opportunity to refine communication around BHRT. What do people want out of their clinic? So the best attributes of a longevity clinic, if that's what you're creating, they want number one, a one stop shop, a medical home.

People don't, if you're paying a fair amount of money for medical services, it's off putting when you wind up in urgent care because you have a bug. And so the reason that I'll tell you it's a very interesting thing.

The reason that HLI can blow 700 million dollars and can't retain a customer relationship and there are a number of concierge medical practices that from a technological standpoint are vastly inferior but yet wildly more profitable is that People will trade some technological glitz for a relationship that they can count on across their health needs.

And so the more broadly you can satisfy the health needs of people, the better. And so very, very important to keep that in mind. Data-driven decisions.

Data-driven decisions need to be on display. In fact, I would venture to say that you aren't engaging in longevity if the consumer doesn't perceive a high degree of personalization driven by the testing you've had them invest in and a transparent analysis of the data.

I would literally say this is a situation from the theater that you're creating that you want to actually demonstrate that you are analyzing data and drawing conclusions as a result of that data.

And then finally, really very linked to the previous point, is supplement recommendations need to come as a result of data analysis in the way that consumers are perceiving it.

There's a shocking amount of discussion around, I came into a longevity clinic and they pushed the supplements on me before they had the data to do it.

It's a prescription without diagnosis problem, being the equivalent of longevity malpractice. And so, and so again, the importance of explaining the data driven rationale for a supplement recommendation, and then what are the markers we're going to look for to move?

And then how do we then demonstrate success so that people stay engaged in that, in that process is very, very important value drivers and value killers.

So you're kind of picking up on some of the value drivers. The only one that I haven't mentioned on the value driver side is this concept of curation.

People want. their longevity expert to curate cool stuff that they haven't seen before, but is also evidence-based, safe, and likely to deliver the result that they're looking for, which creates a tension between the need to be cutting edge on the one hand and the need to be differentiated in first.

And on the other hand, the need to not introduce crazy, quacky stuff. And so, you know, it's a very, it's an important balance to strike. And Isaac actually mentioned this in that, in that series of four things.

Where do you want to land in that four level thing? and it's an important thing, and it might set expectations ahead of time. If you're going up Isaac's scale into the one and two range, disclosing that this is a practice that is pushing boundaries is something important, so that they understand that you understand that we're going to push some boundaries, and there may not be the science here just yet, but we think it's quite plausible.

Very important. On the value killer side, obviously over-promising results Staff training, you can't be the only one on the team that gets, A, your longevity practice, B, what that means, and C, how do you choreograph the theater of that experience in order to create the impression on the consumer that you want?

Staff training is just big, big, big, starting with yourself. Poorly managed follow-up is another huge one. The last one, though, I want to call attention to is false alarms.

You hear this a lot with whole body imaging, you know, Pernuvo, you know, other people get false positives, scary as crap. And so again, the communication upfront about, look, we're going to do something that, you know, that is on the front of the frontier of prevention.

The consequence of doing it is from time to time, we'll discover things that might seem scary, relax. We've, you know, we've got this, we're not going to send you down a path.

So just diffuse some of that anxiety upfront, really, really big deal, not scaring the heck out of people with false alarms. So now let's ask the question of how do people know if they're getting a return on their longevity investment.

Longevity is at its core a data driven approach to managing health. And so data is at the core of this answer. The first we've literally got these rank order well being.

You're not going to beat that. Yes. People want to feel better. So let's just dismiss that one for a moment. Sleep quality is a really, really big one.

More people some people say want to sleep better than even want to lose weight. The Evolution of our rings and light and similar technologies have all educated us that our sleep is far from perfect and it creates a need for us to want to sleep better that even goes beyond our desire for more energy.

Sleep optimization should be found. It's foundational to health but should be foundational to a longevity practice. Then we have blood panel metrics. The role of blood panel metrics whatever that metric may be.

needs to combine the consumer's awareness that this measure is important, I understand what it means, and we're going to exert effort to try and move it.

And so when it moves, that resonates as a success and creates a success momentum. Then we get into kind of the big two real health buckets that people are concerned with and they want to optimize.

The first is memory and cognition. And note that it just goes up and up and up at an accelerated rate. in terms of the frequency of conversation about it.

People, what's the point of living longer if your brain's not working? You'd rather not put that burden on your family. And people are just increasingly sensitive to it and aware of the risk and it's a foundational capability for longevity practice.

The other is vascular health, which is kind of interesting because historically people's desire to just prevent a heart attack Hasn't been that great.

It's like, if you've got a lot of heart attacks in your family, maybe if your brother just had a heart attack, maybe, you know, for a moment you're interested in heart attacks, but now people are a bit more nuanced in their understanding of cardiovascular health, not to just look at this one organ, but rather the 60,000 miles or so of vasculature that kind of feed everything in our bodies.

And so there's a growing consumer recognition that the need for, there's a need for vascular rejuvenation and the reversal of vascular aging. And there's a common sense resonance that that's going to then feed the other results across your, you know, all of your organ systems.

So it's a big, that's a big one. So looking at these two, vascular and cognitive. Anyway, I've got a little formatting thing. You, you, you can see that they're, you know, these are kind of our two foundational ones, but yet people haven't, there's an opportunity for, to link in people's minds.

As we all know, if you're improving cardiovascular health, you are also improving brain health. The two are actually quite stitched together. Now, we're gonna go to the bottom.

The next five things, and below really the top three, it gets, the numbers get a little bit insignificant, but body composition and muscle mass, especially for women, there's a humongous appetite among women to create and maintain muscle mass.

And so that's a big scorekeeping measure for women. Gym performance is a bit more for men, so sort of strength and output, but muscle health is a really, really interesting and kind of under attended to category, of health.

And then we have energy and sexual levels being next. And then finally, we have the aging biomarkers, which is pretty cool to have a single test actually show up on the list.

You might remember we had a number three, we had biomarkers in general, but boy has biological age measurement kind of come into the main. So these are our two, you know, two big scorekeepers, sexual health, energy, and Oh, muscle.

Lastly, the gamification of longevity. Isaac mentioned this a moment ago. It appeals a bit more to the biohackers. I think one of the coolest daggone contributions that Brian Johnson has made to our world is this rejuvenation Olympics.

Are people here familiar with this? Who is familiar with this thing? It's freaking interesting and underutilized in my opinion. It's a, it's a scorekeeping.

It's a way to create a sports and athletic metaphor for longevity. It's creative. It's positive. It's, it's fascinating to see. If you notice the managing clinic, it's, it's, you know, he's wanting to, to point people based on real, real world evidence in the form of biological age testing to the clinics that are achieving the best results.

I just think that is a really, really cool thing. that people could make more use of. So now I'll offer a bit of curation. So thinking about the concepts that we just unpacked, we have identified a handful of things that we would view as very substantial and evidence-based, where appropriate, growth accelerants for longevity practices.

The first one falls into the bucket of AI. I would tell you, I mean, it's probably true across all professional domains, but in the world of longevity, if you're not using AI and don't have a plan to use it more and more and more, it's you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage.

And I would venture to say like, it's not at all hard for me to imagine a time by the end of the year or early next. where actually as part of the marketing message and presentation of a practice is its use of AI, how it's using AI to find unique insights and to comb through inhuman amounts of data to get answers that people couldn't otherwise get.

There are two really interesting developments in our world around AI. One is a product underwritten by a private equity firm, actually. It's the first decision support tool designed specifically for functional integrative and longevity medicine practitioners.

I'm going to put this, it's on my email thing at the end, but you can try this for free for a month and get a sense of it. It's HIPAA compliant. It's a healthcare ready tool and a really interesting one that's kind of growing quickly.

The other one, and the founder of this is here, her name is Sunita Mohanty. I don't know if she's in the room. It is the first AI native electronic health record, and quite frankly, the first time I have seen a good reason to endure the pain and suffering of changing electronic health records.

Imagine for a moment, who has used CHAT GPT and made a prompt? Okay, almost everybody. So when you're doing this for a patient, you have to create the context, and that's a pain in the neck.

With any prompt, you have to create the context to let the thing know what it is you're asking about. Imagine if your electronic health record served up to a decision support system built into it, everything you know about this patient, Tom Blue.

I don't have to write Tom Blue is a 53 year old male, blah, blah, blah. Everything, all my lab results, every visit transcription from the built in scribe is the context.

And now I ask it a question and it produces answers, produce a care plan, interpret the meaning of this lab result in the context of everything we know.

Chatting with the entirety of a patient chart is a huge breakthrough, and that's what these folks have really pioneered. This woman, by the way, when you meet her, and I know she's running around her somewhere, was the project lead in creating Facebook's Oculus.

She's a freaking, freaky ninja of technology, and you need to try and cross paths with her while you're here. Now, the next one. As we probably all know, our eyes are arguably the windows into our brain.

I have been going to exponential medicine before COVID for a number of years, waiting and waiting for the eye tracking technologies that they show there to show up ready to quantify cognition.

And I can remember at IFM when we unveiled and did the training on the Bredesen protocol for reversing cognitive decline. It's like to build a business around that.

You really need high resolution technology to quantify cognition so people can see, A, I have a problem before it's really bad and everyone can tell I have a problem.

And B, then I can create success momentum by showing that all of this effort and investment is bearing fruit. The tools are so freaking blunt and low resolution.

And so I ran across last year a company called ViewMind that was doing Alzheimer's drug research with eye tracking technology. And so it's a VR headset, the entire testing battery is like 15 minutes long, and it produces a report that the front portion of which looks like this.

It's quantifying cognition across six different cognitive domains. This happens to be a person I can tell you is confirmed extraordinarily ADD. And you can see his sustained attention is in the tank.

And then it plots you based on age, gender, and education level on a continuum. You would not frame this. I'll tell you, in real life, this technology is a lot like a whole body MRI for a lot of people.

And it requires some defusing of anxiety on the front end of it, and some thoughtful return of results on the back end. But it's the first technology I've seen that has the potential both to demonstrate, if you have a hyperbaric oxygen chamber, or doing plasma exchange, or photobiomodulation transcranially, there's anything involving brain health, this is a great, really weirdly inexpensive way of quantifying that and demonstrating results.

Now, moving to the next one. the human data signal engine that we all are. We've all played around and experimented, I'm sure, with how we might use wearables broadly in pursuit of wellness and longevity.

There is a new wearable that looks like this. This is not an aura ring. Imagine an aura ring where every measure is FDA cleared. This is called the happy ring.

The happy ring is gradually unloading its sensors. So when you look here, you can see all the FDA cleared things this thing can do. The place they're starting is sleep.

This is a frigging sleep lab on your hand. It is insurance covered. It is a diagnostic that can have your therapy if you want it to be insurance covered, insurance covered.

And what's interesting is, is that the company has actually comes bundled with a 50-state sleep medicine practice. So you don't have to get trapped in the quicksand of sleep diagnoses.

And now it's like, oh, great, I've got to figure out how to get someone on a CFAB machine and get the mask not to leak and an oral appliance to work and blah, blah, blah.

They make it completely turnkey. Definitely, definitely one to pay attention to. The next step for them in the world of sleep They haven't even opened door to creating a practitioner account yet.

It'll happen in May. But the next step for them is to create a sleep physical where you don't just give this to somebody who might have sleep apnea. You give it to anybody and it assesses sort of the totality of their sleep health and places you in a really neat position to do a cool consultation.

Last but not least, we have up, here we go. This is a pure financial conversation for a moment. There is there is, as you might know, when you think about human longevity or fountain life, there's a lot of these organizations that are very, very well capitalized, which is necessary to bring to bear a lot of the technologies if you're doing them in house.

There are two companies that we've discovered that are consolidating really high-performing practices into something that's a much larger bohemoth that's far better resource.

One is called Lifespan. It's a giant family office that's buying really high-end, mature concierge medical practices that have a flavor of longevity to them.

The other one is called a gentis longevity, which is a bit different. Lifespan doesn't meddle with the practice, a gentis actually does seek to standardize the practices across a range of services.

They're looking for HRT and modality-based practices, peptide practices, that type of thing. If that type of investment and monetization of your practices is of any interest at all, I think these two are both really, really interesting ones to talk to.

Here is the slide that ends this entire thing. This is probably a very stupid thing for me to way to go about it, but that's my email address. And if you just put the numbers of the things that you want, send me an email, put the subject as disrupt so I can just spot it.

And I'll, you know, or someone on our team will just disseminate to you whatever it is that you would like off of this thing. So that concludes what I have to say.

And thank you very much. Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health.

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Tom Blue

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