Art, Communication and Business in the new generation

Introduction and Guest Welcome 0:00

Welcome to the practice upgrade Summit. I'm doctor Dennis Perman, and I'll be your host for today. Our next speaker is a graduate of Quinnipiac University studying health sciences, and then went to Life West to study chiropractic care. You know, as a chiropractic coach and consultant, I have my finger on the pulse of the up and coming young superstars in coaching and in chiropractic business. And this doctor's name kept rising to the top. So it's my pleasure to welcome to the practice Upgrade Summit.

Doctor Paul O. Feeley. Doctor Paul, welcome aboard. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. So, you know, you had a very interesting introduction to chiropractic care. You had some personal health challenges. Would you tell us that story, please? Doctor Paul? Yeah. So when I got first introduced to chiropractic, just like majority of the of the population gets introduced to chiropractic means they didn't know anything about it, right? What is chiropractic? Is it physical therapy? Is it what's doctors.

Is it this is it that is in the third. And you know, what happened to me is I got into a near-death car accident in 2010 where my life completely changed. In that moment, you know, when you're contemplating life or death, a lot of things come up to your mind, right? A lot of things come to your mind of, am I ever going to be the same again? Right? That's the main that's that's like the main thing. Am I ever going to be the same? And when I got into this particular car accident, I did damage to my femur bone.

And the first thing the doctor ever said to me said, you're lucky to even be alive. So imagine waking from a slumber and a slumber. You know how they say you see, you see things when you go into that past life? That's where I was headed to. Yes. A place of no return. And and I remember vividly of what I saw and we can get into that in further detail. But what I saw was not being here on planet Earth when I was in that place,

Personal Injury and Chiropractic Hope 2:06

the first thing I remember hearing was, you're lucky to be alive. And then the second thing is, you're lucky if you'll be able to walk again. I remember at that moment I couldn't accept that. I couldn't accept, the life of not being able to walk, not being able to live to my fullest capacity. But I went to seek second opinions after leaving the hospital, after they gave me all these drugs, all these things to make me feel better. And everyone kept saying, you're gonna have to learn to deal with it right?

Not until I saw a chiropractor. And the biggest thing about this chiropractor is this first initial thing, when I went to go see the chiropractor, he said to me, he said, I think I can help you. That was something that I didn't hear in months with what I had going on and what he did there is he initiated hope. Hope that I was not getting any more from anybody. And here was this guy. He was like a nerdy guy, a small guy like, you know, and I remember being mad initially, like, what are you talking about?

Because no one had gave me hope before, like this particular guy had. So he decided to work with me. And what he did is he did a full spectrum of everything. He changed my diet to an anti-inflammatory diet. He did neurology. So I was looking at different white and red sheets. Reprograming. My neurology. He did physical therapy. He did deep osseous adjusting on me. Within six months, I was walking again. And in nine months, I was in a full sprint again. So I went from the unbelievable to the believable.

And when I saw him that last time, I said, hey, doc, like, is this what you're doing? You take people that are hopeless and give them hope again. I was like, how many clients do you see like this? And he's like, I would say 60% of my clients are like that. I was like, oh, that's amazing. Then I asked him, I said, how many days do you work a week? And he's like three days. And I said, okay, okay. I said, how much does a chiro make? And he send me X amount of dollars, like where I gotta go. He said, go to Life West now and then from that day on, I packed my bags at 21 years old and I moved over to the West Coast and never looked back. And that was the start of my chiropractic journey.

What a wonderful story. So this gives you a tremendous grounding in what chiropractors do, and the way that we alter the course of people's destiny. Tell us how you use these distinctions that you made in your own practice. Like the kind of tools that he used on me. No, no. The consciousness, the hope. So to me, that's one of the most profound things I've ever heard. And I hear it over and over again that chiropractors offer hope where other providers may not be able to. So how did that translate into your practice?

Oh, man, I think that is like the the steering, the steering engine of my practice when I because I think it's important to meet people where they're at. And I was that person. I was on the opposite side of the spectrum. And I know where that person comes from. They they are so used to a certain type of medicine and have no idea of anything different. If you meet them where they're at and you say the simple words, you're in the right place and I think I can help you. It's a paradigm shift. Why? Because people are usually telling them what's wrong with them.

I'm telling them what's possible with them. Yes, it's a different philosophy. Indeed. And I knew when we met that we were very much on the same page. Because you're bringing forth principles that I know to be true. How do you get so smart, so young, nice guy? I guess that that's what life experience will do for you. So you, through chiropractic college and now as a young practitioner, you become a thought leader, by introducing a concept called the samurai. Where does that actually come from? Well, the samurai came from my obsession with old Japanese history.

And, when you think of the word samurai. Right. There's a certain, nobleness courageousness braveness that comes with those words. Yeah. So, doctor, permit if I put a samurai in front of you right now, there's a couple things that you may feel. You may feel if they're here to protect you, you may feel very safe. Or you may feel scared. Because the power that a samurai holds. Right. And to me, the samurai is the ultimate warrior because they're they're swordsmen with their work. And the detail of their work is very much well rounded.

And for me, samurai is an ultimate level of service, right? And a samurai serves at a higher level than oneself. And I wanted to name it that because it's not about bragging. It's not about boasting. It's about being damn good. When when you're in front of a samurai, there's no words that need to be said. He doesn't need to tell you how powerful a samurai is.

Samurai Philosophy and Practice Mindset 7:18

You know, by looking at one. Yeah, right. Profound. So you turn this into a training where you actually coach and, and teach other doctors how to show up with samurai energy. Could you talk about that a little bit? What do you actually do? Yeah. So, the samurai energy is sprinkled on top of it, right? Is, you know, our new logo now is actually the word samurai with the samurai sword slash right through it. Right? The sword that slash through it means that the cutting of oneself. You must. You must suffer to learn to come out a better version of yourself.

So the principles of samurai. On the back of the shirt, it says the only person you have to be better than is the person you were yesterday. That's a different little competition. That's a competition between you and yourself. And I believe that if you continuously get better every single day, even just a little bit over a year, two year, five year, ten year worth of time, you're going to be phenomenal at what you do because you constantly have gotten better. The problem is we compare ourselves to other people and we compare ourselves to other people.

We only focus on the things that we're really good at because we want to look good in front of other people. Yes, but if we focus on the things that maybe are lacking, what we do is we get into a group of samurai. I ask them, what are your biggest fears? Because we all have the same fears, but we're scared to say it to each other, right? And the biggest fear is failing in practice is I'm not a business person. I'm the first doctor. My my family. And the pressure is tremendous, right? We talk about these things and what I tell these students that every fear that you have, I possess.

But I've learned to manage it. And I want to tell you how to better manage it. So I believe personally chiropractic is based on three different stools. The first two is the art of chiropractic. I think as an artist, what we are because when we display our art through people, we're a channel of energy that allows us to express life expression. And me as an artist, I think we should be the best damn artist that we possibly can be. There's a difference between a chiropractor down the street and the optimal chiropractor, and I think training the optimal chiropractor is going to be the difference between someone coming to see you and somebody else.

The second thing is communication. Are you approachable? Can you talk to someone and make them get the chiropractic story, or get the understanding of there's a different medicine out there besides Western medicine, right? The third thing is, can you run a business? I know so many artists, great healers that are not in practice today because they can't run a business. Yeah. So the entrepreneur must be nourished, just like the artists within us. And all three of those stages are very important of lasting and chiropractic.

For a long time indeed. So it's very unusual to have, young doctors as sensitive as you are to the importance of business principles. What are some of the pitfalls that the young doctors who are watching need to be aware of in order to become better chiropractic entrepreneurs and business people? Right. I think the biggest pitfall, doc, is that people not believing in themselves and they they, they get the story that you need to work for me to learn what you need to learn, and you can't get it anywhere else.

But you know what it is. They say, I'm going to teach you how to run this business, right? I'm going to teach you how to do it. Truthfully, as you're running, you're in that business as an employee. So your mindset is set on I'm there from 9 to 5. And guess what? When it's time, it's 5:00. When those after hours, when those real business owner hours actually are, you're out the door because you're an employee of the business? Yes. So you never really learn the essential skills to actually run a business.

And I always say the best way to learn is to try it out. I'm not saying not have a mentor. I think having a mentor is very much key, but I do think some experience is the best experiment. And I think the missing piece is the confidence that you can go out there and do it. You know, I've been self-employed since I've been in chiropractic, and it's the best thing that I've ever done for myself. Why? Because I take ownership. Because if you don't own your life, someone else will. And for me, I think owning my life and owning my lifestyle is just as important as being a chiropractor as well.

So I think the missing component is that you can do it and here is how to do it right. And if we can get over that hump that I can be a business owner, I can run a business right out of school. I think that's going to allow people to be into to that more, because the truth is, is this is that big corporations are taking over chiropractic. And we don't know that this is happening because it's adolescence. I think about this for a second. Places like the Joint. Right. They have chiropractors coming out of school getting getting chiropractors right out of school.

Pam and I salary these people who run this company are not run by chiropractors. They're run by businessmen. Right? They see something great with chiropractic. And now they're going to add the application of chiropractic. We have to protect our profession by creating more corporations that allow optimal care to people. Right. Because if not, these big companies are going to come over and be like McDonald's and take over our profession. Well, I knew you were a visionary, but now we're into some real interesting territory.

So, do you aspire to being one of the corporate giants that organizes chiropractic around the principle rather than around McDonald's? Well, my thing is this is to leave. I don't think I'm going to change the world like that. Doc. I think I'm going to do is I'm going to spark the mind that changes the world, not me. It's not going to happen to me. I'm just the channel. But I think one of these future chiropractors that are coming up now are going to be the ones to make that big difference. So for me, if I can leave my samurai imprint on this next future generation is be self employed because you want to own your lifestyle.

I think that's going to translate to the future for us to protect this profession, because right now what we got going on school is these docs at school are telling you to work for somebody. And what I find is people get into bad situations, data for 2 or 3 years and then what are the way out of the profession? How do I know this? Because I'm the channel for a lot of kairos. They call me when they're in need, right? A lot of times their need is because they want to get out of the profession. And I know that to be a fact.

I have so many friends that I went to school with call me saying that they're not chiropractors anymore, or they want to get out of the profession.

Business Principles and Entrepreneurial Pitfalls 14:00

And the reason and the reason why is because that self-empowerment is not it's not, and it's not enhanced in them because they're just doing what they're told, right? Versus like taking control. So then first, I'm so pleased that these doctors who are confused and frustrated and disappointed with chiropractic are finding you or me or some of the other thought leaders who want to guide them towards understanding how great chiropractic practices. Right. What are some of the things that you do? How do you instill the confidence and the, self-awareness?

In the Doctors that you work with? What do you actually do? So the the the main thing is practical application, right? I, I what I always talk about is my failures first. Right. Because I don't want to act like I'm special. I'm not special. Right. So I like to tell people that here's the mistakes I've made. Learn from my mistakes. So you're able to pick up where I left off, for instance, how to build a practice. I did the whole screening thing. I did 100 screens my first year in practice. Right.

I was damn good at it. But it's not for everybody. I understand that there's better tactics today that allow you to get in front of new patients, right? Like, social media marketing is a genius way right now to get peop new patients in the door, right? That's step one, right? We need to get people into your doors. Right. Step two would be systems. Right? What are systems that I need to go ahead and be successful? Me? I run a system where we talk about care plans. We talk about day one, day twos and threes.

Right. How to get people in and bring them into a care plan. Step one two. Step two, step three. And I think these things are not really taught in school. Like if you look at school in general right. And you go to clinic, they're charging $25 an adjustment. You're spending an hour with each person. You're making only $25. You're learning a failing system. Yes. And then you're adapting that system in everyday practice. And then you wonder why you can't make any money in practice. Yes. So I think the best thing to do is to put yourself down on a pedestal and say, hey, listen, these are stuff that I've learned, and then give them practical things and practical things.

Or one of the biggest keys that we can do is like, okay, how do I really start this? What do I need to do? It's as simple as, you don't need a fancy office at first. You can rent a back space office right? Build up clientele. And that clientele is going to be so static when you actually get into that nice place, right? So it starts off small and it can grow to something big. But I think there's visionary. People think you need to have a $50,000 office right up front, and you don't have to do that.

You can start off very small, learn how to run a corporation. Your corporation grows. Then you expand to that massive office. Then you remember those days. Remember when I used to be in that little small office? Oh. You're sparking my memories of, being in a, basement office. I rented a room from my other instructor. 164th Street and 84th Avenue in Jamaica, Queens. And, you know, I started humbly, just, like. Just like we all do. But I never forgot that those early days were formative for me. And that's exactly what you're talking about.

You remember where you were, and then you really get to appreciate and grateful for you all 100%. Bravo, Bravo. Now, on your website, I saw that you made reference to Malcolm Gladwell, in outliers, saying that, masters take 10,000 hours in order for them to be able to achieve reasonable mastery. Now, that's a reference that only somebody who is very well read would even recognize, much less apply. So apparently you like to read cool stuff. What are some of the formative books that you read that you like to share with our viewers?

Yeah, I so one, I have to start with chiropractic textbooks. So my favorite book is, D.D. Palmer. The chiropractors adjuster is that big, huge Bible. What's his my favorite book that was given to me by one of my close mentors. Just that book was way ahead of its time. He's talking about quantum physics before quantum things was actually a thing, right? Second series of books that I love is Joe Dispenza. Joe Dispenza is a thought leader in this profession as well, but now a thought leader in the world for the world.

Everyone knows Joe Dispenza and evolve your brain. Breaking the habit of being yourself. You are the placebo are just really great books on just how our mind inhibits power, right? Yes. And then my the third thing in terms of business that I really get into is Robert Kiyosaki. His whole group, I've read all of them, you name them. And, and rightfully I read a book of Rich dad, Poor Dad and the whole yeah, rich dad, poor dad, tax free wealth. Start your corporation the whole, cashflow quadrant. I've. I've read probably the whole series.

I read a book a week. I really, fantastic. I try, I, I really, I think my daddy always tell me that your brain is the strongest muscle in your body. So I must flex the brain every day by reading and putting knowledgeable information in my head. Yes. Well, that's breathtaking. Especially since, you know, again, I keep on emphasizing your youth because I'm old and you're not, but, But the the common thread between the books that you are talking about is consciousness. You know, your, your business approach is a how to business approach where you get in and get your hands dirty and your feet wet and learn, you know, on the job from doing the things that you do.

And yet your inspiration seems to come from a more esoteric and vibrational source. Right. What role do you think consciousness plays in the development of the chiropractors success? I think consciousness is one of the biggest keys. And if you if you ask yourself, how do I trust intuition, right? Intuition is a trusting method. And the reason how to trust intuition is to practice. When a thought comes into your mind and it's sealed in your mind for a second, is to trust it. The more you trust your intuition over a period of time, the more it becomes a reasonable fact, right?

For me, as a healer, as a person, like when I have those gut feelings, I see it as truth. Why? Because I learn to trust my intuition. So I believe consciousness plays a big role, and I feel like the subconscious talks to us through gut feelings and things like that. And I've learned to trust that over a period of time again. How did you get so smart? So you know, really, these are these are remarkable insights and, spoken from a place of truth and wisdom that far, how this is your years on the planet.

So in your office procedure, when you are guiding a patient from that place, you know, where they come in, they're in pain. They don't really know anything about chiropractic. They don't know anything about esoteric healing. They just think you're like a doctor that they go to, and they're hoping you give them some relief. Talk to us a little bit about how you orient your patients in the very beginning. Do you, do you, educate them? Do you do a health care class? I saw on your website that you do a two day procedure where you bring them in for consultation, and then the next day they have their report of findings and their, and their first adjustment.

That's a very advanced concepts for, for younger doctors to be implementing.

Books, Consciousness, and Patient Education 22:00

So I want you to talk about how you evolved your office procedure and what kinds of things you do in order to orient patients towards what you do. Okay. So that's a great question. And, the truth is, what I do is I treat a patient like if it was me prior before my car accident. The reason why is because I can't act like they know what I know, right? So I like to talk to how I would talk to myself because I'm the ultimate skeptic right at that particular point. So what would PA, the ultimate skeptic think at this age, at this part of my process of the exam?

Yeah, the first thing is developing rapport with somebody. Yeah. The history, what I teach in samurais is the most important parts of a day. One day two process. Why? Because name one doctor spends more than 5 to 10 minutes with you to talk about you, right? In a history, I'm getting the the details of what this issue is, how their life is being affected by this issue. And also I'm learning about them as well. There's a, process, practice that I practice called nonviolent communication. And the main thing of nonviolent communication is empathy, right?

And during my exam process, I'm giving them empathy by listening. And then when I need to, interject my empathy, I will. But the main thing is listening, because how many MDS go and they're writing a prescription while someone is talking to them about what's going on. And here I am, just full on intention of what you're telling me. So right there, that's going to build rapport. Yes. The second thing is on the day two, I don't take any money. I have them pay for everything on day one. Why? Because there's something about day two where there's no money exchange, right?

There's no money exchange that's being exchanged, where that relationship can become deeper. Right? So I have them pay for everything on day one, just as a subtle thing in their mind where, okay, I paid for this, but this next visit is like you're actual a practice member of the practice, right? I want them to feel how that feels like on day two, you come in, I go over the report, you get adjusted, you get to meet the whole staff. You you're part of the family. I want people to feel that because I want them to feel that this is a place where you can heal and look at our community without having any money exchange.

The money exchange happens on day three. Why? Because they had an experience. They go home, they tell their their wife or their kids or their friends like, I went to this place. I feel so much better. It's like a family place. It's all this stuff. So the experience that you're creating in the process is actually more important than the actual adjustment. This is a place where people get healed, and here's how I'm going to present it. Beautiful, beautiful. So you talk about hope. You talk about empathy.

You talk about consciousness. For somebody who prides himself on being as practical as you are, you're pretty cosmic in your own way, aren't you? Yeah, I think they they they cross. They cross each other. They do. They do it. I'm just reflecting on how how blessed you are and your patients as well, that you have this unusual awareness. So early in the game. And clearly, you're destined for a great career. There's no doubt in my mind, based on what you're saying here. So when you take care of people, I'm talking about some of the objections that come up.

You've done your best to make family, family feel you've given them some esoteric leadership. But not everybody learns and grows at the same rate. Talk a little bit about some of the objections that come up and how you overcome them. So, some of the objections that do grow up that come up, I try to get rid of a lot with my time in practice. I try to get rid of that. But at the end of day two saying like talk this over with your, your significant other because I know that to me, when that comes up, I need to talk about this with my spouse.

Right. The second the second objection I hear the most is money, right? But the way I count, I counteract that. I'm like, how much money do you spend on other things that don't involve health? Right. And I have them give me things that like. Okay, what's important to you? Right. If I can give you two things that are important. Like what? What would you say? A majority of the people say their health. And I was like, don't you think your health is well worth the investment? And when you put it in that standpoint, people will start to understand, like I do need to invest in me, like I invest in everyone else.

But if I don't have energy to invest in myself, they're not going to be nothing for me. And I always ask people the simple question I said is if you're 100 years old, right? And you don't have experience and you're feeling how you're feeling when you were in your 20s, would you want to live forever? And people say, yes, yes, because age is irrelevant at that point. And so then I ask, I was like, how important is quality of life for you? Right? If you're headaches or, or fatiguing you or nagging you every day.

Right. If we're able to get away those headaches and you have a higher quality of life, how long do you want to live like that? And people really start to understand, like, okay, it's not about the age. It's not about all this. It's like, what's my quality of life? Like? Because if my quality of life like is great at 100, 150, I want to live to 200. Easy. If if my quality of life is good. But the problem is why people don't want to live that long is because they, consider it pain and suffering and pain and suffering sucks.

No one wants to live that long with pain and suffering. Well, I want to take your training because I'd like to live to 200 and at that. No. But seriously the energy that you're expressing besides being very uplifting is also very relevant to modern day chiropractic practice because, there's so much stress now, the, you know, the, the, the virus pandemic, and the, financial issues that arose from that, a lot of people having financial stresses. What impact has the Covid 19, era had on your practice?

And tell me how you come back from that so that, I, I, I relocated to Tampa, last year. Right. And I was in California before I did my job in California, moved my practice to Tampa right. So as I'm starting practice, it's growing, and then Covid happens, right? One can easily say it's not meant to be. One can easily say, I'm going to shut down because of Covid or whatever. But you know what I said? I said, double the marketing ads, right now, right? That's right. I said double up. Double up. Because you know why people were getting out?

People were like, oh, let me take a break. So it was a perfect time for a newcomer like me to say, how much do we want to spend on ads? I was like, I want to be everywhere. And everyone was like, dude, you're everywhere. Yeah, like on online, you're everywhere. You're face is everywhere. So what happened is my practice tripled during Covid 19, and the reason why I tripled is because while everyone started to take a break and fatigue, I said, let's crank it up. Let's crank it up. And what I find that's different now is that people are taking health a little bit more seriously because this virus has awakened people to I'm vulnerable at some degree.

Yeah. And how can I not be vulnerable? Maybe this guy has the answer.

Handling Objections, COVID Growth, and the Future of Chiropractic 30:00

Also, massage therapists were shut down in in Florida. So people that go regular to see a massage therapist acupuncturist weren't practiced as much. So it was a great opportunity for people to go, you know, let me try chiropractic. And then boy, did they try it. Now they're here. Now they might be here for life. You know, I love it, I love it. That's like what Warren Buffett says. He says when people are brave, be afraid. When people are afraid, be brave. So yes. So as apparently you took a page out of that book, your nice job.

Tripled your practice. That's pretty good stuff. So, you know, these interviews are designed to extract the essence of our practitioners so that you can share your ideas with, with, what? I expect to be a very vast audience. What are some of the key organizing principles that you use that you have taken from the samurai training and apply specifically in the context of your own work? I think it goes back to the principles of chiropractic is the only person that you have to be better than is the person you were yesterday.

And anytime that I'm down, anytime that I'm feeling because, I mean, let's be honest, we're all chiropractors. There's some days where you're not into it and and I just bring it and it always comes back to that quote. I just have to be better than I was yesterday. Did I get a little bit better? If the answer is yes, every single day that I'm on the right trajectory. So how I apply this in my life every day is I ask myself that question before I go to bed, and when I wake up, how can I get better?

Did I get better? And and the answer has been yes for quite a while and doesn't mean it needs to look pretty. And I want to talk about that just a little bit, is because stress, acute stress is actually very good for you. There's something called her Mrs.. It's the what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, essentially. Right. So acute stress is actually something that you need to develop your body to optimum. So when you're dealing with life processes that could be challenging and you come up with an idea to solve that problem, and that problem actually becomes effective, what you feel inside is this release of dopamine and serotonin, all these things that you achieved something.

But what sparked that was acute stress. What kills you is chronic stress. The the body doesn't like to be under chronic stress, but acute stress makes you stronger. Think about it like putting your body in weights. Like right? Like lifting weights that acute stress makes your body stronger. A chiropractic adjustment makes your body stronger. Sitting in a hot sauna makes your body stronger. Same thing with dealing with your goals, right? When you come up with your goals and you feel like you can achieve them, then you achieve them. That stress makes you stronger.

So I think there's no life worth living if it doesn't involve ups and downs, because do the downs. My ups are a lot higher and I just really want that to be transparent today. Is that all that I've learned? Like I've been through hell and back, man, I grew up poor is all poor, right? And and to come out of that. And so what I've learned from that, it always stays with me to always stay humble and understand that any given moment, life can be taken away from you. Because I know, because I've been to the depths of hell when I almost died right?

Life can be taken away from you, so live this joyous life. Stress is not a bad thing. Overcome, become stronger. Well, what a wonderful role model you are for your patients and for the doctors that you train. We're coming to the end of this interview, Doctor Paul, but there is one thing I would like to hear from you. You know, as a relative, old timer, I spend a lot of time, you know, thinking back over where chiropractic was 43 years ago when I began. And now here you are in practice, 5 or 6 years.

I remember my vision for what chiropractic would be when I was at your stage in practice. I love to know what you believe the future of chiropractic is. You know, I get this question a lot, and my question is not your typical answer. And you probably know that by talking to me now, I honestly, it goes back to what I said earlier in the interview, is we as chiropractors, we only see 5% or 10% of the population. To me, that's very small. And for us to get wiped out wouldn't be that much of a difficult thing because we see so small of the population.

And our growth as chiropractors sometimes is stalled because we blame our we blame our clients, right? They don't understand it. They don't understand chiropractic. The truth is, we need to get better. That's right. If we get better and we become optimal, I think the future of chiropractic is going to be in the forefront of of health care, right? But I do think we have too many average chiropractors out there, people that are out there that just are just doing it, just just to do it, not really to do it at an optimal level.

And I think if we have a lot of people like that out there in every city, every small town chiropractor is going to go to the next level, because how many people have seen six, seven different chiropractors and didn't have a Wow experience? Yes. So we don't have that many chances. So I really want this profession to blossom. But the truth is, let's put it on ourselves and let's get better as doctors, as professionals, as business people. Because if we do that, I think we're going to be at the forefront of, of this, of this health care profession.

And if we don't, I just, I if we don't, I don't foresee it being what we go for. See this profession being is being at its optimal level. And I know sometimes that doesn't sound like the happiest answer, but the happiness is that is that let's continue to improve and get better and become the best we can be. And our community will be served because of that reason. Well, that's a that's a very sane and sober interpretation. Again, you know, that very few young doctors really can wrap their minds around your very impressive Doctor Paul.

And as a relative, old timer, I feel very confident that our profession is going to succeed because there'll be young leaders like you stepping up to the plate, helping both patients and other doctors alike evolve to the point that they can see things the way you see them. You've been very generous. I really appreciate your insights. You have represented yourself in chiropractic magnificently. Doctor Paulo Feely, thank you for being on the practice upgrade summit. I'm Doctor Dennis, permanent signing off for now.