And when the pandemic started, I thought to myself, okay, we're in a moment where no one has perfect gut health. No one has great vitamin D levels. At least the people around me. So I thought, what's the one thing I can do that would make the biggest difference?

And it was go to the park every day. Move in nature and move our bodies. And so I think when it comes to kids, it's really about kind of modeling for them self-care.

Bringing in these practices, I've now learned. Really, I should have brought them in when they were like 8 or 9, 7 to 8, like there were years. There were maybe I could have indoctrinated more.

Once they're teens, I don't think it's the time anymore for these things. But I also see that they're learning a lot from social media. Welcome to Doctor Talks, the podcast where every episode leads to a healthier you.

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This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most. Hey, welcome to the two curious MDS podcast. I'm Soraya Rahman and I have Alia Evans and Shivani Gupta today.

And, I'm going to just go ahead and give a little bit of an introduction on Doctor Shivani, who's coming to us from Florida. Thank you so much for being here.

And, you created this revolution. Very modern. R u v the program in fusion, a formula is that, fuzed east and West practices of self-care, digestion, for stress, digestion, and metabolism.

And I loved, the way that you really engaged with the practices of are your veda and brought them into the modern world. So I'm really looking forward to talking with you about your, journey so far, and how you've applied these principles to your life itself and, how you see it applying in some of these alternative, and integrative practices going forward.

So welcome to the two curious MD podcast, Shivani. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Welcome, Shivani. And this two KS M. D. podcast is t o to curious because we ask those and ask questions and especially in patient care and integrative medicine, our philosophy is kind of combining all the sciences in the East and West is a perfect combination.

And we do that with ketamine treatments as well as integrative medicine and narrative medicine. So the story of illness and using the arts really to engage in the healing practice is so welcome.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited to talk to both of you. So, Alia, do you want to start with your question? Yeah. Well, at first like to know, you know, the journey of your practice and your development of, of your arts and, and specifically, you mentioned earlier about, the simple things and, you know, curcumin, the natural herbs that we talk about in medicine, and specifically in pain and inflammation, because we do see that as a component of mental health and treatment resistant conditions.

So I'd like to just understand your journey and to becoming, who you are as you are today. So it is nice for audience to know about that progress and that evolution to where you are.

Sure. I grew up in Houston, Texas, and I was the product of an immigrant family. My parents had just moved to the US, and so I grew up in that journey to building the American Dream.

And luckily my parents did pretty well. So we were able to go to India every year or every other year since I was five. So I got to live in these two worlds.

Where in the US, if you get sick, you go to the doctor, you get a prescription, you take your antibiotic for colds or whatever, and it was funny because at any time I went to India, my grandma had a completely different toolkit.

So it was like, take this spoon of tumeric, take this healthy dude, which is turmeric and milk. I'm going to take this spice called Hing and make you my own concoction called Hing Abani, which will settle your stomach from all the issues of life.

I don't need to take a Pepto-Bismol or Pepcid AC. None of the medicines out there on the drugstore shelf. I have my own special toolkit and I always thought, wow, this is two very different worlds.

This is two very different approaches. Who is right? And so I grew up and kept having that happen to me. Two worlds I go to India. I'm one way when I live in America and I'm in school, I'm an American kid.

When I get home, it's all Indian food, all Indian lifestyle. And so finally, by the time I got to college, I was away from my parents living in Boston, and I would get so sick from the cold or from going out with my friends and parties and I thought, something's wrong with me.

I have a different immune system than everybody else. I can't take a flight, I can't travel without having a problem. And that year we were in India visiting for wedding shopping.

Actually, all the cousins were getting married and I remember sitting in this doctor's office, I was disastrously sick. He was this Doctor Gupta who the family would go to.

And he's like, here's your prescription. Take this antibiotic, take these meds, you'll be fine. And there was this voice that just screamed out of me and said, no, I'm not doing this anymore.

I had been battling with gut issues and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me, but when he wrote that prescription down, my whole intuition said no.

And so I asked him. I said, what is the antibiotic you're giving me? He's like, oh, it's this really strong one. It'll handle it. I was like, how about you dump that down a couple notches?

How about we not explode my gut for the 18th time here in India? And then I was like, what are the other 11 meds for? He's like, oh, those are for symptoms.

I said, no, we're not doing this again. I don't need your symptom management. What I need is someone to fix me. And so I told my parents, outside these doors is the land of yoga.

And Urvashi, we're in this ancient system here. It's possible. I see all these articles about people getting healthy. Let's just go figure this out for me.

And so we went on a quest through India. We went north, south, east, west, went to Kerala, studied and fortuitously, the universe sent so many people my way.

So I got to sit at the guru's feet and learn. And I realized I read this very beautiful, valid science. It's just really complicated. And so that's why in the West we're like, who has time for all that stuff?

We don't use it. We don't understand it. It sounds convoluted and weird. And so I realized my job is just to simplify Ayurveda, pull the golden treasures out of it and bring it west.

And so that's what I've been doing for 20 years. And that that is what led me to doing. My master's and I are Vedic sciences. And then when I was sitting in our biology class and I heard all the benefits of our spices in our kitchen, I thought, wow, my kitchen has all that.

That's what my grandma was doing. She was using those same spices. What if I could study the spice that you're saying is so miraculous, and then find applications so that when I go to the doctor, that is what they will give me.

They won't give me medicines that hurt me or have side effects that aren't good for me. They'll give me these alternatives because they'll have science behind it.

So I did. My whole PhD dissertation on turmeric, went into the science for years, became an evangelist, and now in my new life, I get to just teach about our Veda and teach about turmeric.

Wow, that is fascinating. And as you speaking, I'm thinking back also to the time and I'm sure, I'm sure I also, thinking back to the time when, yes, the grandmother's voice and I can remember memories because, I grew up in, in Pakistan part of my years, and I remember my father arguing with his father about why do you go to the Hakim when you can go to this other doctor is Western trained, and they would have constant, you know, arguments about the old medicine that doesn't, you know, that competed with the Western ideas of, of treatment.

And there was always this kind of battle that this was backward. This was, you know, and really the sciences are now we're now looking at that and seeing that, that actually makes a lot of sense.

Why are these plant based herbal medicines? They're in nature. They're there for a reason, and they're supporting the health of the system and not necessarily negating some, not getting rid of things pathologically, but would be supporting the health and would encouraging the healthy component of the body so that it can battle it naturally.

You know, things that we're going to be exposed to and stress being one component of that that, irritates the system. But what we can do naturally to really, engage that I call it heal my, well, you know, the heel heal my well because my well is what needs to heal more than healing the pathology.

And, you know, as physicians in medicine, we do get trained in symptomology, you know, treat that headache, get rid of the headache. But really, what is the headache trying to tell you, what's the message?

End of the headache. And what can we do to understand that more? And then really support what the message is around that headache and not necessarily pathologically denying that symptom is such.

So what it what it what a journey, what a an experience that really brought up a very, very important thing. And it looks like it's been your life mission.

Now absolutely sharing that. I have a question and I just for our audience, how would you summarize this for somebody? The approach evaluated and, the elements of evaluation say, versus, again, we know how it works in Western medicine, but if somebody had to go to and I read a practitioner, what would be their approach in.

Sure. So, you know, there's so many beautiful systems of integrative medicine and I love all of them. There's traditional Chinese medicine and they use acupuncture and traditional Chinese herbs.

We've got chiropractic medicine. We've got Reiki. We've got medical massage, we've got homeopathy, naturopathic. There's so many different categories and I love all of them.

I think they all bring value to the table because we're so bio individual in the we have a whole different toolkit we reach into, we reach into the super spices for sure.

Definitely using herbs as teas and tinctures. But when we want to evaluate someone, it's a very big intake process where we're really looking at their physiology.

How clear are their eyes? What's the strength of their nails? We do a tongue analysis. Is there a white film on the tongue? Are there serrations we're really trying to understand?

Are there any skin issues because skin is a reflection of your gut health. We're also looking at okay, how is this person presenting? Where are they at right now.

And in our video we can also do something called a pulse diagnosis. Reading the pulse to understand what is your those constitution and the doses from our body that are made up of the five elements of nature.

So fire, earth, water, air and ether. And so we take those five elements and combine them into what we call three mind body constitutions. And I read that every single one of us is born with that Constitution, and then through life, through different traumas, different things that happen.

Sometimes we get really out of balance with our main constitution, and our job is just to bring ourselves back to our original nature so we can feel at home in our body and feel our best.

And so those three, those are called vata, bitter and kapha. So here in the West we pronounce it vata. That's someone who's thin and wiry, always on the go, always in motion, air and ether, kind of like a ceiling fan.

They never stop. And there are tendencies will be towards anxiety, constipation, dryness, insomnia, certain things. And so we have certain ways to balance that.

But that person, then you have someone who's the medium body go getter early graying in the hair, reddish skin tone. So pitta people are fire. We have to cool them down.

And it's really important to have that self knowledge and self-understanding so you can reach into the tools, whether it's food, drinks, lifestyle habits, meditation, pranayama, nature walks, whatever that is, to to heal and balance yourself.

And then finally there's kapha Earth energy. This is Earth with water. So this is someone who is bigger boned, stronger, rounder features. This is someone who's very one thing at a time.

They're fiercely loyal and so a comfort person. Most of our support is, let's get your energy moving. Let's get your metabolism moving, and let's help you align to your circadian rhythm.

So I over that really reaches into the dosas circadian rhythm diet. Gut health is a very key piece of our be the and then the super spices. And finally self-care.

We talk a lot about daily self-care rituals that are detoxing, but also help you align to your circadian rhythm. Keep everything more balanced so we stay more whole and healthy and nourished.

Because a lot of times in modern day times, we are just going to fast. We're over stimulated, too much happening, and we never put the brakes in place to really just slow down.

And so one simple thing I teach for my RV there is something called tea time is me time and getting ready. I left my tea cup somewhere, but I normally have a tea cup here and when you pause and grab that cup of tea, there you go.

I encourage everyone just sip a cup with a cup of tea a couple times a day and take a moment. Just ask yourself, how am I doing today? Have I left the room so I get to eat today?

What am I forgetting today? That's important for me and oftentimes would. If you train your intuition, it will give you great answers as to what you need to do.

Might not say cancel that thing you said yes to. You should not go to that on the weekend. And different answers of of what we need for ourselves and our own wholeness.

And so that's where I love our videos. It's really bringing together an entire toolkit of understanding what's wrong, helping you balance it, and then teaching you the lifestyle to maintain that result.

I love that, I love that there's a recognition that everybody's different and that it really determines your temperament or even just that idea of people taking that first step to know, well, what am I?

What's my Constitution? Right. Is that level that we never get to? We just never even think of different bodies as having different tendencies or different and defaults that, you know, if all things were being equal.

And I think about it like, you know, just how quickly, just transgenerational intergenerational, how our grandparents were, you know, acclimated to their surroundings versus how we, with pretty much their same biology, are now acclimating to a completely different set of circumstances.

And what that mismatch, right. That can happen just because, well, this is the food supply that you're in. This is the country you live in. This is the kind of, you know, exercise potential and all of that that you have.

It's it's really, fascinating also just to think of how this is, you know, applicable anywhere. Like you could do it with your primary care. You could do it if you have a cancer diagnosis.

You can even bring this consciousness into like, family. And so I wanted to ask you, what's something that you do on a regular basis that really, you know, kind of represents that to you when you're kind of taking care of yourself or what's your daily ritual?

It's a favorite ritual of your tour. So I have two kids. They are pre-teen and teenage. And it's quite interesting at this age to to understand how to it's a I guess it's like a new world order where I'm not always right and I'm not listen to a majority of the time.

And so it actually is and in a weird way, very freeing because I have so much more time for my care. Like they don't care, they don't want me, they want to sleep till noon.

They're only going to eat two meals. They're already in the fridge ready for them. I guess I will do my rituals and so I make sure I work out almost every day.

I try to lift every other day, or if I can't get to the gym, if I get to my office building, I'll just do laps around my office building in my tennis shoes, put my shoes away and go upstairs to work.

Or, I work across from my CEO at work. We'll say, okay, we had lunch. Let's go for a 30 minute walk to process and digest, help adjust that blood sugar from that meal.

Why can't all talking meetings be taken walking? If we're a health company, we should be willing to walk for all of our meetings and so that's a new habit we started this year in 2025 that I love because I need more steps.

I need more movement in my day. I would say my favorite rituals are simple ones from my RV that we teach that when you wake up in the morning, hydrate, make sure you have that first bowel movement.

It's so key that gut health is on point. If it's not, we've got lots of little tricks like aloe vera juice, ginger, lemon tea, hot glass of water, anything to get that system moving.

And then once you've brushed your teeth, we recommend using a copper tongue scraper. And that one habit is just scraping your tongue gently 7 to 14 times.

We're going to clear the tongue, the taste buds on the tongue. We're going to help ignite the digestive fire. Just like in reflexology, where all the organs are reflected on the bottom of her feet.

In our video, we teach that all those organs are reflected on the tongue. So you're gently massaging and detoxing the organs. But to me, this simple habit is my reminder to myself.

I'm detoxing, I'm doing something good for myself, and I'm going to continue to do good things for myself today. Because otherwise, sometimes you just start the day so fast.

And I find if I don't start the day doing something good, if it's just like caffeinate run, get to work, get to my desk, I almost don't have that time to acclimate.

And so I build a very strict circadian rhythm into my day, and I hold that rhythm whether I travel to business conferences or travel in general. And it's wake up in the morning, always face the sun, kissed the sun, align to my circadian rhythm, hydrate before caffeinated.

Even if that's hydrate as I'm heating my tea kettle for my morning caffeine. That's my hydration point. Making sure a tongue scraper and if it's the weekend oil pulling because I have more time on the weekends.

Oil pulling is just putting, any food grade organic oil in the mouth for 5 to 20 minutes, swishing it around because we knew in our Aveda oral health is heart health.

Oral health is your gut microbiome connection, and things like that. And then I have a lot of self-care rituals for bed. So if it's possible, if everyone's done homework's done and I'm not needed, then I'll take an hour before bed.

And I find I'm a much happier mom when I know that I'm going to get to take care of myself, I'm going to get some me time. I'm going to get some quiet time.

Sometimes I get them home from school and I make a cup of tea, and I going to get in my bed and I just relax in quiet, in a cold room, having that cup of tea before I switch into motherhood.

Because motherhood is a completely different job than being at work all day. Work is actually very easy compared to the holding space for teenagers job.

And so by having a transition point, I find I walk in with the right energy to manage them, work with them, hold space for them. And if I don't take that point and have the switch over and like the deceleration, it's a whole different, whole different energy that we meet each other with.

It's not as good. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I totally am feeling that. And that's actually part of what's in my consciousness for 2025 is just to be more definite about those boundaries and, and like, and, you know, kind of adhering to them because like you said, you know, as you're doing that process of tongue scraping, it's like I'm this is what I'm doing for myself, like reminding and that positive talk as well and confirmation that, yeah, and your body hears those words.

Yeah. Hears that intention to write like so there's kind of like a subconscious process by which you're sending that message to yourself going, I'm cared for it.

Right. And I'm very grateful. Yeah. Am my unasked question and I'm curious, really, because when you mentioned about the Kappa Kappa? Kappa. I imagine that you just kind of temperament type.

And I imagine that we are kind of born with one type. Right? And then, and then things happen in our life and we may move over or may align or may intersect with the other.

Yeah. The dosha types. How does this reflect in personalities or mood conditions when things are off set. So say about the is is a dry you know cold get you know they're light energy air thin I guess having prone to anxiety.

Do we when things happen and they intersect into another type of dosha, how would that represent in terms of mental health and then how what is it which the way to reconstitute?

And there's the dosha. There's three questions. And does a dosha change over I mean, as we age. Right. Do we go to one other type of that? Sure. That the right way to, you know, these are beautiful questions.

Absolutely. So let's dive a little deeper. So when it comes to the three oceans, you're born with your those balance. So for example I would call myself 80% bitter 20% water.

And when I do my dosha quiz on people I'm trying to understand physically, mentally, emotionally where are you? Because in our body that we want to bring body, mind and spirit into alignment.

But it's a grand assumption to say that a fifth person is better in all the three areas of their lives. So I am physically a bit that I'm medium bodied.

I do have a reddish skin tone. I do have early graying. I do have emotionally a lot of bitter tendencies. A bitter will be someone who gets angry easily.

They get frustrated. They get hangry. They get overwhelmed. They explode. Like everything that defines a volcano defines a bitter until they learn this art of self-management.

So that's probably why I build such a strict rhythm into my day. Because if I stay hydrated and fed, I'm a really great person. But the minute I don't get food for six hours at a time, boom, the the reaction will come out.

And so bitter is one of those things where we can understand or if you understand yourself emotionally, you'll manage your food and actions better mentally a bit.

The person is a go getter, fiery, ambitious, driven. They have 50 million ideas. They're ready to drive their team crazy because they can't possibly do everything.

But the bit, the ones. Now what happens? I as a data had kids. I gained 40 pounds. I slowed my whole life down to the speed of molasses. So once I had my first child, everyone around me was like, what?

Are you getting back to work? When are you getting back to doing what you do? And it took me the final understanding of, I'm having a kapha in imbalance.

I have moved completely into earth energy, which is normal. When you have a kid, you're going to pick up a lot of guff for tendencies. But how do you then slowly walk yourself back to your original dosha at birth and then simultaneously, like you said, which is an interesting texture to add in different phases of life.

We're in different, different those seasons and throughout the year, just with circadian rhythm. As the seasons of nature come in, we have different seasons throughout the year.

So let's take the for example, in the summer it's the hottest bit. The people will get really disregulated in the summer it's going to be too hot. We're going to get kind of overblown.

We're going to overheat. It's going to call it caused like meltdowns and shutdowns. And so what I teach my Python crew is don't travel to beaches in the summer, don't sit in the burning heat all day walking into your bitter season beforehand.

Detox for a week. Really. Release the winter season. Enter your new season clean and clear, go through it, and then potentially detox after before the fall season.

And so really, knowing your season is key. In my case, I dropped my schedule down 20%. I travel in the summer more, relax a little because if I don't, I'll be burnt out going into Q3, Q4 and that's not a good thing for me.

Now, when it comes to what does what does are thin and wiry. They have this tendency to be all over the place all day. They won't eat a real meal. So, but the person will be like, I had green juice and I had, you know, some chips and hummus, and I had some carrots and I forgot to have dinner.

And I'm always like, wow, of what? That person is so different a bit that can't get their meals. So with the third person, the homework is three square meals a day, which is actually pretty hard for them to achieve.

They have to work towards it healthy fat, three times a day and a lot. There's always like what, why? And all of a sudden if they can just work with a practitioner and get their diet down, all of a sudden they're grounded, they're more calm.

Yes, they have a lot of ideas and a lot of creativity, but they're able to finish what they start. They're able to feel more nourished, and that anxiety can really calm down as well because otherwise that's hard.

They can be so anxious and emotional all the time. They don't know how to ground their own energy. So it's a lot of grounding practices. Feet in the Earth aligned to your circadian rhythm.

Don't be a night owl staying up all night. And then your next day you're going to fast and you're always surviving on caffeine but not staying grounded.

So that's a lot of the advice that we give to voters. And then we fine tune that. We can also add in teas and herbs and different things to help support a person.

And then a a person is going to have a tendency towards slower metabolism. They have a tendency towards getting jealous of because they're so fiercely loyal to who's around them.

Modern day society says we all have to go at a ramped up speed, which is totally illogical. We have different constitutions, so honoring covert means understanding your one thing at a time.

You're going to have this bigger boned, stronger body. There's nothing wrong with that. That's called the third body type. Don't let society say otherwise.

And so it's interesting with the homework is aligned to that circadian rhythm and wake up and move because gaffer energy is heavy. And the other thing I say to my clients is once you sit down, once a cup, a person sits down at 6:00, 7:00.

Once they get home, they're not going to get up again. They're just not. And so that self battle of like, why can't you get up and work out? Why can't you get up and do X, Y or Z is futile.

Just leave it. Whatever your day is, it ends when you sit and be done. And I experience that firsthand because after kids I was like that. I would sit down and couldn't physically get myself off the couch until I finally reversed myself back into my primary shell.

Which is better. So you're born with your prakruti. You're your birth dosha. Through life, through trauma is different experience. You can get vitiated, imbalanced into your vacuity.

And then our job as practitioners is to assess it, understand it, and reverse you back to heal in body, mind and spirit and then help you remember how to honor your seasons of the year and then your seasons of life.

So, for example, menopause is a vata season. It's very drying. So we complain about drying and all these anxieties and issues. A lot of times that's happening in the menopause transition.

And our point, Niobe, those balance your vata balance the season and bring yourself back to wholeness using adaptogens and things like that. Well, and as you're speaking, I'm thinking, am I am that or a wonder?

You know, I know I can't. I was trying to guess. I was like, I think something, but I'm not sure what I'm I'm having a hard time because I'm thinking I'm actually I feel like I'm both, you know, no, I'm not a couple.

I am definitely high energy on the go bean inquiry. But also, you know, I'm I'm fiery at times, not oh you know, and you could have a primary and a secondary.

So everyone's so different I'm definitely a primary bit the secondary vata. But I hold a lot of earth energy too because I'm a mom and I've got to hold space for a lot of things in my life and home.

Being part of a big family. And I have a dosha quiz on my website. So at Doctor shivani.com, anyone can take the quiz and it'll tell you. Well, yeah, I love that.

I love that there's this understanding that there's also seasons to our lives, right? That you can honor a different part of yourself. You can expect that.

Yeah. Your body's going to have different times when it switches into a different gear, whether through motherhood or menopause. What is your kind of, okay.

You know, you know, corresponding, understanding of the teenage years, like, how do you apply this to that changing body, you know, is there more pitta overall in all kids?

Like, are we talking about, you know, just like a greater tendency to for those things to arise. Yeah. I mean it's such a time of transformation. It's such a time of change that feels like a very bitter time of life.

And, and they're going through so much and there's so much bubbling and change. And so, yeah, it's it's really for me as a mother, I work so hard at grounding the kids.

Whatever I can do to get them in nature. They laugh at me. They're like, I'm not taking my shoes off at the park and walking around like, you know, I'm like, just, you know, Mother Earth is the ultimate healer.

I don't even have to do anything if you could just do this one thing. So the more I can get them to the beach or in nature, I do, because I know that that's the biggest healer.

And when the pandemic started, I thought to myself, okay, we're in a moment where no one has perfect gut health, no one has great vitamin D levels, at least the people around me.

So I thought, what's the one thing I can do that would make the biggest difference? And it was go to the park every day, move in nature and move our bodies.

And so I think when it comes to kids, it's really about kind of modeling for them self-care, bringing in these practices. I've now learned, really, I should have brought them in when they were like 8 or 9, 7 to 8, like there were years there were maybe I could have indoctrinated more.

Once they're teens, I don't think it's the time anymore for these things. But I also see that they're learning a lot from social media. And so at this point, I just saw an Instagram Reels across like this person said, tongue scraping works just to teach them.

I love that. Use what you got. Yeah, yeah for sure. I just did your quiz on your website and it's because I'm a kid that those are predominant. Yeah, I thought so.

Yeah. Wow. What an amazing. You know, I mean, and and I'm integrative trained. Right. So and, and do a lot of functional testing. So when we look at epigenetic markers, you know, there is there is actually a correlation or to, to that, you know, when we talk about MTF HR, which is a very it's an methylation if you heard of it, MTB methylation or a marker that slows down, you know, methylation, which is DNA cell repair.

And so it affects production of other hormones and neurotransmitters. And some people are, you know, it's quite common to see that in depression and anxiety.

And then there's a Comt, you know, epigenome, epigenetic markers and people who are slow metabolize or, or fast metabolize or come are either ADHD or anxious, you know, so depending on how they do, how they break down those neurotransmitters in the synapse.

And then there's the people who have who can't detox, you know, who have the Dow. They did the A0 enzyme, then the several others as many hundreds of others, you know, epigenetic markers.

But it it correlates truly to the symptom pathology I guess you're describing. Right. But then I'm curious to see, well, what decides that temperament, you know, is it something spiritual?

Is it something, innate? That basic dosha. What would what are your thoughts around that? You know, it's it's so interesting. You mentioned functional testing.

It's something I'm studying in this year because I see such a beautiful place where functional medicine, integrative medicine, all that testing you're talking about.

I've done it all on myself, working with functional practitioners. So I know my Dutch test, my blood test, my stool test, my DNA test. I've done full body MRI.

I'm like anything interesting I can learn. I want to learn it because then I can either prevent or I can work around it. But DNA testing has taught me so much around what I need to change that I just would never have known otherwise.

So yeah, when it comes to Ayurveda, we teach that the dosas are decided at birth and so the two parents walking in, it's the combination of their two areas that's the very physical part of it.

And then I do think that from the spiritual standpoint, it's it's who they are as parents are meant to call in what is their karma of what they're meant to bring here.

And it's interesting, my parents are both very bitter. They were very successful entrepreneurs together. And so what did they create was two bit their daughters who are driven, focused.

We have different templates. She's very one way and I'm very the other. I'm much more impact driven and she's just really good at being successful and and joyful.

And so it's just it's interesting that the combo of how you pull that together based on the parent companies. So there is a temperament and whether there's the other aspect of epigenetic change, right?

Happens because of environmental. And that's a maybe a trauma response. For instance, you know, we're not designed or, you know, we're not designed to overeat, right?

And that's why diabetes is so rampant in South Asian cultures. Because where our epigenetic markers are really generationally affected by, being in a starved state, so that when but when we are over fed or, you know, we have access to food that becomes conditioned that we our body cannot handle, and it kind of describes, again, the same thing, the, you know, the shifting of the, of the dosha to something else.

And then how do we bring it back to its natural state? I love that, you know, what we're talking about is separated by 2000 years, right. Like, how old is I?

Rather like 1500 or I repeat those 5 to 6000 years old now. And it's so interesting because it predates traditional Chinese medicine. And then those sciences developed alongside.

And it's just so fascinating to me because when you're sitting in PubMed, I just read a whole book for hay House that will come out in January 2026, and it's all about inflammation.

And I read this. So I've been for the last six months or so in the science pulling, the science reading. And there's people who have written those quizzes now that they're trying to standardize for all clinical trials, so that if someone was open in their trial to test dosha, you can make a correlation between dosha and disease.

Dosha and epigenetics would be so fascinating. I would love to dive into that in this life. But yeah, we have so much modern day science proving the benefits of Ayurveda, gut microbiome, and RB.

This at gut is everything I read said gut is your mood and your brain and everything. And now we know vagus nerve and gut brain axis or just the super spices.

We have so much science behind the ear. Vedic botanicals. And what's cool is in all of India when you go now, those botanical companies are understanding they have to study the herbs at the same level of science as pharmaceuticals for them to be trusted.

Because we're in modern day times and we're educated, we want things to be safe and standardized when we're going to take them. And so that's what I love, is when I recently was in India, I met with my suppliers and they said, yeah, we have every scientific study on turmeric. What would you like?

And I'm like, well, I want to show that this can be effective for pain, that this can be effective for inflammation. And we have over 17,000 scientific studies in the literature on turmeric alone.

So that just shows you that the ancient is valid. The ancient is right here in front of us, and that science around it that validates, that is exploding in the here and now.

Yeah. Are you able to break down those different spices? I'm sure. Based on the, the dosha type, you know, we do some times we take those spices, we actually do we do recommend so that that person, for example, would do very well with the adaptogens.

So ashwagandha for example, is this adaptogen. If you're stressed and anxious it calms you down. If you're depressed and low, it lifts you up. It's calming.

So any of those herbs and spices that are more calming and grounding and supportive of the nervous system would be beautiful for that person, even, for example, nutmeg, cumin, any of these earthy or spices are beautiful for about that person a bit the person.

We're all fire, so everything cooling. Again, adaptogens have a role because we can get real stressed, real anxious about things. So it will calm us down a couple notches and keep us focused.

But we also have cooling herbs like the sea is very cooling. I have a tea I developed called Menopause Support Tea, and it has shut that very leaky. Leaky.

And there's cooling to cool those, you know, symptoms that we can have during menopause phase. But yeah, I Aveda has shown us that like the bit the crew needs aloe vera juice, coconut water, cucumber, anything that can cool us down and then kapha we want to ignite, we want to get them in motion.

So turmeric can do that is turmeric is a little warming to the system, but it's going to help clean and clear and move as well. It increases blood flow in the body.

So it's beneficial in those ways to what else? Ginger. Ginger is very anti-inflammatory, has a lot of gut benefits as well for gaffer. So any of these warming spices would be beneficial for them.

So yes, you can customize into the dosas in this modern day time. I don't usually customize into the dosas. I find all the herbs that are three that are beneficial for all.

To me, turmeric is beneficial for all because it's anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal, anti candida, anti pylori. It helps kill off zombie cells that accumulate in our system and wreak havoc and cause damage.

So turmeric is obviously the one I know best. And I think it's good for everybody. And the only contraindication is if you're on a blood thinner don't take to market is a vasodilator.

So increases that. Nitric oxide supports gut membrane. And we know it has a great role with neurocognitive support and brain health as well. So I lean into turmeric first.

Ginger is my other favorite ashwagandha is my other favorite. And then I start going down the list of, you know, are you using spices in your cooking?

And when you take your turmeric, make sure you do so with black pepper or a healthy fat to increase that absorption. So I always try to remember that like here in the West, we just don't use enough spices.

Part of my mission is just to show us to use more spices. And then when you are using those spices, if it comes to turmeric, make sure you take it in the right dosage to get the right benefits.

Right? It's so important to know how it works in the body and also what the best delivery mechanism is. And I'm just like, right? I'm just thinking back, you know, imaginatively, like two, 300 years ago here is this is your grandma's toolbox, right.

Like this is your great, great, great grandma's toolbox. And she's just making the food and she's infusing it with the food that will appeal to her grandchild.

You know, like, the greatest trade food is kedgeree, which, you know, it has turmeric and warming spices. And it's the first food sometimes that we give to our children.

You know, it has protein, has healthy fat, and and so it's just it's just like this full circle moment, I think for all of us to kind of just recognize like, and, you know, I have a story about this, like, I sprained my ankle when I was in Bangladesh once and I was 11 years old, and I saw it, like starting to blow up, you know?

And my dad, just told my grandma, just make a paste of turmeric. And she just had the turmeric that looks like this piece of ginger. And she just put it on the, you know, grinding things.

He made a poultice and literally my, my ankle was just like football, okay? It was like it was painful. I couldn't walk on it. He puts it on, he bandages it, you know, and he's a Western trained doctor.

But he's also been raised in Bangladesh, in the village and knowledgeable about all of this. And literally it blew my mind. The next morning I wake up, I'm like, my ankle is yellow, the swelling is gone and I can walk on it like it doesn't even hurt anymore.

I know, like, what is this? Right? Like that was as a child to kind of just recognize like your body works magically and if you know how to work with it, you can do crazy things.

I mean, you know, and in Western medicine, that ankle would keep me off my feet for six weeks, right? Right. While all I did was just maybe rested and ice it and all of that.

But I definitely wouldn't have been walking the next day. Right. You know, and so why don't we, you know, think in this way. And I just love that you've taken it into the orthopedic and the room into logical realm, because those are the two places right where you're like, these are embodied diseases, like, these are diseases coming out in your body.

So what are the conditions that you're seeing, like most helped by in these? You know, when I when I first finished my PhD, everyone would come to me and say, okay, well which turmeric should I take?

And I would say, you know, I don't, I don't know, I, I always buy different brands at Whole Foods and the grocery store and I hope that they're good. And so people started sending me their labels and I started evaluating them.

And I realized there's a big range of turmeric supplementation. And out of the entire turmeric plant, only 3% of it is the humanoids. And we know that those humanoids are the most effective at reducing inflammation.

But a lot of supplements will just say curcumin longer. And that's the plant name. So they're giving you 1500 milligrams of regular turmeric. And if you're Indian I mean we're using it by the teaspoonful.

So why would you stick a little bit in a tiny veggie cap and say that that's enough for us. That doesn't make sense. And like you said, our grandmas knew how to heal us.

Turmeric topically is very effective, but turmeric ingested in modern day times with the level of environmental toxins and burden and stressors that we have, in my opinion, is not enough.

So although my household is using turmeric, we use it in the food every day. That's not enough for the level of chronic, low grade, persistent inflammation that we're seeing.

Most people carry right now. And so I really do look at it as take 1000mg of curcumin a day at the highest dosage, at the highest potency, where those curcumin oils are in the right proportion.

And that's where a lot of supplements play games. We know in the supplement world right now, a lot of supplements are just designed for profit. They're not actually designed with the intention of let me show the world what that can do.

And so when I built my formula, I just wanted to show orthopedics that when I get hurt, we don't have to say and says for ten days and give me stomach aches, which is what was happening to me when I got plantar fasciitis.

When I threw out my back, they were like, don't worry, just take that for ten days. Two weeks, you'll be fine. I wasn't fine, I was getting really bad stomach aches.

And so I was designing for that level of potency. And now over ten years that I've been giving this to people, they told me they can walk again. Their back pain is gone.

Their chronic joint pain is gone. This like holds them pain free. For people like me. It's all about my immune system. I just need a defensive shield.

And I feel good that no matter what the kids bring home, whatever virus it is, I don't get it. And that's really key. I can travel without any fear around that issue.

And then I also take it for an anti-aging. I feel like as we age, we know we're inflamed, aging, and people always around me or like, I'm tired, I'm stiff, I wake up tired.

And for me, I really want to have energy throughout the day. I want to have my brain on and focused, and I want the energy to enjoy my loved ones. And so I take turmeric just to stay healthy and whole so that I have that energy for everything.

It's very interesting. How are diets? The sad American diet, which is the standard American, has really, you know, deep, you know, when we're less away from the natural or more into them again, inflammatory foods like sugar and gluten and, processed food, and not really adding in that natural herbs that are there.

And then, then, then there's that question, which is yet another unasked question, right? Is, for instance, saffron when I, I, when I prescribe saffron, curcumin for patients, for depression and for anxiety and for the inflammation component and for their gut, you know, to reinstitute their gut.

Some people are, you know, and I think it maybe have a genetic component to it, that some people are more sensitive to that dose versus somebody else.

Yeah. And I wonder if that has to do again with their exposure generation or exposure requirement, I guess. Right. What are your thoughts on, you know, the dose adjustments needed for different, you know, ethnicities or different genetic phenotypes?

You know, it is something I think about a lot, which is I'm Indian and of course I read the resonates with me the best. I'm Indian and it's from my own home country.

I do think that from the science we're seeing when we extract from these botanicals and standardize it, it's beneficial to everybody. But I also think you're right.

I mean, I see it as a gut microbiome issue. So when I meet people, sometimes they're like, whoa, I took your turmeric. And the next morning I felt it.

And that's typically a water template. She drinks green juice all day. She's very lean, so anything she takes, she's sensitive to. And then I would say the majority of the population tells me, you know what?

After a week, I started to feel different. I was less stiff. I started to feel like I could wake up and I didn't have anything holding me back from just getting out of bed or where my joint pains gone.

I'm staying on it. And then there are some people who. It takes even longer. It just takes time. Or they're like, you know what? I actually feel nothing.

But I know it's good for me, so I'm just taking it as my preventive. So yes, I do think there's an ethnic component, and I think it's going to be interesting as we learn and do more DNA testing around the world to understand that.

What's interesting is I was just in Mumbai and when they were testing this new ingredient that I was learning about, it was like a combination of base willia with another ingredient.

They were doing DNA testing on those 10,000 patients in their study. And so I'm so curious later how they're going to correlate that data. If you can correlate DNA to those.

Yeah, to joint pain, to what works and doesn't work, you can get that level of data that you're talking about. So there is a passion there and there is an interest.

And maybe people like me who care about that answer, which has no real use, but it's just an interesting question. We'll get that answer because then we could customize.

You're right. We could customize our recommendations to people based on what we know. Like if you're African American versus Indian versus Eastern European or European like, how would the same recommendation out of botanicals or drugs be customized to you?

Yeah, yeah, there's this amazing, graphic that I, came across. And it shows, you know, 30 years ago how many pieces of data, you needed or had available in general or average per patient to make the decisions.

And now how many pieces of data do you have? And it's on the level of like 10 to 10,000. Yeah. Right. So the potential for us to be able to take a bunch of people and look at, okay, this is your category, this is your category, this is your category.

Because we have the genetics like you were talking about the chemistry, the biochemistry, the biochemical piece. Oh, and here's the expression of it. And then you can also be like, oh, let's test what dosage of this one particular medicine works best and what does it do.

And and there's just this kind of explosion of what's available right now. And I think the more we know and, yeah, you're kind of at the forefront of connecting these patterns with mental health.

Which is really cool. So do you have patients, or people sravani that come to you with, you know, kind of particularly mental health diagnoses or how do you kind of incorporate all of this into a mental health paradigm for them?

You know, a lot of times when people find me in book and I review the lifestyle consultation, it's because they aren't getting the answers they want. Like what they want is more energy, less brain fog, less sluggishness, or they have big sleep problems.

They don't always come at it saying the mental health piece of it. They come at it from the disease state first. And so I always sit down with them and say, okay, let's do an intake.

Let's, let's understand what it is you're asking me for. And in my case, it's a lifestyle consultation. I'm not giving medical advice. So what what's cool is I'm able to lean on my intuition, and my intuition usually comes out with a very specific answer for the person.

90% of the time I get an answer, and sometimes I don't want to say the answer because the answer's so out of scope. So one time I was talking to someone, she described all these menopause symptoms to me and what was happening in her personal life.

And I said, you know, the answer, which I don't want to say to you is you need to get the divorce. And it's screaming. So I have to say it to you. I'd like to say a lot of other health tips like ashwagandha, ovary and the herbs, but I'm going to say that one first because my intuition is like, that's the thing.

And she later came back to me and she goes, you were completely right. It wasn't menopause symptoms. It was actually a big mental health blockage I was in called.

I knew I had to leave the marriage, but I just didn't want to because of all the logistics of it. The minute I did, I was free and happy and healthy. So to me, it's more about how do I show you that your original dosha, in most cases, it's your original dosha that's imbalanced.

And once we bring you back to whole, you're not anxious, you're not stressed, you're not overwhelmed. You're just you. And you learn how to build this new rhythm into your life.

That creates ease, that creates flow, that magnetize these things to you. Because that's been the biggest gift to me from my orbit. The body, mind and spirit into alignment, to me feels like true spiritual access.

It feels like lightness, feels like wholeness, trust, faith. And that's what I want for everyone is to have this energy of I can do anything. And I feel so good that I have all this excess energy to give to others.

But we have to feel balanced into ourselves to get to that giving point. And so that's where when I sit with clients, I'm really just trying to understand, where are you at?

Is it inflammation is the root cause or is it sleep? Can I just fix your circadian rhythm? Can we get there from there? And a lot of times I partner with functional medicine MDS because I want the peace that's serious covered.

And I can intuitively sense like there's a big toxic burden this person needs to get tested for mold and heavy metal. There's something there happening.

And I'm not the girl for that. I'm here when they're done with that, and we can come and put the lifestyle in place to hold that resolve and root cause medicine and supportive of natural health.

Really first steps, I think. Well, it was great talking to you and asking these unanswered questions and just being curious about what we can do better in mental health and integrating the sciences of East and West.

It's something that's very natural and very, makes sense, I think, very and I am I'm looking even at your, visionary formula and the ultimate guide to understanding inflammation.

A lot of times when I'm studying patients on ketamine treatments, it's really the first intake is preparing your body for treatment and, having them on an anti inflammatory diet.

So by the time they start, they're already feeling better. And so with ketamine, we get a deeper and more robust response. We actually seen this when we started our treatments that the patients who actually had a healthier diet, even if they weren't healthy eating before, but the weeks before their treatment, if they were on and on on a decent minimum of the anti-inflammatory diet, we got it within, within a few sessions, they would be much, much better.

And they had a durable, you know, response. So it lasted longer. But and with their ketamine treatment, which is also an anti-inflammatory agent and works again deeper into wherever it needs to go in the body where they where the inflammation lives.

I love this moment where we're kind of integrating knowledge. Right? And, Shivani, I just love how you're carrying both and not just carrying both and trying to fuze fuze.

Which fusion or formulas is also kind of a very beautiful name, but kind of translating it. It's you're right. It's like it is. I've tried to learn, your body, the, you know, the different parts that you're talking about, some kind of grasping some of it.

And I remember reading and going, this is so complicated. I need somebody to simplify this for me so I can just incorporate it into my life without having to learn a whole science, you know?

And you've done it for us. So for that, I'm just really grateful. And you hold it so well. And, you know, I can just see that spark in you like I'm taking notes over here is like, what I'm going to do better starting tomorrow.

Okay. So inspiring. Awesome. Thank you. And I love hearing how anti-inflammatory diet anti-inflammatory supports what you're doing. I think that's amazing.

That is that fusion dairy world I'm looking for are refusing. East and West are refusing our knowledge and our understandings. And it sounds like both of you are on this frontier of health, that that I have no idea about.

I've heard about ketamine and mental health and these things. And I just love that we're on all these frontiers around health, because oftentimes we need a big toolkit to deal with what people have going on.

The level of toxin burden and inflammation in society is causing a lot of issues. And so to have each different toolkit available, I think is incredible.

So it's been lovely to meet you both. Thank you. And thank you. If you go ahead. And I love that we're giving a shout out to our grandparents and our and our ancestry and the indigenous practices that we are benefiting from.

So even in gratitude for that, and kind of seeing this full circle moment, you know, where, yes, we may have lost our way, but we're finding our way back and how fortunate we are to be doing that.

I didn't mean to interrupt you earlier, but I want to ask. I think I wanted to say shout out to, you know, the ancient arts that, really, really have already demonstrated 5000 years of, you know, of evidence.

We're just coming back to it in a very wholesome, beautiful way. We're recognizing that the industrial current diet is not healthy, and we are seeing the mental health epidemic partly and strongly resulting from just what we put in our bodies and what we expose our bodies to.

So it makes it makes 100% sense if patients had to come to you, if we had to refer to you, we're in California, you're in Florida. What would be, best way for us or even I mean, part of what we, we do with the podcast and is, is building a network.

So we, you know, we know and connect to the sciences because we know also conventionally trained and I, I'm sitting here in the hospital and there is so much that's not known even here in front line work, you know.

True. And it's it's just about sharing this wisdom with anyone. So my website is Shivani Burchell. My name is Shivani Gupta and I'm at doctor Dot. Shivani Gupta on Instagram, and I have the Fusion Airy Health podcast as another place where people can find a lot of this incredible integrative wisdom that you're talking about.

I, I love building a network of practitioners that are open, and we're all learning from each other different approaches, so we can send each other clients and people who need help.

And then finally, I have fusion airy formulas F, u, S, L and r y that fuzes east and west ancient turmeric with the modern science of it to give people results.

Thank you. Beautiful. Thank you, thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So another great episode. I'm going to go ahead and pause. Stop the recording.

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Ayurveda and Turmeric: An Ancient Science in the Modern Era

Shivani Gupta, PhD

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