Hi everyone. It's Dr. Jen. Welcome back to the integrative health podcast with Dr. Jen. And today we're going to be talking to Courtney. Courtney is a former yacht chef turned homeschooling mama and carnivore content creator.

You would know her on Instagram as Courtney Luna. She shares her recipes and health journey as she strives for optimal health with a meat-based diet. She's down 55 pounds, offments for depression and anxiety, cleared her acne, and ended her 25 years of yo-yo dieting.

She has a long history of yo-yo dieting and finally found the end of the road of what works best for her. Her days are no longer filled with obsessing about food, and she now helps others try to break free from carbon sugar addictions.

She shares her passion of food and creative recipes to keep the carnivore lifestyle sustainable. Her first cookbook, Carnivore in the Kitchen, is set to be published October 1st, 2024. Welcome Courtney, thank you for being here.

Hi, thanks for having me. I'm, I'm stoked to chat with you today. I am overly caffeinated and I'm a little riled up cause that was just in my YouTube comments.

So yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready to do this. Let's go. Right, right. And I, so I met Courtney just for a little bit. Like we talked a few times at the hack your health event in Austin and I've been following her like the last year on social media and just love her passion and just her like, I just think it's so like, I just, I just love it.

Cause you're not like afraid of the hate you get, which is kind of a lot, right? Yeah. Yeah. I get a lot of horrible comments and it used to be really bad in the beginning and I would take it really bad and personal.

And I still have my moments where it's, you know, the ones that hurt are when they're laughing and making fun of your insecurities. But yeah, I'm not arguing because I'm trying to stay out of it, but going back and forth with someone over cinnamon right now.

Really? Cinnamon is your concern right now. They're like, oh, your carnivore cinnamon rolls. They're not carnivore this, that. I'm like, oh my gosh. You just sound very bitter.

Oh, the carnivore police? yes yeah and it's like why do they care that's what i love about okay you guys have to follow her instagram because when you you you do like life in the day or you know a day in the life and it's really helpful but then you're like oh a pickle carnivore police it's so funny it makes me laugh Yeah, I feel like some people, even in this space, you know, they're fellow carnivores and they're just so self-righteous.

Like this person that I was talking to this morning, it's like they only eat meat and eggs. It's like, okay, congratulations. But everybody's journey on carnivore looks different.

A lot of people include spices. And I actually don't do much spices anymore, but yeah, carnivore cinnamon rolls are gonna have cinnamon in them, you know, clearly.

And it's like, that's the bone you're gonna pick with me. Like, can't we come together to just help spread the message of carnivore so people know it's an option and not argue over a spice?

Like, give me a break. Yeah, I agree. And it's maybe like they're bitter, right? They're like looking in a mirror. They're like, oh, I want to have cinnamon, I'm just holding fast to this carnivore.

It's almost like religion, right? Yes. When people are so strict and it's like, that's going to turn people off. Yes. Let's not act like vegans. This doesn't need to be our religion, our ideology.

Yeah. And that's funny that you say bitter because I said that to them. I'm like, you just sound so bitter. Let's spread some joy. And I think it is. like you said, looking into a mirror, they're grasping so hard onto, I just have to have meat and eggs.

And so maybe they're feeling a little jealous that they can't eat cinnamon rolls. Yes. Yes. Or maybe they could if they try. Or they think they can't eat.

Yes. Right. Right. And that's what I thought was interesting. When I went to Hack Your Health and there were all these carnivores and then a lot of keto people, and even within there's controversy, but all the speakers got along and they all loved each other because they're spreading the word.

There wasn't like, you know, I thought there'd be like drama between, you know, more keto and carnivore and there wasn't because it's just helping people heal.

And that's what it's all about. Yeah. And we all have that meat-based thing in common. We're all eating meat. We're all passionate about that. We're all eating lower carb.

We're not doing standard American diet. All foods fit. So yes, there is that common ground. And I'm sure there's internal judging. I bet some carnivores think that the keto people should be carnivore and vice versa.

I think that's fine. We all have what works best for us. And I don't think we should be dogmatic about it. Like you said, that can put people off. Let's not scare people away from this way of eating.

Let's just embrace each other, because it's all bio individual. And we all feel better eating a certain way. So let's not judge other people's journeys.

It's ridiculous. Yeah. Oh, it was hilarious. So I did this, the three day carnivore bar fast. Cause I just, I'm looking for something other than the sardine one and just, it kickstarts you.

Like when you take out processed like food for a couple of days, you feel like a new person. But someone kept commenting that like, why? Cause I, I put how I like lost weight and they're like, you don't need to.

I'm like, They're like, why would you want to do that? And like judging me and I'm like, like, what are you talking about? Like you don't even like know my body and you're just throwing out these comments.

I thought it was funny. And like, you know, people came to like say it was fine. And anyway, it was just making me laugh because I'm like, people are just so bold on social media and really You know, let's go into why, like, why did you do carnivore?

Because we know it wasn't just to be on social media and get bullied. You do that because you're passionate about it because you want other people to learn.

So what even got you started into this way of eating? Yeah, so I've been low carb keto on and off for seven years. I guess it's probably been nine years now, but it never crossed my path.

Carnivore, I never saw it. Even following bloggers and stuff, I don't know why I was so out of the loop. So I had stopped doing what was working for me.

After the second baby, I lost 50 pounds again for the third time. and doing low carb and I got caught up in the anti-diet culture BS where they're like all foods fit everything in moderation there's no such thing as bad food I'm like yes this is amazing like I can eat croissants in moderation okay well in hindsight I am a sugar addict I need to abstain I can't moderate so when I tried doing that I gained 40 pounds in four months like I literally just went on like a bender I couldn't stop and I didn't care it was actually like very gross and sad So then my husband was sending me Dr.

Paul Saladino's TikToks and we didn't even talk about it. And after a month, I'm like, why are you sending me these? Like, this is so weird. Should we not be eating vegetables?

He's like, I don't know, I need to do research. So, you know, like everyone else, he goes to YouTube University and he's like, let's give this a shot.

So I started it for just weight loss purposes. You know, I was overweight, feeling like crap. I feel like I've always kind of done that. Like I think I equated having a thin body to being healthy.

So I did this just to lose the weight and all the other health benefits that came, I was just blown away because I didn't know it would be a thing. I wasn't following other carnivore influencers, so I didn't know all the things that they were preaching that could happen.

So I was actually surprised when I'm like, oh my gosh, my mental health seems a little bit better. You know, I was on Zoloft like 100 milligrams and it just numbed me out so much.

So I lowered it to 25, which wasn't enough, but that's just what I did. So I could feel a difference like just after a month. And this was even after having some fruit.

I was animal based for five weeks having, you know, under 75 grams of carbs of fruit. So like seeing that change and my skin clear up, I've had acne like my whole life and the food freedom I felt, which people don't understand because they're like, how do you have food freedom when you're not eating all the things?

And to me, food freedom is to not be unable, not obsessing over it all day. or trying to fit donuts into my macros or trying to have a bite and not binge or binging on them and, you know, restricting the next day.

So yeah, started it for weight loss, but got so many health benefits from it that it's like, I can't, there's no way I'm going back to eating how I was before.

Right. And I love that you talk about like, you can't moderate you just like, because think about addicts, right? Think about alcohol. You can't just have one drink.

It leads to five and sugar is addictive. It's as addictive as heroin. I mean, they did studies on mice on this. So when it's so frustrating when we You know, we tempt people with bad foods or you go to a friend's house or to church and it's donuts and it's all this stuff.

That's like it's addictive. It's in your face all the time. And when you're when you're just limiting, it doesn't work when it's everywhere. So like, I like how you brought that up that you know now, like you can't moderate that.

You just have to get rid of it. And I don't think it's not, people might say, oh, it's an eating disorder. It's disordered eating. It's, you know, all this stuff.

And it's like, no, cause you're eating actual real food. Like eating all that processed food should really be the eating disorder. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

And sugar, it's just so, it's a, a widely accepted drug and it truly is a drug. And when I quit drinking, cause there's a reason I, you know, I also can't moderate my alcohol.

That was so like accepted. But you quit sugar and give up sugar and it's like, oh my gosh, we'll just have one or just have a little bite. It's like, would you tell that to me about alcohol?

Like, oh, it's just so sad that you can't have one glass of wine, you know, and they say that about food. So we got a lot of work to do on that because it is a drug and everyone is clearly addicted.

You look around and. I, you know, we just got back from a 12 day road trip. So I saw a lot of the country and I would say 98% of this country is metabolically unwell, you know, so the standard American diet isn't working out for us right now.

Yeah, I read a statistic like 88 million Americans, one in three or something like that is insulin resistant. That's on your way to diabetes. And when I'm still working in the ER, I just sit there and I get so upset.

I'm like, oh my gosh, like all that I'm seeing, I'm not seeing like broken bones and like emergencies like that. I'm just seeing consequences of poor eating and bad metabolic health.

And it's so sad when you see someone with their leg cut off from diabetes, ulcers on their bottom because they're in a wheelchair from diabetes and kidney failure and all that.

And you're like, this could have been prevented in your 20s and your 30s. But instead, people are freaking out about people eating steak. It doesn't make any sense.

And like, I guess when you look at carnivore, how do you explain this to someone that doesn't know about it or doesn't understand, like, how did you approach like your family and friends, you know, especially if they weren't watching you on your social media?

Yeah, I think, you know, people are curious and after a while when they see, you know, because you can't see someone's internal health benefits they've been having, but you can see weight loss.

So if there is a significant weight loss, it's like, oh, okay, what did you do? Like now maybe I want to listen. I've had like zero pushback from people in my real life.

I mean, I don't know what they're saying behind my back, but I haven't had anybody like be weird or rude about it to me. They're just curious because it's like, wait, you don't have any vegetables?

And you know what? I've slowly, like family members have started eating this way. And that's not from me saying anything or pushing it because that is the exact opposite of what you need to do.

You just need to live your life and people will get curious. So like my aunts are carnivore now, My parents have been keto for a while. My mom's like keto-vore.

And it's starting to trickle, and people are getting interested. But yeah, I think we've been brainwashed, I guess, to believe that butter is bad and meat is bad when it's really how we've been designed, what we should be eating.

It's a proper human diet, as Barry calls it. Yeah, and I love like Weston A. Price Foundation. They talk about, you know, actually eating meat and cheeses and raw milk and everything.

And people look at you and they're like, what? And it's like, yes, we need to chew our meat. Our jaw structures are terrible. You know, everyone has teeth crowding now because we're not actually like chewing our food.

Everything's like processed and mush. And it's so hard though to explain to people you know, why we need to get rid of processed food. Even I've been gluten-free for 15 years and even that just explaining and educating that.

And that's why I kind of like the carnivore and animal-based diets as a prescription even, because they can't eat the carbs and the processed sugar. You're just, all of that's going out, but they're eating enough fat that they're super satisfied.

And I think that's what people miss out on. if you're not eating enough fat, then yes, you might have cravings, you might feel hungry, but is that why you did so well?

Because you keep the fat content up. Yeah, definitely having that fat helps. And it's so interesting, you know, in hindsight, looking back at how I ate when I was keto, I didn't really eat a lot of red meat.

I mean, we would have some ground beef, but I did a lot of like chicken and broccoli, but then would eat fat bombs at night, which, you know, why didn't I just eat red meat?

So yeah, I think, you know, helping to get the word out about how nutritious red meat is and how nutrient dense it is. And yes, eat the rainbow of, all the other animals, but we really should be prioritizing ruminant meat because it's going to be the majority of the cuts are going to be fatty and you don't need to add any extra fat.

Um, but yeah, I mean, have some chicken, but maybe have it, you know, with a sauce or something that has butter in it. But yeah, just helping to get the word out that we need to be eating meat and we've been designed, we're designed to eat meat.

And you're so right about like the jaw You know, like, yeah, we're, everyone's eating like soy patties. Like we really need to be like biting into things and chewing and it's just, it affects everything.

I mean, that's a whole other rabbit hole, like the mouth breathing and all that. And it just affects so much more of your body and your gut. Like we really need to get back to like our primal roots, even if it's not carnivore, just eating more of an like ancestral diet would be so beneficial.

Like all the foods they're creating right now, like that's not food. And they're designed to be addictive. Like they have food scientists in there making them be addictive.

And yet people think we need to be eating those in moderation to have a healthy relationship with food. It just, it blows my mind. Sorry, I went off on a tangent on that one.

Yes. No, it's, it's so true. We really just get back to the basics, you know, less ingredients, the better. Now, do you feel like this is more sustainable?

Like how sustainable do you think the carnivore diet is? Or do you think there's different levels and you brought up, you know, Paul Saladino, Dr. Paul Saladino, and he went from strict carnivore, you know, only eating bull testicles and meat.

And now he's eating fruit and even cucumbers and You know, honey, so, you know, how do you feel with how sustainable it is? And do you feel like most go maybe carnivore and they get the healing in and then they go more animal based?

Yeah, I think carnivore is a great tool, like an elimination diet. And some of us just feel good staying this way. Like for me, I can't add in like strawberries.

I will eat the whole container. But I do have like the occasional like pickle. I guess that's it. Or like I'll have a couple olives. So like something that's not sweet.

I think maybe there should be a happy medium from what Saladino is doing. I'm not an expert in all that, but I think he's just eating way too many carbs and sugar.

And yes, he's burning it off. But another rabbit hole to go down to is the Randall effect, which I don't totally understand. The science side of things is not my expertise.

But when you're having high fat and high carb and sugar, that that might not be the best thing. So I think Yeah, for me, I love eating a carnivore diet.

But if that seems a little strict and you want to add a little bit of plant material in, I would, if it were me, pay attention to the oxalates and pay attention to if you're an abstainer or moderator, if you can have that fruit.

But I would keep it at least low carb or even keto, ketovore, just whatever is going to work best for you. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I've noticed too, when I eat more animal based and then maybe like last night I had a little bit of a chocolate chip cookie that my husband wanted me to make to drink with the raw milk, but I had on my glucose monitor and I just wanted to see, I'm like, huh, does it, does it still increase my blood sugar?

Yes. I can't have white sugar at all. I just can't. Right. And it's just how many times do I have to see it on my continuous glucose monitor, just be like, no, I should never eat this again.

And not never, like maybe a piece of my kid's birthday cake or something would be a special occasion. But that is where you have to look inside and be like, will that set me on a binge?

Will this make me unhealthy? Will this mentally cause issues? Because it is, especially for females, it is mental too. Like when you have that sugar and you're on a blood sugar roller coaster, yes, you're gonna be anxious and depressed.

And no, it's not because you need an SSRI or a medication. And I get really passionate about this because women in general, they are just told by their doctor when they have these feelings and they have these complaints that they need to be on an antidepressant and something's wrong with them, but instead they could prescribe a carnivore diet or something to balance their blood sugar and heal their gut.

And, you know, it's just, it's backwards and it's so frustrating. But then you also have people, you know, that are on the internet saying that we can't eat meat.

It's not sustainable. And it's like, it's like the most sustainable thing to eat. Yeah, I mean, yeah, the mental health side of thing, that's like, you know, one of my passions to talk about because I was medicated.

And I'm not even like totally against them. Like, I think there's a time and a place for them. Like, I'm glad in hindsight I did take them. But because I didn't know it better about my diet.

So it did help me. I was in such a dark place. But yeah, more people need to know that your mental health is related to your diet. But people don't even want to hear that because I've shared this on social media.

And they're like, the haters are, how dare you even say that you were able to go off meds because of this diet? They just don't even understand. But it's so obvious.

And I don't know how I didn't even realize it. fuel you're putting in your body like you wouldn't put diesel in your car that takes regular fuel so why are we eating all this crap and expecting to feel wonderful and they say you know depression is inflammation of the brain and when we're eating such a high inflammatory diet with all this processed junk like of course you're not going to feel good so yeah that's why i love you know like chris palmer is you know, getting the word out that your mental health is linked to your diet.

And I wish more people would understand it because even just seeing you know, I'm in I get so many comments a day and I can just see how mentally unwell like so many people are and I can only imagine that people that are leaving these nasty comments.

Like I can't even imagine what their diet is. Like they're probably typing these horrible comments with like Cheeto dust on their fingers, you know? So we have a lot of work to do because people aren't ready to hear it.

I think they're so deep in their addiction. They don't want to hear that what they're eating is affecting their brain. I agree, people don't. I mean, I try to like, I try to make a difference locally.

I like sign up to be in concessions for like the little league of my area. And we had cheese sticks, we had healthy options. I was so just sad. Like people want to eat junk.

Like I would have to buy just cases and cases of Mountain Dew. And I'm telling you, Courtney, I was like, I felt like I'm like, I can't do this. This is poison.

Like a drug dealer. Yes. And, and they would like go through it and people we ran out one day and someone's like, you're out of Mountain Dew. And I'm like, okay, well, like, we'll go get more.

And I just Oh, it was so hard. Now I did make some allergy free choices and people, you know, food die free and people like that. So I did a little bit of change, but there is no changing in Northwest Ohio.

Like people love their high fructose corn syrup and their carbs and their Doritos and their nachos. And I'm like, This is it's so hard. Like, sometimes I just want to move my family to a farm and be like, this is what we're gonna do.

You're not missing out on what the other kids are eating because you don't see what they eat. But I think that's the hard thing with kids. because they mimic what their parents do and their friends.

So it's like, this isn't gonna change until we start advocating and getting the word out. And I know your kids in particular, people are like attacking you for feeding them like really healthy food.

And I'm like, this is bananas. So your kids are probably like animal based is what you would call them, right? yeah like how how did they do with this change like in your house yeah did they notice at all yeah they did and first let me touch on snacks since you're talking about that we're back in soccer season and like a week went by and i'm like oh my gosh are we not doing snacks this is amazing but no i got the email to sign up and i'm like oh my gosh like I am appalled.

Sorry, I am totally judgy about what other people do because, I mean, I had my three-year-old at the time. Okay, here's what was in one of the snack bags, Gatorade, which is sugar, water, and dyes, Cheez-Its, fruit snacks, which I get my kids fruit snacks, but there are fruit snacks that don't have added sugar.

So the ones that were in this bag had like high fructose corn syrup. yeah um rice crispy treats i mean a bag of probably like five different things like they went to cosco or smart and final bought the junk in bulk and it's like oh my gosh like i'm sorry like no one needs gatorade but especially my three-year-old like she cuddled with me half the game she does not need to rehydrate with the gatorade and it's just It's appalling because I'm sorry, they probably eat that way on a regular basis.

This isn't just a treat. It's not a special occasion. And then here I come with my snack and they're probably like, luckily my kid doesn't know to be embarrassed about my food.

So when it's my snack turn, luckily my kid is like not embarrassed by me at this age. You know, he's six, but I'm doing a cheese stick, a meat stick, and maybe like an orange or something.

And I bet all the kids are like, Oh, womp, womp. Like no one's excited about my snacks. And they're going to be excited about the sugar filled ones. But I also feel like I need to like prove a point.

So it's like, yes, these meat sticks, you know, I'm spending like $30 on this snack, but I feel like I'm trying to like show an example too. So, okay.

Do the parents like know who you are and what you do? No, only, only one. So we're on the same team again as someone that does like know and follow me and is like, yeah.

Yeah. And it's somewhat interesting. Isn't that funny? Like, cause you're like, you're like a celebrity, you know? And so, so some people don't even really, yes.

Oh my gosh. Yes. I feel like. I feel, I mean, maybe in this community I am known, but like in the greater world, like no one knows who I am. Right. So you're like incognito.

But yes, with the snacks. Oh, it was kind of funny. We had a snack chain going around. So my kids are all gluten free because my autoimmune history, we are all gluten free.

But it's also like a trick because gluten free like cuts a lot of crap out, you know, but not all of it. You know, there's tons of gluten-free snacks and crap and I can get caught up in that.

You know, my kids are like, we love these gluten-free wafers. And I'm like, oh, you know, it's just hard. A lot of my friends homeschool and they don't have, their kids don't see the other junk that other kids eat.

So they can be more sheltered, but my kids go to school. So it's really, it's a little more difficult. And bringing back the point of, You know, being embarrassed.

Oh, yeah, my 12 year old. Yes, definitely embarrassed about like when I talk about nutrition and food. He's like, Mom, you talk too much. I'm like, because I want to help people.

I see them in the ER. I don't want them to have their leg cut off. Like, I just wish I almost wish there was like a show like that we could like like not like like a reality show where you see people in the year with their legs cut off and suffering and you change your diet now and it's I don't know like it's kind of like how you know they used to put on like like cigarette boxes, didn't they used to put like lung cancer pictures or something?

I feel like every can of pop should have like a toe amputation on it. And these freaking treats, you know, with the kids, the soccer. But but anyway, one of the one of the parents text after I said gluten free, someone was like they were kosher and we're like, that's cool.

But then someone else posted their their kids like sugar free or something. They were just joking. But I was like, that would actually be cool. Like meat sticks for everyone.

Carnivore. Yeah, because I feel like, okay, these allergies are accepted, you know, but me wanting my kids to eat this way, it's like mind blowing for some people.

Like, yeah, I want to say that too. Like we're allergic to red dye and sugar. But yeah, just some of these foods and like the birthday party foods. I'm like, oh my gosh.

I love to eat. I love food. But why does everything have to revolve around food? Why do we have to go to a soccer game and someone else feed my kids? So we accept the soccer snacks and I'll go through it and see if there's anything actually edible in there.

But it's like, can I just be in charge of feeding my own kid? I just don't understand it. Yeah. yeah the snacks are really hard and yeah we do that too we say we're die-free i mean we say well it's an actual allergy for my four-year-old but if you say those things like you can kind of build the snacks you should just be like they're i don't know you could just be like they can't have sugar you know like the one but then they would get nasty sugar-free stuff so it's well so that that's a question i have for you so do you and other carnivores out there.

What about electrolytes sweetened with stevia? Do you ever use allulose? You know, I know like Keto Maria, she uses a lot of allulose in her recipes. So what are your thoughts on that and in the carnivore world on those things?

Yeah, so I went pretty much two years without having any of those and did great. And then I don't know, there's just a point where it's like you think you're doing so good and then you kind of get a little like curious and it can be a slippery slope on letting things back in.

So I was making shakes for my kids that have that and I'm like, OK, maybe I'll just have a little sip. Let's see how I react, which is dumb when you think about it.

So yeah, to answer your question, I have incorporated some Stevia, which I never even liked in the first place. And now I like it. And it's almost slightly addictive.

You just want more of that sweet. If you get rid of all sweet tasting things, you don't have the desire to have it. But if you're having it, even in a keto-friendly sugar, then you want to have more.

My normal diet, I don't have those things. Once in a while, I will have a protein shake that has stevia. I can kind of moderate it now. The first time I tried it, I had three of them in a row and felt sick.

I didn't need that much food, but it was addicting. So yeah, none of my recipes use it. I mean, I do say, hey, if you're going to make my carnivore cinnamon rolls right now, if you want to like sprinkle some swerve on there like have at it but i think for me i'm trying to promote not using that stuff so you know creating things that don't have those fake sweeteners but then you know what i hear that there are health benefits to alulose but i actually have not tried that one we've dabbled in monk fruit but then it sets my kid's tummy so it's like let's just keep it out Yeah, I can't do erythritol.

I had something that was in it by accident. My friend made me gluten-free chocolate chip cookies, brought them to our house, and I'm like, do those chocolate chips have erythritol?

Because our Costco was selling some that had that in there. And she's like, yeah, I'm rolling on the ground. That does not work for me. And I like Stevia among fruit and allulose.

Those are the three I've tested with my continuous glucose monitor. I stay steady. You know, I know there's other like fruit sweetened instead of natural flavors.

You know, they use like fruit to make it that flavor. Those spiked my blood sugar. So I'm more like doing LMNT and Redmond for electrolytes. Now, I know though, in the carnivore community, because you're seasoning your steak with a lot of salt, you technically don't need the electrolytes as much as opposed to people that are doing more keto.

They really, they're like, yeah, you need to have electrolytes. And I always thought that was interesting with the two different diets. Yeah, I was actually talking to a friend about this recently because she's like, I think my electrolytes are out of balance and this and that.

I'm like, well, here's something interesting. So like Bella from Steak and Butter Gang, Dr. Lisa Wiedemann, Dr. Chafee, And so we were talking about this and it's like, okay, so their argument is if we are consuming these electrolytes, then it's confusing our body and our body isn't able to make what it needs properly.

So. I still take them, but it has me wondering if that's the right thing to do. I did notice I didn't. We were just on our 12-day trip, and there was three or four days where I didn't take it.

And I felt at night, I'm like, oh my gosh, if I move my leg anymore, it's going to cramp. So I guess there could be, if you do go off of them, a transition where that might happen, but then your body just adjusts.

So I don't know what the right answer is. Yeah, so I'm taking them. And I do love right now I'm also taking beam minerals because it's minerals and electrolytes.

But I just find it interesting that some people are thriving without them. Yeah. And when it comes to a lot of this too, when I speak with patients and clients and I'm like, it depends on you and where you're at in life too, because I know I'm hustling around with work with kids, you know, for active kids in sports and stuff.

Like I want electrolytes, you know, or Are you working out or how is your stress levels? Are you nutrient depleted because of higher stress than maybe someone else, you know, in their 20s that just does YouTubes all day, right?

Like it's just like different levels. So I don't like it when people compare themselves to influencers, promoters, you know, people like like not to pick on carnivore dog, Paul Saladino, but he doesn't have kids.

He surfs all day and lives on an island. It's just a different level. I talk with my 16 year old a lot about that because I did the carnivore bar challenge and then another guy, he inspired me the life with Jake.

He inspired me to do it because I'm like, this would be easy because it's portable. You're not opening up sardine cans and stuff or you don't have to cook a ribeye.

And I just set my goal for three days because I know my limits. I know I have to cook food for my family. So it was just, it was kind of interesting because I'm like someone that doesn't have kids, it's just different.

So the good thing though about actually like cooking carnivore and meat, like my kids love steak. They like fatty steak now. They eat ribeye instead of filet.

So just keep adding in fat and really savory foods and you'll see your kids change a little bit. Because I know me personally, I didn't like ribeye. I thought it was too fatty.

And now the more fat I eat, the more I crave the fatty cuts of steak. Yeah. I love a good ribeye. And I used to be that way about the fat too, but I wonder, I think it was more like the gristly part, like the chewy part.

Like I don't want that. Like the soft fat that's like butter, like that's amazing. And yeah, my kids love eating this way too. Like my four-year-old she'll be like, fat is flavor.

So they love it. And I feel like, Yeah, having, you know, the fattier meets the better. It's rich and it's salty and it's yummy. And even just like sometimes we'll just throw sour cream on it just to like, that gets them sometimes to eat it a little bit better.

But yeah, I feel like eventually they, they get used to what you're having. I mean, you're as, especially when they're young, like you're in control. of what they're eating.

So we try and teach nutrition and teach macros. My kids do have fruit, but I can see them being little sugar addicts with it. So if they want fruit, it's like, okay, well, let's pair it with a protein.

And yeah, and just teach them that way. And yes, you can have some things here and there that aren't good for your body, but just pay attention to how you're feeling and you don't need to to eat at all, you can stop if your stomach starts to hurt.

And later when they're acting crazy from some birthday cake, it's like, OK, see how you're feeling and acting? This is from the cake. So let's try and make better decisions on our food.

Yeah. Now, how did you do with gut health with this, without the fiber? And then sometimes if people talk about they might have diarrhea when they start carnivore, how did you navigate all of that?

Yeah. I feel like that's such a big topic. Everyone's like, oh my gosh, the fiber, how do you poop? I'm like, how do you poop? Some people are having explosive diarrhea.

We're still going to the bathroom. I feel like the loose stools in the beginning are the most common. I know some people do have constipation, but I feel like it's typically going to be the loose stool.

So yeah, for me, it just seems to be a fat thing. If it is loose, try having three meals instead of one. If you're having one meal, that's a lot of fat at one time.

So spreading out your fat, not having that hot liquid fat, that could just go right through you. chewing your food really well, like the more like your mouth does to break it down, the less your stomach acids have to work.

So yeah, I mean, my, my bathroom habits are normal. I haven't had fiber for over two years now and it's doing just great. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Now you have this awesome cookbook and look at all the things I tagged to me.

I love it. I'm so excited. What are, okay, what are some of your favorite recipes and what about your kids? I personally, like I made the, I love the waffles, like, and you can use them for bread and sandwiches.

But what are some of your favorite recipes? Cause people might be like, oh, This is boring. I just don't want to eat meat all day. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes we just need to be a little creative in the kitchen and, you know, have fun with it.

So I love the cinnamon rolls. There is a lasagna recipe in there that the whole family loves. And there's two pizza crust recipes in there. I love them both.

I was gonna ask, I'm very curious about that, because I saw them both. Okay, because one, it looks like it's a pork panko and cheese, and then the other one's chicken.

So I love chicken pizza, like I get so excited for it, it's so good. but my kids and my husband, like no one else likes it, just me, which is fine. So is the carnisa, is this one a little bit more kid-friendly or which one?

Yeah, that's my favorite. I love the chicken-based one, but my intention with the chicken-based one was for those that don't eat pork because I get a lot of comments like, I don't eat pork for religious reasons, like what do I do?

So I wanted to have one in there that wasn't pork. But I think I also, actually, on the pork one, I might give a sub using chicken flour. Or that might be on something else.

Yes, you do. I can't even remember. Or does the chicken one have dairy? Yeah, I think it has dairy. So I do prefer, they're both great, but I do prefer the carnisa.

It just is a little bit more bread-like, like the crust. Yes, yes. and so yeah my whole family loves that which is like a win like my my one of my kids i can't remember which one my son doesn't love the cinnamon rolls but it's so interesting because it's the same batter it's the same dough as the pizza you're just adding cinnamon but i bet if i sprinkled some sugar on it he'd like it right or you could try the alulose yeah or like the monk fruit i guess i need to get monk fruit that doesn't have the was it erythritol yeah right that it's hard to find that's when i switched to alulose like the rx sugar is what i use because all of the monk fruit seems to have the erythritol mixed in because monk fruit is more expensive so that's why they add the erythritol in but but anyway yeah i really want to try the cinnamon rolls i'm trying to get my husband onto more of a carnivore type diet, because he could do that while eating out, because he eats out a lot for work.

And it's just, he's just stubborn. He needs to just come onto it, you know, on his own. But he just, he doesn't understand that like, he's like, it's only a couple pieces of bread when I eat out with the appetizer.

And I'm like, yeah, that is, stopping your body from being healthy, you know, it's, it's a problem, you know, we don't think about the little things adding up over time.

And that's kind of the culture, you know, Oh, a little bit spine, but, but it's not no Yeah, because you're just having a little bit of poison. Like, oh, just have a little bit of rat poison.

It's fine when you think of it that way. But yeah, that must be hard because I feel like we have the golden ticket. And you just want to shake people and be like, oh my gosh, eat this way.

I have a friend that is constantly having migraines. And I've said before, I'm like, why don't you give this a shot and say, oh, I just don't really like meat.

It's like, well, do you like your migraines better than you think you don't like meat? I just want everyone to give this a shot. You can always go back to how you're eating.

But yeah, it's hard. come to it in their own way, you know, lead the horse to water, sort of thing. And you don't want them to like, if you shove it down their throat, they're going to be a little bit more resistant, like, you know, and so they just have to, yeah, find on their own time.

But yeah, if you make some of these recipes, and he's like, Oh, maybe it wouldn't be that bad if I ate this way. Right. Right. I'm excited for her to try, you know, and it's breaking through those strongholds that people have.

And, you know, wouldn't you rather weigh less, have less inflammation, more concentration and make a little bit of change in your diet. And, you know, it's not, it's not for everyone, but getting the word out, like you said, hopefully we will change more people's minds.

Cause I think animal based is very realistic for everyone, you know, and, and maybe using carnivore as like healing or if you know, in your case, they can't moderate, you know, they, they need to get rid of it.

Then they just need to stay that way. It's better than a chronic disease. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, if you're interested and you have some health issues, use it as an elimination diet.

If you want to add foods back in, then you'll really know how those foods are making you feel. Or maybe you just like carnivore because it's hard to moderate other things.

And I feel like eating this way just takes the food noise away and you're not obsessively thinking about things. But yeah, it doesn't have to be someone's lifestyle.

They can use it as a tool. But don't add Oreos and Cheez-Its back in. Add some low-tox plants if that's what you want to do. Yeah, exactly. And you had brought up oxalates earlier.

And kidney stones with oxalates, it's bad. They're just little sharp crystals that are in certain food. If you're following a health influencer and she's still putting spinach into her smoothies, probably should unfollow them.

I mean, this is just information we know. I had a patient a couple years ago and I told her that she needed to stop having her spinach smoothies and she was like, I can't believe you're telling me that as like an integrative doctor.

And I'm like, yes because oxalates like what like who are you watching what's going on so you have to be careful because not every health influencer out there they they don't know what they're talking about and you know little sharp crystals floating through your bloodstream causing kidney stones not a good idea.

So yeah. And that was me too, even in the low carb keto space. Like, what can I hide spinach in? And let's make a spinach and almond milk shake. But we just, I didn't know better at the time.

You think you're being healthy, but I feel like the message is starting to get out. Whether people ignore it or not, I think they're seeing it and hearing it.

Like even people that have been carnivore, it's interesting when they're still, like they've added back in spinach. I'm like, shouldn't you know better though?

Like, you know, we've talked about this oxalate thing. So it's interesting. Yeah. eat a pickle instead. You'll get electrolytes with that pickle too. I love it.

Yes, a good pickle is good. But I love your passion and I just love how you stick to your guns even though people are coming after you. But the good thing about people making comments and the vegans coming to crash your butter posts and stuff is that it gets you more exposure.

So really, it's a good thing. Yeah, they're helping. And that's what's so funny is, I got this book deal from them finding me on TikTok. And at the time, I was the most hated on that platform.

That was my worst platform. And it's like, well, thank you guys so much. I got all your nasty comments. You helped land me a book deal. So thank you. Keep commenting.

Oh, they're probably so mad. That's awesome. Well, so tell everyone how to find you, your YouTube and Instagram, and you're active on TikTok too, you said, and then how to get your beautiful book.

It's great. Like my kids really like looking through it. I'm like, you know, we're trying to help my eight-year-old just get a little bit more metabolically flexible.

So we're going to be, you know, having, working these in, we're doing one a week. of like a new fun recipe. And we, I mean, we eat like tons of steak and hamburgers, but like, like a fun recipe.

We're adding one a week in and they're picking it out. So it's kind of exciting. Awesome. I love that. Yeah. And they can help you make it. And I feel like that helps kids eat more better when they're like involved in the process too.

So that's awesome. Thank you. So yeah, I am everywhere. I am on Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, TikTok, Twitter, Twitter. I can't say X. It's just so weird.

It's going to forever be Twitter. I don't know if I said YouTube. So on the majority of them, it's Courtney Luna. And you can find my book. It's online right now on Amazon, Target, Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and IndieBound.

And it's going to be just online unless it actually does well, then maybe a store will want to pick it up, which would be amazing because that's more eyeballs to find this way of eating.

So not to sound salesy, but I would just love if everyone could, you know, vote with their dollar and be a part of helping to get this message out. Grab one for a friend.

You don't need to be carnivore to use this cookbook. You just need to not be vegan. or maybe give it to a vegan. Maybe they could learn a little something, but it's just gonna help anyone that just wants to eat more protein.

So yeah, thank you so much. Yes, absolutely. Well, keep up the good work and we'll hopefully see you soon at a conference. Yes, thank you.

Carnivore Cure: How Courtney Luna Beat Sugar Addiction and Lost 55 Pounds

Jen Pfleghaar, DO, ABOIM

Courtney Luna

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