Discover Mira For Effective Fertility Health

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Yes. Thank you for having me. We all love to empower women to understand their hormones, track them, and trace their fertility goals. It’s a great partnership.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Thank you so much. Thank you. We have so much that we want to cover today. to let people know what the Mira is, why it’s such a powerful tool, and how it can work in both, as you say, regular and irregular cycles, as in the case of PCOS and other situations, some of which we’ve already highlighted. Before we begin, I would love to start from the end and ask you, What’s the one thing that you would love for every woman, man, or human listening to this conversation today to take away from this interview?

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

I would want them to know that a Mira can be that tool. That’s the missing piece in the puzzle. When you begin using it, it helps you see the underlying patterns and trends of your hormones, which are above and beyond other tracking. You can see where the imbalance might be happening. Is the issue with estrogen, LH, progesterone, or all of them? When we’re tracking multiple hormones at once, we can see the interaction between them. Again, those overall patterns and trends show us a lot.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Absolutely. I love it. I feel one of the things that’s so important about the Mira is that it puts so much power back into the hands of the woman or the person who’s tracking their cycle. We used to have to always rely on going into the doctor’s office or the lab or ordering a Dutch test. When the Mira came out, I thought, What a revelation! I just imagine that little by little they’re going to replace the Dutch test, and we’ll have the ability to do our Dutch test or something very similar to it at home and not just see a snapshot of what’s happening with hormones, but get a bigger and more longitudinal picture, which is so, so important. I love it. 

I think this innovation has been groundbreaking and life-changing for so many, including our families in the Primemester Protocol. Thank you so much. Would you start by telling us just a little bit about the Mira, how it works, and how it’s different from other fertility tracking options on the market? We’ve started to touch on this a little bit, but tell us in a little bit more detail, please, Rose.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Yes. Mira is the first at-home analyzer that does quantitative measurements of hormones, and it uses a technology called immunofluorescence, most of us don’t know what type of technology most things are on the market, but it’s in the same categories: hospital, laboratory, and reader. In that way, we’re able to provide you, again, with those quantitative results. It’s the raw data. You’re not relying on an app to tell you its interpretation of the results. There’s no generic manufacturer’s threshold range, and you do not have to manually read them yourself looking for a feeding line or a darkening line. 

Again, the real quantitative measurements of the hormone are given to you. That’s empowering to see, as you mentioned, the depth of a Dutch test of all the hormones in real-time. From day to day, watch as they’re happening, and with that type of technology, because it’s real-time, you’re able to, as a patient or as a provider, change things in mid-cycle. Maybe you’ve just found ovulation, and now you’re going to change what supplements you’re on or medications. and so it is putting, as you said, the power back in the hands of your data. Now you can decide what to do with it.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Absolutely. Also, if I understand correctly, Mira is partnering with providers and offices to help you get the data you want to get from them. They can also help you make informed decisions. I think number one is that we as women, as humans, as consumers, have the power in our hands, but then we also have the ability in real-time to share these pieces of information with people with whom we want to share, so that they can help us make educated and informed decisions about what to do mid-cycle, or when they’re seeing a pattern over time, and so can you talk a little bit more about the transmission of data to providers and how providers can use the data that they’re seeing? 

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Yes. Any provider that works with our team is given free access to the provider dashboard, which is real-time data, just like the patient’s free phone app. As soon as the patient sinks the data into the free phone app, it’s then available immediately to the provider, so providers can if they’re meeting with their patient this afternoon, open up the dashboard, see the patient’s data from today, the rest of the cycle, and previous cycles, and have a very informed decision or conversation with the patient about what’s been happening right now. What can we change? What has already happened? 

The patient also can generate a report, which is a wonderful tool in the app. As long as they’ve tracked one cycle, they can generate a PDF report, which can be securely sent through my chart or EMR to their provider. If they have a health coach, a provider, and someone else on their team, they can share that data either through the dashboard or through a generated report.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

I love that. That’s wonderful. Rose, can you tell us about the benefits of tracking more than just luteinizing hormone or LH?

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Yes. We know LH is important, and it is an easy hormone to track either in blood or urine. It tells us that your body’s trying to trigger something that will release the ripe egg. But there are different patterns of LH, and some are better than others. When you start tracking it in the quantitative measurements, you can see very easily when the LH is starting to rise, when it’s climaxing, and when it’s declining. That’s an important piece of the puzzle. Are you having chronically elevated LH? Is your LH pattern? Not ideal. 

That information tells us a lot. We sometimes find women, especially those with PCOS, who have these suppressed LH patterns. If you’re a patient who’s testing with LH test strips and you can never find a true positive or peak Mira, find that suppressed pattern. It shows you that small change. If you see your progesterone rise, then that LH did trigger the ovary to release the egg. Now, the pattern might not be ideal still, but at least you’re finding when ovulation was triggered.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Absolutely.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Our patients with PCOS have so many benefits. I think the Mira has become a favorite with people with PCOS, and there are so many reasons. We could talk about this all day, but in PCOS, generally, there’s not a good pattern of hormones. When you start testing, you can see what type of pattern it is and where the issue is occurring. You can see your progress over time. If you start testing, you might be tempted to be discouraged because the hormone pattern doesn’t look very good. But you’ll be motivated and encouraged as you continue testing and see your hormones start to shift. Because of all the hard work that you’ve been doing to improve or manage PCOS, PCOS is, as I said, one of our favorites. We have found that our PCOS patients self-report conception rates at about 55%, which I know most people think is not a very good percentage, but the general PCOS conception rate is about 20 to 25%. By using this higher technology and managing your PCOS well, you can double the conception rate and get to about 55%.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Absolutely. That’s wonderful. Then if you’re doing the tracking and you’re also doing the things that help to better regulate your cycle so that you see a more fertile pattern, we know that that’s also related to the quality of the eggs that are released extra, and the health of the pregnancy going forward. Then you should be seeing an even higher success rate. That’s exciting. I love that, Rose. What do you think are the most exciting and concerning of the fertility trends that we’re seeing in 2024?

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

I think I’m encouraged by how many people want to understand what their body is doing. They feel empowered to take this into their own hands. It’s their body, their fertility. By tracking it, that’s what can motivate you and maybe change some of your lifestyle. Maybe you do need to optimize your sleeping patterns or minimize your stress because you’re seeing effects on your hormones from that. We know that ovulation can be suppressed or delayed by stress. So we’re seeing a lot of people who are very interested in their health. That’s, of course, encouraging because anytime we are motivated to take care of ourselves, we’re going to have a better quality of life, and longevity, and reach our fertility goals.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

I completely agree with that. I have a mama who had her super baby with us in her 40s, and I always remember her saying that needing to work hard to get pregnant was such a blessing for her because it was the catalyst for her feeling she had no choice but to step up her health. At this point in her life, the average person in America, in the Western world, and around the globe is starting to see massive declines in their health in the fourth decade of life that just continue on and on. But if you have this moment, I want this thing more than anything in the world, and I’m going to do whatever it takes to get there, and then all of a sudden you’re feeling, I’m healthier than I was in my 20s or 30s. As opposed to being on the decline, with my average, people are at this point in life. It was interesting because that’s what we do every day in the semester protocol and at FPI. But I had never thought about it. 

We talk all the time about how intimately linked reproductive longevity and longevity are. We have all kinds of data showing that relationship. When we’re doing things to improve our fertility, we’re also doing things to improve our longevity. But it’s a slightly different way of looking at it, which is this beautiful opportunity to step up our health at a time in life when, as most people would say, the ship has sailed and health is just going to keep deteriorating from there. then you get to have such a different life experience because of that, and you’re your super babies. I think that that’s so beautiful that the way this mama said it is very much tied into what you just said about this positive trend of people wanting to understand what’s going on with their bodies in a way that we haven’t seen in the past. I agree; that’s beautiful. What do you think is the most concerning trend of 2024 when it comes to fertility or something that you wish would look different?

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

I think what I wish would look different would be the support.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Yes.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

The organization does a wonderful job, but some patients are not as lucky to have found you. so they feel they’re on this all by themselves. They don’t always feel like they’re getting their questions answered. Then they resort to Google, and they get overwhelmed. That’s unfortunate that it’s so hard for women to get what they need and the support that they deserve in a way that is excessive for them. That’s what I wish would be different.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

It evokes a lot of emotion in me. I have tears because, as someone who lost her mother at birth, I think the journey to finding a way to feel supported in life was not for the faint of heart. Because your mother is your first and most essential source of support throughout life, I have an intimate understanding of the way you can feel you’re lost and floundering when you feel alone and you don’t have the support you need or you don’t know where you need to go for support, which is, I’m sure, one of the reasons why we take the support we provide so seriously, thoughtfully, and sacredly because, I mean, we have a mountain of scientific data that shows that it might sound like it’s cute, sweet, or optional to have support, but the social support scientific literature is so profound that, I mean, isolation is as deadly as smoking. Not having support is deadly for the body, the mind, and the spirit. 

On the flip side, everything that we want to do, be, have, and achieve in life, including being a mom and having our super babies, becomes more possible for us when we have support, and the data show that very clearly, and that’s for all humans. But it’s even more likely that the effect is even more pronounced for women. I just want to say that I couldn’t agree more with just how much I wish that support were easier for people to find and access so that they wouldn’t feel so alone on a journey that feels very long and hard for many people as it is and is even longer and harder when you feel alone.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Yes.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Thank you so much for raising that. You’re me; I’ve asked this question in every interview, and thus far, you’re the first person to do so. Yes, to me, I have such a strong visceral reaction to that. Yes. That is so much of what we need. It doesn’t just stop when you finally achieve a positive pregnancy test; in some ways, there is a need for support. Yes, it’s even greater at that point. then when you give birth and everything that comes after that, I always say it takes the village to make our super babies and grow them, but it also takes a village to raise them. Yes, that’s beautiful. 

Thank you so much for that, Rose. Thank you. Tell us, who would benefit from tracking their reproductive hormones? Of course, anybody who wants to be pregnant shortly, anybody who’s struggling to get pregnant, which is the vast majority of people on the Primemester Protocol have been, have come to us after trying to get pregnant for months, years, up to two decades now. I told you before we began the interview that now 26% of the mamas who come to us come in advance of trying, which I love because that’s an empowering place to come from, to be proactive and plan. But tell us which groups benefit the most from tracking their hormones.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Well, of course, it can be anyone. If you have any interest in understanding your hormones, We have people simply tracking their hormones for health reasons and saying no. I have, maybe,  pretty severe PMS symptoms. Does it have anything to do with my hormones? Of course, it does. Yes. When they start tracking, they’re empowered to say, Yes, there is an imbalance here, and we can start working on it. Anyone who has any interest in trending their hormones with their symptoms or their situation for turning for health, even if you’re just starting your fertility journey or haven’t even started yet, simply finding out if you’re ovulating or not, can be so much relief. 

I can’t tell you how many patients say I’m just so relieved that I’m ovulating. More and more moans are following the pattern that they’re supposed to. then you don’t have that unknown. You can simply begin testing, see your data, and then move forward. But it’s also very helpful for those who are now starting to try to do intervention. Maybe they’re making lifestyle changes—diet, exercise, working with a fertility coach, a provider, or a program of yours. because if you stop tracking or just do a one-time, let’s say blood test, or, as you mentioned, Dutch things, you don’t see if you’re continuing down the path you want. Are you moving towards better balance, or did you go off? 

I’ve had patients who begin, let’s say, exercising every day. That’s a general recommendation. Then their cycles become irregular, and then we have to discuss what went wrong. Maybe they’re not keeping their calories high enough or their body fat high enough. If you’re continuing to track, you’re making sure that you’re staying on the path that you want to be on.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

I think that’s beautiful. I think it can also be very motivating because sometimes it’s hard to sustain motivation for the modifications that you’re making in service of your fertility and your super-baby goals. One beautiful thing is that your period and your cycle are vital signs that give you pretty immediate feedback about what you’re doing. It can be that maybe you lost motivation, and then you see that change reflected negatively in your cycle. Then it helps you to stay motivated to come back to what you were doing that helped you to achieve positive changes in your cycle, you, the dance of your hormones, and what your period looks like. I think that’s very powerful in the way that it can give you this pretty immediate feedback about what’s going on.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Yes. We all know that at some point we’re going to become discouraged, or, as we say, fall off the bandwagon.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Yes.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

But as you said, it is truly that monthly report card or feedback back to you about how your body is doing. Are you listening to it? Of course, you can always say, Well, we’re taking a break, and that’s okay. You can take time away. You can stop testing for a while, but you can always return, and don’t give yourself a hard time that you took a break from anything. You can immediately begin testing at any point. It’s not. I think some people think it has to be very linear, and I’m going to do this, then this, this, and it does not have to be that. Our bodies are not robots. We’re real human beings with real-life situations that come up, and right now might not be the best time for you to continue trying to conceive. that’s okay. That’s part of the support that we are talking about; no one should be making you follow this very linear pathway. They should all be personalized and individualized for you.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Yes. To feel right for where you are in the moment. What do you think is the most disruptive thing about the Mira? I mean disruptive in the best way possible. I know it’s the first tool that it gives you that allows you to have quantitative measurements at home. That in and of itself is incredibly disruptive and in a wonderful way. Is there anything else that you want to highlight?

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Talking about the benefits or some of the challenges, which one would you choose?

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Yes, I would. I would be more about benefits, but I would not. But we’d love to hear both. Yes, absolutely.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Of course, we have to be realistic and talk about our testing. Your testing. Your hormones can be disruptive in the negative sense that you do have to collect first-morning urine samples. We want to be very upfront about how this is done. But I think most people would prefer collecting their first-morning urine versus going to the lab every day, every other day, or even once a month. That’s what’s disruptive to people. It does take that commitment on your part if you are going to collect that first-morning urine, insert it in the analyzer, and then wait for the results. and it’s just a benefit that you can see real-time data. There’s also the disadvantage of thinking that one data point is the end of the world. My progesterone just dropped. Why did it drop? What’s happening? 

We always want to encourage you to understand—I loved how you worded it—that your hormones play a dance. They’re dancing. Yes. Your hormones do fluctuate a lot. Just as they fluctuate in the blood, you’re going to see them fluctuate in the urine as well. Remember, we’re always looking for overall patterns and trends rather than a single data point isolated on its own. Rest assured that we will continue testing. Continue looking at that overall pattern and trend. If you do see a data point that you’re concerned about, that’s okay. Log in. But don’t hyper-focus on that one data point because your hormones are expected to fluctuate. When you are working with a program such as yours or a provider directly, they’ll be able to look and see. Are your hormones balanced or following the correct pattern and trend?

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

I just have to say from our experience working with thousands of mamas that we have seen people conceive successfully in all kinds of cycles, including cycles when things don’t look perfect. and the mama was worried about the numbers she got, etc. I think it’s very important what you just shared, Rose, that it is. It’s not just in the collection of our biomarkers, our fertility data, and our cycle data. It’s a blessing and a curse, or double-edged sword, of the modern world that we live in, which is that we have more access to information than ever before—more access to information in an hour than people had probably in their lifetimes. In many cases. That’s a wonderful thing because we get to be so much more informed. We get to have so much more choice. 

We have to be careful and scrutinize the sources of information you were talking about before going down the rabbit hole of Google. Well, that’s enough to make people crazy. But then you add in the variables, and anybody can be putting information out there. And just because something is a top hat doesn’t mean it’s always a credible hit right on Google. It’s wonderful that we have access to information and, with it, choice and decision-making. Sometimes the amount of data and information can be overwhelming and can fuel anxious and obsessive tendencies, which are very much a part of the fertility experience when people are having difficulty getting and/or staying pregnant, or it’s just a common thing for every person to get hung up on every detail because they’re trying to solve the equation, they’re trying to solve the puzzle. Thank you so much for that. I think that’s important to say. Thank you. What about disruptiveness on the positive side, the benefit? 

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Yes. I think the disruption on the positive side is that you may be shocked when you see what your data looks like. Maybe you’re having a regular cycle and a normal amount of bleeding. Then, lo and behold, you start testing, and you find that you have low progesterone or that you have an issue. Sometimes that can be a little bit alarming, but you don’t have to view it as a negative. You can see that this is now something that I get to work on. I think we feel powerless when we don’t know what to do next. Is this clinically significant or not? Well, you can take that information, start making different choices, and watch your data improve. It can be very empowering. 

I can’t tell you how many patients there are. I start helping, and I see their chart, and I tell them, I can’t diagnose you with anything, but I am concerned that you have metabolic dysfunction such as PCOS. Then they go see their provider, get a workup, and come back, and they’re, I do have PCOS. That’s, now you, now what are we going to do about it? What steps are we going to take now to improve your hormone balance so that you can just be healthier if that’s your goal? or if you’re trying to achieve or try to avoid whatever your fertility goal is. I’d like to help you with that. I think, to summarize that, it’s back to your empowerment now; know what your hormones are doing. Then you can decide what you want to do with that information.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Yes. Taking the power back into our own hands, which I feel is the trend in fertility and everywhere in life that we, want to be heading in, knowing that our fertility is innate to us and that, we have the power to access it and make the most out of what we were given, especially when we are more informed and we have data about what’s happening with us. That’s so beautiful. If you could tell people just one thing about taking care of their fertility and their future children’s health, what would that one thing be, Rose?

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

That’s a hard one. It’s a.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Big one. It’s a big question.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

I think what I always go back to is that you deserve to have the resources that you need. Of course, that’s not the only thing. A resource on nutrition and then a resource on the best exercise can bloom into a lot of things. But, ultimately, you should always be advocating for yourself to have those resources. Whether you seek them out yourself or get them from a program of yours or a provider, you should always not settle for who you are. just telling it outright, advocating for yourself, and getting the resources you deserve. It’s just as important as the support you need to get the right resources. That’s what I and I think Mira, is that, as you mentioned, can be that catalyst for you. When you start testing, you start seeing what’s happening. You can take that and springboard yourself into better health and, of course, reach the fertility goal that you’re seeking.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

I love that so much. One last question before we wrap up for today, Rose: what is the feeling of Super Fertility to you when you hear the term Super Fertility? What does it evoke for you?

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

I think it feels like healthy power. Thank you. Yes, I think the superheroes and those strong women who we know want what’s best for themselves, for their children, for their communities, and for the world. When we stand up for what’s right and important, we can change the world, one person at a time. Yes, stand up for yourself and get what you need. If that is trying to conceive, then live in a way that you can and be proud of your super baby. I did because I took care of myself and did all these things.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Yes. I love that so much. Healthy power. That, to me, is so beautiful because of its power. Power is such a critical part of our life force and our creation. I think sometimes the word gets a bad rap or is used for negative things. Being our most fertile selves and living our most fertile lives is always going to ultimately be about stepping into our full, fertile power and self-authority, whether that’s in our bodies, in our minds, or in what we’re creating and producing to put out into the world our contribution to how we give back to the community. You are saying. I love that so much, Rose. Stand up and get what you need so that you can live in a way that you’re proud of and live with pride as you look at your super baby. Thank you so much, Rose, for being here with us today at the Super Fertility Summit. Thank you to our incredible sponsor, Mira, once again.

Rosemary MacKenzie, BSN, RN, CEN, MMCP, NFP

Yes, thank you for having me.

Cleopatra Kamperveen, PhD

Thank you. Rose.