How to Engineer a Healing Mindset

Inherited Trauma and Stress Response 0:00

There's this concept of inherited traumas or inherited family traumas. What happens is that there's a physiologic state that gets inherited. The great are the grandchildren and the great grandchildren of Holocaust survivors. Two generations down, their cortisol will spike with loud banging noises. We see this in mice studies and dog studies too, that they actually shocked mice, the grand litter of mice, right? We see that two generations down, they have a little bit of response to shock to a sound and that cortisol response.

They actually measure cortisol in the mice tail. The cortisol response, the stress response is actually there. This is Dr. Talks. I am super excited to have a dear, dear friend of mine on next and somebody that all of you are going to love. He is not only a dear friend, he's my doctor, even though we don't live in the same city. He's my go-to person. And I go to him because he has such a wide breadth of knowledge and he's always learning. He's not one of those people that It was like, oh, I know everything.

He wants to know everything, and that's why he keeps learning and learning and learning and growing. And every time I talk to him, I always learn something new. And you're going to learn so much from him. His name is Dr. Ching Ron. He's a founder of the Texas Center for Lifestyle Medicine. And he really is an innovator in functional medicine. in really helping people take control of their health. And so he is so far ahead of the traditional medicine, you know, traditional medical world that he plays in.

Introducing Dr. Cheng Ruan 1:35

And that's why so many patients come like me from all over the world to this guy. So you got to treat, you get to hear from him. And what we're going to be talking about is how to engineer a healing mindset. So Cheng, I'm so excited to have you on. And thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you so much for having me on Tom. And this is such a blessing to be able to talk about this with you. So thank you. Yeah. So you are a medical doctor, you, uh, you know, integrative medicine, your, uh, internal medicine doctors.

So, you know, all the standards of care, Western medicine, and you still use many of those, which is really awesome, but you go beyond that, right? You, and that's why you can solve the harder cases where traditional medicine falls short. You're so inquisitive and you have so much knowledge. And today we're going to talk about how the power of mindset, which you and I were just talking about earlier, is such a critical factor in people's healing. So give us just kind of an overview of how mindset plays such a huge role in whether a person heals or not.

Okay. So let's start out a little bit nerdy and go a little bit into energetics. Okay. So, um, so, you know, I started out doing more traditional medicine, um, earlier on in the career starting in 2012 and just didn't really feel right. Right. There's something kind of missing. And part of it is that in medicine, the way we practice medicine and the way that people were categorized as looking at disease states rather than the actual human that's behind the disease. Right. So every time I will talk about disease states, it's almost like I'm doing a disservice for people if I just kind of do the things I was traditionally trained in.

So my mom was a bunch of herbalists. So from the Chinese medicine realm, every person has different energy signature. And you can't treat the person the same, otherwise they're not going to get into that healing phase, right? So there's a difference between like the prescription of medicine and the Western medicine and the natural healing. Healing is a journey, it's a perpetual journey. Whereas medication is for a short-term specific outcome. A lot of times, if the outcome's not reached, or the medicine doesn't help reach the outcome, there's sort of this abandonment of the patients that we kind of see.

And that's what we're seeing right now, especially throughout the pandemic, right?

Why Mindset Drives Healing 4:06

And so, you know, the... When I started doing integrative medicine in 2017 at Texas Center for Lifestyle Medicine, so we're five years old now, and I looked at the data, we looked at the data all together, me and my entire crew. And we're like, well, who actually heals and who doesn't? Is it someone who's on a specific diet? Are they more plant-based? Are they more animal-based? What are they doing? Are there people who are taking specific supplements? Are there people who are taking specific medicines?

Are there people who have resources, meaning that they have like financial resources to get the best doctors in the world? None of that matter for the people who had the best outcomes. Okay. What mattered is that something triggers them to change. A marriage, a divorce, a death of a family member, a birth of a family member, right? Something changed within the identity of this person that trickled into the physiologic manifestation of what a person has. So if someone has, for example, some autoimmune disease, you see their autoimmune markers start going down or start going away.

right after some sort of a life event. And someone has diabetes, you see those markers improving. Someone has vascular disease, you see those markers improving. And it's not a specific diet, it's not a specific supplement, but they all have one thing in common. They realize that the mindset that they've been utilizing, right, in their life is no longer serving them. It's something in their life that's forced upon them as situation, whether it's good or bad, we're not going to call it good or bad.

require them to change their belief systems and their energetics. And then all of a sudden you see like the best outcomes and people, right? And so for me, you know, I'm like, wow, okay, I just have to give myself a timeout when I started realizing this. And then we're like, well, how do we engineer health into people? How do we get people to create this successful mindset? Which is what we're talking about today. And so we started onboarding practitioners and health coaches that are more trained in mind body medicine and boom, things exploded for me from then on.

So mine's absolutely important. And this is not something they taught you in medical school. No, but I wish they had, but I don't think they knew, right? The way that we look at studies and data, a lot of it is double-blind randomized controlled trials and pharmaceutical data. We're not really looking at something that's like this. However, having said that, there's something called the placebo effect, which is that if you're studying a drug or some sort of even a device, The placebo effect is that the brain can actually engineer a successful path for the body, but no one's looking at how the placebo effect is doing it and deconstruct it.

So we actually deconstruct what the placebo effect is actually doing in our facility. I love it. So we're going to talk more about that, but this is so interesting because you have people with the same condition. Yeah. One will heal, one won't, even though they have the same medication, same condition. The real difference is what you're just talking about. It's probably something within that person's mind. Or you have somebody that may have a cancer and then they get the cancer taken out and they go into remission, but then it comes back because their mindset didn't change probably.

They still had that mindset that was creating that disease. I love what you're doing. I mean, this is why I love this guy so much. I, I hope that all of you will reach out at some point in time to find out more about what amazing Dr. Ron does because, you know, he's got all sorts of great stuff. Let's talk about that. So you just said, you just said something pretty interesting.

A Patient Case: Grief and Decline 8:12

You, you found ways to deconstruct. How successful mindsets can be implemented. So take us through that process of, you know, what you guys do. And, and I know a lot of people, listen, if you're not, if you think that just something from the outside is going to heal your chronic condition, it may help, but you're the ultimate decider in your mindset. So please listen to what Dr. Ron has to say here. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that we look at is not just, it's really hard to gauge someone's mindset and call it zero to 10, right?

Yeah. There's no such thing as a good or bad mindset. It's just a mindset, right? And so what we have to identify is this mindset serving this person yes or no. I mean, here's a really good example of someone today, actually. Let's talk about that. So this person is very educated. She's a professor, okay? And as a professor, she researches everything and she happens to be diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, early onset Alzheimer's disease, right? And then she come in and she has this giant stack of different things about gut health, brain health and the immune health and how to balance it.

And I mean, she carries with her so much knowledge, so much knowledge, but she came with a friend and her friends like, you know what, she's been deteriorating really over the last year. Okay. I'm like, okay, well, let's see what you've been doing. So it seems like she's been on the best diets. She's been on the best supplements money can buy, or she's seen the best doctors, or the best diagnostics, right? So everything's done there. And so while she has this giant stack of information, but you know, guess what's in the back of my mind?

Like, what is her physiology? What is her state right now that she's in? And her body language is this. It's a lot of hype. And when she's talking, she's barely breathing. She won't get as much out as possible in this situation. Her shoulders are close to her ears. What does that tell me about her energy? Her energy was one of fight or flight. Exactly. So she was in uncertainty, fight or flight. And we actually started talking about why that is. And what we identified is that one thing changed about her life that perpetuated her journey into this memory loss.

And her husband passed away a year ago, and that's where everything started declining, right? I'm like, no matter what you put in your paper here about gut health, immune health, let's talk about your husband passing away, right? And then we can see just through talking that there's sort of this aha moment that she was using all this information that's external to suppress her internal struggle and not wanting to talk about the death of her husband. For me, I'm like, we have to talk about that in order as a foundation to heal and everything else is optional after that.

And so if we construct the way that we talk to patients across all of medicine in this manner, we want to be able to honor what they're going through their life situations. This is the actual winning mindset. I love it. I love it. And how many doctors would have even gone to the place where, you know, they, they found out about that husband dying a year ago and really take the time to talk about it. This is why you're so unique and hopefully some practitioners are watching you now too. And I know with medicine, uh, you know, there's a disincentive to actually do this, right?

Sympathetic vs Parasympathetic Healing 11:46

Because time and get things done quick, but that's what I love about you and the way you operate with your clinic, you actually. You really work on what's going to heal the person and take them into places that they might not want to go, but they need to go in order to really heal. Right. And I'm not an expert in mental health or anything like that, but I like to get the conversation going. Now, we have for other professionals here, right? So they all have their, their roles, but however, then this may come really as a shock to you, Tom, the people who come to us, we're not the ones delivering the health or the information that they eventually take into success.

It's actually other patients. So we actually have individuals and group sessions. The people who are in the group sessions do significantly better in terms of anxiety, sleep, depression, mindfulness, right? And, and also disease states. They actually have biomarkers of aging that get better within the group systems. And one thing about the group ecosystem is that we're harnessing the power of each individual people here as a collective for that collective energetic healing. experience. And what's even more surprising this since the pandemic we've been only doing this on zoom online, but the energy is still so congruent wants the healing process so I believe that's a heal requires the community.

And the community is one that's of safety and of certainty. And that's what we really provide for patients. And that takes their health a really long way. So it's, you know, I'm not the hero, right? It's the people, the people who come to us within the group settings, they become their own heroes. And that's what's beautiful to watch in the transformation process. I liked earlier in the beginning to you the way you talked about medicine. Medicine is meant to be used for a short period of time. And if you can have the healing mindset and really not be in that fight or flight, which is not a healing state, which by the way is a state that most people that have health challenges are in, they're afraid, right?

They've gone to the internet. They looked at all the things that can happen and they're really in fight or flight. They're in their sympathetic nervous system, which prevents the body from healing itself. Talk about how when we get into that parasympathetic, we get out of fight or flight, how can the body heal these diseases like we're talking about? How is our body built? so that it actually can heal that people aren't getting the advantage of because they're so afraid all the time about this disease they've been labeled with.

Let's break it down. So you sense something called the sympathetic system. The sympathetic system in neurology is something we call the go pathway in the brain, like literally go, like go, go, go, right? And then there's the parasympathetic, which is the freeze or the no-go pathway. So we want to be able to balance a go and no-go pathway or the sympathetic fight or flight and the parasympathetic rest and digest. There's some people that are stuck in the parasympathetic that's just as bad as being stuck.

So we really need that balance, that yin yang balance, right? So yang being sympathetic, yin being parasympathetic actually, right? And so what happens is, let's say if someone's always triggered, let's say it's a psychosocial emotional trauma that occurred. And let's say they don't even remember the events. Maybe it's in the childhood, right? But they grew up and they chose a profession. from their physiologic state, and that profession may be a nurse or a doctor, someone in the healthcare field, and that person may feel their sense of self-worth by providing aid to others.

But over the years, they've learned to self-neglect, right? So what happens is that physically looking at the person, okay, the shoulders may be really up here, all the fascia, which is the outer covering muscle, can be so tight up here. And sometimes when they turn their heads to face me, they're not saying, hey, Dr. Ron. They're saying, hey, Dr. Ron, right? The entire corso has to move because they're so locked up right here. This is the body keeping the score. There's a book on that. It's called The Body Keeps the Score.

This is the body keeping the score of the trauma that's held up right here. Now, why would the body do that? Well, it's very simple. So we do something called brain mapping. When we look at people's brain physiology, so we can actually see trigger brains. When the brain is triggered, well, the brain conducts the heart rate. The heart rate's always up. And then when that happens, the sympathetic response then shunts all the hormones into fight or flight hormone called cortisol, adrenaline or adrenaline.

Okay. And these hormones take away blood flow from our gut, take away blood flow from parts of the brain that create memory. And they shunt it towards the fight or flight parts of the brain and shunt it towards guess what? Here. So you have huge blood engorgement of these pectorals and these deltoids ready to fight and these neck muscles ready to take that impact like you're a football player. or that you're a warrior, right? But you're not about to go into battle. Your brain thinks you're going into battle.

So your blood literally gets sequestered in this area and so does your energy. And that creates pain and stiffness over time. And so this is why we do deep relaxation exercises. We're going from sympathetic to parasympathetic. Relaxation, mindfulness, meditation, right? And the blood flow will literally like just start draining down. That's why when people get angry, they get red.

Practical Tools for a Healing Mindset 17:20

It's the blood flow coming up here, right? And they take deep breaths and the blood flow goes away to like the relaxation parts of the body and the digestive part of the body. And you're not red anymore. They just look normal after that. So there has to be a balance between the two. Otherwise, physiologically, the body is incapable of regeneration or deep sleep as well. And so when we can go on purpose into a parasympathetic state, again, you don't want to be in parasympathetic your whole life, then you're basically, you know, a vegetable or not functioning that much.

But when we can do it on purpose, we can then start generating our natural healing response, correct? Right. And here's what we know. For example, we know that techniques in mind-body medicine like deep breathing exercises and meditation and exercises dramatically changes our gut bacteria, gut microbiome, right? We know that it dramatically changes blood flow to different parts of the brain, different parts of the body. You can actually see that on imaging, right, with deep breathing exercises, right?

We know that just five minutes of meditation a day can really change our parasympathetic balance. There's actually machines and devices that we actually have here to measure your parasympathetic balance. These are all rooted in science, but a big portion of it is rooted in that placebo effect is that our brains can actually generate this type of physiological response and that's why the placebo effect actually exists. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. So what are some tools that you would suggest to people to help generate this mindset of healing?

Like what are some things they can do right now to, to just, uh, you know, start to get their body to, to help heal. And we're not talking about things that, you know, two minutes later you're cured, but things that can start that process along the road? What are some things that you could give people to help them out? The two valuable tools, okay? And they seem so simple, but so powerful, right? The very first tool, also sort of an uncomfortable tool for people to do, is to just take a second, just step back and think, in my life, Is it, is my current life going to the trajectory that I want it to go?

Okay. Yeah. And if not, okay, then most people who are watching this, it's probably not because they're watching this, right? If that's not the trajectory that you like it to go, Figure out if it's due to excess or lack. Okay. So excess means that in my doing too little, I must do more. Okay. So, so that's so excessive. Or should I go into lack mode where like I'm doing too much, but I need just kind of take, take a step back. So I call it the power of the pause. Most people feel like they're not doing enough.

In reality, they're doing so much that they're forgetting to pause, right? So P, parasympathetic pausing is literally just take a step back and pause and think. Easiest way to do this is when you have a conversation with every person you meet for the next 24 hours, okay? When you're done speaking, when they're done speaking, count to four in your brain. One, one thousand, two, one thousand, three, one thousand, four, one thousand. Just look them in the eye, right? That's pausing. And that pause will actually create an energetic bond between you and the other person.

It doesn't matter if it's a stranger or someone that you know. And what happens is that pause will actually fill the void with things that should come out in the first place. And that's what energy is, right? It's the power of the pause, that four second pause that's right there. It's uncomfortable, but we have people practice it. Yeah. And the second thing that I recommend people to do is take away the word need and replace the word want. And so the word, for example, would say, Hey, I need some coffee to stay awake.

Well, do you really need coffee to stay awake or do you want it? So the minute you replace the word want, it's actually totally in your control. And you say it, you actually deserve it, right? People use the word need as something that's outside of their control by replacing what the word wants.

Mindset, Genetics, and Inherited Trauma 21:38

You change up a lot of your vernacular, your conversations with people and using that word, plus that four second pause over the next 24 hours. Yes, it's going to be uncomfortable, but you start understanding your entire physiologic state can be changed when you converse with people in those manners. So those are my two most really powerful techniques to start. Yeah. And most people are on autopilot. They've got no clue if, you know, thinking about, you know, do I, am I doing too much? Am I, you know, not doing enough?

And then the one with need to want, I like a lot because it just, it feels better. Like if you go, I need to go pick up my kids, then it's like, victim. Well, I want to go pick up my kids, right? You know, then it's. Yeah. And plus your kids probably wants you saying it that way too. Not like I need to go pick them up. I want to go pick up my kids. Right. So it just creates a, I mean, even just me saying that, you know, my kids are 29 and 26, it creates a different feeling inside me. That does change my mindset.

That's created. And it creates a different feeling inside them too. Yeah. So, hey guys, I want to pick you up at 315. That's a totally different conversation. Hey, I need to pick you up at 315. Yeah. And the energy actually becomes so vibrant after that. So, you end the day with a lot of thankfulness if you use those two peaks. So, you've talked about the mind being able to change Basically, like you even said, uh, uh, markers of aging, uh, can, can the mind also, uh, interact with DNA, turning it on, turning it off, things like that.

Are you, you know, what, what, cause some people go, I was just built this way. You know, this is just the way I am. Uh, they don't really see things being able to change. What is the new science telling us now? Yeah. So the, the answer is yes. Um, uh, let's not call it change in DNA. It can activate certain portions of, uh, of our genetics, right? Yeah. And so, um, the, in this concept we actually just recently talked about. So on Thursdays with my patients, we actually do group discussions around this.

And our last one is genetics. Are you screwed? That's like the title. That's really fun. And one thing that we talked about is exactly what you just asked me here. Can I change some things within my genetics? And I would say that you can actually change things not just in your genetics, but in multiple generations down. So there's concept of inherited traumas or inherited family trauma. And what happens is that there's a physiologic state that gets inherited. So we know this based on studies that's done on the great or the grandchildren and the great grandchildren of Holocaust survivors.

That two generations down, their cortisol will spike with loud banging noises. Okay. Two generations down. Yes. Not people that were ever in the Holocaust. All right. Yeah. We see this in mice studies and dog studies too, that they actually shocked mice, the grand litter of mice, right? We see that two generations down, the Pavlovian response to shock to a sound and two generations down, they're responding to that sound and that cortisol response. They actually measure cortisol in the mice tail.

The cortisol response, stress response is actually inherited. Now the question is why? Well, it turns out we have these things called cDNAs that actually get transmitted down. So as they get transmitted down, it's actually creating cellular signaling within our genotypes. And now we have the technology to like track these things down in different generations, right? And actually, this is how we track ancestry, to be honest, like with like 23Me and stuff like that. And so there's new data looking at the phenotypic expression.

Phenotype means that, okay, you have these cDNA that's tracked out to this generation. Are you expressing it? Yes or no. And so as it turns out, there's a lot of things that we can do for balancing in life that we can actually alter the transmission of specific cDNA sequences through mind-body medicine, breath work, meditation, et cetera, et cetera. And so it doesn't have to, a lot of these traumas that gets inherited, it doesn't have to go to future generations, right? And so there's a lot of very fascinating data behind this.

And what's great is we see this in real life results with people. That's why I love talking to families and to our groups and stuff like that, because it affects massive generational changes within their families. Important for all of us that have kids or having kids to clear up ourselves, right? So that we're not passing it down. Like we can impact future generations by having this healing mindset and being healthier. Talk about trauma, because you brought that up several times. What role does trauma play in illnesses?

And is it, is it a contributing cause to many illnesses or is it, you know, how does it work with illness, trauma?

Trauma, Disease, and Hospice Insights 26:48

Sure. So kind of define trauma, right? You have physical trauma and you have eventful traumas, right? And so eventful traumas, you break down into two other subtypes. You have big T trauma, which is something really bad that happened, right? And you have little T trauma that's not necessarily considered bad, but maybe more frequent, right? Maybe you were born under a certain type of parenting style, right? And so if you were born into a very strict household that's very structured throughout your early childhood, your sense of individuality may actually be naturally downplayed just to get through that strict household, right?

And so that exhibits very differently than someone who maybe lost a parent or both parents when they're young. They have to grow up much faster and take care of all the siblings, right? So those are not necessarily like big T major traumas, those are small T. And most people have sort of these small T or little T traumas that are there. And so, if we experience these things, so our physiologic state, our energy is based on what those molded us in. So, you know, and there's no such thing as good or bad, there just is, right?

So, we all have little teas, little traumas that we kind of grew up with, and that makes us the person we are. The first thing to understand is that trauma is not a bad thing. because it made us into the people we are today and we're survivors, so it served us well. But at some point, it's no longer going to serve us well, right? And this could be the professor just talked about earlier in the interview, that's looking at all these different things, but really stemming from her husband passing away, right?

So her caretaker caregiver was actually passed away and that relationship was in jeopardy. So that triggered earlier memories for her, for her and her father, right? of her father early passing away as well. So that triggered an entire engagement process of physiologic change. And there's different things that, and different neurotransmitters within the brain that's just like kind of lighting up. Gosh, you see that on brain mapping, you know? But these traumatic responses, once again, not good or bad, they just are.

And we have to figure out, are these things serving us, right? Maybe they served us at one point. Maybe my fight or flight physiology served me by you know, not being, you know, killed in a war, right? Because I survived and I have three generations to thank for that, right? But now is it still serving me? Is my trajectory in life predicated on those traumas? If it is, how do I terminate that and engineer a very different mindset, right? And so, and so traumas are at the roots of a lot of different underlying disease states.

We see like hypertension, like pre-diabetes, diabetes, fatty liver disease is a huge one, right? And we see this in Alzheimer's disease, right? And we see this in all sorts of different disease states that trauma does have a big part of. Now, the reason I discover this, you're not even going to expect. I used to do hospice medicine. One of the greatest things about hospice medicine, by the way, is I get to talk to people who know they're going to die. When one knows their expiration date or supposed expiration date, they let go of everything.

Their physiologic state is different. They're at peace. They have no filter, right? And so these are the people who are in hospice who live longer than the people who are getting aggressive treatment for whatever their disease state is. And so I'm like, well, what is going on here? But why do we have to wait till we get a terminal illness or diagnosis? Right. And we don't have to, and then that's just basics of it. That's amazing though, that people who just let go live longer than people that are getting aggressive treatment for the same type thing because they've gotten rid of all that stress and worry and then the body can just relax and they probably are enjoying their life a heck of a lot more than the people getting the aggressive treatment that are feeling crappy, you know, at times.

Yeah, and palliative care doctors witnessed this, right? I was one of them. And in fact, if you actually do a cross-sectional survey, palliative care doctors are the least burnt out, happiest doctors in every medical field, out of all four fields. How interesting, right? Yeah. Well, you brought to a lot of people from a very scientific-minded, research-based person like you are.

How to Connect with Dr. Ruan 31:28

I mean, this guy is like, I mean, he is devouring research and learning and growing, but also came from a family where, as he mentioned, his mom was an acupuncturist and herbalist, right? So he had that mind-body connection also, and he's molding the best of both worlds. I absolutely love what he does. He's my doctor. How can people connect with you and either come to your clinic or take some of the online courses that you have? Give people the best way to get in touch with you and your clinic. Sure, there's three ways.

So, well, the first actually people, I just finished my brain health summit or interview over 60 different experts and brain health, we have to talk about the human mindset quite a bit. So that's better brain dot info. That's my website better brain dot info. So, here at Texas Center for lifestyle medicine. You can be more than welcome to be a member of our clinic. So that is TX like Texas TX life med.org, but more, but I'm really easily found on social media because I'm very loud on social media.

So look for my name on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, whichever platform you use. So my name's Chang runs C H E N G R U A N. MD and you can find me in all platforms. Thank you so much. We can see it right on your chest there too. So we got this for us also. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And for your, uh, for the set, the Texas center for lifestyle medicine, you also, people don't have to be in Texas, right? They can work with you telemedicine. Is that right? Um, well, yes and no. Um, so what happens is that, uh, we are at the mercy of the Texas medical board and here.

And so people do want to come from outside of Texas. You physically have to show up. Um, but we do tell telemedicine as well. Once you show up. Okay. And then you can work with them wherever they are. Yeah. By the way, we do take most insurances, including Medicare. In fact, I design insurance-based programs for the nation. That's what I do in health. And so you're wanting to utilize, we're not a concierge service, we're strictly an insurance-based service. So I feel for you to utilize that as well.

That's really unique in the type of medicine that he practices. Most people are concierge and you're out of pocket, a lot of money. So I can't recommend my friend highly enough. And he's just such an amazing human being. You can see he's got a huge heart and he's out to help the world. He's really making a huge dent in so many people's lives. Thanks for being on with us. It's always an honor to talk to you, my friend, and keep doing the amazing work you're doing. Thomas, such an honor to talk to you and all the value that you bring as well.

And I am so excited to be part of this whole thing that I just, I'm just oozing excitement. You can see me in my chair, I'm gonna squirm in. And the fact that I get to have reach your audience and talk about these things in practicality, I think that's what we really need in the world. Simple and practical. Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health. Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being.

For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website, www.doctortalks.com. Stay connected, stay healthy, and join us next time on Doctor Talks, real talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.