Finding Your Orgasmic Power

Naomi Harris

Thank you so much, Betsy. It’s so fun to be here.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

How did you get into this line of work? Does this always fascinate me? Because I know like a lot of us are sitting around like when we’re four and five and be like, I want to be somebody that talks about sex when I grow up.

Naomi Harris

I know it is and also, now that I do this line of work, I’m grown up and all I seem to be doing is talking about sex. So it is one of those funny things. So I got into this line of work in the way that a lot of people get into their line of work is that I had my own healing that needed to happen, and because of what I gained from the healing, I was inspired to share it. So I started as a naturopath first, and during my time as a naturopath, I also then went on a big sexual healing journey. I didn’t orgasm, I had pain during sex. I was very shut down, I was very closed off. 

And when I was finally brave enough to dip my toes into the idea that there was something else available and that I could heal this part of my life and see what was possible there I went, Oh, because everything changed. I think when the thing that we don’t realize, when we think about orgasm about pleasure, and about sex is that it really does influence so many different parts of our lives that we’re not aware of. And so then, you know, when I was able to orgasm, and when sex didn’t hurt anymore. It was like, okay, now I really need to talk about this and I need to share this with the whole world. Everybody needs to know what’s possible.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Yeah. And that is so incredibly important because I find, especially in the Western American training, like as an OBGYN, we got no training in pain, in pelvic pain, in sexual pain that this was something that I had to teach myself over years and stumbled through it for years and years and years before I actually became really good at it. But, you know, if I’m as a doctor finding a hard time getting the training in it, forget about an individual who’s going through it trying to find help. So, yeah, where do you start with people about this?

Naomi Harris

It’s actually, that’s really true. It’s really difficult. I mean, the statistics, it sort of depends on what you find and where you read. But they’re saying that between six and nine doctor and specialist visits for a female with some kind of pelvic condition before she even gets a diagnosis, let alone any support with her condition, which means that it’s a full-time job of advocating for ourselves and saying, “No, no, no, there is something wrong. Listen to me. I’m not making this all up”. Because, again, unfortunately, a lot of conditions of pain or a lot of women’s conditions are just dismissed as it’s all in your head or the tests have come back and we can’t see anything wrong. So there’s therefore nothing wrong. It’s like but this is ongoing pain that I’m living with and there is something here. So yeah, it is. It is one of those things that’s really difficult. There are lots of like groups on the Internet groups on Facebook where people are supporting each other and saying, hey, you’re not going crazy and you’re not alone and talking about, you know, things that have worked for them and things that haven’t worked. And I think that is also helping just to give people hope. I think we just need to sometimes have hope that something else is possible.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

And I wanted to bring it back to like orgasm. What have you been what have you found in your course of practice that is important that we need to know about orgasm?

Naomi Harris

Yes. Okay. Oh, we could talk about this. So. Okay, so I think the most important thing, the place to start with orgasm is it’s a reminder for and I’m going to speak mostly to women because I work with women. So I can’t really necessarily speak so much to two male bodies. But this is awesome. But it’s a reminder to women that orgasm actually comes from inside of us. So we’re often taught that like, he gave me an orgasm, she made me cum. They did this thing and that made me cum. Or like there’s this belief that we have that orgasm actually needs to start from outside of us, but actually, it comes from inside of us. It’s our own thing. It’s ours to own and claim, which has its own responsibilities then, and it has its own things to think about. Because if it’s true that orgasm comes from inside of us, and if you’re not having the kind of orgasms that you’ve been dreaming about having or you’re not having any at all, then that also needs to start from inside of you as well. So there needs to be a change in the way that we look at pleasure and the way that we look at orgasm. And then there needs to be a change in the way that we interact with our own bodies, that we treat our own bodies, and that we, yeah, that we treat our own bodies in order to bring that pleasure to the surface because it is just waiting there. We’re built for pleasure. Our bodies are made for this. Sometimes it just takes a little bit to find that initial trigger to start the fire, so to speak.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

And I think sometimes it’s hard and frustrating. I’ve got patients that have come in and they’re like, I don’t think I’ve ever had an orgasm. And in my mind, when I’m, you know, of course, I’m being very sensitive with that because that subject is very uncomfortable. And, you know, there’s sometimes a sense of failure or if you’re a woman and you’re like, I don’t think because no one ever says, I’ve never had an orgasm, they’re like, I don’t think I’ve ever had it. And I’m like, If you have to say the word, I don’t think an orgasm in the same sentence, it probably hasn’t happened.

Naomi Harris

Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. And it’s so common, you know, I work with clients in their sixties and seventies and, you know, it’s such a vulnerable thing to say, hey, I’m 67 years old and I’ve never felt anything in my body. I feel shut down. I feel numb. I always have. I’ve been married for 50 years and I’ve never felt anything. It’s a vulnerable thing to do. Take a deep breath and be willing to stand up and say that in the first place. But then also I’d like to sit back and go, Oh, okay, it’s taken me this long, and now this is an opportunity to find pleasure. It’s never too late. Our bodies never shut down. In fact, after menopause for women is actually our pleasure time. It’s when things really start to get interesting and come online, even though we’re told by absolutely all parts of society that we’re supposed to be finished when we’re 40, right? Like women we no longer see. We no longer want to be heard. We’re no longer considered beautiful. But the truth is that we actually are in our power stage of life, in our most beautiful stage of love, almost erotically alive, turned on charged stage of life. So there’s a piece around owning that as well and being willing to, like, discover the possibility of that and lean into the vulnerability of that as well.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

I think too, like sometimes with the orgasm, it’s it’s a lot of letting go and kind of letting things happen. And I know as women a lot of times we are multitasking or trying to get everything done or fighting our way through the world. And sometimes it’s very hard for us to let go.

Naomi Harris

Oh, absolutely. And we’re so tired, like you said, we are being pulled in all directions. And then the thought that, oh, now I have an orgasm on my to-do list as well. Like, so and again, a bit of a reframe is needed for this because the thing about pleasure, because of the way that we’re built with these nervous systems, pleasure is actually the fuel that we can tap into if we’re able to slow down and let pleasure be something that we feel in our bodies. Even the word pleasure I know puts people’s backs up will be people listening to this going, oh, she keeps on saying it. But even like just dropping into that and allowing it to be can actually fuel our lives so that that state of stress and just getting by and coping and feeling like we’re running from all of the lions all the time, that actually changes. So it’s not like orgasm is on the to-do list, then it’s something else to be ticked off. It’s actually fueling the to-do list and then it’s a much nicer list to be getting ticked off as well because it’s a bit more energy and a bit more life in it.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

So how do we go about finding that pleasure inside of us finding that orgasm?

Naomi Harris

Yes, that’s the secret, right? That’s the trick. And in some ways, it might seem like what I’m about to say might seem really boring and really simple, because what I’m not going to say, not going to say, just to be clear, I’m not going to say go out and buy another vibrator and like try all these sex tips and tricks. And what I’m actually going to say is slow down, pay attention to your body, learn how to touch your body, and actually feel what you’re touching and be here in this body. We’re so busy in our heads. We’re so busy living in one week, one day, one year, that 110 years, that we’re not ever here in these bodies. And if we can’t be here in this body, how can we feel anything? So if we’re not fully present in this body, even for those like micro-moments, because it will be micro-moments to start with as we start retraining, to actually be back in the body and truly feeling that’s where pleasure comes from. And it’s also important to acknowledge just how slow we need to go, because, again, especially if it’s on our to-do list today, I’m going to sort out my orgasms. It will be very much like, Oh, my body, let’s get this thing sorted. We’ve got a job to do when actually the body is like, could we just like sit still for a moment and just spend a bit of time together and breathe and feel and not have this experience also to be something that’s creating stress and creating tension because that’s the exact opposite of what we’re trying to create anyway, with pleasure and orgasm.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Yeah. When you are working with clients on this topic, do you, do you start with the client first, like have them try to work this out in their body first before introducing a partner to the situation or how does the partner come into this?

Naomi Harris

Yeah. Okay. So it really depends a lot on the situation. And of course, as you know from your own practice, it’s always unique and it’s always different. And I would never say, no, don’t play with your partner because that’s, you know, I don’t want to interfere with the relationship in that way either. I’ll create, you know, the tension and the dynamic there. But what I do include while my female clients are beginning to be in their bodies and beginning to open up their pleasure pathways, one of the things that is clear is that especially because I work a lot with pain, so not end with numbness. And one of the things that is clear is that if a body, a female body is having sex and it’s not ready to be having sex or it’s having sex, that hurts or it’s having sex because my partner really wants it tonight and I and I love him and I want to give it to him, but actually I would prefer not to. The body feels that I can justify it and rationalize it and think, Oh, let’s just get this, let’s just get through this. I love them, or whatever it is that’s going on. But for our bodies, it’s still an experience that’s not pleasant and that can often, without blame or judgment, there’s never any blame or judgment because relationships are complex and sex lives are complex, and it can bring like a situation in the body where it doesn’t actually have a lot of trust, it doesn’t have a lot of trust that it’s no and it’s is going to be listened to or that the sex or the touch is going to be slow enough to honor exactly where the body is at and what it’s needing. And so while my clients are doing the work to wake up their bodies and wake up their pleasure, I also bring in the trust aspect with their partner. So it’s technically non-sexual. I bring in nonsexual practices, but they’re deeply intimate and they’re very connected in their skin-on-skin practices. But they’re not sex. So there is that opportunity while she is working through what she needs to work through that that experience of them and their closeness happens at the same time so that as her body wakes up or as her pain starts to release, they already have like this new basis of trust between their bodies that they can then lean on as they start to experience sex in a new way.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

That’s also beautiful, too. And, you know, I was thinking with this, you sometimes I get the question, you know, I’ve had people who’ve come in, maybe they’ve had surgery below and have actual nerve damage or, you know, or have had genital mutilation or, you know, had labia plastics that have gone wrong. And I find that sometimes clients are so focused on the genitals as the source of an orgasm. Once again, you know, you were saying it’s coming from within. It’s not you know, that person giving me an orgasm is not the genitals. Can you talk about how it’s not necessarily a genital thing?

Naomi Harris

It’s not and our bodies are completely wired for pleasure. So, you know, these these these myths, these stories that we hear about full body orgasm or nipple orgasms or it’s all absolutely possible. It’s all absolutely there in your body waiting for you. So if you are somebody and also for women who have experienced sexual trauma, for example, and while they’re healing and working through that, their genitals are just a no-go. It doesn’t mean that you have to be cut off from all pleasure and all good sensations in your body. There is the possibility of waking up all areas of the body. And the other thing to say, you know, especially about, for example, when there’s scarring or where there have been operations or where there has been trauma that can also be worked with, that doesn’t have to be something that is yours forever. It may just take time and it may take a whole lot of gentleness and a whole lot of snow slowness, which can be frustrating for our busy heads who want to get it sorted, but while that healing is happening, having the rest of your body as your playground can also make that experience a whole lot more fun as well. Also, if you have a partner and you have partner intimacy exploring the possibility of that together can be a really beautiful option as well.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

I mean, that’s the thing where I always joke that I’m like like you’re looking at my sex organ right now because we’re looking at each other skin, right? Yeah. That’s probably one of our most important. And we get a lot of skin. There’s a lot of different places.

Naomi Harris

Yeah.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

So and to add to that, I’ve even seen research where people who are paraplegic or, you know, they have no feeling from the waist down, from the neck down, they can still orgasm because they have an intact brain. Yeah. And that’s where.

Naomi Harris

Wonderful vagus nerve. It brings us all sorts of excellent experiences, including the possibility of orgasm, we think. I mean, I know that the research isn’t clear yet, but we think it ends in the cervix. So anywhere from the cervix all the way up to the base of the brain has the possibility for pleasure and for orgasm. And we get so fixated on nipple or clit, you know, that’s like really simplifying it down when really it’s the possibility of pleasure is endless.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

You know, in fact, actually, I probably should have started with this because if there’s somebody who’s never had an orgasm or even people who’ve had, maybe they’re wondering, like, what exactly is an orgasm?

Naomi Harris

Oh, that’s a question. Well, it actually. Okay, so this is I mean, it’s a nerve firing. Yeah, it’s a nerve firing that’s creating some rhythmic movement, contraction, and sensation in the body. It’s a little. That’s a good question, Betsy, and it’s a little tricky. We also have a couple of different we have different kinds of orgasms as well, which are okay. This is why it’s a little bit of a difficult question to answer. Okay.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

So, no, I don’t think there’s any honestly, I don’t think I threw you a curve ball. And I guess I really don’t know anybody on the face of the earth can actually answer what that is because it’s so.

Naomi Harris

because, for example, women who experience cervical orgasms experience and describe complete transcendental states where they are at one with the universe and they have experiences of God and of lifeforce energy that can last for hours. And if they’re having partnered sex with a man whose penis is touching the cervix at that moment, they can take it with them and they can co-create these kinds of an out of worldly experiences. So how do we say it? What’s that? Is that a nervous system? Well, like it’s orgasm. It’s a mystery. That’s my slogan for today, you know? And so it’s, like, really dependent on which part of the body and which what nerves are firing and which part of us is involved. And if it’s a purely physical experience of just the body and the nervous system, and then there’s the emotional body that also gets involved. And whatever you believe about God or spirit or the thing that is outside and bigger than us, if that aspect of you is also involved and there’s so much to it. Yeah, this is unique for everybody. It’s everybody has a different experience and that’s why also I think that’s hard to put into words.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

You know, is there anything that I didn’t ask you about orgasm that you specifically want us to know about?

Naomi Harris

Yeah, I think if anybody is listening to this now and they’re like, well, she hasn’t actually given anything practical. Like, I haven’t actually given you any practical tips. Right, except a little bit like slow down, whatever that is supposed to make. So I think maybe that would be a good thing to say is that if you’re listening and you’re you’ve never had an orgasm or you’ve only had a clitoral orgasm, and you’re curious about the other kinds of orgasm that are available, or you used to have orgasms and now they’ve stopped or, you know, whatever your personal situation is, what I would say is start treating your body like it’s something that you love and it’s something that you’re curious about learning about. Treat it like it’s the most amazing thing that you can imagine. And you just want to know about it so that instead of having a goal of, I’m going to learn how to have an orgasm, you actually have like a being state of being in your body and feeling in your body, which takes the pressure off as well. And then just start with simple being in the body. Practices like dancing are a beautiful thing to do, especially if you involve your hips and your pelvis in it. So you get a bit of movement and a bit of blood flow going, or do a practice where you touch your body but you don’t touch it with the goal of orgasm. But for example, so I’m touching now the back of my hand and my fingers, and what I’m noticing is the feeling of my fingers touching my hand, but also the feeling of my hand being touched by my fingers. So I’m waking up the nerve endings of both of those parts of the body. And if we do that slowly and consciously and with our breath, that alone has the pleasure to the potential to wake up pleasure pathways. So that’s what I would say is to take the pressure off. Don’t make it something that you have to achieve, but make it a place for you to investigate and play and discover what’s actually possible for you in that place.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

And then I wanted to actually I’m going to circle back on. You mentioned that there are a couple of different types of orgasms. And what do you mean by that?

Naomi Harris

Well, again, the jury’s out on this one. And it seems like every time I pick up a book or a journal, somebody has discovered a new place that we can have you know, like they’re always naming spots. You know, we’ve got the X-spot, the G-spot, the A-spot, and all of those. So what it means is what a lot of women are familiar with, those that do orgasm is a clitoral orgasm. So it’s using the head of the clitoris, which is the little part that pokes out at the top of your vulva. And through stimulation of that, there is the possibility of an orgasm. The clitoris is actually longer than my fingers. Now if I’m resting, as you know, of course, but if I’m resting them along my labia and it’s such a complex system and so, you know, 8000 nerve endings and it’s built for pleasure, but we can actually access that through our labia and through the urethra, genital sponge as well. So that area between the clitoris and the opening of the vagina also has amazing nerve endings. And also you can access the G-spot through that area as well. So there is the possibility in all of those areas, let alone around the anus and the perineum and the opening of the vagina and all of the structures inside all the way up to the cervix. They all hold their own pleasure potential and they all hold their own possibility of orgasm. And sometimes it can be something as simple as going well. I’m used to having a clitoral orgasm. Maybe today I’m just going to touch around the opening of my vagina without trying to force something to happen. Because the other thing, if you are used to clitoral orgasm, and especially if you’re a vibrator user, there can be this sense of orgasm is something that we do like. It’s like a goal that needs to be reached and the orgasms in the rest of the body aren’t so much like that. They’re kind of more of a softer, more spread out experience in terms of the stimulation of them because they’re using different nerves and different ways of the nervous stimulation. So, yeah, I mean, there’s cervical orgasms, there’s G-spot or sponge orgasms. There are all of the different clitoral complex orgasms. This orgasms around the anus, inside the anus in all of the structures of the vulva. And then, of course, there’s orgasms that are possible in the nipples and backs of the knees. The ears can be, for some women, the most erogenous part and the most orgasmic part of the body. In the throat, there is orgasmic potential in every part of the body. And sometimes it might take a little bit of a redefinition of what we think orgasm is because of those extremely expanded states of pleasure where it’s not like I went for something and then it happened and then we were finished, but it’s like, Whoa, I did this thing. And then it just kept on going. And then more things started happening. And that’s also orgasm and that’s also a pleasure, but it’s like learning what’s possible in the body.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Yeah, that brought up something that I just thought about and I was like, You know what? I didn’t really connect this until now, but when I was doing this other personal development training, we were talking about how the brain is only really good at focusing on one sensation at a time. And so this is one of those things where we can kind of apply it to anything that we want to focus on. But I know I’ll say personally for me, I know that if my eyes are open it’s hard for me to focus on anything else. It’s hard for me to hear. It’s hard for me to feel like I’m very visually oriented. So for me, I’m one of those people that when I’m having sex, I have to close my eyes to be able to feel what I’m doing. But for other people, they may be auditory stimulated, so maybe it’s making noises during sex, or maybe you are visual, maybe you, you know, maybe that for you the visual is like going to be the thing that’s going to cause that orgasm. But trying to figure out what sense you’re playing with a different like maybe we’ll try making noises, maybe we’ll close our eyes, maybe I’ll focus more on touch.

Naomi Harris

So yeah, absolutely. And also, if you are one of those people that have so much in their heads and really struggles to be fully or if you’re partnered to a woman who’s in her head and she’s struggling to be in her body and, you know, and you want to support her with that. One of the most important things that you can do to support that is to never take a hand off her because as long as there’s a touch on our skin, we have something to focus on. If you take your hands off or if you ask too many questions or if there’s too much like mental chatter going on, those of us that are too much in our heads, we just spin off into our heads. So really like refining that down to a hand on the skin and supporting that focus and awareness can also just be a really beautiful way to start that process. And then like you said, like, if that, if having the eyes open is too much or if hearing things is too much or like really getting clearer, what is it that you need in order to completely be here? And then if you’re partnered, how can you support each other in that way to be here as well?

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

I love this. This has been great advice. Thank you so much. Where can people find out more about you?

Naomi Harris

Through my website, Betsy, it’s probably the easiest place. I’ve got loads of resources there as well. I’ve got blog posts, I have a podcast, and there are lots of free downloads if you want to download things to support you around pleasure as well. I’ve got a little guide called Pleasure Amplified that takes you through some step by step that you can use. Yes, I would say find me on my website. It’s probably the best place.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

I would highly recommend everybody go check that out because I’ve looked at her website and it is absolutely amazing. So I really, you’ve got a great website with tons of resources, so. Oh, well, thank you so much, Naomi, for taking the time to talk with us this has been absolutely brilliant. I love speaking with you. So I thank you for for having the time with us today.

Naomi Harris

Thank you, Betsy. I love this topic. I will shout this topic from the rooftops for the rest of my life. So any excuse to come on and share about it is absolutely my pleasure.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Wonderful. Everybody make sure you stick around because we have some amazing sessions still coming up. You know, first of all, I’m going to take a step back when you take a great summit expert like this and you hear it once, it’s not enough. I find that these are the types of topics that you have to hear over and over and over again for them to sneak into your brain. So if you haven’t already bought the summit package, make sure you do. But otherwise, if not, make sure you’re watching all these sessions. Don’t skip any and we got great ones coming up.