Food & Hormones: Mastering Your Endocrine System

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Beautiful. Well, thank you, Felice. Thank you for having me at this summit. I feel so strongly about women’s health, just as you do. You mentioned that you and I have traveled in similar circles, talking about very related topics. How did I get interested in all of this? Well, first and foremost, I have always been into nutrition, and nutrition can be applied as the foundation or bedrock for so many different imbalances, whether we are talking about women’s health, men’s health, or kids’ health. Nutrition is the common denominator that we all share because we all need to make choices about what to eat. When I think about polycystic ovarian syndrome, this is a very interesting connection to a condition that is on the rise. I think we are seeing more and more women struggling with reproductive health and fertility, and sometimes, in part, that is due to PCOS. 

Just recently, I have been doing more with endocrine nutrition, looking at a variety of different topics. They are looking at how we make hormones, how we transport them, and how we effectively activate, metabolize, and even eliminate them. One of the areas that I have been lecturing on for some time, together with Dr. Bland over the years, through the Institute for Functional Medicine, and even at a forum with you, is that of metabolic detoxification. Detoxification is essential. It is part of hormone health. I think that it is one of the things that gets often overlooked because as people just think about putting in more hormones, they do not think about how the body is treating the hormones and what kinds of metabolites they are getting. Liver health is essential for women with PCOS, and we can talk a little bit more about all of those different steps with nutrients and different ways to eat, especially as it ties into insulin and insulin sensitivity.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, because the conventional medical world never tries to heal the production of hormones or even discusses how the body eliminates the old hormone. This is such a novel idea for so many of the health care providers who are also listening in on this talk, because the philosophy of conventional medicine has always been to just get rid of the ovaries in some form or fashion, not necessarily surgically, of course, but in terms of shutting them down through various medications. The goal of nutrition science seems to be to help repair all these mechanisms. Share with us some of the foods and how they interplay between production, distribution, degradation, and elimination of hormones.

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Well, let us start in the trenches with the gut, because we know that there is so much of a connection between the gut microbiome and our ability to effectively eliminate and have regular bowel movements. I know it sounds like a very basic topic to enter into the discussion with, but it is fundamental. Most women, they’re not see that there is gastrointestinal gynecological access. In other words, how our gut is is typically how our reproductive organs are. They share the same anatomical space. If we have a leaky gut, we may also have leaky ovaries. We start to see how inflammation can go from the gut and start to permeate through that anatomical space into other neighboring organs. I think we have to first start with nutrition for the gut. How do we get the guts on straight in? 

One of the most basic things that people can do is get enough dietary fiber. It sounds simple, but it does sometimes take some effort to ensure that we are getting enough fiber and that we are also getting diverse fibers. Some people are just eating the same foods every day, and they are creating this monoculture in the gut instead of the diverse polyculture of microorganisms that can better strengthen our immune system and our overall systemic health. When I think of sources of fiber for women, and this can be, any person can pick and choose their favorite fiber sources. But I am thinking of legumes; black beans and legumes of different types are great sources. Nuts, seeds, fruits, and vegetables, especially non-starchy vegetables, that dietary fiber will not only help us from the level of elimination but also trap things that have been biotransformed but delivered and are coming out through the bile will trap them in that fiber matrix and take them out of the body. 

We also know, Felice, that a lot of these short-chain fatty acids that are produced by fermenting these fibers can help to cross-talk and signal systemically to other organs in the brain. I think that when we take care of our guts, we reduce leaky gut, which means that we can reduce sleepiness in other organs—leaky ovaries, leaky brain overall, just leakiness within the cells. I think our first line of defense with nutrition has to come first, just talking about some of the basics. We also know that fiber will help to smooth out blood sugar. When people have a lot of these refined carbohydrates, it spikes blood sugar. This further exacerbates any kind of insulin resistance issue. Fiber can help us with that as well.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, I love hearing what you are saying, about legumes, because so many people just say, They are full of starch. We do not want them. They are carbs, and they are what the body needs. It is so important, and I am so happy to hear you say that. But what do you say to people who say, I cannot eat those things? They make my blood sugar high. You just sort of touched on that. But maybe you can come back to that because I hear that over and over. The same is true with fruit.

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Yes. Well, fortunately, nature gives us a lot of different fiber sources. If we feel that we cannot deal with fruit or legumes or have some resistance to them or that they are inaccessible to us for some reason, then I would say to go with things like non-starchy vegetables and leafy greens, which will give us not only the dietary fiber but also the folate in the magnesium. Magnesium is also important for women with PCOS, and we know that magnesium plays a role in insulin sensitivity as well as even helping with the conversion of vitamin D in the body. 

If some people do not like legumes, sometimes what I say is to try out different preparations; maybe try hummus; try to soak those legumes and make them into a soup. I think for so many people, they just think it is beans in a can. It can be so much more than beans in a can. If fruit is challenging, what I would say is to focus on the low-glycemic fruits that have a lot of nutrient-density berries. Most people have no problem with blueberries or blackberries, which are high in polyphenols and help to better fortify the gut. I think that there are all kinds of options and inroads there based on personal preferences, and we have lots of choices. 

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, I do personally love legumes. I had navy bean vegetable soup last night. It was fantastic. I tried different recipes. That was a first for my recipe experience trying that one. That is great. It is music to my ears to talk about having fiber in the diet because so many people are now emphasizing just fats. We need a balance. Maybe you could bring up the topic of fat and what role that plays.

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Yes. My doctoral research was on essential fatty acids. Essential fatty acids are specific types of fatty acids that our body cannot make. If we are not getting them in our diet, we can have issues with fertility as well as with hair, skin, nails, behavior, and mood disorders. If you think about it, every single cell in the body has a membrane, and that membrane typically contains certain fats. Those fats come from whatever we are supplying in our diet. Also, however, our body makes certain fats. 

Getting proper proportions of certain kinds of fat is important for women’s health overall. When I think of omega-3 fatty acids and omega-6 fatty acids, those are the two families of essential fats that most people consume because they are eating more of a processed diet. They are getting too much of the omega-6 and not enough of the omega-3. The omega-3s are the more anti-inflammatory fats. When we have a proper balance of those two families of fats, we do not see so much inflammation. We see fat throughout the body. 

What is unique about the ovaries is that most people are not aware of this, but whenever I think of the ovaries, I think of the color orange. That is in part why I am wearing this color today, because I was thinking I was going to be talking with Felice about PCOS and ovarian health. One of the things we think of with plant foods is carotenoids. Carotenoids are plant pigments found in nature, typically in orange-colored foods. As it turns out, there was a study in which they identified up to 13 different carotenoids located in the ovary itself. It seems as though those carotenoids are important for healthy ovulation and also conversion into things like vitamin A, so certain of those carotenoids, beta-carotene, convert to vitamin A in vitamin A, which plays a role in that ovulatory process. 

Whenever I think of fats, I often think, Well, what else is important that’s fat-soluble? What else should we be getting in the diet along with those omega-3s? The counterpart to it would be the carotenoids. Having a plant-rich diet, all kinds of plant foods count, but especially for women. Focus on oranges, mangoes, citrus fruit, persimmons, tangerines, carrots, and these kinds of foods. There was another study that showed that when women were getting more fruits, and, more fruits containing one of those carotenoids by the name of beta-cryptoxanthin, which people do not have to remember, but was just one carotenoid, they had a reduced ovarian decline. In other words, they kept their ovaries healthier for longer. Whenever you think of good, healthy fats, think of those carotenoids because those carotenoids are fat-soluble. That is why many times people have heard of those carrots that have been steamed with a little bit of oil or butter because they need a little bit of those carotenoids. Carotenoids need some healthy fats to be absorbed, but with fruits, you do not necessarily need as much of the fat. It seems to be in a matrix that allows for better bioavailability. Keep in mind the color orange when it comes to food and ovaries.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, that is phenomenal information for some people who never think of these ingredients. I call them the magic sauce of fruits and vegetables that can add so much to a woman’s health, particularly women with PCOS. But you brought up carotenoids. They are part of this magical group that we call polyphenols. I thought maybe you could touch on some of the others. There are still beans and the ones that come from isoflavones and so on. Maybe just touch on what their role is and how they link to phytoestrogens, and is that good or bad? Are we getting estrogen? Is it too much? And what are the magical benefits, or what should we look out for in terms of not getting too much? Is that even possible?

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Wow, there’s a lot there. Okay. In nutrition, many times people focus on protein, carbohydrates, and fat. I call them the Three Musketeers. Those are the caloric portions of foods. Usually, when people read a nutrition facts label, they are looking at protein. How many grams am I getting? We just talked about fat. Those are separate. We just park those over to the side, and then separate from the macronutrients, there are the micronutrients, vitamins, and minerals. When we are talking minerals, we are talking zinc, calcium, copper, iron, and things of that nature. What you are asking me about is the third tier of nutrition, which refers to phytonutrients. That is one of the largest categories of nutrients. There are a plethora of them in the plant kingdom. I do not even think that we have identified the thousands upon thousands of different phytonutrients, but let us just have some working terms to break them out. 

I just mentioned the carotenoids, so I studied the carotenoids in graduate school at the University of Illinois at Chicago with people who knew so much about carotenoids. Dr. Phyllis Cohen and Dr. Maria Sapuntzakis. I did studies on these plant pigments, and so the carotenoids are a family of about 700 compounds in nature. They tend to be red, orange, and yellow, or, in some cases, a little bit of green. When it is autumn and the leaves go from green into their colorful variety, you see the carotenoids. Many times even if you are eating green leaves like kale or spinach, you are getting some of those carotenoids. Now, what you are asking me about is a class of polyphenols. Polyphenols are cousins to carotenoids, and polyphenols are the largest category of phytochemicals. There are about 8,000 types of polyphenols. That is huge. 

Even within the polyphenol category, you have different categories. What you are asking me is, Deanna, What can you tell us about these flavonoids, still beans, and phytoestrogens? Within polyphenols, you have phenolic acids. Simple things. I am drinking a cup of tea, and many times you get some coffeic acid and chlorogenic acid, just simple polyphenols that you could have in tea or coffee. But then you have more complex varieties of polyphenols—more than one phenol. You have the flavonoids, things that modulate the mood and the brain a bit. Then you have the non-flavonoids, things like resveratrol, which are part of the still-bean family. By the way, most people do not realize that resveratrol fights estrogen. 

Do people need to be afraid of phytoestrogens? Phyto just means plant estrogen; it refers to the hormone structure, the steroid structure. It is not to be feared. Every time we have food, we get copious amounts of hormones, neurotransmitters, and all kinds of signaling agents from the plant. These tend to be much weaker in amount and also inactive in our bodies. In some cases, they can block some of the activity of the more, I would say aggressive body estrogens which have so many great benefits. Now, one of the secret sources of phytoestrogens is also to make sure that you have a healthy gut microbiome because the efficacy of many of these phytoestrogens is dependent on how our gut microbiome metabolizes them. 

Let us take soy. Many people are on the fence about soy. Do I do soy? Do I not do soy? Soy foods are available in a variety of quality levels. But if you have a gut microbiome that can convert some of those isoflavones, which are part of the polyphenol family, into other types of compounds that can help with skin and bone, then you are going to do quite well with the soy. That is why it is not that certain Asian populations, may have a certain microbiome that helps them get to more of those better metabolites. 

I think so much depends on the individual and how they metabolize these compounds from plants. I think we just need to think about the whole food matrix. If we are talking about isolated soy isoflavones, that might be a little bit different for the individual. But when we are talking about food, food is comprised of thousands upon thousands of compounds, some of which we do not even know. Not to mention the microbiome of the food itself.

Felice Gersh, MD

It is overwhelming, but I think the takeaway is very powerful: you should work on your gut microbiome so that it will utilize the foods properly. I have heard the same thing regarding pomegranates: that you need to have the right microbiome. You do not get what you ideally should if you do not have the microbiome. 

Maybe tell us also in terms of getting rid of bad old estrogen, because we want to be able to get rid of old and then make new. How does the gut microbiome play into that in the liver stages of detoxification, and what can we do after we understand it? How can we improve our situation so that we can deal with our old estrogen better?

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Now let us move from the gut to the liver to deliver the general of the army. The liver calls out the alert, which kind of organizes fats in the body. The liver organizes toxins and toxin removal. What is interesting is that hormones treat toxins. They go through the same phases and the same enzymes that something that would be toxic in the environment would go through. How do we keep our livers healthy? Whether we have PCOS or endometriosis, we are in perimenopause. Much of our health is determined by the health of our liver. Some of the foods that help us with the liver and processing our estrogens would be cruciferous vegetables. Things like broccoli, Brussels sprouts, kale, cauliflower, and a lot of the stinky sulfur-containing vegetables. 

Now, a very simple tip here is to steam those vegetables just ever so slightly so that you inactivate certain things that you do not necessarily want, like Goitrogens or other kinds of compounds that could interfere with some of the activity. I would say just a little bit of steaming until those cruciferous vegetables become brightly colored would be good for the liver. The other thing that is very good for the liver would be the pomegranate you mentioned. Pomegranate is what is called a bifunctional modulator. It works on phase one and phase two of the liver, anything that is going to be moving things through. 

Felicia, I would like to hear your take on caffeine, because caffeine is also something that leaves certain liver enzymes. But we all respond differently. Each of us has different genes that can lead to different functions of those particular enzymes. For certain women, they make certain kinds of estrogen that are more carcinogenic. By helping to modulate those estrogens and having more of those things—grapes, polyphenols, and resveratrol—we can help to bring the metabolism a bit better in check. I think it is good for people to work with a healthcare practitioner to understand their genetics so that they can understand how they are detoxifying.

Felice Gersh, MD

It is very complex, and we know that many women with PCOS do have liver problems. They have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, and they also have a lot of problems with their gut and different motility problems. Sometimes they have constipation, sometimes diarrhea, and so on. In terms of just looking at an overview, they should eat cruciferous vegetables and not eat too many raw ones.

Any other suggestions for helping with detoxification of the different phases and just kind of helping to balance how all this can work together with the production?

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Yes. My basic mantra for helping with liver health and detoxification is protein plus plants, the two P’s. I do not want to forget Protein from this conversation. Protein is a very hot topic now because so many people think about skeletal muscle mass and resistance training. Making sure we have enough protein can help to better balance blood sugar as well. Protein is necessary for detoxification, at least in the second phase of detoxification, where we have sulfur compounds and other compounds that are involved and complex with that hormone and then carry it out of the body through bile or even through the urine. I think it is important to make sure that people are getting protein with every meal, which will help in detoxification. 

The site of plants is key. I do think that walking people through the rainbow of plants is essential. I already talked about oranges. Anything that is nutrient-dense and high in antioxidants will help with detoxification. It will be imparting fiber, vitamins, and minerals, all of which will be important for that process. When I think of red foods, I think of anything from cherries to raspberries to watermelon to beets. Beets are excellent for detoxification. There are certain compounds in beets, that can help the body with nitric oxide production. There are nitrates in the beet greens as well as in the beetroot, which is good for the heart and overall health. 

Orange, we have already talked about with yellow. Yellow is important for detoxification as well. Here is what I think about lemons. Bio-flavonoids. I think about ginger. You mentioned that many women with PCOS, many often have motility issues, so that could denote that there can be issues with neurotransmitters or just the overall gut microbiome. There could be so many things there. With ginger, a yellow food, ginger has some role with motility and can help with just moving things through. I think that might be something to consider in the way of yellow. 

Also bringing in yellow foods with proteolytic enzymes to help with digestion. Things like pineapple, when it is in season. All of these different foods, bring the rainbow together and green is a big one for detoxification because green gives us folate. Folate, as a B vitamin, helps with what is called methylation. Methylation is a very important process in detoxification. When we think of green, we think of cleansing, chlorophyll, folate, and even vitamin K and vitamin K1. I think vitamin K is the next vitamin D because it is important for bone, cardiovascular, and coagulation. Then, of course, I think blue-purple foods are important for detox. That would be things like berries, blueberries, and Concord grapes. Paying attention to what is in season can also be important. Just to back up, I also think of things like Dandelion, we can be bringing in teas, and herbal teas that can help with liver detox vacation as well. Just today I posted on my Instagram detoxification approaches throughout the body systems, and I spoke to the guts, the kidneys, the liver, the skin, and the lungs. What I want women to think about while they are thinking about what will help fuel the cleansing process physically is that there are also emotional connections to these organs. When we are moving things through the liver, I often think, at least in traditional Chinese medicine, that there is a connection to a lot of emotions that could come up. I am married to an acupuncturist, so we have a lot of these conversations about how, when we work on our physical body, we may have an emotional release. 

I want to acknowledge that because, through nutritional detoxification, what I have seen in the clinic is that people will change their lives when they go through detoxification, even if it is for 21 days. Their minds will become clearer. They will be sleeping better, and they will be living better. They will get clear on their purpose. I have seen people quit their jobs, have babies, and move to different locations and relationships, all connected to a metabolic detoxification program. I was not even focusing on those things. I was just getting their body clear with the proper nutrients—protein,  phytonutrients, and healthy fats—to enable their body to work better so that mentally and emotionally they are in a different place.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, you mentioned making babies. Of course, the most common cause of infertility for women is PCOS. In terms of utilizing nutrition to improve not just detoxification but ovarian function, which you already touched on quite a bit, but in terms of helping women to ovulate more regularly to lower their testosterone or other androgen levels, which are so destructive to their quality of life as well as their health. How can these magical ingredients in plants and other food sources help to improve ovary function? Is it also related to their HPA access? Is that where it is, or is there more to it? Maybe you could help us understand how we can use food as medicine to improve fertility and ovarian function.

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Let us talk about that endocrine circuit because, in functional medicine, this is referred to as a communication highway. It is not just the adrenals. We also have the hypothalamus-pituitary, the pineal, the thyroid, and the pancreas, which gets left out of the endocrine but is truly part of the endocrine and exocrine. Then we have the ovaries in women and the testes in men, and then the adrenals; the skin is even endocrine. 

Any kind of skin issue we have could be connected to endocrine dysfunction. This entire circuit of communication within us determines so much. It determines our feelings, our behavior, our mood state, and our ovarian function. When a woman is struggling with menstrual health and fertility, one of the first things to look at is her cortisol rhythm or circadian rhythm. How is this communication circuit within her communicating? Some women feel the effects of stress at the level of their ovaries. For other women, they feel it on their thyroid. For other women, it is more of a gut issue. For every woman, I think we have to stress in a very personalized way. For some people, they cannot sleep. They kind of get the monkey mind. They have a lot of worry for other people. They feel it in their gut. then they get constipation and diarrhea, alternating. For every woman, it is going to look very different. 

But I do think that supporting this endocrine access and looking at nutrition is key because how we support that endocrine access with healthy protein, carbohydrate, and fat as the building blocks and then leveling up from that, looking at the different cofactors that we need to run the pathway, is connected to proper hormone signaling. We are thinking of the vitamins A, D, E, and K. The fat-soluble ones I mentioned with vitamin K are particularly important for the ovaries and the thyroid. Then we look at the water-soluble vitamins vitamin C and vitamin B, which get depleted with stress in the adrenals, and the phytonutrients in plants. But as you are speaking, we can start to lean on the adaptogenic effects of plants. 

The beauty of plants in our environment and when we take them into our bodies is that they enable us to adapt better. When we take them in, whether it is Rhodiola, Ashwagandha, or Maca, there are so many different adaptogen plants that we also need to tailor them to the individual because they can have different responses. But essentially, what plants are enabling us to do is, at the cellular level, respond a little bit differently to help us buffer from the effects of that stress. If we are working on cortisol as the stress hormone, that is going to better balance insulin and glucose, if we could think of that as a triangle. If we can help with cortisol, we are balancing any kind of insulin issues, Insulin resistance: if we modify the diet to have more fiber in less processed carbohydrates, we are changing insulin and glucose, which can help to modify cortisol. 

I think that plants are helping us because they are smart and intelligent, and their wisdom comes into our bodies to help us adapt better. That is why working with a healthcare practitioner who can work with tailored products and more therapeutic products is important to figure out, Okay, how can we give you a plant product to better regulate and modulate your endocrine communication? How can we help your pituitary talk better in a metaphorical way with your adrenals and your ovaries? Because sometimes there is a communication gap. That is what plants can help us to do: repair and, I would say, rejuvenate that circuit. Felice, you talk a lot too; in fact, I was listening to Dr. Altshuler’s talk today in a great webinar about adaptogens. The circadian rhythm is a big thing. Many women are working late at night; they are on the computer. They do not have enough darkness. They are not going to sleep at the proper time. They are on their phones, scrolling. They have all this artificial light, which is not enabling their pineal gland to produce melatonin. If melatonin is off, cortisol will be off. Now we have another triangle to consider: the melatonin, cortisol, and even magnesium triangles of sleep. 

Once we start to throw that off, I often tell people that sunlight is too vitamin D as darkness is to melatonin. Many of us have a darkness deficiency, which we just heard about during the pandemic, with everybody thinking, I need to get into the sun. Vitamin D is important, as we know, for ovarian health and immune health. But so is the counterpart of melatonin, which is more than a hormone; vitamin D is more than a vitamin. I do think that we need to be attentive to the circadian rhythm to better fuel our endocrine communication because how we sleep will be how we eat the next day; how we eat translates into how we sleep that night. It is a never-ending cycle; if we do not break the cycle at one point or another, then we do not create healing.

Felice Gersh, MD

That is critically important information, and most people do not know that there are melatonin receptors in the ovary. Yes, it is related to fertility, ovulation, menstrual cycle function, and so on. all critically important information. You honing in on food as part of the therapeutic process for women with PCOS, along with all the other lifestyle issues. Start with the gut, and start with nutrition for people who do not know how to use food and enjoy it. Do you have any suggestions? Do you say go online, find recipe books, or for people who do not cook and do not even know all of these different vegetables? You can throw out all these colors, and as you said, they usually eat the same four or five things every day.

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Yes.

Felice Gersh, MD

Where do you start with this group? There are a lot of people here who are not familiar with all these different colorful fruits and vegetables and have no clue how to cook them, how to enjoy them, or anything else. Where do you start for people who are at ground zero on how to work with food as medicine?

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

That is a great question. This is the place where the tire hits the road, How do I put this into action? I moved out of seeing people one-on-one years ago because I felt that I was challenged in some way in terms of working with spouses, partners, and families, making sure that the person that I was working with was able to put a lot of this into action. I then moved to groups, so I began doing a lot of community groups. I did an online group, and now we have the advantage of joining online groups for people who can support good, healthy behaviors. There are so many different groups out there that people can join, but everybody learns differently. 

What I would say is that, if you are a person who likes recipes, then yes, a book would be a great place to start. Dr. Mark Hyman, there are so many great cookbooks and different things out there. I am not a recipe person, believe it or not. I like to use my intuition, and I kind of use my creativity to see what I have, and then I just start experimenting. I would say that for women with PCOS, how do we as women move into our creativity? One of the ways that we can do that is with food. I give some simple tips. One is to try one new food every week. Now, that might be a food that you have not had in a long time. As an example, leeks, when was the last time you had leeks? They are usually in season at certain times of the year, depending on where you live. 

Go with something a little bit more seasonal, go to a different market or grocery store if you can, and look at their produce. Just pick one thing that you have not had in a while look it up online and get some ideas as to how I can prepare it. I recently made a raw carrot cake, I had never tried this recipe, but it was fun to make it because I had a lot of carrots, and I was thinking, I need to do something with all these carrots. Just try certain things, and you will learn in the process. 

The second thing that I encourage people to do when starting to make these changes is to use spices. Now, spices are pretty much in everybody’s kitchen. Even if there are two spices there, you still have a spice, I am sure, even if it is cinnamon. The thing about cinnamon is that it creates more insulin sensitivity. A lot of these spices are incredible. They are concentrated in phytonutrients, they are inexpensive, they are accessible to many people, and they make food taste good. What I would say is to aim to try five unique spices throughout the week. 

The third thing that I focus on is while I do talk about eating the rainbow as much as you can, just to have fun. But then the other part of it is also variety. It was back to what you and I spoke about, where sometimes I think I often observe people in multiple respects. They will tell me that they eat the same food over and over again. I will also look at their lives; they are in a life rut. They need to change things. They need to get out of those old habits by trying new foods and getting variety. 

One of the things that we learned from the American Gut Project was that if you can get to 30 diverse plant foods in seven days, that is a good benchmark for gut health. If you can just get to 30, and I did this within one of my online groups where we tried to get to at least 50 unique plant foods in seven days, people could do that. It was not too difficult. When you go to the grocery store, instead of buying a bag of apples, you pick different kinds of apples because every type of apple has a different phytonutrient profile. That I would say those are the tips: color, creativity, and diversity. If you can just remember those three things. 

For some people, they need a diet. They need a little bit more support. Join a community and hire a coach. If you want to get into fitness, you might hire a personal trainer. Sometimes we just need somebody to keep us accountable. Hire a health coach or a nutritionist who can help you along the way, but keep it basic because diets are a little bit tricky. If you go on a diet too many times, you are going to come off that diet. Try to make this a way of life. As you just said, food is medicine. Treat food with the reverence that whatever you are taking in is becoming a part of you and can help you in terms of the next generation that you might be creating.

Felice Gersh, MD

It sounds like it could be a fun adventure.

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Yes.

Felice Gersh, MD

There is the market. I know I am in a very good area. We are very spoiled because I am in Northern California, where we have amazing farmer’s markets. But I did kind of what you said. I would just go through the farmer’s market and go and look at fruits and vegetables. I did not even know their names, and I would just ask the vendor, What is this and how do you recommend I cook it or eat it? You get at least the name of it and some ideas, and then you go and try it. It is amazing what you will do, and hopefully, there will be a lot of things that you will incorporate. Of course, as you mentioned, these are going to be new tastes. You have to maybe experiment with the first one, especially bitter things.

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Bitter would be better, especially for the ovaries and insulin sensitivity. Yes, what counts as bitter, even a cup of green tea. Now I have been drinking this green tea, and I let it steep for a long time so that I am getting a lot of those polyphenols, which do help with metabolism, which do help with insulin sensitivity. Do not underestimate even a cup of tea and what that could provide you in the way of phytochemicals. Not everything has to be expensive or sophisticated. I think just making very small shifts in the direction of more color, creativity, and diversity will ultimately help you get to where you want to be.

Felice Gersh, MD

Absolutely, and I know that for many people, they are going to say, I want to maybe be in one of your courses. I want to read some of your books. How can they find out more about what you have to offer, about your books, and all the different projects that you have been involved with and will continue to be involved with?

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

The best is my website, which is DeannaMinich.com. It is D-E-A-N-N-A and M-I-N-I-C-H dot com and I want to let everybody know that there is a tab up above on the website. It says, Resources and under Resources. If you click that, you will see downloads. I love to educate, and I just want to make beautiful materials to educate. I use a lot of color and graphics. I even have one on endocrine nutrition that people can download. You can see what we have been talking about today, plus a lot more, on those handouts. Take that to your healthcare practitioner, work with them, and say, I have downloaded these materials. I am interested in getting my endocrine system in check so that I have happy hormones. I also have an Eat the Rainbow Tool Kit on the website. It is very easy. You could do this for the whole family, where it is just rainbow bingo, but for food. That is fun. Take whatever you want and have fun with it. I think that is the key. People need to have more fun with food.

Felice Gersh, MD

I love that. I love models. We are all going to take away the last thought of fun with Food for Health, Fertility, and Longevity. Thank you so much. This has been such a great interview. I think everyone needs to go back and listen to it a few times, then go to your website and learn much more. It is so important. Everyone out there with PCOS or caring for women with PCOS needs to know all of this information. 

I cannot thank you enough for joining me, and I look forward to running into you, hopefully not too long from now, at one of our joint conferences.

Deanna Minich, MS, PhD, FACN, CNS, IFMCP

Sounds great. Thank you for having me, as part of this summit.