Harness Oxytocin For Stress Relief & Fertility

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Thank you so much, Dr. Aumatma. It’s so great to be here with you. Yes, I love this topic. I love, this hormone, oxytocin. Oxytocin is a hormone that, if people have heard of it, most have heard about it is like the love hormone or the cuddle hormone. Most often what we hear is, I’m in love, and I have some oxytocin. But there’s so much more that hormones do for us. It’s like a master regulator in the body. One of the things that will be regulated is cortisol, our stress hormone. There’s like a vicious cycle that happens oftentimes with cortisol and oxytocin, where cortisol, our stress hormone, oftentimes causes a lowering of oxytocin, but then oxytocin will help to lower high cortisol. We have this vicious cycle. When somebody has cortisol, they’re not interested in the things against the mere oxytocin. Then oxytocin is what we need to regulate that cortisol. A lot of the work we do is a lot of work I do in helping people—women and men— to understand how to increase their oxytocin to regulate that cortisol. But in addition to that, we have so many other things that happen with oxytocin. Oxytocin is the hormone that can make us feel safe. Oxytocin has been shown in research to help us sleep. Oxytocin has even been shown to help with things like the regulation of serotonin and dopamine, those hormones that are related to happiness, motivation, and drive. I look at this as this mass deregulator hormone that can regulate so many things. One of the things that will probably come up in our talk today, too, is that it even can regulate things like progesterone and our sex hormones. It’s so interrelated as a master hormone. I love it because there are so many times we’re seeking out all of these things outside of ourselves to heal. There’s a thing we can self-generate. 

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

It’s so funny because, as you were talking, I was like, great work. Can you just like put it in my veins? It sounds amazing. I need more of this. The reality, though, is like oxytocin: We can’t measure it yet. It gets less bandwidth because we are just not able to measure it. We’re not able to know if someone is oxytocin-deficient. Do you have a magical way to figure out if we need more oxytocin?

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

The way I describe it to people is that if you feel like you could sleep better if you feel like you could feel safer, if you feel like you could have a better stress response, if you feel like more joy and happiness in your life would be beneficial for you, any of those things feel true. You could probably benefit from more oxytocin. That’s generally how I approach that conversation.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Great. Like everyone all the time.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

You’re at it.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

The second question then is because, everyone’s wondering, how do I get more oxytocin? So let’s just dive right in. What are the things that are going to support oxytocin? Because, as much as we would love an injection of it, it’s not.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

We can get it prescribed by compounding pharmacies intranasally.  You can’t get it prescribed. But from a more regulatory standpoint as far as regulation in your body,  It’s like there are so many things we can take, like bioidentical hormones. They’re amazing. They do amazing things for women, I feel. At the same time, as much as we can self-regulate and produce our hormones, that’s the gold standard to shoot for. We can do that with oxytocin. Like, we don’t need to get a prescription. One of the things, if anybody’s going to Google how to make more oxytocin online right now, we are probably going to get all of these articles that are going to come up that are going to talk about the 22nd hug. The 22nd hug is important because that has been shown in studies to be what the length of hugs is to improve oxytocin levels in the body. A lot of the studies have been done on animals, and we have to say that. But the thing to understand is oftentimes that, and you’ve seen this too, like when we look at research and we look at headlines that show up in the news, they pull this one little piece out. So that’s why online you can see it’s the 22nd hug. But the other thing to think about is that when you go back and look at the study where a lot of these articles have come from and read that, what we find is that in the study, what they did was like 10 minutes of exposure to the other person in a warm way or to the other animal in a warm way.

After 10 minutes of exposure, there was this 22nd hug. What that’s telling us is that there’s more to it than just that hug and the touch. There’s also this feeling that comes with that safety and that interaction. We’re still learning about it. But what I would say from a research perspective is that we want to make sure that we do these longer hugs. If you’ve never done a 22nd hug, like next time you’re hugging somebody, I would encourage you to count to 20 because it feels nice. I like it because I am a little bit obsessed with this particular research fact. Sometimes I’m hugging people, and it’s very common for a hug to feel long when it’s like five, six, or seven seconds. It’s very difficult sometimes, from day to day, to reach that 22nd hug. We want to make sure that oftentimes, like, if we are hugging somebody, it’s like a hug when we see them. We haven’t had those 10 minutes of exposure, or we haven’t had those 10 minutes of interaction. 

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

The connectedness that comes from a conversation or, being present with someone and then the physical connection—this is very interesting because it’s also like what women always say, like, I need to feel connected before I want to be intimate. like women are maybe naturally tuned in to this idea that there’s that emotional bond and intimacy that’s present before that physical connection is going to feel good.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

That’s likely true, and that’s likely particularly true in women because what we see from male bonding, like men, does not have near the number of receptors in those loading docks on the cells for oxytocin to affect them. As women, we have way more capacity for oxytocin to impact our body on a cellular level. But men for men, do have oxytocin receptors. Oxytocin does stuff that has even been shown to improve things like sperm motility.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

It has good benefits for sperm.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

From a bonding perspective, men also secrete a lot of vasopressin, a different hormone, and that’s part of their bonding. Vasopressin is a lot more like this like we did it mentality. It’s like war or sports or coming together for a common goal. My suspicion based upon your question is that the safety that may be needed in some of those initial stages of that warm greeting might be essential for women and oxytocin release as compared to men.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

What did this study compare to men and women, or was it only women? Did it differentiate? Very interesting. Okay, cool. that’s fun. We were following this thread about, like, what are the other ways to support the release of oxytocin in our bodies.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

In addition to things like hugging a lot of people know this, and I say this just because a lot of people know this, but I’m sure some people don’t. Orgasm is a huge way of releasing oxytocin. If you’re somebody who’s listening and you’ve never had an orgasm, do not fret; this is very common, especially for women. There’s nothing wrong. It just means your body hasn’t figured out how to do that yet. There are things we can do, but that is something. 

But even if you’re not having orgasms or if you are either way soft touch, that type of touch, that is almost like that tickle type of touch that’s very gentle. That is amazing for releasing oxytocin. One of the things, too, when it comes to safety, which is, as you said, it’s like oftentimes safety is connected to being in the mood, especially for women around. I feel emotionally safe, so I feel physically safe. All of these things that a soft touch can relax the body can release oxytocin. I can help women especially get into that safety feeling and be able to engage, whether it is just emotionally and intimately or even sexually, in a much more profound way. Then we start getting into that yummy, juicy, vicious cycle. But this also secretes things like oxytocin, which also secretes love and that feeling of being in love. 

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Are there other nutrients or specific things that are essential to making sure that we have the building blocks to make oxytocin?

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

One of the most important things I find from a nutrient perspective is that oxytocin comes down to the receptor. Receptors are just to make sure everybody’s in the same place before we go into this medical jargon. Receptors are these carbon-loading docks on the cells. That’s how I describe them: like hormones, like oxytocin and other things, they need to be able to land on the loading dock to impact the cell positively. It’s very common. Even some people genetically will have oxytocin receptors that are not working, as one of the key things to help with oxytocin utilization is making those receptors work. What I’ve seen is a couple of studies on magnesium and the importance of magnesium for making those receptors healthy. That’s so interesting. As naturopaths, we talk so much about magnesium and stress, and the use of magnesium supports this response. Then here’s another mechanism through which it’s helping: we use magnesium. Those receptors work better, oxytocin works better, and cortisol goes down.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Sometimes it feels like magnesium is the winner for all things hormones. Making sure we have enough magnesium is essential.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Pretty much just people across the board.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Are there any foods that support oxytocin? 

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Not that I’ve ever specifically seen. A common thing people will ask me oftentimes is, what are the aphrodisiac foods? What are the foods that are out there? In general, I tend to find that, like, we can make a case. For example, oysters are an aphrodisiac, and they have zinc, which supports testosterone. So it’s like people are asking about things like aphrodisiac foods and foods that support melatonin and oxytocin, hormones in general. My general feeling on it is that when it comes to foods that are supporting these things—anti-inflammatory, getting all the things that we talk about out, your bad oils, your sugars, you’re on organic food, all that—and then beyond that, just generally making sure you’re eating a wide variety of diet and you’re not eating food you’re reacting to. In my profession, I feel like the bulk of what’s important food-wise comes down to getting the trash out, making sure you’re not inflaming your body, and then making sure you’re eating a wide variety of diets.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

In this context, what are these foods doing, or, like inflammation, how is that impacting the function of this hormone?

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

From that standpoint, I have to say I haven’t seen, from a standpoint of research around, okay, you eat this food, it inflames you, which specifically drives down oxytocin. But from a research perspective, I haven’t seen that. Maybe it exists. I certainly haven’t seen it if it does. But from a theoretical perspective, what we can theorize is that certain things, like, okay, we have more inflammation and inflammatory foods in our body that can do things like drive up cortisol, that can do things like create that extra stress, and then more oxytocin is needed to produce those same results. I would look at it, at least from a theoretical standpoint, a little bit more in that light.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Thank you so much. We talked a little bit about oxytocin in the context of safety. This thread is important because I talk about safety so much. I just assume that people are like, I get it. I get what that is. But can you shed some light on what that emotion or experience is and why it might be so important and helpful on the fertility journey?

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

We are so in alignment on that one. I feel like I could talk about the importance of safety all day long. It’s a substantial thing. Several things are happening. I like to break down safety because when we hear the word safety we can think around, like, “Okay, is my partner abusive?” Safety is so much more than that. Safety can be as simple as saying something to our partner in the morning. They say something back to us with a certain tone because they’re in a rash in a hurry. We interpret it in a way as feeling invalidated or loved. Or whatever. Then we don’t feel safe. That’s one of the first foundational things to talk about with safety. This can be just a simple comment that makes us feel safe. The little things by just men and women not understanding each other, like a woman leaving trash by the door on the way out for her husband to pick out our partner to pick out on the way out, man does not take the trash. He’s hurried. He’s focused on work. It’s not that he doesn’t see the trash it’s that he’s so focused on getting to work. It’s not actionable because of how the brain works. I learned those terms from Allison Armstrong, who’s just wonderful with men and women. I love her. 

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

With that conversation, we’re going to continue talking about that.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

All day long. But, the point that she’ll make in these scenarios that I just see so much in my life and my client’s lives is that it’s so easy to misinterpret these signals because of where blood flows to the brain as men, because of testosterone, and how that impacts the way that certain parts of the brain light up and they see the world versus women. Some of those things where we just mess with each other can create safety issues, that can create a sense of not feeling safe. We don’t realize that because our partner said that thing that we took a certain way or because the trash is taken out, it is translating back into oxytocin, all the way back to being able to be present in the bedroom, all the way into our guard being let down enough to deeply connect, intimately, to have orgasms, to experience pleasure. But all of that can be wrapped up into these tiny little moments that, if we don’t resolve them and we don’t understand how to resolve them, can be pretty impactful.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

I like how you differentiated things like physical safety, which is the most obvious because most women who are trying to have a child proactively are probably in loving relationships. I like that differentiation because this is more subtle than the I have an abusive partner and I don’t feel safe, or I live in an environment where there are gunshots every night and I don’t feel safe. It’s not so much that extreme, but those subtle things that could be happening that lead to this feeling of being unsafe. Is this probably different for every woman? Women need to feel like we just need to observe more and feel I’m aware of what’s happening in my body when I feel that specific emotion. But I’m curious if you have any tangible ways that you experienced that feeling or have experienced it in the past.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

It’s ever so in alignment again, like where I was planning on going next in a line that feeling right where it’s you’re hugging your partner and there’s almost this like retraction feeling or it’s like, I don’t feel like even being in the embrace like that can be a sign of something that just like hits your gut a little bit or hits your throat. It’s oftentimes something I’ve experienced and like tightening, or sometimes it’s even like being pissed off. Sometimes it’s like, they do this thing, and all of a sudden I’m like, pissed especially a good sign to pay attention to as well as if we’re feeling an emotion, and logically, it’s like, trash shouldn’t get taken out. I’m like, I rape like I’m a valid writer. I believe in the statement. Emotions are valid. If we’re feeling like, wow, I am like, mad over this tiny little thing that’s oftentimes like a cue, like where the emotion and the action aren’t in alignment. That’s usually the case; there’s something deeper there. I find that for women so many times, it is that underlying feeling of not feeling safe or appreciated or something like that.

One of the things I work with a lot with my clients is how to communicate in this way. I’ve cited a lot of Alison’s work on nonviolent communication and the Gottman work. And one of the things I’ve found is that when we communicate on this, like using feeling words like NVC, like nonviolent communication teaches, instead of being like, The trash didn’t get taken out or whatever that is, just tuning into, why is this so important to me? Why is this innately a big deal?  Then realize that whatever is coming up oftentimes is our experience. So rather than saying, like, you didn’t take the trash out, this means you don’t love me. It’s more around like I’m a nonviolent. I’m feeling unloved, and I’m somehow connecting that to you not taking out the trash,? Can you tell me why this did not get taken out? It takes that edge off of this is my feeling. You’re not causing me to have this feeling. I’m feeling this. I want to explore this with you so that we can figure out what’s going on here. When we do that, it’s like going away and coming back.

Coming back together is another great way of bonding. That bonding is oxytocin, but it’s also from a masculine standpoint that’s like going to battle together. Like now, we’re on the same team. Now we’re trying to figure out how to navigate this in a way that’s going to make you feel loved and understand why I didn’t do this at this moment, and we’re working together. That vasopressin two, then we’re both getting these surges of these yummy hormones that are also so supportive, not only of stress but also of things we mentioned like progesterone and sperm motility, which you got into fertility.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Let’s wrap it up with this last piece that I want you to speak to, which is the connection between oxytocin and progesterone, which, like, everyone’s like progesterone, the fertility hormone.  How do these things relate?

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

We see that when we increase oxytocin, we increase more of the LH luteinizing hormone, that brain hormone, and that brain hormone, when the luteinizing hormone increases, triggers the release of progesterone. It’s because oxytocin will impact the brain and signal the brain to secrete more luteinizing hormone that we can get that downstream impact on progesterone. It’s very exciting. That’s what’s so cool about this hormone: there are direct mechanisms; we know of the progesterone of sperm, not only sperm maturity or sperm motility. What we mentioned, but also of maturity. It helps the sperm mature, and then it helps them move. We’re getting a great female-male benefit all the way around with this.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

It’s super impactful for both sides. I did not know about the LH connection. I’m starting to make a connection, possibly because we see a lot when women are delayed in ovulation and we can see that they’re not getting that push. LH, this might be the magic. I’m very excited. I like to learn, like, What do you think that’s going to be so exciting?

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

It’s so wonderful because from all the things that we’re talking about as far as treatment, essentially what we’re saying is like embracing in a longer hug, spending more time hugging multiple times throughout the day, and touching each other softly. These are very things that are just going to bring you closer together anyway most of the time.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

It’s like these are the things that are also going to make for a better sexual life, which means I’m going to help your fertility.

This is the second we want to be in.  Thank you so much, Dr. Diane, for being with us today. This was amazing. I love chatting with you. Where can people connect with you? Find you and, like, dive deeper into the work that you do.

Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, LAc

Thanks so much. It’s been such a pleasure. Dr. Aumatma, the easiest thing I would tell people is to just go to libidoquiz.com. That’s going to go through. It’s a cool quiz. The first part is a research-based quiz. Then the second part follows a bunch of questions that I have come up with after years of being in this. I’ve been in practice for almost 15 years now, and in this quiz, what you’re going to get is that it’s going to tell you at the end, like, oh, is it more likely? Is it a libido? Is it sexual, like not having that full balance in your sexuality? Is that coming from things like stress hormones? Is it more like sex hormones? Is it more neurological? Is it more circulatory? It’s going to give you a ton of information, and then relate it to the specifics of your quiz results. That’s the best way to get started because you can tailor the information to what’s probably most relevant to you, and that’s super easy. It’s just www.libidoquiz.com.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Thank you so much for being with us today and for all of you with us. I hope you found this to be an amazing interview. We’ll see you very soon at the next Beyond Infertility Summit interview.