I'm a big believer of understanding your limiting beliefs. The problem is, is no one knows what the fuck their limiting beliefs are. Because what's happened is through their entire life is they've had trauma.

And what happens is you take the worst of your limiting beliefs and you put them in a sarcophagus like Chernobyl and you bury them. That when you go through and do an inventory of limiting beliefs, like before I did the work with Zeller, I had no fucking idea.

Right. Yeah. Like I used to sit there and say, you know, the story, my dad died when I was 13 years old. We were sitting there watching a baseball game.

He dropped dead next to me. Right. And, you know, they revived him and he was on life support for two weeks. And, you know, then we had to pull the plug.

And I spun that to a level of, oh, that was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. right, protecting me from my mom, because my mom was really dysregulated and all that other stuff.

I didn't use that phrase back then. And I made this, oh, because of that, we had to sell the big house. And because of that, we moved to Lake Barrington Shores.

And I had to work in the bathroom. Because of that, I wound up at Ferris State in the PGM program. Because of that, I met my wife Sarah and I had my three wonderful kids.

Like I tried to spin something that was horrible. and really traumatic and try to find a way to make it really good. Because I'd never taken the time to process the pain.

You know, you wide receivers, you're such prima donnas. Yeah. Yeah. We like to have our hands on everything. I mean, you guys are like the high maintenance room in the football team, aren't you?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we've got to look, look the part, look good, have the receiving gloves on. I mean, that's, that's kind of part of it.

Do you wear those when you go out? When you like, you went out to the bars, would you wear receiving gloves? Would you put those on? You know just to let people know you kind of have them hanging out of your pockets You never have to worry about dropping the beer though like when it gets wet during a summer night Those gloves are amazing aren't they they are I mean now I know they're like little suction cups.

I can actually catch a football Because I'm not athletically inclined now that they're coming in like 70 miles an hour. It's like Jesus something You know what I mean?

That's like John Elway was clocked. It's 70 miles an hour Yeah, and that's like nothing compared like it's just the same it's I was just reading something yesterday.

Somebody just threw the baseball 104 miles an hour from the outfield. What the fuck? 104 miles an hour on a rope to the catcher, hit the catcher at 104 miles an hour.

That's insane. Is that insane? That's insane. I mean, insane. I think, you know, you're an athlete. Like, I appreciate sports. You're more of an athlete than I am.

I mean, it's not like golf in the 80s was an athletic sport. I mean, it is today. Yeah. But isn't it amazing, like, how Much more cut these guys are and like how the shape that they're in remember like we would got drinking That was our form of like working out That was the prep, the pre-work.

Yeah, that was the pre-work in golf. We'd be like, let's go get hammered. I'd play better hungover. I think there's so much science-based to it now, and they're just leveraging it.

They're just leveraging every little piece that they can, because the research wasn't there. And just like everything else, everything's accelerated. So it's kind of like the knowledge is there now, and they're applying it.

And you see the difference in variations in all sports and all these games. people are flourishing and now the level of competition's got higher and everything's also gotten closer at the same time, interestingly, right?

Yeah. The thing that fascinates me is I'm 57 years old. I am, and I play a lot of golf, right? And I was in Columbus, played Muirfield with my friend Gunnern.

And we were talking about, I'm like, I am hitting the ball so much further than I've ever hit in my life. Now, I'm not bombing it 300 yards off the tee anymore.

mean, but I'm still flying at 260. Yeah. And if it's firm, it'll release another 20 yards. I mean, I mean, I'm 57 years old. I know. Isn't that insane?

Yeah, it's great. I mean, you know, aren't you glad it's like you're born in this time? Dude, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, especially I mean, call it like since the internet, right?

You know, it's like, I know, right? It's like, how did we learn anything? You know, it's like we were outside throwing a ball. I heard a really cool thing about like, I think it was Gary Vee actually just talking yesterday.

And it's like, you know, our generation talking about how like the younger generations, they're not as social and things like that, right? You know, but the reality is, is that we were outside, you know, by ourselves on a Thursday throwing a ball against the wall, right?

Yeah. where that was our internet that was that was our youtube exactly it's like that's us being like well we got to go outside and enjoy but the reality is is that they're actually way more social than us now they're just using a different framework they're using a different vehicle than we did because we didn't have that there was the the one phone line and before the internet that was it you know remember we got caught waiting remember we got caught waiting 100%. Yep.

Long cord. So you got four boys, right? Four boys. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, everybody, this is Trev Butcheri. So I've known Trevor. I've known Trevor.

How long have I known you? Four years? Yeah. Yeah. It's been four years. Yeah. You're like one of the early clients. Yeah. You met me at my best. I met you at your worst and I was probably not in a very good place because I was, you know, I think we were both, I think it was like a half a step ahead of you.

I'm like, oh fuck. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah, we'll talk about that. Yeah, we'll talk about the great time, though. Yeah. Great. Was it really a great time? You know, are you are you just because because this is the now it is.

OK, OK. Now it is. All right. So we've got to we've got to frame this. Right. So we'll talk about the gyms and everything. But here's my question before I do that.

Was it really the best of times or are you just is that just you being. Ignoring how difficult it was you know I think it's in hindsight you know because because of the fact that when you're in the thick it's very hard to see that you know however that was the biggest growth.

point in my life, you know, especially call it personally, professionally, all the above, because it was one of those pieces where it was like, you're at the bottom of the barrel in many regards, you know, from a business standpoint, from a financial standpoint, from a, you know, relationship standpoint, also from like, you know, an abuse standpoint, I was definitely dealing with some abuse issues, some addiction issues from it.

And, you know, when you're in that hole, you're just like trying to get air, you know what I mean, at the end of the day. But I think the exposure in terms of like what it really exposed to me in terms of where I was lacking and where I thought I was and it's like I thought I was really good at this and then it's like Yeah, you weren't.

Yeah, you're not. So tell everybody what happened at how old are you when it happened? Yeah, so I was 40 going on 41. Yeah, that's about the time it was for me.

Yeah, just a shit show Yeah, and you have these expectations of like I should be here I should be there as you know, it's a heck and a lot of shoulds and and then everything just crashes.

So what happened? Tell everybody what happened. I think this is a great story. So in 2009, I opened up my first gym and we grew very, very quickly and I got up to four gyms.

We're doing Excellent. We were doing very very well. We were pulling in about like a million bottom line 993 to be exact That's what the tax return says But but then I had this idea where I was like, oh, I'm unstoppable, you know in a sense and I'm like I'm gonna go from four to eight in a year I'm just gonna do that, you know, and you were how old when you decide you're gonna go from four to eight.

I was 39 Yep, 39, you know, so so did that How did you raise money? What did you do? No, I had a bunch of money. I had a bunch of money, and then I actually did get a loan from a bank, a pretty hefty loan of, I want to say it was about $600,000 or something from a bank.

When you're doing a million bottom line, that seems like nothing. When it drives up, it's like, what the fuck was I doing? Yeah, 100%, man. 100%. We expanded, and we opened these four locations.

And I did not market well. I didn't prepare well at all. And looking back, it's like, oh, buddy, what did you do? You know what I mean? What did you do?

And we ended up getting to a point where all of our profits from our good four locations were going into basically eating away at the ones that were just opened up, that were just tanking horribly because I failed to prepare, essentially, at the end of the day.

And the cool thing is it definitely made me go back to work, you know, big time in terms of like, okay, I got to reset everything and I got to do this right.

And it was kind of the beginning of like my learning process. We got to a point where it was January right before COVID and we started actually turning.

We started actually, you know, things started going up and going up and February was looking good too. And the beginning of March was looking very, very good.

And then of course COVID. March 13th, yeah. Exactly. And essentially at the end of the day, my bank was drained. All my funds were drained. The bank loan was drained.

You know what I mean? But we had turned the corner. So I got to leave with that. And I think that was, I'm really grateful for that, you know, because it was kind of like, it was working, you know, I could leave with that at least, you know what I mean?

Yeah, and everybody, so everybody knows you're in New York and New York had some of the most draconian shutdown, like how long were gyms shut down? Oh my gosh, we were shut down for at least eight months.

Are you kidding me? Yeah, it was eight months. Yeah, because we also had to do we were shut down the facilities first. And then we had permission, we found a loophole to where we could actually run the workouts outside.

So we actually literally bought like circus tents. I remember this that has something happened in North Carolina, people were setting up tents. Yeah, you could go right across the border into South Carolina, you could work out like you get like 100%. Yeah, that was a great thing.

Yeah, in North Carolina, they were sticking tents. Great time to be in the tent business. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it really was. It really was. We were doing that whole thing and still not making money, you know, and you're just like, what am I doing here?

So it was it was a huge. So you still had to pay your mortgages, your rents? Yeah, absolutely. What do you do with all your staff? Do you lay them all off?

At the point where COVID hit, yes, eventually we did. We actually laid them off to begin with and then we started bringing people on as we're like, let's try to find these loopholes and so on and so forth.

So we were kind of like, they were temporarily laid off and then we brought them back on and then we temporarily laid off again and it was just, it was a mess.

And then you got the PPE funds. Yep, got those. Which, of course, then you still have to pay those back. Yep, exactly. And drilled through those. That's the thing that people don't realize.

They're like, oh, I got free money from the government. I'm like, you didn't get free money from the government. They're going to ask you for that money back in five years.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. And it was really interesting, too. And this is something I've worked a lot on. Because during that time, there were a lot of things in hindsight that I would do differently now.

And then I'm not like, again, everything happens for a reason. Would you have pushed as hard? Would you have pushed as hard as you did? Because I know that 40 year old.

Oh yeah. I definitely would have. It's just I think I would have done it smarter. Like in what way? More calm. You know what I mean? More calm. You know, because I don't think I had the certainty of what was good.

You know what it was? I didn't realize that I could fail. You know what I mean? Which, you know, the ignorance of that, because it was just, we started from the ground, things started happening well.

We started going up, started going up, up, and I never really got like a cycle where it actually came back on me. That just hadn't happened. So it's almost like I was like, I must be really good at this.

I must be really good at this. What's wrong with everyone else? Can't you figure it out? This is so simple. Yeah, really. So there were a lot of things when it crashed that I was very embarrassed you know say personally and there were a lot of things going on and it's like you know people have their own vantage points but there was a lot of like accusations that i was like basically pocketing all these people's money and just like you know stealing it and i was yeah i had that one too that yeah i did not handle that well you know what i mean because i think at that particular point i was really uh i didn't realize how much i actually depended upon people's approval you know so to speak Which is, by the way, probably the reason why you were so successful.

Maybe, yeah. Isn't that an interesting, have you thought about that? Like with your work with Zeller, we'll talk about that. I could absolutely see that, yes.

Because I know for me it was. Like everything that I did was so that I could get approval. Coaching business, everything was designed to show how smart I was.

And you're the youngest, right? I'm the mid. Oh, you're the mid. Yeah, so I'm the youngest of six. You got how many in your brothers and sisters? So I have two brothers, basically one older, one younger.

Okay, yeah, so you're in the middle of three. Yeah, but but you're actually now that you're saying that it 100% was because I always had that label of myself that I'm not good enough.

So it was always out to prove, you know, whether to be myself or others. And for those of you that can't see Trevor standing up, he's like six, four, what's your body fat, like 12%? Yeah, about like 12, 13. 12, 13%. Yeah.

Yeah. How old? 13 years. How old are you? 46. 46. Yeah. Okay, we should all. Yeah. But always trying to prove something, right? 100%, man. 100%. And that's kind of like I was talking about before is like, I think my level of compassion for others was, much lower because it was almost kind of like in my head, in my head, you know what I mean, which again, looking back, like you said, it worked, you know, it was, it was, I guess, a strategy to, to propel things, but it's kind of like, especially when things crash, it definitely made me take a look at like where I was heading, you know, so when we were talking about, was it really a bad thing?

Was it a good thing? gave me the opportunity to actually look at stuff real, real. You know what I mean? How hard was that? Oh, it was just brutal. It was brutal.

Still is, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Well, you know, now, again, looking back, I'm like, that, like, I'm grateful for that because, well, first of all, I'm grateful because it was the opportunity where I could have been like, and I did think about this a lot, of like, maybe I should just hang up the gloves and get a job and so on and so forth.

So it really gave me the opportunity to look at that, number one, and I was like, I can't. I literally can't. I am not a good employee. You're a horrible employee.

Horrible, absolutely. You're about as bad as me. Yeah, 100%. And I was just like, long run, that will not work. I will go insane, I will become depressed, and I will probably end up jumping off a bridge.

Legit. Let's play this out, right? You know, but it was beautiful because it definitely made me look at all those components of like, yeah, I kind of I kind of was ahead of myself bigger than my britches, you know, maybe, you know, not treating people well.

And it definitely made me look at that stuff and be like, OK, You know, this had to happen, you know, that smack in the face, even though, and in the moment, you know, it's more like, oh, what was me?

What was me? But then there's those moments of like, yeah, this is good. This is good, you know, because it's almost, the landing point for me was like, okay.

you know, I'm not gonna die. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna die if everything goes away, because it was literally walking the tightrope of, are we gonna lose the house?

Everything that we've worked for, all this stuff, everything. And it was kind of like, I actually had peace when I finally said, so what? So we move in with my parents or my parents-in-law.

And I was great with that. At that point, not great with that, but I was like, okay, you know, if that's the worst thing that's gonna happen, then, Okay.

Yeah, Sarah's parents moved in with us. Wow. Because they were moving down to North Carolina from Michigan and they were going through their own trial and tribulation.

And it was a miracle for us to hang out of the house. I was six months behind. Yeah. And nine months behind on the second. Wow. And like, you know, weekend.

hand of God came through and like literally Providence like re-reeled everything and it's a long story. Well, I won't go into it, but yeah, but like served left and right.

Oh my God. Yeah. Oh God. Wasn't that the worst? I would say I probably was served about 12 times. Yeah. Like, and my wife would answer the door and she'd get it and she knew what it was because we had already seen for already, you know what I mean?

And it's like, is she a highly sensitive person? And does she, does she really absorb that kind of stuff? Sarah did. She does. Sarah did. Yeah. Oh my God.

You know what's fascinating is, and we'll talk about the work with Zeller, what I've realized is a lot of guys like you and I, because you and I are real similar, right?

You're just like a foot taller. You got better hair. So you know what's interesting is it's like we're married to these highly sensitive women and something, I think it's something about our protector in us that we like to protect and provide.

You ever think about that? Oh, all the time. Yeah, all the time. That's my favorite thing. Isn't it? Yeah, same thing. I love taking care of people. Me too.

Me too. You know what I mean? Because it and I think it really from a selfish standpoint, it makes me feel good about myself that I'm able to do that.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's an ego trip in it. Yeah, there is. There is. But it's also like that purpose, you know, so to speak of like, OK, I'm doing my part, you know, because that was something my wife and I and she's my rock.

It was always like we get Laura, right? Yeah. OK. we'd get served these things and she's like, yeah, you know, here's another one. It wasn't like, oh my God, are we gonna lose it?

It was, which I needed more than ever because I was thinking, oh my God, are we gonna lose it? You know what I mean? So she was more like, okay, like I know you'll figure it out, you know, type thing.

And I'm just like, I will. Like, really? You know what I mean? Because it certainly doesn't feel like it. You know, but without that man, whoo. Yeah, that was, that was, that was very, very tough.

But you know, it was the whole agreement that, not agreement, I will say that when she was pregnant with our first, I was teaching full-time, and I came to her about a couple weeks after we found this out, and we were engaged at the time, which I have to say, I actually proposed to her about two weeks before we found out we were pregnant.

So my timing was very, very impeccable, you know, so it didn't affect the story, right? But it was like, hey, you know, I think that I'm gonna quit my job and start these gyms.

And she was like, yeah, that makes sense. And I was like, really? You know what I mean? sure like can I do that you know I mean so that's a really great way to explain her you know what I mean and it was the same thing like when we also had the conversation where when she was pregnant and she she's actually um has her master's in English English education so she was going to do that and she's like what would you think about me like staying home with the kids you know and I was like hadn't really thought about it, but I was like, that would be awesome.

You know what I mean? It would be just awesome. Is that what you want to do? And she's like, I would love to do that. And I think that was a huge piece where I was like, well, I would love to provide.

And I would love to do this. And I know that if you had the kids, that would take a lot off my chest and off my heart to be like, OK, they're with you.

So I'm good. I can just give me permission to go and do my thing. And when the crash circling back to that happened, it was like, oh my God, like I did not pull my weight.

Like I am not pulling my weight right now. And that was gut wrenching. That was the worst thing I think. Yeah. How did you deal with it? How'd you deal with that bruise to the ego?

A lot of weed. I was just going to say. Yeah. Me was bourbon. I learned it. I started watching Mad Men and I discovered Manhattans in old fashions. And I was like, that sounds like a really good idea.

Let me get hammered every night. Yeah, right. I know. That did not work out well. Yeah, it didn't. God. A lot of weed. Yeah, yeah, really, you know, a lot of weed and a lot of whiteboarding, you know what I mean?

So was it weed then whiteboarding? Both. Yeah, at the same time smoking? Yeah, 100%. And most of those ideas were pretty much shit, right? Yeah, they were.

They definitely were. That's okay. It's the same way with any whiteboarding. It has nothing to do with the weed. 100%. 100%. But it was like, I was at work and I convinced myself that that's what I needed to get me through, you know, so to speak and make it fun and not just cry.

You know what I mean? At the point. And I guess it served its purpose, you know, until it didn't. You know what I mean? Because then it just exacerbated and exacerbated like any, like any type of, you know, thing that we abuse does.

You know what I mean? Anything that's addictive? Yeah, 100%, 100%. But that's, that was how I was dealing with it at the time. And kind of just in my office at home spinning around, looking at whiteboards, listening to music, trying to like, I guess, motivational music to, to just kind of drive me through and ideate.

And I mean, I had like seven businesses going at one time as I was trying, you know, like just dipping my foot into different things. Maybe I'll go here, maybe I'll go there.

Oh my God. You know, just trying to figure all these things out and just spinning, you know, just completely spinning, you know, around. What would you do differently?

Like, so you've been through that. I have my answer, but I wanna hear yours. Cause like, okay, so you just set the kind of the context for people. You start this business, it's your first one.

It's pretty successful. You're making a really good money, right? You're able to provide for Laura to stay home. You guys keep pumping out kids. get the lake house, right?

Everything is good, right? And then through circumstances outside of your control, because you were getting the business turned around, you might've been able to make it work.

Or not, or it might've like made it halfway back, which is the worst, right? You'd rather have it be dead. And then all of a sudden you're 40, you're seeing all your other friends having all the success, you can barely get to borrow money from your parents, probably.

Right? I didn't. That was actually one thing I promised myself I wouldn't. Yeah, I did. Unless I had to, you know what I mean? And it was, but I would have.

Yeah. You know what I mean? I absolutely would have done whatever. Yeah, I didn't borrow from my mom. I would not ask my mom for money. I wasn't too proud, to put it that way.

Yeah. Well, so my thing is, is did you go through, did you, what was that 24 month, 36 month period where things just, you couldn't get anything to work?

What was it like for you? It was absolute hell, I would say. It was a lot of negative self-talk. It was a lot of, like you said, comparing, you know? Comparing to others.

It's horrible. That's the worst thing you can do is compare yourself to everybody else. Very much, very much. And I think a big thing that you had asked, and I never really thought about that, it's like, what would I do different?

Which is interesting, because why wouldn't I think about that? I think what I hadn't done is I hadn't recognized like the skill sets that I did have. It was more the recognition of all the things that I didn't at that point because I didn't know what to do.

You know what I mean? I think that was the big thing is like I didn't know what to do. So I think in terms of what I was doing, is I was just trying, and I was trying, and I was studying.

Trying anything. Yes, exactly, and dipping my toes. And I would also say, like, compiling the skills that I had is like, well, what have I learned? Oh, I learned this, so I could potentially try this with that.

I could learn that with it. I know how to acquire patience. I know how to do this. I know how to market. You know what I mean? So it was picking up those pieces, but not giving myself credit for them at the same time.

It was like, but you still suck at it. So, but whatever, give it a whirl. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So I think it was just a lot of spinning, testing, testing of ideas and of things, and just surviving, I think is the best way to say it.

I was just trying to breathe. I was really just trying to breathe. But I will say that my presence with my family was not good at all, you know what I mean?

My patience was not good at all. My relationship with my wife was absolutely I would say I was ashamed. I was definitely ashamed. Well, shame's a big deal, especially for guys like you and I.

Yeah. Yeah. I was looking her in the eyes. I could barely do it, because it was almost just like, I'm not worthy. You know what I mean? It really was that.

It really was that. It was like, I failed you. I need to go into this room and figure this out so I have the ability to then look at you in the eyes again, essentially.

I did not do my part. So it was a lot of that, rhythmically. You know what I mean? That became my circadian rhythm, essentially. You know what's interesting is, obviously I've spent my life coaching people, never intended to become a coach.

Like 25 years ago, I kind of fell into it as a way to supplement income. And here's the interesting thing. So I study, this is the great thing about Perspective at 57. So I study a lot of timelines now, right?

Like there are some very specific timelines. There is there's usually a timeline starting at about 28 in the 28 to 30 phase where people shed their own skin.

They go through a metamorphosis. It's usually a three to four year process like you look at the data and you kind of look at all this now. For me, I was having kids and moving around the country, but I moved like every year because I was getting a different job.

That was kind of part of my process. Astrologically, they'd call it a Saturn return, I guess is what they call it. There's another phase that happens.

And when you turn 50, when you move to like this sometime around 50, you move into the kind of like this elder statesman or stateswoman phase, or not elder, but like you move to like You're at this level where you now have perspective of looking back.

And then there's another one that generally hits around 65 to 67 where we become like an elder states person. But here's what's interesting. Whether that Saturn return is delayed from 28 to 30 or whether it happens at 40, it's three years at a minimum.

Interesting. And I don't have empirical data on this. This is just from working with literally thousands and thousands of business owners across the globe.

because they generally come to you when you're like, you came to me at that phase, right? I did. Nobody ever comes to me when they're doing great. Yeah.

Well, Tracy Gabbin did, and then we got him greater, because that's just Tracy, right? He's just the way he is. Absolutely. Can't sit still. Absolutely.

But it's interesting is people basically fall in a couple of different categories in this, and you have the people that as well as me, right? Then you have the people that are the complete other thing is, isn't this great?

You're probably were more of the finding a way to make this great when you like to find the benefit in it. Yeah, that's that's what I was desperately trying to get to.

Yeah, so when you say desperately, what does that look like? It just means like 24 7 it's on my mind, you know of how to make good out of this Yeah, of how to of how to get to make gold out of this pile of shit 100% Yeah, it's like get through get through get through get to the other side 100% that you know what I mean?

And and I don't even know if there was self-belief in that I would say that there probably wasn't but you know, I had mentioned to you before I talked about like, you know should I hang the gloves up?

And when I realized it just wasn't an option, I was like, well, then there's only one option. So we need to get to the other side. So let's just do the work.

You know what I mean? So it was on the mind from wake to, I would say probably in my dreams as well. You know what I mean? 100%. And cold sweats and you can't sleep, so you get up and you're like, I need to do something.

So find my safe place in the office working. And you know what I mean? So it was just 24-7. It was what it was like. but with the intention of gotta get to the other side, you know what I mean?

Was it like a speed of how fast you wanted to get to the other side or was it just, what do you say get to the other side? What is that? Yeah, it was essentially relieve the pain, you know, so to speak.

Okay. And I thought- By any means necessary, money, drugs. Yeah, well, yes. And that like called the drugs were like the in between, you know, to relieve the pain during at the end of the day.

But it really came down to like, I got to get these finances right. You know what I mean? So that's what I meant by the other side of like, get to the point where you're not going to lose your house.

you know, like number one, right? You know, so find something that is actually, you can monetize, make some money with, so that you can actually get to the other side, which I thought was gonna relieve the emotions, and I thought I was gonna be like, okay, I'm back to where I was, right?

I'm good now, and now I can, I believe in myself again, and let's go, you know what I mean, type deal. Wasn't really that, you know what I mean, it really wasn't that.

Um, but, but it was, that was what I meant by the other side of just like, I need to break through and get something that's actually going to work again.

So I can, because this is my only option, you know, so trying to turn it into a good thing, you know, but I don't think that was internally what was going on.

I don't really, I didn't realize I was doing that. I guess you'd say this at the same time, because I think I was too. I definitely had woe is me in there.

You know what I'm saying? 100%. Why this happened to me, you know, type thing. And the reality was like, well, you made your bed. You know what I mean?

You made your bed. I mean, like, adding on four locations, was that the best? Like, no. You know what I mean? But the reality is, if you had those four locations or not, COVID still would have sucked.

True. Absolutely true. You probably wouldn't have made it anyway. No. No. And gratefully, it was a good time to get out of the industry. And I saw that.

I definitely saw that. But it didn't make it easier because it was kind of like, OK, well, now you're forced. And I saw that beforehand. And in fact, I knew in 2018, I hit a point where I was like, should I sell right now?

feels like I should sell right now because the market is shifting, you know what I mean? But instead I decided to bring out a business partner, you know, who you know, Jeff, right?

And I think I mentioned that to you. But that was kind of, you know, but in hindsight I was like, that's what that felt like, okay. I got the feeling right now, you know?

So I think it was a lot of also like, ah, you didn't, you shoulda here because you're right, the market was changing. And so all these things- I did the same thing in real estate.

I was like, it was 2006, 2007. And I'm looking at the case, whatever the case, something index. And I'm like, this is fucked up. The affordability index is too stretched.

We gotta get out. And I didn't. And cause you don't, you don't have, you know, you don't have, You don't have the understanding of the voice inside of you.

That's the thing is, so we've done a lot of work in the company. We use human design. You should check this out. It's astrologically based, okay? And you go and you put in your date of birth, the time you're born and where you're born, right?

And it gives you this, right? Yeah, yeah. And so we've done it for our doctors. You know, doctors are like, oh, I thought this was bullshit. There's no science based on this shit.

And then they're like, Holy fuck. This is like me. I'm like, yeah, so then let's run it through like we have these questions I'll send it to you nine psychological questions profile.

Great. And so here's the thing is, I used to make really, really fast in the moment decisions. And what was interesting is, I would be at Kennedy's stuff.

And he'd always talk about speed, speed, speed, right? Yes. And I understand why he was saying that because he wanted people to go implement, right? He was saying, Oh, that's the best thing is speed, you know, speed implementation.

That's what separates. So I'm like, Okay, Dan says that's what I'm supposed to do. So I would go do things really, really fast. And I would have some initial success and I would get a lot of accolades, but then they would collapse because I hadn't really thought through everything.

Well, my human design is I'm actually a person that's supposed to take my time in making decisions and either have a yes or a no. And I was going against it.

And like, my point is, is like, when you understand how you're made, because like you're a miracle, right? When that sperm crosses the barrier into the egg.

mean, think about it. You're one of like, what is there a million sperm that are ejaculated? I want to say billions, billions, whatever it is. Yeah, listen to the two non medical guys talking.

Who just happen to be in medicine. Everyone's shaking. Yeah, the some doctors listening to these dumb fucks. Why am I listening to these people? For the record, people do not ever go to us for medical care.

Yes. Noted noted you can go to try to lose inches, but that's about it. Yeah No, you got doctors on staff. So but yeah, like you the thing is is we I'm convinced You know how Tony Robbins talks about limiting beliefs.

Yes, okay, and I'm a big believer of understanding your limiting beliefs The problem is is no one knows what the fuck their limiting beliefs are because what's happened is through their entire life is they've had trauma, you know and And what happens is you take the worst of your limiting beliefs and you put them in a sarcophagus like Chernobyl and you bury them.

That when you go through and do an inventory of limiting beliefs, like before I did the work with Zeller, I had no fucking idea, right? Like I used to sit there and say, you know the story, my dad died when I was 13 years old.

We were sitting there watching a baseball game. He dropped dead next to me, right? And they revived him and he was on life support for two weeks and then we had to pull the plug.

And I spun that to a level of, oh, that was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. Right? Protecting me from my mom, because my mom was really dysregulated and all that other stuff.

I didn't use that phrase back then. And I made this, oh, because of that, we had to sell the big house. And because of that, we moved to Lake Barrington Shores.

And I had to work in the back room. And because of that, I wound up at Ferris State in the PGM program. And because of that, I met my wife Sarah. And I had my three wonderful kids.

Like, I tried to spin something that was horrible and really traumatic and try to find a way to make it really good. Because I'd never taken the time to process the pain.

And when you talk about you have to move through it, one thing I would tell my younger self is do not rush through that pain because that pain is a gift.

It's a gift of like coarse sandpaper rubbing off the really hard edges that need to get sanded down, right? Like the thing I would tell someone to listen to this, if you're going through some shit right now, do not rush it.

Like do not pick up the pace when going through hell, like sit in hell, right? Yeah, yeah, I think I think where I'm trying to get to with that, because I totally agree with you on that, you know, is like, can you actually have the power to see it for what it is?

You know what I mean? And I think that's, you know, like, when the shit happens, can you be like, Okay, here it is. You know what I mean? Here it is. Let's, let's, let's milk this.

Let's enjoy this, you know, and that's where I, that's where I'm trying to develop to, as opposed to just going into that old cycle. Yeah, the old cycle of you're very positive guy.

This is great, right? Yeah, tough to do. very tough to do. What if it's great and shitty at the same time? And it is. What if you gave equal energy to the shit and the greatness of it?

Yeah, and according to universal law, it is. There's a law called the law of polarity, right? And it's basically just two sides of the same thing. When you talk about temperature, there's hot and there's cold.

It's both because something that we actually deem as hot, oh, it's 90 degrees outside. Okay, well, is it actually hot when you compare it to the sun? Do you know what I mean?

So it's all just different variations and levels of the same thing, light and dark. They're just two of the same exact things. So both sides of the poles do exist.

And that's actually been proven through these laws. So it is shitty. And it also is good. those situations, like, again, like we were talking about the whole crash, it's like there were so many benefits from that, and so many things that were exposed, you know, to me during that time, for example, but it also then came down to the choice of like, Okay, well, what kind of person are you?

What are you going to do with that? You know, are you going to do something with it? Or are you just going to succumb, roll over, and that's going to be your story?

And I think that's what most people do. Most people roll like I, you and I talk a lot, right? Yeah, like, I just take my resiliency for granted. Right?

Don't you? Don't you with you? Yeah, almost to the point where I won't even label myself as that. Yeah, it's almost like it's almost like it's a cop. It's like a cop out if I call myself resilient.

Yeah. Like this is just what you're supposed to fucking do. Right? Right. Right. Like, like, um, uh, you know, this woman I'm seeing, she'll talk to me about white privilege, and I get pissed off about it.

I'm like, you don't know what I've fucking been through. Like, I mean, I get it exists, right? Like, I understand that people get racially profiled. Like, I understand that systematically, but like, this is just what I do.

I just get back up. This is just what I do, you know? That's it. That's it. It's all I know how to do, quite frankly. Yeah. Where do you think that comes from?

Is it being the middle kid and just getting the shit kicked out? Honestly, I really think it stems from there. You think it's just inside of you? You think it's just one of the traits he gave you?

I do. Now, I do. You know what I mean? Because I think another thing when you were talking about your work with Zeller, I have also had the opportunity to work with him as well.

And I always had this thing, you know, literally until just very recently that it was, I'm not good enough. You know, that was really my label, you know, because there were several pieces of that and the story goes long, right?

You know, but it was always like, I was the one getting in trouble. You know what I mean? At home, I was the one not doing well in school or my older brother.

Did you go to Catholic school? No. Okay, damn it. Public school. Oh, shit, then stories would be really good. Yeah. Yeah, but uh, but he was always like the smart one and brilliant musician and all these type of things, which is great, you know, fantastic.

Um, and then my younger brother would, would kind of be like, uh, he would listen, he would listen and he'd kind of follow what my parents said, but it was always like, I don't listen.

And I wasn't the star of this or star of that. And I was the troublemaker essentially. And I was, you know, in, in with child psychiatrists and all these types of things.

Yeah, because you wouldn't sit still. Yeah, 100%. And I was like, well, this must mean I'm not good enough because people are trying to fix me, right?

Yeah. But what I recently discovered, it was like, OK. The reality was, and again, it's all about our identity and how we identify ourselves. So that was one of those things you talked about.

It was buried. It was Chernobyl. It was buried in me. And I didn't even know it, those particular words. I kind of did, but I didn't know what it was doing.

And essentially, I had the opportunity to redefine it, and I redefined it as different. And that was a huge, that was the biggest shift for me, which sounds so simplistic, but it was like, wait a second, wait a second.

So I'm different, which means that I was trying to be put into a box that, say, people who aren't different are put into. I was supposed to follow the rules.

I was supposed to do school when I really just didn't care about it. It wasn't that I wasn't capable. I was just like, this is just zero interest to me.

But if I go on that, that tangent over there, something I'm really into, I will murder it. You know what I mean? But I wasn't really recognizing that.

And then I recognized, I was like, okay, well, so for the goals that the person I wanna be, right? You know, going back to like, you know, God, you know, put that in me, so to speak.

It's like, okay, well, if fitting in the box is ordinary, like I always would have wanted to be extraordinary, you know, and extraordinary is different.

And different is necessary for the goals that I have, that I want to be. So it's like, if I were anything but different, it wouldn't be possible. So then it was just like, Oh man, that was my shift.

Isn't that great? I was just like, thank you. Isn't that like, how much more free do you feel? And even now I'm just, I have like goosebumps because it's like, yeah, because it's real, you know, it's one of those things that's like really hit.

Oh, I feel so much more free. And I think that's like I mentioned to you, it's like, that is why I'm now able to be like, I don't have to compete. You know what I mean?

I just do because that's just how I'm wired. You're wired to do things really well. There's a difference between doing something excellent and winning ping pong if you've never played ping pong before.

Yes, absolutely. And that's allowed me to have a different level of empathy and care and love and nurturing for other people who are also going through their own shit.

Of course, it sounds cliche, but we don't know. But it's almost like me comparing myself as, oh, I'm further ahead. Like that was doing nothing for anyone else.

And it really wasn't doing anything for me either because I was never going to be able to fill my own bucket because I had the wrong definition of what I was.

I was never going to be able to fulfill, you're not good enough. And I already proved that because of even what I had done, let's just say, Even building my family, you know what I mean?

I never would have thought that at 14, I would have had this amazing wife and these amazing kids, but it wasn't enough. It just wasn't enough. Well, the problem with having that open ego is it never gets full.

True that. Right? Absolutely. And by all measure, $993,000 a profit. I mean, how many more years of that would you really have needed, right? And it was ego that drove you to open up, okay, now we're going to go big, because we put this emphasis of the bigger the company and the more revenue that we make, the bigger deal we are, right?

Look at how awesome I am. The problem is is that that's why I was doing it. I know. Right. Yeah. That's right. Look, that's why I did the shit I did too.

Right. And you never you if you're operating from that place, that bucket never gets full because either the bucket size changes or you get another bucket that you want to fill up.

Yeah. And then you don't pay attention to the other bucket. So. And I would speculate that once that continues to happen, you become more miserable because what you thought was going to actually fulfill that bucket didn't.

And then you're like, well, now what? Now where do I go? You know what I mean? And you hear people talk about this. You hear people talk about, oh, money doesn't resolve this and doesn't make things better.

It's nice to have. 100%. It's way better than having the sheriff knock on your door. 100%. I'll take that any day. But I think that was where I was at personally was like, OK, nowhere I want to go and where my goals are right now.

I had the inkling of that where I started believing that. And I was like, well, I got to really start working on myself. all I'm gonna do is just repeat the same cycle that I have.

And I don't want to let those things happen again and let my ego kind of take control and get lost in the whole thing again. You know what I mean? Like I did before.

So it's like, I've really got to take a different perspective because I'm not a strong enough leader to do what I want to do yet. I'm just not, you know what I mean?

So that was kind of like where, I think we talked about this too. It's like, I was looking for personal development, right? And cause I've been into that.

I've studied under so many people and it's just amazing. I love it. and it's empowered me in many, many senses. You know, and I was looking for like mastermind groups and all these different things, but where I'm at right now is like, oh my gosh, all I know that it's gonna do is it's going to actually just take away from my focus.

It's gonna give me other great ideas that other people are doing or whatever, and I'm gonna have FOMO or- Well, cause you're in a room, those mastermind groups, the younger mastermind groups, the smaller ones are the ones that we were in.

Those groups are full of people trying to fill their ego. Yes. Right? I can totally see that. Can't you see that now? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I would have been one of them.

I'm like, I'm out, right? I don't, and I'm not, look, I run mastermind groups. Like there is a time and a place. Sure. But like the rooms I'm looking for now are the people that don't have an ego.

That are doing, like what we're doing now at Mavericks is really about, I know we make money, right? Like I'm not. But in the past I was doing it so I could buy the 7,000 square foot house.

So I could, hey, look at me, I'm flying private. Hey, look at me that I did this. Now it's like, okay, so I know where the next house is going to be. I know where I'm going to buy it.

I know where I want it to be. I know what club I want to be a member of. But that's not defining me. I was just thinking the exact same thing, right? Like the group I'm in, it's not about, oh, I'm in this mastermind group.

I travel 200 days a year and do what I do because this is what I'm made to do. This is what God made me to do. I'm good at being on the road. I know it sounds weird.

I don't have any encumbrances back home anymore. But yeah. That's so interesting. And by the way, folks, we will talk about Trevor's clinic, the Stay Young Center and that journey.

But I want to because I want to let's talk about Zeller. Yeah. Let's talk about that stuff. So. So for those of you that don't know Mike Zeller, Mike Zeller Consulting, he takes people on psychedelic journeys.

I met him November 22nd, 2024. Met him actually in October at a Las Vegas event, a mastermind that it was funny. Ateeba. Shout out to Ateeba. Ateeba was like, I got you into my mastermind group.

And it's in Vegas. I'd already been in Vegas like 16 times. And I'd been on the road basically since middle of August. And this was at the end of October.

And I booked my flights in my hotel like two days prior, because I didn't want to disappoint Atiba, because I pulled some strings for me to be there. And I met Kat Merritt, who's my chief marketing officer, chief revenue officer.

And then I also met Mike Seller. And my life changed on November 22. And what it is is you do psychedelic journeys. and we'll leave it at that. We won't go in, let's Mike's, you know, the stuff.

I had been microdosing for quite some time to help with stress and anxiety, help me get off Alexa Pro, because that just made me feel like shit. And one of my doctors was like, hey man, you look a little stressed out.

You ever do mushrooms? Like, really? Yeah, it was Shakhtar. Oh yeah. Remember? Hey man. 100%. You didn't recognize the voice? Hey man. Oh yeah. We were at Mastermind.

That sounded too familiar. I know. Hey man. See here? Yeah. And like, so, okay, so that kind of, and then I started reading the studies and listening to Huberman and all of this.

I'm like, fuck, this shit's really good. So I went- So misunderstood. So misunderstood and chastised in a way, just societally, right? It's a societal construct.

You know what I mean? So yeah, you go see, and I'll get in contact and we'll talk about you. So you go see Zeller and he takes you through this journey.

Yeah. What was it like for you? Because your frame reference, you were in a rock and roll band, right? Yeah. So you lived that life. Yeah. Yeah. So you and you were smoking weed.

I was a wannabe. Yeah. You were smoking weed. I was. You'd done mushrooms before. Yeah, I had. I had. And like, I'm sure you'd done like other recreational stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, had you done Molly and stuff? No, I had done like ecstasy once. Which is Molly. Okay. Yeah, it's a DMA. Yeah, it's like a different version of it.

Yeah, no. Street names. I do that once and then just mushrooms a couple times and then weed. That's pretty much all I've really done. I stopped drinking a long time ago because I was too good at it.

You know what I mean? I got really good at it. I barely drink anymore. And I didn't even like the taste. I felt like shit that I'm like, yeah, like what am I doing?

It burns going down and it hurts coming out. 100%. Yeah. You know, and I think that really leads into what I was saying before, is like, I was looking for personal development, but I knew I didn't want to get into a room where I was going to get more ideas that's going to scatter my focus, because that was a huge thing for me.

The woman in the red dress has been a big thing for me. They don't wear the white dress, don't they? Oh, they do. There's nothing better than a woman in a red dress.

I can do that. Oh my gosh, I should do that. And now you're distracted from your main thing, and now nothing is the main thing, and that has been a big story for me.

Hence why I had seven businesses on a whiteboard, right? It's like, choose one, right? You know what I mean? Finally did. but then you know god bless you and so grateful for you for introducing zeller you know to me you know of all things i mean shit going back to day one when i did this i said i can't i created a hit list in my head i'm like i'm sin and trevor yeah and but like i think what i learned text or something i can't even remember we well you know we like we drop in and out right you've been a client for years but You know, and I went through my own shit starting in January.

Right. You told me about it. Yeah. And it's not like I'm advertising that I left my wife in January. Right. Like this is sudden. No, I'm done. Yeah. Like, you know, my clients newer.

Right. Like, it's not like it's it's not like I was kind of like, hey, everybody, guess what I just did. Yeah. Yeah, sure. I just ended my two-year marriage and moved to Scottsdale.

100%. Yeah, that's not exactly something that, you know, you advertise. It wasn't necessarily hiding it. But like, yeah, so then I was like, I remember going through this.

I'm like, oh, I'm sending Trevor. He's going to fucking love this. Yeah. And when you told me it was kind of just like something hit, I was like, well, that's different, you know, and that is personal development.

And yeah, I definitely know I have stuff that I have not dealt with. So where did it hit you? Where did you feel it? Cause I remember we were on the phone.

You're like, yeah, man, I'm doing this. I hit it. I hit it. It hit me more kind of in my, in my stomach because, cause I was more like intimidated by it.

I remember I was saying- Is that where you feel decisions is your stomach? That's where I feel fear is in my stomach. Okay, so that's actually where you probably make decisions.

It's probably your sacral. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you go through this human design, it's probably your sacral or solar plexus, one of the two. Interesting, yeah.

So that fear is actually masking your ability to feel how you actually make decisions. Correct, I totally see that. Because what it's done is you've created this thing, your body is trying to protect you from actually being the person that you're supposed to be because they see it as dangerous.

Interesting. So that's the work I've done with Zeller. So you go see Zeller. Yeah, yeah. And actually, interestingly, you told me and I was like, that's really interesting, man.

And then, and then you actually put us in contact together in a group text. And I was kind of like, I don't know. But then, you know, after talking to him on the phone, I was like, Okay, it was just one of those things.

I wasn't even certain of doing before I knew it. I was signing up I was just I was following it. You know what I mean? I was the same way. I'm like, I guess I'm gonna send you whatever was Yeah, I gave him the credit card right there.

I'm like, I guess I'm going you know, and you know And it was interesting too because I didn't have like my enhanced license So I wasn't able to like go, you know I mean and and it was like a couple weeks away and I didn't have time to get my enhanced license and And so I called him up and I was like, dude, I don't think I can make it, you know, and stuff like that.

So I was kind of like, well, you know, at least I tried. I still wanted to do it, but he's like, well, I could come to you. And I was like, okay. Oh, he came here.

He came here and we went to my lake house. Oh, you did it to the lake house? Yeah. Oh, you bastard. I would have loved to have done it at the bake house.

Oh my God. It was, it was just great, you know? Yeah, so he came to the lake house. We're kind of shooting the ship for just a couple minutes beforehand.

And, you know, he's like, well, let's get started, right? You know, and before I know it, we're on the porch and going through his process. And honestly, it felt like…

It was really just mind-blowing. Like you said, it was life-altering. It's really hard to explain, isn't it? It really is, because as you're going through the process, and especially when you kind of come to after going through different parts of it, I almost kind of didn't know what to say.

I was almost like, Was that me? Like, or was that like, it was almost like I opened my eyes and I like, Oh God, I forgot you were here. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I remember doing it one time and I was in Austin. I've done six journeys with him. Okay. One on ones. four one-on-ones, I've done seven, no, three one-on-ones, one with Christine, three with the team, so I've done seven.

And I remember last time I was in Austin, and he gave me a really banging dose, like he gave me a big dose of mushrooms at the end, and they were the ones that make you see colors and all of that, and I looked at them and I went, You're still here.

He starts laughing. I was like, you look like an Oompa Loompa. But okay, so aside from the fun with it, like what came out? So what, cause like, I'm fascinated about this.

I've been dying to really dig into this. Yeah, me too, me too. The different piece came out. The different piece definitely came out. What do you mean the different piece?

The piece where like, you know, not good enough. You know, the piece where not good enough in the new definition of that. Oh, the new definition of not good enough.

So what's the new definition? Different. Different? Yeah. Which is like really great, isn't it? Doesn't it frame? It sounds so like minute and so nothing, but it means everything to me.

I think that's the thing is it's so singular. You know what I mean? What something could be perceived by any person would be. Maybe different's not good to someone else.

But to me, I was like, that's always what I wanted to be. No one wants to be not good enough, but it's like different. Like, yeah. that. I've known that.

It just connected with me because I've known that. You've known that for as long as you can remember, right? 100%. So that was just like landed. But the first picture was me spinning around in my office and doing all these, trying to figure it out, you know what I mean, type thing.

And there was a lot of stuff that I was able to essentially be seen you know by my higher self in that situation and be talked to and and almost kind of I don't want to say recognized you know but but I didn't recognize all the stuff that I was doing to make the things happen you know and then since was it was like you know I realized man, I discovered how much I didn't know.

And then I went to work on the stuff that I didn't know. I identified it, I worked at it, I found you, I studied, I implemented, I did this. And I was like, okay, if I want to be able to basically break through this, here's some steps to do.

So I did so many different pieces of work and made many decisions that were necessary, that were very difficult, that I didn't know how to do. And all these different things that it was like, another big piece, like you said, it was like, I discovered that I didn't know how to quit in that particular moment.

And that's an important thing to understand. Huge, huge. Because if you're walking through the desert, and it's hot as fuck, and there's trees where you can take shade, but you don't stop and rest, you're going to die.

You know what I mean? Yes. Not that there'd be trees in the desert. But if you're so lucky. If you're so lucky, you know what I mean. You get the point, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So different. Yeah. So how is that like, so how long ago did you go see him? About a month ago? It was a little over a month. Yeah, it was a little over a month.

And then we did like a little follow up after that, you know, too. No, actually, no, I'm sorry. I believe it was like, just about a month. Okay. About a month ago.

And that was such a rocker. But I learned that I didn't quit. I also learned, again, the whole thing of the value of money. It's like, OK, I wasn't being responsible.

Yeah, I learned that too. I was not a good steward. Yeah, 100%, man. And that was another piece as well. This was really interesting. There was another picture that we framed, and it was around abundance.

And I didn't know you'd shared this with me as well, but I had a specific image that I forgot about, but it just came, man. And it was like, I had decided to become a teacher, right?

And I don't know how long after that, but I remember actually a guy drove by in a Corvette. And I was thinking, I was like, man, that must be nice. No, because that's where I was at things.

Like every 20 year old. Yeah, 100%. You know, that must be great. You know what I mean? But that's not going to be me because I'm going to be a teacher.

Right. And that was and that was buried. That was just bear. Isn't it amazing how those things like prevent that? There's a limiting belief that was buried.

Totally. Next to the melted down. Totally. Chernobyl reactor. 100%, man, 100%. So when I accumulated money, what did I do? I was frivolous with it. I made myself that way.

I made myself that way. And then, again, how powerful the different thing was for me, I was like, well, when it comes down to accumulating wealth, let's just say if that's something someone wants to do, great.

If you don't, great. It doesn't matter. But for me, I have a vision of that for myself. And I was like, well, again, Like that has to be an extraordinary situation or an extraordinary person or a different person to be able to do that.

And I am different, therefore I'm wired for this. And I was just like, whoa. So that's why different was so powerful for me because it hit me in like a self-love state.

I would say that that's the first time I actually literally love myself. Like it's really strange to even say that. Isn't that amazing? But it was that powerful for me, that powerful for me.

And it was like, I could have just walked away right then and been like, Okay. Yeah. And have you been peeling back the onion to the artichoke and you're fine on other shit?

100%. And I think just noticing like, I didn't react to that. Or I don't feel a certain way like I normally would about this, you know, or whatever it might be in those situations that, but I have been journaling a lot and, you know, working on my alter ego and things like that as well.

And And yeah, peeling back the layers big time, but those two for me were like giant. Yeah. The money thing is, I have the same one. And it comes from, you know, it comes from a lot of different places, right?

Like, but a lot of it was trying to prove myself to my mother. because I never got her approval, right? And so, you know, she was always telling me, don't, you know, you're horrible with money, that kind of stuff, right?

So then I would try to prove. So as soon as money would come in, I would spend it down. So I had to jump in and be the savior for my business, right? And so I just noticed this cycle going over and over again.

It wasn't until I worked with Zeller, I was like, fuck. And that was like the third session, because we dealt with a bunch of other stuff earlier. And I was like, holy crap, I had no idea.

And so when I've understood that money, which also relates to, by the way, my first, my first two marriages didn't work, right? Because I didn't understand the masculine and the feminine.

as they exist in life and money. And so money wants to be protected. It wants to be worshipped, right? Meaning not like, oh, money, money, money, but like, you know how you worship your wife, right?

Like, you know, the wives, the women in our lives, they don't want us to, they need us to be soft and tender. They need us to listen to them because they have great instincts, right?

How many times have you not listened to Laura and it's come back and hit you on the side of the head like a fucking ton of bricks? Too many, too many.

This is why my entire leadership team is all women, right? My entire team is women as well. Yeah, because like they had me at dinner the other night and they cornered me and they're like, all right, fine.

Just got it. I understand. Yeah. But yeah, so like the whole point is… So powerful though, right? I mean, like, what a gift. I've done some teaching on it and I've done…

I did it for my doctors and it was one of those things where I got a download one night. I didn't know what I was going to talk about the next day in the mastermind.

And I got a download that night. I was up all night. I got this. I was like, oh, fuck. And I taught it. And did you get here a pin drop? Because it's when you understand that that…

When you understand as a man what a woman really wants, They don't need our money. We don't need to be great in bed. They don't need 5,000 orgasms. They need our hearts.

They just want us to take a breath and hang out and just listen to them. And they don't want us to fix anything. And so when I realized that about money, I was like, oh, God.

Yeah, now I understand why that cycle was always repeating itself, right? Totally, totally. Because money doesn't need me to prove anything. Yeah, definitely not.

In fact, it wants to co-create with me and if I let it co-create with me and if I listen to it and if I guard it and protect it like I would the heart of a woman in my life.

It's like that's the great way to expansion in that realm. How do you get Laura to just, what's the number one thing that Laura wants from you? My time.

My presence. Not just get the house. She wants the phone away. She wants you fully engaged. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the thing too. We've talked about it as well.

So she's like, I don't care about the money. I don't care about the money. Now, of course, she doesn't want to lose the home, but she'd be better at it than I would.

I haven't met your wife, but I can just tell. Yeah, she would be. She totally would. I'm like, so that's me. That's just me because of my own shit, essentially.

And I still want that, even though I'm clearing my shit. But no, I still want this. I still. Yeah, I totally. I mean, look, I still like a nice house.

A hundred percent. It's like, let's be real. Yeah. It still makes me feel good to provide, you know, that type of thing. And I think just experiential, you know what I mean?

Just an opportunities, right? You know, opportunities like this, opportunities like Zeller opportunity, all these different opportunities. But that's what she wants, you know, to answer your question.

One hundred percent is my time, my presence, my heart, full attention. You know what I mean? Engagement. Absolutely. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's all they want.

And if I would have known that, then maybe Sarah and I would still be together. But you had to go through that. It's just fascinating to me. This is to me the beauty of the medicine.

I tried to get there with I didn't do a whole lot of drugs. I smoked, when I was in my first year of college, actually here in Rochester, Rochester Institute of Technology, I did a lot of drugs, right?

Like in the fraternity house, smoked weed every single day. Then, like I didn't do that anymore and then I just dove headlong into the drinking, right?

So I've tried to get there with weed. with drinking, I've tried to get there with sex, I've tried to get there with approval, right? Just as much of a drug.

Dude, you know what it's like, you're on stage, right? Is there anything better than when you're on stage? Oh dude, it's a high in itself. What's the biggest room you've ever played to?

Well, played to only a couple hundred. But still. But I've spoken in front of like 500. 500, pretty intoxicating, isn't it? Oh, big time. Yeah, I love being on stage, right?

Oh yeah, I agree. And when you're on stage, you can meet a lot of women. Yeah, 100%. This is why Rick Okasek was married to a sports illustrated swimsuit model.

Yeah, absolutely. The ugliest man, fucking ugliest guy on the planet. 100% was married to this really hot ball of pork or whatever name was. But yeah, like it's just there's all these other kind of drugs.

The only substance that I've ever taken that has completely shifted and processed more pain for me has been my work in psychedelics. I totally agree, man.

And it's interesting you say that, too, because I had done Mushrooms previous, and I had done it in social situations before, or parties and stuff. And I was like, no, no, no.

I actually went to see a concert with it before. And again, because that's what you hear. Yeah, I would not want to see a concert. 100%. But that's what you hear people do.

Oh, you saw this, and it was all these. Maybe The Dead. Yeah. I went to see Bela Fleck. He's a banjo player. And it was a great show, but I was just like, It's just not for me.

I'd go see the dad at the sphere. I saw I saw you tear at the sphere and I took mushrooms That was pretty good. Yeah, and I think you have to know what you're getting into Yeah, I had kind of definitely been like I'd rather smoke weed and I'm not sure I'd wanna I'm not sure I'd want to see banjo music on mushrooms Yeah, yeah, it just did not work, you know, so I had not done, you know mushrooms and quite a while but but when it applied in this fashion, you know, so basically what it was for me is like recreational for me, you know, it didn't work.

And I don't, I still don't really enjoy it. I want to go deep and connect with myself. And I know it sounds all hooey wooey and stuff like that, but in terms of like this deep internal work, when it's actually purposeful like that, I was shocked.

at it. You were shocked at the speed? I was shocked at the ability that it gave me, you know what I mean? At the level to connect, you know? I guess in a way that I kind of didn't really…

And the speed, yeah. I think that's a great way to put it too. Had you done therapy? Have you done that? I've actually I have been doing therapy. Yes.

And I and I stopped doing it about a month ago and my therapist was great. You know, cognitive behavioral therapy and she worked with ADHD and all these things that I'm blessed with, which I actually truly.

Yeah, you are blessed. Yeah, I mean, truly. And it was great. She's wonderful. Great person and stuff like that. But. I will say, like you said, the speed that I was able to receive and just like explode, you know, through these through these pieces, I guess you'd say, was just like unmatched.

And I think that was that was my takeaway of like, oh, used in this sense, like psychedelics. Ah, got it. You know what I mean? It was like, wow, okay, got it.

Because again, still, I wouldn't go out and be like, I'm going to do mushrooms and go hang out with buddies. To me, if I was going to do that, I'd be like, it's time to do some deep work.

I want to journal. I want to go on a journey. Purposeful. And I really find it. So do you get breakthroughs after, or are you more like the person that gets them in the moment?

In the moment, and then I mile and eight on them. afterwards, which then sometimes leads to other realizations. So do you get like major breakthroughs like two, three days later?

I do. Yeah, I'm the same way. I dot the i's and connect the t's and it's just like, oh, okay. Oh, you know what I mean? And then I'll write that down.

And then a lot of times what I'll do then is if I do like another microdosing journey, I look at those. I look at my notes and I read through them. And then I start to connect more dots.

You know what I mean? During that process, which then leads to more. If you recorded your sessions with Zeller, I did not get the first one recorded. Okay.

And we talked about that. Yeah. And I was really glad, you know, again, talking about everything has a benefit. It was good for me because you nailed it.

You're like, you'd have picked it apart. And I'm like, So you saying that you probably didn't realize that, but I didn't realize that that like resolved it for me.

I was like, it's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cause guys like you and I will overanalyze shit. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Now, now that I've done a couple, I have recorded and then we run them through AI and I overlay my human design on top of it.

And it has been very helpful to get like journal prompts. The mini one that we did, we did like an hour and 15 afterwards. And I did do that one and put it in there.

And it was great. I used it just like you said. Yeah, it gives you an outline. Like, just use it for that. Like, you can go, I mean, AI. Give me a summary.

And you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, OK. Oh, yeah, we did talk about that. Yeah, we did talk about that. OK. And like, OK, yeah. So agreed. Agreed. So you're using it for prompts, too, huh?

For like, journaling prompts? Yeah, so I do a lot of journaling. So it'll take a particular issue. So the issue that I had around money about where it came from with my mom and all of that and just the environment I grew up in.

And there's a lot deeper levels than that. It created like a 21-day journal. I asked her to create a 21-day journal prompt, you know, act as a whatever, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And it was really, really good. Like, I really… Like there was a definite cap on how much money I could see myself managing within the bank account.

That has been blown, like I've expanded that. I'm nowhere near as impulsive. Like it's so funny, I find myself, we were talking about something, should we do this?

Should we do that? And blah, blah, blah. Well, it's only an extra $150 a month. Yeah, but that's an extra $1,800 a year. Let's just go with the basic one.

Like, I would have never said that a year ago. I'd be like, fuck it, let's do the best. Let's go after it, crush it. And I saw those were the patterns that were coming back.

Those were the patterns that were repeating. And I was like, fuck, I'm repeating the same patterns that drove me down. I'm like, I can't do that again.

I can't do that to people that I love. Yeah, agreed. Did you get an alter ego that came out of it? I did. I did. Do we get to know who he is? His name is Transformation Trev.

Transformation Trev? Dude, I am getting you a t-shirt. Yeah, it did. It just popped out and I was super grateful because I had those other ones that I enabled.

One of them was Big Head Trev. We're talking about one. The little kid? No, actually that was Little Trevor. Little Trevor was the defeated, not good enough kid.

And Big Head Trev was me sitting in a boardroom basically being like, yeah, we're going to do four more of these locations. Let's go. We're going to crush it.

You know what I mean? It was that. We were rebranding the company. And yeah, Transformation Trev. Actually, Transformation Trev came about like where that came up was when I met my wife, like legitimately.

It was, we were in a bar. A good buddy of mine had actually just passed away. He was, not that he was a good buddy, but like knew him very well, good friends with his brother.

He's just like a town guy that we all knew and everyone loved the guy, you know, type thing. He was a little younger than me. But he had just passed away.

He was actually like a fantastic. He was a professional snowboarder and he crashed, crashed bad and died from that. So we were all getting together to kind of honor him.

And I was like literally like in bed, you know what I mean, type thing. And I was in like a tie-dye shirt and like my glasses on and stuff like that. And my one buddy, grateful for him, his name is Trey, he got me to come out.

I'm like, all right, I'll come out, I'll come out. And that's when I saw my wife again. And I had known her like two years previous. We worked a very, very short time together in a restaurant.

And there was definitely something there, but she was 17 and I was 23 at the time. So I was like, okay, that's not possible. You know what I mean? Well, it is, but yeah, there's just challenges with it.

100%. She was still in high school. So I was like, okay, you know, there's a lot of things she needs to go through. You know what I mean? If you're Jerry Lee Lewis, it's okay.

Yeah, right. Exactly. But the version of me that came out when I saw her was like, man, it was just like, it was so intent and like, I must do this. It was just so driven and so like clear and so certain, you know what I mean?

That type of thing, but it was all heart driven. It was all like, this is where I want you to go. And I was like, yeah, like, let's go. You know what I mean?

That was Transformation Trev, you know? And it basically was like, the takeaway from that was like, got to get more in tune with this. You got to get more in tune with this, you know, in terms of like, like we talked about, like, you know, like, oh, I saw in 2018, I could have sold right then.

You felt the exact same thing. That was 100%. He's got great insight. Yeah. But it's like, you know, so that's my takeaway is how do I, how do I become more accustomed to looking for that, listening to that feeling for that?

And again, this sounds so like out there, right? But it's like, it's not, it doesn't. You know, it happened. It sounds out there to somebody to me that, you know, and here's the thing about doctors, is they're usually, our clients, our prospects, are very open to new ideas.

You know, I've sent like 14 of my doctors to go see them. Like, we did a group session. at one of my masterminds. It was voluntary, like you didn't have to do it.

And we had like, well, there was 14 doctors that signed up for that. And then we've sent probably another 10 one-on-one, 10 to 14 to go see him one-on-one.

And they're all like, holy fuck, I had no idea. Like think about how abusive the whole medical school thing is. Like, I'm not, you know, I'm not at liberty to say who's gone.

That's their story, right? Like, I know who's gone. I don't know what happens because there's a confidentiality, right? But yeah, I mean, like, you know, people that you know that were in steel mill together, like, there's four or five people in that room that have gone.

And they're just like, I can't say, I said, how was, and he was like, you gotta be kidding me. Holy crap. I had no idea. Yeah. Oh yeah. And can't you see like, cause he's a lot like you and I, right?

Like driven, let's hold this shit together. We're going to figure out a way we're going to, you know, we're going to hump, we're going to hump our destiny in a submission kind of thing.

Right. Yes. I'm like, I wanna get gapping in there. Wouldn't that be great? I don't know anyone who wouldn't benefit from it. And I realized it's like a scary situation to think about because again, like the label.

It's losing control. It is, it is, but it's almost like, Gosh, that's what's necessary. You know what I mean? In terms of whatever you're looking to do, it's what's necessary because you have these blocks, you know, and the whole thing is like you spend 85% of your time in your subconscious, 15% in your conscious mind, and we have all these blocks buried in our subconscious.

And we don't even know about it. Yeah. We don't know about it. So we're spending 85% of our time. So we're actually going into these programs that are then leading how we're behaving.

And it's like, how can that not screw you up? You know, or how can you be your best, your best self, right? That we always talk about and hear about. It's like, how is that possible if you have all these roadblocks that you're not even aware of?

And you don't know how to access. That's the word I was looking for is access. What it gave me was access that I didn't really know how to actually get in any endeavor that I've ever done, especially at such a quick pace like that.

We don't even know how to get access to these things, nor identify them, nor put a label on them. And I wasn't able to without this. And with this, it was just like…

Unbelievable. Yeah, it's I've watched my team. I watched my team transform in a session during the session I watched Heather step up and call her chief operating officer and she's like dude.

She's like she lost like 30 pounds Wow, just because of the emotional weight being gone Yeah, she if you're just when you see Heather again, you'll be like what Wow, that's Heather like her whole persona has changed you don't know Nastasha, but like You know the the thing The thing for me is I realized that there was that 13-year-old kid, Matty Boy, and he was the one calling the shots.

Well, like, no wonder, like… Like he's a fun guy to go drinking with in Vegas. He's a great time at the strip clubs, right? But he's a 13 year old kid, right?

And so for me, my higher self alter ego is Matthew James. And he's a completely different, right? Like even simple things like how I play golf now. Like I used to be a 13 year old kid playing golf.

I'd get upset when I wouldn't hit it a particular way. Right? Absolutely. Oh, I should be able to hit this five-yard cut. I haven't been able to hit a five-yard cut on command for 30 years.

What makes me think I can do it now? Right? Because I used to be a golf pro. But you'll shame yourself. I'll shame myself. Yeah. When I'm like, oh, I should be out practicing more and doing this.

I can pull that shot off. You know what? Let's just hit one shot the same way. Yeah. It is anybody that is like, here's the test. If you think that you don't have any limiting beliefs and you're good, you've got to go see Zeller or somebody like that.

Agreed right very much. Yes, very much, you know, especially if you're looking it also depends on what you're looking to achieve You know, like if you want more and you're looking for more and you feel like you're meant for not more stuff You're talking about more impact for yourself.

Yeah. Yeah personal impact. Yeah, exactly like I'm glad you cleared that. Yeah, because not more. Because you and I are immediately like, great, we need more cars.

It's looking to be more. If you're looking to be more, you know what I mean? Impactful. Yeah, that's what it was for me. I was looking to be more. And I knew like another seminar is not going to do that.

You know what I mean? For what I'm looking for right now. But what I'm looking to be more of is a better leader. You know, and I'm like, I don't know how to do that.

I don't know a seminar that's going to do that for me. No, for me, that's why this landed because I was like, Oh, okay. So how has it changed your day-to-day?

So at the Stay Young centers, you have two of them? You have two of them? We have Buffalo and Denver. Because everybody should have their first two facilities in two different times.

Yeah, 100%. Makes it really easy. Great idea. Yeah, it's an awesome idea. I think I told you not to do that, but you did it anyway. Yeah, I think you did.

I think I did. I think you did. I'm pretty sure you did. I'm pretty sure I told you this was a bad idea. I'm sure you did. My day-to-day, man, I will just say it hasn't changed much in terms of my activities, you know, because I have definitely moved into like very focused precision in terms of what we're focusing on as a company.

So the theory of constraints and that actually, you know, was brought back by you, you know, in your teachings. um and and I took it for I took it way deeper you know because I was like yeah of course you did yeah that well because but it just made so much sense because I was setting say like quarterly goals right and I just wasn't hitting them you know and I was way over aiming and then I was disappointing myself and we were accomplishing but I wasn't even actually giving myself credit you couldn't even say the progress you were making because not at all like you sucked you didn't hit all the quarterly goals you misestimated all these type of things and I was like But these things don't disappear because if they were a quarterly goal, then why would I have different quarterly goals next quarter unless I just chose wrong last quarter, so to speak.

If I didn't accomplish or finish the main thing, then you know then don't i still need to do it yeah you know so it's almost like well then my quarterly goals would kind of carry over to the next one and then i kind of took it a step further and i was just like there needs to be i guess like a linear structure you know to this in terms of uh like what is the main thing right you know and and finding that i actually have a really cool method with with how i gauge like you got a huge list how do you decide right but i did that and i went through that And essentially, it just kind of like put things in a linear fashion, but it's almost like the only one that actually counts is number one, because once you finish that, it might knock a bunch of the other ones over and you kind of have to recalibrate.

But nonetheless, it basically put it to where the main thing is the main thing. And that is the thing that we're really concentrating all of our resources and time on in terms of the growth of the company.

So that hasn't changed, you know, to answer your question. But what has is like my level of joy. I will say my level of joy in actually doing the work it's almost like I'm I've given myself permission to enjoy it as opposed to be like okay you gotta get this done so you can get to that and then you can get to that yeah it's getting to the next thing yeah because I have this thing on my phone that basically is like a reminder to myself and this is back to the office right that i was sitting there spinning around in front of the whiteboard trying to figure it out and it says i'm no longer bailing water just to stay afloat i'm captaining the ship now yeah and that that is kind of like the best way i can explain it is i've been bailing water bailing water yeah you know what i think another thing like a why i went to zeller and why what you told me hit so well was because I was like, things are going well.

You know, we're growing. Like, we're profitable. Like, not going to lose the house. You know what I mean? I'm starting to clear up debt and all these types of things.

Like, why am I so effing anxious, man? I know. Like, why am I? I know. Like, what is going on, bro? You know what I mean? And it was so frustrating. And that was it, because I was bailing water.

You know what I mean? So like, my day to day has changed more to like, I'm calmly focused on what I have next, and I'm approaching it more with like, yes, like I get to do this, like cool, all right, we're gonna work on some AI stuff, or I'm gonna work on this and work on that.

And then I would say that from a day to day, how it's changed is my certainty, my leadership has already changed without really working on like, okay, I'm gonna study some leadership skills.

I think it's just like my certainty and my poise and my energy level, or I guess you'd say like my vibe is best way to say it, like I'm not like, bouncing off the walls, it's just more like my vibe of certainty.

Well, that's Big Head Trev. A hundred percent, right? That's the guy I don't want. That nervous energy? A hundred percent, yeah. I need to prove to the team how good I am.

Yeah. Right? You own the company. Do you really need to prove to the team how great you are? Isn't it ludicrous? I know. Isn't it nuts? Yeah, it is. It's just idiotic.

Yeah. And now it's turned into like, I love this. Let's go. Here's what I have to share. Here's what I found, everyone. Here's this. And it's just such a different level of receivership as well.

and just joy through the process. So that's changed. And then also my desire and my ability to separate, which we've talked about. We've talked about that for years in terms of like, I can't just shut off Matt.

I don't know how to stop when I'm supposed to stop because my safe place is the office. And if I'm not bailing water, I feel like the ship is sinking.

And that was totally the truth. And it's total and it's all centered around having to prove yourself a hundred percent not being good enough right you know what i mean for me you know so so it's like the the definition of i'm different has given me self given me permission it's like well because i'm different that means i'm extraordinary because that's not normal i don't don't want to be normal because normal is you can't do what i want to do on normal so this is great so it allows me to actually i guess you'd say shut off at the end of the day and separate and be present with the family.

So like that has actually happened. That's how my day-to-day has actually shifted. It shows everywhere. For me it was, you talk about bailing water, for me it was going out on the rescue boat and rescuing everybody.

So I'm the lighthouse. The lighthouse doesn't move. Instead of chasing, because I spent my whole life chasing, chasing money, chasing women, chasing alcohol, chasing a good time, chasing things, chasing this next business idea.

Oh, that's the business idea that's going to make me millions. How many of those have you had? Yeah, just ironically, probably everyone if we would have stuck to them.

And like for me, it's no, the lighthouse doesn't move. The lighthouse is the same and it protects people and it calls them in. Yeah. So what did that do for you when you realized that you didn't have to run out to them, so to speak?

You know, I mean, it's what was your. Well, it's really hard. I'm not going to lie because I I want I still want things to go fast. OK. And I've learned I'm learning that like we had our quarterly meeting two weeks ago and I was having anxiety on Saturday night, you know, at Gunner's house after we played golf and stuff like that.

And I was having all this anxiety of like, well, we're not going fast enough. We should have sales in. I'm like, you dumb ass, it's been a holiday week, right?

Like we just, everybody left the meeting. They had like two days in the office. Then you gave them like three days off, right? And I'm, I'm impatient.

So I, I have to resist the temptation to go out and go onto the rowboat and bring back a tuna. You know what I mean? That is so interesting. Cause like when I, so how do you do that?

Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, you know what I mean? How do you prevent that? How have you, I guess, what's your strategy for that, so to speak?

Well, so I understand clearly the different personas that are inside of me. So for me, Matthew, Matty boy, is that 13 year old kid, right? And he was the one that was bullied and beat up and fat.

And, you know, my mom told me she was proud of me three times, like, and I think twice was the last four months of her life when she was on Well Buttern.

And, you know, growing up without a father and all of that, and all that trauma. So, and then there's Matthew James. And Matthew James meets with presidents and prime ministers.

Like, I'm really clear about the work we're doing. Like, we're going to free 100,000 doctors. It's that simple. And we're going to, like, I know we're going to fill stadiums and we're going to meet with presidents and prime ministers.

world leaders and you know this isn't just i'm not here to fix the system we're gonna we're gonna create a new one we're gonna create a better one awesome where the doctor and the patient are at the center of it i have no idea how to do it beyond that you know i mean uh i mean i have some ideas clearly but um that's the fun part but that's the fun part right and i don't have to have the answers all i have to do is just be on the path so for me is when I find myself, well, one, I have to tell you this.

So Christine and I were in Punta Mida at the St. Regis. This was in May. So, you know, went through this hellacious change in my life, moved, doing all of that, traveling a bunch, getting set up in a new place.

making transitions in the company, bringing on a CFO, giving Heather operational control, bringing on a chief market, getting myself out of all three areas of the business.

So big shifts. Huge. And all the while doing all these journeys. So Christine and I go down to Punta Mida, and it's a beautiful place, the St. Regis. And I wouldn't play golf, because golf is my thing, right?

That's the thing. everything becomes clear when I play golf. Like I'm just completely, like for you it's lifting weights or playing hockey or whatever, right?

That is it for me, right? And so I got done playing golf. We played a Nicholas golf course that day and I had played golf with this guy from California.

We just happened to meet. We were both singles and we hit it off. You know how like you're just, you meet some guy and he's like 52. He played football at Stanford, right?

You know, just real estate guy. We were just having a great conversation. And it was, I was on the 16th T and we were talking about life and marriage and he's divorced and just, you know, the kids and all the stuff like high achiever, you know, the kind of conversations.

And, uh, yeah. And he asks totally have never seen the guy since by the way. Right. Didn't get his number or anything. And he asked me on 16, he's like, Oh, your parents alive.

I said, no, my mom passed away seven years ago. My dad died when I was 13 years old, sitting next to him watching a baseball game. And he said something to me, he goes, well, I'm really sorry to hear that, that must've been really tough.

And I normally would say, oh, you know, it's no big deal, it is what it is. Like I would totally blow it off. It was the first time in 44 years I said, yeah, it really fucking sucked.

And it still sucks. It was the first time I ever acknowledged it. Fast forward a couple hours later, I'm sitting by the pool, I take a nap, I wake up from this nap, and I'm immediately transported back into the room.

My father died, and I was sitting next to him, and I was that little kid who had this green carpeting. And I was sitting on the couch. My dad's sitting here, and I'm sitting right next to him.

And it was the first time ever, Trevor, that I completely replayed that in my head. And I remember completely freezing. Now, which makes sense. You're watching your father go light pink, dark pink.

He's cheap. He had our AFib, right? Turning purple, then dark pink, then light pink, then white, then gray, then blue, right? Like, you know, and I'm standing there and I'm watching this whole thing happen.

And I had never processed it for 44 years. So that day, I went up to the room and I fucking lost it. I cried like I've never cried before in my life. And I go through some stuff and I use chat.

Chat's my therapist. ChatGPT is a great therapist. It's a great fucking therapist. It's kind of creepy. And it had me write a letter from Matty Boy to Matthew James.

I had to write a letter as to not having a father and I had to write a letter to the green room. And then that night, Christine and I went out to the Pacific Ocean and we went through a ceremony and we burned it and we set it out.

So this is the answer to your question, what prevents me? From that moment on, Matty Boy is no longer in charge. He still gets to come along. He's here, right?

He gets to come on the trip and he gets to sit in the corner and tell fart jokes and all that other fun stuff, right? But Matthew James is fully in control.

And so to answer your question, I had to go through a process to get to that. Like for me, I had to bury some things that were still lingering, right?

And it was like a really transformational, like, and the next day Christine was like, she was expecting me to still process and I woke up and like, she's like, how you doing?

I'm like, I feel great. She's like, what do you mean? I said, I'm good. I don't need to deal with this again, it's gone. And, yeah, right? This is the kind of results that you get with this work.

I would have never have gotten there. I'm not saying therapy is bad. That's not what I'm saying at all. And I'm not saying the only way you can get there is through the use of psychedelics.

However, the tool for me, the tool for you, for a lot of other folks, to me has been Like, game-changing. Like, I never would have gotten to that place, Trev.

Totally, dude. Totally. So I have tinges of it, but I now recognize, because I'm so in tune with my body, that's not where I make decisions. That's not how I'm wired.

And Matthew James is very calm. He's patient. So one of our values is love. Love is patient. Love is kind. Love doesn't keep a list of right or wrongs.

You know, 1 Corinthians 13. Love it. Right? That's the definition of what we use. So I just, I love my people. I love my work. And so we just have to be patient.

And I got to be kind with myself, not with them. And I got to love myself. Yeah, dude. Right. Yeah. Because you can't love your people if you don't love yourself.

Dude, 100 percent. Right. And again, it sounds so basic, doesn't it? But it sounds so fucking cheesy, too, doesn't it? It does when you say it. But it's almost like when you actually get a glimpse of it and it actually starts to happen, then you're like, yeah, well, it was right.

There's a reason why that saying is there. There's a reason. It's the reason why it survived 2000 years. 100%. Just like all these great things. And I, wow, that's, that's beautiful.

That's beautiful, man. Because, you know, and it's interesting too, because like therapy, by the way, you know, the chat GPT, I actually use the Tony Robbins avatar as my therapist.

Do you really? Yeah, it's great. God, I gotta try that. You just look him up, you know, under there. You can download the Tony Robbins chat, and that's usually what I use, too, so it's really cool.

Of course, it's done his voice, right? But it's in his rhythmic speaking style, I guess we'd say. It's pretty awesome. But I concur. I use that as well.

I think it's just when you're talking about therapy, I think any step forward in terms of working on yourself is fantastic. And that tends to be like where we first go.

It's like, I'm going to talk to a therapist. Or I'm going to talk to chat GPT. And I was doing those concurrently when I was working with my therapist.

And that led me to this work, this work with Zeller, with psychedelics. And I would not have done it or been as open to it if I hadn't already tried that.

You know what I mean? Because it was like, that's doing something, but this sounds like something profound. And I probably would have said, well, let me try therapy first.

I know that. I know I wouldn't have done that. So I think it's like every, Every endeavor has a progression and every endeavor has multiple levels, you know, to it as well.

And some people may not be ready for it, but if you are, man, I would so recommend it because it's just like, you know, if you really want to grow and really would want to move forward and say, be more of you, your best self, you know, so to speak, dude, you know what I mean?

Well, in working with doctors and, you know, like, you're in the mastermind with me, I mean, their heads Their hearts are cut off because they're taught, oh, you have to be the smartest.

You got to think through this. Don't trust you. You have to know it all, right? So they get disconnected from their heart. They can't feel it. And when they go and when they do some work, like some of this stuff, their hearts get reconnected.

And they're like, Oh, my God, my wife actually, or my husband is actually like, nice to me. And my patients are telling me what, what's the difference with you?

Like, it's just a little subtle shift. So it's good stuff. Which again, when you change one degree, right? You know, when you actually times that by 365 days, and then by 10 years or five years, it's just like you are on a completely different course, even just one degree.

So, you know, you've had the clinics now for how long? How long have you had the clinic? Four years. Four years. Four years now. It's making money. Yes, making money.

It's making money. Yeah, absolutely. And it's consistent. It is. It is. It's predictable. It is. How hard is that for you? How hard is it for you to not want to go in and fix it?

Cause it's a good little business. Like you're always trying, I feel like you're trying to make it something that it's not sometimes. And I will say it's not 100% predictable.

We have our months. Of course you do. You know what I'm saying? You lose a person or a couple of sales staff or whatever it might be, but, but yes. How hard is it for me not to go in and fix it?

I would say it's much easier now because I feel I feel much more certain as the captain essentially, you know Looking at the big picture, you know kind of like like I had mentioned like the whole theory of constraints where I had taken that was I then fell upon Jensen Wang and of NVIDIA.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you talked about that. But that's where he was talking about there is only one focus for his company, and then they do it in a sprint fashion.

And essentially, they put all their resources into it. And of course, in some businesses, you can't necessarily put all your resources in. My techs are not working on our conversion rate optimization type thing.

But that's where we're going to from a business standpoint. So because of that, because that level of focus. I've been able to like, look inside of the business and and be able to kind of direct like what we need to, you know, focus on from that perspective, and it's in line, you know, I guess is the best way to say it so it's like, that has made because I know it's like, okay, we got to really work on our leadership structure from like our manager managers, you know, okay, we're calling them owner operators, you know, I mean, just to give them more more ownership over it, but rebuilding that system.

That's actually been something I've been waiting on, because it's like that needs work, because we're just shooting from the hip, you know, I mean, type thing.

but now we're actually working on it. We're about three quarters the way through that. And then I have another thing, like our onboarding system needs revamping and our health coaching needs revamping, but they're in line.

So I think having those in line for me give me, I guess you'd say like, okay, you know, and I look at it weekly. I was telling you that as well. I'm like, is this still in the right order?

No, you know what? Actually, this needs to go here. Okay, I feel great about that. Yeah, that makes complete sense. And then I'm going to look at it again when we finish the thing we're focusing on right now.

So I think that's given me the ability to not want to jump in there and do that. Because going back to what you said about patience, it's like, man, I heard a great definition of that, and it came from Hermosy.

It's like, patience is what you do in the meantime, essentially. That's always got good shit. Isn't it great? It's so good. It just resonated so well, because it's like, well, the team is working on this thing.

They're working on the main thing. And Lindsay's working on the main thing. Lindsay's my business partner. If I go in there and disrupt something and throw a stick in the spokes, it's only going to prevent the main thing from happening that much further.

So what can I do in the meantime to satisfy my craving to contribute and move things forward? It's like, well, I have this list of all these things that are going to be going on next.

And she doesn't even know about several of them. So I can go in there and start laying tracks on that stuff. And there's a lot of stuff that I can do to create there and fill in this gap.

So by the time we get to it, it's way more plug and play. But I'm also working on the stuff, but not frustrating the team. So that's really how it shifted big time for me.

And I think giving me the ability to feel like I'm doing, I'm moving, but I'm enjoying that process and not having to throw the stick in the spokes because I'm so convinced that right now, based upon what I did in the past, let's go from four to eight, right?

My patience right now is in, we need to nail this model before we scale it. You know what I mean? Like, that's it. Is that what you want to do? Do you want to scale it?

100%. Okay, so you're cool with the fact that that's not trying to prove something. Yeah, yeah. In fact, I kind of almost don't even know what that means.

Like at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I know it's still fresh. I know it's still fresh. When you say that, right? But it's like, no, I just want to do it.

Is it like spreading the gospel of helping women feel better? It is. It definitely is, because I love helping people with that. There's nothing better than when people lose weight, I think.

I agree, man, because I have a huge saying that we say around the company that I've really just spoken over and over again. It's not even about the goals.

It's not about hitting the body transformation goals. It's what's enabled in someone's life once that happens. That's when the self-esteem goes up, the confidence, all these different opportunities.

Well, imagine what that means. So, you know, unfortunately, our society is tied to how you look. Sure. So, you and I aren't changing that, right? And, you know, you've seen it, right?

when women give birth, their bodies get trashed. Three, four kids into it. But if they don't have really good self-image or belief about themselves, what does that do then to their daughter or their son or their relationships?

Like if we can give them a little bit more of, losing 10 pounds is a big deal for a lot of people. And it makes, they may only go from say 200 pounds to 190 pounds, but God, that's, Breaking that, too, could mean everything.

But it's everything. They feel a little bit better about themselves. They have a little bit more confidence. They're, you know, save a marriage, right?

Even just that one to two degrees right there, it's transformative. And they don't even realize it's there. That's the big thing, too. And I've done this almost 30,000 times now.

You know, we've calculated our thing. How much weight have you? 600,000 pounds. You've helped women lose 600,000 pounds. We're like just shy, just shy.

So just shy of 600,000 pounds, over 260,000 inches and over 133,000 just in the midsection. Jesus. Yeah, which is crazy. And that's in Buffalo and Denver.

This is not like you've got 400 facilities just in Buffalo. This is actually since weight loss. So this this includes the gyms, you know, I mean, as well, because what we're doing with includes numbers and gym.

Okay, cool. It does. Yep. Yep. Because we basically it's almost like what we're doing now is like, you know 20.0 version you know it's literally um iteration after iteration after iteration to where we've landed and gotten better and made it more simplistic and easier to digest and easier to implement and all these different variables to where it's almost like oh it's become simple and you don't need to exercise you know to lose the weight that you want now if you want to be shredded and get really leaned and toned afterwards okay well we'll handle that then but let's get point a first right And it's just the metabolic impact, I mean, lowering their type 2 diabetes risk, high blood pressure risk, high cholesterol risk, the weight on their joints and things like that.

All these things that are kind of unknowns that we know, but it's almost like we just got to get them to the prize because as soon as they start getting these little tastes, then their whole mental begins to shift.

and then they have a whole new perspective, not only of themselves, but of life, so to speak, and just that. That's what I love about the transformations, because it's almost like, you don't even know what's coming, but I've seen it literally 30,000 times, so way till you get a glimpse of this.

You know what I mean? That's what I love about it. So I love that. And to answer your question, is it a not good enough thing at this point? No. I just wanna see what I can do.

You know, and I think I want to see what I'm capable of. That's interesting. You just want to see what you can do. You want to see what you want to see what transformation Travis capable of.

Yeah, exactly. And it was almost before I just want to see if I'm good enough to do it. I would probably say is maybe where it was before. But now it's just like, I just want to see what I can do because I think I can.

You know what I mean? I think I can do that. And I think that would just be really cool is kind of just where it's at. You know what I mean? It would just be really cool, you know, to do that.

Yeah, I would say in the past to be like, well, it doesn't really matter if I reach 100,000, it's the big goal. No, I want to reach 100,000. Yeah. Like, what could we, like, think about what we could do for our country.

Yeah. Yeah, dude. Like, think about it. We could explode the whole industry. I mean, like. Well, think about what we could do, like, if you have better health, like, you know, you're not going to be as, have as much anxiety because you realize how fucked our food supply is, right?

Like, you have control of your health. You don't need to go through menopause. If we could. Yes. Right. I mean, even just that. Yeah. No woman should have to go through menopause and no man should have to be with a woman while she goes through menopause.

Oh, man. Amen. Amen. And like you said, God bless them because, like, they always go through brutality. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, again, I just had this conversation with a guy yesterday at hockey.

I was like, I just want to put this out there. If it was up to us, the human race would have been done a long time ago. Absolutely. Yeah, we would have killed them all off.

We don't have the courage, you know, to do that. We just wouldn't have birthed more. We'd be like, I'm not doing this. 100% no. Let's go play hockey. Out of what?

Yeah, exactly. So, but you're right, man. You know, and God bless them. They're like, yeah, let's do it again. I'm like, what are you insane? And to your point, though, it's like, my gosh, they don't have to be suffering through that menopausal state like they are.

And the attention on it is, It's it is disgusting. Honestly, like the lack of attention to it. Oh, yeah, that's like this is just how it is. You're a woman.

This is just how it is. Like the things that that are normally said to women. It's like, oh, no. Here, you're just depressed. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. There's there is a solution out there.

And you know of it. You know of it. And you have so many practitioners who are doing it and doing it. Right and what you do with like you're you know, you're doing weight loss.

You're not doing hormones. Are you? Well, we actually we're actually doing hormone regulation through nutrition. Okay, cool full detox regulation. Oh, that's great full cellular reset So yeah, we're getting a balance of the hormones naturally through that which is nuts, you know from the thyroid to Leptin ghrelin, you know, oh and just the food allergies like one of the staff members just did her food allergy thing and she's like She eats eggs every single day eggs and cheese and she's allergic to eggs and cheese I'm like that right there is ten pounds of inflammation out the door I was gonna say cellular inflammation, dude.

Cellular inflammation, like you just change that, like you don't need to do anything else. You'll drop 10 to 15 pounds just by doing that. Because cellular inflammation leads to weight loss resistance, where no matter what you do, you're not gonna lose weight.

So even if you're doing everything right, just missing that piece. You know, like when I did the work with Zeller and like I've made changes with my diet, it's like when I got back from Zeller, I went and saw Will Haas, Dr.

Haas, and I said, You I got a lot of work to do over the next 25 years. I got a lot of doctors to free. I need to be my best physical fucking condition, right?

And it was at that point I quit drinking and you know immediately dropped like another five pounds, right? And then, you know, muscle mass went up and body fat's gone down.

And, you know, I mean, I haven't had my cellular age checked, but I'm sure it's less than 57. I mean, there's just no need. There's so much great access and people like, oh, you got to make, you know, insurance needs to cover it.

No, insurance never needs to cover this shit because they'll fuck it up. They'll totally screw it up. Because Big Pharma doesn't have their hands in it.

And trust me, they're trying to kill it. Yeah, no, they'll try to kill it. 100% they will. But I think a big part of what people don't really know, and I literally just did an episode on this last week, was that the entire medical curriculum is actually created by Big Pharma.

I know. No, they pay for it. Yeah, 100%. They give them money. So you don't think it's leading? That's why there's no nutrition. I was going to say, and the entire…

And do you see Kennedy just required they have to do two semesters of nutrition? They did, because right now they only do one course. Yeah, they do one course.

I think you have to do two semesters now on nutrition. Yeah, because again, now the whole nutrition protocol as well, the whole nutrition pyramid and all these different things, these are actually made by big food companies.

You mean the food pyramid? Yes. 100%. Like these are made by Kellogg's and Dannon. But that's what tobacco tobacco bought, right? Yes. I mean, they've made the food addictive.

That's a whole nother topic we can't go into. But it's but it's interesting, though, right? So it's almost like, oh, geez. Yeah. So it's like the positioning of these these physicians and these doctors who are brilliant minds.

Essentially, what they're trained to do is they're trained to throw a drug at a situation. It's not true cause and effect. No. I mean, it's just like they're told what to do.

Yeah. Prescribe that. Yeah, they're told what to do. They don't get to make decisions. Exactly. This will cause this side effect. So prescribe that to cover that side effect.

It's not true science. You know what I mean? It's not that they're not brilliant, but there's a better way. There's got to be a better way. There's always a better way.

There 100% is. And I'm thrilled with what you're doing, because I see that as It's a necessary thing. And it's, I guess you'd say from a business standpoint, it's untapped, but it's almost like, why is it untapped?

Like, why has someone not done something about this? Because it's, you know, it was interesting. I had this conversation with Brigham Bueller when we were in Las Vegas.

I don't know Brigham. He's doing the stuff on the FDA. He's involved with Kennedy and all of that. And he's the guy that brought to like the pharmacy benefit managers, like that whole con.

And so I didn't know him and I saw him and I introduced myself and we're talking. And he said something to me and he said, what you're doing is not only important, you're the only one, you're the only type of person that could do that.

And I said, why is that? And he said, because you don't have any initials after your name like I do. He said, the medical board can't come after you, the pharmacy board can't come after you.

He said, I have to look at he goes, I speak out, I get mysterious lawsuits and claims against me that cost me that they they show up at my and I'm paraphrasing.

So I'm not like, basically, basically what he's saying is when he speaks out. Things happen like, you know, there's you can get in trouble. They can come at him from a different business angle.

I'm not putting words into Brigham's mouth. I'm summarizing what I was feeling, what I took away. So it's really important that people understand that because I don't want to be speaking for him.

But I've heard that from a couple of other people. You and I are not part of the system, so we can speak more clearly about the abuse that we see. And I mean, you were in the mastermind with me.

You saw what these doctors go through. Absolutely. Absolutely. I did. And the fear they have. Yeah. I mean, they film full of fear. Yes, I agree. I agree.

That's just not good for them. So no. And I think what you're supplying, you know, to them from a standpoint, because, you know, I was in a group, you know, just like, just like you, you're leading the group, obviously, but I'm the only non-doctor in the group.

So it was like really amazing to have that perspective. and also be able to provide value from like well I know business at least more than say a good majority in there so to speak so I was able to provide value and just form these connections with just an amazing group of people I mean like you know these people are just brilliant and I've learned so so much from them from as I say from a clinical perspective you know as well where I needed it And it was just- Yeah, you and I have not.

I had no idea what I was doing. I know my lane. I've been doing weight loss 29 years, so I know that, but they've helped me really amplify my perspective at it and my approach to it with their knowledge on top of it, which I never would have had otherwise.

And that's been so helpful. And it's allowed me to really be, I guess you'd say revolutionary compared to the other counterparts that are out there. I'm grateful for it, man.

And I think that, you know, you giving them the business standpoint of it to then be empowered enough to actually walk away from the system. And I've seen so many of your doctors do that already and just be like, boom, you know what I mean?

That is just awesome to see. Yeah, the freedom they get is I get a lot of satisfaction from that. You know, the best part about it with this and this is I know this feeds my ego.

The best part about it is when their spouses say thank you. Oh, that's that's the best part. 100 percent. I could see that. But it's deserved. It's deserved.

You know, as long as you can kind of chew it down and know what it is. Yeah, no, I know what it is. And I know I used my ego used to get fed by it. But now it's just like, that's really cool.

Yeah. I think that's really, really cool when they're like or their kids come up to me and say, Yeah, my dad talks about you a lot, like that you've really made a great impact on his life.

I'm like, thanks, dude. I really appreciate that. Like, yeah, my dad was thinking about getting out of medicine and now he's happy again. He's found his spark again.

I'm like, cool. Thanks. That is awesome, dude. Yeah. Like before, be like, look at me. I'm Superman. Now I'm like, wow, that's really humbling. That's really cool.

I hope I can do it again. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to continue that, you know, like the growth into that, you know, like just being humbled by things, you know, because I think that that's more growth.

Because otherwise it's not growth. No, it's just not no because if you're doing for the approval of others I mean like have you read? Have you read Rick Rubin's book create creativity?

No, it's really good. So, you know Rick Rubin is like one of the great like Record producers of all time, right? Yes, and he said, you know, you have to create the art for arts sake not for anybody else's and he goes his job is to release the artist and Basically what they'll do is like I'm thinking about doing this and Rick will go.

Okay, let's do that. I Like, he's like, I don't play an instrument. I'm not very good on a soundboard, right? Like, I'm not technically trained in music at all.

I just know what I like. And so my job is to release the artist to create what's inside of them, because it's going to be great. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I love that.

That's kind of how I view my work. Yeah, and that's how I view my work at this point to like like legitimately. I think that's a really great way to to do it I'm doing it to do it because I actually enjoy it.

I like it. It's my lane, you know, it's given so much to me You know what I mean? So it's like I'd love to unlock that for other people, you know what I mean, at the end of the day.

And grow, grow really well, you know, in the meantime and make a great living off of it and be paid handsomely well. I mean, I think there's nothing wrong with that, especially when you're, you know, creating impact and your intention is great too.

You know, at least that's my belief, you know, as a person, you know, so, but I enjoy it. I enjoy it greatly. Cool. I'm glad you made the time to come in, man.

This has been, brother, this has been great. You know, we've been up for like over an hour and a half, we've been going. Really? Yeah. Like all times.

Like good all times. It's just like you and I all times. Yeah, man. Trev, thanks for coming. And, you know, if you're in Buffalo or Denver, stay Young Centers.

Stayyoungcenters.com. TheStayYoungCenters.com. TheStayYoungCenters.com. Correct, correct. Check us out. And who knows, maybe there'll be a franchise or a licensing deal coming to you soon.

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I think we're going to own them all though. Yeah, good. Yeah, I think that's probably the right way. Yeah, I think so. I'm going to kind of follow in the footsteps of, what is it, P. F.

Chang and Starbucks and those type of things as well, just because I don't know why. You don't need to explain it. You just know. You don't need to justify shit to anybody.

It feels right at the end of the day. Yeah, I'm grateful for it. And I'm grateful for you, man. Thank you so much for having me. And again, just to think of the first phone call, because I saw you on someone else's podcast.

and uh and it was just it was i remember you called me i'm like who the hell is this guy he's not a doctor i called you like right after i know you know i reached you like called you reached out you emailed me and you bought a book actually no i should say i should say yeah i got your book right afterwards i read it within like days and i i don't think i knew your contact but i don't know how i even got it yeah i reached out to you and got an appointment oh got an appointment through your funnel i think it was but It was just one of those things.

Again, from here, it was like, yup, go there. You know what I mean? So I'm grateful for it, man, because it was a huge part of my growth. I've learned so much from you already.

And I know there's more. And I just fully believe in what you're doing. And I know you've done for me. Again, I'm not even a doctor. So it's like, knowing that power in the field that you're in, it's like I can just see the impact already happening.

The 100,000, I can see that happening. Why not? Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Why not? So yeah, you came into my life at a very important time. You helped me. You helped make me better because you asked me questions like, oh, yeah, I should probably fucking work on that.

Right. Like because I was still in the shit from my first marriage ending and I was drinking too much. And but then I'm like, oh, yeah. OK, we need this can be something like, OK, people actually want this.

So it's really cool. So likewise, I'm glad you came in my life, too. You've made me a better guy. Love you, brother. Love you, too, man. All right. Thanks, Trev.

All right, everyone. That's it. That's what we call a rap. If this episode got you thinking differently, hit follow and share it with someone stuck in the system.

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How Losing Everything Became His Greatest Comeback

Matthew Gillogly

Trevor Buccieri

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