How Neural Retraining Can Positively Impact Thyroid Health

Doctor Kellyu2019s Thyroid Health Introduction 0:00

Hi, I'm doctor Kelly Halderman. I'm a former medical physician and author of The Thyroid Debacle. I'm now devoting my life to education, research and biotech because I realize we need educated people to bring us cutting edge information, especially when we find ourselves with a diagnosis such as hypothyroidism. When I was practicing allopathic medicine, I myself became very sick, bedridden with what would be diagnosed as Lyme and mold infections. Along my health journey, I was also diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, a condition I was told that could only be managed with medication.

Well, I'm here to tell you that there is more than medication to help you, as you will learn through my powerful interviews with several functional medicine practitioners. There are tools that will help empower you to take charge of your health. Join me today as I interview leading doctors, naturopathic specialists to uncover the most useful health insights for you. This podcast has been launched in collaboration with Doctor Talks. Visit them today at Doctor talks.com. Backslash Calendar to learn more about their upcoming summits.

Hi everyone. Welcome to Doctor Talks. This is your host, Doctor Kelly, and we're doing this awesome series on thyroid health and we have a very special guest. Madalyn Lowry is here. She's going to talk about the map method. And you guys, this is one of my absolute personal favorite tools that I ever use to move the needle so far with my thyroid health and overall health. So welcome, Madeline. Thank you so much, Doctor Kelly. I'm so happy to be here with you. Great. Yes. Like I said, I am super personally excited to talk about what you do in your practice.

So let let's let you have the floor. Why don't you tell everyone about your practice yourself, how you got to where you are and what you're doing right now?

How Madalyn Lowry Discovered the MAP Method 1:51

Yeah. So my practice right now is 100% map method sessions. The map method is, it is advanced neural retraining. So it is a technique for advanced neural retraining. It is much more powerful and much easier also than other energy psychology methods of the past. Well, lot of the past that were created in, say, the 1980s or the 1990s, like eMDR and EFT or what's commonly called tapping. It is also more powerful than things like the dynamic neural retraining system, and other what I would call basic neural retraining systems.

So the mat mat method is a mind body healing method that I kind of fell into, right? I didn't go looking for this, and it would have been hard to go looking for it because it is very little known. There are currently only about. There are fewer than 200 practitioners in the world. So it is and most of them are outside of the United States. So, I was practicing as a nutritional therapy practitioner. I was working with a lot of people with allergies and sensitivities, and that was, you know, part of part of my work with them and working with their chronic health issues was to help them identify those sensitivities so that they could remove these foods from their diet and hopefully start to feel better.

Right, because we as nutritional practice, nutritional therapy practitioners, which is kind of a functional nutrition approach, believed that, that sensitivities have a big effect and can contribute to chronic health symptoms. And they do. So but so I had this, this big group of, of clients that were, that had a lot of sensitivities, although not all of them wanted to play by my playbook, which is eliminate, you know, take a few months off and then slowly try to reintroduce. They were not having that.

So they would leave my office and they'd have a list of, you know, I would test them against food and food kits, through energy kinesiology. And I'd send them home with a long list of things that they might possibly be sensitive to. Right. And then this is a common experience that people have when they work with functional practitioners, because, you know, we are trying to get to root causes. But they would say, I don't want to have to eliminate all this. It's Thanksgiving next week. You know, what am I going to eat?

And so what they wanted from me was, how do I eliminate this? How do I stop the sensitivities? And this sent me on a search because this is not, you know, we we aren't equipped for this with nutritional therapy. It's just elimination and reintroduction. That's what we have. Those are tools. And so I started to test a lot of allergy and sensitivity elimination techniques. And I found that the best ones worked with the brain. So I started to teach a basic neural retraining method. And I was very impressed by the results.

About 70% of the people that I taught were able to resolve their sensitivities. And we also noted that certain chronic health issues also resolved at the same time, which is pretty amazing. However, there was always this group, 25 or 30% that didn't respond and that sent me looking for something more, right? I kept wishing that I could find something that I could do for people in sessions, rather than sending them home to practice some exercises and practices for an hour a day for months on end.

You know, how could we do this for someone in a set of sessions? And then I found the mat method. So it was kind of like being hit in the head. Yeah, right. Once I found it, I knew that this was the technique I was looking for. Great. And so with that, I think the next organic question is, is can you describe what is going on during a math session

What a MAP Session Feels Like 5:56

or what someone would be experiencing? And we can use me as an example. We could, you know, walk, we could walk through, you know, my symptom pattern or what that looked like. Or we could just go through. I know you've worked with, some thyroid patients or wherever you want to take us. Kind of. Let's go a little bit more granular. Yeah. So let's talk about what the mat method is. Like I said, it is, method is a technique for advanced neural retraining. We do the sessions one on one over zoom video conference.

Just the same way we're doing this conversation. There is no other equipment needed, right? It is not equipment based. Right. So we like to say it's the latest energy psychology technique. It doesn't really matter. You know what your experiences with energy psychology techniques. You don't have to believe in anything. All you have to do is just be willing and open to the methods and what it might offer you and have the the ability to connect to the internet and as you zoom video conference. So we do this, we do the sessions over, over zoom video conference.

Every person needs to be initiated to the method. That just means that you watch a 15 minute video. You come to your first session. Usually the first session is one hour long and we work with a painful emotional memory, a trigger for anxiety, or maybe a phobia, right? Kind of a, a smaller emotional topic. During that session, I finish initiating your subconscious mind to the mat method. So there's a few preparatory steps that we do takes about seven, ten minutes and then that's it. It only has to be done once.

After that, your subconscious mind is receptive to the instructions that we provide during a session. The instructions are verbal. You are awake and alert during the session, right? This is not hypnosis. This is not you know, this is more like meditation. It's more like a directed meditation, maybe. And maybe you can talk about what you're you know, what it feels like to be a client in a session. But what we in every session, we pick a topic. So you come with a few ideas, I help you to choose one.

And that topic becomes, you know, it helps us to structure the session every round of instructions I give you is based on you holding a particular memory or experience in your mind, just gently. And then I'm giving your subconscious mind instructions for neutralizing the painful emotions around this memory, around all the associated memories, with changing the limiting beliefs that were created or reinforced by this experience to more positive, empowering beliefs. Right? And working with all aspects of the personality as well.

So it is, I think, a very easy technique for people to engage with, because all you have to do is be able to hold a memory in your mind and sit quietly and breathe with your eyes closed, like that's it, right? If you can close your eyes and, you know, focus on something and and just stay open, right? Your subconscious mind is doing all the work. You don't have to consciously do anything. So. Yeah. Right. Exactly. To many people. Yeah. Yeah. That's my it was my experiences. I had done eMDR, I had done lots of different, techniques.

I did a little bit of Annie Hopper's dress, which was a full time job to to do that. And like you said, some of these things that are better, well known, take up a lot of time are pretty costly. And I don't think that, I'm not saying they're not effective, but I'm a busy mom, you know, busy working. And, I was interested. I got referred by a practitioner that I really, really trust our friend Kathy Moore. And I remember asking you, you know, like, well, what can I expect? And really, I think it's individualized, like you said, like, it really depends on what you have going on.

You know, I started with the symptom of, you know, fatigue. I just was like, tired. And I would have really good months and then, you know, months that I really wouldn't feel well. And I, and I just did everything physically. I could think up and I feel like I know a lot. And so I put a lot of, things into practice. But I, I know that emotional peace was, was something that I like. Again, I tried eMDR, I tried this, so I'm like, why not? Right? I mean, like, why not? I didn't have any expectations.

I was almost doing this more as a favor for Kathy because Kathy is just such a sweetheart. I'm like, okay, I'll give it a try. But I as we've we talked about in previous podcast, I just got really profound results. And it was, for me a directed meditation. I didn't actively have to I didn't have to get into a meditative state. It's almost like I my brain just started peeling off layers of the onion,

Thyroid Stress, Cell Danger Response, and Emotional Layers 11:14

just getting deeper and deeper on what was the problem. But I had never experienced any sort of therapy, tapping anything that really was, getting at root causes, but I really wasn't aware of, but yet changed my physicality so dramatically. And maybe you can kind of talk about, that with a specific thyroid patient and how that affected her and her labs. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like you said, it's so individualized. Right? So we are, you know, your physician, your practitioners, you know, your the people that you've chosen to work with on your health issues.

They're handling, like all of the functional medicine, you know, right. They're handling that piece. Where I like to help people is, you know, if they aren't working with their mind as well, and they're leaving out a really important piece, right, 100%. Yes. Well said. Yeah. And so this technique is complementary to anything else that you are already doing. Right. It's not instead of it is not competing with it is in addition to. And I do believe that it accelerates the healing process because when we have subconscious layers of stress, which we all do, right, we all do.

We may feel like, oh, I'm not, you know, you may not recognize it, but that is definitely there because of your previous life experiences. There are like layers. You talked about layers of the onion. Yeah. So it's like layers of the psyche, right? That where there are subconscious layers of stress and these are contributing to a stress response. Right. And we know right from your wonderful book that you wrote with Doctor Eric Belk about that, you know, part of the contributing, factor, you know, here with thyroid health is an ongoing stress response that's sort of relentless, right?

That informs the cells that we are in a danger. We are in danger. We are under threat, that we must go into kind of a hibernation state. Right. And that means that they're going to make less energy, they're going to be less productive. Whatever their job is, they're not going to, you know, they're going to go quiet, right? They're just hunkering down, waiting for this, this stress, this danger, this threat to pass. Well, what I want people to understand is that when we talk about stress, we're not just talking about financial stress.

You know, relationships stress, your health stress. Right. We are talking about contributors to stress that are unknown to you, that are in the subconscious mind. And that is where this method can be effective. So for example, so every person I work with, it's it their issues of course, are that are individual. Right. Because everyone has a different life history. So I'll talk about my, my client Melissa, who came to see me. She didn't really know what it was. She was nutritional therapy practitioner herself, much like you.

She felt she had done everything to try to address her thyroid health, everything she knew, lifestyle, diet, exercise, meditation, all the things. But she's still, still having, problems. And she doesn't want to have to keep taking the medications and medications are becoming less effective for her. She's in her mid 50s, no significant trauma history, but there were topics that came up for us around her life that were very interesting and very unique to her. She had been living overseas. She followed her husband, and his job, taking them overseas.

She'd spent a lot of time in foreign countries where she wasn't fluent in the language. You know, she's she wasn't rich at first, but, you know, became more fluent, of course, the longer that they stay there. But there was an impact to her personality, not being able to express herself or be well understood for many years. Not just language, but culturally as well. I mean, that is a topic that we cleared for her, you know, in addition to more of the, common issues like relationship stress or stress around her husband's cancer diagnosis, you know, and having to be the support for him.

Right? So the caretakers often have a great deal of stress, a great deal of burden that they carry. So, you know, in addition to all of those things, you know, she had this particular life experience that had created a layer of stress for her. It wasn't something she was dealing with currently in her life. It was in the past. But by clearing that, you know, it made a difference for her. And I think we I think I worked with her maybe 6 or 7 times, and within that time she was able to resolve all kinds of things like back pain and, you know, just like gut motility.

Her digestion improved, her hair shedding slowed. Right. She was very happy about that. But then when she went and saw a practitioner and had her labs redone, she saw that all of her thyroid hormones were coming back into her normal range. Right. And this hadn't been true for years. And you'll and you can hear her whole story on my podcast. She says this was during one of the most stressful periods in my life, right? My husband's cancer had come back. We were talking about moving back to the States, a huge international move, right?

Big upheaval of their life. And yet her thyroid hormones were looking better than they had in, I don't know, in years. So that's just an example, right? Of the things that you're not going to be dealing with with your practitioner, but we can deal with in mat method sessions and that can start to move the needle. Right? That's so interesting. I think the first piece about having having a memory, having a trauma, and I don't know exactly how Gabor Mat, one of our favorites, he's a medical doctor.

I don't know how he he exactly says it, but he says it's not the trauma that's important. It's what happens to you from the trauma inside. So one person will go through a traumatic event and it won't affect them, but another person will and it will deeply affect them. And so there are levels of that. So something that maybe someone thinks like, how can that be traumatic? But yet it actually impresses quite a trauma. And maybe we don't think of it that way. And you know, there's trauma with a big T and then there's little traumas.

But what I think about the Mat method is that it doesn't erase your mind. You're I mean, you're not you're not losing any pieces. You're not being hypnotized, but yet you're getting. For me, it was like a new perspective, a new way of looking at your body, a new way of looking, at something that happened and reframing it. Maybe like the phrase of our perception is reality. So maybe the way I perceived it was causing so much stress to my body, and it doesn't erase the memory. But yet I now have peace with it.

And I know during the session will rate a memory like how disturbing or how much stress this brings you. Okay, it's a nine when we start, and then we'll go through and we'll do the math session. And then you go back and you hold that memory in your mind's eye and your whole being feels, perceives it differently. Like now doesn't affect every piece of me. And again, this where we started. This affects how your body sees different foods, how your body perceives it. It's that cell danger response where you're in battleship mode, and if your body's perceiving things as harmful and you're fearful about them, that will come out as food sensitivities and different things.

And perhaps, you know, like the different manifestations in your body. And again, this doesn't supplant any medical care. We are not saying this supplants, you know, medical attention for any of those things. However, it can be an additional tool. Right. And a very powerful one. So let's go back to the the cell danger response is that, you know, we write about that in our book, The Thyroid Debacle, about how, you know, that's your body's protective mechanism when your body's under threat, whether that be from chemical stress, microbial stress, something is making your mitochondria sense that we got to go in this lockdown mode.

And you're right about how that can manifest as energy production problems. Because when we get the flu, our body wants us to be tired in bed, you know, having no sex drive in, really. You know, that's what it's supposed to do. But when when we don't come out of the cell, danger response because of all these stresses and emotional stress is a huge one. It's just a huge adding to the allostatic load and it's pushing down. If we get rid of like our gluten sensitivity, we start offloading the stress.

We get rid of infections, we get rid of, you know, heavy metals. We correct our nutritional deficiencies. If we still have that emotional stress weighing down your cell danger response is going to stay on. And that's kind of like the final frontier of people. And my experience and myself, especially coming from the Patrick Treaty, I didn't want to talk about emotions like, I'm good, I'm fine. You know, everybody, everybody goes through things.

Melissau2019s Thyroid Improvement Story 21:08

Everybody, you know, has this problems. But that can definitely be that last piece or just one of the pieces that if you don't address that part, it can still keep you stuck. And that sounds like Melissa's story. Melissa really worked hard on everything in my story as well. But when you keep your cells feeling like they're in danger, they're going to stay in that cell. Danger response. And again, this paper by Robert Inovio, you can look at what's called the metabolic features of the cell. Dangerous plants. Absolutely excellent paper.

But you don't address that stress that emotional stress piece. And you're going to be going in circles. That's what I found a lot. That's why I'm like, we have to have you on this talk on the series for a Doctor Talks on thyroid because often people with thyroid disease, it's not just one thing, it's the allostatic load. When you talk about that in the book, it just weighs down. So an entire chapter in part three is devoted to addressing emotional stress. And of course, I highlight the map method in there because, again, just nothing really move the needle for me.

As much as that final continuing to pull off the emotional stress and, and I will say this is that it wasn't one session and it's all, you know, it's really just let's go back to peeling the onion, peeling the layers and things that I didn't even think were affecting me, like, oh, that happened when I was a kid. Like, how can you know? Like they significantly just addressing them, reframing them, having a neural retrain meant just things get better. Like my just gets better. But I feel like it's always a process.

I feel like you can get to a certain, you can get to a certain level. And then perhaps something might come back up. But the last thing I want to mention is that when I'm explaining the method to people, they sometimes ask me, like, do I have to? If I have a very significant trauma, let's say trauma with a big team, do I have to explain this entire trauma to Madeleine or my math practitioner? Do I have to go through because that's very upset, like to relive it 100%? No. Like I remember when you would just say like I you know, I would say this event happened and I didn't even go into detail, but I hold it, you know, as much as I could to not cause any, you know, emotional or any, significant stress.

I would just hold that, I guess the string, just the part of it, you know, where I would just tug on it in my mind, and then I didn't have to go through it. I didn't have to, go into detail. It's like my mind was like, I got this, I got this, and we would go through it and neutralize it, in effect, where then I would think about it again. And it just doesn't bother me. It doesn't have the charge. It doesn't have the charge that that it did. And that is just helpful for moving through the world is not having so many things.

Excuse me, but piss you off like, oh, then this happened, and this happened. That guest I think that Alcoholics Anonymous calls it stinking thinking where like, if you bring up something in your mind, it makes you really angry. It's like these are some of the things that map has helped me with too. Just moving through some of those little, little traumas or little things to just be more present, and just be more focused. So I said a lot, there's there anything that you want to comment on about cell danger or anything?

Yeah. No, I just want to really echo what you said, right? That this is a method where you do not have it's not talk therapy. You do not have to talk through it. You do not have to tell me even what the memory is. It's helpful if I, you know, if you can give me some kind of description, like if the memory had a title, what would it be, you know? Right. Like that. That much? That's all I really need to know. What I really need to know is how does it make you feel? How does a memory make you feel?

And how strong are those emotions from you? From zero to a ten? That's all I need to help you start to work with some memory. So what is very nice about this is that for people who have experienced eMDR, which can be kind of a rough process that requires vividly rehashing painful memories, this is a very gentle process. By comparison, do you want to talk about the difference since you have done both together? So with the eMDR, it was the instruction by the practitioner to recall vividly what, a trauma, entailed, almost like every detail, almost trying to go back and even more so try and remember details that I may have even forgot or purposely forgot.

So, and then you have some sort of I had in my hands the device that would vibrate back and forth, and you'd and then it was just the session in of itself was so traumatic for me that I'm like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. Like, it wasn't I just wasn't getting anywhere. And I, I know that eMDR has wonderful studies. I'm not saying that anyone should hang up their eMDR, you know, aspirations, but it just we're just all different. And things work for other people. But I thought, man, if this is the way that I have to clear out some emotions, this is this is just not this is just not for me.

And I just wasn't I wasn't getting the, blessing of the charge of the, of the event. So you go through it and you're supposed to have like a where now the event isn't as traumatic, like,

How MAP Differs from EMDR and Other Therapies 26:48

you know, in your neural system, but that wasn't really working for me. So then again, when I found Madeleine in the map method, it was, you just have to give a title ish. Like, it's very, very much, you know, your privacy is so respected, that, you know, Madeleine, in the map method, go to her podcast. You talked about your podcast, flourish with neural retraining. Yes. And lots of episodes on there. You can just hear different stories and and not just my perspective, but I thought it was just a brand new, approach that didn't set it, didn't, you know, bring me down to get me up like I had to didn't have to take two steps forward to take, you know, to support backwards to get forward.

It just propelled forward. Yes, yes. Because we are harnessing the power of your own subconscious mind. Right. So there's no need for a device for bilateral stimulation. There is no need to have you, you know, bring to mind every granular detail as long as you can get your mind in that neighborhood of that, that memory, whatever it is, the big trauma, you can, if you're willing to let your mind rest on any aspect of it, you know, just the very before the it actually began or after anything. Right?

Just to get the subconscious mind the right neighborhood, then we can treat the memory and the the importance of this is that we're not just treating that one memory. We are treating the related memories. Yes. So that's the other thing about the map method. Your subconscious mind connects things. All memories are associated to other memories. And so when we can have you focus on a particular memory, then the associated memories can be neutralized as well. And so that is why people can achieve very quick and easy, improvements, you know, in, negative mood states even, you know, many people come to see me, not even about chronic health issues.

You know, they they want to work with anxiety. They want to work with depression. They want to work with anger issues, phobias. Yeah. So, all of these patterns can be alleviated simply and effectively with this, with this method. And like you said, it's not a miracle. It's not like everything gets better after one session. No, I'm not saying that right. It is a process. It it does take, it's the cumulative effect of several sessions. People start to feel changes, like a physical level kind of is.

That's kind of like the third level of improvement. The first level is usually emotional level. The second level is like behavioral mental. And then we get to the physical level. It just seems to be, that we have to resolve more of the layers of the onion before we start to see improvements at a physical level for most people. Everyone, of course, is individual, but that's that's my general, and what I've generally seen, and I will say this, is that I've been working with you for almost two and a half years and that, I had some neck pain and it came out of nowhere and I was like, okay, I'm going to go through my Rolodex of what could be causing my neck pain, you know, physical, chemical, what is it?

Hormonal. And I did everything that I could think of to help with this acute neck pain. And then after doing that for like two weeks, I thought, I'm going to set up a session with Madeline. And so, you know, you started by asking me like, what's going on right now? And I talked about how my my aunt was, dying from cancer. And you're like, well, that's pretty significant. And I'm like, no, no, I, I'm fine. I, I'm totally fine. I'm doing what I can. And, and then we started talking about it and like, I don't think I'm fine.

I actually think that, you know, there there might be a chance that this pain, because your body is always talking to you, that's that is just revolutionary information for me is my body's always trying to communicate. And we went through the session and, you know, we talked about how I probably was putting a little bit too much pressure on myself and that, you know, like I'm doing my best with trying to help her. And lo and behold, the next day I woke up. I had zero neck pain. I mean, you know, so I'm again, I'm not saying this is a replacement for anything medical treatment at all.

That is not what I'm saying. But wow, that was very, that was a very good example of how our body it it's speaking to us in that, when I really processed out that emotion and I started to deal with it healthy instead of, I'm totally fine. How there was a resolution of my symptoms again, like, I didn't expect I really didn't expect it because I'm like, this is physical. There's something going on here. But, just very interesting. It was on the side of my body that has to do with the female energy, too.

So, I think that that kind of tells on what you said about when we're, peeling layers and how we can get. I mean, there was a lot of sessions before that session could occur. And, but I, I do think the the map method is definitely something that, it's a powerful tool. So, is there anything parting thoughts? Do we miss anything for, like, a person who's just getting to know the map method? I know we mentioned your podcast, Madeleine, which I would encourage people to go listen to. But what else? Anything else.

And then to close with how do we find you? You know that that would be important information too. Yeah. So so I want to just say, you know, you mentioned that we've been working together for two and a half years, right? And so that sounds like forever probably to a lot of people. I want I just want people to understand, like we've probably met, I don't know, a dozen times. We have probably only a dozen times. Yeah. This is not the kind of thing. Right? Again, this is not the kind of thing where I'm seeing you every week, you know?

You know. So it may be every couple of weeks in the beginning. It may be every other week. After a while, you know, things are good.

Using MAP for Ongoing Healing and Where to Find Madalyn 32:58

You just schedule a session when something comes up, just like you mentioned. Right? I'm having this issue. I've tried all my tools. Right? And it's not going away. Let's explore. You know, let's explore what working with the mind can do for me. And I you know, I do, I so I just I guess my parting thought here is for the person who has been doing everything right and still and cannot understand why they are still feeling so poorly. You know, including people with thyroid issues. It is worth working with the mind, right?

Because when you have a chronic health issue, you want your mind working with you, not against you. Yes. And with the Mat method, we can start to uncover and identify. So there's one thing we didn't talk about. Like while I'm giving your mind instructions or whatever topic we are working on, whether it's hair shedding or it's a trauma memory, right. You know, we can start from, there are a lot of different entry points so we can work with physical symptoms. We can work with, negative thoughts that you can't stop or, like, worry patterns.

Right. As I'm giving you those instructions, your subconscious mind is starting to reveal its programing. Things start to come up for you and your mind as you're sitting there and you're kind of meditative state. And after I, you know, give you a few instructions, a few minutes, I'll ask you. Okay. So Doctor Kelly, what came up during that round and then you'll start telling me I had this memory, I had this image, I had this thought, this word came up. I felt pressure here. Right. Whatever it is that your your subconscious mind telling you what the associations are and when you're working with, an experienced map practitioner, they can read, you know, those data points and help you decide.

Okay, so I see where we need to go next. Okay. This is what we'll work on in the next round. And so this is how we move through a session. So you don't have to come knowing at all. Right. You know what what the root causes are. No. That's what is uncovered in this session. All you have to know is how is how is it affecting you? Now? I have this neck pain, you know, I have heart palpitations. I, you know, my thyroid health isn't where I want it to be. Yeah, yeah, I think that's important, because you're right.

I did say about two and a half years. But I will say after two sessions, which surprised me. And it's not, you know, it's not the guarantee of after two sessions, but two sessions with you. And I was like, my life is change, my life is changing. And I don't get any kickbacks from, from, you know, people like like, okay, what's the catch, Doctor Kelly? I'm like, nothing. I want you to feel as good as you can possibly feel. And working with your mind again. Super important. So yes, it's been a relationship for two and a half years.

I very, often think it's very strange. I've never met you in person because, like, you're one of my favorite people on the planet, but I drop off for six months, and then I'll come back on because something, you know, something's not right. Like the neck pain example. So, no, this is not like a talk therapy where we really don't, have any perceived conversations other than these podcasts that I drag you on to do. I'm like, let's do another one. But you're right. It it, can be fast and effective, and you can use it and you can use it when, when you want to use it.

So, very, very good point of that. And so lastly where, where do we find more information about you. Yeah, yeah. So if you're interested in learning more I do recommend going to my website. And that is mind remap MRP for health.com. So mind remap for health that com. And then you also mentioned the podcast which you know you can find on your favorite podcast player. And that is flourish with neural retraining. Lots lots and lots of episodes there you can hear Doctor Kelly. And I talk about this, in another podcast episode there.

So, you know, and you can hear Melissa's story as well. She was episode 49. Melissa and her thyroid improvements. So, yeah. Great. And then one last point is that, in between sessions, there's an option for people who've been initiated to the map, which I was just telling you before we started recording, is that you can listen to these sessions and on your own for free if you've already been. Again, initiated. And those are extremely powerful. I yesterday, like I listened to two of them and had really, really great results with those for free.

So, you know, if, if, you know, cost is something we're always, you know, we have a lot of things that we're shelling money out for. But, some of those in between sessions with the map method, can be can be great and again, absolutely free. So, Madeline, thank you so much for your time today. Your expertise is for what you're doing. I hope that this map map method grows and grows because of the positivity that I've seen. And, what you're doing for for people and their health is just extraordinary.

So thank you so much for your time today. Oh, I appreciate being here, Doctor Kelly. All right. Take care.