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Tom McCarthy is a husband, father, author, speaker, entrepreneur, and investor who has owned businesses in the training, software, financial services, and restaurant industries. Tom’s clients in his training business include some of the worlds leading companies such as Cisco Systems, Microsoft, Salesforce, Wells Fargo, and MetLife. His latest book,... Read More
Jason Prall is a health educator, practitioner, author, speaker, & filmmaker. In 2018, his independent research and experience led him to create "The Human Longevity Project”, a 9-part film series that uncovers the true nature of chronic disease in our modern world. He’s currently finishing his first book titled, “The... Read More
- What similarities and differences they noticed between these various Blues Zones cultures that attributed to longevity in Sardinia, Italy; Okinawa, Japan; Ikara, Greece; Loma Linda, California; and Nicoya, Costa Rica.
- How our culture around food in the USA has changed and affected our lives.
- Why our lifestyle as a society in the USA isn’t sustainable.
- The factors that play in the decline of human health, love, interaction, and longevity.
- Why understanding what mitochondria and microbiota are: What guides their function plus why they are key to your health and longevity.
- What is known and not known about genetic expression and how that affects your metabolism when you eat certain foods.
Tom McCarthy
I’m very excited for our next guest. This is someone I just met recently, but I can’t wait to dig into his work because as someone who just turned 60 years old, this guy’s got some great information that I need to learn. And his name is Jason Prall. He is a filmmaker, he’s a health educator, author, speaker. He’s done some amazing work around longevity, and even did a nine-part film series that you have to watch. I just started watching, by the way, Jason, the first session, which was amazing. But it’s all about how we can live longer and not just live longer. A lot of people go, I want to live longer, and then they’ve got aches and pains and they’re not very healthy. That’s not what anybody really wants is just live another day being sick and achy. But what you’ve delved into, which I really love, is like, how can we live longer, but be pain-free, be healthy, be vibrant, not having to take prescription medication. So I’m really excited, and I know everyone watching is really excited to learn from you today. So, Jason, thanks for being on today.
Jason Prall
Yeah. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure. And you said it. That’s just it, that was my big thing around this longevity discussion is, why do we keep focusing on the number of years and when really, all we’re concerned about is the moment, right? Like, that’s really what we’re always in the moment of now, and so it’s a completely different perspective. And so, I’m glad you mentioned that.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. And I really am looking to learn from you because I’m always, as I grow older, trying to reverse even just the stereotypes I have in my head of what it means to be old and, you know. Because we go, oh yeah, I’m a little achy today, almost because, well, no, I don’t want that in my head. I destroy those beliefs, but I want to learn more from you on how to just thrive as I go through hopefully the next 40 or 50 years of my life at 60 years old.
Jason Prall
Yeah, and that’s just it, right? Like, it’s just like in business or whatever your focus is, if you’re gonna master it, if you’re gonna get really good at it, a lot of times, we’ve got to break down our own beliefs, we’ve got to examine our own beliefs, we’ve got to shift our perspective, we’ve got to reframe our thinking, right. Because we often get caught in these patterns of thinking that you mentioned, that are really given to us, that as we get old, it means we get worn down, we get achy, we get old and we get kind of crotchety, and we don’t, right. There’s this like, demise that comes with aging. But so often we’re not reflected back to us, in our culture, anyway, the beauty that comes with aging, the wisdom that comes with aging.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
The gift that is the new perspective that life has this finite time, right. Which is not something that most of us think about when we’re 18 or 19, right.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
So there’s real gifts in the beauty of growing older. And I think there’s a lot of misconceptions that also come with growing older.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. And one thing I was joking with you about when we first met was, you’re a young guy. Why are you so focused on this right now? You’re still in your 30s, right? You’re?
Jason Prall
I’m 40. I’m just over the hill, yeah.
Tom McCarthy
Oh, you just turned 40. Oh, you’re really getting old there, Jason.
Jason Prall
Yeah, yeah.
Tom McCarthy
But you’ve been focused on this for a few years now and I know you’re, you’ve been a medical practitioner and then really started focusing on this longevity project, human longevity. What was it about longevity that got you, that caught your interest, that made you at a young age, a guy that’s still healthy and vibrant naturally, because you’re young, you take great care of yourself, you do lots of great things. I think you said you have a one-year-old son now, right?
Jason Prall
Yep, that’s right.
Tom McCarthy
You’re just getting going here. But what made it so attractive for you to delve into this?
Jason Prall
Well, there’s a lot of things. I mean, I think one of them is the perspective that I see in our culture with longevity and with aging, right. And some of it comes out of Silicon Valley and this tech idea that we can just inject things and implant things, and that’ll somehow get us over the finish line of 100 years old or living forever, or that disease, aging is a disease that we need to cure. And so a lot of it was to combat some of that sort of narrative. But then the other part is that there really is some wisdom that we can gain from studying people that live a long time. Right?
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
So, you said it perfectly. I’m fairly young, and so it’s hard for me to espouse what it takes to make it to 100. I’m only 40, so it’s pretty arrogant. And I don’t mean to deny anybody that has opinions about what it takes to live a long time, but for me, I wanted to go ask the people. I wanted to go ask somebody who was 105, who’s 94, whatever, and get their take on what it means to be healthy, how they got there, what their thoughts are on all this. And that would inform me, hopefully, so that I can live a little bit wiser even in my youth. But at the same time, I think we forget that in order to make it to 100, it takes 100 years. So what I do today matters to make it to 100 or 120 or whatever we have our sights set on.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Prall
So what I do, and I would actually argue that the most important years, when it comes to long-term health, are what happens between essentially preconception, before we’re even here with our parents, and probably seven, eight, nine years old. So that is really what sets the foundation of our thoughts, our beliefs, our bodily systems and how they’re gonna function. Essentially the epigenetic triggers or switches really get ingrained at that period of time. And so, sometimes, if things are operating in a sort of maladaptive way, because of our experiences and our environments when we were young, then we, it may take 10, 20, 30 years for us to investigate, rewire, you know.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
Re-pattern some of these things. So getting to an old age in a healthy way can be a multi-decade process, right.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
It’s not as something that I just instantly discover.
Tom McCarthy
That’s awesome. Now, what if someone is just discovering your work and they’re, let’s say 60 years old. Is there still hope? Now, I feel like I’m healthy already, but if I weren’t, is there still hope from, for someone in their 60s or 70s at least to extend or recover, or even recover maybe some of their ability to live not just longer, but healthier and more vibrantly?
Jason Prall
Absolutely. And there’s plenty of examples. In fact, when I was a practitioner working with people on a more regular basis, I often worked with people that are in their 50s, 60s, and 70s, and some of the things that they were dealing with on a chronic illness, chronic illnesses or chronic issues, chronic symptoms, they were quickly resolved and quickly remedied. So the body has an amazing capacity to regenerate, even in our advanced ages. And even then, no matter what our potential is, right. Our health potential may not be as high as we get to those ages, but still, it’s greater than what it is today if we just do the right things, if we shift some things to be more in balance.
So we can do a lot of things to bring ourselves into alignment with how our body is gonna operate. And I think for, without really diving into a whole lot of those, one of the things that I can say right now is, especially as we get older, the number one thing we need to do is engage life. Right. So, this is something that I think there’s this interesting thinking that you kind of alluded to, which is okay, I’m getting older, 60, 70, you know, there’s no hope, right. It is what it is, right. And you see this a lot with old people. My grandparents were this way. They’re so funny that way. But that can get into the sort of negative slide of just like, okay, I’ve done it, I’ve lived my life, I can’t really recover from here.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
If we switch that thinking, if we reframe that and instead reengage with life, whether that be with our passions, playing games, engaging with our grandchildren or children, walking, picking up an instrument for the first time. I met a lady that was 94 years old who picked up the violin at 92 and was learning the violin at 92. And every Wednesday, she’d go and join her little group class to play the violin. Now, I played the violin when I was younger, so I have a sense for what good violin skills are. And when she got on and started playing, she was awful. She was absolutely terrible, but it wasn’t the point.
Tom McCarthy
She was playing.
Jason Prall
Exactly. And she was enjoying something. It’s music, which is speaking of energy and healing, music itself is healing. Through sound, we can actually infuse energy, infuse intention. This is the whole idea of chanting, of singing in churches back in the day. You know, this is, there’s profound healing in music itself. Tuning forks are used, right, and gongs are used. The didgeridoo was used to heal broken bones in indigenous cultures.
There’s all kinds of ways that we can look to for music itself as healing. So she’s doing a lot of the things right there. She’s working her brain in a new way. This is massive, right. And she’s actually fine motor skills with her fingers on the strings. There’s a lot of little things, nuances that we can point to that are actually improving her health or extending her life. So, it’s stuff like that that we can do. The main thing is not to give up on life and to continue to engage as we get older. That is massive when it comes to that last 30 years.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. I love how you broke down playing the violin and all the benefits. Like you said, okay, I’m playing a violin. No, you’re getting a vibration from it. The fine motor skills, the passion and excitement of learning something new. And also just the stimulation of the brain learning something new. Like, so many things from one little activity that you, oh, I’m just playing a violin. No, way more than that. You know, with my father-in-law who passed away at 90, didn’t make it to 100. But it was interesting. I noticed that, because he was this vibrant guy and, you know, former FBI agent and, you know, kind of a, you know, a tough guy and never went to a doctor. And, but the, when I saw him make really his kind of downfall was, there was something happened in his mind and it was where he started to lose confidence.
Jason Prall
Right.
Tom McCarthy
And so then he would start, you know, shuffling his feet and looking down. All the things he never probably ever did before in his life. Maybe some little thing happened or I don’t even know, or he saw someone else said, hey, you need to be careful and look around. And when he lost his confidence, he lost his health and it went pretty quickly. And so one of the things I, and I always believed in that, like, you need a purpose, you need a passion and you need a little inner swagger to go through life too, right? You need that confidence, and when that was gone, he probably passed away within about six months, six, seven months. And, you know, lived to 90 so you can’t complain, but there was probably a little more life in him, too.
Jason Prall
Well, and this is what’s interesting, right. And not to put a sort of morbid twist on this, but what’s interesting when you talk to people that are in their 90s and 100, and you even see reports of this. There was a famous scientist in Australia, I believe, who was in his late 90s, or maybe he was over 100, maybe 104. So he was very old. And he was just done. He was ready to call it. He was still alive, but he’s like, look, I’m done. And he went to Europe to have medical euthanasia. And so, I’m not here to debate the morality of any of this.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
But what’s interesting is that when you talk to people that are in those advanced ages, there seems to be this universal reality that there’s this acceptance of like, I’m at the end, like it’s okay, I’m ready to go. And it’s, so it’s interesting. I guess when you think about some of the people and the dialogue that’s going on around longevity, that, oh, we want to make it to 120, 150, I’m gonna be 200.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
And I find it’s very, this is why I want to talk to these people. A lot of them that I spoke with, they were saying, eh, it’s up to God. I don’t know, whatever. You know. It’s this, they don’t care. They’ve lived a good life. There’s always a time to go, right. Like, a lot of their peers and a lot of their friends, sometimes even their children have gone before them.
Tom McCarthy
Yes, yeah.
Jason Prall
So there’s an acceptance of finite reality, and I think that’s a really important point when it comes to life itself. We’re only here for a, we don’t know how long, right. So make today count. Do whatever you can today to show up as purposefully and as presently as you can in whatever you’re doing, even if it’s doing nothing, even if it’s this sort of meditation, just as present as you can be, right. So, there’s a really important teaching in death. There’s a really important teaching in this finite life and in this reality that we’re probably gonna get to, all get to this point where we’re ready to go.
Tom McCarthy
Absolutely.
Jason Prall
So until then, you know, engage with life as much as you can.
Tom McCarthy
That’s right. And then, so I love that you brought that up because we’re not saying if, you’re a loser unless you live to be 120. I mean, that’s ridiculous. We’re here for as long as our purpose needs us to be here.
Jason Prall
Exactly.
Tom McCarthy
And sometimes though, we still have work to do, but because we haven’t treated ourselves well, the body wears out, the mind wears out. And so that’s what I believe you and your work can help people with so that they still have choices. And, you know, there’s, I know several very famous religious, sacred people, spiritual people that, it didn’t matter how long they lived. I mean, they could literally choose the exact moment that they wanted to leave their body.
Jason Prall
That’s right.
Tom McCarthy
I mean, it was to that level, but while they were here, they were here, and that’s really what you’re espousing. You know, be here, do what you want to do, what you’re meant to do, and have choices of how long you’re gonna live and how healthy you’re gonna be, which is what I really love about your work. So let’s start diving in a little bit, and then also your new work, I’m really interested in, too. It’s indigenous medicine and how that can help us, too. So I want to cover that also. But tell us, what are some of the things for those people that are either younger or older and want to continue to be full of life. What can we do to have that energy and that passion and that health within us?
Jason Prall
Yeah. So, there’s a couple areas where everybody always wants to know, right.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
What does it take? What do I eat and what kind of exercise do I do, right? And of course, those are very important. But just in speaking with the people that I interviewed and spoke with that lived a long time, they didn’t have an exercise routine.
Tom McCarthy
They weren’t out running marathons every day.
Jason Prall
No, no. There was no leisure really, because their entire day was filled with activity. They were manual laborers. They were shepherds walking 30, 40 kilometers a day, right. There was so much work to be done manually. And in fact, one of the gentlemen I spoke with in Greece, in Ikaria, he said, you know, when I was young, the body was busy and the mind was still. The problem I see today is that the mind is busy and the body is still.
Tom McCarthy
Yes, yes.
Jason Prall
And I thought, my God, what a profound and simple way to think about this. And it’s so correct. So, whatever you got to do, generally move more, right. And it doesn’t have to be super vigorous. If you’re young, high intensity interval training, weight lifting, resistance training, fantastic stuff, right. Particularly when you’re young. As you get older, this is when I think we should start transitioning into a little bit more yin-type movements, right. So, a little bit more yoga and Tai Chi and Qigong, and just walking.
Tom McCarthy
Just walking, yeah.
Jason Prall
Walking is the only type of exercise that has actually been researched that is connected with longevity. So, it doesn’t mean that all the other stuff isn’t good, it’s all good, right. But see where you’re at. If you’re not able to do this sort of vigorous intense exercise because of, you know, you’re a little bit older or you’re maybe overweight, or you’ve got some injuries or what have you, then listen to your body and do things that are a little bit more at harmony with that.
Just continue to move and move a lot. So that’s the main thing with movement. With diet, this is a such a complex thing to describe, it’s hard for me to even cover, but I will say that the universal truths when it comes to diet are, one is when you eat. So, are you eating at 9 p.m., 10 p.m., 11 p.m., when the body’s naturally starting to wind down, digestion’s starting to decrease and your body’s switching modes? Because if you are, that’s not very good.
You’re gonna wind up with some problems and that’s over, over a long haul, that’s gonna create problems. So you want to be eating essentially when the sun’s up, that’s the best time. So sometime between generally 8 a.m. and 7 p.m., something like that, in this sort of 12-hour window. Now, there’s intermittent fasting and some of these other things that you might have heard about, and that’s all great too. So I’m not saying that’s the schedule, but eating three times a day.
I mean, it goes back to kind of like what our grandparents did, right, and our great grandparents. They ate three times a day, they ate pretty balanced meals. They ate organic generally, right, because my grandma didn’t have organic tomatoes. She just had tomatoes, you know. So, eating close to the earth, hopefully local if you can, real foods, right. Instead of buying the organic apple chips, buy the organic apple, right. Better yet, pick one off a tree near you if there’s such a thing, right. So you get the idea, right. Is, we’re going back to real food. And the other thing is to eat in a way that is in harmony with your body. So do you, are you eating with people? Are you eating in a good setting? Are you in happy setting, or are you stressed eating in front of a computer, right, late at night.
Tom McCarthy
Watching TV or reading a book or reading a newspaper while you’re eating, exactly.
Jason Prall
Exactly. Yeah. You can actually bring awareness to the digestive process and it will increase your digestive capacity. So a lot of people are taking digestive enzymes, they’re taking all kinds of supplements to help them digest food. Well, you can actually just slow down, bring awareness to the digestive process, smell your food. All of this is increasing the, all the various chemicals and hormones and processes that are required to digest that food. So slowing down, chewing your food thoroughly, right. I mean, this is simple stuff. It’s not rocket surgery and it’s also not sexy. So, people tend to disregard it and don’t really have a sense for how important it is, but this is the way to improve how food interacts with your body. And then from there, we can go many different roads, but that’s kind of the core with food. They ate beans and bread and wine and cheese and meats and, everything that we demonize, all these old people ate.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
And it’s because they ate differently. Their bread was organic grains that were grown, they’re ancient grains grow near them, processed at home in like a grinder that was usually moved by a donkey. And like, I mean, this is like, old school stuff back in the 1930s and ’40s, right. So, so–
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Prall
So they ate in a different way. So .
Tom McCarthy
the way you talked about the other things, you know, the way that they energize their body around food, their digestive system, the way that it was a joyful. So even if let’s say–
Jason Prall
That’s right.
Tom McCarthy
I don’t eat meat, for instance, but you can transform the energy of that food by the environment, the field around it, too. And it sounds like that’s a lot, that’s a lot of what they were doing. The food was cleaner. It was organic. There weren’t pesticides. That’s all great. But also just the energy that they consumed it, was very different than the energy that people consume today. One thing that you said that was really interesting, you said that, you know, the body was so busy, the mind was quiet. And one of the things that is happening, and I find myself, this is why I meditate for this exact reason.
I, over the years, have tended to think, and now I’ve changed my thinking, but I’ve tended to think that if I’m not thinking, if I’m not trying to figure things out in my head, it’s not gonna get done, it’s not gonna be brilliant, it’s not gonna be, you know, phenomenal, I won’t as much money. And that is, you know, that creates a lot of stress. And not only that, it burns up a lot of energy. You don’t have that energy then to move and do all these other things. And then it goes into your sleep and you don’t sleep as well. How can people, what do you, and maybe there’s some things from, you know, ancient wisdom here, or what are you saying or what are you recommending for people to kind of calm the mind?
Jason Prall
Yeah, I mean, so this is the thing, right. None of the people that I interviewed in Ikaria and Okinawa–
Tom McCarthy
No mediating.
Jason Prall
No meditating. They weren’t doing yoga, they weren’t doing breath work.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
So, this is the interesting thing about sort of the work that I did is that we can’t just look to them for all the answers.
Tom McCarthy
Yes.
Jason Prall
They have some wisdoms that we can carry forward, and because we live in a crazy, different reality here–
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, they didn’t have computers and cell phones and TV and–
Jason Prall
And traffic, and–
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Prall
Exactly. We’re hyper-stimulated, right. My phone, I have to turn off my phone for this interview because it’s gonna .
Tom McCarthy
Right, mine, too.
Jason Prall
So, right. So, this is the thing. So, we can recognize that and instead of saying, I’m gonna abandon this reality, we can say, okay, this is the reality. How can I shift this? How can I balance this out? And what you’re saying is perfect. Meditation, right, is a fantastic tool. Going for a walk in nature is a type of meditation. So, meditating is a perfect way. Simply becoming aware of what’s going on. So, just the fact that you said, if I wasn’t thinking, then I wasn’t gonna perform well. Well, that’s a recognition, that’s an awareness that you were eventually made aware of.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
And said, oh, this is how I’ve been operating. So sometimes just observing our, the way we operate, the way we think, the way we feel, the way we believe, that is a fantastic tool so that we can then make a decision to bring harmony to that pattern. So that’s a fantastic tool, just bringing awareness to things. Meditation is a great tool. I would say finding community is a really important topic, and that’s, that was universal among the people that we interviewed. And there’s something deeper with this idea of community.
And Harvard did a happiness study that spanned decades, right, and one of the things that they determined was that the thing that leads to happiness, the number one thing is community. And I take issue with this a little bit, which is to say that we’re making a lot of assumptions when we use the word community, right. We can actually be involved in a community and feel totally disconnected because for whatever reason, I don’t feel like I fit in. If you’ve ever gone to a conference and you’re like, oh man, this is just not my group, I don’t know how to get in there and connect, then you have a community around you, but you don’t really feel the connection, right, their support also.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
So there’s key factors within community that are really the key. One is connection. Do I feel connected to the people in this community, and two, do I feel supported by the people in this community? And that’s really what you’re looking for, is connection and support. So, it’s not to say community is good or bad. It’s really to say, do I feel connection and do I feel support. And you can feel that absent of community. Community is a great tool for that because it just sort of naturally brings that up for many people if it’s an aligned community.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
But I can sit here in meditation or even just doing work and be in tune. If I’m keen with my awareness, do I feel connected? Because you’re connected to people regardless of the physical connection, right.
Tom McCarthy
Right, right.
Jason Prall
You know this because you have parents and kids and brothers and sisters and people that you love, right. So, you could feel that connection without them being there. You can be connected to God or with a great mystery or that whatever you believe is something bigger than yourself. You can feel connected to the earth, right. Supported by the earth because it’s nurturing me constantly. I can feel supported by the sun, right? So there’s areas and things and concepts that we can feel connected to and supported by, so that’s the thing that we want to find. Where can I find connection? Where can I find support? And if I’m not feeling that connection and support, when I, let’s say should, when I feel like I should, then there’s probably something in my past, generally what we call childhood trauma, but it’s essentially something that happened with our attachment system.
Generally bonding with our parents or caregivers is the main thing that actually brings forth a pattern that makes us feel not safe in connection. So it’s very counterintuitive, but when we find connection, we actually feel, whoa, that’s not safe, let me disconnect. Because every time I felt that, it was unstable and it left. So I don’t want to get into that connected, that state. So sometimes we have to go resolve some of these childhood traumas or these patterns that we carry forward with us to protect us in our adult years.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, no, absolutely. I heard one of your talks where you were saying, I think you said that the average person, or maybe it was the average child, I’m not sure, will spend 95% of the day indoors, not out in nature, you know, getting sunshine, exercising, walking. Is that, was that right? Am I right on that?
Jason Prall
Yeah. And I don’t know the exact number, but it’s something like that. Yeah, and it was a study that was done. They just surveyed and they looked at, and that’s what they came up with. The crazy part about that is that what they looked at, they looked at prisoners and they actually get more time outside than the average child.
Tom McCarthy
That’s what I heard you say, yeah. That’s crazy.
Jason Prall
That’s nuts, right?
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
And here’s what’s, here’s what, going back to the connection piece or the community piece, think about prison. Prisoners, right, no matter what level of, that they’re at, they’re gonna be in some level of community in prison, right.
Tom McCarthy
Wow.
Jason Prall
And it actually provides safety. So they’re actually a support there. And there’s some level of connection. What’s the worst thing for a prisoner? It’s to get sentenced to isolation.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Prall
Solitary confinement away from other humans. Even though the people amongst them are, you know, not exactly the greatest people when it comes to having your back necessarily, right, like there’s some sketchy people all around you, and yet, you’d rather be with them than by yourself, right. So, there’s interesting things, I guess, in prison that we can learn from.
Tom McCarthy
That’s interesting. And there’s so much, there’s so many creative ways to connect. One of my friends is, was a POW in Vietnam. Captain Gerald Coffee, he’s a speaker and I’ve had the chance to work with him. And he was, they were put into solitary confinement. They were not allowed to even speak words out loud to someone that, you know, would be potentially within the same hearing distance of them.
But what they would do is they would tap Morse code, like little signals, like, you’re gonna be okay, we got you. And even just that little sense of feeling, because they were getting fed like 500 calories a day, it was like some ridiculous number, they had malnutrition, but they survived because of this connection. It pulled them through years and years of super harsh conditions, so.
Jason Prall
That’s amazing.
Tom McCarthy
I’m glad you’re talking about that.
Jason Prall
And, well, you’re hitting on something I think even a little bit deeper too, which is this idea of connection and also service, right. So, somebody needed to hear, you’re gonna be okay, but also somebody needed to be the one to recognize this is gonna benefit him if I tell him he’s okay. So if you’ve seen people, your friends or what have you that sometimes they just need a hug, right.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
They just need to be told, hey, I’m here for you, right.
Tom McCarthy
Love it.
Jason Prall
So that is something important not only for the person to receive it, for me to receive it, right. That’s gonna benefit my health and my longevity. But also when I’m giving it, right. So to be in service, right. I know you did a lot of work with Tony Robbins and his group. I mean, massive service, right. Like, there’s something so powerful in that. And you don’t, when you’re the one giving or you’re being of service, sure, it’s, you’re doing it for the other, but you’re, there’s also selfish motive, a positive aligned selfish motive in that, which is that God, it makes me feel good.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
There’s a reason that it makes you feel good, right, because it is aligned. And so it’s not a brain thing where you said, where it’s like this dopamine hit. It’s an internal feeling that comes from the heart, that comes from deep places within. So anytime you’re doing something like that, you know you’re on the right track, you know you’re delivering medicine, energetic medicine to all the cells in your body, right. So, there’s something powerful about being in connection to receive the support, and there’s also something really, really powerful about giving that support, about offering that support for others when they need it.
Tom McCarthy
That’s really beautiful. That’s one of the things I try and do in my day is to light up at least three people. And I’ve got a big network of people over all these years that I’ve met, but I’m just always thinking, okay, who can I throw a compliment out to today, or who can I just, you know, check in with and let them know how awesome they are, important they are. And you’re right. You know, I mean, I don’t do it so that they come back and go, hey, Tom, you’re so cool, you’re so awesome, thanks for thinking of me. I mean, that does happen, but it’s not why I do it. I do it just to, I think there’s an energetic bank account we all have, right–
Jason Prall
100%.
Tom McCarthy
And we, and a lot of people think, well, if I expend energy and give them some of my happiness or passion or joy, it’s gone. It’s not gone, right.
Jason Prall
Yeah, it’s just magnified.
Tom McCarthy
Because mirror neurons, number one, it feels like you just gave it to yourself anyways. And then just the energetic component of it that you talked about. It feels so good inside, you feel alive. You feel like you’re really doing good work here on this earth. So, that’s a great habit for everybody. And you know what, whether it makes you live longer or not, it’s just a really cool, awesome thing to do, so.
Jason Prall
Well, and to kind of hammer on that point a little bit more, Lynne McTaggart’s done some really great work with group healing.
Tom McCarthy
Sure, yeah.
Jason Prall
And one of the things that comes from her work and others is that when you have one person in a group that’s receiving sort of good intention or good healing energy, even if you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re just sending sort of what we might say today is positive vibes, right.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
Like if you’re sending good, healing thoughts and love and prayer to this person, and if everybody in the group is doing it to the one person, that person receives massive, massive healing benefits. More than just the sum of each individual putting it in. And what’s crazier is that the people offering the healing support also received healing benefit–
Tom McCarthy
Yes.
Jason Prall
That’s been greater than the person in the middle.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Prall
I don’t know how this stuff works. It’s wild, right. But we know that this does work, and we know that there’s something really powerful about this sort of group dynamic, right. We also see it in the Maharishi Effect, which is like this idea that, and there’s tons of data on this now, on the Maharishi Effect where you have a large group of people, let’s say a million people meditating on all the positive stuff, right. Love and compassion and peace and harmony. And they’re just meditating. This will send out a ripple of energy outward and actually have an impact on the surrounding population, right. And depending on how large this group is, is gonna be dependent on, it’s gonna depend on, or the healing effect will depend on how large the group is. And so we’ve seen this have effects on entire cities, on entire global networks of crime.
Tom McCarthy
Crime and weather, and all sorts of things, yeah.
Jason Prall
Exactly. So, this is something to really appreciate, and this is why we can really get into these groups, right, and come together. And on these certain days, you see this stuff online now where people are gathering to pray or to meditate or to whatever, and it’s like, that’s an opportunity for you not only to contribute to the external world as we perceive it, but also to our internal world, right. Because there is no difference. There is no disconnection. They are one in the same. And so, I think it’s just more, the more we realize this stuff, then the more we can start to create habits for not only ourselves, but for everybody, and this is how we change the reality that is around us.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. I love it. And it’s an opportunity to be part of a community. With Lynn’s work, and she’s gonna be a guest on here, too, and she’s a friend of mine from the Transformational Leadership Council, but one of the things that, like you just said, she said, one of the best ways to heal yourself is to send healing to somebody else. And through doing that, you will heal faster. You’ll have a higher likelihood of healing. So really, really good stuff. Maybe one of the things that people that are coming to hear you and coming to the Global Energy Healing Summit can do to heal and get a sense of community is to find a group that, because there are groups that do healing meditations for different people.
And I know Lynn holds one that I’ve been part of on some different Mondays in the morning where we will have a, someone we know that is going through something and we meet together. And every time I do it, I can’t always do it because sometimes I’m scheduled there, but I always feel so good afterwards. And I’m not, or I’m not sending me any energy. No one’s sending me, but this whole group effect of sending energy out, you do feel super replenished, so–
Jason Prall
Yeah, yeah. There’s–
Tom McCarthy
A lot of what you’re talking about.
Jason Prall
Yeah. There’s something here that’s interesting too, because a lot of us will run these patterns of wanting to help the other and not, and they neglect themselves, right. Like, I . A lot of like healer or medical types will actually run this pattern where we’re trying to heal the rest of the world, but we neglect ourselves.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
So it’s something to watch out for. Are we trying to heal the other too much, because a lot of times, we want to make sure we’re focusing on ourselves, too. So I just wanted to sort of put that out there.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, absolutely.
Jason Prall
But there’s so much that we can do when we heal others, we heal ourselves. When we heal ourselves, we heal others, right. So, again, there is no difference, and sometimes to focus on the self is okay, right. So I just want to permission that because that’s really where a lot of this comes from anyway. The more that we fill our own cup up, the more we can then help others, right. So it’s really recognizing where you’re at in that process and not over-giving and trying to, and neglecting your own needs. But something else that I think is really important that you pointed out there is that when we’re working with energy healing, so to speak, right, whether we’re sitting in these group sessions or whether maybe you were working with a Reiki master or just any of the subtle energy stuff, sometimes when it’s, when we’re new at this, like for me, I was very sort of frozen, right. I couldn’t feel much on those sort of super subtle levels.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
So I always had an open mind, thankfully, so I never walked away going, oh, that didn’t work. But it’s something to look out for, that, and something to recognize that sometimes it’s gonna take some time to really crack ourselves open and sort of work these muscles of fine tune energy. This stuff is so subtle. And once you get to the subtle energy and you can feel the subtle energy, it gets even subtler and subtler and it can become so fine, so subtle, so precise, and it’s gonna take some time, perhaps. Some people just naturally have this super, super subtle feel and they, they’re so sensitive to this stuff. I wasn’t one of those. I was hardened because that’s how I was, I was raised in that way to not feel. I was an athlete so I was told not to get too high, not to get too low. I basically shut down all this feeling, and then I had to learn how to feel into the body. I had to learn to feel the subtle energy. And now, as I work with it, I can go, oh, whoa, holy smokes, I can feel that, I can feel the vibration, I can feel this sensation. And so, there’s a learning sometimes that goes along with this.
Tom McCarthy
No, that’s great. I was like you. I was an athlete, pushed through, grind it out, you know, if it hurts, just keep going, right. You know, don’t feel it, you know, the pain is. Just all those messages and that’s, this is really good stuff. I’m really glad you’re addressing this too, because a lot of people may have an energy healing session, like you said, and they’re like, yeah, I didn’t really feel anything.
Jason Prall
Yep.
Tom McCarthy
Or when I first was learning energy healing, like pranic healing, I’m like, eh, I don’t know, did I feel anything. And it is so subtle sometimes.
Jason Prall
Yep.
Tom McCarthy
But the way that we change often is very subtle. Like if you look back 10 years from now and look at the advances we’ve made, or even just the aging process, it didn’t happen like overnight, like all of a sudden I got pepper gray hair, right. It was subtle. Like, there was one hair. I was like, oh, that’s interesting, I got one gray hair. And now I’ve got more of them, but it was subtle. And that’s the way that a lot of healing works. I’m glad that you pointed that out. Hey, talk to us a little bit about your new work and your new project. And I know you’ve got a summit coming up too, that I hope everyone will check out. So talk to us a little bit about that.
Jason Prall
Yeah. The summit’s called Awaken the Healer Within, and it’s very much aligned with this type of thing, right. It’s physical health, it’s the mental and emotional health, it’s the spiritual awakening, it’s personal development, right, and I’m having you on it to talk about this, what it takes to do this–
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, I’m excited. Thank you.
Jason Prall
And to perform. And the idea here, really, is that we’re simply awakening to our true nature.
Tom McCarthy
Ah.
Jason Prall
So that’s really the core of this and how do we do that. And there’s a process and there’s things that come along with that. So that’s really what that summit’s about, and that’s gonna be in mid October. So, I hope to have as many people join us for that. The work I’m really focused on now that, you know, we’re filming our next docu-series, which is on ancient and indigenous healing methods. So we were up to the Himalayas at 13,000 feet, and we worked with some monks up there. We went into, worked in Peru with a shaman that does Wachuma, which is San Pedro, and does some other amazing healing type work. We went and studied Ayurveda with Dr. Lasant Vad, who is the guy who brought Ayurveda to the west 50 years ago.
Tom McCarthy
Nice.
Jason Prall
So the idea, and the the Maori are some of the people that I want to go study with as well. And the idea here is to really examine the methods that they use, but also the philosophy. What does it mean to be sick? Is there sickness or is there just imbalance? Is there just ignorance? Is there just a limited view, right, that we all hold. And what does it mean to heal? What is heal? I mean, a lot of us, I don’t know if we’ve really thought about this truly, like, what is healing actually.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
Because it’s, I think a little bit more sort of simple and also complex at the same time. And from my perspective and from what I’ve picked up from a lot of these indigenous groups and shamans and Ayurvedic masters is that it’s just energy that we’re holding onto. It’s just energy that’s not flowing through, right. So, essentially we get kind of caught in time. And this is what trauma is. If you’ve experienced trauma as a child, you know, you actually haven’t had the prefrontal cortex developed fully. Your brain is not fully developed. And so your limited capacity creates a situation whereby you got to figure out a solution to deal with the experience that is overwhelming your system, because you don’t have the tools.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
And so, because it gets caught in, we create this strategy and the strategy we take with us into our adulthood, which creates somebody like you. Super got to perform, got to succeed, got to turn on, right, and that’s not a bad thing. That becomes your gift as well. So the question is, can we dial back the mal-adaption, the maladaptive pattern so that it’s not running our lives, but rather we can turn on the skill, right. Because I had the same type of thing. One of mine is the perfectionist, right. So everything’s gotta be perfect, I gotta, and that’s a really maladaptive pattern if I let it run my life, but it’s a really good gift if I need to use it. And so these things get stuck in time, these energies get stuck and they get stuck in our mind, not our brain, but our mind.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
It gets stuck in sort of the body or the body mind, right.
Tom McCarthy
True.
Jason Prall
And the various levels of the body whether it’s the subtle level or whether it’s the etheric, the emotional body. We have these sort of layers, so to speak, energetically, and they can get caught. And so a lot of the work that they’re doing in these Eastern traditions, in the shamanic world, is actually working to free this stuff, to allow us to finally metabolize these stuck things that we’re holding onto.
Tom McCarthy
Wow.
Jason Prall
That move us through. And this is, if you think about Ayahuasca, this is what they’re doing. You’re vomiting this stuff out, the stuff that’s stuck. You’re pooping it out. This is what they’re doing. It’s a very kind of like, visceral way to do it.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Prall
But they’re using music, they’re using chanting, they’re using tobacco smoke, they’re using the medicine. They’re doing a lot of crazy advanced energy work.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
In literally magical ways, they can move, they can alter the weather. Like, they use the elements, the wind and the fire and the, they’re magicians in sort of the earth energies. And so they’re using that to move these things that are stuck within us, to bring us into our bodies so that we can recognize our true nature. And that’s it. That’s really what they’re doing. And as we recognize our true nature in a more holistic, more integrated way, then the diseases don’t exist. These depressions and the anxieties don’t exist because we recognize who and what we really are. And this is the same thing with Ayurveda and Chinese medicine, is that there’s just a way of bringing us into our body, fully embodied, integrated, aligned, awake. And when we do that, all the stuff falls away. And we don’t have to try, and we don’t have to manifest anything.
We’re just in the flow, right. A leaf flowing down a river doesn’t try to manifest its way to the end. It doesn’t try to fight its way to the end either. It just does nothing. It just rests, right. And that’s when we’re fully awake. This is the sort of the enlightened, the Bodhicitta, the Satori, this is the sort of fully lightened experience, is just full rest.
We’re not doing anything, and everything is just flowing in perfect harmony. There is no judgment, there is no, right. And so that’s kind of the end path, right. But along the way is the journey, the realizations, the awakenings, the joy, the sadness, and all the emotions that go within.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
So, the key is can we feel these things. Can we metabolize them and recognize that I can sit in wellbeing and be angry. I can sit in wellbeing and be happy. I can sit in wellbeing and be sad, right, and lonely, and all these different things, but it comes from a core of well-being. So that’s really what I’ve picked up from a lot of these ancient traditions. And to me, there’s just so much wisdom that we still have so much to learn from these people that have been doing this for thousands of years, to go along with some of the modern science that we’re learning.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. Well, what I love too, is you’ve studied so many different things, but take away the label or take away even the techniques. The core of what they all believe in for health and healing is the same.
Jason Prall
Right.
Tom McCarthy
That when the blockages of energy are gone, the body heals, the body flows, there’s health in the mind and body, which is really, really cool. You know, we live in a society where growing up, you and I learned, you know, you were sick, you go to the doctor. What’s the doctors see you as? And they’re well-meaning, they just have been educated that were science projects, right. And so, you know, you tinker with this and you tinker with that and you give this medication and you cut this out, and the populations you’re discovering, you know, they, you know, oh, poor them, they don’t have the advantage of having all this modern technology. Now, you know, in an injury or things like that, you know, obviously it can be helpful, but chronic diseases.
Jason Prall
That’s right.
Tom McCarthy
A lot of, one of our guests was a good, a medical doctor friend of mine, Dr. Chang Ron. He said, I can’t remember the number, but it’s tens of thousands of people die every day from prescription medicine, from something their doctor that’s trying to help them gave them, it killed them.
Jason Prall
Depending on the year, iatrogenic death, which is basically medical death, and this is accidental, but known medical death, is like the number two or three killer. So it’s just behind heart disease.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
It’s way ahead of cancer. So, again, this isn’t to demonize the medical system, but it is to recognize that there is risk there, too, right.
Tom McCarthy
Sure.
Jason Prall
So, this idea that the medical system is there without risk and it’s just doing nothing but good things and saving us, is not true. There is risk, and the more we can keep ourselves out of that need for medical assistance, the better, right. Because what you’re stating I think is just that. If I’m in a medical emergency, if I am in a car accident, whatever.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
Yeah. I thank God we’ve got the medicine that we have.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
And especially because it can, even some of the medications and the drugs can ease our suffering.
Tom McCarthy
Yes.
Jason Prall
Yeah, sign me up for that, right. And we can recover from that, but so, I’m not all just pure, natural, only herbs and that’s the way to go. There is a balance to be had. But what I’m trying to do is prevent myself from needing that medical stuff as much as I can, and doing this sort of acupuncture and herbal remedies and the, even the sort of modern sort of biohacking in a sense can be really, really beneficial in that way. But the ultimate recipe for health and longevity and happiness is alignment. It’s alignment with the way that your body functions, the way that the natural rhythms of the day and the seasons. And so, Ayurveda provides fantastic prescription for that or framework for that. Chinese medicine, again, fantastic framework. So, this is why I think it’s valuable for us to sort of pull from these other traditions because they have great frameworks that we can learn to incorporate with our sort of Western way of approaching this.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah, and I love your inclusiveness, right. Everything at some level can help.
Jason Prall
Yes.
Tom McCarthy
Biohacking, you said biohacking, I’ve always been a little bit concerned with because I didn’t feel like it was addressing, like you said, the root cause. It’s like, you know, hacking in and fixing this little aspect or altering, you know, this, and, but there are some great little biohacks for different things like maybe sleep or things like that.
Jason Prall
Well, yeah. And I’ll give you a great in this instance, right. So a bio hack that I would use is to use orange light bulbs in my house at night, or to wear the blue blocker glasses.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
Now, to your point, I’m not solving the real problem, which is that there’s artificial light on at night, which is not in alignment with the natural rhythms and the harmony that my body’s essentially, wisdoms are accustomed to.
Tom McCarthy
Sure.
Jason Prall
So I can make that choice. I can acknowledge that and say, it’s not in alignment, it’s not in harmony, so I’m gonna just do a little hack here to bring it a little bit more in alignment, knowing that I’m not perfecting this and I’m not doing what my ancestors did 500 years ago. But this is the sacrifice I’m willing to make because I got work to do, because I want to help people, because this is the life that I live, right. So there’s these little hacks that I think as long as we’re acknowledging the reality of it, then it’s a nice sort of a happy medium.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. And what I’ve found though, for myself, is that I’ve done all the hacks and now I’m just even more committed to going down to the root cause. Like–
Jason Prall
Exactly.
Tom McCarthy
If I’m not sleeping well at night, I can do the orange lights. I can, you know, take a, not a sleeping pill, but, you know, melatonin or whatever.
Jason Prall
Yep.
Tom McCarthy
But what’s the real issue? I don’t know how to calm my mind. So if I fix that, if I’m able to like, whenever I want to just calm my mind, which meditators and practitioners of, you know, Qigong or Tai Chi or yoga, like my wife, they can do that. My wife can fall asleep in a minute. And so I go, hey, that’s what I have to do.
Jason Prall
Right. That’s your work.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. And that’s inside, so.
Jason Prall
Absolutely. No, I totally agree. And there’s a lot there too, that you can, and I think even more, what you’re pointing to is really, really key in terms of longevity, which is that you’re actually introspective in this regard. You’re not saying I can’t sleep so let me look for an external solution. You’re actually asking the right questions. What is it that is really causing me to not fall asleep easily and quickly? Oh, it’s this thing here, right. And so, let me address that. So, simply going back to the mind of a child, right, the beginner’s mind as we might say in Buddhism is a really, really cool way to tackle life even as we get older, is we kind of drop this hardened reality that we’ve created for ourselves and we ask sort of children, child-like questions. We start from the beginner’s mind. What’s really going on here? What’s really the problem? Why am I thinking in this way? Why is this pattern like this? What’s happening here? And in doing, just in doing that, even if you don’t get to the answer right away, you’re on the right track.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. You are just a wealth of wisdom. It’s been so awesome having you on, Jason. And I know we’ve just literally scratched the surface. Hey, what would be the top, you’ve already given us some great ideas and maybe it’s just taking those back and bringing them up at the end so people that heard them in the beginning get it reinforced, but give us your top three tips or top three things to focus on to live a healthier, more vibrant, longer, fulfilling life.
Jason Prall
Get moving. So–
Tom McCarthy
Get moving.
Jason Prall
Just move more. Like, that, it’s so critical and it’s sort of cliche in our modern world, but that’s the truth. Move as much as you can. And it doesn’t have to be exercise in a formal way. In fact, the best way to move is to play. So play and move, that’s fantastic. I would say, simplify your life. So simplify your schedule, your routines, your clothes closet, your refrigerator and your pantries, your chemicals and the cleaners. Simplify all the things that you can. And what I mean by that is don’t, you don’t have to learn how to make your own cleaners because that may add more complexity to your day, more stress, right. So I truly mean figure out ways, almost like the Tim Ferriss approach, where four-hour work week. How can I free up as much time as I can?
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
Free up as much of my mind as I can. And that is a really, really important thing in our society. So, simplify and free up as much time, because if, what we’re really talking about here is time, right. So if you’re so overwhelmed with time, then what are we talking about? You’re just gonna be overwhelmed for 100 years. Like, that doesn’t make sense, right.
Tom McCarthy
That sounds like a lot of fun, yeah.
Jason Prall
Yeah, so simplify. I think simplify is a huge one. And then I think that the third one I would say is, again, it goes back to that community, but really the connection and support. So are you, do you feel, just sitting here right now today, do you feel support around you? Do you feel connection? And if the answer is generally no, unless you’re in some specific group, then there’s something there for you to look at. So, and–
Tom McCarthy
Inside of you.
Jason Prall
Inside of you. And I will say this, because I’m not there yet. I’m not in a position where I’m constantly in the, feeling connection and support. Like, throughout my day. It’s not stabilized in my system fully.
Tom McCarthy
Right.
Jason Prall
So that’s something that I’m looking at. There’s something there in my childhood, in my experiences, in my karma, perhaps, that can be worked. And again, energy healing and various practitioners that can do this type of thing, that use awareness, that have all these tools to kind of resolve traumas and what have you, there’s something stuck in your system. Because that’s our true state is to feel connected, to feel support, to feel totally aligned, and that’s where, that’s our true nature.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
So, there’s something getting in the way, right. And so, for me, that’s what I’m constantly looking at. How do I feel more support more often? How do I deepen and broaden that level of feeling support and feeling connected? And so, that’s a really, really important one to focus on. So, if nothing else, just ask yourself and start inquiring, how do I feel? How do I really feel? Do I feel like I’m supported by the universe, by God, by people?
Tom McCarthy
Right, right.
Jason Prall
By my body.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah.
Jason Prall
And if the answer is, eh, not really, or kind of, or sometimes, then there’s deeper ways to get into that. And so I think that’s a really, really good place to start.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. I love it. When you’ve got another very strong reason to have longevity and health for a long time, and that’s your little one-year-old, and I don’t know if there’s more on the way, but, you know, I know you’re gonna stay healthy and vibrant. It has been so amazing having you on. Thank you so much for blessing us with your presence here. And we will be getting the word out to everybody in our summit to know about yours. And again, just tell us quickly the name and how they can register, or we’ll be sending things out to them, but just when will that be? It’ll be in October and the name of the summit again is?
Jason Prall
Yep, yep. It’s Awaken the Healer Within, and it’ll be October 18th is the kickoff date, and it’ll be free to attend just like this summit. So yeah, we’ll give you guys a link so that you can just drop that into your people and I hope everybody can join us. Because it’s, we’ve got some amazing speakers, yourself included, so I’m excited.
Tom McCarthy
Yeah. Thank you, Jason. Thank you again. And I can’t wait. We live in the same town pretty much, or you’re like a town away, so I’m looking forward to meeting you in person and meeting your family, but what a beautiful soul you are. Thank you so much for being on our summit. We really do appreciate you.
Jason Prall
Likewise. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
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