Full Transcript Introduction to infertility and the guest 0:00 What I would say for, you know, if you're listening to this and you are struggling with infertility or recurrent pregnancy loss, 0:05 the first thing I'd say is it's not your fault. 0:09 Every single one of us who has a story is like, is because I went to the taco truck on Tuesday? 0:15 Is it because i spent 16 hours in the OR operating? 0:19 We all connect these dots in our mind and I will tell you, infertilty is a disease. 0:23 It affects one in four female physicians, one and three female surgeons. 0:27 I promise you it is not Welcome to the Doctors Making a Difference podcast, where we help physicians to be empowered with the tools they need to successful 0:41 in medicine, in finance, and in life. 0:44 Join us as we highlight doctors and other professionals around the world who are making a difference. 0:55 So today I am delighted to welcome Dr. 0:58 Erica Bove. 0:59 Dr Bowe, if she's giving me permission to call her Erica, is double board certified as an OB-GYN and also a reproductive endocrinologist. 1:07 Super excited to have Dr Bove. 1:09 Erika here with us, want to hear what she has to say. 1:11 She has quite a journey. 1:12 she'll talk about her personal experience with reproductive and endrochronology, and then also all the resources and tools that she is given to others, 1:21 but particularly to physicians. 1:23 Again, most of our audience are physicians listening to this. 1:25 So if you're a physician listening, you may find this very interesting and very helpful for your own life. 1:30 Erica, do you mind introducing yourself to our audience? 1:34 Not at all. 1:34 Thanks, Peter. 1:35 It's so wonderful to be here. 1:36 So I'm Erica Bove. 1:38 I am, like you said, a reproductive endocrinologist. 1:41 And faculty at the University of Vermont. 1:42 Am also the program director there. 1:44 A couple years ago, I launched a coaching program for mostly female physicians with infertility. 1:51 My own journey is that I went to med school to become a psychiatrist. 1:54 Right? 1:54 I was really motivated to cure the world of eating disorders, as all of us young idealists are very motivated, to save the But once I got into psychiatry 2:03 and also started doing my other rotations, it really became clear that I loved women's health. 2:08 And around the same time, I actually was like understanding my own body and sort of fertility potential. 2:14 and I was actually told that i would be infertile, really interesting. 2:17 So as i was navigating that and trying to figure that out, i met my former spouse who were still We co-parent well together. 2:24 He's family medicine. 2:25 And as we were starting to build our family, these questions about fertility and miscarriages and everything, it's a personal journey as well as a professional one. 2:34 So I changed course in my third year of medical school. 2:38 I decided to apply to OB-GYN residency programs. 2:42 Once I was sort of in it, I think REI is like the coolest field in the world. 2:47 You get to help people build their families and work with your hands and all of that. 2:50 And as I was a new attending though, I very disillusioned by my inability to connect with my patients in the clinic. 2:59 I meeting with these people, trying to help them understand their diagnosis, their fertility treatment options, with the patients who I cared about dearly.
Erica Boveu2019s path into reproductive endocrinology 3:09 we were not able to have a conversation. 3:11 The anxiety was so profound, the analysis paralysis, these educated, strong, beautiful patients in front of me were now assimilating what I had to say. 3:21 And so that's when I really started to dig deep and say, like, okay, I went into this field to help people. 3:27 I feel like I'm marginally helping people, how can I do better? 3:30 And that is when understood, because I was accessing coaching in my own life, that the coaching tools I thought were what my patients needed. 3:38 I started experimenting, if you will, in the clinic and really started to see amazing results. 3:42 So then I formed my practice. 3:44 Wow. 3:44 Well, that's like in a very encapsulated little nutshell, a long complicated journey. 3:49 So maybe just maybe step back a minute because a lot of the people listening to this are going to be interns, residents or medical students or people that 3:58 are aspiring to that field. 3:59 What was that like? 4:00 You got told that at a young age, right? 4:02 In the middle of that, like. 4:03 Hey, you may experience infertility. 4:05 You may have a hard time that you might require reproductive technology. 4:08 And then you were able to kind of launch that into your own career. 4:11 But you're going to walk us through that a little bit, if you are willing. 4:13 What was that like? 4:15 Yeah, I mean, there's almost this dichotomy. 4:19 As we are training to become physicians, our humanity is almost beaten out of us. 4:25 I don't know how else to say it. 4:25 It's like there are doctors and then there're humans, right? 4:29 And to have a human experience, to even have basic human needs like the need to eat, the needs to pee, they need sleep, and I would argue fertility as 4:38 a basic right that needs reproduce. 4:41 Like all those things, they kind of get pushed to the periphery because we are these like saviors who are trying to heal all the people. 4:48 And I think that what I wish I had known then was that it's okay to be human. 4:53 It's even preferable to human to, be as integrated as possible while going through these experiences. 5:00 I have come away since I was a medical student. 5:04 Our culture is shifting. 5:06 We are integrating sustainability and medicine But I think what I would tell my younger self is like, it's okay to be a patient. 5:14 It's OK to to take your time. 5:19 I was in such a rush to find a partner because they told me I'm going to have infertility. 5:25 So my on-ramp to marriage was very fast. 5:30 And I have two gorgeous children. 5:32 I would never trade them for anything in the entire world. 5:35 But I also tell my own children, I'm like, take your time. 5:42 We need to understand ourselves before we make these big life decisions. 5:45 And if fertility is in that kind of like view of what you're thinking about, There are so many options, there are many people who want to help. 5:54 Maybe it's freezing eggs, maybe it is really getting to know yourselves and working with somebody and going deeper into what the factors are. 6:02 It is so funny, Dr. 6:03 Crane, because I practice right now in the same room. 6:08 These are my exam rooms. 6:09 I go into that room routinely. 6:11 to counsel patients myself, the same room where I was told I'd have infertility. 6:15 Really? 6:15 Oh yeah, because I am a faculty where went to medical school. 6:19 I did my tour around the world in between, but I landed back where i went in medical, which I'm from Vermont originally, 6:25 and so it's such an honor to serve the people of Vermont, right? 6:30 But it's almost like it comes full circle. 6:31 And so in my life now, I always, and to my trainees, say, okay, how can we keep our humanity? 6:39 How can, not oversharing, but sharing with patients so that it is not like doctor-patient. 6:45 We have this empathy where we know that we can share these human experiences together. 6:49 I tell people I've had miscarriages. 6:52 You know, about my fertility journey. 6:57 Obviously, the moment has to be right and we use our spidey senses, our empathy senses to figure that out, but I think that creates a richer encounter 7:06 and giving bad news is one of those things I thing we learn over time and just imagining what it's like to on the receiving end of that, 7:13 I thinks it makes us better physicians. 7:15 Oh, yeah. 7:16 I've spoken extensively on the podcast about my experience as a patient, and it makes all the difference. 7:23 When I had a big tumor and had to have it removed, the surgeon who did it for me shared with me her own experience with having a tumor removed. 7:31 For whatever reason, at that moment, that was life-changing. 7:34 Okay, this person knows exactly what I'm dealing with. 7:37 And it just inspired more empathy, more trust. 7:41 Erica, man, such a personal experience. 7:43 You were able to understand the difference between the clinical side of it and the human side and try to find a way to mesh those two things. 7:51 That's pretty important. 7:53 If we don't do that, people feel like you're just kind of like the Dr. 7:56 Bot 2000. And that's how I start feeling if you start doing too many things at once, you never feel you can really engage and have a normal human conversation. 8:05 You're dispensing information. 8:07 But how much more meaningful is that when you have like a deep-rooted connection with a person. 8:13 How have you maintained that and not become bitter and frustrated like so many people sometimes do over the course of their career? 8:19 Oh, yeah. 8:20 Well, that's such a great question. 8:21 So I adapted my residency, I got through my fellowship, and then I started my new attending job with my former spouse and I start it and we thought we 8:28 had arrived. 8:29 We had the house and by that point we have two children and this sort of crash of like, oh my goodness. 8:35 There's no way forward, but to get divorced, even though we tried very hard, it was just clear that there was no forward. 8:40 And so that was kind of very central to me really reevaluating everything. 8:46 I will tell you, I remember I used to be just multitasking constantly. 8:51 In the evenings answering my work email and trying to do all the things to everybody and be on all of the committees and everything, 8:58 I remember once I was getting ready for a meeting at like 6 a.m.
Balancing medicine, family, and authenticity 9:01 and my two-year-old is like, he said to me, asked me where I'm going and I said, oh, a meet and he says, another meeting mommy. 9:08 Like even my 2- year- old knew that I like over committed. 9:11 And so I think as I have, because divorce was such a life-altering event and because I did need to really look at every single thing, 9:20 I am much more likely to be very choosy about what I say yes to. 9:24 My yes has to a full-body yes. 9:27 I'm going to do this if I have capacity and it is in line with something I've passion about, but if it's something else, 9:34 I really have to think hard and be like, okay, is this during my work hours? 9:38 Is it not? 9:39 How is it going have an effect on the rest of my life? 9:42 primarily my relationship with my children, which is my number one priority at this moment in time. 9:47 And so as I think about how I navigated that time, really like sort of coming out of, coming through the divorce I would say and reawakening, 9:56 part of it was like, how am I with patients? 10:00 And I started to realize like I'm kind of quirky, I am endearing. 10:03 I love my patients. 10:06 But as was trying to practice medicine in this very like regimented rubric way, That was also impeding my ability to connect with my patients. 10:14 So if the time is right and my patient gives me permission, I will give them a hug, right? 10:19 After an embryo transfer, i do all my like weird juju to like help the embryos stick and patients love it. 10:25 And like, and laugh with patients, cry with patience. 10:28 I've really like I'm my quirky self. 10:31 It's, it's like. 10:32 i don't have to be like okay, how am I gonna be quirky today? 10:34 But I think the more that I. 10:37 embrace my own authenticity, my uniqueness as a person and share that with my patients, the deeper those connections are. 10:44 And my patience, they keep in touch with me. 10:46 Like I have a patient from when I was a fellow and her twins are over 10 years old. 10:51 Then every single birthday she reaches out to thank me and shared pictures. 10:56 This is just amazing. 10:57 But I think it's because I needed to fully embrace who I am in order to keep this work sustainable. 11:04 So that's one thing. 11:06 I also think what I have learned in terms of being able to balance having young children and clinical medicine is for me, 11:13 I can really only do it best in limited doses. 11:16 So I had a part-time position right now. 11:19 Will that change in the future? 11:20 I'm not sure. 11:21 But finding coaching, creating my coaching practice, having that be my creative outlet, which the hours are very controllable, 11:29 especially as I navigated a parenting schedule where I didn't have my children half the time. 11:34 That has been very impactful to be like, I am still a whole physician. 11:38 I have a meaningful impact in the world. 11:40 And it doesn't have to look like what I was shown. 11:43 It doesn' have look to like I taught the whole human physician is. 11:48 Well, and it's interesting, like you hit on two points that I think are really interesting just to reflect on. 11:52 Number one, I don't know very many physicians who are working part-time or have more control of their hours who were burned out. 12:01 Maybe they were, but in the reality of it, if someone says, and I can fit the more important parts of my life in. 12:10 Most of those folks I've talked to are not burned out. 12:12 So that's really important if you can manage your time. 12:15 And then the second thing I thought was interesting you just talked about was this kind of this authentic authenticity as you talk about Patients with 12:23 patients interact with them with your whole self. 12:25 You use the word quirky. 12:26 I don't think you're quirky, but just your normal authentic self, I think in 2025, that's what people are looking for. 12:33 Maybe there was a time in the past where people wanted the physician to show up in a white coat and be at a distance, and I'm going to this expert authority. 12:41 But in information age in 2025, our patients seek authenticity. 12:46 This is a real person I am talking to. 12:48 It's just an interesting metamorphosis. 12:50 You watch old movies from way back and the doctors were like on almost like this pedestal in a different socioeconomic class. 12:57 And you didn't talk to, you never addressed anybody by their first name and you don't know where they lived or anything like that. 13:02 and, and now it's much more of an authentic connection. 13:06 That's a lot of times what people are seeking. 13:07 So both of those things, I think play into what you just like the original question you're answering is how do you avoid burnout? 13:13 Be your authentic self and control your time. 13:16 Those are time-honored principles for sure. 13:19 And can I add something to that? 13:20 Yes. 13:21 Yeah, so I think we have these moments in my life that I've really been these watershed moments and I was working full-time. 13:27 I Was divorced we were maybe like two to three years into this new normal and my ten-year-old looked at me at the time and he said Mommy, 13:36 where are you? 13:38 And I had hustled all day in the clinic. 13:40 I was up treating my nurses to handle as much of the patient questions as possible. 13:44 Like, I, had the nanny, walked home, like hot dinner on the table. 13:49 And my, Like I said, my 10 year old said mommy, where are you? 13:51 And, And he said he looked at me, kids, they tell the truth, right? 13:56 He said mom, you're here, but you are not here. 13:59 And that was when I was doing everything I could to not check my work email at home, to contain the work. 14:06 And I realized I wasn't out of alignment. 14:08 So I think that is the other thing that we really have to pay attention to. 14:11 It's a daily practice, right? 14:13 It is not even like, oh, I'm out-of-alignment. 14:14 I am going to change my job. 14:16 We have work on ourselves and it is a practice of daily discipline. 14:20 But I had to really face my own truth in that moment and say, you know what? 14:26 nothing is more important to me than my relationship with my children. 14:28 And this clinical situation that I'm in right now, despite my best efforts, is not supporting my highest good, right, in this life. 14:39 So what can I do? 14:40 And the answer was actually that i needed to leave that job and obviously find a place that really did value me and honored my parenting schedule. 14:49 I feel very lucky right Basically, base our call schedule largely around my parenting schedule, which is so kind, but I think it's a win-win for everybody. 14:59 If we are out of alignment, I feel like that's when the burnout happens because we're forcing it. 15:07 It's not happening in a way that is sustainable. 15:11 But when those moments happen, we really do have to do like a soul searching like I did. 15:15 And it was like, how can I? 15:17 And I will tell you, my brain offered me so many reasons why I couldn't leave that job. 15:21 I was, like oh, but I'm geographically tied here because of my divorce decree. 15:28 I was in coaching school at the time and this person in my small group from Australia offered me a job, like a virtual job working part-time supporting 15:37 their people in Australia. 15:38 And that was like the first crack in the system. 15:41 I said, well, she even sent me contract. 15:45 Yeah, yeah. 15:46 And I was like, okay, 15-hour time difference, how can I? 15:48 They're going to pay me well to do this. 15:50 I started to think, maybe I'm not limited to Albany, New York. 15:54 Maybe there are other options that are virtual or thinking outside the box. 16:00 That's when I start to say, How can do I this in a way that is life-giving to my family where I have gas in the tank at the end of every day? 16:07 Which for me, people say how do you define alignment? 16:10 How do know what that feels like in your body? 16:13 If we use somebody else's metric, that's not necessarily gonna work for us. 16:16 For me, it's working in a day and then feeling like I can be fully present with my children. 16:22 And it was so interesting because once I found that, I reached out to, a lot of it with intuition and figuring, praying and all those things. 16:29 But once found it, was traveling three hours away from my house when I didn't have my childen and really saying like, if I'm going to be here, 16:37 need to only be available when don't my have children and they're like great, we'll make it happen. 16:42 When that happened, my son, it was like maybe 18 months later, he looked at me and he was, like, gosh, I get teary thinking about us. 16:49 He goes, mom, you're back. 16:52 Oh, that's awesome. 16:53 You're bad. 16:54 And like we, uh, sit on the floor and I play games with them. 16:57 I played shoots and ladders with my sun yesterday. 17:00 We are going to a movie tonight because I promised them all the while. 17:03 Here I am today recording this amazing podcast with you. 17:12 nearly there, right? 17:13 There's still things I need to work on, but I feel much more in line with my priorities and my values. 17:18 And I think that when we can line up those vectors, it's almost like protection against burnout because we have these rich, 17:26 meaningful lives doing what we're supposed to do. 17:28 Well, another component is you're an OB-GYN when you go through residency for obstetrics in particular. 17:34 I mean, there's just babies come when they want. 17:37 So I deliver babies as part of my job and they just come whenever they. 17:42 And it's a valuable, meaningful part. 17:45 But it is hard to be like, oh yeah, I'll commit to being there at that time. 17:48 Then I have some excellent practice partners who will pick up the slack if I'm gone, et cetera. 17:53 You're on the hook a lot. 17:55 That's nice that you've been able to find that. 17:57 Yeah, absolutely. 17:58 And I think it's different, like in a rural setting it is different.
Finding alignment and avoiding burnout 18:01 My father was a real urologist and I look at what he's done for his whole career and i'm just like amazed at What he has done and then I also realized 18:10 like that shall not compare, right? 18:11 It's like the 11th Amendment and everyone finds their way. 18:14 I've found OBGYNs who work at hospitals. 18:16 Now we have OB-Gyn hospitalists and laborists who take care of the labor floor and yes, yes we lose some continuity of care, 18:24 although I really think more and more, and this is why you have this podcast, right, is we have to be looking at sustainability in medicine and dropout 18:32 rates are so high because it is such a hard system to in and the more we can find our own way and find out communities of support, 18:39 I think the better, the longer we'll be able to work in a meaningful way, in in healthy way where it doesn't cost us truly our lives. 18:48 Right. 18:48 And that's just it. 18:49 Like, the dropout rate's high. 18:50 The suicide rate is unacceptably high It's unacceptable. 18:53 There's so many things that people get into the nuts and bolts of practice and they're like, wow, this is not what I thought. 18:59 So you have to be able to flexible to pivot and shift and change and find a way to do just exactly what you've done. 19:05 It is inspiring to hear this. 19:09 I think somebody listening to this will say, I want to like Erica. 19:13 And because you found a way to find something you're really good at, something that you enjoy, you can engage with your patients. 19:19 And not only that, not, only professionally, but you, can spend time with, your kids and do those things that are of greatest value in your life. 19:27 So pretty awesome. 19:28 Also my relations with my children. 19:29 I mean, that is my why for my patients because I know. 19:33 how deeply grateful I am to be a mom myself and how much it took and everything to really fight for it. 19:39 And that's what I want to create in my people. 19:41 I wanted to give them that same meaningful experience and so it's all connected, right? 19:46 It is connected but I think we get so disconnected in medicine. 19:49 And like I said in the beginning, I think that reintegration, which takes a lot of, it does take reflection. 19:54 It takes community. 19:55 it takes facing our growth edges and with compassion and grace. 19:59 But I, think when we can do that, that's really when, we start to really thrive. 20:04 And people say, oh, thriving in medicine isn't possible. 20:07 I really think it is. 20:08 We just have to think outside the box and we have, to be true to ourselves. 20:10 Well, and you gave yourself permission to change. 20:13 That was the, you described that when your colleague from Australia offered you the job. 20:17 And you could tell that the wheels were turning. 20:19 You gave your permission, some permission and say, I don't have to think geographically. 20:23 I can think more globally. 20:24 Hi, can do all this stuff. 20:25 Yeah. 20:25 and then you've turned it into this, this reproductive endocrinology practice. 20:29 Did you always have a board certification in reproductive, endochronology or did that come later on? 20:34 No, I did. 20:35 I went straight through from OB-GYN residency to REI fellowship. 20:39 But then it was, then I got out, took an academic job where I done my fellowship and then passed my boards and went into private practice. 20:45 Then I realized that was the job that wasn't the right fit for me and I realize I didn't miss teaching. 20:52 One thing I would also say to younger or maybe younger and training people is like, do that thing when you're in the flow, 21:00 right? 21:00 Like, look at those. 21:02 That's actually why I shifted from psychiatry to OB-GYN is because when I was in psychiaty, like an eight hour day felt so long, 21:10 nothing against psychiatrists. 21:12 I love psychiatry, but for me, I talk fast, and I loved working with my hands. 21:16 It just wasn't the right pace for my. 21:18 When I found OBGYN, it felt like I was in the flow. 21:22 So when you feel like you're in flow, that's just like this beautiful sweet spot. 21:28 If you can find those things, like, i'm a ninja. 21:31 i love doing hard REI procedures. 21:34 Getting into a cervix that is challenging, I love putting an embryo at the right spot. 21:38 I'm always in the two-week wait for my patients. 21:40 Even in a couple of days I find out a few of my patient's that I did transfers on a week and a half ago are going to be pregnant. 21:46 All those things, those are the things that bring me joy. 21:48 And so I think when you pay attention to when your in flow, that's a good indicator of how it is a wonderful way to spend your time. 21:58 Well, yeah, and you found something you love doing. 22:00 I mean, they say if you find what you loved, then you'll never work a day in your life. 22:04 You just have to find, in medicine, you just to have find the hours that work so it's not so imbalanced. 22:09 That's exactly it. 22:10 So I want to hear a little bit about what your journey is now because you work with lots of physicians. 22:19 And just to kind of lay it out from what I understand, kind reading through your information, a lot of people find themselves delaying families because 22:27 medical school takes a long time and you're training. 22:30 I started my first real attending job when I was 32 years old and the reproductive potential changes and the challenges change each decade. 22:40 My grandma used to say, you get a different body every decade, not a better body, just a difference body. 22:44 But from a reproductive standpoint, that's also true. 22:49 And so you have part of your job is to coach, coach and also help physicians who are struggling with that aspect of it. 22:56 So I want to hear a little bit more about what you do and how does that help folks? 23:01 Sure. 23:02 So let's see, so with the coaching, what I found in my clinical practice was that there were some people for whom everything was lining up, 23:10 but the treatments were working. 23:11 Like if I see somebody and I say diagnose them with PCOS and give them letrasol and they're pregnant within two or three months, 23:17 fantastic. 23:18 That is like very satisfying. 23:20 It's a very, even though I'm sure those people wanted to be pregnant like a year ago, like it's very like problem solution. 23:26 You're a pregnant, you have a good heartbeat. 23:31 But what I will tell you is there is a subset of patients in my practice where their journeys are years long, right? 23:37 And it's like, okay, what is going on to make it so that like you know the diagnosis, you the treatments, know statistics, 23:45 there are people for whom it is not working when on paper you would expect it to work, And that became my interest. 23:52 And so clinically and sort of like emotionally, how can I help these people? 23:55 Because it also seemed that I'm a very empathetic person. 23:59 Like there were like these energetic blocks that were preventing people from believing it was possible for this to happen for them. 24:07 But I started to just wonder if the two are connected. 24:08 I'm like, I do believe in mind-body medicine. 24:11 And I've experienced a lot of healing myself in ways that seem to kind of defy Western medicine and odds and things like that. 24:19 So what if I could tap into that energy and try and release those blocks? 24:23 So what I decided to do was form a fertility coaching practice for mostly for female physicians. 24:28 I am open to other people, but there's something about me helping doctors be a patient that I think resonates with people. 24:35 And these are doctors for whom these conventional treatments are not working and they're starting to be threatened with either remaining childless or not 24:43 building their families, which is terrible because Oh, I was just so passionate about this. 24:47 These are the people who are on the front lines of medicine every single day, in the ERs, and the ORs in, the family medicine, 24:53 primary care clinics, like the pediatricians, that OB-GYNs. 24:56 Like these are people have dedicated their own lives to serving in medicine and medicine in a science are not working for them.
Coaching physicians through infertility 25:03 Just think about that paradox for a second. 25:05 It's just like so frustrating. 25:07 And so what I decided to do was figure out kind of scientifically, how can I help these people? 25:13 How can bridge them to a successful outcome? 25:16 Help in every single person who comes to me for additional support, which again is outside of my academic practice. 25:22 This is people who have their fertility specialist and they're like treatments aren't working. 25:27 My mindset is horrible. 25:29 I can't even see that this is going to work. 25:31 Don't know why I'm doing this anymore. 25:34 Those are my people for the coaching practice, I'm so isolated. 25:37 All I can think about is fertility and it's ruining my life. 25:41 So these people come to me and we start to work together. 25:44 I start the calm the nervous system because again, very kind of similar to what I saw as a new attending, like when the Nervous System is activated, 25:52 we can't even assimilate information. 25:54 We can tap into our intuition. 25:56 Our bodies just don't work the same way, right? 25:58 Like our GI system is disrupted, our brain chemistry is disruptive. 26:02 The gynecological system as disrupted as well, uterine receptivity, all those things. 26:06 And so, first thing is we calm the nervous system, we identify the values and the priorities, because there's no two journeys that are the same. 26:14 Everybody has a unique journey. 26:16 So we identified those things, and then we start looking for what I call authentic hope, which is hope grounded in science. 26:23 our brains are trained to look at what is not working. 26:26 Like, well, I've had three embryo transfers and nothing is taken so far, so it's probably not ever gonna work. 26:31 And that's where we interrupt that pattern and say, like, that is actually not true. 26:35 You are 32 years old, or you have five embryos in the freezer, whatever it is. 26:40 I love refocusing to being like this is why I believe in you, and this why, am gonna help you believe yourself. 26:47 So we identify the factors for authentic hope, and then we install confidence in the person's cycle, like their plan. 26:56 So many people, even physicians, don't know why their fertility specialist has prescribed a certain protocol or whatever else, 27:02 so I break it down. 27:03 I work with the fertility specialists. 27:05 This is scientifically how it makes sense. 27:08 Maybe ask your REI this question the next time you see them, maybe you add this adjunct or But we kind of realign that, like, 27:15 that the initial distrust, the initially hypervigilance, we tone all that down so that there's trust in the system, appropriately so, 27:24 and trust our own bodies to do the work of having a baby, right? 27:29 And I will tell you, it is working at unprecedented rates. 27:32 It's amazing. 27:33 We do one-on-one support. 27:35 The support groups are absolutely phenomenal in terms of people just inspiring each other and being a resource for each. 27:41 It's so beautiful. 27:43 Of course they have content because my people are all nerds like us and they like worksheets and homework and things like that to videos. 27:49 But it's this process of reconnecting the mind and the body, toning down the hypervigilance, trusting the process, and then bridging through to a successful outcome. 28:00 I love it. 28:00 It's awesome. 28:01 Like you speak the language, you, speak doctor and you speaks patient and they're kind of different languages and trying to, 28:07 it's, hard to learn how to be a patient when you've been a doctor. 28:09 like that, It really is. 28:11 I've tried to walk that path myself. 28:13 And it, a little bit hard, to know you want to approach the problem with humility. 28:17 You want approach to the problems with an open mind. 28:19 Yeah. 28:19 Your brain goes to like, what would we do it? 28:22 And like you say, You wanna just nerd out on the science and figure it out. 28:25 But there's a real human connection part of it that is really required. 28:29 So when you do your work with folks, it sounds like you're working a lot with reproductive endocrinology specialists across the nation and refer people there. 28:39 So what's the process? 28:40 Somebody listening to this, probably several people listening, are going to say this really resonates in my life or I have a colleague or a patient or 28:48 somebody that really needs this. 28:48 What's their first step? 28:50 Sure. 28:52 So if you are an individual who's currently suffering from infertility, on my website, there's a link to book a call or DM me. 28:59 I always love hearing from people. 29:01 What's your situation? 29:03 What tools are in the toolkit? 29:05 How can we help? 29:05 So I love for people to reach out individually. 29:08 There's also a couple of really well-run Facebook groups for female physicians with infertilty. 29:13 And again, I'm very cautious about social media because I think that sometimes it can take on a life of its own. 29:18 But there's a couple really well-run groups out there. 29:21 If you DM me, I will connect you. 29:24 Those groups have a lot of resources, a built-in support. 29:27 So that's the first thing is to contact me directly. 29:30 if you are a physician listening to this and you have people in your life or you patients yourself who are struggling, they actually have the referral form. 29:37 And so it's very quick to fill out. 29:39 Under two minutes is what people tell me. 29:41 Because what I found is if tell your patient, Oh, this person, Dr. 29:45 Bob, she's doing this coaching. 29:47 It's really interesting. 29:48 There's still so much stigma about mental health support. 29:51 Like over 90% of those people never reach me because I think because of shame and complex emotions and nothing is going to help me in those things. 29:58 And so I find it particularly helpful if the physician themselves or their team fills out this very brief referral form. 30:06 Then I can reach out to that person directly and start to sort out what might be helpful. 30:11 Yeah, how do people reach you? 30:12 What's your, do they go to your website or they got to LinkedIn or how should they contact you. 30:16 Absolutely. 30:16 So my website is the most comprehensive place. 30:19 I have a submission form if you want to reach out and just sort of ask me a question. 30:30 There's also a button there to book a call directly for me, like with me. 30:34 If you are a patient and you want my perspective, happy to do that as well. 30:37 Also on social media. 30:39 So everything is under love and science fertility. 30:42 Instagram, Facebook, people send me DMs all the time. 30:44 I love DM's. 30:47 in your world, people follow up with me and let me know how different things go and so those are generally the best places. 30:53 And so I can also, Dr. 30:55 Kidd, I could certainly give you my referral form if that would be helpful. 30:58 But I'm just, those were the ways to contact me because I know many people are suffering and I how many don't know that these resources are available. 31:07 I will tell you, even this week I had a client who saw a pregnancy test that was positive after 20 years. 31:14 Oh my goodness. 31:15 I'm just like, I am blown away. 31:16 And what did it take? 31:18 It took minds at work. 31:19 It take believing an IVF cycle was going to be successful to generate embryos. 31:24 it took getting the courage to finally have an abdominal myomectomy and going through that and healing and also a GLP-1. 31:31 No, but these are all things where it's like, okay, we listen to the story. 31:35 We see what's going on. 31:36 Oh, you've gained 40 pounds throughout the context of this journey. 31:40 Let's see if we can get some of that up as you're healing. 31:42 Like all these different things, like I said, there's no two journeys that are the same. 31:45 But when I see people, before we started talking, one of your questions is like what surprised you the most with this work? 31:53 Like how miracles happen. 31:55 Miracles happen because we take a thoughtful and curious approach. 31:58 We look at the mindset and we put all the pieces together. 32:00 So that person, she has normally rising beta ECG levels. 32:05 She's going to have an OB ultrasound soon. 32:06 I just know deep within myself that it's gonna work for her. 32:09 And I'm like, that is so amazing. 32:11 and she almost dropped out. 32:12 she's just like this is triggering. 32:16 All I want to do is to not have to think about fertility treatments. 32:20 You have good reason to stick with it. 32:22 Let's work on the triggers. 32:23 let's do these things." And she got through her transfer and it worked. 32:26 So like, that's one example. 32:27 I had another person for whom IVF treatments were not working. 32:31 She was very disillusioned at this point. 32:37 And she decided to take a month off from treatments because she was going to go to Europe with her family, with their parents and her siblings to honor 32:46 her ancestors. 32:47 And would you believe that she said to me, she's like, you know what, Erica, I think I'm going be okay without children. 32:54 I might pursue a gestational carrier, or I don't know, but I just need to understand that my life is going for us in this way." And I'm like, 33:03 great. 33:04 And then when you see that, and it's almost like you can predict it. 33:07 It's like prognostic factor. 33:08 I am like oh, her energy is different, it is going to work. 33:11 So then she and her husband tried outside of fertility treatments that one month that she took off after a year and a half of Fertility Treatments. 33:19 Would you believe that they conceived that month and now she's almost to her second trimester. 33:24 I mean, it's just like, these are the stories that are just, like these, are people who thought they were done. 33:29 They thought there was no chance. 33:30 they thought that they had this dream, but it wasn't going to happen. 33:32 And again, there are, people do decide that, they've done this long enough and that want to shift their priorities. 33:38 That's also a very important thing to talk about as well. 33:40 But I think for people for whom they think that it is not possible, I challenge that because maybe they just haven't found the right guide. 33:47 Maybe they haven' put all the pieces together. 33:51 sort of tips and tricks to get into their bodies and feel their feelings and really surrender. 33:57 I mean, it's surrender work. 33:59 We could talk forever about that too, but these are the things that are happening.
Success stories and final advice 34:02 And I think this is where Western medicine sometimes is inadequate. 34:06 This is why I'm so excited to bring this to people because it really is a healing journey and I've just been blown away even the last couple of weeks by 34:15 the miracles I have seen. 34:16 I like that you characterize those as miracles because 20 years of not being able to conceive and have a child, and you're able have to have child. 34:23 That's a miracle. 34:24 All the way through. 34:25 It's amazing. 34:26 And I'm thinking of so many patients I've worked with who've had that. 34:30 They just become so frustrated, so disillusioned. 34:34 Then you get to the place where you say, I have do something else. 34:37 I had one patient who asked for me to put a long-acting reversible contraception. 34:42 She's like, ''I just can't handle the mental load. 34:45 of wondering every month if I'm going to conceive it. 34:48 It was making her just emotionally go to a place where she couldn't really function. 34:52 That's all she would think about. 34:53 And so it creates this huge burden. 34:56 We all know folks who they decide to adopt or they decided some other thing and their mind just relaxes and then they're pregnant like the next month. 35:04 So there is something to this mind-body connection related to fertility. 35:08 I think that that's what you've discovered and it sounds like a lot of your work. 35:12 centers around not only the science but also the mindset and the coaching and this whole body approach and I love it. 35:18 It's awesome. 35:20 Thank you. 35:21 Well, do you have any final words or any parting wisdom you want to leave as we kind of wrap up our time? 35:26 So yes, okay, so I guess I have sort of like to the two different groups of people who might be listening and resonating. 35:31 So if you're a trainee and you are listening to this and haven't quite differentiated so to speak, what I would say is that a career in medicine doesn't 35:40 have to look the way that you've been shown. 35:43 There are so many beautiful ways to have a meaningful ways, ways of being an entrepreneur, thinking outside the box. 35:50 And so when we align our own unique gifts and sort of look at our vision for why we're here on this earth professionally, 35:58 right? 35:58 Like when they can align those things, that's when the magic happens. 36:01 So if you have a desire in your heart to do something that maybe is like a little different, just follow the breadcrumbs and see where it leads because 36:09 that is our creativity, That is a purpose, and that actually where we can have the greatest impact in the world. 36:13 That's my first sort of piece of advice, and also to bring in the humanity, because whenever we bring it in humanity everything just gets so much better. 36:20 Messier, but better, right? 36:22 And then what I would say for if you're listening to this and you are struggling with infertility or current pregnancy loss, 36:28 the first thing I will say is it's not your fault. 36:30 Every single one of us who has a story is like, is because I went to the taco truck on Tuesday? 36:36 Is it because spent 16 hours in OR operating? 36:39 Like we all connect these dots in our mind. 36:42 And I will tell you, infertility is a disease. 36:44 It affects one in four female physicians, one and three female surgeons. 36:48 I promise you it is not your fault. 36:49 So that is the first thing I would say. 36:51 The second thing that I'd say is, you are not alone. 36:54 We think we are, but we just haven't united. 37:01 like the more that isolation and shame, shame only exists in isolation. 37:06 So that's when the shame melts and dissipates, and that is when we can actually rise and be stronger together. 37:11 And then the third thing I would say is give yourself grace. 37:14 You are a busy physician, you are doing your best, these fertility treatments, which is at least a part-time job. 37:22 And so the more and more we can have compassion for ourselves and figure out how we might need to adjust our lives for this stage of life, 37:30 and maybe it's that you tone down the work or you go to per diem for a bit. 37:33 Maybe you do find a community of support and that's where you get your strength, right? 37:38 It's not about just keeping out some stuff. 37:40 Sometimes it is like, how do we fill our well? 37:42 How do Fill the tank to be able to continue to serve like give yourself grace. 37:46 Give yourself self-compassion And when you do that, I promise you things will get so much better. 37:52 So yes, those are my parting words for your listeners Thank you so I've loved it. 37:59 I will put your information in the show notes. 38:03 For some people, this will resonate so much, and I want you to be able to contact folks and help people. 38:08 And I appreciate what you're doing with the coaching and all the stuff that you are doing. 38:12 It makes a big difference for the entire physician community. 38:15 So thank you so, much. 38:19 Yes, 100%. And thank you for the work that you do. 38:21 I think that as I talk to trainees and people are getting burnt out and new attendings, and I always say go back to your personal statement, 38:29 go to why you're in this work in the first place, right? 38:32 Because I do think when we do feel like we're making a difference, somehow so many things get so much better. 38:38 Again, we need to look at control of our time and our hours and those sorts of things, but when can connect with our purpose, 38:44 That, I think, brings back the meeting. 38:46 And we're not just these warm bodies, but we are cool human beings having a human experience. 38:50 So thank you for bringing us together and reminding ourselves to find the meaning in what we do. 38:54 Awesome. 38:55 Yep. 38:55 That's why we call it Doctors Making a Difference. 38:57 Appreciate it so much. 38:58 Thank you. 39:01 Thanks for tuning in to the Doctors Making a Difference podcast. 39:04 And thank you for what you do to help your patients and your community. 39:07 Your work truly helps so many people. 39:09 We produce this content to have the tools you need to stay in medicine and to highlight the amazing work being done by physicians around the world. 39:16 Please note that while I am a physician and many of the guests on this program are also physicians or other professionals, 39:22 the discussions on the podcast do not represent my employer or any professional organizations to which I belong. 39:29 This podcast is for your information and entertainment only, and should not be taken as professional advice. 39:35 You should seek appropriate professional advise pertaining to your own situation. 39:39 Please check out more of our content on our website, DoctorsMakingADifference.com. 39:43 Also, please follow, like, or subscribe on your podcast player or YouTube channel, and give us a five-star rating. 39:50 It really helps to spread the message. 39:51 Finally, if you'd like to be a guest on the podcast, Or if would like nominate someone else to a be guest, Please visit the website or email admin at Doctors 40:01 Making A Difference dot com. 40:02 See you next time.
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